Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Is This a Season Worth Saving?

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 3-2 loss to the Chicago Blackhawks on Saturday, Toronto's fifth straight loss. They get into the Leafs' elevated effort despite the loss, Joseph Woll's return to the ice, power play struggles and Easton Cowan's heavy workload. Then, they discuss whether the Leafs should take drastic action — be it a coaching shake-up or a trade — to attempt to salvage the season. Later, they look at the defensive lines at practice with Troy Stecher drawing in for Philippe Myers and Brandon Carlo being moved to the IR, and they chat about William Nylander's quiet last couple of games after being called out in practice by Craig Berube.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Hope everyone's well rested and ready for a terrific week here on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Sammy, don't be shaking your head. It's way too early for that. Glad you're aboard alongside Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo and David Sis, boom, bah. It is the Leaf Hour edition of our program. We are live. on Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590 the fan in Toronto, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus, also available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. It is our Leaf Hour edition,

which means we've got exactly 59 minutes to fix the Toronto Maple Leafs. Justin, you go first. Did you fix them in your article? You got a sportsnet.ca, can I, can you repeat the title of your article, please? Yeah, if you go to sportsnet.com, the first article you'll see is, is this maple leaf season beyond saving by Justin Bourne. Can I ask you on a scale of one to 10 in September, if I would have said the odds of you writing that title, mid-November, you would have told me... I mean, no chance.

No chance. Two at a 10. Two out of ten. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But hey, guys, I'm just trying to be realistic about the conversation around the Toronto Maple Leafs last night. Sammy, you played hockey last night.

You said that the boys are talking about it. It's the biggest conversation amongst Leaves Nation. No question. Do we want to get into your article now? Or do you just let's recap Saturday night, what we saw Saturday night because it was a game that was winnable for the Toronto Maple Leafs, only to give up a late third period goal. and hand the Maple Leafs their fifth

straight loss. Sammy, you and JD did post game Leafs. J.B. you want to start? And let me know I don't know, do there were some positives, believe it or not?

I thought they played well. You know, I thought they played well for what they have right now, right? The roster's a little thin and oftentimes they've been so talented that when they play well, they win. That was a night where boy they played pretty decent and you know had a few chances that didn't go in cowan get a tough tip at the end there one of those nights where i think it puts who they are into better perspective where you go gosh

pretty good effort still wasn't good enough and it's disheartening certainly the injuries play into that but it uh it was disheartening i do think that when you've lost five in a row and they've a lot of them have looked like crap your moral victory meter kind of if it's the first loss and you look great that's one thing but when it's your fifth loss in a row and your season seems like it's teetering there's no room for really moral victories and like i thought there was a ton of positives i think the number one positive was how good wall looked i thought you know that cowen waw nais line had some moments they played with the puck a ton but at the end of the day you lose you don't accumulate any points and you look at the eastern conference standings and there's a buffalo sabers between you

and the basement so yeah and you also hate to be in a situation where you go ah didn't quite get the balance, it didn't quite go our way against Chicago. I understand they're better, but they're still not great. For me, Saturday night is, again, just right at the core of the surface a better effort.

They played harder. There was a sense of urgency on many shifts. It was a winnable game. Unfortunately, years past, if they would have had a game like that, they would have found a way to get a point guaranteed.

And probably with the likes of Matthews, Nealander, Tavaris, and Marner at their best, they would have found a way to get the second point in overtime. Wouldn't it had to be at their best? And that's... They were often at their worst in overtime and they still found a way to do it because of... Yeah, many nights that the talent just took over.

Totally. But that's not the case. Again, the effort for me was there, which really reflects on how many nights I've, I've watched them so far where the effort wasn't there like that, which is in itself kind of alarming that you've needed almost 20 games to get there. You know, so that's a positive for me. But it comes back now to Chicago as well.

I thought, guys, Chicago was sloppy. Yeah. They were sloppy, and they did not manage the puck well. All indications from people that I talked to was that that was one of their worst games of the season. For Chicago. Yeah, for Chicago. And yet, the Leafs couldn't find a way to get a point. Yeah, I mean, it was one of those games where I look at those fancy numbers after the game

and the Leafs did lead in high danger chances. I was going to say, they might have a ton of great chances. Yeah, I mean, Cowan himself had. Roberts had a couple of misses, too. So to the point we've been making, they used to talent their way through those games and didn't have, obviously, they don't have Mariner anymore, didn't have Matthews in the lineup. And it just didn't happen for them. And so when you're kind of relying on them to figure it out in other ways right now,

that hasn't come easy. Joseph Wall gave him every chance to win. And boy, five in a row now. Where do you guys want to start with? This stat right here that right off the top, the one that I put in here from SportsNet stats, the most regulation losses to teams that missed the playoffs last season this year. The Toronto Maple Leafs have lost seven games in regulations to teams that have missed the playoffs last year.

