Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Laughton In, Cowan Out vs. Mammoth

Episode Date: November 5, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Toronto Maple Leafs' Wednesday-night matchup against the Utah Mammoth. They discuss whether the Leafs can build off a big third period against the Penguins, Scott Laughton making his season debut, Easton Cowan getting the game off, and Nick Robertson's rising stock. Later, KSL Sports insider Cole Bagley (32:23) shares the state of the Mammoth ahead of their head-to-head against the Leafs, what's behind their hot start, Nick Schmaltz showing out early in a contract year, the ownership's impact, and how aggressive Bill Armstrong will be in the trade market. Finally, Nick, Justin and Sam react to Cowan being sent down to the AHL.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome to the real Kipper and Bourne show. It's the Leaf Hour edition, as we are 4 to 6 p.m. now. That's good. Starting with the Leafs and then going into our national hour. We are live on Sportsette 360, Sports at 590, the fan in Toronto. and always streaming on SportsNet Plus can also catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube

where I throw an occasional thumbs up there. Hey, Sammy? Love when they do that. Really love it. Love when you do that. Kipper reads all the comments, so you say something nice for Kipper. Toronto Maple Leaves.

It's game day. We are closing in on a game day of our own, Eric Lindross, celebrity Easter Seals. and I did make a plea a little bit earlier this week on getting us out of the basement on our donations and our fans have responded to which we say yeah nice work everyone thank you

we're out of the basement good yeah and I think we're past Eric's team which is Skate 8's how is that possible I just like it's all gravy it's all just raising money for incredible no why are you so competitive He made the NHL because he's competitive, okay?

Let him have it. It's just not about raising money. It's about raising money and winning. Can't wait to play on your line. Hey, you could rather them on our line than play against them. Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. My favorite line, like when you're tired and you're in the dress room,

it's like, okay, boys, we're here. We might as well win. Yeah, we've put on all the stuff. You've got to be on the ice. I might as well try. Someone tweeted me with a good name for our line. two and a half man line I was like that's fantastic

that is really good speaking of which that documentary on Netflix on Charlie Sheen excellent excellent excellent document I fully intend to I highly recommend for those of you watching

you can see where you can donate it's not over yet we still have a day and a half raise money we've almost raised 11 grand that's great

yeah it's fantastic not bad for a week here I know but you know what There's the Steve Dangle guy once upon a time. Once upon a time worked at Sportsnet. That guy's raised $34,000. I know. Steve is awesome.

I think his fans love him more than they love us. Are his listeners richer than ours? Well, not your listeners. My listeners for sure. He's got one friend that has more than Dangles combined and mine. I want to crush him. So listen, if we can just get together a quick, I don't know, 25, 27,000 between now and Friday.

Check the couch cushions for 25 grand. And we can pass, dangle. I'd appreciate that. Because if we don't, I'll only take it out on him on Friday. I don't think, are we playing against him? I don't know. I'll go look for him. I was trying to beat him up once when he was working here.

Yeah, I remember that. That was funny. That was funny. I, uh, yeah. I'm literally happy that I'm getting to skate tomorrow before I go. Oh, yeah. I've been skating in like two weeks. So my gear became available in the shed today.

I'm going to have to pull it out and just see if it's in... The Jays really stood in the way of me bling out with the zigzags for three straight weeks, so it's been a while since I've gotten out. The puck moves faster than your feet. We'll just pass it. Well, palo, it'll be like the old guys that just dish it around. My feet or hands don't move quickly.

So speaking of competitiveness, did we see enough out of the third period out of the Toronto Maple Leafs against Pittsburgh to suggest that whatever they were experiencing in the first two periods, Monday, whether it was just mental, physical, or maybe bad clams the night before, we won't, we won't see that. Well, it's so funny you should say that. How about you play the first clip from the coach today, Derek, clip one, what is expecting tonight?

Probably a lot of what we saw in a third period. That's what we're looking for here right away to start the game. You know, a team played last night. So they're on a back-to-back and, you know, play with pace, energy, get after them. Now, this used to be, used to be the spot where the Leafs would definitely toe-pick and mail in an effort. You know, like the other teams on a back-to-back, you're at home, you're coming off a couple of wins. This is the ultimate toe-pick spot for the Leafs. However, the fact that they got a pretty good smack on the back of the wrist from their coach last game,

implies that they'll be better prepared tonight even if it is a game you think that might be a little softer for them I think I think there's always that window of and Edminton's going through this still maybe they get more leeway because they've only been to two Stanley Cup finals the last two years so maybe it's stretched out for them a little bit longer here but that window for me of just notoriously slow start is gone now for the Leafs. So I'd still be very worried. And you can tell, I think, in Craig Barubi's comments that he's still perplexed and puzzled over those first two periods.

