Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Late-Season Line Experiments

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs' 3-2 overtime win over the Penguins. They discuss the hopeful vibes around the team and city, Brodie looking better, questionable officiating, Matthews' strong play without Marner and whether the Leafs should push for home ice in the playoffs. Then, on the Dubas element of the game. Later, former Leafs GM Gord Stellick (33:13) shares his thoughts on what's still unanswered with 5 games remaining, Matthews' hunt for 70, Keefe's late-season experimentation and if it will lead to any permanent changes in the playoffs. Finally, he looks at and makes predictions for the postseason race in the East.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

it's the real kipper and born show we're kicking it in gear nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee derrick brandeo and jimmy willie james wilson wilson does that not remind you of the volleyball yes it absolutely does if it didn't it would be a very weird way to bring jimmy willie into the show wherever you're watching wherever you're listening we're in sports at 590 sports net 360 sports at plus you can always download us if you don't catch us live in texas at 590 590 and get them in because we're kind of jam-packed again this week. I don't know if we've broken the news to our loyal followers of Real Kipper and Born, but we will be. We just got news.

We just got news. My Wilson, Wilson, Wilson is out the window. Okay, well, you know, I blame our beloved Jen Rolnick for misleading me in an email earlier today because I read it. I got it correct on what she told me. So, okay, what is going on back here? I don't know. I put the jersey.

The Blue Jay guys, we came in off the Blue Jay show. What the hell? I hung up a jersey. I don't want to know what your closet looks like at home now. What are you, like my wife now? I just looked back. I was like, what is this? Okay.

I can't fold. All right? You want me to say it on national television? I can't fold. We'll have to wait for that. I'm not an ambi-turner. Okay, pull the thing down, would you? Yeah, yeah.

Just go, please. Get a Leafs kit up there. There you go. All right. We are off to a rocky start. We got no Wilson and a half-baked jersey up on the wall. Ten days until playoffs start, and we got to iron out the kinks here. This is a – you can't go into playoffs on a whether it's

jimmy willie or david sis boom bah i was breaking the news that we will not be on the air tomorrow due to a afternoon what do we call them getaway game sammy getaway game correct getaway game stealing our so get your texts in 590 590 because we're jam-packing those things in this week. And I would like to say this won't happen during playoffs. We'll be here for you every playoff game. Is that a Mark Messier guarantee? No, I shouldn't say that. I know post-leafs we'll be here.

Oh, yeah. But woke up this morning, boys, in the afterglow of what was a wonderful win for the Toronto Maple Leafs last night. You did like it. 3-2 win in overtime. Toronto Maple Leafs outlasting Kyle Dubas' Pittsburgh Penguins. And I woke up without a voice. I woke up. I couldn't speak.

And I was like. Why? I don't know. You weren't yelling last night at the TV, were you? No. A little bit? Maybe. No, I wasn't.

At all. It's by myself. I'm not going to yell at myself in the living room. I'm not a maniac. But I was petrified that it's almost like a nightmare where, you know, it's like, you know those nightmares where you can't get your skates tied or you can't get to the school on time

or all those different... Can't tee the ball up. Can't tee the ball up. I thought I was about to have one where it was like my favorite game of the year and I can't come in, I can't talk. My life flashed before my eyes. What are you saying to us here? That I can talk and I'm happy. Besides that, about the Leafs,

like you woke up and you're like, wow, we're going to win the Stanley Cup now this year? Is that what you're thinking? No. This could be the year that the Leafs win the Cup? I would never, ever in a million years predict the Leafs win the Cup, ever. Okay.

I would never, ever, like million years, predict the Leafs to win the cup. Ever. Okay. I would never, ever like, you know, never say that. But you are no longer predicting them to go out in the first round? I think that they will put up a great fight in the first round and potentially win their first round series. Yes. I am starting to believe that. As late

as a month and a half you thought doom and gloom. They're going to play the Florida Panthers. They're out. There's not a chance that this team's advancing. Six weeks ago, eight weeks ago. I wouldn't even Christmas. No, I don't even think that long.

Can't be like start of March. Two weeks. Maybe start of March. So two weeks. No, that's longer than two weeks ago now, but that's like a month ago. But was it before or after Saturday night against the Oilers when they round there? Trade deadline was

exactly a month ago. Really? A month and a few days. I just, I think this is where a lot of Leaf fans are, which is, you know, they got them right. They got us right where they want us. Where it's just, there has been a new hope instilled with a different looking team with different guys with all three of their superstars and

different lines a different looking decor a hot goalie where now the worst possible thing has happened where we've all been tricked like idiots again into believing that they can win the first let's not get crazy with we all. Well, no. All we. Listen, I'm not sure how many people are as nuts as you are for the Leafs. So, I mean, I am in so many group chats regarding the Leafs. I talk about the Leafs all day long.

Like, you know, I am on a radio show talking about the Leafs. People come to me to talk about the Leafs. And I wouldn't say it's full hope. Okay. But people like this team, Kipper. I think it's a likable Leafs team, the way that they act. I'm not arguing anything here. I'm just getting the Sammy vibes right now.

