Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Is Samsonov Back?

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with an uncharacteristic 1-0 win for the Leafs over the Jets and Samsonov's miraculous resurgence. Is his stellar play sustainable? Or are the Leafs better off with the low-maintenance Martin Jones in the backup spot when Woll returns? Then, more on the game - the team's slow start, the lack of secondary scoring and Keefe benching the stars on the power play. Finally, Sportsnets' Luke Gazdic (33:14) weighs in on Keefe's benching decision, Nick Robertson earning more trust and whether Reaves could get back into the lineup.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

it's go time for the real kipper and born show justin born sammy mckee eric brandeo general nick and yours truly nick kiprios for the next two hours it's gonna be a good, good show today. I don't know. I'm feeling it. I feel underdressed. Well, I'm sorry.

You guys did not get the memo today. Um, you look like a million box, but well, I don't know about a million. You look really Canadian or us. Uh, Canadian league minimum at the very tonight.

After the show, I will be joining the Toronto Maple Leafs for a night with the blue and white. Brought to you by Rogers, of course. And all proceeds go into the MLSC Foundation. Just a quick shout out to this foundation because they do an unbelievable job closing in, I guess, on $75 million. That's money that's been raised and going right back into Ontario.

They do an amazing job of empowering youth and changing lives, building facilities, and playing a small part with the Leaf alumni tonight on what should be a great night. Now, will you be dealing a little three-card Monty tonight? Yeah. What am I expecting out of you? It has got a casino kind of Rory, no, what is it, 20s? Roaring 20s.

Roaring 20s. I thought you were saying Rory Macro. No, no. But I don't know. I may be watching over a couple of crap tables. Listen, you got to get the money out of the people's pockets somehow. And if that's what you got to do, you do it. Hide all the aces in the deck and play blackjack.

Well, wherever you're watching and listening, Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6. We're glad you are with us on this edition uh leaf edition hour of the real kipper and born show of course we're going to get into the details of what we saw last night between the winnipeg jets and the toronto maple leafs but you got to start with the biggest story of last night and that is of course elia samson of uh posting his second shout outout of the season, 32 saves. And since coming back from his stint, his break, his demotion, I don't know what you want to call it, clearing waivers, he's gone 2-1 with a 1.31 goals against average and a save percentage of 944.

Now, small sample size, but raise your hands whoever saw this coming. No, not going to be raising mine. You? My hand is firmly by my side, fellas. No, not at all. Okay, then raise your hand

if you believe again. Well, that's a bigger conversation. Okay, all right, let's have that. Okay, and that's not just... You can't really answer that with a hand. That might not be just a yes or no quick answer here. But you want to go to his soundbite first before we dive into this,

or do you want to have a few thoughts yourself right now? No, no, let's get the human vibe out of the gates here. All right, for our first Kippers Clipper, let's give it to the man of the hour last night, goaltender Ilya Samsonov. Clip one. Jeopardy music, please. And...

You got it, Sammy? I'm just... Do we... Do you want me to read it? No, I think we have it, don't we? Derek, is it not in... Oh, maybe I put it in the wrong... Okay, carry on.

All right. Okay, it's really just summing up three words. No, here. Which is? Sammy, am I going to... It should be in the folder there for you now derek and uh you should be able to let her rip all right try this again i mean i can't look this good like not have the clip how i said you know like i almost cry you know like it's my time is fancy it's loud you know like uh

it's important for me you know like uh a long time I didn't listen to this. Yeah, this is huge. You know, like, thank you. Thank you again for all the fans. It's really hard not to have a soft spot for this guy. I agree. I agree. He's a really genuine guy in these interviews, and he seems to be trying to say the right things.

He even, you know, when asked about, like, the big save, the 2-1-0, he was like, I just try to stay in the moment. You know, he's saying say the right things uh he even you know when asked about like the big save the 2-1-0 he was like i just try to stay in the moment you know he's saying all the right things but i almost cried as a nice little yeah it's been a it's been a journey yeah i think it's easy to feel this way now when he's playing well right you know like i don't think anyone was feeling like oh you know it's nice to good for him feeling good for him when he's playing like crap i don't think i could talk about both sides of my mouth. Like I was never going to miss him again if they never played him again. I would say, but we've always enjoyed his candor.

And the one thing I do respect the most from Samsonov is his, you know, some people get bent out of shape about media people talking about athletes talking to the media. But the fact that English isn't his first language, and regardless of the situation, if they ask him to go in front of the media. But the fact that English isn't his first language, and regardless of the situation,

if they ask him to go in front of the media, he goes out there and he does it. Yeah. And it's not his first language, and he clearly, like, the way he talks, and he just gets through it, he does it. He looks you in the eye, he tells you what. That does matter to me.

So that part of it I get, but, you know, I probably wouldn't be talking this way if he wasn't. If he gave up six last yeah fair enough what is clear out of the get-go since his return is just his demeanor his physical presence in that looks much different than what we've seen coming out of training camp and then the battle to regain that look that he had last year, losing the net, not square to the shooter. Well, you know, Kip, we talked about the over-pushing that he was doing, like over-desperation, whatever.

