Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Lacking Leadership in Game 5

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 4-0 loss to the Ottawa Senators in Game 5. They get into the Leafs' closeout struggles, why there's still reason to be optimistic, Auston Matthews' rough game, the team's lack of leadership and compete, and much more. Hockey Night in Canada's Craig Simpson (34:21) shares what's changed for the Senators in the last two games, why the Leafs' core continues to struggle in the postseason and the team's lack of accountability.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Let's welcome everybody into the real kipper and born show. We are live on sports at five 90 the fans sports net 360 and sports net plus Nick Kiprios, Justin born Sammy McKee, Derek Brandio, Jake, the snake Schultz, where we're going to, we're going to reverse things today. We're going to, we're're gonna start off with our national program of our show where we'll lead in with the Carolina Hurricanes advancing to the second round with a huge double overtime.

Win, Sammy, you go first. Okay, I thought- You like the third line? I thought that I screwed up the lineup, so I was scared. But usually when you do something like that, I thought I screwed up the lineup, but I was scared. But usually when you do something like that, I screw up the lineup, and I was like, previously looking at mine. I've never been more scared to do a Leaf Hour edition

of our show than right now. Really? Not even after Eliminations have I been this uncomfortable leading into an hour. Really? Yeah. Oh, come on, boys. We're born for this.

I don't want you talking about the Leafs today. I think you need a break but emotional Damage loved you to tell me that like around one when I came in here. I would have just stayed home Last night you guys did leaf talk right with bunkus. Yeah Yeah, I I tuned in. Oh, yeah, I did first time first time Yeah, no problem and I Tell you what maybe some of the most Pathetic

Analysis sad analysis between the three of you I was scared like especially you Sammy where it I was scared like especially you Sammy where it Listening to you last night on that show was like thinking of a of a child near a hot stove Yeah, it's just you need to protect. Yes. Yeah. Yes The good news is that the reaction pod that leaves talk exists So Sammy can like be going to therapy unburden himself immediately and then come today with a more measured. Did a good night's rest help you between your leaf talk last night and coming into our show?

It's really hard to talk about this. At my core and you know it's doing this for as ever many years as I have has changed my relationship a little bit but at my core I am I am a die-hard Toronto Maple Leafs fan. And the dream scenario for me is TV off, lights off, bed. Like that is the dream scenario. Cough and pose, hands on chest. Do not wanna talk about it. There's nothing I wanna say,

like I just want it to pretend that it doesn't exist, and that now is not a reality that I can deal with. And doing the shows after is really, really hard. And coming in here today, I'd be lying to you boys if I said it wasn't really, really hard. But I have a lot of things that are rattling around in this crazy brain of mine right now. And I have to figure out what I actually wanna say

because when you zoom out, the Toronto Maple Leafs are leading a playoff series three to two. They're okay. I believe both of us picked the Toronto Maple Leafs to win this series in six games. We did. I did, yes. It's really, as hard as I'm squinting right now That's the most positivity I can come up with but all the other stuff is pure

Ghouls and ghosts and negativity. So Little a little quick on the trigger there I had it lined up for something else, but he jumped all over me. So, all good. Keep composure. We've, yeah, it's the same as it's always been. Like, you, no matter how ugly it is in elimination games, if there's still a chance, there's still a chance. And whether we're talking about the Leafs or any of us, the reason why we keep going back to the golf course is like there's

another chance. Yes, today is the day I'll be a new guy to get it right. Yeah, absolutely better. I'll be better tomorrow. They still have a chance until they don't have a chance. Of course, they have a better than average chance. That's all he's saying. I think the book said 80%.

Right. That's all he's saying. What else is there to go by? I have nothing. What else is left? Well. I have nothing else. What else?

The best predictor of future performance is unfortunately checking my notes, past performance. And so what else is there to go by leads to the inevitable conversations of, it looked like it's looked. And so I too share your sentiments that I believe that Leafs are gonna win the series. I believe that they'll win on Thursday night in Ottawa. I genuinely do believe that.

But there's no doubt now that you can't even call it an elephant in the room because we're all looking at the elephant, we're hanging out with the elephant, we know about the elephant. It's just crazy that the elephant's here. It's arrived. It is blown down the door and the elephant is here. It's the same cast of characters. Nate believes in potential series clinchers since 2018

one win and 13 losses 23 goals scored 48 goals against their power play is one for 31 for a 3.2 percent and they have to shut out losses over that time Who scored the goal? Kipper do you have any idea? Any idea who scored the power play goal for the Toronto Maple Leafs? The last one?