That's all I'm doing here. Maybe people could text in and tell me if I'm wrong. But I do feel that there's a bit of hope. The sun is out. It's a beautiful day today in Toronto. I'm feeling like hope is kind of bubbling up with a great win last night. That sent, you know, Doobie packing with his tears in his eyes. Like, feels like there's a good feeling around this team right now.

You can't argue that. No, no. And I would agree that in my talking with Leafs fans, they're in. Like, it'll hurt if they were to get eliminated now. There was a while where it was apathy, disinterest. You can't fool me, you know, fool me once, yada, yada, fool me a hundred times. Here we go.

People are ready to get hurt again. Hey, pull me back in. And I have to say that a big part of this too for me is the big bad Florida Panthers, who we were all horrified about and how they were potentially the best team in the league forever they just haven't been they have kind of hit the skids here they haven't been nearly as good as they were in the middle of the season they're banged up Ekblad's gonna be out to the start of the playoffs or Haggie's hurt

you know Kachuk missed a game here or there they're not what they were they're still a horrible matchup for the Leafs but they aren't what they were in the middle of the season. This is where, like, I'm with you. They are more playoff likable, right? Because it came to fruition here. The more sandpaper, the Max Domi's of the world, the Ryan Reeves, Joel Edmondson. I know he's out, but when he when he was in gave a look of playoff

hockey so i'm with you uh that they're gonna get run out in the first round but i think outside of that where you just mentioned florida i i think we can go league wide and go, okay, this is at least predictable out of any kind of playoff run. Like we can handicap teams, and we know which ones are the good ones or the deep ones, but there's a sense now, and maybe it's because you're watching every night four teams jump into a last playoff spot. Not necessarily because they've been playing great hockey.

Someone has to get in. But somebody has to get in. Yeah. It's like musical chairs, right? Like, what are you, a professional musical chair? Oh, it's just when the music stops, you look. You got a seat or you don't have a seat. It's that simple.

Yeah. Hey, look, it's a different vibe around this team than it was and you know maybe we can get into a little bit last night you know what you saw that made you feel that way that has you coming in so positive about this what last night gave you that feeling sammy well i guess this is more personal stakes but i just felt like last night i was you know i had the playoff feels in that game where we're getting into that time of the year, and I just felt like that was a big game against a team that has a ton of star power who needed it desperately.

And I thought that Florida came out. Sorry, got Florida on the mind. Pittsburgh came out hot in the first period. Leafs kind of weathered that storm, and I thought they controlled the game for the most part and played really well. And specifically, again, Austin Matthews, to me, playing on that top line with those two guys, controlled the game for the most part and played really well and specifically again austin matthews to me playing on that top line with those two guys is look the best he's ever looked to me like i

just i'm blown away by how much different he's looked over the last little bit so you were feeling like very positive after that first period that they weathered a storm i don't know what they had three shots on goal in the first 17 minutes was that just a weathering the storm or was that just a team that maybe could have found themselves down to nothing or three nothing yeah it certainly could have when you get out played like they did you know i thought pittsburgh was a that was an all-out effort pittsburgh was very good i thought for the first stretch of that game like there's times guys tried to take the puck to the middle you got five penguins diving in the slot to get in the way um you know it felt like desperation push from a team like pittsburgh and so yeah not great you don't want to get out played like they did in the opening part of it but they did slowly pull it together and it felt like it was too much for

pittsburgh to hang in there for the whole way but But yeah, no, to your point, it was a good push from Pittsburgh to start. In about 20 minutes, we're going to welcome in Gord Stelic, Toronto Maple Leaf analyst for Sportsnet 590, the fan, also former general manager of the Leafs. Always great to have him on, so we'll talk plenty around Austin Matthews and the push towards ending the season. And then at the top of the hour steve valiquette analyst for the new york rangers but does an amazing job breaking down and we'll talk

to him about samsonov moving forward another stellar outing talk about weathering the storm sammy uh sammy to sammy yeah sammy to sammy uh it really It really looks like he's shaping up here to pick up where he left off, I guess from beating Tampa Bay in the first round last year. And a lot of great vibes coming out of that series. And unfortunately, the collision in the second round. I can't even remember who hit him. Oh, it's Luke Shen. I don't remember.

I really don't remember it. Is that what happened? You're right. Luke Shen ended up sliding back on a partial breakaway and took him out. Oh, yeah. And he never returned. Never came back.

So hopefully that's behind him. Well, he hasn't left the game weirdly at all this year, so he should be fine. Yeah, well, we'll wait and see how that plays out all right let's go to sheldon keep for our first kippers clipper of uh the overview against sid's pens last night well obviously that the fact we're able to keep it out of our net on the penalty kill was a big factor in the game with how many penalties we took. Other than that, I just thought we played a pretty good game defensively. Didn't give up very much, even in that third period.