Most in the league by far. You know, it's funny. You know who's actually tied for second? The Panthers. I opened my article with basically pushing back on the idea. You know how coaches would be like, there's no easy games in this league? When you say the schedule is easy, there's no easy games. It's like, okay, there's no easy games, but there's hard ones.

And they haven't played the hard ones yet. You know, they have a stretch in January where they go back to back, Colorado, Utah, next day in Vegas, next day in Winnipeg. That's a six-day span against, you know, they haven't done that yet. That's great for the tank. Take it easy, take it easy. All right, let's go to Craig Bruby on, on the blown lead and perhaps what they need to do to correct it.

Because last year we were excellent at it. And right now it's like, you know, we're just a little bit unconfident, you know, I'd say right now, you know, but got to get through that because we've got the leads and we have an opportunity to close this game out and win it. And, you know, we get a power play in the third. We don't do anything with it either. Leavesworth 32-0-0 when leading a lot. after two periods with Joseph Wolan Nett

prior to that game. So they had been very good in those spots in the past. This is one of their strengths last year. Anything on the power play, obviously we got Craig Broomie to talk about it, but like it stinks.

What don't you like? Entries, support, and just again, overall quickness. It's just, it just lacks. They don't move the puck fast. They don't move the puck fast enough.

But, I mean, that was a complaint of ours in years past, too. When they had all the talented guys out there, they still wouldn't move it quick enough. And it still, it just feels like they're not snapping it. You want to hear Ruby? Sure. All right. Yeah. Clip three.

You know, we had possession on, I think it was a second P.P. First Pee, they did a good job at their stand. And, you know, the second one, we started putting it behind them and going to work, and we got the puck back. And we got the puck back. And we had good position. possession. I didn't see enough, you know, attempts to the net, you know, from my standpoint. And the third

power play, we just, there's no execution on it. No execution. The thing that drove me crazy is they get that, we can talk about it later, maybe after the break, it's not that big a deal, but that high stick where they go on their reviewer, right? And they end up calling it inconclusive or whatever the call in the ice is confirmed.

And so the lease come out of that. They go up to one, and it's like they get this they get this power play I'm like this is such a great chance young team who's flustered after giving up this you know getting a goal that they didn't think should have counted you go out there and you score make it three one and you just kind of bury them make them go away

and they just can't even gain the zone it's just like that's such an opportunity where teams that are really good like the oilers or these teams that are really great on the power play they get that power play and they go out there and they just bury a team I'd be curious to know how many so he talks about you know they're doing a good job with their stand,

which means, like, at the blue line, you know, forcing them to dump it in or put it in behind them. And he says, we were putting it in, we are getting it back. I'd be curious how many great power play entry teams dump it and get it back. We suck.

We haven't forechecked. We haven't done anything. Really the best teams have an elite player. Marner used to do it for the Leafs. Neelander can do it, which should be their whole breakout. Should be give it to Willie. He should, but he doesn't.

And he can't do it with any consistency at all. They're forcing. him to the middle of the ice, then he's trying to stick him through three guys. That's it. If it's not Nylander, they have no one. Matthews, that's not his forte. Tavares, please just stick them in front of the net

and he'll find a way to get a stick on it. That's his strength, but he cannot carry a puck and he cannot gain an entry. So who's left? Yeah, I just don't see a world where the plan, though, becomes dump it in, you know, on the power play. Like, sometimes you got it. Sometimes the stand is good and you got to chip

it in behind him and go get it. The other, problem with the way that they break the puck out so right now they do the double drop or whatever they often have the last guy up the ice never forgive eucanin and for breaking that over i know he'll never forgive so he's the last guy up the ice with the puck and everyone else has stopped at the blue so if you want to put it in and chase it everyone's flat footed if you want to be a dump team you got to bring guys back come up at five you know or stretch one guy but they just they don't have a power play breakout that works with being a dump it in team so i'm sure marks of arnold sort that at some point.

Cowan. Yeah. I said I wouldn't be surprised to see them up in a week. Obviously, the injuries are there, no question about that. But they need them. They need them, which is kind of a sad thing to say because it doesn't come with controlling the environment. You're kind of just throwing them a little bit to the wolves here

and saying, I hope you can. can help us and that's not what you really want to do with first round picks in their first season in the NHL you know what's tough about it is he does so many things where you're like they need that guy like he gets in on it he's got energy and he gets chances and he can see the ice and make plays and he just does things too where you're like he's a young kid in the NHL and he's going to make mistakes so you have to play this guy who's going to make mistakes like he had three or four grade A chances, for sure. Beed Spencer Knight clean, puck rolls off the toe of a stick.

But those are actually normal reactions to a rookie in the NHL going through something for the first time. Like 99.9.9 guys in their first year, they're going to feel anxious. That's all that was. A year and a half from now, you give them four of those grade A chances. He's bearing two. Guaranteed. but it's not happening in his rookie year and in the environment that he's in

only exasperates the whole scenario for him. Can it be something where he's comfortable by April? No, I don't think so. No? Listen, maybe, but are they in the playoffs? Are they chasing a playoff spot? Are they out and done? Do you not think that they're a playoff team?