Great example is the 2-on-0 save, where the first one, and he's pushing across to make it. Typically, when he was playing poorly, he'd have pushed himself into the corner, and he wouldn't be near the crease to make the second save so as much as the two on oh is a little bit of luck involved that's i mean a pretty good tactical save he stayed in the net what happened down there on that play no oh just for him to fix it for him to be gone for was a week and come out like is it just the mental health getting away from the whole situation well yeah is that what it is well first of all like i'm the first one to sit there and say the one thing that i question is are the toronto maple leafs going about this the

right way to to to put them in the minors to have them them clear waivers. Of course, for all of us who have experienced that, and I have, the number one thing there is how do you handle it? Where is your ego checked in all of this? Right. And some guys can dig themselves deeper into a hole, and then some guys can get themselves out. So, you know, I tip my hat off to the leafs or their coaching staff or whoever's behind those decisions to say as of now at least it looks like you made

the right decision that you just had to get him in a place between his ears more importantly on anything technical or physical now let me just play devil's advocate here and say you know the last two games he's played where he's played very well he played seattle without seattle's best players and seattle's not a very good offensive team winnipeg jets pretty good offensive team but they're without their best offensive players and shifley morrissey for most of the game velarde so you're playing two very neutered offenses. He made some great saves, not taking anything away from him. I'm just saying it's not the same as playing Vancouver, Edmonton, Boston, Florida.

Fair, very fair. And to me, you know, you answer that question about raise your hand if you think he's back. And, like, I am not even close to ready to go there. No. But I think what you can kind of sell yourself on is that he's back enough that he can be a capable NHL goaltender where it's like, you know, you can have a 9.05 save percentage

and just be like around league average as opposed to the literal worst goalie in the league. Okay. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on his thoughts on Ilya Samsonov. Clip two, Derek. Perfect. It was excellent, Derek. Perfect. It was excellent from start to finish. He was good early in the game when they were shooting the puck

from everywhere on the sides, and he was great there. And then he was obviously great when the few high-end chances that they had, he was terrific. So just another building block for him where he just looks as confident as ever. great when you know the the few high-end chances that they had he was he was terrific so just another building block for him where he just looks uh as confident as ever so i've got an article up on sportsnet.ca some leaf thoughts you can't have leaf thoughts article without talking about samsonov and here was the conclusion i reached there you know with samsonov you're trying to get to the point where you can consider keeping him in the NHL on your roster going to playoffs.

That's the ceiling for him. Can you keep him around? And I'll say this about him. Joseph Wohl is injury prone. And this team, if they're going to win a round or two, is going to have to get white-hot goaltending. Like just the way they currently are, they're not good enough to not win without getting really good goaltending.

Samsonov's ceiling is high. And this is a reminder that the best version of him is a very good goalie. Some guys can't get to these levels. So as a backup, if Wall were to get hurt, I don't hate the idea of having a guy who could go in and get hot for you. I don't disagree with you, especially when you ask yourself the question of what's your alternative. Right.

And the answer is nothing. Well, Marty Jones will give you his. He'll stop most of the pucks, but nothing like Samsonov's unbelievable game. If you can get more looks like you did last night, then it's not even a contest between Martin Jones and Ilya Samsonov. Which is crazy, right? Like two weeks ago, Jones was a 930 for the Leafs or whatever, and this guy was in the minors. It's almost like goaltending is super volatile.

You've always known that about Martin Jones or Reimer or some of these other guys that have been around a long time now. They've got windows where they can hit high levels for two weeks, but they always come back to earth. Always. Yeah. Do you think Samsonov is different in that he can sustain it? The feeling when you made an offer him to stay and he ends up signing the qualifier at 3-2,

is that he is more capable of looking like a number one goalie in the NHL. So they've waited a long time for him to get back to that place. He's off to a good start since coming from a stint with the Marlies. So he's going to get that chance once more moving forward. Yeah, and like, you know, your mojo in the crease kind of works like your golf game, right? Like sometimes you're not sure what's different. You just kind of have it.

Yeah. And the only thing that I'm reminded of here is, and I used to do this when I played, like I could look at every one of my teammates or I can judge from afar on anyone else and just go, high maintenance, low maintenance, right? And you love the low maintenance guys. Samsonov's an incredibly high maintenance guy.

