Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: In-Depth on Depth Forwards

Episode Date: November 7, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee dive deeper into Auston Matthews' status and debate how safe the Leafs should play his return. Then, they discuss David Kämpf still searching for his role, Max Domi's lack of scoring touch and the sustainability of Max Pacioretty's physical play. Later, The Athletic's Josh Kloke (32:52) shares the latest on Matthews, who comes out of the lineup for the returning Connor Dewar and Jani Hakanpää, and whether the power play can build off a successful night in Boston. Finally, Kyp & Bourne regroup with Sam for a Leafs-themed game of True or False.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's get her going. The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Four to six as always. First full hour hour all leaf edition so don't be texting my buddy jb and saying can you guys talk about something else besides the leafs in the first hour leafs all the time leaf show he's justin bourne i'm nick kiprios he's sammy mckee derrick brandeo and jake the snake schultz with you throughout the leaf edition hour and then the national hour as well where we'll welcome in hockey hall of famer class of 2024 jeremy ronick's gonna join

us that's pretty cool that's kind of a big deal. Really big deal. He's done some talking in his life. Yes. And has chatted. Yes. With and without teeth. I can imagine he's said some things on the ice that he won't be saying to us today. We are live on Sportsnet 590 The Fan, Sportsnet 360

and Sportsnet Plus. Off day for the Toronto Maple Leafs as they get ready for Hall of Fame weekend. Sammy, why are you looking at me like you swallowed a canary? Because you went to a concert last night. I did, yes. You went to see the boss, Bruce Springsteen.

Saw the boss. I'm surprised you've heard of him. I do. I like Bruce Springsteen. He's still doing it, too. Like, you sent a clip. He's still moving around up there. Three hours. Three hours.

And it's like clockwork with him, right? No warm-up band, no nothing. He comes on at 7.30. Early for a special. 7.30, no Bruce. 8 o'clock, no Bruce. 8.30, no Bruce. Delayed in New Jersey.

Lands in Hamilton. Oh. And gets the police escort right down the QEW. So what time did he come on? I want to say just before 9. Oh, man. And he went close to midnight. Yeah, that's too long. Didn't miss a beat.

We saw someone else's video and you're like six rows from the front. Wow. Did you see this video? Which one? Lindsey Dunn, who does some Raptors coverage. She's on some stuff at the station or whatever. I saw it like our friend

JR Manitad sent me. Your boy Kipper having a great time. It was just like a behind the stage video of Bruce Springsteen singing. And then you're just sitting there with just the biggest smile on your face. You look like you're having the best time ever. I'll show it to you. You look like you didn't even have a beer or anything in your hand. You're just like.

Just freely. No, nothing in his hand. Got a program. I was thinking a little bit of you working with the uh oiler vegas game last night i think it popped into my mind i hope you're enjoying work you know this year at the clark gillies foundation event so every year they have uh billy joel's band the rest of the band well some guys who played for him they have a billy joel cover band they call it called big shot and so they're really good the guy is, the rest of the band's legit.

So this year at the Gillies event, Billy shows up. Wow. So it's a small event. It's like, I don't know, a few hundred people are there, and Billy Joel goes up to play a couple songs. And I just got to say, it was amazing that he did it. It meant a lot. Billy's old.

Billy's old. Yes, I know. Like watching Bruce in that video. But he moves. He moves. Bruce is doing it. Up and down and around. Billy won't play his own songs. He sung a couple of karaoke tunes and everyone,

I mean, incredibly grateful that he did it. I've met Bruce on a couple occasions with the Rangers. Got some New York ties to two of you. He's very good friends with Susan Sarandon, who's an actress, who's very good friends. Yeah, well. Kipper, would you like me to pick up those names you've dropped? I an actress, who's very good friends. Yeah, well. Giver, would you like me to pick up those names you've dropped? I can pick those up for you.

No, no, no. I had a Bruce connection. I had a bit of a Bruce connection. And so I met him in the green room, and he tried on my Stanley Cup ring. Cool. And he's like, oh, that's really cool, you know? And I'm like like i tell people to this day like bruce springsteen wore that ring can i have your socks we're in that general

front row kind of thing where everybody's kind of freewheeling right in front of the stage and like like he kind of pointed at me last night last night no way and i'm like there's just no way in the world but then somebody's beside me says boss just looked at you and pointed he says you gotta talk about that on the show tomorrow i'm like buddy take a chill pill he's seen he's seen 10 million faces rolodex of people he was like that's a i know that one i mean that's the highlight of my life you look the same as you did 20 years ago though you really do like you don't look any different well thank you yeah this show was born to run boys oh there you go all right so where are we in terms of an off-day topic that uh starts off our leaf edition here. Is it Austin Matthews? Will we see him tomorrow night against Detroit?

Does he take another night off? If we were like a breaking news TV show, it'd be Austin in crisis. Are we concerned? Are there other people starting to get a little concerned here? Let's start with you, JB. There it is. Breaking Austin Matthews.