In a power play goal in an elimination game, the last one? I'll say Gary Vault. Not that far off. Oh, okay. Patrick Marleau. Okay. In 2018. The last time a power play goal was scored

by a Toronto Maple Leafs in an elimination game, it was Patrick Marleau. We have it. Mm-hmm Oh my god, what a producer It's color hockey, which is which helps game seven first two minutes of the game 29 would be Willie then Willie And that's on Jase Yonza There Jake Gardner with the shot 28 okay, it's the year

Get the point. It's been a minute Okay, this era of Lee's hockey kipper is putting together the most Unclutched resume in the history of professional sports There's no other way to put that put it mind-bottling isn't it what other? Close no, there's no 13, but he I used like the reference of John van de Vel but like he was one man. Yeah Anyway 1 and 13 that's physically almost feels like impossible.

So when you say that you truly believe that they can, that they're going to win. I do. Okay. Yeah. And it's based on just the percentages of the more at bats you get, there's got to be at some point you're going to get a hit. Nope. I believe that their hockey team is better than Ottawa's hockey team. And I as much as you can twist

it all around into they haven't done it past whatever, I don't look across the rink and see where are they better? I mean, look at the regular season we pick a stat they're better. They scored more more they gave up less their Goaltending was better their power play was better regular season regular season Okay, but this is the playoffs and the first three games that were tighten up and things get More intense sure but they have yet to prove over their careers that they could rise To that level yet, of course So I if you tell me they're more talented,

if you tell me that the regular season stats are better, it doesn't equate to what is going on in the here and now. Yep. Five on five, it was pretty obvious. In the past, I've looked across at the other team and thought, God, that other side has some stone cold killers, and that'll be the difference.

It's gonna be Kucherov, Headman, Nick Paul, and that little crew, or it's gonna be Barkov and Reinhardt and all but it isn't gonna be Stutzla It's not gonna be Kachuk just yet Pastornak right and on this in on this team. I don't see those guys on that side as good as they are I'm not saying they're not good players I'm saying they're not on that at Hall of Fameelon yet. And the Leafs have the best D they've ever had. I think if the D can keep them close again, at some point, they're going to score some goals. Okay. I

know it sounds insane. It sounds insane, but I do believe it. Okay. I mean, I don't believe I if nor should you. I'm the one who's out on a limb here gun to my head 100% losing Thursday 100% losing Saturday Gun to my head I Don't know and I can't go either way. I'm not strong on they're gonna find a way and I'm not strong on They're gonna blow it So I'm just like I've been around this game a lot longer. I'm a little older, but it's as if I'm watching this team

for the first time ever. So funny you say that, you know, people who you run into on the street, or you know, you're the expert and they go, what's going on, are they gonna win tonight? And like, I find myself being like, I should have an answer aside from I have No clue. I don't know what what to expect

So Kip, I think Sam and I have kind of painted where how we feel about last night a little bit Yeah, let's hear it Yeah, really comes down to me this time of year Your leadership group and last night they lacked leaders leaders among men They had a ample opportunity after coming close to in in Ottawa the other night to really Buckle down in front of your fans your town You had a chance to really double down on this is different and it wasn't.

And you missed that opportunity and they lacked leadership last night. It needs to surface tomorrow night. And we know who they are. And they were insulated differently this year. And we thought up until this week, it was the difference, but it's not enough of a difference if these core guys, and it's always the core guys, in our sport, it's the core guys.

They don't step up, man. It's hard. It is really hard. Edmonton last night for me not to, you know, we got a national show. But last night, dry saddle and McDavid needed guys around them to step up. And to me, they won the game without dry saddle and McDavid needing to carry them. But up until then they were they were it for the Oilers and we have yet to see that out of the out of the Leafs in elimination games. Well I was gonna say like they have gotten moments from guys outside of the core in this series like that's the thing that's the difference

where Simone Benoit scored an overtime goal, Ove Reckman-Larsen has two goals in this series, Max Domi scored. But it can only go so far until your guys have to be your guys, your main guys, your leaders. And that's what the difference is. When it gets to these games, you need your highest paid superstars to take over. And quite frankly, none of them were any good at all last night. And I think all of us can sit here and agree. Let's go to Craig Berube on his overview of the game.

Good start. You know, they got the first goal. They defended pretty well after that. I thought, you know, we can't, we make a bad play and a power play. We had an opportunity in the power play to, you know, get it back. It didn't happen. We got to be more direct there with our power play. I didn't think our power play was direct enough tonight in you know shot volume and getting stuff to the net but you know we got a and then the third period like you know that obviously that power play hurt us.