Look what you've had to do To get him here Yeah but that's about his performance right? No it's about everything It's just about getting him to a place Where you hope that you didn't need So much of an effort To get him there

Saying the right things Giving him breaks Giving him days off, all of it. It's just he's a high-maintenance guy. And just think about the work that he's had to do now. Can he hold it? Can he hold it? Like there's some guys that can just hit high levels,

and you just don't have to worry about them. You don't have to stroke them. You don't have to stroke them. You don't have to kick them in the ass. They just go out there and they just can do it. Yes. Yay, Morgan Riley. Can Samsonov now be kind of just, you know, left alone? Or is he a guy that you got to constantly remind to focus,

to not let bad thoughts coming into your head? Or is he fine now right it's the ultimate like is samson off high maintenance or low maintenance i think the answer to that question is do you know who hanu toyvenin is you do okay then he's high maintenance you know like the fact that i know that name which is the ahl goaltending coach's name like that's it's become a story with this guy so yeah he he's taking a little bit of and that's probably why you know on the other side of that is why martin jones keeps getting chances with these teams where he's not that great right because he's low maintenance does his job

goes in there and he's like you know he's not gonna be great but he's not gonna be coming off the ice like it's he's on death's doorstep every time he has a bad game this isn't something that has just dropped on the leaf's lap here if you've watched Samsonov's career and what has had happened in Washington, if I had to ask anybody in the Washington organization, is Samsonov high-maintenance or low-maintenance, what do you think they would say? Yeah, he's here.

He's here in Toronto for a reason. They let him go. First-round pick. They let him walk out the door as an unrestricted free agent. Nobody was restricted free agent, and they non-tendered him, right? That's what makes you an unrestricted free agent, right? When you don't get tendered, you become free to walk out the door. Baseball term.

Maybe I'm getting bleeding in here. But anyways. No. They did not qualify him, which made him free to leave. That's signing with the toronto maple leaves yeah but you know if he can just now if the leaves can now just not worry about him moving forward and you feel like he's off and running then that's great but if this is gonna be an ongoing thing then it it gets difficult it it sucks a lot of energy out of you well it just might have to because you don't know that Joseph Wall

is going to come back and be great either. I'm far from convinced. Yeah. I'll say right now. Like, I loved last night. Thought he was excellent. So, clearly, it's progress since he's come up. And you want him to go on Saturday, right?

Absolutely. How can you not? All right. Samsonov, of course, saying last night that he almost cried from the reaction from the fans. So I ask you, did 19 other guys almost make Leaf fans cry last night? Yeah, I wouldn't say Sheldon loves all of it. Do you want to start with the coach here and get his take?

Sure, let's do that. Overview of the game, please. Clip one. We couldn't actually get past it. Didn't have a lot of life. Didn't have a lot of energy. Didn't have a lot of energy. Didn't have a lot of legs. Oh.

You know, now that we've won the game and everything, to me it looked like a team that was still on the plane and still on the West Coast. Like that's what it looked and felt like. You talk about it, right? I think that's a little overblown, that whole thing. But sometimes it does catch up to you. And that's what it looked like to her tonight tonight so we get out of here with two points um liked how we did

stay with it and you know we had to kill some penalties there at the end and uh find a way to get the second point um get out of here we'll get uh three sleeps before we can before we play again and uh expect us to be a lot better, as I'm sure they will be when they get in their building. He's talking about, I think that can be overblown. I think he's talking about the theory that teams coming off a long road trip come home and usually pee down their leg a little bit.

Yeah. But they did a little bit. I mean, him saying that he doesn't really subscribe to that theory is pretty rich because the Leafs exclusively do it. They've done it. They do it every trip. I know a ton of teams do, but the Leafs specifically feel like they do it every single time, and they did it at that first period last night.

They got outshot 16-4 in the first. It wasn't even the shot total to me. It was just the carelessness with the puck, the turnovers. For the first 10 minutes, it was unbelievable. I bet you they had 10 turnovers in the first 10 minutes. Let's see, the game one, yeah, the first period, the high danger chances, they created one. So to me, that was part of the story,

was that the Leafs, when they don't have their legs, they just can't create at the other end. So yeah, you're on your heels a lot, but they just got nothing going offensively. Today, I wrote my article in the Toronto Star today talking about the Leafs and where they are and how it's looking like they're kind of just caught in the middle a little bit here

on maybe forecasting the tough decisions that have to be made, I think, from a management team. But the other thing I wrote is it's like watching a cartoon cartoon character with a a leaky boat yeah stick his finger in one hole only to see another one yeah come up for sure and it's almost the feeling like that coming out of the game last night is wow we got our goaltending thing going and now we can't do this yeah you, you know, you're not wrong. I think that's the hockey season.

I know the best teams have seasons, you know, where it's like it's relatively smooth, but for most teams, it's a little bit of plug the hole as you go sort of thing. You know, they equine out against a pretty good team last night. The big thing, Kev, if you're talking about holes, and Sam, I thought you had a really good sort of quote tweet. Kevin Papetti had the tweet about the depth scoring. And like, you know, you're looking for depth scoring on this team.

You cannot pay Bertuzzi and Tavares $16.5 million to get no goals for the last three weeks. It's been no goals in 13 for Bertuzzi and no goals in 10. Read the whole list for their depth scoring. Yeah, so this is from Kevin Papetti. It's a good tweet. Kemp has zero goals in his for Bertuzzi and no goals in 10. Read the whole list for their depth scoring. Yeah, so this is from Kevin Pappetti. It's a good tweet. Kampf has zero goals in his last 19 games. Gregor has zero goals in his last 17.