There's a better chance of relaxing if they're seven points out of a playoff spot by March. So that's the crux of my article is, you know. Can I just, before you move past Cowan? Bonkus and I talked about this on Saturday night and took some heat for one of our takes about this. Like, the leaves have given every single star they've ever had first on pick every single opportunity and every single thing

where it's just like it's created this culture of, for lack of a better term, entitlement, in terms of one of the issues we've had over the 10 years with this team. And they're doing it again, different this time, out of necessity. But like, should Easton be on the first power play unit?

Should Easton Cowan be the, like, the sixth attacker in a game that you have to have? Like, Brube thinks he's one of his six best forwards, clearly, because he's deploying him like that. And Bruby doesn't care about development. Burubi doesn't care about any of this stuff because Brubay needs to keep his job. Bruby needs to get wins and he thinks it's one of their six best fours.

It just feels like it's way too much too soon and they're leaning way too hard on him. That's how I feel about it. You're going to ruin them. It scares me. You're not wrong, but you just answered your question. He's not, Bruby's not in a position now to think about the development and the perfect development of Easton Cowan over, God, I need some wins. Just put Machelli on the top unit. Like, I know you don't like it.

No, no, no, Cowan's better than him. Now. I don't know if I agree. Not on the top power play unit. I don't know if I agree with that. I agree with Kip. I think, you know, just by pure meritocracy, he's better than a lot of these guys.

And it's like, you know. It's more of an indictment on the lease than it is on the coach. I think so. And I truly believe in the NHL, it's not the development league. It's the win league. I get it. You know, and so it's like if you are better than him today,

like I don't know. I know that we know the best way to develop guys. I don't know that we know. It's fair. You know, what's best or whatever? And it's like, if you help us today, you're here. And the same thing should go when an old veteran guy is like, well, he's been around. Like, well, he's not one of their 12 best.

So see you later. You know, you're talking with Elise D-Corps like that. Well, maybe we are. Maybe you're remote to turn the page to that. I just worry that he's just getting everything right away again. I will say, he seems to have a mentality for it. your top picks, which he is, there is a sense of entitlement.

They get 10 more chances than a guy like me who had to come in undrafted and was never supposed to be there in the first place. I get it. So it's the way it works over the course of probably history. Your top picks are supposed to be guys that are going to eventually take over the nucleus of the hockey club and hopefully lead you to the promised land.

That's what they want out of Cowan. but they're just pushing them a little bit harder now because they have to. It's a worthwhile thing to bring up, though, because we could be sitting here in two years and Cowan's not, you know, they haven't made the playoffs and Cowan's not where you hoped it was and you go, boy, he doesn't skate that hard

or, you know, maybe he's too much too soon. You know, it's possible we get there. I certainly hope not. Yeah. What else did you have in your article? Well, the idea is, right now, what you hear from a lot of people is, should the Leafs make a major trade, right?

Should you go get Rasmus Anderson? Should you go, you know, flip this guy for that or whatever? And as we've talked about, and you did a great job on our Leafs broadcast last Thursday of showing, have Buccalon to show us what they have to trade. And they don't. And so right now they're 15th in the East, and I know that sounds dramatic because obviously two wins or something

and you're like third. But they're pretty far down. And if you trade something and you get 2% better, and now you've traded future assets and all you are is good enough to just misplay up. officer to get smoked in the first round what's the point why would you do that right so i was tried to look at the season and just be like is this is it still there for this group is it worth firing the coach or is the group just not good enough i do not see Craig barrube going anywhere this year okay

and i don't see brad tree living uh going anywhere this this season i think i think they're in it until the end of the year. And then we'll see where the chips are. Yeah. I basically wrote that it's been one and a half seasons, less than a half, one and a third seasons for Craig Barubi. And in his first year, they won the Atlantic Division with 108 points and went as deep as they have in the second round.

It's been 20 games, you know, this year, not even. So I can't see them saying it's not good enough. We're going to pay you out $10 million and starting over. I think Doug McLean made a great point on our off-the-rails Friday. It's, okay, Pete DeBoer. Everybody thinks Pete DeBore is going to come in here and save this. I can't, I don't see it. It's still the same players.

There's, there's some issues going on with their lineup right now. And it's just, they're embarrassing themselves. It's just maybe right now, as Doug alluded to, it's just not on the coach. It's just not X's and O's or it's execution. I think they've got. issues with their speed like the two guys that have stuck out for me more than anybody so far in the last two weeks is nick robinson and mcmann agree tell me why they're flying thank you yeah because they can skate and the rest of them kind of look like they're in in quicksand i got

to tell you losing my mind seeing all these trade proposals out there and people are like you could for mcman you could get it's like hold on no he's like the only guy you can skate he makes one point three relax so frege who does a wonderful job one headlines, obviously that there's, you know, smoke, there's fire at the Leafs and it's like the biggest team and everybody wants to know. So he goes on there and he's like, well, they're not interested in dealing the futures, and they're not going to deal into their core players, but like everybody else is like, well, who the hell is going to trade for anybody else on the Leafs?