And I think to a lot of us, including me, that the hope was with the changes that they made in the off-season, that they were better built for the playoffs. I'm now in November going, they got to prove that they're better built for the regular season right now for me. Yeah, that's fair, Kip. Now, so I've been putting some thought in on the Leafs. Aren't you guys follow a guy named Steve Peters?

He works at ESPN. He used to be a video coach for the coyotes for 20 years. He did a breakaway or sorry, a breakdown on the Leafs D struggles so far this season today on his Twitter account. Interesting look. And I watched it all and my one thought was and this is not, this never sounds nice,

but like maybe they're not a very smart team. Like maybe their players, you know, like Mitch Marner really smart, right? Like that's maybe his best attribute is a hockey player, really smart. David Camp, really smart player. You know, they've got, they've had smart players and then have prioritized it in the past. Watching all the breakdowns over the course of this year and just going, it's not effort.

It's dumb. You're out of position. You're not F3. You're not recognizing danger. You're, you know, you're diving in on a puck when you should pull back. It's a bunch of, and it's not one guy. And I'm going through the roster and I'm going, yeah, he's not maybe the best yet. Like I worry a little bit about the ability to think it with this.

group right now. But outside of Mitch Marner, like a lot of them made intelligent decisions last season to win the Atlantic. I mean, they are fundamental. How many, they're five guys different, at least. Okay, but

is that enough to make everybody dumb in the room? Not everybody. The most important players are still smart players, but God, a lot of these breakdowns are guys running out of position. And so maybe it's just a lack of buy-in, a lack of trust because often it is oh no one's getting that guy better run out of a position to go get

them instead of just staying in mind in your own business you know i love the expression watch your own bobber as a fisherman just watch your own bobber let someone else deal with their own responsibility i don't know maybe it's just a lack of trust in each other right now and they're not dumb dumb's a mean thing to say but like there's been some dumb hockey this year a lot of big bad mistakes and bad spots yeah boneheaded stuff yeah i don't know Just a theory. Working on theories here. All right.

As far as the lineup's concerned, a couple of changes, including Scott Lotton in. As we often do, we dissect the lineup and the changes here. What's Scott Lotton going to bring for you tonight? Well, you hope that he looks like he did in preseason where he scored a couple of goals. Like if he can be 15 to 20, goal i mean i know we're 10 games deep now so call it 13 to 18 goals scottlotton that would be really

really nice as someone who also can play physical is smart yeah and you know can do some of these better things so that's nice it is go ahead no i just 15 or 20 goals for me he's gonna have to start knocking on the door 14 or 15 minutes and is it neck law that's 14 15 minutes is it scott Lotton, 14, 15, which is just so much of a pie that you can split here. Who's, can he move in ahead of Nick Waugh in the lineup? Well, sure. I mean, he certainly can. It's not like Craig Bruby has shown some.

Like third line, third line centerman. I'm looking at Scott Lawton's time on ice last year in round two of the Stanley Cup playoffs. And he's 14 minutes, 1537, 1411, 14.09. The buildup on Nick Waugh was that, okay, he's just not a throw-in here. I know at the end it looked like a just get, let's get something. But Nick Waugh came in with some, hey, we just didn't get a throwaway that we're going to disregard here. It's like a useful guy, been part of a winning tradition here in Vegas, could have the ability to maybe pot 15, 20 goals in play 15. minutes and fall in really nicely right behind Matthews and Tavares, I guess.

I actually thought maybe he could be a youthful guy that can sometimes step into a top six. I haven't seen it. I've never watched him in Vegas as close as I'm watching now. I'm not sure his skating would ever allow him to be a guy that can be up there in the 15 to 17 minute range. consistently. But right now, I think it's a pickum between Scott Lotton and Nick Waugh now for Third Light Center. It's a great problem to have if you want to call it a problem.