I thought their power play looks really good before the Nyes penalty. Yeah it did it was it was for a great word it's been earlier on in the series without actually scoring a goal. Mm-hmm so Let's talk about Austin Matthews You know, he has that pizza turnover and just a one nothing game. He has a two on one where he air mails one You know the the one where he air mailed it I was texting You know, the one where he airmailed it, I was texting someone at the time, it might have been you or whoever, and just said like, if Steven Lorenz were on that 2-on-1, what would he have done differently?

You know, no fakes, no deception, doesn't look over, you know, to sell pass, just shot it over the net. And then Lorenz came down the next period after I sent that text in the same spot and made the best move of the team. You know, showed some poise, cut to the middle, brought it back. I know it went on a little longer than we would have liked and he didn't put it away. But it's it's baffling watching Matthews look like a 20 goals, 60, 70 goals score and you got to hit the net and not just hit it like give me a lean, a pompa, juke, a...

Does he freeze this time of year? Is that a frozen moment? Because it doesn't look anything like he does when he's at the height of his regular season greatness. Well, it looks a lot like it looked for a long stretch of this season. But still, Sam, even when he's not looking dynamic or whatever, you put him in that spot with the puck. He does that cheeky thing where your goalie is thinking he's going to put it up by the ears and he'll just whip one along the ice and like, you know, goalies are looking at the ceiling, something you don't expect them to do.

And it's just like, I didn't expect them to do that. Anyway. It's now, I think it's two goals in his last 15 playoff games for Austin Matthews. You know, you've become the captain, they stripped Tavares of the cabin, see they put two goals in his last 15 playoff games for Austin Matthews. You know, you become the captain, they strip the Varsity Cavalry, they put it on you. I'm sure he's feeling a total new sense of pressure. He's never gone, I don't believe that this town has ever, I don't know if the right word, turned on him.

Like we've seen it through for Marner multiple times, but what I'm hearing from last night to tonight is a whole new world on the way fans are looking at him today. And I think the main reason is, is that he's the captain is that this organization made the decision to take it off of a hometown guy and Put it on him at the start of this very important year It's Dvarys is in a contract here And I think being the captain of the Leafs having this offensive responsibility all this different stuff for this team He's feeling it. He's feeling it. I know I don't think that I think that changed the perception amongst people because I totally agree Kipper I think Matthews has worn a lot but not as much as Marner all agree you a thing on that one

But right now I don't think there's any comparison in Who's taking it worse right now between Marner and Matthews like Marner is still looked very similar Like he's looked maybe it's people think he's leaving whatever. It's just they're used to that Yeah, but the Matthews thing right now is taking the ships kind of sailed on on Mitch and maybe it's it might be because people Think he's believe he's leaving so they're not gonna sink a lot of energy into it right now But the focus on Matthews now going into game six. I can't think of a more important game He's ever played his whole life. I don't care if it's world juniors. I don't care if it was Four Nations. I don't care where he's played.

Game six will be the most important 60 minutes of his career. And what happens? Yeah, I mean, it's funny, right? Cause like he has the security and the contract and the captaincy. They're not gonna trade Matthews if it looks like last night in game six. But in terms of what you said about Marner and people at times turning on him, whatever, Matthews would very much be eligible

for that sort of treatment, I feel like, where people are just like- Oh, it's happening. Yeah, it's currently happening. It's happening. So I agree. And the one thing I do take some comfort I feel like, where people are just like... Oh, it's happening. Yeah, it's currently happening. It's happening. So I agree. And the one thing I do take some comfort in is like, you know, you've seen him in big spots his first game of his career or, you know, whatever, where he's, he's, you feel

like he can find it a bit. But I do think that it'll be interesting to see if this has his attention a little bit, if he's aware of the way that people are talking about it now. Is he, can he handle it? Is it gonna make him stronger? Is it gonna push him? Or does it sink him even deeper than what he's already in right now? I don't think he can, quite frankly. If I look at his elimination game stats over his career, boys, I don't know if he can handle it. I got, he can prove me wrong on Thursday,

he can prove me wrong potentially on Saturday, that's fine. But the thing, like I said this a bit on Leastalk and you listener, big listener, thanks skipper, last night. But just these two games have just totally changed what the feeling is around this version of the Leafs. Or if they finish that off and overtime, Matthews pokes that over the line, they sweep them. You're allowed to dream about going.