Uncertain to return on the weekend could this be the end that's really good you got me intrigued don't touch the channel there are uh yeah it's conversations right now obviously they've had some success when he hasn't played um i guess the most important question is how much do you think this injury has affected him? And if you think it's affected him some, how long should he sit out? When should they welcome him back or ask him to come back? Because he obviously can play, it's just a matter of how much rest should you allow him to get.

I've not heard the clips yet, so why don't we go to Craig Berube on Matthew's update, and we'll come back and answer those questions, JB. Yeah, he's doing okay. I mean, you know, it's still a day-to-day thing right now, and, you know, that's really the update I have for you. It's a day-to-day thing. That's it?

Day-to-day. The second one, will Matthews play this weekend? Berube, clip two. Well, that's to be determined still. You know, I really, it's hard for me to answer that question knowing what I know right now with him today and stuff. So, look, you know, I can't tell you what's going to happen tomorrow. I wish I could, but I can't.

Okay, for those of you that weren't sure whether it was going to be determined or not, at least we got clarification that it will be determined. At some point, a conclusion. Did anybody get anything else out of that? Listen, it means not playing this weekend. That's what I got out of it. I think you're probably right. If he was saying, first of all, he wasn't on the ice today.

So if he's not on the ice. He's not coming to warm up, morning skate warm up, and then jumping in. And if they thought he was even 50-50, they might say, he's feeling better, he's looking good. I would imagine that he would say, he's feeling better today. Game time decision tomorrow. He's feeling better. We'll see how he feels tomorrow.

It was, I can't even make a determination about how he's feeling right now. I don't know anything right now. I don't know anything. I'm going to throw my two cents in. Let me have it. And I'm not questioning at all if he's hurt or not. So let's not even begin to go there. Okay.

Okay? It's an interesting way to start this. Something's bothering him. If it was game one of the Stanley Cup playoffs or game six or seven, I think he's playing with whatever is bothering him. But I do believe that the Toronto Maple Leafs are a little overcompensating on him not playing. So if in fact he goes on some heater again

and starts pushing towards 50 goals or 60 goals, that will never happen again. of last season when the push was to keep driving these guys right to the end and the distraction of getting to 70 goals or 60 this year or maybe even 50 won't come into play. That's crazy talk, Kim. We don't care. That's crazy talk. What they're saying is, Austin, we don't care about the number of goals you score anymore.

What we care about is that you are at the height of your game. The team's feeling good. And it's all about the playoffs. It ain't about the number that you need to hit. If you want to do conspiracy theories, if you want to put on tinfoil hats. That is. If you want to put one onfoil hats that is if you want to put one on i'm here for it but if you want to put one on i'll say it's you know could be protecting him a little

bit from a pr standpoint you know from new captain struggles out of the gate offensively whatever there could be a little bit of like yeah we'll help him out just say it's an injury let's have a fresh start here whatever here's what i think is probably happening he's probably got a nagging injury they're waiting for it to get better. It's probably what's happening. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like, it's probably not as complicated as we're making it here. And it's not the wrist. Not the wrist. For sure. So, we think shoulder because there's not that many body parts. I'm telling you. That are upper body. It's not the wrist.

It's not the wrist. No. Okay. Okay. So, it's the elbow or the shoulder or the chest something's obliques something like that something's bothering him upper is waist is upper than lower that's where it starts the waist yes okay starts so this region here so um take it take two days off take the weekend off yeah i think there's a chance now that he may take the weekend off.

I think he's taking the weekend off. If you're going to let something heal up here and give it a little time, it doesn't make sense for it to be like a few days. Give him a week. And there's no number right now that you need to feel pressure to hit. That's the message. No, I think it helps. That's the message.

That's the number one thing that made me say what I just said is that we need to be abundantly clear that you're not coming back. How do we make this about the team and not your numbers to, to feel like you need to produce for us a goal, a game. What do you think about the Atlantic division going into this year? We were like, you were giving it the whole AL East thing and all,

all the best teams are in the division oh maybe they all suck second in the division at seven and five with a uh 571 winning percentage maybe they all suck maybe that's a nice development happy to be wrong about that it's been an incredible division for a long time it's the metro and the central that are looking to be the beasts of the of the league tampa seven and six detroit six and five and then everyone else below 500 bruins are six nine three and one doesn't impress you out of florida oh it impresses me it does impress me yes but they're plus seven goal differential they've won five straight games so i shouldn't start hedging on this but like i don't i don't look at that team so last year kip we looked at them and said good team complete built for the playoff style team but i don't look at that team. So last year, Kip, we looked at them and said, good team, complete, built for the playoff style team.

But I don't think anyone thought, we didn't think they were, I don't know, 10 miles ahead of everyone. They were just the best of the group. I think they're a little worse than they were last year. Like a little bit worse. Which is still good. Very good.

But they lost like 30% of their blue line. Yeah, significant pieces. Yes. You you know i look at some of the players in their team and then you know okay semescovich and you know aj career i actually like aj career i just i think they're fine kulikov mikola or their middle pair like they're not they're they're a good team i'm not trying to take away from them but i just don't think they're like holy smokes florida so but okay they are in my estimation the team to beat i would agree i uh i did some looking at like strength of schedule and they've they've had it pretty easy so far they were check my two sites here so far they've had the third easiest schedule in the NHL, second easiest by the other websites.