It's like they have professional scouts. They're watching this team. It's like the whole reason the Leafs are where they are is because of those two things that you're not willing to, like their stars have been good and the future. which is Eastern Cowan, has been really good. And outside of that, it's like, it hasn't been good. So who's going to trade for... Max don't me.

Flexil. Yarn croak. Really? Yeah. What are you going to get? What is left? Joshua, Carlo, like, that's the, those are the names that come up.

Carlos is the most of the name to come up. We got a better shot of seeing that John Beecher, who's now on waivers in a Toronto Maple Leaf uniform by the weekend. Yeah. Go claim him. and I don't know him well enough but I can tell you one thing I think I can skate

I'm interested okay yeah and he plays center okay we got Domi Quillan Lorenz and once upon a time he was a 30th pick overall yeah yeah how old he I will be I will be shocked if the Leafs don't claim him you heard it here first

but I mean well where are they on the waiver priority will they get a chance that's a good question the beach we've stayed I'm getting hot. Four or five teams ahead of them. He used it on Stitcher. Like, look at their center ice tonight. Tavares, Domi, Quillan, which I don't mind that guy.

When I watch him, he kind of reminds me of that Steve's, who happens to be in Boston, where they love him. Right. Kind of reminds me. Yeah, yeah, high praise. I couldn't. He said Quillin kind of reminds me of Steve doesn't make me feel like, oh, well, good. I couldn't pick Steve out of a lot of out. No, he's not bad either.

He just doesn't move the needle in a way that helps. Buddy, we are scraping the bottom of the barrel right now. I'm just throwing stuff at you. You're telling me Willie can't play center compared to some of these guys. You played it until he was 20 years old. They gave him nine seconds at it. You can't take Willie away from Tavares.

You can't. Dynamic duo. All right. Yeah, they're just lighten it off. You can't. They are. Yeah. Except Willie hasn't had two straight games.

No shots for Willie. Yeah, it's not. ideal uh okay today what was the mood like today sammy uh practice some f bombs i we watched i showed both you guys our uh internal feed here

of uh of leave's practice of kragueba coaching yes we never really got to let me or anyone else answer is the season oh yeah let's finish that corner says yeah oh please finish your article yeah should we have to wait for you to type it out no I just wanted to put a bow on the point that I think the season is worth saving. That I don't think they are as bad as the two of you do.

And that I think no one in the East is any good. I think Carolina... I did say that last week. I'm more confident that the rest of them have issues as well. Carolina's great. Jersey's pretty good. Their star center just got... I don't know.

Ginsued. Attacked by a wine glass. Slash up by Vince to New Jersey there. So who else is there? Boston's first in the Atlanta. Boston? Okay. Like there's enough talent on this Leafs team.

Matthews back, Tannav back, Lawton back, Waw back. Everything, you know, you get your goalies back in place. I feel like everyone's bad enough that they can still, they're still in the fight here. And they haven't found it yet. We said initially, be 20 games, let things sort themselves out. Everything's gone wrong that could go wrong. I do like the fact that you hope by the weekend. that leaf fans will get Stolars and Joseph Wall back together for the first time

and you can start there. Yes, absolutely start there. Some stability there, some look at what they had last year. Guys, the Leafs are four points out of third. You know, like it's... It's not the points, though. It's what you've seen so far out of them. I totally agree.

And I get that. It's the optics of what we've had to deal with for... 20 games now. Yeah. They have not had the puck very much. Somehow they generate expected goals at a high rate. I saw last week old that I know the somehow. They have the best five-on-five shooting percentage in the NHL.

Well, that's not it, though. It's they create chances. Like when they get in there and they have the puck, they still have talent. But here's the problem that I see in that. And this goes back to Willie, we can score goals. Yeah. Okay. Yes, you can score goals, but you can't defend them.

Now, you're telling me that you're going to, to keep doing what you're doing, but you're going to defend well. No, that's not the way it works. To defend well means that you're going to have to think a little bit differently on the offense because most often than not, when it comes to offense, there is a level of how much you cheat, how much you want to come back, how much you want to stay high. If you clean up your own zone like you're supposed to, the offense will take a bit of a hit. For sure.

Are you willing to do that? Or, like, you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's a great question, yeah. The offense will not be there if you start cleaning up your own end the way you're supposed to. I've never found that. You know what will happen if you clean it up? You'll have the puck a lot more and you'll get to play more in the offensive zone. These guys, they're so talented, but they've gotten away too long on the cheating part.

I've told you this. I've pounded this thing over the last few years. will he hanging high okay one guy but when i start seeing two or three or four of them now with the stretch passes and barubi was screaming at them today the gaps too wide yeah come back get on the wall be first on the wall win a battle on the wall all of that will affect their offense are they willing to do it yes and and i well that question i think is very much a question mark and maybe one that they're just not willing to do in which case you're just not willing to do in which case you're just not winners.

