Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Injury Concern Levels

Episode Date: December 30, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne, and Sam McKee open the show by discussing Saturday night's game against the Washington Capitals. They questioned whether goaltending was to fault, whether they could keep first place in the Atlantic Division despite injuries, and their concerns regarding Auston Matthews. Later, Sportsnet Writer Luke Fox (31:34) joins the show to discuss Auston Matthews' likely return date, whether he will compete in the 4 Nations Face-off tournament, whether Matthew Knies can regain his flow, Max Pacioretty's importance to the roster the Leafs' scoring abilities from the defensive end and finally his thoughts on the goaltending tandem.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliate.

all right our last show 2024 boys nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee andrew adams double a general nick jr just just waiting to double check this all with Sam. Sam, is this all correct? I don't know. Wherever you are watching, listening, Sports Step 590, the fans, Sports Step 360, Sports Step Plus, just the three of us. Security guard came by just before we came in, threw me the keys and said, lock up when you're done.

I think we're the only ones in the building. I think you're right. There was a broom being pushed by a couple of, like I haven't seen a whole lot. You know, there's a few dust bunnies flying through here. I gotta say, if you're listening today, thank you very much. You are in like in the Spotify wrapped. You're in the 0.1% of our listeners.

Where's everybody else? Doing stuff. It's a holiday. No one's working. I bet you if you're in your car right now and you're driving around and you heard the Kipper and Bourne theme song, you're like, they're working today?

So we'll be off tomorrow. A busy day in the National Hockey League tomorrow night. Leafs at 1. We've got 1 o'clock. Sportsnet Ontario will be back on the desk. Kipper and I are on it. David Amber, Elliot Friedman. So that'll be fun.

Yeah. But there's plenty to talk about. on the desk. Kipper and I are on it. David Amber, Elliot Friedman. So that'll be fun. Yeah. There's plenty to talk about. I mean, it's not like we're coming in here and twiddling our thumbs for the next two hours. No, there's legitimate content to be, you know, made here. Yeah. So feel free to go, boys. I'll just sit back and relax.

What do you want to talk about? Enjoy my eggnog under the desk. How was everyone's holiday? It was eggnog under the desk. How was everyone's holiday? It was phenomenal. Yeah. A lot of nice times spent with family. Then I came back to Trot. I just went really fast.

Yeah. Did you get a fresh Leaf jersey? No, nothing. I don't really get gifts anymore, which I'm totally fine with. Here and there, I got a gift. My brother-in-law got me an awesome President's Cup Peter Millar golf shirt. So that's really nice. Got a sweet, tragically hip table book

from my mother-in-law. That's pretty much it. Lovely. I got boots. They're nice boots. I'm at an age now where I'm like, those are great boots. I want those boots.

That's a good boot. I'm at the age, I got a blender from my sister-in-law, and I was thrilled. Like, if I had got a blender in my mid-20s, I would have thrown it in the trash. Now I'm like, oh, my God, yes. This is going to change my life. A cocktail blender.

No, I don't eat breakfast. I have a lot of shakes in the morning. A little smoothie action. Yeah, a big smoothie guy. Nice. Yeah. So where do we start with the Toronto Maple Leafs? Because, like I said, there's some news and notes going around that hockey club,

including Austin Matthews back on the ice. But overall, the Toronto Maple Leafs played their league-leading ninth back-to-back game. What was that board you did on the show the other day? How many did they have this year? 17? 16? 16. The most in the NHL.

Yeah, I think Carolina as well at 16. Meanwhile, some teams at 8, 9, 10. Winnipeg. Yeah. But you can't say that because they're out west and they travel like 10 times more than most other teams. So I guess we're not allowed to mention that. Okay.

But other teams were still at 10, 11, 12, not 16 back-to-backs. Would you like me to read some of the Toronto Maple Leafs? I was texted this today, so I would read something to you. Nine back-to-backs so far, mostly NHL, like you mentioned. They've played more than the Winnipeg has all year

and will play all year. Faced an arrested home team four times and arrested team seven of nine back-to-backs. 500 record, 4-4-1 in the second half of back-to-backs, 6-6-1 percentage in non-back-to-backs, 18-9-1 back-to-back the last five

weekends. Yeah, and again, this weekend, and just to add to Sam's point, SportLogic did some data for me. The Leafs from now on, because of what he's talking about, have the sixth easiest remaining schedule. So they hopefully will have some opportunities to make up

some of the abuse they took in the first half of the year. And what is it Amazon and Four Nations face-off related? Why they've played this insane schedule? Like, why have they played such an insane schedule? Is it Four Nations? Well, it's Four Nations and Amazon. I told you

guys. They want those Monday nights. Not only do they want the Leafs the most, which they got on Monday night, but they made it clear they don't want to compete against the Leafs playing that night. So Mondays are basically off limits to alleviate any type of scheduling issues. So they either get them or it's a day of the week the Leafs can't play.

Can you imagine that? So Monday night, which is tonight. I'm lost. It is tonight. What day is today? So it's Winnipeg and Nashville. And listen, Winnipeg's first place team, big names, star names, like they deserve the platform.