So it's going to get harder for them, and I think they've had a pretty fortunate draw so far. Coming up for Florida is Winnipeg, Carolina, Rangers, Minnesota. Like, they got some tough games coming up. And here's what I'll say about the teams they have this weekend. You should probably, with what you have in your lineup, without Austin Matthews, have a pretty good chance to get a couple results against the Red Wings and the Habs, who have both looked like two of the least threatening teams in the league.

They just never feel like they play well against Canadians. Yeah, no, it's always a game. It's always a game, and I think they're better against them on home ice than they are on the road. They always play some wild games. The Habs-Leafs, it's a a game. It's always a game. And, you know, I think they're better against them on home ice than they are on the road. They always play some wild games. The Cavs-Leafs is just, it's a little bit of a different thing, like a lot of rivalry games are. But the Red Wings have been, like, I mean, their shot attempts,

wherever we were talking with Dan Murphy yesterday, they're not very good. So you should be able to handle this weekend and get them ready for the Sens and the Cavs next week. That would be my estimation. I think that makes sense. Yep. Okay, where do you want to go?

Do you want to go to the depth up front behind the big boys? Yeah, I think that's who we're going to see more of, so there seem like relevant pieces of conversation. Yesterday we gave some love to David Kemp for his contributions to the penalty kill. Do you want to get Craig Bruby's thoughts on David Kemp? Well, I think the details of his game, being on the right side of things as a centerman, checking,

those types of things, that's his game, right? Penalty killing out there in them situations. And I feel like he's in a very good position now and using the stick well and did a great job killing lately. I mean, he's done very good position now and using the stick well and did a great job killing lately. I mean, he's done a real good job of killing and face-offs, right? I mean, his face-off has been good.

I feel like Brewie doesn't know what to make of David Camp. He sat out a game, right? He did. The Columbus game when they lost 6-1 or 6-2. And Dubas brought him in here and then he ended up being useful and everyone was so surprised he was useful we started talking about him like he was you know whatever i think he can very high used to his advantage guys not figuring out if he

if he if he likes them or not what do you oh mean as a coach, you say, yeah. I think. I like that. You know, whether or not it's McMahon or it's Kampf or it's Holmberg, like you are on a game-to-game, week-to-week basis on whether I like you or not. I can like you tonight and I will say nice things after the game about you, but I could not like you by the end of the next game

yeah so you better be on your toes you better be ready you better be thinking i am one bad game away from being a healthy scratch but what i love about that because that's the way i played my whole career but that's great because it's well in this case i think it's not personal it's play well and we're good play poorly we got issues it's not like no matter what you do i like you and you're gonna get ice time or no matter what you do i don't every hockey player has had some coach who they felt like it doesn't matter what i do because this guy will do your job there is a recurring theme going out it's like musical chairs like you've got a chair players have come out holmberg's out camp is out mcmahon's out we've all had we've got four or five guys that we could sit there and say

barubi doesn't like him yeah so i mean he said he uh that barubi doesn't know what to make of david campbell look at his ice times and his ice times would agree he played 16 23 last game 1205 the game before 949 1243 748 13 14 11 41 that sounds like he does know what he thinks not much i mean but to go from 748 to 1243 from in back-to-back games it's like then get to 16 maybe he's warming up on it maybe he's seeing a little of the details stuff that kind of have had him earn a lot of ice time around here in the past now in the old days and our stanley cup year we had like rosters of 2025 we had like back then we had probably four or five million dollars in the press box you know every every game dollars is 13 trillion can't do that anymore like

by by next week they're gonna have to make a decision here they're gonna have to Which in today's dollars is $13 trillion. Can't do that anymore. By next week, they're going to have to make a decision here. They're going to have to move some money out. I hear Camp's name comes up. That's the most mental suggestion I've ever heard. Like, you need David Camp. You don't have anyone else. You have no centers.

People really don't like David Camp camp and i've never like you know the 2.4 it was probably yeah i wish it was 1.4 it was probably a million dollars too much but and they really tie that to him and they hate on him and i've just never been there with him no like i just i i accept what he is long he's got great stick it's the loose things they don't have every band like i say every team needs butchers he needs every band needs a tuba player like you can't all be top six you need a guy that's like hey i my job is to chop away here yeah to play defense you need that when i got hired uh with the marlies lou was giving his orchestra speech to the team and how everyone you know you can't have a bunch of everyone can't play the flute you need tuba players and i was trying to record it on

my phone. He caught you? I wanted, someone else was like, just look to me. I was like, don't. Don't do it. I just wanted to have. It's famous. The Lou speech is famous.

Yes, the orchestra. And it's like taking a picture of the roof of the Sistine Chapel or whatever, which I also did. But I just wanted to have it. With no photos allowed sign. It's always like, it blows my mind when people are trying to, I don't know if you've ever been to the Louvre in Paris, but everyone's crowding around the Mona Lisa. It's like, go online.