I think we gave up very much. Obviously, they get one in behind Sammy there. But I thought we played patient. They didn't get much off the rush. It's a team that does a lot of damage on the rush, and we managed that really well. Guys didn't cheat, didn't get away from that, stayed with it, even though the game was really tight. And, you know, I think we didn't get a ton of offense here tonight ourselves,

but it was one of those games where we just had to stay with it. So because we didn't get enough offense, we don't get the regulation win, but I liked a lot of things about the game and then, you know, the overtime, you know, I thought the guys handled that well too to get the second point. In terms of like really positive developments, I thought last night was the best TJ Brody's played

maybe all year. I can't remember him being involved in the offense so much he had the puck in the ozone he was moving around even in overtime he was you know cycling to the puck with the guys down low i just thought he skated it well moved it quickly made a great pass to nize for his goal that's right too you know like it just feels it felt like okay well if they can get a piece of that you know he may know that he's trying to play his way back into the lineup and yeah and we're going to see where they are in you know 10 days from now but i i mentioned it a week ago that i'm not convinced he could still be in the lineup that he's a lock to be in the lineup in game one right and i'm still not sure and i agree with you he looked better a

terrific uh cross crease pass to nize for that all-important goal and looks like he's starting to come around somewhat but then i'm i'm starting to get into that that question of okay if if brody's in and everybody's healthy who's's out? Yeah. Lilligren. See, that's... I need a right-handed shot to start. What are you thinking? It's just, it's so brutal to be like, no matter what, this guy's in because he's right-handed. I'm not taking Benoit out.

And Lilligren's not coming out because I need him. You don't need him. And I need... No, you do. You do. You're because I need him. You don't need him. No, you do. You do. You're going up against Florida. You need big bodies. And Lilligren's that?

Well, Lilligren can do more, though. Lilligren can give you 20, 21 minutes if he's feeling confident and he keeps his game simple. He can look like a top four defenseman. You know what I mean? Like, I guess you can't make gestures on radio. I'm not so sure. I'm not so sure. Only because when he's come back.

He's got to get two or three games under his belt. When he's come back from injury. I'm not putting him in in game one coming off of this. Yeah. So I'm with you there. He needs to get back in. But he needs to get back in. And right-handed D are at a premium.

We know what it means to the Leafs. You're going to just have... Who are you taking out then? Brody. Brody, what are you getting at? Brody. God, I thought he was their best E last night. Yeah.

Brody, I'd rather play the physical game than I hope Brody can skate one out game. I guess the question is Brody has played yeah i'm with you on benoit i don't even want to like discuss benoit i want him in so for me it's a matter of like figuring out do you want brody who's played the right side most of his career very well who looks good now or lilligren who hasn't played in a month and is hit and miss to begin with i haven't loved Labushkin recently either. I didn't think he was great against Montreal.

The giveaway was bad. I didn't think he was great against Montreal either. I think he's playing too much. Yeah. But I think that's just because he's right-handed and he's big. Keefe seems to like him, but it just seems like he's getting a little bit overexposed a bit. But I don't think he's coming out.

He's right-hand shot, big body. Did he warrant a boarding call there last night? I hate that call.'s coming out. He's right in shot, big body. He wanted a boarding call there last night. I hate that call. I hate it. He's eliminating a guy. It's a hard play on a guy. Again, I always want to emphasize that I don't like dumping on the officials, but last night's game.

Awful. No, it's embarrassing. Whenever Leifu has haul down carlson in the final minutes stuck his stick between his legs call that that's a penalty a thousand out of a thousand games sydney crosby got high stuck 100% that's no pop face what is your blade doing up in his face that's a high stick all day long i don don't think it is. All day long. Did the puck hit his face? The puck hit his face, not his stick. His stick also hit his face.

His stick is up by his neck. The puck protected him from the stick. Stop it. Stop it. They reviewed it. It was the correct call. It was the correct call. Anyways. Sorry. The slash, Raquel's slash on Marner.

Embarrassing call. Embarrassing. I thought the one on Willie, too, when Sid gets underneath him when he's trying to get around him, I was like, ah, I thought that was soft, too. I thought every call was bad. I mean, I don't know what's going on, but we cannot see these in game one. We cannot see these. Oh, we will.

It happens every year. no no i mentioned this last night at least todd kip that it felt like a playoff game because there was five ticky tack calls against the hockey team that's what happened it gave me ptsd to the first round last year and the year before where they call six a game for nothing and they like we gotta set the tone can you just let them play hockey yeah yeah okay we got our thoughts on tj brody better better way better enough to lock him into game one let's ask uh sheldon uh keith on clip four ben ryan and i were talking on the bench just a few times about how he was probably our most efficient uh pocket mover here today just calm and uh not just on the goal and those situations you mentioned

that he gets assists on, but he just moved the puck with poise and then under pressure, just relaxed and making some plays. Obviously, the first goal we give up in the game, you know, we sort of panic and throw the puck away and it ends up in our net ultimately. And Broads has got some poise with it.

And you need that. You've got to be able to move the puck efficiently out of your end under pressure. If you can't, then it turns into the way that a lot of our first period was at the start before the penalties became a factor. But, you know, Broads helped us make some plays that get us up the ice today for sure. High danger scoring chances when TJ Brody was on the ice last night,

7-0 for the Leafs. Next highest was 4 in terms of high danger chances for the Leafs. So he was good. Nice. He's playing game one. Probably. Oh, definitely. Are you kidding me?

You know who's probably not? Benoit. Yeah. I know we all love him. We all want him in. It's probably Benoit. Yeah. Well, I think Lilligren still is a candidate to not play.