And that's fine. But I think there's enough here with this group to say, what are we going to do, fold up and rebuild? No. We start selling assets. No, that's why Broby's not going anywhere. Well, then there's a season here. Then you're saying, okay, how do we salvage this?

Max Domi is someone on the wrong side of the puck sometimes? You don't like that. Okay, well, is it Machelli? He's on the wrong side of the puck sometimes. You start going through it and say, we're going to get rid of a few guys. We're going to bring in, oh, David, camp no that's a bad example but you know bringing in a couple guys who play d and then i think

you got to figure out the defense what's going on back there no carlo tonight no carlo tomorrow or tomorrow night sorry uh do we have any idea can i like emotional reset i what it kind of feels like the end to me and that's very possible by the way i'm not concluding that it's not i'm saying the only direction you can go in from here is to try you're 100% right they will not mail it in i'm telling you they can't so they'd rather give up the seventh overall picked no no no no and try to make the playoffs and barely i i don't think that's the case either sam i think i think they well matthews isn't even skating yet so they lied to us about that so it's going to be a week he's not even on the ice yet carlo's now out law's out lawton's out boys

they're probably going to lose a few more in a row here to justin's point you you give the perception that you're not mailing it in but you do not you don't leverage the future which means they're going to trade bodies but maybe not in significantly meaningful ways a lot of waiver claims coming up throughout this year the beecher the beacher boys

and you do pray that wall and solars can pull back and be a top three tandem if you get 900 plus save percentage from both those guys if Austin Matthews can you even be the old guy he was before he left hurt and scores you 80 points but 40 of them are goals like you just start making progress towards something i'm not trying to build a cup contender for

you kepp i'm saying what are you going to do here you want to trade matthews that smile he's got to go not yet you think deadline you would do that now we're talking oh let's go now we're not ready that's the video game controller me where not quite ready to have that like seriously just get them back first of all just get them back on the ice well why do they have to be like this why does it be like as i don't i don't get the mystery on like this guy the last few years so it was boston game right was last two years no no like the boston game there they said oh boston oh i thought you're talking about boston in the playoffs.

I mean, there's been too many of those to remember. But it was Tuesday night against, so that's a week ago tomorrow. And they said the next day that, you know, it would be about a week, maybe less, as if I remember correctly, as what Brubay said.

And now they put him on IR, so he had to definitely miss those next two games. So those are the last two games that they played. And now we're going into tomorrow. He hasn't been on the ice yet, not at practice. Feels like it's going to be more than a week here. We're doing it.

it again, boys. We're officially doing it again. Yeah. We are, which is awesome. Love it. Crazy. But now same questions. Like just go back to a YouTube of us

a year ago and just play that. You wouldn't tell the difference between a year. I know people are like private with this stuff. It's just uncommon in professional sports. Because I personally am so, I don't care like just it's weird to not be like yeah my knee hurts yeah my groin hurts so my back hurts or whatever just waiting for that to get better i don't understand why it always goes like this with

him but i it's been always been private i mean the i think it was the turning point it's been talked about is when simmons asked him about the covid thing and then they reported that and he was upset about that privacy part being out and then ever since then he's been really secretive with it and i guess to each their own but man it's just it's it's it's frustrating as a fan and i have We had this conversation last year, I know. You got a contract for years. It's not like it's affecting negotiations or something. I don't get it.

It'd be nice to know. Because it feels like it's going to be longer than a week. No, it doesn't feel like that. It is. Real challenging on a game that you have to have tomorrow night against St. Louis. Like it's, you have to win. You know what killed me as I was driving in before you sent me the lineup today? And I was like, all I know is I liked that Nye's Wachowan role line.

Like they can skate. They're all, they're different players, but they all see the ice. and move it. I liked that line. And then you send me this and it's nice domy cow. And it's like, where's Waugh?

What's up with Waugh? Her upper body. He was, by the way, that might have been his best game of the year. He played 19 minutes. Did he really? Yeah. Which is no good.

He can't play 19 minutes. I know. Can't play 19 minutes. Yeah, yeah. Okay. And it's... Well, Tavares had to play 21 because they don't have... He is a bottom six forward.

He's just a bottom six forward that you hope that can check. when it comes down to it a team's top line in the playoffs but that's the problem everyone's not slotted correctly now it's a big issue

is that you're asking guys to do way more than they're supposed to and it's just it's hard when you look at this whole lineup right now and you're like okay Nick Robertson's a top winger on the team right now

and there's an article I read today that was like you can't trade this guy, that guy, whatever. Robertson is now, you know, plus value guy. You don't want to move. And I was like, what has happened? He's played eight or nine games up there.

He's still very much someone they could move, by the way. I know you don't want to. Well, I mean, like, if you're thinking about, okay, so you're going down the line of trading, you're trying to save this season. And they're like, yep, the core guys are out of question, future's out of the question. So I guess that would be like Nick Robertson would be in that conversation. What on earth are you hoping to get that's going to make you better than Robertson at this point? What you need is a body back that is not 5-9.

