Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: It's Not Different

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 6-1 loss to the Florida Panthers at home as the Cats now have a 3-2 series lead. They break down the game and reflect on the Core Four's playoff failures, why the top forwards struggle at this time of year, the general lack of compete and Mitch Marner's future in Toronto. Later, they get into how Game 6 might look and what lineup changes Craig Berube might make.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

I usually start this show with great vigor. Right? Welcome. It's a real Keper and born show and it's our leaf edition of our program. Restart. Let's do it. Let's have it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Live. Fire away. It's the real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on Sportset 360, Sportset plus streaming for listeners on the alt stream. Yeah. The alternate stream on sports.ca on the mainstream is the blue J's game, which is on Sportset 590, the fan as well well and then the other stuff you can say there you go sportsnet.ca sportsnet app and uploaded to all platforms and youtube as well so we're with you for the next two hours despite a blue jay game going on we're here for you leaf fans in our leaf hour edition of our program nick kiprios justin boranne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandale and

Jake the snake Schultz Coming in and we will try our best To come up with some explanation on what we thought would have been at the very least we we Weren't sure if there's gonna be a win involved or not But we'll try our best to explain what the heck we saw last night out of the Toronto Maple Leafs in a, whoa, is game five at home the last, what, Sammy, 20 years? I just updated yesterday, Scott. One in five.

One in six. One in six. Yeah, yeah. This reminds me of in, like, school or maybe was elementary school where you would Dissect something they'd be like here's owl, you know, dried owl poop frog. Yeah frog sure But with the usually with the owl poop, it was like here's a rat skull or here's a way You just used to pick through it and find random objects I don't know if you ever did that but no that's I feel like we're about to pick through the poop to find random objects

Here what I'm very jealous of people in their cars today They're just hearing the dulcet tones of Ben Schulman on the radio and the pitch outside It's a two one count on boba shit beautiful day at the dome Wide open sun is shining perfect day for baseball. Can you just what I wouldn't get it's really good That's what I just do that for the just- What I wouldn't give. That's really good. That's close to the box. Why don't you just do that for the next 55 minutes for us. What I wouldn't give. Yeah.

What I wouldn't give to just be listening to Ben. So a lot of messages I've gotten either through a text, email, or through our ex, my ex, how's Sammy? Yeah. How is Sammy? I'm fine. People are honestly acting like my wife left me, I had a death in the family, like some very serious event happened to me.

There's a lot of Leaf fans out there that can relate to those feelings. I steal my will to live. Bingo, I walked into the building today and people are like legitimately walking on eggshells. Giving you a wide berth. They're just like, Hey, like our boss, Ryan, Hey Sam, how are you? Danielle, how's it going, bud? How are you? Give me like, do you want to generally, we want to make sure you're okay though in the grand scheme of things. I am okay. When it comes to my favorite hockey, when it comes to my favorite hockey team,

I am far from okay. And that would be how I would answer the question. Where are we right now because we could sit there as of yesterday and go, okay, can they win this game? We said, what if they win? Sammy, that was one of your favorite taglines. It's like I said, I was a little nervous

because fork in the road blah blah blah What if they lose where where are you for the next two games? Potential two games hopefully two games if they lose and you're like, well, what if they win? What if they win and now where are we? Where are we in terms of what we saw and how we saw it? Justin that was an also also a theme of yesterday was, I believe I said at one point, I gotta see how it looks. Oh boy. Okay.

I didn't. Great start. Yeah. Great start. How did you see it? I mean guys, let's just get into it I guess. What a horrific disappointment. You know, we set a lot of stakes yesterday about what hung in the balance Guys, let's just get into it, I guess. What a horrific disappointment.

We set a lot of stakes yesterday about what hung in the balance based on that game and what it would mean with a win or a loss. And I actually thought we did a good job yesterday about kind of building up to this. This is the moment that, you might've called it the biggest game in 20 years for the franchise.

20, 25 years for sure. So a quarter of a century, I said for the team to be that heavily outplayed outplayed in the first period. I was shocked and I know you weren't and I know maybe I shouldn't have been shocked based on previous whatever. But I just thought at worst they were going to give him a game or run. We would see something they would recognize what was in front of them. And so Kip, I don't have the answer for why they played the way they played. And in particular, we are talking about Matthews and Marner. That's what a lot of the storyline has been about.