But Amazon sitting there going, first place or last place doesn't matter. We don't want the Leafs playing against Winnipeg. So cram it somewhere else, which they did. So that does jam up the schedule a bit. Is what it is. You play the cards you're dealt. You mentioned it.

The fifth easiest meaning that they'll play next weekend as well they'll be boston's in town next saturday or this saturday and then sunday they fly off immediately to play philadelphia after that uh do we know the next back-to-back? I think just one in January. It's going to alleviate a little bit here. Alleviates a bit. And like this week, for example, you get the Islanders twice and Flyers once. Like even the Bruins.

Yeah, so no more back-to-backs in January. Okay. So that's good. But it is literally every day or every other day. Like they have a crazy just like every other day, which if you're doing a radio show hypothetically, that might be great. So Washington, for an example,

while the Leafs were in Detroit battling it out, and we also did that hockey game, they got to practice in Washington that afternoon, jump on a plane, be in Toronto before dinner, have a nice dinner, sit back, watch the leafs go against detroit watch them watch them all limp to the bench every player in that game got hurt like their whole decor half a dozen easy and then uh lawrence went down and i'm like oh yeah like that didn't look good he played saturday night of course got his helmet stuck in the glass in warm-up on Saturday night. How does that happen?

I've never seen that before. They literally, Domi cut it with scissors to get it out of there. That's crazy. So they're watching all of that, and they're like. All right, let's go. It did. I'm not. We're going to pick apart Saturday night.

Yeah. But it has to be a big part of just. Didn't help. Thank just... Didn't help. Thank you. Didn't help. Those are the words I'm looking for. And you know what, Kip? I thought they played pretty well

given all of what you're talking about. I thought, in fact, and maybe this is the first place we go, if Anthony Stolarz is in that and not Matt Murray, that might be like any other game where they hang around, the score's a lot closer.

Maybe they come out on top. I thought they were hurt by bad goaltending. That's the first game I can sit there and say that, to your point, if they get Stolarz from three weeks ago, a month ago, they find a way to win that hockey game. Like the Mangiapane shot is dead in the middle of a pad and he kind of slides out of the way of it. And then know the chikrin one is you know it's a good shot but he's there six six and he's there he's and murray was there too and he just whiffed on

chikrin's goal so if you're this much quicker and this much bigger i mean you're catching a piece yeah i don't know where you guys are are at on theildeby versus Matt Murray in quite a sad backup battle here. But I've seen a couple Matt Murray games here. I think I'd like to go back to the well on seeing Hildeby again here. Yeah. I think I've seen enough from the two games that he's played in here where I'm like, you know what? Maybe try Hildeby now.

To me, you keep saying, why don't you take it? You play, you play. Why don't you show us it's yours? So just on that, Matt Murray has been assigned back to the Marlies. And Hildeby has been recalled. I'm not sure if that's the cap thing that they did before. Their cap, it's very comparable. $30,000 difference.

But it's not about that. It's about, remember, him clearing waivers? Like if he spends a certain amount of time on the roster and he has to go back down, he doesn't have to clear waivers at a certain point so i don't know if it's that or they're actually going to start he'll to be in the second half of the back they called him up tomorrow and yeah i'm on the bench i don't think that's happening what's the point right i i think based on what we saw last night they're they're looking at matt murray going this guy this guy just needs to play yeah and he needs to play down there.

Yeah. He's not up here. Okay, your timing's off. You've been away for a long time. Go get some reps. Nothing will help him become a better goalie and find his old form like playing. He just needs to be in the net as much as possible.

Yeah. So be it. And clearly, you're shaping up for Joseph Wall, Joseph Wall against the Islanders. Yeah. Right? Yeah. There's no excuse to go to a backup goalie tomorrow or Thursday.

No, because particularly if you do it Thursday, then you've still got a back-to-back where you're probably giving one to a backup, and now you're just giving a lot of backup games away. That's coming. So it's better Hildeby at this point than Matt Murray against Boston or Philadelphia next weekend. Yeah. You probably won't see a backup until Murray probably plays on Saturday

or Hildeby, whichever. But the point is you're going to see Wohl get a playoff-like schedule here for the next couple weeks until Stolarz is back. Probably three games per week. All right. For his thoughts on our first Kippers Clipper and first of last in 2024, let's go to Craig Berube.

All righty. Clip six. No, for sure. But it's about results too, right? It's about how they play and things like that. So we're going to look at all that but yes our schedule is more you know easier to you know get one guy running here a little bit so that's we'll just listen i'm just focused on tomorrow's game that's it

i'm not going beyond that game i'm going to focus on that game only and then i'll worry about the next one so ruby has a cold huh yeah join the rest of the world yeah no kidding uh there's no worry about you know like i mentioned this before when we were talking about after stolarz got hurt and they were pushing wall i know that they are in a pretty good spot here in the division considering the panthers just lost the hab somehow anyways like i know they want to win the division but is it worth you know having subpar goaltending here to take it a little bit easy with joe wall as opposed to pushing them in a real starter's role so first if you lose him then you're hooped yeah the first thing i want to note out of that clip though is just that he said it's about results yeah so this isn't just about you know

management or waivers or whatever it is something to do with murray's performance the other night so that that's one note the other thing is i think to your point of earlier about stolarz and let's see if he can do it i think you're in a bit of that point with wool too where i think you see if he can do it and play a lot because it should give him confidence you know that he can do it if he gets through some of these stretches playing a lot of hockey get to playoffs okay you've done it before and if he can't you need to know that too yeah so i think he gathers some good information here again with without the pressure of back-to-back games you're in a better position to to go to wall a lot more in january And we know that Stolarz isn't coming back anytime soon here.