It's like this big. And then you turn around and there's literally like a wall-sized, unbelievable, I'm like, that one seems way better. It's way better. Yeah. But so that's it. It's like, it's such a famous thing to say because it's true. You do need people who do something different for you.

David Kemp does something different. And he is a natural center man. True center who wins a ton of draws. Wins draws. And that's the tough part. So there might have been a reason why you needed to go spend almost two and a half million bucks on him. And I thought last night, or the last game,

they reunited Marner and Kemp from the penalty kill, which has been a good pair for them in the penalty kill because it's been matthews and marner and they played a lot in the penalty kill which you know i'd mixed feelings about but it's just so nice because they're on the same line yeah but yeah shuffle your bench it's easier for the bench no question but i think camp and marner is a good pair on the penalty kill and they look good in the game against boston yeah so okay with no, with no potential Austin Matthews this weekend, that means Berubio will lean on Max Domi. Let's get his thoughts on what he's seen out of Max so far.

He attacked in the inside more, and not only on the power play, but some five-on-five situations where he used the shot. He shot more. He needs to keep building off that and you know not always being on the outside and looking to make plays and he's a great playmaker we all know that but getting on the inside shoot pucks more hounding um and then you know obviously when he's uh defensively he's been on the right side of things which is good you know as an f3 or playing down low in our zone he's doing a good job there how long are you okay with max domi his own his offensive contributions being just assists like if he finishes with 0 and 35 this year or 0 and 40

assists like are you okay with that well i, if he's playing well, checking well, and there's enough goals coming from other contributions, it's not pretty for him. I get it. He ripped a couple off the iron recently. He's not in close. That toe drag high blocker attempt where he missed by a millimeter would have been one of the nicer goals I've seen a Leafs score in a while.

Beautiful toe drag. It's almost as if he was the first person to say, and I know that they don't play together, but there just seems to be a, maybe I've got a green light to shoot the puck more now that Austin's gone. We need more, we need shots. We need to shoot the puck more.

You look at the Oilers without Connor. Dre Settle all of a sudden is like, Welp, I need to shoot the puck more and you look at the oilers without connor dray said all of a sudden is like welp i need to turn into brett hall you know that's like also having the big mean coach tell you every single day to shoot the damn puck more probably is going to affect your ability i like that he's in his ear saying get to those areas shoot the puck shoot the puck well you're you're selfish if you don't yes we're we we grow up with a mentality that you don't want to be selfish and virtuous and it's like no you you you pass up a shooting opportunity that's a selfish move because it's not what we need yeah we need pucks in the net and uh if you're looking for the pretty place you can get the backpacks that become selfish at some point um all right so the coach

you know we're going to go around the fringes of the team a little bit still because that's what's going to be uh elevated in the absence of matthews let's talk about patches and the physicality because we've lauded him with praise recently um his coach noticed too let's talk a clip five here yeah very uh i think it rubs off in the whole team and um you know it's an important part of our game is being physical, and he's doing a great job of it. There you go. And let's go to Pat Tretti himself off the back of that.

Maybe when I'm playing against some top six guys, they don't expect guys in the top six to be that physical. It's something that I've kind of, not to sound cocky, been good at, but it's hard to do. It's, like, really hard to play like that and then play offensive and make plays. So I'm really trying to find a balance, not to say that I want to be less physical, but I've got to find ways to extend plays because of it. And that's just, you know, at my age, I talked a lot about, I don't want to say changing my role,

but changing kind of my style of play, especially defending with this team. I think that's really beneficial for the team, but I think that there's more offensively that I can help while doing that. He's a good talker, man. He is. You know what I heard? I want to score the puck. I don't want to do this.

I want to score the day of hockey puck. I'll do it if I got to. It's, yeah. I want to separate the day of hockey. I'll do it if I gotta. It's, yeah. I want to, you know, he's talking about separating people from the puck so you can extend the possessions, so you can shoot at the net. How many minutes did he play the other night? Like, again, there's a guy that's probably used to playing anywhere between 17 and 20 minutes in the height of his career, right?

So, like, would he attempt one big hit you know in in the height of his career would he have tried to hit one or two guys like that or just his ice time's been pretty consistent with just around 15 just around 15 he was 14 15 14 10 15 11 14 22 15 minutes like it's always sustainability to me is like what I'm going to look at. Like how long can he keep hitting like a Mack truck? It's keeping them in the lineup. It's what separates him from Robertson. If neither of you are scoring,

this guy keeps smashing people. I know, I know the game's changed over the years, but human behavior hasn't all the time. And I will say this, that if I played against him and I saw him taking these healthy runs, including the one that he hit the kid. Jared McMahon?

No. Peek? Oh, Peek? Peek. Yeah. Right? Knocked him out of the game. And I don't know, he's week to week now.