The stars, the stars. Yeah, the stars. We don't have I don't have an answer for why it looked like that. But it looked like what it's looked like when it's looked bad. And I think that one broke some people last night. But they are who we thought they were. That's exactly correct. We let them off the hook. Which is really disappointed because we've spent seven months telling everybody it's different. It feels different.

But it is different everywhere else, which makes this more of a spotlight than it's been in the past. Cannot win with them. So here's what I'll say. I think for myself, I'll speak for myself, and maybe some of you fans can relate to this feeling. But I think a lot of the vitriol that we're feeling today and we were feeling from yesterday

and all the different stuff is just getting the hopes up again. The excitement, letting ourselves get there again with this team and truly believing that, and I mean, I'll speak for myself, I believed that in a must-win game against the Florida Panthers at home, the Toronto Maple Leafs had a chance to win it. And I let myself believe, I let myself get excited, I let myself talk my friends into it, I just, I was talking about it so much, excited, hopeful.

What if they win? What if they win? I said, what, the excited, hopeful. What if they win? What if they win? I said, what? The idiot exclaimed, what if they win? It's not unnatural for you or any local fan. Think that way. That's, Sammy, when you either play sports or watch sports, that's what you're supposed to do. It's a natural thing

to feel like If I'm either participating or watching someone like a son or a daughter compete Or your favorite team Sammy, that's what you're supposed to do. So what happened? I mean, what do you see? I Saw a team that's better than the Toronto Maple Leafs in every way. And the main reason why I picked Florida to win this series was the last regular season game that they played in Florida which looked exactly like last night exactly and If this team

Florida is on their game They can beat you five different ways and different ways and a Kip they got there better they're just better okay they're just better so they win three two four two five two six one at home Kip yeah there's uh there's character flaws with the stars that's it yeah okay that's it they are good players if not great. They're just no good together. There's no chemistry, no passing, no like, did that team look like a bunch of individuals just looking for a raft to get them to shore?

They were drowning out there as individuals. That's not a team look last night. No. Not a close knit team. There was nothing good. You're right. Nothing. Nothing. Didn't like the deeper ones. In the didn't like it And like in the most critical like the moment in the most critical moment

If you cannot rise at the most critical moment and look like a real team Then everything else has been a bit of a facade You know, I wrote something on sportsnet.ca today, which I'm pretty proud of I think I put some effort into the one today and called the absence of greatness. I don't mean that I typically don't. I meant extra above and beyond. It seems like a good day for a good one. Late into the night last night. Just trying to, you know, really put my finger on, you know, I don't, these guys over the course of playoffs, Matthews and Marner have not been bad. Right? They, a lot of people have said a lot of things.

Okay, you disagree with that. They haven't hit any high note. I agree. They've been okay, but they haven't hit a high note. That's a perfect way to put it. We're waiting. I actually use that exact phrase in the article that they can't hit the high note. So when you look through all the great players in the league,

Matthews, McDavid, or sorry, Marner, excuse me, McDavid, Dryside, all the Oilers, they have games, they have moments where they just say, it's on us tonight. Yes, the Oilers have been much better as a team in this playoff so far, but there's games where those guys are just the best guys. And McKinnon does that. Rantin has had that moment. They've had that, the high note moments. Our whole game, our history,

has always been about the stars. Best players, high notes. High notes, best players. As a role player, as a player that was a very, very, very tiny piece of a Stanley Cup championship, we're just like fillers, man. We can just, and sometimes we can hold it. If they're not going, there's guys that can kind of

buy them time, buy them time. But then eventually they gotta come back and perform or else it's over, it's over. Every time I've walked into an NHL dressing room to get dressed, I know the guys that are gonna have to help me look good. I can't ever hit their level. They're better than me. They're just gifted. They're gifted like I can never be gifted. And if they're not going,

I'm done. And I absolutely, that's exactly how I feel about it. And then so I'm trying to describe last night in this article, the absence of greatness. You're trying to, you know, where are these moments where you say, and for us, there's no play where I go, well, why didn't you do this? But that's not on me to know. You know, these are supposed to be, Matthews makes the most in the league.

He's the captain of the team. Marner is gonna make something commensurate to Matthews. You know, they're all stars or all that. We're told they're great. So you're Both stars for their national teams. Yes, like they're You're the virtuosos.

Yes. You're the ones who are supposed to be able to see something I can't and you can't whatever. And it just doesn't come. No. And so is it Not pressure, not No, not only does it not come, it actually goes in the opposite direction. It gets worse.