Nye, zero in 14. Bertuzzi, zero in 13. Tavares, zero in 10. Jarnkrog, zero in nine. Domi, zero in six and one in his last 16. Yeah, that's not a good list. How have they won any games? How have they won ever?

And so you talk about the hole you're trying to plug like now it's an offensive thing where it's like i know some of those guys can play offensively but the whole the whole shift in the offseason was from like the more defensive grunt bottom six to having like the more offensively minded bottom six yeah when you bring in guys like bertuzzi who's not supposed to be bottom six but you get what i'm saying domiomi, Gregor, these kind of guys, and they're giving them nothing. So then enter Nick Robertson, I guess.

Yeah. Okay, we're going to tie into the Nick Robertson conversation around the second biggest story of the night after Samsonov, and that is the benching of the stars. Yeah. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe first on that. Obviously

they make a mistake in that spot, and you know, it's a chance for me to hold them accountable and get some other guys involved to go out and do the job for us, but those guys, as we all know, those guys have been excellent for us, and they carry the mail

a lot of times for us, and tonight I made a mistake and and others had to get a chance they've been excellent for us and they're they're my friends and i like them they made a mistake and it's all good and we're all good right everyone's cool we're all cool you think he's overdoing that shouldn't he just say listen that that's what's going to happen from here on out yeah we're going to play a talking clip later in the show. They stunk. They were bad. We put them back on the ace because they're good, usually.

I loved it. I loved it. You guys know I've been calling for this for a very long time. I know. I know. And it was the perfect opportunity when they got the power play right away after. Yeah. And he's just like, you're not going out there.

Yeah. And I texted multiple people quickly. I'm like, there's no way that first unit can start they didn't start with a good call and then when holmberg comes over the boards i'm like oh my god like it was it should here's what i'll say it shouldn't be this stunning that this far into the whatever keith tenure that they missed the power play but it was stunning i just i don't understand that why it's taken him this long and like i agree can you like is half a season enough now to train them to be more accountable when they've been absolutely running his show for the last four years yeah that's a great question well but it is a better late than never you know like yes it may i agree that it would have been better sooner but like they willie gets to do whatever he wants out there no argument no argument which is not much he's such a

touchy topic because like you know i think back to the vancouver game to the absolute non-back check on garland and did we work the next night against seattle and he gets passed by riley and the guy riley's trying to catch on the back check like there he has this tendency to his game right but this is again for for the guys last night that's a minute and 50 on a power play where you're dead dog tired but you want to go down one more time to and we're going to hear from Drew Doughty and you know how I feel about getting your cookies.

It's just a sign that you want to stay out there and get your points. Yeah. I do want to say that like none of the 2-on-0 conversation happens. I know everyone's mad that Matthews and Marner changed which I don't have those two in the same. Matthews changed. I know everyone's mad that Matthews and Marner changed, which I don't have those two in the same. Matthews

changed. Marner was the one that knocked it out of the air that slowed it down. Well, he did and then he went to the bench after that. The Matthews change I actually had no problem with. They dumped it in the offensive zone. They're in on the four check. He's getting off the change. No, it's not the change.

It's the minute and 50. Of course it is. I totally, totally agree. And so I'm saying, people are saying, oh, these guys didn't back check. They changed. It's the shift length, which is ridiculous, which their coach was all over them about right away. The gif, I did some mouth reading. Two minutes.

Two effing minutes. And we're going to give that poop up? Yeah. With some redacted comments. So again, it's the time of the power play where there was nothing happening. And Connor Timmons. Where was he going? Where is he going?

Where were you going? He's the only defenseman on the ice. There's multiple players in front of him. And he's just slowly creeping forward towards the puck like it's a one by three inch black hole what would you say you do here you know what have if he those guys aren't there they just successfully ice it or he's playing a two-on-one at worst it's brutal from timmins you know if they can just score in the first minute on a power play, they could avoid all of this.

What is wrong with this power play that should look like Colorado's or Tampa Bay's? Why are they running a power play where Morgan Riley is in the corner? What is that? Yeah. You know, we talked about should bertuzzi uh replace tavarez why don't you just if you're not going to use morgan as a defenseman you're just going to tuck him in the corner to try to play well taking the puck out of mitch martyr's hands we're we're going

back to just put five forwards yeah give up more two on those well i don't know you're not scoring i can't by the way i don't think they should go five forwards i just think morgan if he's gonna be out there should play the top i think you got to go back to like the reason why you went and got klingberg because you thought he could come in and take over a power play from that back end yeah and i'm okay with the idea that if you want that so badly that neil andrew can be it but then you just have to go five forwards to me watching it it's just you know there's a lot of things where they're trying to reinvent the wheel which i don't agree with i mean with riley being in all these different weird spots

but there's just no urgency yeah they're like they're going to be out there the full two minutes and there's just no speed to it. There's no pace to it. It's just, we're going to be out here for two minutes. Let's work for our chance. Create two units. We know when it comes to Morgan Riley, you love him

for so many good reasons. But one of them is not that he's got this cannon of a shot and he's just going to overpower you like a Bouchard in Edmonton. They don't have that guy. Nor do I think he's an elite distributor from there. Well, I don't think anybody's an elite distributor right now with the exception of Marner.