We'll see where he's at. For sure. In terms of other things last night, looking around the hockey team, you mentioned Austin Matthews. He was spectacular. Kipper, I got something that I'm afraid to say to you, but I've been thinking about it a lot,

and I have to be honest with you. No, the Marner stuff. I think the 12 games No, the Marner stuff. I think the 12 games away from Mitch Marner was the best thing that's ever happened to Austin Matthews. I think he has improved and looks better right now than I ever remember him looking. I think there was a switch, too, and it was before Marner. It was facilitator.

I'm telling you right now he is looking for plays he's not forcing and the goals are coming like he's in that listen even the last two off a face off they're kind of going in I don't really anticipate they're going

in on goalies that should stop them and in the playoffs it's more likely they will stop them. But the rest of his game, I've loved more than anything I've seen out of him in seven years. And it's because he's starting to understand at his position that he's moving the puck. It's not sitting on him long.

He just looks like it's more inclusive even though the goals are still coming. I don't disagree with you that there is a sense that, you know, Mitch isn't there feeding me all the time. Well, he wouldn't. But he is understanding now at the pivot position how important a complete look is for him. i i just i don't think he would have 65 goals if he wasn't playing with mitch for a lot of the year and i i don't think it really

matters i think if he looks like he looks right now like we're talking about him as the best score in the game clearly it's like everyone's always like the best score but the way he's played it's like you can talk about him as the best player kind of thing like he is up there when he's looking like this he's looking like the true center i love him on that line and i know we talked about it yesterday with marner or whatever but i i think he's outscored the 16-6 at five on five with him in the last 10 games 18 points i don't know his five on fives off the charts i don't know how the numbers are off the charts how how you split it up, Gibby. How do you split it up? It's the best he's ever looked. You know what I think gives... Yeah, no, I totally agree.

It's going to be interesting. Kelly Yarncroft coming back is going to change some things, right? Because everyone likes Yarncroft, like in terms of playing with him a little bit. Yeah. And I am curious. I got the sense from you the other day that you don't love the line that Marner's on for him.

And I wonder if Yarncrock becomes an option in some way i i really believe when yarn crock comes back you're you're gonna you're gonna see willie go back with tavaris and you're gonna see mitch with austin and max yeah they've just been trying to do this three lines and then you just then you figure out your third line but i don't think even last night we're seeing a ton of chemistry there's guys playing well within the team concept but are you seeing like outside of max and and uh austin is there anyone else you can say great chemistry? I think Bertuzzi complements that line really well. Like he's winning battles. He's digging pucks out.

He's poking them around. He's going to the front of the net. Like that mix to me is a great mix. But you're right though. I don't think there's a ton of chemistry with Marner and Tavares and McMahon at all. I think if you have a guy that you always call the engine, you know, like he can drive a line.

He's also two games off of a high ankle sprain, right? Where he's still got to get his full game back. And, you know, they connected with McMahon on a nice one. He actually made a great pass to Tavares going to the net. JT couldn't put away last night. But, yeah, I am curious to see how much they're sold. Like this version of Matthews, can he drag a line to success? Imagine Marner or Nylander not having to play top opponents in a round.

I mean, what a breath of fresh air that would be. Wouldn't Nylander play 17 minutes? He's pulled everybody back, which is great. Nylander was 16-30 last night. And we may get to the point now where we're going to see some healthy scratches. Probably tonight, wouldn't you think? Well, listen, when you start hearing that Edmonton's starting to save Connor McDavid and then how do teams like Toronto not look at their stars and go,

okay, which one do I want to say that he's going to take a night off on? Panthers are sitting Ekman Larson tonight. They're arresting him. Like, it's starting to kind of happen around the league. Yeah, it's happening now. Yeah. gonna take a night off on panthers are sitting ekman larson tonight they're resting him like it's starting to kind of happen around the league it's happening now yeah so the leafs have two back-to-back devil's games now i know and so we've had the debate about will matthews rest because of this 70 goals thing and all of us feel the same i think maybe sam you feel like it's worth the push for 70 i don't know but i think kip and i feel the same i think maybe sam you feel like it's worth the push for 70 i don't know but i think kip and i feel the same that it should i'm totally on matter the way he looks right now

i would like to preserve that until game one put it in a glass case yeah um the other thing is where do you sit now on home ice advantage and if it's there do you let it go do you force it do you want it so i think i know your answer there are three points behind the florida panthers with a game in hand 99 102 if they were to win their game that game in hand they'd be one point back and they play florida the final weekend of the year it is a very real conversation second in the atlantic a tie also gives it to Florida, correct? Yeah, I'm sure it does. Toronto's regulation wins.

Yeah, they have seven less regulation. Yeah. Let's start in sunrise, baby. Yeah, you just feel like take the pressure off. I hate this conversation because... Sorry, buddy. No, it's fine. I just, I hate the conversation of,

I'd rather suck and be on the road first. It just really bothers me just from a perspective of you need to be beyond that. Yes. You need to be, I'm good no matter. I don't care. I don't care. You know what this is? And I'm not guessing whether or not if we suck, it's better for us. I just want to go out on the road, at home. I don't care. You know what this is? And I'm not guessing whether or not if we suck, it's better for us.

I just want to go out on the road, at home. I don't care. We're going to beat you either which way. To me, it reminds me of, and I know there's some narrative about, of not playing Sidney Crosby or Malkin to start OT last night for Pittsburgh, where you're like, well, we're 3-8 with Crosby. Well, you guys dumped on him, eh? Everybody dumped on Mike Sullivan last night for Crosby.