The kid's out. Yeah. i'm just saying if i came up against patch ready the first thing i want to do is knock his block off yeah right because it's like at some point someone's going to start these some of the guys are going to start challenging them so you get that reputation i think this is a really important detail that kind of goes undersold with physical play for years the leafs have been chasing the bruins around trying to prove that they're tough or as tough or whatever always on the wrong side of this stuff so patrietti hits peak and all of a sudden boston's like oh you

know we got to get him back and they chase him around zadorov takes a dumb penalty chasing around twice twice yep leafs go in the power play morgan riley shoots it in the net one nothing leafs peaks out of the game yeah you know like you start being on that side of there will be more i don't know how many more because a lot of it's been curtailed but there'll be another zadoroff that says i i can't let this guy keep running around and and hitting me and i don't know what the domino effect will that be on on ryan reeves or anyone else in between there you know it's hard when you when you hit like that and you hurt guys it gets noticed not only about about the team that you're about to play against detroit you don't think detroit's already talked about patch ready keep your head up the guy could

hurt you or you know and it's like well let's get him first let's he's not sneaking up on people there's a there's a chain reaction here that's still exists so do you have to get used to the other team telling you i'm gonna come get you because when you throw hits a lot like you're now in that uncomfortable position where the other team is saying you're hunted you're hunted you're hunted and i think you see it from florida and boston with great success it probably takes some acclimation getting used to playing well while you're feeling like the game is coming for you oh yeah yeah and i don't know where he's where that comfort zone is going to be is it like yeah bring it on right yeah like that takes a special player to be like oh yeah i'll dig it i'll dig damn deeper and if push comes to shove and i gotta i get challenged what am i gonna

do do i fight a guy do i not fight a guy do i say hey listen my game's really about like big hits and then try to score a goal and it's not and everyone going no it's not this stuff you know i don't want to fight. Colby Armstrong was on the panel last night. He was talking about how he was running around hitting guys. And Jamal Mayers was like, you're going to run around like that. You're going to have to fight me. And Colby was like, no, I'm not.

You got to catch me. You know, like, you know, skating around. You know, it's tough to be the guy who hits. You know, Pat Chiaretti has snuck up on people with this play, right? We didn't really expect it. I'm sure the opponents didn't really expect it, but it's like we're barely in the second week of November. Like if he keeps this up by January, February,

like it's a different mentality. Like you said, if people start challenging you in different ways how do you react did you I was gonna say it gives you a whole new appreciation for like the Kachuk brothers and like Tom Wilson and like

Tom Wilson like he's so big he's like yeah and like I guess Marshan and his like or literally the second you step on the ice you were the most hated guy on the other team from the other team. They're running at you and you're still scoring a hundred points. You're fighting, you're hitting. Like there's a normal, that's what you make. $8 million.

It's a normal feel for those brothers. Yeah. Right. It's like, I'm going to get you. And they're looking and go, everyone is getting live. They're all trying to get me. You're no different. Take a number. You're not special. go, get in line. They're all trying to get me. You're no different. Take a number.

You're not special. I'll get to you. You have a deli number? Right? Shit, I'm not up for a week. That's my language. Number 72 to kill Matthew Kachuk. Your order's ready.

So did you play like that in junior? Like, did that, did you, was there a point where you started to do that? Listen, I, I, one year I think I scored 40 goals. I had 112 penalty minutes. Yeah. So I had a few fights. I kind of liked it a little bit because I, I don't know who I knocked out. Wayne Presley came after me one night in Kitchener when I was like barely 17

and I knocked him out. And I'm like, oh, that was kind of cool. Yeah. I want to try that again. And then there was a buildup towards it a little bit. But there was always a little bit of a part of me that didn't mind it. So when I had to like really step on the gas pedal to do it, I was okay. And were there times where you start jawing at someone and you can tell that they're scared or they don't want it and it's like emboldening?

Yeah, it's like, I got you. Very few times I felt on the other side of that. You're like, oh, this guy does not want to do this. And then there's times where I bluffed and I'm like, I get my bluff called and then I'm like at the bottom of the pile. Yes. But it's like, you're better off at the bottom

of a pile than not doing it. Than not doing it. Yeah. Because once you get called out on a bluff, then then you're toast. Then it's like you're not you're and it's not just the opponents looking at you going bluffer phony fraud those are the biggest insults of your era it's some of your teammates my dad and his friends calling someone a phony

or that's like all a fraud that's like the ultimate, like, that guy doesn't actually want. Right up there with like soft and oh, those are just like, those are demoralizing. Soft is the worst thing you get called as a hockey player. Like, oh, you're just soft. Soft. There's not one thing I think that's worse to hear than that. Soft as baby doo-doo. Healthy. Yep.

Anyways. All right. Good on Petra. Listen, keep it going, Max. Yep, anyways. All right. Get on, Petra. Hey, listen. Keep it going, Max. Keep it going. I had a riveting version of true or false that I thought we might have to use there.

So maybe we'll get into it a little bit after the break. We have Josh Cloak as well. But I had a few good true or false questions that I cooked up. Maybe we won't have time to get to them. All right. Anyways. All right.

We'll talk to him after the break. Okay, let's take a quick break. As our leader, Sam McKee just mentioned, Joshua Cloak, Leaf writer for The Athletic, will join us after we hear these words. Hey, it's Ailish Forafar. And I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day

and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the Fan Pre-Game, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. Nick Kemperell, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. In a few minutes, we'll welcome in Joshua Cloak. But just a quick note, because we're going to talk about this much more in depth

in our national hour, but a bit of a historic hockey story out there. The NCAA has lifted their eligibility ban to allow CHL players to compete at U.S. colleges. That is a very big story, JB. I mean, it changes the landscape of junior hockey, of college hockey, of how people develop and get to the NHL. I took great pains.