And let's be honest, Scott Lotton's a winger. You know, like ideally, this guy ends up playing the wing. And if you want to do, you know, Scott Lotton alongside Nick Waugh with Dakota Joshua or with Steve Lawrence, you could have a nice big line that has some finish and you can trust so you know by time you get to the deadline you maybe add another center who knows what it looks like but all right let's get craig bruby's thoughts clip four derrick on scottlotton yeah like you know he's going to be energized for sure and want to get out there and do his thing um you know i'll see how the game goes how he's looking if it's a drop off or not you know

because a lot of times you've been out a long time you have practiced but it's not game it's not a game right it's like totally different so see how his energy is and where he's at throughout the game. Yesterday Brubay said that he thought that the room really missed Scott Lotton. He called him a glue

guy multiple times. That was interesting. That's great. You need that. I mean, but that's not a guy that you would necessarily expect in terms of hierarchy on the team for a room. I guess it doesn't matter what your role is on the ice. A room can still miss you if you're a great guy or whatever, but I thought that was interesting.

Yeah, and I think you look at his departure in Philly. I mean, people were coming undone Yeah, his departure, so. Yeah. See, I did hear that, and I think it's great for Scott and just another reason why to feel really good coming back. But is it also a reflection of what he thinks

has been missing in that room, that there's some sort of void or something that Scott brings that he hasn't seen in the first 13 games? Maybe. Like, well, you remember what Reeve said when he signed here? Like me that, that always, that will always stick with me when he's like, yeah, I've heard that it's a quiet room.

They're kind of bringing me in here to make it less quiet, I guess. I just, that's always been something that's been talked about on the outside. We have no idea. I mean, I'm not inside the room, but like, that's always been something that's been talked about here. That was a huge tell. Yeah. And also, you know, I think about, remember the clips of Brad Marchand with Team Canada last year coming in and like, you know, it's like 10 situations and he's just absolutely.

leaning on guys and you know i think dressing rooms there are certain guys who are special at doing that sort of thing and any room is lucky to have them you miss them when they're gone yeah maybe the leaves haven't had that maybe that's something lawton can do too i i do think that one of the big complaints we've had about this team throughout the start of this season is just that it seems like there's a lack of jam lack of energy lack of heart lack of you know like of something in the room that sky can bring tonight but just like on the ice he'll get in somebody's face you know he'll you know he'll go to the net hard he'll he's not like a scrapper by any stretch but he's an aggressive player there's been a lot of lacking they've they've missed that they've missed that so

good to have him back in NHLer so good to have him back in the lineup another game for nick robinson to to grow yeah i am curious so not physically no he's done he's a no brainer like that he's in the top six and he's playing with tavars and mcmann i am curious to get your thoughts on what's going to happen having this many forwards like once you're healthy you got to have three guys out tonight Machelli is going back in to play against Utah so Cowan is coming back out and Cowan is you talked about like

lack of consistency for guys it's like didn't play two games first line for three games came out for a game third line came out second line coming out that's strange so Cowan's out blazes out that's no brainer

but Yarn Croc's out and he's been good so you just got a lot of forwards is it better to send Cowan to the American League not yet yeah not yet I think he's playing too well. He is playing Bob.

I said the other day. It looks totally careful. It's an older team. I need some youth. I need some enthusiasm. I need some energy. And even if he's not playing tonight, he can still come to the rink and you can feel it bouncing off of him.

If he gets to the rink at 5 o'clock or 5.30 to work out or get on a bike before putting his suit on to watch the game. I want that around. me. Yeah. And it's still too early. I think it's my, I think my thoughts at least have changed on it.

We're at the start of the year. I was like, oh, if he's just going to be in the press box, just send him down. But I think he's played enough and he's playing enough and he's looked good enough to me that it's like, I'm okay with him missing a game or two here and just kind of doing like this.

He'd be like, yeah, take me out every fourth game. I don't care. Let's go. I do know that they're not happy with just as is. It is because there's nothing out there. but if they can move a couple of contracts, they want to. And I don't know where Nick still is with Craig Bureubi. Ultimately.

Nick Roberts, it is? Yeah. I'm not sure he's 100% all in. I love this guy. I want to go into the playoffs with this guy. I'm not sold on that. Sure. So you're on the sell high train here.

I think if his stock continues to go up, it's a great thing for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Ultimately, if your head coach goes, he's just not my type of guy in the playoffs. I'm sorry? Yeah. He's just not my guy. Yep.

Can he help us get there? Yeah. Am I okay with playing him right now? Am I happy he's contributing? Yeah. But if there's another team out there going, if you don't believe in him, like we now believe in him because we've watched him for three weeks,

then we'll take them. We'll take them off your hands. And we're willing to pay a higher price today than we did a month ago. Yeah. I mean, makes perfect sense. He's just turned 24 a month ago or so.