No updates on that, eh? Well, he's not skating. Yeah. At least a couple weeks. He's already been out 10 days, two weeks. Sounds right. So I would think he probably is still a month away from playing his first game. Do you think so?

Well, if he starts skating next week, how quickly do you want to throw him back in? I don't know. You're right. My point is it's really kind of shaping up for Joseph Wall to have the majority of the starts, I believe, in January. But a lot will dictate on as early as the next two games on, like, if he gets on a roll, you're going to say,

hey, run with it a little bit here. As long as there's no back-to-backs. And you've seen Stolarz do it when Wall was out. You're seeing Marner do it when Matthews is out. Like, if you want to be a big name, you've got to step up when the other guy's out. Like, if he struggles, they lose the next two games, and he struggles, then you got a lot more of a concerning issue

on going to Hildeby or maybe calling Matt Murray back up. I don't know. But until that happens, you got to, to your point, hey, it's not like you've been overtaxed. You didn't start the season. You were hurt. Like, if you get on a roll here, let's run with it a little bit. Yeah, and he's 24 or 25, whatever he is.

One thing I do want to do is kind of update where they are in the division. Right now, they're tied with Florida. Florida has played 37 games and so have the Leafs. They both have 22 wins, 13 losses, two OT losses for 46 points. They are both a plus 10 goal differential. Dead tie. It's like when you win, they win. When you lose, they lose.

They've just been mirroring each other. The one difference, well, there's two differences. Florida has 11 more goals for and 11 fewer goals, sorry, and 11 more goals against. So the Leafs are better defensively, not as good offensively so far this year. Oh, and the Leafs have one extra regulation win. So were they tied today, they would get the playoff spot.

If we are going to stay on the standings just for a split second, and I think there's a few teams in the East that can thank the New York Rangers for nose diving. Last. Dead last. Dead Last. Dead last. Dead last. Dead last.

But Ottawa's taking advantage of it. And if they claim to win their game in hand that they have on both Florida and Toronto, they're four points out. Yeah, you're not wrong. Four points out of first in the division the reality is i mentioned the leafs are tied for first in their division they have a 622 winning percentage which would be fourth in the metro it would be fourth in the pacific and third in the central so the top of

the atlantic is soft the bottom soft it's a soft division well i know but there's four legitimately good teams between toronto tampa florida and boston tampa is actually red hot yeah and they yeah they they're a team that has a they've got plus 37 goal differential this year best seven and three in their last they're sniffing right behind who also just lost to the habs really weird yeah both florida teams also have anyways head coach craig Craig Berube mentioned on his clip there he doesn't want to look any further than the New York Islanders. Let's get his thoughts on facing Patrick Waas, New York Islander team. Well, we know what they are.

They've been a certain way for quite some time as a team. Their identity of how they play. They're a patient team. They don't give you a ton. You've got to earn your chances. It's important for us not to get impatient. We've got to stay with it. It could be a real tight game.

We've just got to stay with it. I think that at times throughout the, you know, just going in the past, and I wasn't here, but I looked into it a little bit. It's just getting impatient at times and not committing to staying patient and, you know, take what they give you. That's it. And we got to, you know, we got to do a good job of that. I thought last time we played them here, we just opened it up too much.

And they, you know, capitalized on the chances. And I think more than anything, that's the biggest key tomorrow. And, of course, he's speaking of a very convincing 6-3 win last time they were here. Like, this is – I haven't watched a ton of Islanders. You've watched way more than me. But Horvat was going. Barzell was going.

Sorokin. They're better than the record. If that wasn't one of their better, more complete games, then I don't know what is. How about the game you went to, Borny? Complete game? I went to the worst performance by a hockey team in the NHL this year. I was on Long Island to watch Islanders-Sabres.

Buffalo had lost 13 straight on Long island and they beat him 701 oh my god so how do you go from looking so good against the toronto maple leafs to two days later losing to buffalo 7-1 i don't know remarkable i got tell me was that the same team they looked old and slow and disengaged it was pathetic i mean unhappy fans are there you know packed building for christmas everyone's in great mood just just an abomination but the point is they have been unhealthy they're getting healthier they have a good goalie some good d-man haven't been very good this year they can be okay so the islanders will be no pushover but bruby's right they are what they are they're gonna play in straight lines you know i find it so funny him being like oh i wasn't here but you know i kind

of looked at it and dug it like like the leafs narrative wasn't the most talked about thing for the last eight years ago i didn't come across it but i think it's funny that because i think over the last little bit they've definitely looked a little bit more like years past than they have to start this season. The problematic version of themselves? Well, I mean, like the odd man rush stuff. I mean, to start the year, Kipper, how many times did you say, they haven't given up an odd man rush? They haven't done this.