I played one game for the Kelowna Rockets, and it was a great soul-searching. They had promised to rip up the roster so I could stay college eligible. It was a big deal. It shouldn't have been. What's the difference? Yeah. Just trying to develop. Wow.

So they ripped up the roster, eh? That's what they told me they would do. I don't think anyone ever pursued it. So because of this story, we're also, we got Jeremy Roenick coming up at the top of the hour so you don't want to miss that and maybe we'll ask him a little bit about that because as an American coming in and

whether or not the college route back then compared to the CHL and the opportunities that were around his time and how he sees what a day like today does for US hockey players moving forward here. We'll welcome in Jason Bukala in studio.

Right, Sammy? You got it, bud. Okay, great. In the meantime, let's talk to Joshua Cloak, Leaf writer for The Athletic, as the Leafs gear up towards a Hall of Fame weekend starting Friday night against Detroit and then the Montreal Canadiens on Saturday. Joshua, thanks for joining us, man.

How are you? Not bad at all. Staring into the sun, heading west on a 4-1, so I guess I am doing pretty terribly. I don't know why I defaulted to nice there. It's awful, but happy to talk to you guys as always. Well, we appreciate it so earlier in the show we were discussing leafs with no austin matthews so yeah you know where

where's the perception outside of this studio here amongst many that cover the leafs day-to-day with you in terms of the concern or or what the the effects mean uh around the hockey club with with no matthews potentially this weekend yeah i'd be surprised if he plays this weekend um and and i think that's based a little bit on like it's gonna sound harsh but like does he have to right ultimately and we've said this before, you need Austin Matthews at his best for that late season run in the playoffs. You want to avoid whatever happened last season when you lose your two best players in the playoffs. One of those was a freak thing.

Austin Matthews doesn't need to score 60-plus goals for this team to get in the playoffs. He needs to be at his absolute best in April. So I don't think there's any need to rush him back. I don't think there's any desire to rush him back. I also don't think it's the kind of thing that you just need 48 hours off from. I suspect we'll probably see him back at some point next week, I suspect. And it's just such a huge opportunity for other guys.

You guys were talking about Max Domi to really prove what they're worth. And also, like, maybe it's enough for Brad Treeliving to go, you know what, the center depth, this isn't just a thing that people on the outside are talking about. We really need to address this. And, like, maybe it forces an early season move. Like, when you guys watch them, when you watch Max Domi top line center, do you not think, boy, we really could use that third line center

that we needed in the offseason, right? So, as the guys come back from LTIR, you know, they're looking to get Connor Dewar back and probably Hawk and Paw. What are your thoughts on how that's going to affect their roster? It was such a good idea in theory, right, when you bring all these guys into training camp. And I might be in the minority on this, but you're bringing all these guys into training camp

to create a sense of competition, to push guys. We saw Max Pacioretty early in the minority on this, but like you bring in all these guys into training camp to create a sense of competition, to push guys. We saw Max patch ready early in the season. When he comes out of the lineup, he comes back in, plays really well. We saw Nick Robertson feel like he was fighting for his life for the preseason.

He plays really well. But now you've kind of backed yourself into a corner. And, and you're neat. You're probably going to need to throw some players who have been solid contributors, you're going to need to throw them on waivers. I don't know if

Connor Timmons gets claimed, but he's played some of his best, most efficient hockey as a Maple Leaf, and you might have to waive them and you might lose them. And is it worth doing all that just to kind of jam all these guys in here? We don't know what Hockenpah is going to be like.

He hasn't played in a very long time. Hasn't played an NHL game in a very long time. I think you have guys like, and Borny, I know you're a fan, but I think you have guys like Connor Dewar in the lineup already. So I don't know if you feel like we're really missing someone like him. I think it's a bit complicated and I think it's unnecessarily complicated to have all these guys and to try and jam them back in. I don't know where you guys stand,

but I didn't like it from the start because you're, you're, you feel like you might now have to lose someone who's, who's been pretty reliable for you. Yeah. I'm not losing timid to, to take a chance on Hockenpah. For me, that's not happening.

And yes, he will get snapped up. Right-handed D, that big, that has shown an ability so far to play 16, 17 minutes and limit his mistakes now, will be snapped up. I didn't think Connor Dewar. I didn't think Connor Dewar I didn't have Connor Dewar high on my list of guys that would thrive under Craig Berube. And I

talked to him about it. I'm like, you know, let's be honest no one really pegged you as a guy that was going to come flying out of the gates and play really well. And he kind of laid it out for me. He's like, you know how simple it is to play like hockey like for Craig Brube? Like, get north, move quick, move the puck quick,

don't overcomplicate things. He's like, perhaps I was doing a lot of that in the past. But if you play simple, essentially your coach is going to like it. And I just find that fascinating for a guy like him that was kind of in and out under Sheldon Keith. And he's like, yeah, I just play things fascinating for a guy like him that was kind of in and out under Sheldon Keith. And he's like, yeah, I just play things really,

really simple. And lo and behold, I've become really important to this team. Yeah. Connor Dewar is going to be interesting when he comes back. He's only 25 years old, but five, you talk about guys that Ruby might like everything he does is stuff Ruby

might like, but will he like someone who's 5'10", centerman in your bottom six? Like, I am curious to see how that works because it's all the attributes the coach likes without the physical attributes. I mean, when he gets asked about Nick Robertson, what's the first thing he says?