Even if they win this series, you got the Florida Panthers, you can barely beat the Ottawa Senators. It just changes the total feel around this team and even around him. It does. The thing, you know, and then I watched Marner in that game last night. And the one thing that he does in these games that drives me a little crazy is there's a chance at the Leafs end and the puck squirts out and goes to him chances, push it back the other way in a rush.

And he does that slow lateral, like let everyone get back and get set up. Both of them feel like they just don't have that like, now it's our turn to go. Like put them on their heels, make them answer the question. And I don't know, I don't know how you inspire that, but you have to almost be comfortable in that. And I don't know that you can just Again, it's not a choice. It's in you. Yeah. Now, I mean, and it's spread like Willie Nylander. Like, I don't know, for those of you

that are watching our program, we just showed the shorthanded goal. Can we go back and see it one more time? Because just watch Willie Nylander on the back check. Please guys, tell me how's a minute and a half in how I don't Care. I don't care Okay, if you're gonna be out there a minute and a half then you better have enough juice to come back and help But he is almost lined up with cousins here. I mean he's ahead of him

he's ahead of him and I think Mitch Marner's playing more on the strong side because he thinks Willie's gonna come back and he just shuts it down. Like to lift up before the puck gets to Cousins to me is quitting on the play. What happens if he gets a save and there's a rebound? Like why do you quit? Because you've been out there a minute and a half?

This is the playoffs, man. This is your season, your legacy, all of that will come back on these type of moments. Lack of leadership. Back to lack of leadership. But you know what's funny, Kip, is like, we're talking about these guys because Chris Tanev last night was unbelievable. He was so good. The pucks they were loose pucks around the goal line. Morgan Riley pulled two pucks off

the goal line. One off the goal line one that he just dove and kept a stick. The Tanev play at the side of the net with Drake Babinson. He's like I'm stronger and better at this. You know if the Leafs go through the list of D they've had in that spot in years past, that's a goal again. And Tanev just out muscles someone. So my point about leadership, Jake McCabe, you know, whoever, they've got some leaders on the D, on the back end. No? You don't see it from Tanev, McCabe, Pryley. But they're not, they're not game changers

No, your leadership has to come from the guys that can change a game those guys can defend They can hold you into a two one score. Yes, or one nothing score But they are limited they are limited and it's just It's it's enough until it's not enough anymore anymore And then so we're talking about the same thing you can call it leadership, but it's just these guys playing bad That's all you know like a beyond those guys we can point some fingers I'd like to see more out of Bobby McMahon whatever but when you know if they were lose a series no one's gonna go Yeah, but McMahon. You know we will mention it on our tenth show after the year or yeah, but McMahon, you know, we will mention it on our 10th show after the year or whatever. But yeah, I might get a mention on locker clean out. Yeah. Let's get Craig Brewie's thoughts on the Matthews line. Craig, what, what did you see from the Matthews

line tonight? Did they generate enough for your liking? Yeah. Um, I thought like not enough speed through the neutral zone with that line and then creating things in the offensive zone off that like they were just a little bit late on things and didn't create enough stoppages in the offensive zone. And you know, it was one and done too much for me with that line tonight, you know, in the offensive zone That's that speed through the neutral zone. I totally agree with that. I Like his answer maybe in November

Early January on those guys now and say they stunk I think it's a I think it's a card that all coaches at some point need to play. And again, I can appreciate wanting to keep things behind closed doors. But it's something head coaches do and how hard they want to push publicly. But they don't often in playoffs unless they've mailed it in on their team. Oh buddy, I saw the very best and Mike Keenan. Yeah, he He he benched Brian Leach the year. We won the cup one of the greatest American defensemen in the history of the game shutting him right down saying I can't win with you only

Argument there is that that that's Keenan's character He did that people knew he was about that Ruby hasn't done it once. And it would be crazy to wait till playoffs and be like, Matthews, you know, like, to be fair though, like, these guys gonna respond well to extra pressure from their coach. I got it.

I don't think that's necessarily the move either. Where you put every like, yeah, we need those guys be way better We need those guys be way better I don't think that putting more pressure outward pressure from the market on them is the recipe here kipper. Yeah Well, let's listen to his he has his clip 5 on his message to the team. Let's listen to that stick with it We're up 3-2 in a series. You know, it's playoff hockey. There's a lot of ups and downs. We need composure. I talked about it and we've got to stay composed and stay poised and you know, like I said, we'll figure out some things and be better next game that we'll work on,

you know, but I'm not, you know, that's what it's about. We're up 3-2 in a series so we're confident and we're going to go to Ottawa where we won a game already So that's that's about it Who's that in the background as well Farrell if If his players are listening and they can appreciate that he has that feeling Publicly They they they they got to step up for him, right? Yeah.