And it's just, it's totally flipped now. It's flipped. The underlying numbers are bad lately. Yeah. And for a while, though. Yeah, and for a while. For like December. yeah and for a while though yeah and for a while like for like december where we we have to go back to stolar's stealing one in new jersey back yeah no and so there is there was the thought that like

okay matthews will get healthy and he'll get back and the underlying numbers will improve and they'll start to progress in this in this because they were really hurt for a long time and then they got healthy and it hasn't been better uh all right so let's go to austin matthews because that's uh continually a hot story yeah he's skating he practiced with the team today he was included in a lot of things but he will not play tomorrow afternoon does that set him up for as early as thursday in long island or do they wait on the weekend against the boston bros but let's go to craig broovy for an update on austin matthews tomorrow he will not play you know but you know he did a good job in practice today i thought and i think he feels pretty good so we'll'll just go from there. That's all I really got for you on that.

All I really got for you is please, please, please. Don't ask me another one. Don't ask me another question about this. Not to do the Don Cherry thing, but like we could play the tape on that. Like we called that during the game. We said he wouldn't play. We were doing the Sabres game, right? And we said, you're not going to see him next game.

It was during the game we made that call. Laboring. and even before that we said don't play him yeah don't play him he doesn't look any better than he did before and then sure enough we're right back here not like they didn't notice either but it was visible is the point the point is it was not like this he got a random injury it's like he looked kind of bad for a few games leading up to step. Well, he, I mean, he never looked better, look better.

Like even from his return. I mean, he, was it the national game he came back in or the game at where he had the two goals when they reunited him with Marner and he had the amazing goal where he did the toe drag and at that moment, but outside of that, there weren't many Matthews.

When was he produced? He's really good. He can score in the power play. That's, that's what he does. Yeah. But I, I don't know. Like we talked about talked about this the last show i guess a week ago today right monday monday it's monday yeah that my concern level on this kipper asked what it was gordo

said what'd he say seven i just said ten yeah like i just went for it i went for it yeah i turned up i turned it up right up there with like a cut artery or something. Max fear. It's not getting better. And I could say, I could start by saying, hey, Sam, on a scale of one to ten. And he just yelled out ten. Ten. Ten.

You wouldn't even listen to the question. You just go ten. You're off or on. He's a light switch. He's not a dial. I'll go to ten and then i'll work my way back no i'll talk myself out of 10 but i think there is it's you know a 10 is a reasonable no it's not it's not 10 what sam 10 is like no but okay his his level of concern is legit because it's not like it's definitive knee sprain.

No, we should be very concerned. Two to four weeks or four to six weeks. We didn't see him get hit by a bus. He didn't get run over by the Zamboni. Which lends to the feeling of, and unconfirmed, that he may have some sort of back issue. Polio? What's going on right now?

Honestly, it's so vague that it is tough to talk about. So it's like, I don't, you're right. Discomfort. The only thing they've ever reported on him in his career was the wrist, right? I don't know. I just, I think. Discomfort.

He's not feeling great, you know? I mean, what else, what conclusion would you come up with? He's got to have a slipped disc or a hernia or something. I don't think, yeah, there doesn't seem to be that sense of panic. I just don't know how you can't be at an eight or a nine. Oh, sure. When you're a guy that is the focal point of your offense, a guy that's almost a 70-goal scorer,

gets hurt in preseason, misses preseason games, doesn't look the same, leaves, disappears, literally flies intercontinentally to Germany to get a world-renowned doctor to look at his back, comes back, plays, looks exactly the same as he did at the start of the year, takes a shot in the lower back, and then is gone again, and now we're doing the same dance. I don't start of the year. Takes a shot in the lower back and then is gone again. And now we're doing the same dance.

I don't know how it's not at a 10. Yeah, I mean, it's a real problem. It's a 10 if he comes back and he looks the same way. Well, how's he not going to look the same way? I don't know. Like, are you really feeling like, oh, another week off and he's back to 2021 Matthews? I guess we're arguing about semantics. Like, a 10 is like he's not going to come back. To me, it's like you're going to see him again.

He didn't die. It's just, are you going to see that real man strength that he has? Yeah, tough to imagine that he just finds it again. The bigger thing is that he seems tentative because of the discomfort. So what you're going to get is, who's a great shooter who otherwise isn't that effective? Cole Caulfield? Someone like that. You're going to get is who's a great shooter who otherwise isn't that effective? Cole Caulfield? Someone like that. You're going to get a good player back, but you're not going to get a Hart Trophy winner.

I think it's affected his quickness, too. Oh, it definitely has. Oh, yeah. It definitely has. So you're not even getting Cole Caulfield. Victor Olofsson? Who are you getting? So, I don't know.

I just, I think he's going to play. play he's gonna come back at some point here yeah but i'm concerned too i i am concerned for no other reason that it's if if it's something that's right out of training camp we are talking now three months yeah and so are we talking about the golden opportunity yes the golden opportunity can they be the mark stone team the kucherov team the patrick kane team can they do it wow it'd be the last year for it but because if the leafs did it that loophole oh yeah slam shut but gary's goons are kicking down the door and play them till march you can play them up till the four nations face off and then say, ah, we tried. It's just so you don't want them to not play for four months.

You play them the next few weeks. But are you trying to win a cup? Are you trying to win the integrity award? I just don't think that they're in a position where they know enough. Well, sorry to cut you off. No, it's fine it's we're not even at the halfway point you're you're really talking about shutting this guy down to like do you think that's that crazy to consider today i do i don't think it's time today right now yes like you have to go

through but it's on the radar you well i think it's a legit conversation if we get to that point what do we do and if you want to explore a conversation if he does shut down and we take one last uh chance of bringing him back in april then let's have a conversation on where we would focus our challenges to trade for somebody. I'll have that conversation, and I think we're going to have one right now. Impromptu, true or false? The Leafs have talked about this internally. You'd be crazy if you didn't.

You've got to chat. So true. You're not covering all your angles. You're not doing your job. You're not doing your due diligence if you haven't had that conversation. But there's got to be multiple failed attempts to return. Attempts to return. Thank you.

Attempts to return before you go down there. To now sit there and contemplate shutting them down now or the next week or two is, I think, nutso. So there is... Well, I agree with that. So what is the Four Nations break? It's like the 8th to the 22nd, I think. I think they play on the 8th, and I think they play on the 22nd.

What do you guys want to talk about during that time? Oh, God, Latvia. So they don't play for those two weeks. From the 22nd to March 7th, I believe, is the lead-up to trade deadline. You're going to have a two-week pocket in there to see him play and assess. Even if, to me, if he stays healthy over that two weeks

but he looks like he's looked, you'd say, what if we give him six weeks here to get to postseason? What if we just give him that rest? Five weeks, six weeks, and spend his money and go get JT Miller from Vancouver, who plays center for us if we need, wing if we want, has a little feist, a little playoff.

Guys, I'm just throwing stuff around here. I think they have a truly truly generational chance here with the way that it's looked they've never done anything like this in this generation of hockey and the way he's looked it's so easy to be like we're shutting him down you've already got the you've already got the alibi of him going to germany this is such a podcast conversation but that's true though you've got the you've literally have an alibi. He went to Germany to get this looked at. It is. It's what it is.

Like when Gary comes knocking on the door, be like, buddy, he was in Germany. I don't know. We're just throwing things around. No, listen. I think it's, if you're not Brad Tree Living, if you're not Brendan Shanahan, you're not doing your job, if you're not having alternative possibilities. Time goes fast. Really, really fast.

It's January in a moment here, and it's like 100 days till playoffs. Yeah. Not that far away. So the general feeling is that they're not looking at that type of move right now so you're looking for it they want a lesser help them with a lesser kind of depth centerman yannick gourd's name comes up a lot out of seattle i love them but it won't be still effective well and the price won't be that bad compared to what you were talking about moments ago with jt miller yeah so does austin now change that yeah the gourd thing's interesting specifically because of holmberg and camp at 2c for them. Like, Gord can at least do that and chip in some offense.

But, yeah, that would definitely change the math about who you're talking about and who you'd have to spend. So, let's say, to Sam's point, that they go out there and they get their $8 or $9 million player in JT Miller or Kadri, right? Yeah. You can talk about next year what does that do moving forward here John Tavares slide into easy so if you had in Sammy's perfect world next year Austin JT Miller and Tavares and does Tavares come in at three million million, not $7. Yeah.

Yeah. No, it's the only way you keep Tavares, right? He's either the centerman for the, I don't know, Ottawa Senators or something next year. National, probably. Yeah. But I think he really loves Ontario and his family. But if you did something like that, it certainly hurts his chances and leverage,

in which case he probably makes less money and still stays. He seems to really like it here. I'm not sure there's a, even if he stays something like that, it certainly hurts his chances and leverage, in which case he probably makes less money and still stays. He seems to really like it here. I'm not sure there's a, even if he stays for less money, there's a place for him because. Yeah, if you give Mitch 13 or whatever the number ends up being, and then you got to give Tavares, and now you've added Miller. You're right. You're handcuffed.

I'm not even thinking about necessarily numbers compared to, like at what point you say i gotta like i got a young player in minton that needs to find a third line sure role so if i commit uh commit to john tavaris as a third line centerman is minton now my fourth line guy for the next two years or three years because john will want us a two or three year deal He doesn't want to sign a one-year deal. Yeah, you're probably better off with the young guy. So many of those dynamics come into play here on whether you go plan A or plan B on what type of big-name guy you want and the price tag it'll command. You know, I love that Minton is in the American League right now,

and I've said this before. I think it's so good. You know, right now he's been back for five games. He's got, like, an empty netter and otherwise it's kind of pointless maybe it's two points um but it's not about points for him he's just getting some reps down there and at times i've been like should they call this guy back up like holmberg ain't doing it whatever he needs some time minton still needs time to be an everyday nhl guy okay i do like annie gourd though yeah i need scrap competitive good playoff guy yeah like that if they're not gonna go out there and do the to be an everyday NHL guy. Okay. I do like Andy Gord, though. Yeah, he's scrappy, competitive. Good playoff guy.