Of equal billing. So you're going to get a 20. How old is he? 24 or 23? Just turned 24, I think. Okay. So you need somebody under, you need under 25, probably in the $2 to $2.5 million range that isn't slow. First of all, so is that a forward?

Is that a forward or is that a defenseman? I don't know, but it's going to have to be a one-for-one. It certainly isn't a third-rounder or a fourth-rounder. You do not. There's nothing that's going to help Brad Tree Living. Now, that said, I would be okay with them. If you can upgrade that spot by taping a fourth or whatever to it, fine. You know, that to be-

But you need a body back. Yeah, you need a body back, for sure. All right, we take a quick break here, Sammy. I was just furiously searching for the tweet that I saw, and I can't find it, so I can't give the person credit, but I saw it over the weekend. It's like we didn't know that Nick Robertson would be having a great year on a bad team. We just didn't know that the least, it would be the Leafs.

Yeah, we always thought he'd be a great player on a bad team. Turns out he is. Just didn't know who was the Leafs. I scored 17 goals on a bad team. Don't knock it. There's no shame in it. Right? Don't knock it.

I always said this guy was built to score. 25 for Seattle or something. I just a quick note about that Saturday night. I love that goal he scored. Maybe it's my favorite goal he's ever scored in his career, where he just goes to net, beats a 6-9 guy to the spot, digs underneath him, pokes it in. I'm like, this guy's trying.

Yeah. Competing. It's nice. Yeah. I scored 20 on the 80-point leaves. I just bit my tongue off trying to. Let's just go to break. What are you going to say?

All right, we heard the guys. We'll take a quick break when we return more of real kill. and Bourne Leaf Edition. Plenty more on the table, including Joseph Wall being back and Stetcher. Is there a spot for him on the blue line? More than we return. Hey, it's Blake Murphy.

And I'm Matt Bonner. Join us weekday mornings at 11 as we break down all things Toronto Raptors. It's the Raptor show on Sportsnet 590, the fan. And wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Bill Kipprin-Borne Leaf Edition, our Nick Kipriot, Justin Boren,

Sammy McKee. All right, let's go back to your article. Relevant. Tell us more. Relevant to that. Bradford-Living, speaking with the media tomorrow. Yeah, that's a good call. Is it?

Yeah, for sure. At the end of the day, he's the guy. He's just no longer Brendan. It's him. and Keith Pelley and Craig Bruby is just they're the three guys. It'd be nice to hear from somebody. I think if you're a Leaf fan, it's okay. He could calm things down a little bit.

It could help. What could he possibly say? I don't know, but maybe it's more for his players than it is for you and your fans, your buddies. Yeah, I just, I don't know. There's just an obligation every so often to go there and speak, right? I think there's a sense of accountability when a guy speaks. Okay.

Yep. No, I'm just, I'm just, I understand that you have to do it. And I don't know what he could possibly say tomorrow. That's going to make anybody feel any better. The unsexiest answer right now for all this crap is that the least need to win. I know you guys know that. Need to win and maybe a couple games in a row and just breathe and let guys get healthy and just kind of let this thing come back.

But if you lose more games, I just don't know. You know, like there's this thing in Toronto where it almost like he has to show he's doing something. The blues tomorrow night against maybe one of the first or one of the worst teams out of the gate alongside Buffalo and Calgary. Are they not? They're down there. They're down there. That's my team, by the way. That's my sleeper team this season.

Now they're sleeping. Playing their role beautifully. St. Louis tomorrow night. Columbus Thursday. Yes. And then on the road. for seven or six

Montreal is Saturday Yeah So one more home game after tomorrow night Yeah and I think six road And then six consecutive on the road Think let me double check that Good they need something different Will that help?

They need this week They need this week Just make sure they don't go to that steakhouse in Chicago Yeah Don't go to the Chicago cut You'll get cut in Chicago They have One two three four

Five six games on the road including one in Florida and one in Carolina to finish it off. I mentioned Troy Stetcher being picked up on waivers on the weekend. Let's go to Craig Brubie on his thoughts on where Stetcher lies. What's that? I look at Troy just observations and now that you probably had a chance to chat with him. Yeah. Your impressions?

Yeah, good guy, you know, a solid guy. Character stands out to me, effort. You know, I thought he had a real good practice today. He said he plays with a chip on a shoulder. He does. But you probably enjoy that, don't you? Yeah, he plays hard. I mean, like I talk to you guys, he's a compete guy.

He competes on everything and plays a pretty simple game. Glowing, scouting report, great guy, great guy. When people say, what kind of hockey players say in McKee, they're like, great guy. Listen, right now, many Lee fans, I think, would take him over Myers. Yeah, poor Philippe Myers has not had a good year. They actually have a good clip on what happened to Myers. I think he got asked today, yeah, let's do that clip. Clip six on what happened to Phil Myers is here.