Yeah, because it was dumb as hell, but then we found there was a skate issue. I mean, did Evgeny Malkin have a skate issue too? Yeah. Did he not have any timeouts? He's the only one that doesn't have the switch-it blades or whatever you call those things. Is that true? He doesn't have the little clip-it blades? No, no.

He doesn't have the click. They brought him a whole second. When he got hurt when he went in with McCabe, they brought him a whole new set of skates. You could see it on the telecast last night. Call timeout and let him get his skates on. You danced with the one who brung you. This is Sidney Crosby single-handedly.

What do you know? You single-handedly drag your team back into the playoff race. You don't go, okay, Drew O'Connor's going to get it done. I think I'm not even sure, but I don't even think you can call a timeout before like it'd be like calling a timeout the bench on the ice no no no no do the jason kids spill the pop i don't think you get to call a timeout uh in between periods or just let their puck drop get possession shoot one in the boards i don't know get him on the ice it to me yeah anyway

it's the same thing where it's like you're overthinking this cutesy thing where it's like maybe if we start on the road the vibes will be better it's like do the thing that helps they have the most and they have the most road wins in the nhl this is really superstitious too great team who's that sid he won't He won't go to those blades. He's got to change his skates. He's got to take the trainer. Well, that's his punishment. I respect that.

He may misplay us by one point again. And he missed the eclipse because he was snoozing yesterday. They asked him if he was going to play. He's like, no, I'm snoozing. Well, that's important. I thought it was a vintage Sid night last night. Yeah. Like in the fact that he wants it so bad.

He's all over the refs. He's whining. He's slashing everybody. He's got the puck on his stick the whole game. I thought he was unbelievable. He tried everything to drag them into a regulation win. Everything except the blades. Except the blades.

I'll do anything for hockey love, but I won't do that. I like Bunting's game, too. He was great. He was great. Yep, flopping around in the first shift. Was he flopping? Oh, my God. The penalty during the start of the game was so Bunting.

Skates pointed up at the rafters on the way down. Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, this is part of his game. It works. It's great. It works.

He does draw a lot of penalties. Some of the most in the league over the past couple years. It certainly does work. And you like the shot of Kyle Dubas and Jason Spezza at the end of the game? I've never seen someone so clearly recognize they're on camera because he's all uptight before it happens and he goes in. He's like, I can't make a scene. I need to exit. I need to exit now you do exit he

knows where to find the exits pretty quickly from heartbreak in that building so hey he knows how to get out of there but it is pretty unbelievable that the guy who scores the goal is one of the best trades he's ever made getting jake mccabe at 50 value to puts his team away he must have been watching that being like oh nice to see that come through and you know that carlson trade like he is good offensively clearly yeah he's a disaster in his own zone yeah he's quieter he's quieter uh the last two weeks for pittsburgh just watch him last night brutal trip he was when they were out of it a month ago he was at his all-time worse yeah i know you mean but now he's But now they've calmed him down. It's limited.

Do you want to listen to Keith on McCabe getting the winner? I do. Sure. Let's do a clip two. Yeah, it's big. It's good. It's a cool moment, like you said, for a guy that does a lot of the grunt work for us.

You know, he's a competitor and does whatever the game calls for so for him to get that opportunity and make good on it, it's a nice moment for him for sure. And I love the finish. It's actually a tough little finish. To the forehand through the arm. Good on him. Can he do it 5 on 5? A couple times?

McCabe? Yeah. 8 goals is here. Quite a bit. Not bad. I think that's right. I think he's you hope he's gonna set the tone for sure because he is he's that guy i think that needs to really be in the faces of top players i hope he's finding a level of maturity with it where he can play like that without getting caught up in the emotion like last year's playoffs where it felt like when there were big hits and high event physical moments it mentally it kind of took him out of the play a little bit all right we got a few minutes here

uh i want to hear sheldon uh keith on the penalty kill because i didn't like it last night we stayed with it i mean we were in our end way too much tonight i thought um our penalty kill has been going going really well here, and it's been, a lot of it's been on the backs of hard pressure and then clears on loose pucks. We didn't clear the puck enough tonight. So as a result, we were in our end a lot.

And you know, they had a lot of puck time, but I thought we pressed things to the outside and we got things to the interior. They were from distance, and a couple of times, of course, Sammy had to make some good saves for us. But, you know, the guys stayed with it. That's a lot of penalty kill time tonight.

So it's good to find your way through it. That's what you like to see, of course. Yeah, Pitt had grade-A looks on it all night, and Sammy was really good. But I don't know if I'm finding it too aggressive where there's breakdowns, and then the seams are open for these grade A chances, and I just think they just need to tighten it up,

and maybe even less aggressive for me. Yeah. Hey, how about the two-on-one that Dewar and Kampf have, which Nightmare, as you mentioned, Nightmare duo to be on a two-on-one. Dewar is always in the right spot, so the coach plays him all the time. He can't handle a hockey puck. He can't make an offensive play. Like a grenade.

He's beating it to a square at all times. I mean, he's just a non-existent threat on the offensive side. Maybe he'll tip some man. He has 11 goals. I know. I'd like a 30 for 30 on that. How does that happen? It can't be 15 last year.

But specialty teams got to hit it at the right time here. Matthew's a couple goals off of face-offs, but still want to see some snapping around like other teams look against the leafs yeah maybe that's something to get ironed out there's five hockey games left over nine days here borny you wrote an article on march 27th about the penalty kill and how it's you know you're not that worried about it and how it'll figure itself out it's not that big a deal since that date date, I asked Sportsnet Stats where their penalty kill ranks in the league.

It is two. It ranks second with 95.2%. One goal on 21 opportunities. That's great. That's the most shorthanded opportunities in the league amongst that time for those teams. And Carolina is 100% over that time. Oh, my.

13 opportunities. I agree with Kip. Last night was not pretty. They were scrambled eggs. For sure. And their goalie bailed them out. But by. Oh, my. 13 opportunities. Last night, I agree with Kip. Last night was not pretty. They were scrambled eggs. For sure. And their goalie bailed them out. But by and large, they've looked better. Having Marner back is really going to help.

But, yeah. One thing that does scare me is they just, not scare me, they don't have the offensive threat that they used to in the PK when it was Mikheyev and Engvall and guys that would go, which I don't know Engvall. I know how we feel about him. Mikheyev and Engvall and guys that would go, which I don't know Engvall. I know how we feel about him. Mikheyev and Engvall is offensive threats, boy. Your check is in the agent.

They had guys who would skate it. Right now, it's like if they don't get clears, they're cooked. No one skates it out. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. When we return, Gord Stelic. We'll get into more on the Pittsburgh Penguins, Toronto Maple Leafs, 3-2 win for the leafs in overtime after these words breaking down the top stories in the nhl every day the jeff merrick show

subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts right back at you real kipper and born all right let's welcome him in it's electricity gordon stelic where you been pal we've missed you well been, been here, there, everywhere, and, you know, experienced the eclipse, did my taxes, following hockey, you know, all that kind of stuff, Kipper. Eclipse and taxes. Yeah. Yes. Somehow they feel related, like end of the world sort of scenarios in both cases. They're both very dark.

There it is. That's what we're looking for. Gord, five games to go for the Toronto Maple Leafs, including last night. Now, the game meant a lot more to Pittsburgh than it did Toronto, but yet Toronto found a way to win a close game. So maybe that's a good sign

that they're locking it down for a playoff start. That's coming right around the corner here. What's left right now for you in these last five games starting tonight against New Jersey? So, you know, first, Kippy and Justin, you know, this is the eighth consecutive year they made the playoffs.

And of all 16 teams that will ever get in the playoffs, I don't know if going in hot or going in cold makes a difference. I don't know if starting at home or on the road how much a difference it was making. For Toronto Maple Leafs team more so than anyone else. I mean, they had that year that was done against the Montreal Canadiens and it didn't happen and on and on and on. So there's just been a lack of predictability, whatever the end of the regular season means for the playoffs. But saying that, you want to see the kind of efforts they had

in Montreal, they had against Pittsburgh. Great to get Mitch Marner back because you want to see the kind of efforts they had in Montreal. They had against Pittsburgh. Great to get Mitch Marner back because you want to be healthy. So I like the fact that they find a way to win a game. This one had a little bite last night. Pittsburgh is playing playoff hockey right now, a little bit of desperate hockey, and you found a way to do it. And again, your depth is starting to come through. Your goaltending has been strong.

So these are all encouraging signs. Do they all end game number 83 like they have in the past in some cases? Well, we'll find out. Hopefully it doesn't. All you can do is go out, in my mind, give those kind of efforts. I don't think we mentioned this in the first half hour of the program, but Austin Matthews has five goals from 70 with five games left. Does he get it? Well, I don't care one way or another, you know, because I think he'd rather win the cons might throw Viez with Marta or anyone else.

But saying that, Justin, I'm not going to rain on the parade. It's a hell of an accomplishment. 50, 55, 60, 65. He's on a tear of late. It's an incredible number. I mean, I hope he does. That would be great if he does. I also, when you talk about, you know, resting him,

that's why I can see him playing all the games. If he were to get to 70, maybe they'd take game 82 off. But, you know, you just are managing ice time a little bit more. You see that rolling three and four lines a lot more. But, boy, oh, boy, I kind of had put that in the back burner like I had the Pittsburgh Penguins making the playoffs a couple weeks ago. So good on Austin Matthews. It's a possibility. I hope he does.

We're talking to Gord Stelic, Toronto Maple Leaf analyst for Sportsnet, former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It seems like eons ago that we were talking at training camp about Willie Nylander playing playing center i think yes never really came to fruition but here we are 77 games in and now we're starting to see major changes to to lines gourd where we've got you know three superstars on three separate lines. Where is this playing out for you? Do you see old reliable come back in game one, or is there a real chance that Nylander, Matthews,

and Marner are separated to start the Stanley Cup playoffs? I don't know about start, but there is a chance. And you know what, Kippy, every single playoff has been, the depth on the other team has been an asset against the Leafs who had to rely on basically two lines. And so here you've got a whack of different options coming together. You got do you want to go the strength down the middle and do it that way? Because, as you mentioned, they made a lot about Nylander. They had Domi playing center later on. If, you know, Ryan O'Reilly, when he was there, you kind of wondered where they're going to have Matthews, O'Reilly and Tavares last year.