What's he making? 1-8? 1-8. Okay. Manageable. It's so funny that they're like, this guy's going to burn us. If we trade them,

it's going to burn us. It's like, well, now they're giving them the chance to find out, I guess. But, yeah, Kip, I see your point that it's like, if the coach won't use it. It's a chicken and the egg thing, though. Like, you know, it's like, oh, you're finally giving them the,

opportunity that you were afraid that he might get somewhere else and he's producing so now it's time to trade him it's so but you it doesn't make any sense but we are in game 13 for or game 14 tonight for the Leafs so there's a lot of there's a lot of play here right oh yeah it's so early still so early you know what's talking about trading them now could be Christmas it could be February could be at the trade deadline I don't know but the best news for the Leafs is his stock is trending upwards. Let's listen to the coach on clip six on what's led to Robertson's production. I think, you know, I've given him more opportunity, but he's deserved it.

And I think that's part of it and that's confidence, right? He feels good about his game. He feels getting a lot of good puck touches, you know, getting shots, scoring. He's confident. That's a big part of the game. He had good puck touches. What were you looking at it? Are you okay? I can't see with the glare which blue jay that is.

Oh, wow. I think that's the shaker. Who's that? The shaker. Who'd that be? Oh, my God, you guys are so young. Lloyd Mosby. That is.

It looks like a glare to me. Yeah, I couldn't quite make out the... Anyways, I thought there was like a big burning up there. Squirrel. Squirrel. Hey, that's... You guys tell me that. That's not me.

You guys are late. We've talked to Nick Robertson for four straight years, for God's sake. Let's move on. Any updates on Joseph Wall? He was asked, at least. Our boy, Luke, asked him. Of course. We got a Joseph Wall?

We do have a Joseph Wall. Clips 7. Yeah, it's getting close. Yeah. I mean, I can't. I don't want to give you a timeline and then it's changed. But I can just say this. He's in a real good spot.

It's great to have them. with us in practice and stuff and he's in a good spot and he's doing well so it's close it's close day to day is he been on the ice with the rest of the team yeah I think so I don't know

plead the fifth I think so when Alter sends out his tweets about like all the lines and stuff is there any chance he goes in place for the Marley's yeah he's there he's only nice with the Marley's no with the Leafs okay all right is there any chance that he needs a few games with the Marley's

Are they going to skip all that? No, they shouldn't skip all that. Was he asked about one of the parties? No follow up. Just that. Can we write questions down and then like, do you want to start going? I'll go.

Get a pigeon to deliver them and then ask the questions for us. My only thing with the whole wall thing is that these things are always best dealt with just up front. You know, like here's what's up, working through it. You know, address it, let them talk. It might be hard, but you have to get through the hard to get to the other side. This, like, postponing the hard part. Just rip the Band-Aid off. Let's talk about it.

It's Wednesday now. The Leafs play a back-to-back this weekend. Any chance he plays Sunday night against Carolina? In the NHL? Yes. No. I would not throw him out. He has to play Marley's games before he plays for the Leaf.

Okay. You wouldn't want to disrupt the flow of Cade's Primo either. Yeah, we need to give a game out of him. I try Hill to be. One of them should go tonight, probably. Solar is okay. Yeah, he's going tonight. All right.

We got a clip on Austin Matthews. We got one on John Tavares. Where do you guys want to go? Well, they're doing the big ceremony tonight for Tavares' 500th goal. Do you care about that? Sure. Yeah, absolutely. It's a big accomplishment.

Let's do a lie detector test and reask if that. Go ahead. We're all excited for it. You know, what a great career he's had and things he's accomplished. is incredible. So we're all pretty jacked up about it. And I'm extremely happy to be part of it. Yeah, it's a big deal.

In the midst of a glowing tribute to DeVars is from Lance Hornsby. Lotton surprised this ground by saying straight shooting JT is one of the funniest guys I've ever met. Pressed about the revelation. Lotton had it. I don't know how to describe it. It's a bit dry, but he makes me laugh a little. You sure about that?

I love it. I love it. I mean, this is going to be the year of Tavares. Obviously, it's... Knock knock. He plays it safe. Why did the chicken cross? Obviously, the chicken cross.