There is one clip, sort of from today, on the whole core four, and he kind of alluded to it. So let's play clip seven and get your thoughts on this, this from today. It's on everybody, the team. Yeah, like, I get it. It's all I hear around here is core, core, core, core, core, core, core, core, core, core, but it's on everybody, the team.

We're a team and, you know, it's on the whole team, not just four guys. So I appreciate his message and what he's doing for the team. You know, what do you say to get to people who would say you're overreacting, they're up three to two, they're in a good spot, because I wrote an article today that just why can't these guys get it done? And you know, I had a couple people wrote reply like, hey, they're up in the series, right? This one it's over. So I just feel like it's the bigger picture for people like us

who've watched it for so long it's not it's not a trend yeah five but the trend from yeah it's it's one in 13 yeah it's a trend from you it is it's one in 13 on elimination games and is it coincidental is Is it just bad luck? Is it the referees? Is it what is it? Right? That's the other one I get Matthews is injured. Team, team, team, team. It's it's your nucleus that has to is the focal point on all of it. So I can appreciate what he's saying about the team, but this era 20 years from now, no one's gonna remember the third or fourth line, man.

They're just gonna remember highest paid players in history, not getting the job done. All interchangeable at the end of the day, you know, the third and fourth lines. I know we like the ones they have this year, but looking back on these teams. Yeah, oh no, no, for sure. There'll just be four or five names everybody will remember

and they won't remember when- Colin Blackwell played for them? Blackwell or Lawrence or- Andre Kasha? Kasha played or Yarncroc played. Sam Lafferty? What year Nick Robertson played? Nobody will remember any of that so There is a way they could have lost that game last night and everybody wouldn't be freaking out actually

That's a really good point. They get in an absolute six five fire wagon hockey game. There's a way you lose that game It just can't look like it looked like like that. It's it's a constant. It's not If you lose it's how you lose Absolutely, it's two one important in our game It is it was two one game seven of Boston it was for nothing to Montreal in game seven He was three nothing to Columbus in game five, you know Score a goal. Yeah, love a God Yeah, and also just like it feels like every year we, you know, they

turn the opposing goalie into prime George Vesna. And, you know, I don't think they made it that hard on Omar last night. No. And they're going to have to find a way to have a bit of a different look. And it's a constant. We know how talented these guys are, but I think they play this time of year as if my talent will take over. And the one thing about the greats, even the Gretzky's, the Lemus, the Messier's is that their compete, their talent, doesn't come first. The compete of these guys comes first. Honestly, Sidney Crosby's probably never been better

than the 10th most talented guy in the league or 20th. But number one in compete. Oh, just a freak, right? Absolute passionate freak. He cares more than he do. Yes. Leaf fans have some of the most talent Talented players on the planet when it comes to the game of hockey

But as far as their compete in critical moments like elimination games Average at best. Yeah, I just like you know, Kip you've played enough Road hockey scrimmage games where the temperature gets picked up and you're chopping a teammate in practice and you're like, you know, you just get that feeling. A lot's been made out of Brady Kachuk coming back onto the ice after game five and you could just feel it. We're coming back, okay? Oh, I'm telling you, now you could just feel it. We're coming back.

Okay? Oh, I'm telling you, it's, now you could sit there and say it's an act or it's like. But he, but they showed, I mean, he shot it in the empty net. But you know, you know, you know. Yeah, he wasn't impactful. When someone walks into a room,

it's called having an aura, okay? And it's- Much like you, Kipper. You can feel someone's energy, you can feel someone's energy you can feel someone's intensity Brady has that well and and they fed the beast last night guys, you know, these guys loved their stats They gave him freebies on the empty that now we has that aura on the Toronto Maple Leafs Who has that energy who has that that intensity? Not the intensity none of them stole Matthew Nye's stole ours Matthew Nye's by the way standing up Shane Pinto last night was the highlight

of the game not even close doesn't I know by far the I know it's it's great and it's it's gonna be a great player right now or he's gonna be a great player one day but right now he still doesn't look like he's ready like he's not ready to be to be the Leafs best version of a Josh Anderson for the Montreal Canadians this week. Don't agree at all a Tom Wilson a Brady Kachuk He's not ready. You don't think Matthew Nye's been as good as Brady Kachuk in this series He hasn't had the same influence on his hockey club like Brady has. I give Brady way too much credit. I think he's a great player

and I'd love to have him on my team. I don't think he's been. Okay, I'll give you that. But as far as the intensity he brings. I get it, I get it. As far as having the Leafs looking over their shoulder when he's on the ice, when he's not on the ice, when he's around the goalie

Could he run my goalie could he punch me in the head? Could he put me through the boards? Yeah, you tell me if Ottawa feels the same way when Matthew Nyses is on the ice in three years you could Three years. Yeah, two years. He's but not right now Yeah, he's also not the captain and like like the guy that they've built So it brings me back to my point shots us who can do that this time of year for the Leafs Well, it's obvious Kip who has to do it. We're not curious about that It's missing. It is it's missing. It is missing that brings me back to that that That that energy that, that aura.

We gotta go, but. Gotta find it. Gotta find it in there. Just a quick, you know, there'll be a lot of sickos from other parts of the province listening to this, just other parts of the country, province, that are enjoying this a lot. But I'm so sick for my fellow Leaf fans.

Yeah, I think that's worth noting. You can't even enjoy being up three nothing in a series. That was zero fun last time. You have to, you have to, you get up three, you can't just be happy and excited because everybody's come back. Oh, you guys were excited. Yeah, we were. They were up three nothing.

They had won two overtime games. They were great for the first three games. You can't even get excited about games. You can't even get excited about that. You can't even get that. Anyways, we got to do a quick read before we had to break here, boys. And it's a reminder to golf fans out there. Sportsnet and Muskoka Bay Resort have come together with an amazing contest. Text the word Muskoka to 59590 for your chance to golf at one of Canada's top 10 ranked golf courses with a night and incredible three bedroom villa for you and three friends

Just text word Muskoka to 595 90 for your chance to win visit sports at dot CA slash 590 contest for more details standard Message and data rates may apply the Skoka Bay Club, baby. Let's go Okay, we are in desperate need of a voice of reason. Oh, thank God Craig Simpson will do that for us after the break when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Leaf Hour Edition. I got over ranked on my flipping to the national hour to start her show today. You know how, you know how it's good time to talk sports that are in break conversations continued to be

There was a passion in that you did more talking in that break then we have an Hour before every show we've done in four years hundred percent. I was I guess Yeah, but the good news is we've got Craig Simpson Ready to go here. God Simmer help Simmer help You guys I'm sitting in my hotel room watching you guys and Sammy I'm feeling for you and all your emotion and I was like I should just call in because I should be a part of this conversation. I said forget about coming in the last half hour I said I got to get involved with this now. Thank you thank you because up until now we have solved

nothing we have offered zero to the listener and the viewer. So this is where you come in big time here, Ed. Just talk to us in terms of what you saw early in the series and what you saw last night. Well, what you saw last night was an Ottawa team and I've kind of tried to lay that out as the series has gone on. That's learning

how to play in the playoffs that came in with most guys having no playoff experience. And now you've got five times, you know, five games is a lot of learning curve. And you know, Travis Green has said all along, we're going to try to get better with each and every game. We're going to try to find what with each and every game. We're going to try to find what playoff hockey is all about. And I think Game five was the best example of that. You know, interesting.

They only had 25 hits. In that game. They actually got out hit by the Maple Leafs. And if you look at this first four games, the minimum that they had was 44. I think that's the team that's learning. We don't need to run around and prove we're tougher. We don't need to run out of position. I thought they played a much more controlled game. And as you guys were saying, the Leafs dropped the ball on the opportunity to in their most important

game, maybe for this group, the most defining game of their careers to say, yeah, this this year is different. They failed. You know, they didn't come out and take the game over. They didn't come out and give the energy that you have to have to put a team away. And I'll tell you guys, the one thing I was most disappointed about was after the game and listening to everybody's comments after the game. I heard a lot of, you know, we knew Ottawa is a good team.

We're still up three, two. We're in control of this series. We know that the fourth game is the hardest game to win. All those things. And, you know, Ottawa is a good team. You give them respect. Sure. What I didn't hear, and what's the most disappointing thing to me, and it would be as a teammate, I didn't hear one of the leadership groups say, I failed tonight. I didn't play my best. You know what? We had an opportunity to change everything that's been talked about us for years and I didn't execute to my ability. Our line wasn't good enough. Just give me something that takes some accountability that you missed an opportunity. You weren't at your best, but I won't let it happen again. I'm not saying that you're going to win every game. I'm saying that you're going to lose accountability that you missed an opportunity. You

weren't at your best. But I won't let it happen again, and you can't every win every game and yeah, the fourth is the hardest, but I didn't hear any of that. I heard all we got we had some good looks and you know, we had our chances and

forget it. You've got to say that was a defining game and a defining moment, and I didn't hear anybody take ownership that they weren't good in them. Yeah, you know, it almost like spinning it forward right to the next game, right? Like, oh, you know, we got another chance at this and rather than a look back and sort of self-assessment of how it went. You know, Simmer, I've always had this theory that like as an offensive player in hockey, it's almost like, you know, what do they say in law? The burden of proof is on the defense. You know, you have to go out and show that someone has done something. In offense, you have to go out and show something.

You have to take it to the opposition and create something. When you're nervous and tight, it just, does it get harder to think as clear, to be as creative? What is happening with these guys that they can't put defenses on their heels like they do all season long? Well, you can't be thinking about the end result. It's like when you get to the Stanley Cup final, you can't be thinking about what's

at the end, which is hoisting the Stanley Cup. You think, what makes me the best player I can be? What makes our line click? Well, it's A, you've got to work harder. You got to win every single 50-50 puck battle. You've got to impose my will on the guy I've been playing against, like, in a series. That's the thing, especially when you're a top line guy. You're playing against the same bloody guy each and every night. So you have to make it in his mind that I can't handle this guy. Like you've got to have that mentality that I'm going to go through you.

I'm going to go around you. You're going to have to hold me down. I'm not going to take a cautious step. I'm going to be on my toes every single minute and you have to make sure that that guy knows he's not winning the battle against me. And if all three guys on your line, all two defensemen in that matchup are doing that on a consistent basis, that's how you wear somebody down. That's how you wear a team. You take away their will to win or their belief that they can stay in this game.

And because of a lot of what you guys were saying, the way that the Leafs have played, quite frankly, they played all season. There hasn't been that push. There hasn't been that attack. It's been a more conscious and defensive minded. They haven't had that attack mode. And I think it's allowed Ottawa to feel comfortable that they can handle it. They can handle the Leafs best at times.

And that's what gets dangerous as you get to game five, six and seven. Look at the historical numbers of that core group for the Leafs. Games one through four, pretty solid numbers. Games five through seven, when it gets tough, when the finish line is there and you're saying, yeah, we can get through this first round, that's when you have to dig in. How hard or how much are you willing to sacrifice to get the result? It's not about wanting the result,

it's knowing I'll do anything to get through this shift. And there are some amazing, I'm sure Nick, you've had it in playoffs where it is kind of a cathartic moment when you're in a battle and you've been on the ice for 45, 50 seconds and then you just know you have to break through that proverbial wall and do something and you have to push through it and When everybody on the line has that same feel and that same commitment it's the most powerful thing in hockey and we see it every single year in the playoffs with teams and Let's face it guys there There was none of that last night from the Maples and there were some shifts to hold on in the defensive zone

for Ottawa. I mean, they were scrambling, they had good sticks, they had battles in the corners, and I think that's where, you know, you missed an opportunity to not give a young team the confidence that, hey, you know what, maybe we can belong in this series. And that to me was what really stood out that it was a missed opportunity and unfortunately as you guys were talking about that that's been more commonplace than not. You're listening to Craig Simpson former NHL or two-time Stanley Cup champion hockey night in Canada analyst covering Toronto Maple Leaf the Ottawa Senators in round one here. So, Samir, we have yet to see a Stanley Cup champion without leaders stepping up here and you know you speak about those elimination games in the 1-13 where things tighten up on the Leaf

leaders here. Can you imagine your cups you you know, over the years without leaning on key guys in Edmonton and Pittsburgh? For me, I don't even know what would have happened to our 94 team if we didn't have a Kevin Lowe or a Marc Messier to calm us down now. What is keeping these leaders from having that same effect on their hockey club when it comes down to these tighter games between four and seven? Well, part of it is the experience

of having the confidence to know what that does actually take. You know, when you haven't been able to reach that summit, when you haven't been able to push your team or even yourself in those critical moments to that next level of play it's hard to be the leader because Everybody's looking you going that whole groups in the same boat. They've all had the disappointment So, you know it has to start somewhere and I don't know if you've listened the the very first shift

Austin was on last night There was an icing we came back and I just started talking to that. I looked at last night for Austin Matthews, that was a defining game moment where you could really change the narrative about what you are. This is an opportunity as a captain, as the best player, as a leader in the group to take this team and bring them into the fight. And I just thought I came into the game going, this is like what an opportunity. It's there. You're up three, three, not sure you lost in overtime, could have won that one too. That was the game.

And that was the moment. And that what was so disappointing was they're, they're just not able to get through. And Nikki said, you know, we both had Captain Mark Mestay. Mark was my center for both Stanley Cups. And I can think, especially through 90, you know, we didn't have grads. So we had a very different looking team. We had some inexperience. We still had a bunch of, you know, four, four cup winning guys in the lineup. But I can remember game five in the Winnipeg series, we're down three to one in the lineup. But I can remember game five in the Winnipeg series, we're down three to one in the series. You just knew it was a different game. And you know, you take the lead of your captain and if we're not playing well enough,

that's what I meant about after the game, the captain goes, you know what? We didn't play well enough, I didn't play well enough, I won't let that happen again. And I wanted to hear some of that last night. You go into Chicago game four in the conference final. We were even up two to one, but Mets just had an aura and an intensity and a feeling like we all knew this was a game we have to win. Like there, and I don't think Toronto went into that game, even though they were up three to one the series going I think Toronto went into that game, even though they were up 3-1 in the series, going understanding and identifying, we have to win this game.

We can't leave anything to chance because Sammy's going to be blowing his mind out, saying, oh no, here we go again. But if you read the tea leaves, you know that in the leaf room too. Like, we cannot allow this to happen again. And I think that's what really was disappointing in that. And Nick, I don't know how, you know, you have to live through it. And at times you think the failures that they have

would give them an opportunity to learn from that. But I thought last night was just, you know, laid out on a silver platter, a great opportunity to change everything that's been talked about this team. And unfortunately, they didn't come through with it. But what disappointed me was not one guy, not one guy, even the coach after the game said we didn't execute well enough. And I wasn't good enough, but I won't let that happen again Well to use a golf turn they get them. They got a mulligan All right, 24 hours a little over 24 hours from now. We'll see what happens in game six. Have a great call my friend All right guys take hang in there. Thanks

All right, keep breathing man. Hey simmer keep up the great work craig simpson. Hey He nailed it. He nailed it, right? He's so right. I need to be better. But not even that part of it that he nailed. The start of his, the last answer he gave you there is how can these guys pull everybody through when they've never been through?

How can you ask someone else to do more when you're not doing, you're not holding up your end of the bargain? This is how you get through guys When you don't have the key to the door? Like when you don't know how to pick a lock This is how you get through this is follow me Yeah, like you need me kids got a shotgun. He blows off the knob of the door It's just that part that first little part it was like a kick in

the you-know-what for me yeah I'm concerned very concerned obviously just video coach there but we were down to one in a series and Ben Smith had just won a Stanley Cup and you know's funny, because at that level, it's not the NHL, but it was cool to see someone who had really been through it, stop the record in the room when everyone's a little too loose or whatever, and be like, hey, actually I realized this is a moment here, you know?

And like, had the cache, he changed things for us. You guys know Mitch Marner and his wife are expecting? I did know that. Okay. Like any day now. Any day now. Oh great. Perfect.

Actually Fred Van Vliet got really hot for the Raptors after he had a kid. But he could miss a game six or game seven. Oh my God. He will be with his wife. Will he not? Aren't they all now? Well, see that's a very think about that for a second The very interesting question because obviously things have changed If it were me Sammy, right, are you okay? I don't

Know like this is telling you anything that's earth-shattering here players Early c-section players today miss playoffs to be Present When their wife has a baby, this is Vince Carter graduation ask there's a lot of games you would miss just be prepared game seven Just be prepared at this point buddy Disaster roof off the building for Lucifer himself Okay, we played the first period and maybe left the second? Or maybe like he'd be like the guys in my beer league team missed the first three shifts

They'd come in like halfway through the first period like sorry boys traffic was bad. Yeah, I don't know I I want to sit here and say that like I I Really believe that they'll pull through but they've just never shown last night was so hard to send through It just was funny is a lot of guys who don't have that natural like huh, you know Whatever are scared of other people thinking they don't and will at least try to fake it You know what I mean? And then but the consideration to put on an act. I'll tell you there's a there's a There's a chance if you're faking it enough you get your stick up high you take a bad penalty, too Yeah, and I think we've seen that a little bit in this series. I think so

I'd rather see you know sometimes maybe maybe the bluff card would work. Just show me how about that penalty like Oh, she's really Greg took is it done a penalty of the year? We're dying usually the gods do make you pay make but yeah But then the hockey gods served one up on a silver platter for a two-on-one shorthand The only team that pays is the Leafs. Yeah, they're the only one that has to For the sacrifice any any concerns on stole ours No, no, well, yeah, I want you go to wall. No, okay. I'm less confident than I was. Okay We got through it. Nobody killed each other.

We're good, right? Yeah, we're good. Our national hour is next on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show.