Yeah. If they're not going to go out there and do the big enchilada, that's a guy that I really do like the idea of. I think Leafs fans would love him. Okay, we'll take a quick break, and when we come back, we've got Luke Fox, Leaf NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. We'll get into Matthew's return, the workload on Joseph Wall, and perhaps even John Tavares' contract and what that could look like.

That and more when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Big opinions and in-depth conversations covering the Leafs, Jays, Raptors, and the NFL. The J.D. Bunkins Podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Sammy McKee closing out 2024. Got Luke Fox. What?

I ran into a Greek guy named Nick at the O'Connor Meat Market because they hello and he loved the show. Were you driving at the time? No. Okay, good. All right. Actually, I will say, I spent some time in Golf Town, too,

after the holiday. Oh, shocker. More Greeks there. And the place, for people who listen to our show, it's like a bunch of middle-aged white dudes. Oh, yeah. It's the sweet spot.

I, too, have been recognized at Golf Town. Yes. Thanks for all the listeners. It's encouraging. It is, for sure. sure all right is he out there luke fox or is he still opening up gifts yeah there he is uh santa good to you luke my biggest thing was golf town gift certificate i'm not just saying that to make for a smooth segue, but it sounds true. Should get us all a certificate from Golftown, shouldn't it? A sponsorship, maybe.

That would be nice. My putter's like 30 years old, and I haven't ever hit it well once, so I don't know why I'm holding on to it. The new one, though. I got to go there and get a new one. Yeah, absolutely. All right. I take it you've caught up to the leafs uh post christmas and uh

the feeling is that you know outside of maybe some inconsistencies in their game is is the feeling of austin matthews coming back any different from the nine games he took off is there more concern less concern what's the overall feeling from your your end For my end, I'd say there's more concern just because I don't think he ever quite looked right when he came back the first time after missing 11 games and going over to Munich and getting some special treatment. It's interesting because when he went away, Brad Treliving said, we want to nip this in the bud.

We're taking this prolonged break so that when he went away, Brad Treliving said, we want to nip this in the bud. We're taking this prolonged break so that when he comes back, he comes back 100%. And I don't know what you guys are seeing, but I don't know if there was one game where he looked totally back or totally 100%. This is a nagging thing. And he's not going to play again tomorrow in the matinee against the Islanders. So that'll be another five games.

I understand, like, you know, we're late December. The playoffs are a long ways away. It's smart to exercise caution. You don't want to rush him back. But the questions are now at least circulating in our minds. Is this guy going to participate in the Four Nations tournament? Should he? Is this going to be nagging all the way to the playoffs?

Is it going to hinder him there? So, you know, they're being cautious. He was back at practice today, but left a little bit early. They're going to ease him back in here at some point. And you just hope that whatever is ailing him is something he can manage and at the very least you hope he's ready to go in april yeah we uh we chewed that around a little bit of before the break and it is a top of the list of concerns for the leaf so one of the encouraging things about this leafs team i think is that there's so much potential when they're healthy

when they have all their guys and it's put together you can see a really strong team here one of the concerns also with that is Matthew Nyes who had his concussion missed some hockey came back and hasn't been the same version of himself since wanted to get your thoughts on his play the last couple weeks and and if you see anything that's visibly changed, because he's not producing at the level he was before the injury. Yeah, I don't think it's just the numbers. I don't think it's just the production. He looks a little bit more hesitant, and maybe that's because he's still feeling some pain.

We don't know. Or maybe, you know, you get rocked like that, and you lose a little bit of your edge. I mean, he's bounced back from this before, right? You get rocked like that, and you lose a little bit of your edge. I mean, he's bounced back from this before, right? Sam Bennett gave him a concussion when he was brand new to the league in the playoff series against the Lightning, and he managed to come back a better version of himself eventually. But he hasn't found his game.

Part of that might be he's been bouncing around, different linemates, different centermen. So there might be an element of that but he's on the top power play he's getting plenty of opportunity Craig Berube used an interesting word today speaking to reporters after practice he wanted him to be a bit more reckless and he's like I don't want him out there taking penalties but I want him going to the net I want want him finishing his checks. I think that hasn't been there as fiercely as it was early in the season. And again, it's fine. You know, it's 82 games. We saw him go through a lull last season and he picked it up as playoffs began.

I think it's okay if there's a lull in this game, but he has to pick it up and he has to start peaking again at the right time. It's hard to imagine again uh to bring this back without the the veteran presence right now of uh tavaris and patch ready right now because you know for pto man this guy is now sitting on the number one line with tavaris and marner and he's needed really needed on this hockey club oh absolutely he's needed. And it's kind of funny, right?

At training camp, we were debating, should he be taking a spot from a young guy? Does he even deserve it? Is his NHL career in jeopardy? Is it over? And now you don't want them dressing a lineup without him. He's become an integral part of the top six. And I just love how physical he is.