We continue to see Marner make great passes. I don't think he gets enough touches on the power play to do his thing. There's sometimes I look up and he's trying to screen a goalie or have a deflection. Put him at the top. That's not where I want Marner. Marner should touch the puck two to one of everyone else on the power play. So now if Marner's standing in front of the net waiting to redirect something,

who is the elite passer then? Again, you know how I felt about this for a long time, is that between Tavares and Matthews, and now Willie, who wants to shoot the puck every chance he gets. What was that one, that wrister from the top of the circle, right? It's not, we don't need that. so if everybody's got a shoot first mentality who's passing the puck

yeah it's morgan and mitch supposed to there's just it just doesn't look as like remotely as crisp as nathan mckinnon ranton in kucherov brady braden point like they should be moving the puck like them yeah i mean it's not something they have done well they are great shooters and their power play has been in the top of their second last year maybe even first a year before that like it's never looked consistent and there are times when we can watch a power play and go, they did everything but put the puck in the net. Yeah, but also Kip, it has been shut down in the playoffs. So not last year,

their first round against Tampa Bay, but in previous years, it had shut down badly. But good power plays, they already know what they're going to do with the puck before they get the puck. And that's not written in stone because you've got to make necessary adjustments on the coverage.

But it just seems like everybody has that, if I get the puck, my first thought is to shoot. And if it's not there, then now I'm really going to think about my options. Well, yeah, and then it's, you're right. Then it's just like give it to someone else who's stationary. It's just too slow. Now you're dusting it off,

and now you're giving the PK an additional second to make adjustments, and then it looks like molasses coming down a tree. Not to mention the entries, which is a lot of like trying to force pucks back to a drop when you just got to take what's given to you and go forward sometimes. They did make an adjustment on that in this game when they have they had 15 turnovers trying to turn it back

when every team knows that's coming right um we have sheldon actually on the power play why don't we get the coach's thoughts today is not a good day for me to assess anything because i just it was just not we were not ourselves today that's why all i can go to's why all I can go to is travel and the road trip and all those kind of things, coming back home here. Because I thought even through Vancouver and Seattle, like those last two games, we were far more connected. Not necessarily in the power play, but just our overall game. Today, coming off of yesterday's practice, I thought the power play looked great. I thought I did really good work with Guy yesterday. I thought the power play, but just our overall game. Today, coming off of yesterday's practice, I thought the power play looked great.

I thought I did really good work with Guy yesterday. I thought the power play looked great. I was actually excited to watch the power play today because of the work that they had put in yesterday. But once I saw how we were playing in the game, I wanted nothing to do with the power play because I had a feeling it was going to look like that, unfortunately. I got to tell you, I love that assessment.

I love how he covered both sides. No, that he said, that's not us. Sometimes you have to know what games to just throw away. That's not how we're typically going to look. I think he should come down harder

on the power play. If you're already there with their length of shifts, then go all in and just say what you don't like about it and what needs, I mean, within reason. But don't, I don't know, to sit there and say that there's something that you like about that power play, to me. Well, no, he liked the way they practiced going into the game.

And he loved to mention Guy's name. Yeah, he did kind of submarine old gee i thought they're working great with gee who does this power he's been doing a great job right he how often is he i mean he mentioned his name a lot earlier in the season that's that's the first time i've heard in a while good for you because that one went right over my head he's working on the power play so really good work with key yesterday which robertson yeah which brings up to over three minutes of power play time i don't know if nick robertson's ever seen three minutes in the nhl on a power play before my guess is he didn't max domey i think just had under three minutes so what are the odds now that

even if the big boys get a sense of urgency here that it doesn't go back to just being the norm now where these guys go back to being a minute and 45, a minute 50 Saturday night. Will we see Nick Robertson more on a second unit where they go a minute, a minute and 10? I don't want to see a minute. 10 seconds left on the power play. I don't want to see a minute, a minute, whatever, and then Nick Robertson's unit.