It's a tremendous honor. All right, all right. So, I think it's perfect... And you sent the tweet about this, about how... I forget what you alluded to something about just the difference in perception. Yeah. I have found it incredibly refreshing as a fan, who's always defended J.T. To some people, maybe even in this room, potentially.

that this year I don't really have to defend it because he's making way below what he's supposed to make now you know he's not the captain anymore you can just kind of love him for who he is and he's just he's still producing at a certain level what it's November yes November you want to go into the stretch drive yes right you want to go on the stretch drive

either they're in the playoffs or they're going to make the playoffs or they're in the first round and it's matthews and tavaris and they both of those guys kind of get shut down, you're going to come on our show and you're going to say, you know what, it's fine because John was only making $4 million. Yeah, and I think he's 35 years old and it's less than it should be as expected of him. Yeah, so he can't win a playoff round this weekend.

I don't think, I don't think, I don't think that's going to be the tone or the narrative. And it's fine now. But my, my, my, he's just John Tavares again. I know. He's just like just about above a point of game. It's just he looks exactly the same as he's always looked. And it's the exact same thing as either you get knocked out in the first or second round. So I don't know where this is going for John.

I don't. Whenever we have a conversation about anything, the Trump card is, well, yeah, I mean, the playoffs. Like, yeah, they've stunk in the playoffs, but they've got to get there. And this guy's making under $5 million and he's over a point of game again. And it's just nice to appreciate it. And I'll have to be like, well, he makes 11.5 million. The ultimate question for me is is it Matthews and Tavares once again

one, two, to lead this team and then go try to win the Stanley Cup? So are you asking me if I think they're going to add a center that's better than John Tavares? No. My question is, do you think that they can be successful with John as a second line center?

Yeah, I mean, that's a much fundamental bigger question about Brad Tree Living and team building than it is about appreciating and respecting John DeVarra's and his play. Totally two different conversations. Totally two different conversations. Yeah, but that's ultimately where I always end up. Oh, we know.

And it's like, listen. Yeah, but that's no what Sam's saying. Sam's saying John has been awesome this year. It's fun to watch him. It's nice that the heats off him a little bit. He's doing great. He is. Okay, all right.

He's second in the league and even strength points. I know you want him to be Mark Stone. Yeah, you want him to be... But he's not Mark Stone. All right. So I think it's wonderful in November. We can talk about, you know, 500 goals and 1,100 points and all of that. I get all of that.

Yeah. I am realizing how pointless is supposed to bring up. You guys think I hate him, and I don't hate him. You just don't think that I think they've gone to the well so many times with Matthews and Tavares. up the middle, and they've gotten beat by every good team's top two centermen, and they decided to do it again. Not Tampa that one year. And I will not Ottawa last year.

Please. And I will say, last year, my line. Contending team, Sammy. Last year, my line on John Tavares when we were talking about building the cake was, it doesn't matter if the ingredients are cheap, if the ingredients don't make a good cake. To your point, we're not sure that this is a good cake. This cake tastes like crap and has tastes like crap for 10 years.

But it's a cheaper cake. It's like, I still don't like the cake. So I get your point about the way it's built that maybe the gradians aren't right. If I go to and buy a McCain's deep and delicious, it's still good. It's just not La Rocca or whatever. It's still good. I get the idea. But like I do think if you have a great third line center and a great fourth line center

and you get that, I think he can be okay. He just, like, you know, Phil Kessel's a two-time Stanley Cup champion. Do you want him to be the best player in your team? No. But if he's surrounded by great players, he can win Stanley Cups. That's John DeVaris. You're not going to not win because he's on your team. You just have to build around him accordingly.

It's very well said. Build fast. Well, get building. And if you want to build, you don't get to have a hammer. You have no screwdriver. You have no drill. You've got no money. You've got a tape.

Get building with the assets. that you got. All right, building tonight. Austin Matthews, clip. Well, it was just about him penalty killing in what Brubay seen. It's not the most thrilling clip, but it's, you know,

we could, it's a jumping off point to have a quick conversation about him if you want. So play the clip. Well, that effort in that game in the third period by him, you know, that's what he's capable of doing. Penalty kill-wise, like,

you know, he's good in the face-off dot, which is important, obviously, and he's a smart player. I mean, a lot of these offensive guys, you know, they know what power players are trying to do and they got some anticipation to him. And that's important on the penalty kill. But his, you know, overall, Austin, you know, like I said, he touches all the ice for us. Like whether it's going against top lines, penalty killing, you know, going out and winning on faceoffs and, you know, he's a complete player. you catch that beginning? No.

I mean, I did, but not the way you did. I think he said effort. Did you use the word effort? Play the start of the day? Can you play it one more time? That effort in that game in the third period by him? Effort. Stop, stop, stop. Effort in the third period of that game. That's all I needed to hear.

Great shifts. What the message that he has on his captain, effort. Yeah. I told you guys, he's not working hard. In that third period, I saw it. And apparently, Barubi saw it too. He had. He worked.

Can I say that that makes me really happy? That is it's sad that it's sad that it makes me happy that it's an effort thing. But I'm glad it's not like he's flying to Germany because his back doesn't work and his wrist doesn't. Like, I'm happy that it is there. And you've seen it and you hope that as the games get bigger, the effort gets more

and you kind of, you want it there all the time. Don't get me wrong. He's the captain of the Leafs. I get how bad that is. He's smart enough to know that he played his injury card last year. He would never get away with it this year. You don't think? No.

I mean, if you flew to Germany again, I think that's probably would. No. So you're going to be like, no? The fan base would be all over him. Oh, they already are. We know that.

They already are. They already are. You want to add a second trip to Germany on him? He wouldn't last five minutes with it. I'm telling you. He's smart enough to say right from the get-go I'm fine, I feel good

and now it's just about getting his game back on board and he did in the third period that's great. He looked awesome. He's smart. That's great. He looked awesome in the third period. I know we want to move on and talk about the frozen elephants coming up after this. But I did want to ask you guys if you saw the SNL Predators get

No, I didn't. No. Yeah, I saw it. It's pretty good, eh? Valley tweeted at me. Yeah, except you're talking about kids and predators and Yeah. The word predator has taken on a variety of connotations. I know. And it makes, it creeps me out. Yeah, and the CEO of the Preds was like, uh, we're not going to change our name, I don't think. No, but I, now if I think of national predators, I think of Nashville predators and children.

I saw, this is uncomfortable. And it's uncomfortable. I saw Valley tweeted it to me and I thought it was like somehow J's related, so I didn't watch it. Because he was like, Sammy, this will help you with the Jays. He was like the jays. I get a haggle orchid. How do you survive? I get the humor.

I get the humor. But I always had the predator being this vicious animal. And now they made me think of something else. It's very well done. It's going to break. It's going to break and talk to you. Cole Bagley is up next. Talking some mammoth.

All right. More real Kippenborn after these words. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk. hockey PDO cast with Dmitri Filipovich. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiparos, Justin

Moore, and Sammy McKee. I am Ron Brick and. But I'm trying to read your... It's very easy to read. No, it's not. It's right there. Whales vagina. When did I say that? Did I say that?

No, you didn't. You did. One year he did. Early when you were swearing. In my ear, I get, yes, he did. When you were swearing a bunch back, when you were going blue back in the early. Season one, apparently. We are waiting on Cole Bagley, who does a tremendous job covering. the Utah Mammoth Insider

for KSL Sports and co. Host. But you... No, co-host. I know, but you don't have co-and-host in the right way. I'll give KIP credit. That's not a functional way to write co-host. Yeah, you wrote like KSL Sports and Co.

Like, Co. Space, capitalized host. And then you go way across the page and then you go host. Co. Co. C-Sports and Co. He's the host of the... Buddy, you know we love you.

We adore you. Yeah, sure. But your lineups suck. Yeah, you know what? They should pay me more. It wouldn't change the thing. Oh, it might. At the top of the hour on our national program,

Nate Thompson will join us. Want me to read that one for you? No, no, I got this one. It says former NHLer. Cole, come and save this segment for us, please. You and your hockey team are, I hope off to a good start in terms of you as well, to the season. Welcome aboard, man. How are you?

Good. How are you guys? We're good. We're good. So I look at the standings today and lo and behold tied for most wins. I think we saw an improved Utah hockey club but I don't think anybody saw going into November tied for the NHL lead and

wins. Where do you attribute it the most? I know that's a good question. I think for the most part, it's been a collective effort, but I think we're starting to see a couple of things. First and foremost, you know, the goaltending has been really good. Karel Hamelka and Vitechuk have been one of the best tandems in the National Hockey League. And, you know, Veggie is, I think he's top 15 in terms of goals against average.

And, you know, they'd say percentage is just okay. I think it's in the 30s. But as far as the league goes, But he's giving his chance, his team a chance to win every night, which is big, you know, keeping games close. Another thing that I think is really starting to take shape is, you know, we're seeing the growth of players like Logan Cooley and Dylan Gunther and J.J. Paterka, we're all on track for career seasons yet again. You know, each of those guys have taken 15 to 20 point jumps over the last couple of years. And now that they're all on a line, they call it the kid line out here in Utah. and they've just been playing incredibly well.

And then as well, you know, when you look at this team, even from just a roster standpoint compared to a season ago, what they were able to do is add a lot of depth, you know, is to bring in guys like Natchman, Brandon Tanev, you know, re-sign, Ian Cole and, you know, just in Vtec Vanichek. So what that's done is, I think, add a lot more experience, you know, guys who have gone deep into the playoffs, you know, recent Stanley Cup champions.

I think they have nine total Stanley Cups in their room now. So that's paid dividends. And it's made the biggest difference in terms of, you know, rather than, you know, kind of panicking or getting too high or too low like they did last season in tight games, they've been able to just kind of stay, you know, consistent and mature and power through. And, you know, over the last week or so, they've won a lot of close games. They've lost a few.

but they've been in every single game. And obviously, you know, as you mentioned, tied for the most wins, you know, there in the National Hockey League. So a lot of things are going right for this team right now. So when the Toronto Maple Leafs fans are sitting there tonight and watching Utah for the first time this season, will they see a Nick Schmaltz that looks like Prime Wayne Gretzky here,

this guy near the league leading scoring? What's going on with Nick Schmaltz this year? Oh, it's a contract season, right? You know, it's a big year. It's a big year for him, regardless if he, you know, decides to remain with Utah or move on. You know, it's a player who's, you know, still, I think, in his prime, but it's a prove-it season. It's a year where he's got to put points up on the board regardless of what he wants to do, and that's what's going on.

And, yeah, I think that's, you know, maybe another kind of key factor of what's impacting Utah's success is, you know, guys like Clayton Keller and Nick Schmaltz have, you know, have raised their level of intensity. And I think, you know, those two are the primary reason that they're both having success. You know, they're just inseparable on the ice. They have an incredible chemistry. I mean, I don't know if you guys watched the game last night against Buffalo, but, you know, the goal that Nick Schmaltz was able to score was, you know, just really served on a platter for him by Keller after coming into the zone.

He gets the puck. You know, he, you know, fakes the goalie out with his eyes, knows that Nick Schmaltz is trailing behind him coming across, sends it across the slot, knows he's there and he finishes it off. So Nick Schmalt is having a heck of a season. Obviously, all credit to him, but a lot of it has to do with just how good of a duo, how good of a pair, you know, him and Keller are. They just seem to always know where the other's at,

put the puck in dangerous places for the other to finish off. You're listening to Cole Bagley, Mammoth Insider for KSL Sports and co-host of Utah Hockey Pod. Cole, you mentioned contract season. you've got an owner that isn't scared to spend some money on contract. And we've seen some big ones lately. Just talk about the tone that Brian Smith, who is kind enough to send me a Utah mammoth jersey or send the show.

And hats and everything. He bought our love. So, yeah, he bought our love here. But just the ripple effect to the players on the ice. Well, are you guys wearing them right now? now or no it's hanging in the studio it's it's hanging up we're not there yet but we're getting closer no Ryan um it's hard not to be biased just because of what I've seen him do in such a short amount of time um in not only bringing the NHL to Utah but um you know sparing no expense

going 100 miles an hour and wanting to do whatever it takes to build a championship organization You know, in less than 18 months, you know, he brought in a team. He got the vast majority of the team to buy in, the organization to buy in. He built a world-class training facility in that amount of time. And then he's also been able to renovate the Delta Center. And, you know, I think he's also, I think a big thing that he's done for the organization, you know, obviously formerly the coyotes, is he's kind of let the front office loose. You know, the handcuffs are off, and, you know, Bill Armstrong has been able to go to work and, I think, do things that before were a little tougher.

You know, if this team was still in Arizona, there's no way they would have traded Josh Stone. It just wouldn't have happened. But now in Utah, you know, they've been able to make moves and go and get guys. You know, obviously, JJ Petrka was the biggest addition of the off season, and that's been paying dividends. You know, I think it was a pretty equal trade. Obviously, Josh Stone and Michael Kessering have been having a decent year so far in Buffalo. Ryan has told, you know, his people in that organization that, you know, failure is not an option and they're going to do whatever it takes to build a championship