Every single night you watch this guy, Pacioretty's finishing a check on some guy where you're turning to the reporter next to you like, did you see that? Like, he's got a viciousness to him and good on him. The thing with Pacioretty, though, after they came back from the Christmas break, no one was more effusive in how much he needed those days off than Pacioretty.

And I think, A, it's age. B, he's all of a sudden playing a heavier game than he's probably ever played in his life. So, you know, and you throw in the Leafs have more back-to-backs than anybody, and it's taking a toll on the guy. So they're leaning on him a lot right now, and good on him. He's responded anybody and it's taking a toll on the guy so they're leaning on him a lot right now and good on him he's responded and he's played pretty well he's found chemistry with Tavares in particular but you don't want to lean on him for the whole rest of the second half of the season because I don't know if he'll have anything left when it matters yeah that's a that's

a fair point so I want to talk a little bit about defense because we we didn't get to it in the first half uh fun stat today from anthony patrilli um if the leafs d don't score tomorrow they will have gone the entire month of december without scoring a goal um in the month of december they got zero points from a defenseman on the power play so what what do they do about the lack of scoring from the back end compared to other good contending teams? It's a place where they really lack punch. Oh, absolutely.

And the irony is Oliver Ekman-Larsen was signed in part because Bradtree Living and the front office realized that they wanted more production from the back end. And I think he's been solid, but he's dipped a little bit, but he hasn't really been piling up the points. Morgan Riley started off pumping a few goals in, but he's kind of gone cold offensively. So the last game against the Capitals,

Riley blasted a one-timer from the point, and it took me off guard because I couldn't remember the last time he actually did that, even to keep the defense honest. They just don't shoot that much from the point. And they don't have the guys with the big bomb. But it is a problem. I think they have seven goals total from the defensemen in their lineup right now.

And you've got guys out there, individual defensemen, on teams with more than that. So it's a bit of an issue. They'll say they don't care who gets the goals as long as they come from somewhere. But this is a team that if you're missing guys in your top six especially, you want that offense to come from somewhere. There needs to be more from the back end. How much of that is guys wanting to play Brube's safer system where they pinch less

than they did under Keefe's system? But I think there's a healthy balance to find there, and they do need a bit more punch from guys like Riley and Ekman Larson in particular. Timmons, too. That's one of his strong suits, and he's not really producing a ton either. Right.

We're talking to Luke Fox, Leaf and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. Luke, it's almost as if for me right now the office would still be a bonus with this blue line but they are not and craig brew we touched on this about a week and a half ago two weeks ago they're not getting clean looks and breakouts anymore like at times it's uh it's unlike anything we saw in the first month and a half of the season. And Saturday night was one of those rare examples where the goaltending couldn't kind of fix a mistake when it did break down. What are you seeing out of their own zone that we didn't necessarily see for a month and a half?

Well, you hit the nail on the head, Nick. Like that cost them that Capitals game. It started with the first one. Dewar, just a brutal exit pass on the wrong side of his own blue line. Odd man rush the other way. Bang, it's in your net. The other one, they had possession, and they just couldn't get it clear. I don't know if it's the condensed schedule is taking a toll on them,

and they're getting a little bit of tired brain or something, but they've lost their details. And Brubé has been harping on that. He's been harping on good sticks. He's been harping on clean exits, you know, getting through the neutral zone, harder forecheck. And it seems to me at both ends of the ice, they're not exiting as quickly as they were early in the season when they had fresh legs and had some jump.

Maybe they were more inspired to impress the new coach and try to earn more ice time. And on the other end, I think their forecheck has gotten a little bit, I don't want to say lazier, but it's certainly not as effective. Going back to the Nyes conversation, that's an area where he needs to work at. And maybe it's just how overwhelming and demanding this style of play is.

You know, they're kind of trying to have a more Florida Panther-like style of play. And I remember going into the Panthers' room during their run, and some of the guys, like Sam Reinhardt said, it's an exhausting style of hockey to play for 82 games. We know we need to do it because that's going to give us playoff success, but it's hard to do it every night. And, you know, a lot of the games that the Leafs have lost is because they've lost some of

those details. They've lost some of the pace to their game. John Tavares was pointing out. So it's a tough one. And maybe in the back of their minds, they feel like they can turn this on later when it matters more. Right now, they're still amongst the leaders in the Atlantic. There isn't a sense of urgency.

Yeah, it does feel like this is like one of the first years. They're one of those teams that you're like, God, when they grind and they hit, they're going to be really tough to beat. But you just can't do it every single night. We can't do it well. So, you know, maybe that's one of the reasons why i feel better about not seeing them with a 700 winning percentage that they're kind of doing you know skimming along at 622 so with the way they're constructed right now uh camp is subbed

in for holmberg on that second line and the reason they're doing that is because they love the third line right now robertson kind of coming around uh bobby mcmahon has been awesome domi's coming so this is a some encouraging signs i think for the leafs that those three players seem to have found it a bit yeah absolutely i mean domi had a really rough first month and a half two months of the season like injury aside you could just tell they had lost confidence even in games where he doesn't get a point he has jump again he looks noticeable he looks like he's flying out there and feeling good and him and mcmahon have really found something i think robertson a bit less so uh but he's he's you know getting on the scoreboard as well but mcmahon for me has been a wonderful story and could

remember guys this was a healthy scratch in the season opener in Montreal. I remember sitting up in the Bell Centre and looking across, there's Bobby McMahon in a suit, like not a little bit sour for sure. You know, he signed a nice new contract extension, biggest one of his life, and he can't get in the opening night lineup. But now, you know, this guy is a force.