I want to see this unit do better. That's what I want to see. So you a minute, whatever, and then Nick Robertson's unit. I want to see this unit do better. That's what I want to see. So you just... That's Cole Borny? Hey, go big or go home. Well, no, I have no problem with some tweaks, but like, you know... I'm sorry, if it looks as bad as it has

the last little while, one minute and get your ass to the bench. Yeah, the Nick Robertson point, I know we've got to get to Gaz here, but I want him to play with Matthews and Marner for like three games. Three, maybe five

games. I got no problem with that. Why not? At this point. He hasn't done anything. Holmberg hasn't done anything. Bertuzzi hasn't done anything. This guy shot the puck in the net seven times, four times in the last seven games. He's, you know, give him a chance. Yeah. Matthews seems to pass it to him to him which is a weird thing to say but he seems to defer here and there matthew's passing very weird the one thing you got to remember though is over the last few years whatever they've tried there they've you know go back to nick ritchie, go back to anybody. Bigger bodies that can handle the boards,

go get the puck, drive the net, create holes at 5'9". I'm not sure what you think he can do besides shoot it in the net eventually. I think it's January, and I think this is not when you're getting teams best, and I think you have no depth scoring,

and I think you're just like maybe this guy. Just give me a chance. Maybe there's a little way. Just give me a chance. And if he heats up and his price goes up, love it. You know, if it doesn't, instead of trying to trade an AHL guy, you say, look, he's been in our top six. We've really liked him this year.

He's got four goals in his past seven games. He's really getting hot. I don't know. I mean, at this point, why not? He's worked hard, in his past seven games. He's really getting hot. I don't know. I mean, at this point, why not? He's worked hard, played hard, can score. Okay, we'll take a quick break here, and we'll ask Luke Gastek, who joins us, a Sportsnet hockey analyst, former National Hockey Leaguer.

We'll ask him his thoughts on Nick Robertson getting bumped up to the big line. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Bourne. We're back after these words. Your daily dose of everything NFL. It's the Fan Checkdown with Matt Marchese and Donovan Bennett. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Real Kipper and Bourne Show.

We welcome in Luke Gazdek, who worked the game between Winnipeg and Toronto last night for Sportsnet. Get his thoughts. Luke, how are you, bud? Thanks for joining us. Good, Kip. Barney, how are you bud thanks for joining us good kip barney how you guys doing today all right are we uh people need to critique a win is a win just a win two points let's move on from last night uh is that what you took out of it or uh besides samsonov or where do you want to start oh where do you want to start honestly i'll yeah i'll take the positive man is close close zero zero game the whole way um i'll take the positive out of that that they played in a close game and finally i know it had to get to regulation but finally got the job done

uh that's a positive but there were certainly a number of things that weren't great but man i had a coach tell us when i was young uh he never liked to get after us when we win i i generally hate critiquing after after wins because at the end of the day you get the two points but there were definitely a couple things that we can have a chat about yeah like uh maybe the power play was something that we talked a little bit about i would say um watching you guys in the broadcast last night you you had some commentary on the power play, you know, not being sure about the time and place for the benching. You know, what are your thoughts today as we wake up looking at that unit and, you know,

the decision by Sheldon Keefe to sit those guys down then? Yeah, I mean, this is an interesting one. I am, first and foremost, I'm very very uh on the side that players should be held accountable not necessarily for for their play but for their effort i i'm a big proponent in that i i think guys should be held accountable no matter what place you are in the lineup um i understand that if you want to set an example that's probably the place to do it on a power play. Get them where it hurts, I guess, if that's what Sheldon's thinking. That's the biggest spotlight and the biggest opportunity to do it.

I just don't personally agree with it in the sense that this is a 0-0 game. You have your 38-goal score on the bench. Power play has been a little cold, but is that the right time and place to flex your muscle and uh preach accountability in that spot i know that's a tough it's a tough spot for him uh but i didn't necessarily agree with the timing to be honest i mean that could have been their last power play of the game like are at the end of the day are you are you willing to flex your muscle more

or, like, are you trying to win this hockey game? That's the thing for me. It's kind of a lose-lose, to be honest, because I get that he wants to do this, but I didn't love the timing. But doesn't the timing, Luke, give you a sense of how pissed off your head coach is that you're willing in a critical game at

zero zero. Like doesn't the message come across that much stronger that you would be willing to risk the game to send this message than doing it when you're up for nothing against San Jose. Yeah. Honestly, Kip, I think this is a bigger conversation.

I look at the team across the ice that they're playing against last night in the winnipeg jets and i know bonus is fairly hard on them especially in the media after he has called out his players before has called out his team before in a very emotional way but when have you ever heard of rick bonus having to bench shifley connor ehlers and take them off the power play in the middle of the game he's done it with tavarez domi camp now and now the top line like when have you ever heard i'd understand the media scenes a little a little less there in winnipeg but he's not having to sit down his guys in the first place for effort because effort isn't a question with the Winnipeg Jets.

They might not play well every night. The offense might not be there, but effort is one thing you can't question with that team. You'll call them out after, possibly get mad at them in the room, but he doesn't have to sit them down. So I almost think this is a bigger conversation of where is, where's the effort. I just,

I I'm not one to critique top players, but I just know that it's a privilege to play on the power play in the NHL. And I think guys forget that sometimes guys get a little comfortable. And that's what I saw last night was just guys that look comfortable and they look, they don't look like there's going to be any actions to their consequences. Or consequences to their actions, sorry.