Because, man, if you can throw those three kind of lines out in the playoffs, I mean, that just really adds to your depth. But now, you know, Bertuzzi looks like obviously a real deal. Matthew Nyes looks like he can play on the top two lines. Bobby McMahon can play on the top three lines. So I think, Kippy, there's a lot of different options, a little a little more options it seems for Sheldon Keefe and this is where the bench coaching and the field is going to have to come in more because hey we're not after anyone's job at all but you see what's happened to coaches this year in the NHL and I think you know like like his legacy is going to be a lot of way decided about this you know a great going deep in the playoffs he could have a run like Pat Quinn and Pat Burns. One and out, don't know.

So I think he sees now more options that he's got, and how is he going to deploy them? So I'm interested in that. So I could very well see them go three type of centers like that, or the easy way is to have your top two lines with two strong players each. But they've got to figure out something different to make a difference against Tampa Bay, Florida, Boston, who when they beat the Leafs, depth was always something in their favor.

You know, I think we can finally sort of say that it is going to be Florida. They're not getting caught behind it by Tampa. It just is what it is now that it's going to be Florida. Do you care about the quest for home ice? It is within their grasp here. If they play well down the stretch is it important that they make that a priority no no no I think it's important to play well down the stretch I you know I kidded people in Winnipeg because I love the fans of

Winnipeg I got some great friends there I think they're 0 and 36 in the whiteout and they're going to do a whiteout again I whatever you know i don't know why and in toronto they played their best hockey on the road for whatever reason this team has i'm not saying you want to have uh not have home ice and anise you can get it that's great but it hasn't the beat been the bo and end all for them so no i'm not worried i'm not concerned about that gordon the the sense is that they should be healthy on the blue line. There's talk about Edmondson coming back as quickly as Thursday, maybe, or the weekend.

There's talk about Lilligren getting a game in or two before the season's over. So all things being healthy here, who's in, who's out, where is Brody for you? Well, it isn't funny that Brody started to play better, but he's the guy that has had, just had that off season this year that you, you'd be hard pressed to believe you would consider him being a healthy

scratch, but at some point you would have had to, I think he likely will go with him as part of it again, just much Kippy and justin like you're talking about identifying the forwards that are going it's another one about just what defensemen work you know how is it like last year you can't have another justin hall performance who was like on for nine tenths of the goals in the playoffs you know and that again whereas a luke shen who was who was slotted a third pair, ended up being a core four guy.

So I'm still like I did a column about Timothy Lilligrand kind of comparing him to Rasmus Sandin in. You want to find a way to have your young defenseman develop here and not somewhere else. And so I'm keen about him. Obviously, your big guys are like Morgan Raleigh and McCabe and others about how they come through. I like Edmondson in particular and Labushton.

Adding that, Edmondson's won a Stanley Cup and gone to the final. So again, these are going to be questions for Sheldon Keefe. And obviously, you're dressed six, but your core four are the ones that are going to really matter. You know, it's funny how the roller coaster of a season changes, the narrative changes, but Sheldon Keefe, you know,

at times people had him on the hot seat. People, you know, love how he coaches, but his record with this Toronto Maple Leafs team has been very good. And we saw an article recently, Jonah Siegel on Sheldon Keefe. This is his best coaching job with the Leafs,

given some injuries to some key people and just their challenges throughout the year, no goaltending at times. What are your thoughts on the performance that the Leafs coached this season? You know, an underrated coach, you know, but you, again, you don't have that playoff success, so that's kind of the dagger there. And I really thought when he took the team over from Mike Babcock, they were in a deep hole. And maybe it was their loathing and enemas towards Babcock that the Wicked Witch was gone and they played so well and got back in it.

But I thought he did a solid coaching job there. I've liked him as a coach. He wasn't the big name like Babcock and all those. And too often we get wowed by the big name. But I think everybody has to wear about what happened in the playoffs, you know, including Kyle Dubas' record, whatever it may be. As a general manager, you've got to wear just one playoff round victory. And so that's going to be the ultimate litmus test.

But I know when you're around for a long enough time, you start to develop your detractors, whatever it may be. But he's got to have a pretty good record among all-time Leaf coaches, whether it ends this year or another year or two three down the road so i i thought he's done a solid job i like that he has not had to this has been the year that coaches do not walk back criticism it's you know rick bonet rick bonus rick talkett john tortorella kind of done and it just seems to be more open season they're saying look we're getting fired left right and center so i'm going to go down doing it my way and i see more of that with

shelvin keith this year any concerns at all i know that the the penalty kill has been on a good run lately here but uh we were just talking earlier in the show that uh seemed like pitt certainly had some good looks here but in the last handful of games here, is it important that the power play starts looking like a real power play instead of maybe a set play off a face-off more? You want to see more out of it? So my big concern is I don't want, because the first year when they lost to Washington, they got a standing ovation. I don't want to be with you guys the seventh consecutive year

after the elimination game and talking about the same old stuff, how it happened. That's my biggest concern. Got to get the power play going. Like in the playoffs, special teams, goaltending, even more important. So you've got to seize those opportunities. So I'll view it as a concern, Kippy. You know, but they also show when they got all cylinders flying, they're among the elite teams. Now there's seven or eight other teams that are like that.