It gets worse. That first period. Okay. It gets worse. I watched Matthews, Marner, Tavares and Willie barely touch the puck. You know what happens when you lose your confidence? You don't want the puck. I, you know what happens when you lose your confidence? You don't want the puck. I agree with that. I would like to exclude Willie from that from my own viewing. But

buddy, listen, at the end of the day, I don't know. I don't know. I don't notice Willie unless he's on a breakaway. I don't really want to exclude any of them. Okay, I'm not. I'm not either. But I don't really want to exclude any of them at this point. I'm not either. I'm not either. But Matthews doesn't want the puck. Like, even Marner, like on the spin around, the spin around, like, it's a s***y play.

Okay, Marner, like bad, right? Bad play. But it's not something that you necessarily saw a lot of over the last few years. No, it's not something he does. But like, where is everybody on that play? Where is everybody? Like, be in a position to want the puck, you know?

It's like, it's just, you lose confidence. I don't know how much Matthews wants the puck. Marner doesn't have the puck nearly as much as he should. Either what? It's too tight? It's too tight checking? I mean, there's no question that they've targeted these guys. Like, here's the game plan against the Leafs. Take away Matthews and Marner. It's over. It's done. And that's what they did. And I don't know where Marner is since Kulikov hit him in the head. But the difference is Marner goes the other way. And then Benoit hits Sam Reinhardt who has every reason not to get up and this guy doesn't miss a beat

Okay, you want to you want to hear like That that hits supposed to get the Leafs going when you are on a Florida bench and You're a panther and you see your best player get filled in like that and get up like nothing happened and and still get better in the series. That's a sign of a champion. You know, I agree, Kip. I agree with a ton of that. It's just like for me, it's I watched the OT winner last night in Edmonton.

Kasperi Kaepernick scores. And what does he do? Complicated guys. He skates to the net, tries to screen the shot, stands in the blue paint, wax away at a rebound. Like, it's a time of year where it's different, right? The type of play is different. And I don't think necessarily that you have to be, you know, mean, physical, tough, whatever,

but you have to be Barkov won a Stanley Cup as a captain, he gets six PIMs a year, but he's okay with going through guys. And I think you have to be accepting that this time of year, it's through, not around, and I see a couple guys who go around. Yeah, and that's just it, right? They're not... Marner physically cannot go through people. I look at Matthews at 6'3", 240 pounds and I'm like, come on, bud. Sure, absolutely. You are a mule out there and you have to be Barkov for the team. And he's not. There's no presence there. There was presence last night. That was the worst game I've maybe ever seen them play.

I mean, the whole top line in the first period, I mean, the shots against, the chances against, like the, I mean, the goals against, it was one nothing after the first. Like it's just, for them as the quote unquote leadership group, to set the tone, quote unquote, with that, to start the, like, that tells me everything I need to know.

That should, like, if you just zoomed out and looked at one thing and listen We're gonna we have a lot more time to talk about this. There's a game six on Friday night. It's crazy So the season is not there's a game six on Friday night, which we will talk about But it whatever happens if they lose that game on Friday if they lose in seven, whatever happens if it's a loss that first period should just be the microcosm of this entire era of Leafs hockey where when you expect them to be the most they are the worst like it's just I I just I can't believe they did that I can't believe that's how they started all right those are your thoughts on the start. Let's get Craig Ruby's thoughts on the start. Clip

two. Big night for the team, big night for the franchise, the fans, how do you explain that start that performance it's on such a big stage? Yeah it's hard to explain it. You know we all got to be better, myself included. You know, you can't start the game that way. That's a big thing for me. Sets a tone for the game. So yeah, I don't have an answer for you for why. Sports, things happen. You know, well based on his consistency, sports, things happen.

Well, based on his consistency, talking to the media, you're not gonna get anything else out of him. No. Well, that's life. Florida's a good team, and you talked about that a little bit earlier in the show here, and they played a great game, and they made it very hard. On the Leafs, who went away the second, it got hard in some of those cases. I don't know, like if you want the coach to come out at this

point and rip them or whatever. That's just not his style though. It would be, it would be phony and fake if he did it. Right. Even, even at this point it would be Kipper? Because I generally agree. And we've talked over the year about bullets being used and all that stuff, but.

No, he's gonna go down with the comm and, like, he's gonna go down with that ship. We need more from our top players, would be too much? It's almost stating the obvious, though, at this point. Well, state it. It's not enough to rattle the chains, Sammy. Me included. I mean, that's Ruby. We need to be better, me included.