And his speed. The Leafs don't have a lot of fast guys. Bobby McMahon's speed works really well with Domi's vision. So I understand Berube not breaking up. I'm sure Nylander's like, I need Domi. I can't play with camp or home birth. But, you know, you do have a good thing with that third line. I'm fine with them keeping it together as long as they're running hot.

One more for me, luke and we'll let you go uh and that is the goaltending a month ago we were like talking about the leaf goaltending being as good as we've seen like in 20 years 25 years everything was humming sammy looked every day like he gave birth okay now it's i don't know proud what just like he just gave birth sam like you're a very proud mama okay now it's come down to earth a little bit stolars is out murray didn't have a very good game uh and got sent down probably to get more more games in in the american hockey league and now you got Joseph Wall. It's not a back-to-back scenario.

I'm sure the Leafs are hoping that he plays both games. But how critical are these next two games for Joseph Wall and where the goaltending goes from here on in? Forking the road a little bit for maybe the Leaf goaltending this week? Yeah, and Joseph Wall should see this as an opportunity because Anthony Stoller isn't coming back for a few more weeks still. Like, he's got to grab this thing. When Matt Murray goes in the net, I think the Leafs got to score four minimum.

Like, I don't have faith in him, and I'm sure they see it too, right? Like, after the game, Brube's like, I'm sure he'd like a couple back. Well, you can't you can't give up two bad ones that you want back every night so this is joseph wool's chance right the team is has invested in him he's got this window of opportunity to really take the net and run with it the question has always been about can he handle a heavy workload he hasn't done it yet january is the perfect month you know if he plays, then they don't have to rush Stoller's back before the four nations. Just you don't have a ton of back-to-backs.

I think there's only one in January. Just Joseph Wall, take it and run with it. The Leafs used to have the best team save percentage in the East. They've fallen in that regard since Stoller's went down. And some of that, most of is is probably murray but some of it is on wall he's he's been okay he hasn't been stellar he has another level to get to he's got you know the islanders who aren't you know uh offensive juggernaut by any means this is a good first step for him to get on the right track luke really appreciate it go back to playing with your

gifts i think right okay yeah i got another christmas dinner at my mother-in-law's oh Really appreciate it. Go back to playing with your gifts, I think. Right? Okay. Yeah. I got another Christmas dinner at my mother-in-law's. Oh, yeah. All right. Keep it going. Okay. Appreciate your time as always, man. Thanks for doing this. Luke Fox, Sportsnet.ca.

Take care. All right, proud mama. Where are you with the goaltending right now? It sucks. I love watching Stoller's. It doesn't take long, eh? He was happy a month ago. I remember that.

Stoller's was so good. Like, he was just so, so good and so fun to watch and such a great, exciting style and just good. He was good. Star. Like, he was a total star goalie, and he's disappeared, and I think you're seeing a bit of the workload way on wall. I don't think he's been bad by any stretch but he definitely hasn't been excellent kind of

like luke said and then matt murray i haven't enjoyed it through two i haven't enjoyed it i don't think a lot of fans have the margins are so thin but like you know when you've been down and out and you're working your way back a couple of bad goals that's enough for the next guy to get a chance yeah like i think those two games that I've seen from Murray, like I said earlier in our Leafs hour, I think it's time to try Hill to be again in the next back to back. Team save percentage, the Leafs seventh in the NHL right now. So still pretty good.

That is a kind of a mind blowing stat that the Leafs haven't got a goal from one defenseman all month. I know. that the Leafs haven't got a goal from one defenseman all month. I know. I mean, I know I've seen some of the stuff that you're working on for the broadcast tomorrow, but some of that Riley, you've got some question marks about? I do believe that the first guy that knows that stat is Morgan Riley. Yeah.

And there's such a fine line between coming to the rink and doing what the coach asks you to do and play safe and don't take any chances, but they need to generate offense, and that is Morgan's job. Yeah, you look at the other guys in the decor. He's the guy that is supposed to do it. He's got to find something here to kind of get it going. Yeah.

You know, there can be a little bit of an offensive guy in every pair, OEL or Timmons or Riley. It's almost like you need different rules for those guys where you say, you know, you can leave the blue line, go in circle in the offensive zone. I got one of those. His name's Willie Nylander.

Yeah. Different rules. He only left twice, but his, his power conversation for another day, by the way, different rules are crazy. Crazy. He hasn't scored a That's a conversation for another day, by the way. His power play different rules are crazy. Crazy.

He hasn't scored a goal in that second power play unit. And they're just like, stay. We don't know. Just let him do it. Anything he wants. All right. We're just getting warmed up here on our last show of the year. We go national next on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show.