Yeah. You know, I think he came in last year in spots for us, you know, when we needed them. I think he's probably got over-extended this year a little bit with the injuries. But he definitely, you know, hasn't played the way he played last year. You know, so I think he just needs to get his game back in order a little bit. And, you know, because he's capable of doing it, we saw it. But I think it's just been a little bit of a long stretch here for him. It's interesting.

He said he hasn't, you know, the injuries, he's got over-exemptive. extended last year he played 1614 per game this year he's played 14 14 so I don't think he's doing any more at being asked we just played probably played more games this year in a row than he ever did last year how many games did he play last year 36 really yeah he's played 10 this year maybe last year he his partner was better Simone benoit's getting a bit of a pass for yeah pretty not very good yeah yeah yeah I think he leads the D and getting outright walked yeah so far this year I hated the visual Myers versus Nazar Saturday night where it's like that guy's half your size you know he's played 200 it's been up and down

played multiple teams i think i think he started off really well and certain for certain teams philadelphia Nashville i think Tampa and now Toronto and it just seems like he gets off to good starts he's impressive he's big because he can do everything so you look at him you go man he actually can shoot it he skates pretty good you're like talk yourself into it Yeah. And then it just seems to catch up to him. And I don't know if that's the case. If that's the case here.

I don't know. I mean, I've watched Stetcher here and there, but like what do you think he can? We should basically redo the conversation we just had off the air on him. So you've heard that like basically the reviews from people in Edmonton are. That he's just like, it's amazing that he's played this long in the league. But it's a lot of it's just pure guts and try hard and like compete, fan favorite type of guy.

Stetcher. Yeah, I got no problem. with that pickup. I mean, this is where you're at with the Leafs because we do know that there's nothing major coming down the pike here. So just bring a guy that can compete. Let's start there.

He is a former analytics darling that no longer drives possession, unfortunately, but, you know, has in the past been shown he's able to do it. Like he can snap a breakout pass though. Yeah. Used to or still can. Yeah.

We're at, we are at next man up. Yeah. Right? And that's why I think they should go to the waiver wire, like get somebody young and fast and competitive. That's where you got to go. You know, of all, when things are going bad, you tend to look for what might have been, what could have been.

It's so bad that I find myself being like, God, it'd be nice if they had Pontus Holmberg. Okay, we need a Willie conversation here. Okay. All right. Let's talk about the one that Craig Barubi started today at practice. So if you didn't hear, we don't have the actual audio, but Barubi was given it to the boys.

We started talking about a little bit in the first block. But basically, get to your spots on the break. You'll get back on the wall. If we don't have you on the wall, we're screwed. You can't help us break out. We're too high. We've talked about this over and over. And Willie is one of the guys they need to be on the wall.

a bit more, a bit better. We would have played it, but it doesn't really have the dramatic effect. They're able to have the 17 F-bombs. The Athletic, did you see that article today? I did. They talked a little bit. Can you pull it up for me? By chance, I think I sent it to you.

But it was based on today's practice, I believe. I've got it here. What do you need? Just how the athletic interpreted Craig Bruby with Willie today. Nothing skate with the puck. Ruby shouted at William Nealander after the team's leading score.

had his pass knocked down by Nathan Nyes during a 5-on-5 drill. He eyed Nealander all the way to the bench. Willie, you got to get to the wall. The least coach said another point in the practice. Bust your ass. Okay, that's a far cry from like, just leave Willie alone,

which basically he said last year. Totally. I mean, you talked with this last week. At some point, when it's always him hammering Willie Nealander, he's probably going to get sick of it. We're starting to see signs of Willie tiring of it, right? Just watching on the bench and seeing how often it is.

On the other hand, I don't believe that Willie is where the problems lie here, but I get why you want to make an example of a good player. There's a guy coming in on Tuesday night that can talk to him about how things went at the end. Cairo? Yeah. Sure, they won't be motivated. They don't know what's going on. Yeah

Tough time To see them Do you want to play the clip? Do you want to play the clip? Yeah let's hear this here is what Craig Ruby thought of Willie and the lack of shots We've seen in the last couple of games from Willie

Clip 7 I think he's He's generated it there I think he's Maybe looking to pass a little bit too much of times He's He's been passing quite a bit all year And obviously he's got a lot of assists

But we do need him to shoot for sure and you know power play needs to shoot but I think you know the power play's been running on his side and so he's looking to make more plays

but he also needs to shoot too so Rubis sounds tired boys yeah I think it's like we know we've had this perception of Willie

for many years and Willie's Willie and Willie can get away with a little bit more because he's Willie. Yeah, yeah. But I'm with you. It's wearing on Willie. Like he, especially with Marner gone, you hear him talking about Willie passing more.

I think Willie's, Willie thinks he's got to make up a little bit for the lack of creativity lost on Marner. And he's kind of caught right now. To me, I think he looks like a guy that is cool. and as chilled as he can come across, cool guy, wink with Brian Leslie going to the dressing room.