Just not big. Just not big. What you love about covering Craig Berube is, like, he's never going to beat around the bush, right? You know, when Timothy Lilligren gets traded and he's asked, why didn't it go right or why didn't it play very well, right? Like, it's just, there's never a question about how Craig Berube

is really feeling. So, I don't know. I just, I think you have guys like him like like connor doer um and that's not to pick on the guy it's just like you you know you were talking about the orchestra before like there's it feels like they have three or four drummers right now um and i just don't i feel like he's a drummer and i just i don't. I feel like they should be adding some of those flute players that you guys are talking about. We're talking to Josh Cloak, Leaf writer for The Athletic.

So do three power play goals the other night solve all their problems? I mean, they definitely allow Marc Savard to probably sleep more than three hours at night, right? That's probably all it does is it just makes everyone relax and remind everyone, you know, Sabard and the personnel, like we can do this, again, just by keeping things really, really simple. Like you watch those goals. Some of them are really ugly.

Like Willie's was ugly, but what's he doing? He's just throwing it at the net, right? And this doesn't make it the, you know, you don't want the whole thing to sound so simple. like willies was was ugly but what's he doing he's just throwing it at the net right and and this doesn't make it the you know you don't want the whole thing to sound so simple but under craig brube it kind of is um and that's what like it's fascinating you guys are talking about like max patch ready before and just what a great story is like max patch ready i think it's thriving because he's played you know in the league such a long time ekman larson as well we can lump him in there they've played for so many

coaches they've gotten adaptable and they understand how you have to be flexible and change your game and do what a coach requires of you there's guys on this team that played for shelvin keith for so long and we're just programmed to think the way that Keefe, you know, wants the game to be played. I think it's taken some guys time to deprogram, but the Ekman Larson, the, you know, patch ready. Once you've played for whatever eight, 10 coaches, you, you grow an ability to shift and play Kipper. You know, that's like you just ultimately realized I just do what the coach wants.

It's going to be simpler for me. And the power play was evidence of that. I think just, you know, put it at the net. We'll see where the consistency goes with that. Josh, I really appreciate your time.

Thanks for joining us. Yeah. Anytime guys. Thanks so much, man. Josh cloak. I figured we have a few minutes. Sam,

he's got a couple of questions. We would reserve a few minutes at the end here my true or false? I thought we might as well get to those anything you want to talk about off the back of that or we're all good? no I'm good except for this show's newfound love of

Connor Timmons which is shocking yeah but he mentioned it there there's just no way that you'd ever consider that I'm not saying about Josh saying it he he mentioned it there. There's just no way that you'd ever consider that. I'm not saying it about Josh saying it. He just mentioned it as a part. You're just not... Hockenpah is an interesting fit with

Connor Timmons playing as well as he has. Connor Timmons turned 26 a couple minutes ago. What are you going to do? Is it Benoit that comes out? Two right-handed shots? Oilers were doing that last night. Don't try to be? Oilers were doing that last night. Don't try to be the Oilers, D. I know.

It was Thatcher and Emberson were playing together. No, maybe not. Anyways. Just get through the weekend, boys. It won't go from there. One foot in front of the other. True or false? Matthew Nyes has the potential

to represent USA at the Four Nations Faceoffoff you're lucky to know kip and i have thought about this and discussed it yeah uh i think it was a no uh not yet not yet i'm uh i'm more i'm more into it i i think it really depends on how much of a believer bill garrett how familiar bill garrett is with him and what he believes he can be because his stats this year will be pretty undeniable in a month let's say he's got 15 goals by december 2nd when they make the team and he's six foot three and 220 yeah i killed penalties i just think if can i ask you if billy garren's got a guy like that matt boldy in the lineup right now that uh he'll probably lean towards him over matthew nize and

they might nize is heavier than him right but boldy plays a very very strong game just in in in that similar type of role. They're just so good up front. I was just saying, I'm just looking at the USA projected thing. No, he's not going to be there over Caulfield, is he? Connor? Yeah, hold on. Stop right there.

Yeah? Yeah, very possibly. The Caulfield thing for me is just if you're going to have the elite guys that they have up front and Kachucks and Miller and Austin Matthews and whatever, if Caulfield's not on Power Play 1 or Power Play 2... Doesn't make any sense. No, Nyes makes way more sense.