Everybody's got that bit of a token. Did you hear Tanev yesterday though? Yeah. Did you have Tanev? No, but he just said that he took responsibility. I know. But sometimes it's not what you say, but how you say it comes a lot more sincere from him than Matthew sometimes sounds like he's reading it off a cue card. Well, listen, I'm not going to pick and choose the accountability here, because I don't think there's been many times that Matthew's been actually willing to say It's something like that. I mean it's been over the years

It's been the same tone from him and Mitch pretty much exclusively block out the outside noise Our shots didn't drop, you know flush it like Mitch said last night Just flush it like for him to actually say like I gotta be better. That's not in the mad libs. That's not what they usually say. So I'm not going to pick and choose my accountability and how they say it kipper. Like the fact that he said it is something different. So it's funny because like there Mitch didn't. Yeah, there are obviously other things to to talk about, you know, depth

players or whatever. It just all seems so secondary. If you can't create a thing like them scoring Nick Robertson scoring a goal with one minute left in that game I almost wish it didn't happen like it's nice for your chances of winning game six maybe you don't have Bob having this giant shutout streak and everyone's all excited about but like I Don't know just just kind of wanted them to just get skunked at that point. They play It's six nothing. Yeah, that's a non-sense. It's a

It is getting shut out at home in a critical game in front of your fans. We're getting shut out Yeah, but in a critical game it's Yep fans leaving. Yeah after already I talked to lots of people who were at the game last period and they said yeah halfway through whatever Yeah, probably 50% crowd by the third period and by the end of the game He my buddies were saying you could hear other conversations in the in the area. Yeah, there's We've seen some bad losses in the last eight years. I want around one but this one Probably because no one expected,

like that hump should have been crossed, or that bridge should have been crossed, right? The ugly looking playoff game. This should have been, if they're gonna lose, they're gonna lose swinging, going down with the grit and the size and we're different. That's what stings the most today. Well I would argue that they are like I mean everything that can be different is different Kipper. Like

everything that they have except the results last night and how they lost. Yeah. That's the same. And yeah and your two top guys that have made the most in your Everything that they have. Except the results last night and how they lost. Yeah. That's the same. And yeah, and your two top guys that have made the most in your team having the same thousand yard stare on the bench where they're just accepting their fate in a brutal game. I want people that wanna win.

Enough with the drops, Derek, Jesus. Sorry, but God. Anyways, like it's just, they just don't look like they care as much as the other guys. And that's what kills me. They probably care. I'm not gonna ever accuse a professional athlete

of not caring. They care their way. Yeah, but that, I mean, caring their way, Kipper. It's not good enough. It's not. And that's what is so incredibly frustrating, trying to watch these guys in a game where you are that we've hyped up biggest game of the 20 years All the stakes fork in the road everything is biggest thing

Atlantic Division winners and for you to be losing six to nothing and still for some reason getting a consistent shift in that game to not go over the boards and not look at someone funny, not mix in a cross check, not hammer somebody, not run the goalie. How can any Leaf fan have any feel of pride? They, like the people and the fans that are booing, they're caring more. It's just, it was infuriating. It almost makes me feel like I just, I don't know, man.

It's just the Panthers look like they want it and care so much more. And that's the difference to me. But I think that's- Sorry. No, that's 10 out of 10 from you. I think it's very well said that, you know. But why, why?

Why have they never been pissed off about getting embarrassed? Why Kipper? I somebody explained it to me. No, fundamentally, that's what we're talking about. They're just not built that way. Like, no, it's build a house in a different city. I'm sick of it. Character flaw. flaw. You know, some of these, not everyone is is hardwired to be that competitive, you know, that cares about winning and losing to that degree. And it sounds I hate saying that about anyone, because you don't necessarily know what's going on behind closed doors and their personal lives, whatever.

But the sample size is so big that they don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore that you just have to assume that they like making a lot of money, like being famous. They're very good at hockey, you know, and didn't grow up with like, you know, I would fight my mom to win the Stanley Cup in the heart. You know, that's it's tough to come to any other conclusion after all this.

We do have some stuff from Ruby on them. We should probably play it. Yep, we should. Let's play Clip four, please, on what Matthews and Marner need to do better. Well, I juggled the lines a lot tonight. Did you see any different result? I don't think lines have anything to do with it. It's look at they're going against the bark off line for them for the most part

and you know if you look at the matchup throughout the series it's pretty tight and it's you know there's not gonna be a lot of room out there they're doing it they've done a good job up till tonight of doing a good job against that line. And that's part of their job. I get it. Our top guys, we need them to produce. But they've done a lot of good things up to this point. Tonight wasn't a good game for anybody.

Anybody. All of us. It was not a good game. I think those are, that's really well said. They got their lunch fed every which way. And it may start with your best players, but go down the line here in terms of that roster that third and fourth line Greer no check a Boquist scored last night you see the way they go in like dogs on a bone

second and third wave for checks cycle Don't give the puck up. Right from the get-go, boys. I know. And the Leafs, stretch passing, chip and chase, one and done. So, like, yeah, okay, spend 15, 20 minutes, Matthews Marner, no good. Yeah.

Willie, no good. But, like, your second, third, fourth line, no good, Willie no good, but like your second, third, fourth line, no good, your blue line, Kristana's done guys. He's done. He's like, I can't get hit anymore. He's barely got anything left in him. He's just going back, getting hammered, going back. Like if he stood up out of bed this morning,

put a surprise this morning. I'll put Put a surprise face on like I don't know how much more that guy how much more blood that guy's got to give to Florida It's getting hammered killed every she Goaltending no good. I Had a lot of faith in wall. I was wrong. I was wrong. Nowhere near mentally able to handle coming in for Stolarz in this series. And the puck handling's been an issue as well, which I didn't anticipate either. But like I said, they're getting their lunch fed

every which way. You know, it's crazy that they're in the series isn't over, right? And looking at that group who's beat this Florida team twice in playoffs now, and trying to figure out how to get back to that, it just felt like last game, like they were two different level teams for a little bit. But this Leafs team is so strange. And this is, I think, what's at the crux of what's so frustrating is like every time you do this and you write them off, you go, ah, you get a good one.

You know what I mean? And every time. Well, most of the time. OK, we talked with Bunk post game and he was thinking himself and nots going You think it's like, you know now that they like everyone has basically written the eulogies and said they're done and basically takes the pressure Off them. You'll see a different. This is the only way you guys can play that you Be humiliated have everybody go against you and then you show up but that's Always been the tone with them kipper regular season for years and years every time you go off this team And then they come back and they just like thump the top team in the league or something, but I mean to your point

instead of This organization instead of embracing the fans It's always been pretty much since the start or since it started to go bad a few years ago. Like it's us against them. This like, oh we block out the outside noise. We do this, we do that. So that's maybe why they perform well because they want to stick it to their... I don't know what it is, but there's something to that. But after watching the last two games, I want to believe so bad that I'm gonna sit down on my TV on eight o'clock on Friday night

and I am gonna see the Toronto Maple Leafs go toe to toe with the Florida Panthers. I really believe me Leaf Nation. I wanna believe that. It's sport and I'm not gonna write it off. Anything can happen. I understand, but like, what have you seen in two games, Kipper, that would give you any indication

and that is even close to possible? Nothing. What did you see in the first two games that would give you the indication? Exactly. A Florida team that didn't get their act together. That's what I saw. Okay, well maybe they have a bad game.

You know, that happens in sports too. I know. I know. And that's, to me, if- You've gotten their best here. If Florida takes their foot off the gas pedal, if somehow some way, like the first three games, you can manage to get two goals on six shots on Bobrovsky, great.

But this Florida team is going to have to kind of roll over a little bit for the Leafs to bring this thing back to game seven. Well, it kind of reminds me of like back in Tigers Prime when it'd be like him and Rocco Mediat tied coming up 18. It was like, yeah, it's close, but one of them's clearly better. And if they play enough games, that'll sort itself out. That's kind of how it looks right now. That Florida blue line last night, like Nico Maccala. Nico Maccala was a real player who played against my dad. Nico Maccala? No, Nico Nicola. Nico Nicola.

Nico Nicola. Nico Nicola. Nico Nicola. See, we can still charcoal. He's got those six by six, six foot, six inch arms, like giving it this one right here. Condor. He's huge. No one's getting by that guy.

Even Seth Jones. Like Seth Jones last night was a rock star for them. Ekblad. Those guys came to play. That's a Forzling. Waivers. On waivers they got this guy. Their best defenseman. It's's gonna be tough. It's gonna be tough. Like it's sport and I hope they can get a bounce here and there and you know unfortunately Stolar isn't on the trip so you're back to wall again. Can he bounce back and have a memorable game that keeps it alive? Didn't he do that last time? He played great in Florida last game. No, but two years ago wasn't it him alone that brought it back? Yes. Game four, game four. They were down three nothing and Wall went in there and

gave the Leafs some life. I don't know, can he do that again? Sure, maybe. The Leafs are healthy. There's no reason they can't put forth a good game here. But same with last game. So I got to ask you about Marner in this next game, Kipper, because listen, I've been on my ex all day on Twitter reading about just all the reports coming out now. I see CJ just stuff about, you know, it's unlikely he's coming back.

All the stuff you've mentioned, if they lose, unlikely coming back. You mentioned this yesterday and I didn't let you go there because of what happened. Like, how does that not play a factor in game six that we're already talking about? Like, I mean, it's been talked about all year, but it's coming to a head here that like, oh, maybe he's not coming back and he's doing whirling dervish passes up the middle that end up in the back of the net. No support, whatever. But like, there's got to be part of it. It's huge human nature. That's like, they go down two goals. It's, it's Colorado watch. Like that. You just don't want to do it anymore. I think they're either gonna win or get killed. I'm concerned about

that as a Leaf fan, where I'm never gonna accuse somebody of quitting or not trying, but like mentally, how do you get over that hump? Sami, how long has there been unrestricted free agency? But it's different with this situation, Kipper. It's different because it's your favorite team. And it's, well, it's This most popular team in the world ours did it other ufa guys have done it organizations have gone through this. Yes The bed was made a long time ago. Yeah, okay with the Leafs and Marner. I'm playing it out. I'm not coming back Well, what's going on behind the scenes? Do you want to stay here? Do you not want to stay here?

Is it money? Is it not money? Do you want to stay here? Do you not want to stay here? Is it money? Is it not money? Like all of this is they've been this is going on since September Sammy You can't just bring it into game six and then you'll snap your fingers and go. Oh, wait a minute You playing your contract? Oh, it's an issue going into Game six. I mean he got asked after the game last night if it was going to be his final home game Like it's a story What's he supposed to say? No, he didn't say anything. He said the right thing. I'm under I'm just saying that Yes, it's a fact. It's a big fact It is a factor and it's been a factor for other guys that have left and hey just deal with it

the only thing that's dealing in this conversation is You know if it looks like that in game six and they lose, would they want him back at a number, you know, around what he wants? I think they would have made him an offer for... They lose. They lose. You can't bring them back. No way. Okay. Can't bring them back. It's over. It's over.

It's over. You know, it strikes me as a kid who's from here who just had a baby like he probably wants to stay Near family and stuff. I can't imagine he wouldn't want to this Should have been addressed a long time Conversation but it is a it is it is a conversation that we're gonna have and at this point you're right I mean no sense Doing it now, but but like this didn't sneak up on anybody so

But it's coming to a head, but it's coming to a head and that's why it's talked about But it It needed to be cleaned up a long time ago. Okay? If I was running the Leafs, I would never have allowed the possibility of that guy walking out the door for nothing. Yeah, well, they tried and then he didn't wave.

No, they didn't try. They didn't try? When I say that they didn't try, I mean they didn't try to force it. They let it go. And either it's denial or sweeping it under the rug or having hope that it will just all work out. We have a- They're 60 minutes away from losing and nothing worked out other than a very

talented player in his prime who happened to be a hometown guy, uh, is leaving. Yeah. And how did you allow that to happen? Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, he should have been traded for sure. Okay, should have been gone a long time ago. And they double down and they triple down on everybody. And they're 60 minutes away from losing that game and having that bite them in the ass. Yeah, It's, I mean, sad. Like, honestly, part of,

I just, I don't want it to happen like that because the amount, because I have as critical a martyr as everybody and you know that, that pisses you off, but like. That doesn't piss me off. Listen, it is what it is. I like him. I think he's a very good hockey player

and under different circumstances, maybe around different guys. It could have been a different story for him in Toronto. Sure. But what I was going to say Kipper, is the way this is played out is totally heartbreaking and crazy. That my whole life, Leaf fans jumped out for a playoff or an Ontario guy, a star homegrown winger from this, like what if we could get a guy from Toronto that's like loves it here and all this stuff. And it's just, if you simulate this career

with Marner a hundred times here, this is a bottom 10 simulation in terms of the results and in terms of what's happened. It's just, I can't believe and I'm part of it. So I, incredibly sad. It's, it's just, it's turned out poorly and a part of it's because of him and his playoff play. And I'm not a part of that, but it's just, it's really crazy how badly it's played out. Really crazy.

Anyways, like I said, shocked at last night. Shocked. We should break. Oh my God. Yeah, it's a break and Derek. I'm sorry for yelling buddy. I'm really sorry Everything's forgiven. No, I just I feel badly. I shouldn't have buried him like that. I just a little heated Sorry, everybody Everyone did a great job. All right, we'll take a quick break here for a group hug Yeah, let's listen to some Paul Marie's clips when we come back here for a group hug? Yeah, let's listen to some Paul Marie's clips when we come back.

That'll make me feel really a lot better. Oh, God. Okay, more of the group hug when we return to Real Kipper and Born After These Words. Hey, it's Matt Marchese. And I'm Mike Fuda. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world.

Weekdays at noon. It's the Fan Hockey Show on Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Show on Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sami McKee, the Toronto Maple Leafs try to regroup as they head towards Florida. Game six tomorrow night. night. You know, as an athlete, JB, you've experienced this as well. As bad as you think some things are. What's worse is if you end your season on a game like last night, but you wake up this morning, and you still have a chance to at least come back

in another 24 hours. Thank God they do. And show something like that. That in itself is a gift that you have another opportunity to have that game that you played last night, not the lasting memory of the season. Right. Although you may remember it for a long time you still got another shot. Here's the thing they can win tomorrow night and

Game seven will be the lasting memory whatever happens in that house of horrors that game seven will be the lasting memory They lose tomorrow Game five will be the lasting memory. I think that's fair. Is that fair? Without a doubt. Yeah. Without a doubt. But I would love a world where other markets, like the Leafs, they sneak one out in game six and then they get through in game seven and all the other markets are going,

how you guys embarrassed yourself after game five. Perfect. You know? Would love to get embarrassed. Honestly, nothing I would love more. Truly. Make me look dumb. This is an interesting, okay, so this is from Borubey today, so he addressed the media today

before they flew to Florida, and I thought this is an interesting clip of what happened last night. Clip eight, please, Derek, Borubey clip eight. Well, yeah, it's obviously disappointing for everybody, players included, they wanna do well, they wanna do the right thing. But sometimes when you go into a game and, you know, it's a big game and we're at home and we just we overthink things. You got to trust your structure and your system.

So then that takes care of the thinking, you know, we Then it's just about playing. We know what type of series it is and it's been a good series. The first four games were competitive, we were competitive, we were skating, we were physical, we were puck battles, all that stuff. That last game was overthinking things and not playing hockey

You think of that I Think overthinking things is a really good way to put it I think that the structure and the way they play is so turn your brain off and try your hardest that Overthinking can be a bit of a curse. I Don't I don't like their structure. There's times when I've bought into it in terms of keeping it simple and pucks to the net and there's certain portions of the regular season,

maybe when you're playing less sophisticated teams like Florida that it could look good, but they don't have the puck enough. The gap between their defense and their forwards, the stretch passing, you see how structured Florida is either in their own zone or off of a sustained forecheck. They can pass the puck that team. And it's not enough. the chip and chase is not enough

against this Florida Panthers team they're gonna have to find a way to look more together like shorter passes Florida two three passes in their own zone they're out but like not the Leafs it's it's funny like it's almost like they wanted so badly to not be the Dubus era Leafs with the skill that they've gone completely the other direction to just banging it off the wall and trying to get muckers. And I find myself watching this game against Florida going, somebody's going to make a play.

You got to put it under a guy's stick at some point and get it to the middle. Is Barube's team, or Bar Ruby's system right now hurting? Austin Matthews, did it take up? 50 goal scores 60 goal score and turn it into a 30 goal score with the dumping in the chase and getting pucks to the net It can be both right? I don't know Offensively, but I think a lot of people were happy with the evolution of his game overall But yeah, he's a worst offensive player the first year in the system. So it's hard to say it's not right I mean he also just like like five minutes in he's going in and it looks like he's in his wheelhouse

And he fans on the shot. He didn't fan like the puck Ran away from him. It's like you just never When he's going, he pulls that into the middle and he rips it and it's got a chance of going in. It's just, he gave it the puck away multiple times in the power play. I don't know, I just, I don't know.

But the- I hope they want the puck. I hope they, to your point, maybe it's us against the world and nobody believes in us and I can relax and handle the puck again. But this it's like a grenade in his hands right now. They I think CC said on the broadcast last night, they had no even strength offensive zone draws in the first period last night.

That's crazy. Well, one thing I will say no offensive zone draws. I know it's ridiculous. That's insane. How is that possible? The one thing that to me that differentiates Matthews and Marner and the way they look in these moments to me, Matthews is working and trying to make something happen, but it's all a grenade for him. It's not smooth.

He's not as poised as usually looks or whatever. And to me, Marner seems more hesitant to skate forwards fast. Like I see a lot of lateral and weight and think and what, you know, instead of just the go-go. Exactly what happened on the goal last night where he gets closed off, he turns around, he thinks he sees somebody, he throws it up the middle. It's like they don't... Yeah.

Skate, chip it, go forward. So it's... It closes off. It closes off. And that's where you need a support. That's where you need a five seven foot pass. Yeah but you also don't need to throw in the middle like they don't give and go. They don't pass like I see no chemistry between Matthews and Marner. None. Zero. So glad you brought that up last. Both you guys do you think we're seeing a blender tomorrow night?

I hope so. I hope so. I can't get any worse with what we saw last night. He's just been so hesitant to go away from what he believes to be the best. Then go down with the ship then. Well, that's the thing. Is it go down with the ship or is it, all right, we're going to do option B because there's only been B allowed here's Willie with Matthews yeah that's the thing doesn't leave you a lot of options to how many time I will say it has been tough that the first that the end of the Leafs core for tenure with it being right in front of us that year watching someone who hasn't watched this team as closely as us over

the years in Craig Bruby and it's not disparaging to him no one has watched the Leafs every single game you know a few people have you know yeah probably up there yeah no I know like you've watched every single game of this that we have known it's like you need an option where one of these guys is on a third line you need to try some things in the regular season. See if Matthews could drive a line on his own or Marner can or Willie can. We have said this forever. And whether it's the scratching of McMahon to start the year or what it's stuff that

we've seen and known here. Watching them work through it is so frustrating. You I watched I watched the Oilers last night, and I'm watching an overtime winner that features Dry Cytl playing with Kasperi Kapiton and Colson. And they're not playing Anaheim, they're playing Vegas. It's like, that's allowed.

Play them with a couple. I really wish they would have traded for someone that legitimately could have been just someone that with a talent level that could kind of match up with the big boys. And Lawton has not disappointed me. I've actually really, really liked him. He's got a presence out there.

He ripped one off the post last night. Which I can say is more than Austin for me. He's got a presence out there, which I can say is more than than Austin for me. He's got a bigger presence last night than your captain and the highest paid guy in the league. Think about that for a second. He's encouraging having him for next year. But he's not gonna help you on the other side. They needed to trade for a guy that could at least look like a legit top four or five forward. It also kills me Kip that they didn't ever give him a moment to play on the wing with

Matthews and Marner or Nylander and Tavares or because he has a presence and he can shoot in the net. No, he can't shoot it in the net well He can't he can't If you had a score that one last night, it would have been a great six two loss instead Yeah, and that would have been what his second goal in like 35 games is just he really hadn't scored He doesn't have a touch Mm-hmm

So but he'll give you everything he has and the unfortunate part, you know, you don't really need to spend first rounders for those guys. You should be able to get them, you know, cheaper or on waivers or, but he's been great for them outside of contributing offensively. You're paying for what the retention, a lot of that, right? You got them for one five next year anyway Yeah, anyways One thing that they're gonna have to do is be a little bit more disciplined

That was a tough slashing call That max Domi took as much as he wants to get involved as much as he wants to send messages as much as he wants to be a positive influence on his hockey club. That one has to, yeah, you have to back off that one. Simmons asked him after the game if he'd have to consider taking him out because of the stupid penalties that he's taken.

And Berubi kind of didn't say no, didn't slough it off. So we got to address it. Do we have Berubi on, Max? We're just kind of running out of time. Let's got to address it. So, you know, do we have Ruby on? Yeah, we're just kind of running out of time. Let's play. We have time. I'm not sure if we have time. Six of six. Right. Can you can you continue to dress Max Domi

in light of what seems to be happening every game? Oh, in what way? Penalties. Yeah. No, it's definitely an issue that we got to talk about and discuss and figure out what we're gonna do there. Yeah. There you go. That was three nothing at that point and everyone on the rink was watching him slash Kachak in the arm. Oh my god. Let's talk about the Oilers. Solved nothing again on this show. We have 32 clips left to play. Please make me look stupid, Leafs.

Please. Please. All right. We've got another day to kind of figure it all out, Sammy, before Friday night's game six. We'll leave the Friday show. Come back Monday and we'll have won the series. Oh my god, please.

All right, we go national next. Rob Brown, former NHL forward, covers the Edmonton Oilers. Alright, talk about Canada's number one team next.