You see that one on Instagram? No, but I know it bothered you. It didn't bother me. I'm just like, what is that? We have a clip from Willie. You want to play his clip? No, really? Yeah.

This is about the mood around the team. This is a fantastic clip. Okay. Yeah, I mean, we're losing, but I think we're feeling positive. I mean, trending will play in the right direction. So, yeah, I mean, just keeps going for another month

from a different mood I wish I had to kneel in her jersey sometimes I love this guy A month! A month! Try Thursday! Yeah, this is a big deal really. Power play shot attempts this year. So Toronto Maple Leafs, he's been... Willie's played...

It's a great clip. It is good. We've played 16 games this year. Power play shot attempts. So John DeVars leads the team in 19 games with 14 shot attempts. So that means everyone else is less than that. Talk to me of what do you think Neelander has?

Shot attempts. 16 shots on goal. Sorry, 16 games, how many shots on goal? Oh, God. On the power play? On the power play. I think it's going to be shockingly low. Six, half a dozen?

Yes. I was going to say seven. The answer is six. Wow. You know who has more? Domi has eight. Nick Waugh has six as well. Morgan Riley has six as well.

These are all on the power play. These are all in the power play. I don't even remember. Well, having minutes. Like how the... Tavares, 14, Nyes, 14, Matthews 12. And then drops down to 8 with Domi, 6 with Nealander, Riley, and Waugh. So Nealander touches the puck, every power play.

Yeah. Multiple times. Yeah, I think he's under the gun here to create. Mm-hmm. Ed. He's only attempted tension. We're also talking about guys at the same time. Like, he's...

Tell me, it's like having one of the best hitters, you know, ahead of you. so you can see better pitches. I'm going back to baseball for you. It's protection. It's like having bulbish out right here. Oh, or Matthews, and Marner left him a little bit more room on the matchups. 100%. And now, that's not the case.

Yeah, see, people would argue this because he's on pace to... He's the first guy they circle. Yeah, he's... But I think it's special teams. But listen, he's not keeping that pace. We know that. It was a soft schedule, and they've played non-playoff teams, and they still found a way to cheat on a couple occasions.

I'm not saying all of his points are cheating. It's 26 in 16 games. Right? I know. It's good. It's good. It's good. It may have come at a cost too, right?

Defensively to my earlier point. Yeah. So if things start changing and we know offense dries up for many stars as it gets tighter and tighter. I know that it will too. I agree. But it's just, it's hard for me to be like, the problem the Leafs have is Willie gets too many points. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going there.

I'm just, I'm saying that there's, there's this fine line here that he's, he's, he knows he's got to be more now, more. Yeah. And it's affecting him. He has been more. He's on page for his most points ever. But I, I know what you're saying too. I get it. I need a 200 game, a foot game, Sam.

But how many times are we going to do this? It's just never going to happen. It's not one or the other. You have to find some responsibility here to be a $12 million player is just not about your cookies. But we're going to, listen, I totally agree and wish it would happen. But like, I don't want to talk about it because it's just never going to happen. It's never going to change.

Well, then we're going to have the same conversation. And Barubi's going to be screaming at him at practice, get back, get on the wall for the rest of the season. Well, maybe you should scream at some other guys, too. I made that point earlier. Maybe you could scream at Dakota Joshua has five shots and eight games in November. I'd like him to spread it around. Hey, if we are done with Willie,

I do want to talk with Joshua. Yeah. Joshua to me is the one guy. If I'm looking at this lineup today and I'm Dakota Joshua, I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, you just traded for me. Ahead of me is Robertson, Domi,

Quillen, Cowan, Machelli. I can't get, I'm on the fourth line. We have 32 injuries. Can I get a few minutes? Over $3 million. on the fourth line. I know. And I'll tell you what,

I'm fine with his last couple games. I know he doesn't have a lot of shots. I know he's not producing. He's not getting much opportunity. He was the wrong guy. He was the wrong guy. I agree. I agree.

You needed a Mason Marchment. Yep. You needed a Chris Kreider. Yes, yes, yes. You needed something. Impact. Okay, how about Genoa? Uh-huh.

Okay. Where is he in Boston now? Yeah. Is he any good? Could they have not used him? He makes a lot of money. He's like Posetta Plus. But he,

I take him over, would you trade for him right now and give up Joshua and Machelli? Yes. Oh, that's what, what's their total? Six million? Yeah. Come on. Yeah.

It's not that hard. Yeah. Anyway, he's not the answer. I totally agree. But if he's on the team, which he currently is, he shouldn't play 12 minutes on the fourth line tonight. Once again, we've proven on this show.

We've solved nothing. We're more problem identifiers, the fixers. Hey, that's the easiest job in hockey, identifying the problem and not coming up with any solution. That is the core of the Real Kipper and Bourne show. All right, on that note, we ask you to stick around for no apparent reason, but we go national next.

Renault Lavois is going to come on and give us all the scoops. Thank you.