Yeah. You know, one guy who did last night probably appreciate getting some power play time was Nick Robertson. He's a guy we were talking a little bit about earlier in the show. I think he played, did he say three minutes last night in the power play? Over three minutes, yeah. Over three minutes on the power play, which i don't know that he's ever spent that the rest of his career combined you know i i kind of feel like they got to give this guy a

little bit of run gas i don't know like he's he's one of the only depth scoring guys they have what do you think about just trying to find some more offense from within and maybe opening up an opportunity to a guy like robertson i mean i like the player i i do believe they're showcasing him a little bit right now and giving him more more than he's had for that reason but i do like the player i love that he got out in ot i i think that's a that's a perfect spot to use them a little bit on the power play i'm glad he shot the puck a little more last night he was firing from everywhere but i spent my career coming in and out of the lineup as a fourth line guy it is not an easy thing to do and i can do it and i did it as a depth player energy guy wasn't expected to

produce too much offense had to scrap more often than not but for us i would say more skilled guy like that like a guy that's job is probably to put up numbers coming in and out of the lineup is not an easy thing to do so i feel for him in that way like he hasn't been put in a great spot i also i will say with the caveat that he hasn't done himself too many favors but i think he's earned the opportunity to get a pretty good look here to to maybe maximize some more um some more outcome out of them look uh coming out of training camp it just seemed like the two main question marks were was the depth on the blue line and of course can the goaltending hold up uh right now you're probably still asking that question,

but outside of Samsonov's heroic effort last night. But where else do you see the concerns now going between after the All-Star break to the trade deadline for the Toronto Maple Leafs? Well, man, Borny, I think you mentioned it in your article today the depth scoring on forward is scary and to have i mean i cover a lot of edmonton i've seen this team for the past number of years rely on 97 and 29 to drag them back into hockey games and now you're seeing a team out west that's getting scoring from all up and down their lineup and it it's equated to a 14-game win streak. And you look at all the guys that aren't scoring down the lineup,

all the way down to Noah Greger on the fourth line. I don't know why I picked him as an example. He's just one of the guys that hasn't scored in a while. And I think everyone thought that it was going to be on the back end and the goaltending, which it has been. But offense was never their issue. They didn't have a problem scoring goals. And yes, it still was majorly from the core four,

but it's a concern to me to not have scoring from anywhere else in your lineup. I've just, I've seen, I know I equate to them again, I just cover them a lot, but I've seen an Oilers team that tried that formula for years and it doesn't work. I just cover them a lot, but I've seen an Oilers team that tried that formula for years, and it doesn't work. It just doesn't work. You need a little bit of a more balanced attack,

especially at home when you have last change and you have another line that you know can score. It makes it that much more of a two-, three-pronged attack. That's definitely a concern for me, but their blue line needs work. I think that's first and foremost what Trees should probably be going after, but the lack of scoring up front is a bit of a concern. Are you surprised that with the lack of scoring,

with them not getting any offense from down there, that they don't plug Ryan Reeves back in and just let this guy try to find his footing again, given he's on a three-year contract and was there brought in for a purpose once upon a time yeah really honestly what's the biggest reason why is it is skating what yeah it's his and i should be the guy that's sitting here that played a very similar role that he does and i should be on his side saying let's get this guy in the lineup and see what he has but I just the skating's not there and it sucks to say because he's got two more years past

this but um what I knew when I I was done I don't want to equate this too much to me but when when you're not even fast enough to get to your checks so when we we go back to his St. Louis days, he was 8 to 10 hits a game when he was in there. When you're not even catching up to your checks, and then when you get to your check, if you can't get back, it's a tough player to use. In today's day and age, players are so less intimidated. These young kids and the nick cousins of the league

they don't care anymore if like ryan reeves is in the lineup and it's it's so disappointing to even say because i it event like it kind of pushed me out of it but they just they don't care about looking over the ice and seeing that ryan reeves is there anymore that intimidation factor is so lost in today's game that I think that was the one thing he had working for him, and it's just not as big of a part of the game today. And I wish he would have come in and in his first 10, 12 games had a couple points, had a couple goals,

and then you can make the argument. But I mean the numbers and the underlying stuff speaks for itself, Borny. Just one more thought on that. And I don't disagree with you guys at all in terms of just, it just seems some guys can separate themselves from that. Oh, that's not my job and I'll just keep doing what I'm doing here.

But is there not an opportunity for some of the kids today to come out of junior college and kind of reinvent a little bit of that? Because if you're Brad Tree living in the Toronto Maple Leafs and you're that desperate for Ryan Reeves, why wouldn't I be a young kid to try to just find a way to kind of reinvent a role with old and new?