So you've got to differentiate yourself from that group with more consistency, which includes the power play. So with the playoff race in the East kind of heating up here, you've got five teams kind of on the cusp. You know, just get your thoughts on that portion of the NHL here. It's going to be interesting to see if any of those teams can come in, get hot and do damage, you know just get your thoughts on on that portion of the nhl here it's going to be interesting to see if any of those teams can come in get hot and do damage you know between the islanders pittsburgh detroit capitals flyers who you like gordon so first you know justin i like

this race okay it's gonna be a photo finish race a horse race a photo finish they're they're racing hard to the wire these guys have just seen the barn and the home stretch and just gone off to the barn. I can't, you know, I mean, it's the weirdest race going. It's like the old walking race where, you know, if you misstep, you're out of it. The most boring thing to walk when they, so I really can't believe the lack of

teams that have been seizing it. I know people want to see Patrick Kane and want to see Sidney Crosby in the playoffs. I think that, I think it'll be Detroit, Washington, and Islanders at the end of it, and Philadelphia and Pittsburgh will be the teams that are out. Pittsburgh makes it. I give them full marks. They were dead, dead, dead, but they went on a National Predators-type tear,

and they got a break that everybody else said, whoa, Nelly, and stopped the race for a while, and they would have taken advantage of it. What did you make of the attention off of Sid Crosby from the officials last night? So, you know, Craig Simpson made reference to it, but, you know, when you analyze it, at first they made the right call on Bobby McMahon

that would that be partly a reputation call if there wasn't video review you know so a double minor which could have been a different you know on Sid changed and I know the other part the Leafs had the puck going the other way when Matthews and Sidney you know collided but for a second it did look like a significant collision so I mean I are you know is he getting extra respect because he's like i've never quite heard of like the old book jordan's rules in basketball for crosby's rules in hockey but uh i it was kind of funny i i thought it the thing went okay as far as it went as far as the calls went and then i mean the skate thing i mean uh our friend john chan and said that just only sydney

crosby and connor mcdavid are the only two that have the old fashioned boot. It's like a lot more players should get that if they're the only two. They've done OK with them. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like, you know, when we're playing House League and all of a sudden you got to yell at someone's parent to take the hand of the skate and they go get people. Frank Mahalich's dad at Leaside Arena to sharpen it. And the poor kids missed two shifts miss two shifts of house league play. I mean, that's what it was like last night with Sidney Crosby's skate experience.

You still have the tubes, right? Was that pre-microns or were those microns? I got the tackle berries. Remember tax? Tax that I put my number on the skate. I got, yeah, I got it. Super tax, Gord. Super tax. Well, Ernie couldn't afford super tax, yeah, I got it. Super tax, Gord. Super tax.

Well, Ernie couldn't afford super tax. No, neither could George. Well, you got him paid for eventually anyway, Kippy. Someone did. We did. All right, buddy. Listen, great stuff as always. Thanks for doing this, Gordo.

Okay, guys. Take care. Thanks, Gord. Appreciate it. That is Gord Stelic. Stelicricity. Simmer had an all-time line last night. Crosby gets hit.

Him and Matthews collide. And it was after the high stick where they blew plays dead twice where there was really no reason to blow the play dead. And he was like, are they going to blow the whistle every time Sid gets hit? And it was like great call. Simmer's in playoff form last night. He was, yeah. We're getting into the season. We're getting into the season.

We're getting into the season. What kind of skills do you need? I'm not getting treated the same way as Sid. 800 players aren't getting this. Right. But you still gotta play the game.

Yeah. There has to be something between what we saw last night and respect for Sid. still got to play the game, right? Yes. There has to be something between what we saw last night and respect for Sid. For sure. Too quick on the whistles. I saw a little clip floating around the internet of super duper slow-mo that Matthews had a pretty hard long look at Sid

before he hammered him. Oh, there's a lot of people that said that Austin had a very good look. Yeah, I'll show you the video in the break, but maybe a little bit of a... Let it be true. Please, God. You think he'll

slash somebody soon? Oh, my God. It could be. Hey, he gave Darlene once. Maybe it'll get weird. He's playing with Domi and Max, man. Domi and Bertuzzi. It's the best thing for him. That's actually the most protection he's ever had if he wants to get aggressive. What kind of skates do you guys wear? I've got like whatever the most Bauer, whatever there is.

What are your favorites, Kev? You know? I was a Bauer guy too. Yeah. When I was the Marley's video coach, because they're the Maple Leafs, I had skates at their three different locations just in case they needed to hold an iPad. So I got like i had skates they like if they're three different locations just in case they needed to hold an ipad so i got like oh my god incredible i still remember the

moment i went to my first junior a camp at kitchener and i was the last cut by the way oof but they still bought me new skates what a feeling my feeling was, even if I went home, I'm going home with new skates. Yeah, you got something out of the deal. What a great feeling. Love that. Love that. Yeah. All right.

On that note, just getting started. Getting warmed up here. We go national next. We got Valley. Dee Valliquette will join us. We'll break down all the goaltenders as we get ever so closer to the Stanley Cup playoffs when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne.

Don't go away. We'll be right back.