Okay. It's obviously not Connor, Eichel, Gensel, Hughes, Jack Hughes, Keller, Kreider, Dylan Larkin, Matthews, JT Miller, Jason Robertson, Brady Kachuck, Matthew Kachuck. Pretty stacked. Dylan Larkin's in for sure. For sure. Those are Sarah Dern, okay. Good team. They stacked. Dylan Larkin's in for sure. For sure. Clayton Norris. They were doing okay. Good team.

They're really tough choices. That is the favorite. Favorite? Oh, the Americans are the favorite for sure. I'll check that 365 for that in the next hour. Should they back me up on that? You think so? They got goaltending.

Okay. Next question for you. True or false? Anthony Stoller plays over 40 games this year. If he doesn't, Leafs are screwed. What's he at right now? Eight? Nine?

Eight? Yeah. If he doesn't, major disappointment at this point. Because he's already played so many. Well, yeah. And it's not like he's had a great week. He's had a very, very good training camp on. So you just hope that he can stay healthy.

And even if it pulls back a little bit, I think he's shown enough that he can be a very, very good goalie. Like he's, I can't recall watching him yet where I can go. He really lost his net there. No. Like I'm watching Stuart Skinner last night and I'm like, game winning goal with Noah Hannafin. You didn't like the game winner.

I didn't like the game tie. I just think he needs to be bigger and out. And I need Hannafin's shot to go post in. I don't need it four inches off the post inside. I worked with Gazdik last night, and he was teammates with Stolarz, I don't know, some years ago. And he said that it takes a while for a big guy to control the body. Like, he used to be a lot busier and out of the net,

and this year it's all tighter, and he stops at the end of his movements. Yeah, he's a big goalie, and honestly, there's some themes going around with the big goalies and wear and tear, and I get the back-to-backs with the big goalies and wear and tear and i i get the back-to-backs with the big goalies more than ever yeah but you just hope that he can stay healthy yeah this was a part of my original true or false but true or false austin matthews still gets to 50 goals this year it's silly to bet why would you bet against it after what he's been able to do and where he's been historically for eight years. Right?

Last year, I don't remember how many hat tricks he had last year. How many hat tricks did he have last year? Didn't he have six? He had six hat tricks last year. He's got five right now. Five goals, right? Yeah. He's about to miss three games. He's going to have a few hat tricks.

A few hat tricks. Imagine being so sick. Like, he'll have a few hat tricks. There's going to be a heater for him for two weeks where it's like goal a game. Right. And that gets him back on pace for 50. Well. It's going to be hard for him to get to 50.

He's got to get. 40 to 50. Mega hot to get to 50. And I don't care. I'm just wondering. What did I tell you guys? Well. I know you don't care.

Like, be a 40 goal scorer. I'd like to see his assists up. You're talking about Max Di having no goals this year like i don't want my number one centerman to end up with another 33 assists get those suckers up yeah i'm watching ovechkin last night did you see the setup goal he's in the slot they're panicking two guys go to him and he just slides it right down to... How is this happening? That Ovechkin is just like... Pontress on a nice wraparound. The elite special athletes can just maintain that.

Crosby is point per game again. 16 points in 12 games for Ovi. Eight and eight. It's crazy. And Sid's, like, what? 18 straight years at a point per game or something? And my last, true or false? True or false.

This is Nick Kiprios at the uh bruce prinstein concert last night the screen does you more or the the video top left top left with uh with the poppy i'm the only one wearing a poppy a Look at your hair. Bunch of bad Canadians. In fairness, in the video, you look much more put together than that screenshot. They really took you to a different moment. There you go. That's quite the effort to get that up. I got to be honest with you.

Look at the boss, though. The boss is still bringing it. He's rocking the Santa bucket early. Did he do like the, what's his, he's got the biggest Santa Claus comment. As soon as that hat goes on, that's it. But that's money, he's got the biggest, Santa Claus is coming. He did that? As soon as that hat goes on, that's it. But that's money. If you're not singing it in November, when are you singing Santa Claus is coming to town?

It is the greatest Christmas song of all time, I think. But anyways, just want to make sure that is you. True. True. There you go. True or false? You paid for your tickets. No, I was invited.

You've never paid for a damn thing. Sammy's going to the game tomorrow night. We have that in common. I'm the Sammy of a Bruce Springsteen concert like Sammy's to a Leaf game tomorrow night. Are you in the lower bowl tomorrow night? I am lower bowl. I'm in the lower bowl. Both, I get the Leafs shooting on the net twice too.

Like I'm in the sweet spot. Neither of you are in Colby's hotel room. Oh, my God. What did he do? He just tweeted his hotel room? Yeah. That hotel room cost... They only had this room available or whatever,

and they bumped him up. That hotel room cost more than I made my first three years here at Rockers. If I get that hotel room, nobody knows about it. I'm not broadcasting that, Colby. Right. Right? I'm not coming out either. I'm living broadcasting that, Colby. Right. Right? No, I'm not coming out either. I'm living in there.

Squatter's rights, baby. All right, our thanks to Joshua Cloak from the Leaf writer with The Athletic. When we return, Jeremy Roenick going to the Hockey Hall of Fame. He's going to join us before he makes his way over here. Plenty more still to come

on Real Kipper and Bourne.