100%. I would be scouting, looking for guys. I don't know if I should have even gotten drafted to Dallas in the first place, but I was there for a reason and a role, and I worked my way up from the East Coast to the AHL to the NHL, and I just feel like there's players out there, there's still players out there that can play the Brady Kachuk, Tom Wilson, maybe not be as huge and big as fast as them, that can play depth roles,

throw out some PTO invites to camp. But yeah, you just see less and less of it. It's more of an attitude thing though, Kip. My last year in the AHL in San Diego, average age on the team was 21 and a half. And I couldn't believe the way that players came in instantly with entitlement, talked to their coaches, talked to their teammates.

There was maybe one or two kids. Sammy Steele is one that comes to mind that I just remember thinking, what a great kid. This guy, good head on his shoulders, confident, quiet. Then there are the other five or six that walk around like they've been in the league for 10 years. So for me, it's more of an attitude thing. The guys don't even want to do that anymore.

But there's still players out there, and I hope we see a couple throwbacks come up through the pipe soon because the old guard is turning over. Don't even get me started on that conversation. We can do a two-hour show just on that alone. Oh, I miss it. I miss it. Well, look, really appreciate your time coming on our show.

You're welcome anytime, pal. Keep up the great work. Thanks, guys. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Luke Gastic, Sportsnet hockey analyst. So what are they going to do with Revo? Yeah.

Well, they didn't have to make any decision. We assume that Bertuzzi's continuing on his leave of absence off the roster. Maybe his wife is continuing to give birth. Who knows? Maybe it'll be the world's longest birth havoc. Will they have to clear room once Bertuzzi comes? I think there are 23 active players on the roster. I think something would have to happen, yeah.

So presumably in the next day or two, they'll waive someone. I don't know if my puck drops Saturday, I would imagine. I got to think they'd be as comfortable of, of him clearing waivers as they were weeks ago with Samson off. And the other side of that is just, were someone to claim him, they'd be like, okay,

that's great. And listen, I just want to reiterate one more time here. I get Brad tree living, signed him to a three-year contract, but it was always with the thought that if you had to bury it in the Marlies, you can with a minimal hit on your cap, which means that you can cover almost all of it. You just didn't expect it by January 1st.

You can bury 1.1, did you say? Yeah, 1.15, I think. Yeah. So it's not that big of a deal, everyone. Well, and even if you said to a team that has a bunch of cap space or contracts or whatever, hey, you know, will you just take this guy and play him on your AHL team? You know, we'll give you a seventh or something.

I'm sure you could arrange something. Yeah. What are you giving away, Sammy, on our show? Big one today, fellas. From February 1st to the 3rd, the All-Stars are in Toronto for the NHL All-Star Weekend and we'll be giving away tickets to the different events and episodes today and tomorrow. Today we have tickets for the 2024 Rogers NHL All-Star Game, the hottest event in Toronto with Matthews, McDavid, Crosby, and all the league's best players descending on Scotiabank

Arena. Really appreciate the read, put Crosby in that list. That's very nice. To enter for a chance to win, text in today's code word, which is ROGERS, to 590-590. We'll have one last code word in tomorrow's episode, so be sure to tune in. Today's code word again is ROGERS, fellas. Boy. How much time do you think the person who comes up with code names spent last night thinking about the code name?

They nailed it today. Oh, my gosh. They looked up and they're like, oh, that word on the building. They saw the side of the building and said, oh, I got a great idea. It's kind of like when you have to send someone money and come up with a word. It's a struggle. I mean, if you're still sending money, here's a PSA.

If you don't have auto deposit on an e-transfer, you're a psycho. But if you don't, you better believe you're answering the most embarrassing question of all time. When I put it in there, like you're getting something you got to answer, you're not happy with it. Yeah, fair enough. I like that rule. I know we're going to talk about this tomorrow as well, but is there a chance the Leafs can come out of Winnipeg, Winnipeg with three or four points?

Three is not out of the question. Samsonov could do it. If he's Sammy again like he was last night. Well, and can I just say, all this talk about, oh, the depth guys aren't scoring, the depth guys aren't scoring. These are not bad hockey players who are done scoring for their career. Tavares isn't depth, buddy. No.

Neither is Bertuzzi. That's what I'm saying. They're not done. Yeah. Like, Tavares had seven shots last night. He was actually by fancy stats. He just needs a bounce. By fancy stats.

He was their best expected goals for a guy and has been on several occasions who expected the goals well apparently john he shot the puck but it's coming it's coming so yes maybe they have a game led by gregor and whoever else is on this team you just want to get one or two in before the all-star break what are they off eight days nine days long for our show i think it's the 27th to the fifth they're gonna you got to get off the schneid here stay tuned for our show. I think it's the 27th to the 5th place. They're going to, you got to get off the schneid here. Stay tuned for our Seattle Kraken Hour next week. All right.

Thanks to Luke Gastic for joining us in this hour. We're back on the national show. PJ Stock, former NHLer, will join us. Of course, the big story tonight, Patrick Waugh back in Montreal. We'll get PJ's thoughts when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne.