Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: January Malaise

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 3-1 loss to the Minnesota Wild, their third defeat in a row. They discuss the team's recent lack of offensive production, whether it could be blamed on personnel or Craig Berube's coaching style, and whether the team needs to look outside the organization for answers. Then, they suggest possible solutions for the struggling Morgan Rielly and Max Domi. Later, Gord Stellick (33:01) discusses the Leafs' stretch into the international break, Berube's patience and how a good 4 Nations Face-Off performance could energize Team USA captain Auston Matthews and other participating Leafs.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

the We are live on sports at 590 the fans sports that 360 and sports net plus And wherever you get your download On your favorite podcast, which we hope is us. Yeah, Nick Kiprios Justin Bourne Sammy McKee Derek Brandeo and Jake Schultz with you for the next two hours In about 35 minutes. We'll welcome in Gord Stelick and we'll go over the Toronto Maple Leafs and what we witnessed again last night but first of all it comes with great sadness to learn of the passing of Sean Simpson former professional hockey player and broadcaster in the Ottawa area. Sean was someone that I got to know through turning professional hockey

in the mid 80s with the Washington Capitals. He was a third round selection at the time coming off of Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds. Goalie. In the OHL, yeah, and a good goalie at that. So I know we'll get into that a little bit more. And remembering Sean with Jason York, who will join us at the top of the hour co-host of the Coming In Hot Sends podcast.

And we'll talk a little Sean Simpson and what a tremendous loss that is to the Ottawa community. In the meantime, we have to talk about that game. We have to as trivial as it may seem, you know, in the big picture today. Yep. Toronto Maple Leafs dropped their third consecutive game in a row something that I don't know. Seems like a more of a common theme these days. Yeah, Jamie, buddy, that felt like Clockwork Orange having to watch that show. And I know that's an older reference,

but I believe they prop open someone's eyelids with toothpicks and force them to watch something. Yeah, it's a slog right now trying to watch these maplers, injured maple leaves try to put pucks in the net. Minnesota shuts it down pretty tight and they just couldn't generate a whole heck of a lot last night. Have fun, Sammy? No. Zero. Do you want to get Craig Bruby's thoughts? Because I don't know if...

I think... Yeah, let's go to Craig Bruby first because I think Sam will just kind of take this in his overview in his Maple Leaf way he can. Okay. All right, Craig. We gave up the first goal. You know, we got to win that battle down there below our goal line. We had coverage in front, but it just got through us. We got to be better there. We're down one nothing.

On their power play goal, we tipped the puck in. You know, we just got, that's a play there. We got to block that shot. We don't not with your stick. So we made a couple of mistakes, but we battled. I thought, you know, we had a lot of shot attempts and pucks. They blocked a lot of shots. So, you know, in the end, we got to do a better job of getting those through,

finding some lanes. You know, I think sometimes when you're not scoring and things aren't going in, you take a little extra second to shoot and try to get a little bit too cute at times. I'm not saying we got cute tonight, but just not quick enough on and off shooting. But we had chances. It's a tough stretch right now with scoring. That's the bottom line. So it's got to battle through it.

I didn't get a chance. I don't know if you did before we get to Sammy on just the data and the analytics. And again, over the years, I've gotten to know things that I've liked, things that I don't like, but I think the data last night suggested that they weren't as bad as maybe some people,

including our Sammy might have thought. Yeah Well, I think the the best line was good like the Matthews Marner line They according to my data controlled 70% of the expected goals and they over there shot attempts are 2612 when they were on the ice even strength They did pretty good Beyond that not a whole lot to love. It was fine, they just didn't create anything. Pretty low chance generation, but no, they didn't like,

wasn't like it was a highway towards their net. They just can't get it going. Okay, Sam. Yes? Your concern meter seems to be very high. Just for the record. Yeah. Like, again, before the show, we get together,

you know, early in the afternoon. And, man, you were just chomping to get a few things in. And it got to the point where I'm like, stop it. I felt like a dad because you started talking about the game last night. And I'm like, stop it, save it for the show. I'll turn this car right around if you keep talking. If this show is a catchphrase- Get up off the floor, stop playing with the dog, and go to school.

If this show is a catchphrase that people don't know about it, save it. Save it. Save it. Save it. As soon as you start talking, we blew a segment. So thank you, Sammy, for saving it for the show. So let her rip.

I'm looking at, on daily face-off, they do a good job of showing the the lines and the last 10 game stats for the Toronto Maple Leafs and for all the teams and for the Toronto Maple Leafs I go through their team and there's one two three four five different forwards that have zero goals in their last 10 games. Yeah. Five forwards on your team and the other ones. I'm surprised it's just five.

And then the other ones, one, oh sorry my bad, you go one goal, one goal, two goals. Now we're talking. Two goals. They just, if it's not the big boys, it's nobody. I know they're hurt, but it's just a really unenjoyable product to watch at the moment. And I know a lot of Leaf fans are feeling the same way. You talked about the malaise, the dog days. This is not just the dog days for the guys playing it.

It's the dog days for the fans. They've been watching these guys for eight years. There's a lot of pent up stuff. It just sucks to watch. And I'm not specifically talking to the Leafs, but in general, I'm not seeing a very good product. It's not. And of NHL hockey. Yeah. And is it is it because of this Four Nations tournament? Is it because you've you've squeezed more out specifically, maybe the Toronto Maple Leafs with 10, 10 back to back games in like

the first 40 plus games? Yeah doesn't help but I mean it depends if you chalk up their injuries to that then yes but I do think we've been the Leafs have spent a quarter of their season missing four or five forwards at a time like big numbers of often important forwards so you know I do I did come in here today I'm all hopped So, you know, I do, I did, coming in here today, I'm all hopped up on, you know, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, and part of me's like, am I, are we not given enough credit to the fact that they are genuinely missing, you know, John Tavares,

who's a, you know, a big part of their team, and Nye's been part of their team. And looks more important every game he's out. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. No, no, no, I just, I do feel a little bit like, you know, wanna pound them, but at the same time,

gotta have a little bit of mercy based on that. One of my buddies sent me one of the comments from Leafs Talk last night, and I'm not a comment reader, so you can say mean things, I'm never gonna see it, but someone sent me this one and said, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss the Keith Leafs.

I know Borubi's systems are better suited for playoff success, but it's just so damn boring to watch in a lot of nights It's like watching Italy play soccer turtle shell defense with zero offense Yeah, well, there's something to be said no one will say that if they win a cup But like there is an adjustment period here for the fans We don't be too fancy try to make a comment without the if part, right? At the end of the day, that's all there is,

is if and hope. And we know how we feel about those words. It's like, how much, okay, I get it too. Like the injuries and the back to backs and no one really playing with anybody without getting the bingo bangle balls out sometimes. But like how much is said to dump and chase? How much is like they're not creating?

That to me is the biggest thing that I watch now is that I can and I you know how I felt and I know that at times I've talked about Matthews and Tavares about the heartbeat of a hockey club is your first two centremen and they're not great creators. They're very good at shooting the puck in the net and one of them is the best in the world but they don't necessarily create and now it's spread out through the roster the lack of creativity buddy I'm dying that no one else could shoot it in the net but him it's just just Austin like I know you want Mitch to he's the distributor and he is having a special season but there's been 30 games since

November Mitch has scored in four of them Like you know like no one else can put a puck in the net for this team And then I watch Austin and right on Austin my dad Austin's got one assist in nine games So there's he can finish But he's he's not distributing He's not creating either and then you go down the roster and then it's zero out of anybody and then the back end Is the worst it ain't those guys. It's the worst. They're the worst scoring for creativity, too It is them. No, I'm saying it's not Mitch and Austin. No, no, it's everybody. Yes, it's everybody those guys We're on them because there's the guys who's supposed to do it or whatever, but it's everyone else

So we've seen it It doesn't work when you can't when you have nothing behind these guys So we've talked that this is a better built team for the playoffs. Right. And now it's kind of you're losing that luster a little bit because playoffs have to be about creating to yes. And we know that you're shutting down. And that's because the core and this goes back to a conversation we've had here for

years, which is, can you tape grit to that core? All surround it with grit and whatever. And that's what they've tried to do. The bottom six forwards are all pretty, you know, strong physical forecheck type guys, but it can't be at a cost of not being able to produce. And I think again, the injuries are definitely a part of this but it's becoming very evident that whoever they get needs to be able to score Max Domi not being able to score is killing them but they don't pass the puck and it's like what you said what a month ago

they're the worst team for passing the puck in the offensive zone they're down there last night and I'm watching again, Minnesota I don't think for one second many is that Much better of a hockey club than the Toronto Maple Leafs No, but they seem to keep pucks a lot more alive They they passed the puck better to me last night. Yeah, maybe maybe they did. I just To me it's roster, you know It's and I agree that there is a chance and there's a very good chance that the way

they're constructed it doesn't work. That's not constructed or just like overcoached with the dump and chase and straight lines and get pucks to the net and it's just it's too simple. It's too predictable and it's easy to check and it's certainly not Hmm, you know, there's never a day where the solution is well, I'm just I'm interested in that but this is that go ahead but I just say this feels like It's like such a faux pas for a coach to say he wants East West Right like every coach the solution is we got to be more direct. We got to get pucks than that

We got to get bodies to the net. I don't know because Keefe didn't win a cup I guess. It's a massive sin to say we'd like to hang on to it. We'd like to create. We'd like to go east west. But like you got to have a little of that element. But that blue line is not a east west blue line. It's a West blue line. It's a Benoit, North-South, McCabe, North-South. O'Yell, Timmons, Riley, they should be able to... But they're not. No, they're not. But even last night, O'Yell gets a puck in the slot and he's like fading away from the net as he shoots it into the goalie's glove. But there's no East-West. And I'm looking at Spurgeon last night and Brock Faber and they're like

They they they got a better handle on pace of play for their hockey club than anybody has for pace of play on the Leaf Blue line right now, so you mentioned the the over coaching or whatever Are you concerned about the match here the matchup because you said earlier in the season that you were thought there's gonna be an adjustment Period between this this core and this team and brew based style, but we're getting into concerned about the match here the matchup because you said earlier in the season that you were thought there's gonna be an adjustment period between this this core and this team and Borubei style but we're getting into January the longest month of all time here but we're almost in February I got the break coming up like are you a little concerned about I am a little concerned that what was working in the first half is now starting to tighten up and we've

always said this that it gets harder as the months go on and matchups and style of play in that first round when you've got a week of prep and a book this thick on every player and every tendency and every X and O that they've played over the course of 82 games gets a game plan against. Yeah, you got to make adjustments. Yeah, you do. And I just I don't I see the same thing over and over again out of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Just pucks to the net, you know, get it in deep.

And there are times when there's too many pucks to the net and they're bad angles and they're one and done. Yeah, to me, if I'm an offensive player it it takes me for granted you know like that we're just gonna play this thoughtless style and not thoughtless understand that there is it's it's from a place of playoff success but you know if you're a guy like Marner or Willie or whatever they're like you guys will figure out how to score within this system we're gonna tell everyone to do this basic stuff you're so so good, you'll figure it out. And it's like, can I get a little leeway then? Like, can we try a few things? I don't know. It just feels because again,

no one else scores every time we look at these guys and go, you got to score every single game. If he, if he changed it up a little bit, like, is there a chance that can score more goals or Domi can score more goals or Nick can score more goals I don't know or Holmberg Holmberg is a fine hockey skill set big strong whatever he may have the least offensive instincts of anyone I've watched play for the Leafs for a long time well all these years I mean the coach said he had way more to give offensively yesterday which I definitely didn't agree with maybe he does

I I don't know we haven't seen it can I ask you to about this because I was watching the game last night and you know the group chats are warm about how bad the least look or whatever and that's just such to me a defibrillator game where Just you don't have a lot of skill throughout your lineup Whatever you're doing you're banging your head against the wall. I know Matthews and Marner look good together. We know they look good together We know they can have the puck in the offensive zone It was such an obvious throw it in the blender night where you're playing a sleepy game and an outside

It just feels like you've been so The only time he ever does it is when they're down like four zip or four one or like the games out of reach I wouldn't you like to see them get split up last night, spread a little bit of offense life throughout the lineup? There's just so little throughout the lineup when these guys are out. I don't know. I just know. Yeah, I would have been all in favor trying something. It's just...

Okay, I'm gonna make my comment after I hear from Craig Beruvia on the lack of scoring. Well, there's always things like, I mean, you can nitpick every little thing, right? And, you know, be in front of the goal anymore. Do this better, do that better, you know, there's a lot of things and we're always on it and we're looking, looking for different ways to score and guys that can do a better job. And we just got to stick with the plan. We just got to stick with how, you know, our game and not get off track. We'll score. We stick with the plan. We just got to stick with our game and not get off track. We'll score.

We'll get the goals. Just more of the same. That's taking it for granted to me. Stick with the plan, baby. Yeah. Right? So, and I brought this up in the last few shows is just try to slide Max in there with Austin,

but he doesn't want to Yeah, I mean you just based on what we're seeing he clearly doesn't want to You know, it's funny cuz you start looking for solutions. They all sudden Brandon sod looks really good You know someone else somebody this team Desperately needs offensive help. Oh, yeah outside the organization. They need something. He's gone to a... I don't know if it's a priority level, but they're looking into it right now for sure in terms of what it could cost. And I don't know if the marketplace has been established yet for Saad, but the Leafs will be in it. I think until they see a number they don't like Think so. Yeah. Oh, yeah

I don't know how you can't be in your watch especially last night. I heard the Oilers also interested but I Don't know. I just I look up and down this roster and they've tried the defensive thing and Sure, they've got enough guys with a defensive conscience But we know what's gonna happen when they get into these type playoff games There's eight years of evidence except one year where they got past the first round You need scoring on this team the year they won the round where they went an ot21 Yes, I mean every game they play like everybody's like all they got to improve the decore

They got to improve the systems. They lost they won every game. The first round last was two one or three two. Yeah, they played fine deep like they were good defensively They got some saves like they they were okay They just can't score and it just feels like we're kind of trending towards a similar fate here fellas It really does well, that's not helping the power play again They cannot get energy at the right time from the power play don't don't get power plays. They've been, there's been a way down. They're not drawing them at all. So let's find out the stats on that. Morgan's starting to take the heat. It's interesting the one view we had of, or the one clip that we already had of Borubi and I know he mentioned Morgan later on and we'll get to those clips but

in that specific clip that we heard he mentioned that we cannot lose a battle down low But he doesn't specifically mention Morgan Riley, but it was Morgan's battle that he lost that led to the first goal. Mm-hmm He's having a hard time and what's tough now is like We're on him and I don't mean us. I just mean media fans steady like he's tough now is like we're on him and I don't mean us I just mean media fans steady like he's aware now I think that it's he's becoming not that you know our topic but the topic yes and you want to give him at least in this town he does get the benefit of the doubt and not sure anymore

well I don't know I'm watching the first intermission with our guys and our, you know, Sam, the cause, you know, what do you say after 20 minutes? Right? This guy needs a break. He needs a vacation, take the family, go to the beach. And I'm like going, but he's got 40 minutes to go in this game and he's got four more games out West. Can you, can they, can the Leaf got 40 minutes to go in this game and he's got four more games out west. Can you, can the, can the Leafs get them to play better before you send them to Expedia.ca? Right? Yeah.

It's like, you're still, there's still meat on the bone here. Four game, four big ones. Four more, but like everybody's like written this guy off on a vacation and get a break and get away from it all. And you're a new dad. And if he had had half a decent year, he might be on Team Canada. You know, he was a guy that was mentioned with Josh Morris E and that type of player.

He was. Right, you know good good season. He'd have been there. So it is a stark change. All right, let's go to Craig Brew beyond Morgan Riley. Can Morgan play better? Yes, he can. We all know that he knows that and he's trying to work Bruby on Morgan Reilly. Can Morgan play better? Yes, he can. We all know that.

He knows that and he's trying to work through it right now. So again, like our team, it's a team game. That's not all on Morgan. Yes, he's a guy that we need offense from from the back end. And you know, he's just got to stick with it and we'll keep working at it. We'll try to help him as much as we can What else can you say what what do you think like if you're I'm gonna ask you both if You're both Craig Barube. Yeah, and you're you know, one of those meetings they have in the ice

After practice guys are firing pucks round and he goes over puts his arm around Morgan Riley. He's giving him advice What would he say to him boys? For me, it's very much the, what would he say to him, boys? For me, it's very much the same conversation as he had with Willie Nylander, where it's like, I'm not trying to, we say I'm not trying to change him, I'm trying to hear him.

I'm not trying to figure out, I'm trying to hear him out. I'm trying to hear him out. I would like to hear from Morgan, do you feel different? Is there something that's happening or that, you don't like your partner? No, I think it's completely opposite from Willie.

Okay. And I got two words for him, play faster. That's it. He's too slow to go back. He's too slow coming up the ice. He thinks he has more time than he has. He is playing slow. There's no pace of play for him at all. And he's got to get faster. You want to be a guy that can drive play. You want to be our number one defenseman. You got to pick up your pace of play. It's not good enough.

He's too lackadaisical back there. The first goal was he's too slow. It's soft. He tried to make a bump up to a home burg up the middle with his back towards the wall. It's like too casual. Everything's casual and slow. He's faster than this. We've seen it before. He's not 37. He's 30. He can get faster again. I don't know what that means. But is it mental? Is it physical? Is it both? But play faster. Okay. Thanks, coach. Yeah, you know, I'm just looking at his skating stats on NHL Edge to kind of see where he is.

His like top skating speed is in the 72nd percentile. Last year was in the 85th percentile. So his top speed has slowed down from last year. If that means anything, as one burst over the course of the season, but- I'm sorry, that's 14% difference? Yeah, okay. Speed burst- Five is a big deal.

Speed burst over 20 miles per hour last year He was in the 96th percentile. So for the amount of speed burst over 20 and this year he is in the 83rd percentile so another 13 percent drop so he is not Playing at a speed that he has played with and in the past. That's where I like that. I went it backs me up Call that confirmation bias. That is legitimate. like that, when it backs me up. I call that confirmation bias, my friend. That is legitimate. He is.

But no, and the thing with him is the biggest strength of his game is his pace and his feet and being able to fly up and down the ice. And it's like, if that's going away, then what? So I think... Do we have another one on Morgan? The only thing you can do when you're a good skater like Morgan to try to get faster is what lose five pounds? Yeah, I don't know, you know get lighter again. I don't know Is it a conditioning thing with those right?

Tired you got no ability to you know, you wake up at five in the morning the kids like I don't give me a six Granola bars. Did you have a second? There's another one on his where he's at in terms of his okay stick with it. Yeah Good to know he's pretty he's a good pro I mean he just comes to work and he keeps it pretty quiet to himself You know he he knows that he he wants to be better and he's just trying to work through it I mean and we're trying to help them. That's as coaches that's our job Hey, if it wasn't a great pro To your point a little earlier, maybe you'd be taking a lot more heat

But one way or another it's if it doesn't improve it's coming. It's just it's really hard to imagine a world where the Leafs Don't get through in playoffs and the guy who said the right things, worked hard, and been pretty good in the postseason is the one they would like move on from or do something about. It feels like he's gonna be here. So it's a matter of figuring this out as much as we did the Riley for Miller thing. You know, I love my cross-sport references in baseball, which that guy who listens hates baseball. But oftentimes, if you have one of your top three hitters or top four hitters in the lineup say Boba Shet For example, and he's over his last ten games. He's hitting like under under a hundred

You move him down to the six hole You move him down to the seven hole you let him get out of the spotlight of the top four the lineup and you let Him like at what point here you got to diminish his role a bit. That's actually a really good point Okay, you're gonna get him in soft power play like they can't take him off anymore. The best defensive pair in the league defensively to try to shoehorn this guy in there that's killing you a lot of nights. You have to just diminish the role more. I'm sorry but it's just not been good. I mean hey, it's a suggestion In a world where you're looking for answers I wrote an article today in the Toronto Star with ranting in and Marner as a comparable and the biggest one with

Ranting in that Colorado was like the tough love that they showed Ranting in it's like in this case In the contract case in the contract case where it's like, hey, this is it. Don't like it? Gone. Out. And of course, there's a huge difference between no move and limited move. But clearly, the Leafs haven't shown over the last eight, nine, ten years that they

want to go down that path of tough love, Sammy. Diminishing in tough love. Is Morgan have a limited no move or something? A complete no move up until I think the last two years, if I'm not mistaken, in his deal. But they need them, guys. That's the bottom line. I think that's why you won't see that tough love is because At this critical point of the season going into the playoffs with the what under 30 games to go

like They got to get healthy. I lose them. You got to get healthy You got to get Morgan going and I more than ever believe that they need offensive help here Yeah, you know There is a there's a rut in this season right now In Florida and Tampa Bay everybody's hitting walls. Yeah Yeah, it's true. You know, I am concerned by some of the rumblings I hear around the Leafs and I don't know what you're hearing Kip

But like it doesn't feel like they feel like they have to make a big move. It doesn't feel to me like the Leafs are shopping for Dylan Cousins as much as I want them to. I mean, those are really hard in season deals. And I've just seen a big one that hasn't happened in years in Rantanen. And I don't think that they think necessarily that has to be the answer. I don't know how they're gonna feel in like three weeks

coming off of, you hope the West can calm things down, the Western trip here, it's gonna be tough. Edmonton, Calgary, Vancouver, Seattle, it will be tough. But if they can manage a way to get- Just get through it two and two and get to The break five out of eight points, right? You're gonna be fine It does feel like more than the last week of school It feels like we're doing the last week of school thing for three weeks here

Like there's still lots of hockey to go tons of hockey Can I think another you know if we're doing things that are upsetting some Leaf fans? I think the mat the play of Max Domi here has to be brought up a little bit. Yeah, and you know if we're doing things that are upsetting some leaf fans I think the map the play of Max Domi here has to be brought up a little bit Yeah, and you know I love the signing of him. I was really excited about it. I love what he represents I love the last name. I love the way he plays when he's at his best but him making the most out of any Non core for forward for this team at this point and what he's given them. It's tough spot here.

I don't know. Maybe they try him with Matthews and those guys to get them going. They try to figure something out. But right now it's a sore spot for Leaf fans because he's really not giving them enough fellas. He's not. I'm not seeing a lot of chemistry out of Craig Brovey and Max Domi. Oh yeah.

I think, yeah. Really? Like in terms of what? Well, just it, I don't know how much Craig Berube prioritizes finding a way to get Max going, which to me is the ultimate one is put him with Austin. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a good point.

It does feel like you shouldn't have to jump start the guy who just got the new contract. But yeah, it's tough. You know, I get killed sometimes and I'm like, yeah, you know, Kerfoot wasn't bad at three and a half. It's like he gave you 50 even strength points when you killed penalties, you know, that's the same dollars actually, it's more dollars for Max. What are you getting? So, you know, it's like chunky and I think you should, yeah, what's your thing? What do you do? You got to figure that out. Yeah, I just I I'm so hesitant to get on him because like I said, I love the player. I love what he represents. I love what he did last year. He was really

good. He's first guy into every fight. Looks like he cares. Like I love it. Yeah, it's not personal judgment on the person who we like. They need the offense out of him. They really do. He's one of the guys who we like. They need the offense out of him. They really do. He's one of the guys outside the core that's most important. He was a depth guy. He was that guy that could come in and chip in 50 legit points and move up and down your lineup. I mean last year he's 47 points.

In 23 he's 49 points. Like there's some years in there where it's like, okay this guy can do it. So Playing more than last year too. It's just I've never yelled shoot at my TV more like I Cabriolet I guess had some moments when I was a kid where I'd be yelling to shoot but like just Can I leave it on a good note? Yes Joseph wall still gave him a chance to get points at the end of the game. What a goalie. Okay. So at least it's still there.

The goal-tenning, but I mean, I, I certainly, and a breakaway for Willie don't want to continue to post put pressure on wall and, and stole ours to now keep teams under two goals every night. You'd like to give them three here and there. You know, the other thing that kind of bothered me last night is pulling the goalie. Like there's about two and a half minutes to go and Austin and Marner and Willie are going out there. And it's like, okay, but but like think about this for a second you're really putting them out there to stay out there for two and a half

minutes yeah I assume there'd be a timeout in there it just it has to be managed a little better because now I'm watching with a minute to go Marner going back and trying to lug the puck up under a minute and he spent you know I saw the clock at 45 seconds and I was like that they don't have a time already. They're done He can't make a play. You can't think we've all been in that position once the oxygen is out of our our head Right, you can't think no oxygen is nothing I thought I thought they were I mean they were really good after they scored for like,

what was it? 12 minutes of a game. It turns out you can't play 12 minutes of a game and win, but I thought they're really good after they scored, but they just didn't have enough. Gus made some good saves towards the end. But anyways, and to be fair, he did play well. All right. So we'll take a quick break.

We'll return. Stellar tricity is in the house. Scored Stalick analysts for sports net 590, the fan and former general manager, will join us next. Don't go away. More real kipper and born after these words. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the hockey PDO cast with Dmitri Filipovic. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome back into the real Kipper and Boran show. All right. He's wonderful. He's talented. Put your hands together for the lovely Gord Stalek. Hello Gordo. Gentlemen. How are you? Well, I am good.

I'm just waiting to deliver some Stalek tricity kiosks down to the Maple Leaf dressing room. I think they could use some. Good. We're really happy to hear that because Sammy's down. He's a little down right now. We need some positive Stel Electricity in the house here. How do Sammy and Leaf fans kind of get rejuvenated? Because it seems like everybody's waiting for this foreign nations break and how much they talk about Morgan Riley needing it more

than anyone, but still some important games here coming up on the West Coast here, Gord. Yeah, there are there are and also, you know, Kip the adjusted. It's just important to get back like again, peaks and valleys, right? So you can't when you're a better team have the valleys, you know, be that low. Like you got to get back again peaks and valleys right so you can't when you're a better team have the valleys you know be that low like you got to get back on track I mean it really is the dog days I found January whether you're on the meat fortunate to be on the media side like we are when you're working or playing like it's a grind it's a it's a real real

grind and there's been and it's funny when they're losing it's reminded me of the Roger Nielsen days that there's a certain system that you play as a team, but when you lose, it's boring, right? So that's kind of been another element. So just a lot of things have not been going their way. I think the one positive thing, it's off the ice. And again, it didn't work a couple of years ago when they were in the all Canadian division because that appeared to be a weak division.

But guys, look at the last two years, how the Eastern teams coming back to the pack, Boston, Tampa Bay, the New York Rangers, like really Florida stands alone. Washington certainly has been an exciting team and had a great season. But in the West, there's so many great teams in the West compared to the East. And I think, you know, Carolina making that bowl trade shows, boy you you've got a much easier path to go deep in the playoffs but again I repeat that happened that one year in the Canadian division so the most promising news I can give to Sammy is nothing on the ice but off the ice. Do you think that Craig Barubey's experience coaching a team that was not

far in the way the most talented elite group in the St. Louis Blues all the way to winning a Stanley Cup influences the lack of panic or lack of urgency depending on where you sit that he shows in his interviews when talking about this team because It seems that you know, they lose three in a row and he's like, yeah, they've been pretty good. They're working hard It'll go in soon You know is it maybe just his influences knowing that you don't have to be electric and high-flying all the time to have success in the playoffs? Well, I think fans are ready for anything, willing to accept anything, because the flat-out, they just haven't had that success. And you know, Justin, let's face it, Sheldon Keefe did a great job, great record as a coach, but he came in as a replacement to Mike Babcock as the team was going down the sewer and about to mutiny, whereas Craig Barube comes with kind of what Babcock arrived with, that kind of big star cache. So people sit back and kind of see if he can work his magic or whatever it is. And we look

at, much like Kipy has 1994, the year it all came together with the Rangers, we're thinking of that year with the Blues, but then after that, the only one-one playoff series the next four years or, you know, so it's not like it was something year after year after year, but I think that year is what, hey, what he should dine on, you know, what fans look back on and feel this could be the necessary or required element for the Leafs to get, well,

all the way to the Stanley Cup, but at least into the third round or something like that. So I think people are sitting back and believing because of his track record, deservedly so, that it's going to make a difference. You're watching and listening to Gord Stelick, Toronto Maple Leaf Analyst for Sportsnet 590, the fan and former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leaf. So Gord, it wasn't that far off ago.

We were coming off of a five game winning streak and it looked like they may have been able to even distance themselves past Florida or Tampa in the Atlantic division. And we were almost looking at, hey, could they finish first overall? Could they get a president's trophy? Now last night we see Florida win

and the Leafs drop into second in the Atlantic Division is connect hurt them, you know in terms of Psychologically here moving forward a little bit seeing them out of that position that many of us thought that They could legitimately hold on to till the rest of the year Yeah, absolutely I mean So you're trying to look for something different. And we've talked about it all year.

Make Scotiabank Arena a tough place to play in. Get home ice advantage in the playoffs, okay? So you ideally could draw a weaker opponent, which there seemed like there will be something like that, something different, something you can sink your teeth into. And I've been talking about, but they're joining, you're joining the accordion here, that accordion in the East. And Kipi, you probably know the Schmengi brothers, that was great. But also remember the great legendary Johnny and Jimmy on Dining for Dollars?

You know, all that stuff. You don't see the accordion very often anymore. So all of a sudden, they're starting to get pressed in. Tampa Bay and Boston are worse, but the Leafs are, no, come on, come on, come on, let's get it back there. Let's get some breathing room. Let's kick a little ass. Okay.

Get away from the guys in the shallow end. Yeah, I like that. Brilliant. I feel like the theory. Very well done, Gord. So as they, you know, kind of go through this malaise, if you will, how much do you chalk it up to injuries? Like John Tavares is whatever you think of his contract, he's an important player for this team.

Matthew Nyes has missed games. They've had a lot of guys out this year, Gordon. So it's funny, Justin, you look at the Boston Bruins, you know, they've been struggling. No Hampus Lindum, no Charlie McEvoy. Like wow, I mean, those are two pieces. But what surprises you is the Bruins, because they've been a better team the last whatever number of years than the Leafs, when they had those injuries, somebody put a Bruin jersey on,

like say Mike Riley did or whatever, and came up and filled that void. And that's something the Leafs did when they had all those forwards injured. Last year when they had their bunch of D injured, it seemed like they played their best kind of hockey. So it's part of the game. If you're going to be one of the elite teams, which they should be then I I can't stand injuries as the go-to excuse

We've heard it from the Jays for so many years about that that so so it is part of the game and and I You got to be bigger than the officiating calls and you got to be bigger than the injury. So I don't put much into it officiating calls and you got to be bigger than the injury so I don't put much into it. Gordon we've known for the last 10 11 years Morgan Riley's kind of set the tone as the Leafs number one defenseman you've seen over many many years the Toronto Maple Leafs going back to when I was a kid from Boria Salmi to like you know I don't know Brian McCabe Thomas Caberley we've seen some guys carry the mail here over the,

have you ever seen one struggle as much just in terms of individually, like Morgan in this last stretch? Well, you know, it's funny, I mean, Brian McCabe was one that played on the Olympic team and then really struggled, but there were rule changes that came in in 2005, which you know really impacted his play.

Morgan Raleigh is an interesting case. So to answer your question, Kipi, probably no, because there's been no other regular stalwart on D, period. I mean, everybody else, whether it's Lilla Grant or Sandin or Guy Percy, guys they drafted, they don't stay for a long time or a good time. So Morgan Rielly, what he's been at the top of his game, you know, been huge, never a Norris Trophy guy, but certainly a good number one,

number two kind of defenseman. And it just shows the difference that last year, you remember when he was getting suspended. Well, you know, before the suspension was announced, I mean, everyone was, you know, like, oh my God, oh my God, what's gonna happen? Then the, oh, he got suspended five games. Now they're asking what's going on with them.

And even Craig Berube mentioned that, like, you know, and he just said, whether it's you got to do reps, you got to do whatever. I don't know what it is, but that's why he's not, you know, Kale McCarr or somebody like that over the last seven, eight years, because there's a 20-goal season, there's some excellent hockey,

and there's some ordinary hockey. And think, okay, who's this partner going to be? We all know how well it worked in a short sample with Luke Shen, but also when you're one of the top two D on the team, you're supposed to make the other D better. You know, it's the kind of thing that you should be, they should send someone to partner with you to help their game. So that is one of the things you hope gets on track because there's no question there's

been ordinary hockey from them. I mean we saw it with Cabriolet a bit, you know, that and then fans can get on D a little bit a little bit quicker than they do on other positional players. But I've compared this D to hopefully what the Leafs were like in 93-94 when you you know you didn't have studs. You had Jamie McCowen, Sylvan Lefebvre, Dave Ellett, Bob Rouse, and one more. Anyway, it'll come to me, but anyway, so that's the kind of, Todd Gill, of course, how am I forgetting Todd Gill? Anyway, that's what I'm looking from that D. And they added Oliver Ekman-Larson,

they added Chris Tannib, two excellent additions. So you're hoping you can get kind of that good pack mentality, but there's no question question you need to get the best of Morgan Riley and the other one is the goaltending like what that that's to me the big question mark. It was number one in the league before Stolar's got hurt doesn't have to be number one in the league. But what is it going to be in game number 83?

How do you feel so about I was going to ask you the outdoor practice they had the other day Kip and I talked about how cool the pitcher they have they all the you feel about the outdoor practice they had the other day? Kip and I talked about how cool the picture they had, the Toronto skyline in the background. How has the relationship with this team off the ice changed over the years? It was really cool seeing guys stick around, sign autographs, fans getting to interact with them. They're tough to access, obviously, in a city like this. You've had a pretty good view of how that's changed. Well, I was the guy, because I watched a lot of Colombo and Matt Locke

and Barney Miller, that picked out Salute Gate. I was there with Ozzy after and he goes, do you think this is a big deal? We're doing our post-game show. And I'm going, yeah, this is brutal. Kessel and them, they're sticking it to the fans. And then it became a big story. And I thought it was a big story because it was brutal. And it just showed the disconnect that that particular group had. I don't know, individuals, a lot of guys on the team I like,

but the disconnect they had about the role of the fans, whatever. So that's something that I've appreciated. The embracing the alumni, which my boss Harold Ballard was brutal about. He used to go, well, when you retire from IBM, they don't put a picture of you up, you know? But that wasn't the point.

I mean, the Toronto-made police are different than IBM. So they've done a lot of those things right. And I think those things really matter, Justin. I think those things really matter. And what I've liked is last year at the All-Star game, guys like Austin Matthews, Morgan Reilly, but Willie Nylander, just very comfortable with their roles, embracing they wanna be here.

They understand that there's more notoriety here. There's not the great weather here, but then really comfortable about themselves as individuals, how they fit and a real, and I like that. I think that's a huge, huge positive. And we haven't had that for a long, long time, particularly homegrown players that want to stay. And so let's just hope it means something in the playoffs. Then you'll own the town forever. Okay. And then people will be talking to you with the same old questions every year, because you talk anybody you know Gary Roberts another example you know you had huge success elsewhere there's no place

to play like Toronto your Toronto experience is something that resonates in a very positive way the rest of your life. Gordon we saw Austin Matthews Matthews named captain of the team USA for the four nations face-off and I think there's still some markets even one here in Toronto that still worry about players being hurt but you know is there a chance that this tournament can kind of do something maybe for Matthews or even Marner maybe even Willie if with team Sweden that maybe reminded us of a Mario Lemieux coming out party with Wayne Gretzky in the 80s with Team Canada, Canada Cup?

Oh, absolutely. Like, you know, people forget Mario, his first six seasons, the Penguins only made the playoffs once, okay? So he was on a bad team. And it was, so to be able to play with those excellent players and elevate your game, I think was really significant.

And then I don't, you know, they had better players around them, but they won two consecutive Stanley Cups. And I think that's a great comparable Kip. And, you know, it's funny, I look back, we had Paul Henderson, Ron Ellis in 1972, Daryl Siddler and Lanny McDonald became the big surprise line in 1976. Boria Sauming was huge on team Sweden in 76. And then nothing. Had Brian McCabe, the one year play for a Canada team, it was disappointing. Of course, Mats enjoyed that great gold medal with Sweden, I think it was 2006.

So really there's not been Toronto players even on a team for a long, long time. So I think it's a great opportunity for all three of them to play at that level, to play the equivalent of, hey, Stanley Cup final games, you know, just basically unchartered waters for them in the National Hockey League. And you look at Austin's going to be wearing the C, Willie's going to be wearing the A, you know, a little bit of a leadership thing that way.

So I think it could be a hugely positive experience, which I think hopefully, you're always trying to correlate it, you know, how will it benefit the Leafs? I got to think it would be a positive. You think Leafs want Chris Tanev to go play for Canada? Well, yes, but I still, I got to say my first answer always is, first Tanev is so similar to Patrangelo, but boy oh boy, Drew Doughty is a guy that, when he wears the Canadian colours, and I liked that back when they won in 2014, it was a boring team that Babcock coached,

except Drew Doughty said, screw it, I'm gonna play my way. Or everyone else played the system. He said, screw it, I'm gonna play the Drew Doughty way. And I always liked that. So he's still my number one guy just based on his pedigree and history. But it says a lot that when you say Chris Tanner's name,

the quick thing is as good a defensive shutdown, defenseman as there is in the NHL. So that's a compliment in itself, but those would be my one and two picks. Oh yeah. Great job there, Barney Miller. Okay. Thanks fish.

I feel like I missed half of this segment. Yes. Go Google the sevent segment. Yes. Go Google the 70s, okay? The lovely Gord Stelec, Stelectricity always great on the show. Thanks, Gordo. See you guys. See you bud. Yeah. I am hoping for Lee fans that like one of those guys comes back and especially Austin

to be honest with you, like there's still times like the last game or the last couple games where you're like, does not, does not like have that, that, that continuous step, right? That, that shot out of a cannon step. We see it when it's there and then when it's not there, it kind of slows down. Yeah, yeah. He's been better. You know, like I liked him last night. It's come, I know what you mean though. He's definitely at his best when he's skating.

He's just got a score. That's all. I mean, at the end of the day. I ripped that one off the bottom of the crossbar last night. We had a conversation yesterday about Drew Doughty. He led the Kings in ice time. No way. He led the Kings and I said no way 2351 I Said 25. Yeah, I said I think I might have said I think you said about 23 Yeah, then we're close 23, but they were never I think really in the game There's also a dash to I think if you three nothing lost

I think if they front somehow found a way of protecting a lead he probably would have got up to 27 28 Honestly, if they want him there and he is healthy when the time comes he'll be there Yeah, like he doesn't need to go out and shoot it in the net a bunch like the other thing too is He is a character too. Like he's a personality a real one. You want to you want to engage people for the next two weeks with a a real one. You want to engage people for the next two weeks with a guy that can play like that, but still be a draw for people to kind of... He's the man. He's the man. He's the man. You can sell the game, that's for sure. Take him. No question about it. All right. Our thanks to Gord Stelick. That was a fast hour. When we return,

Jason Yorke, co-host of Coming in Hot Sense podcast will join us and we'll get into the other captains as well. Also named in the Force Nations tournament. Back after these words, real Kipper and Bourne.