organization so far, so good. You know, Ryan played a pivotal role in getting Logan Cooley to sign that extension. And that's a big deal, right, given the fact that the cap is going up and players like Cooley or, you know, maybe a little more hesitant to sign because they want to make sure that their contract stand the test of time to get him locked in for eight years is huge and especially at that number you know I was expecting maybe you know closer to 11 million AAB and they got him locked in for 10 and a lot of it had to do with with Ryan kind of stepping into the conversation helping coolly feel welcomed and you know making sure that he was fully bought in so as I said

you know it's hard not to be biased but you know Ryan Smith is doing an unbelievable job You know, not only creating a new hockey market, but helping prepare this team to be good for many years. That's interesting to hear that he's, you know, hands on in that regard. And it sounds like it's been a positive experience in that way. As the team moves along this year and obviously the central division is a very tough division, I'm looking at Utah's cap space. I'm looking at their draft picks. Like they have capital.

They're able to do some stuff. How should we anticipate that they play out sort of this push towards the trade deadline? Yeah. I don't know that Bill is going to do anything out of the ordinary, but he's someone that's always aggressive, that's always looking at his team and wondering how it can get better, where can it improve? And I think moving forward and similar to what he's done over the last few seasons

is if a player becomes available or if there's certain chatter or talk that there's a certain skater out there and whatnot that is interested in a move or a team that's interested in moving a guy and it makes sense for Utah to become part of that deal and that option, he's going to exercise the ability to do that. And, you know, I think it's hard to argue that Utah is not one of the best teams, at least one of the most prepared teams for the future given all of their assets, right? I mean, they've got incredible young talent in, you know, guys like Cooley and, you know, in Gunther, who were locked up for nearly the next decade.

They've got, you know, some key veterans locked up for quite a while in Keller and Sergachev. But then, you know, they've got a lot of prospects, you know, they've got DeNal Boot down in the HL, they've got Caleb Denouye, they've got Tiji Gimla, they've got Coble Duane, and they still have more picks. And so, yeah, I would anticipate that, you know, Bill's going to, you know, kind of see where this team is at. And, you know, if they have an opportunity to really make a push here, and if they can get somebody that makes them even better and, you know, potentially is a good deal that's a decent

tradeoff in terms of, hey, you know what, we're pretty set in regards to our youth and in regards to our prospects. You can't keep them all at the end of the day. And so if there's a trade that kind of comes to fruition, I would not be shocked at all to see Bill continue to stay aggressive. You know, he wants to build a championship organization. I don't think he's overly far away, but they still need a few pieces. So, yeah, I would say, you know, keep on. on Utah. You know, they're prepped to make a deal at any point. Cole, great stuff.

Thanks for the update on Utah. We'll make things interesting tonight as they face off against the Toronto Maple Leafs. Enjoy the game. All right. Thanks, fellas. Appreciate your time, Cole. Thanks. It's Cole Bagley. Covers the Mammoth for KSL Sports and also co-host of the Utah Hockey Pod.

Well, that interview was happening. We got word that Easton Cowan has been sent to the Toronto Marley. Okay. They had to make room with Lawton coming off IR. That's what you're getting at before. They're not going to waive Blay, right?

Because they've liked, I think, what they've seen from him, they're not going to get rid of yarn crock. It's just, it's an easy, it's the easiest thing to do. I don't even know, Phil, like, that's the beauty of having the Toronto Marley's here.

Yeah, it could be today. It could be paper trail. It could be, don't move, stick around. And we'll see what happens. after tonight. I'm curious because to me it's a battle of like what's best for a kid's development versus managing ego, right?

Like it's you don't want to hurt the feelings by saying you're sent down, go play in the American League sort of thing. But it's like there's no doubt it would be better for him to just play. I think your first thought is there's a selfishness amongst Barubi and Brad Tree Living that just comes down to is our team. better with him or without him right now and that's it i think the development question and all of that comes after we need points we need to play better are we a better team with him in the lineup tonight or are we not so clearly they they they believe that they can win without him yeah but hope

but my point is that often big picture doesn't come into play until you're comfortable with a little picture and right now they're they need wins they need to keep stretching this thing out i i don't think you could watch cowen so far and be like this guy's the difference and you know but so but then at that point maybe you if you need him later in the year he gets better playing in the american it's it's it's the whole it's the whole package too like i told you about like there's some some teams that just insist on having two or three young kids come in now and just changed the room up a little bit. It changes the way the veterans

operate in the room, on the road. It's just a process of advancing your team. I'm surprised though that... 24 hours a day, opposed to just a two-and-a-half-hour game. But I'm surprised how short-sighted you're talking about this. Like, this kid being the best version he can be for you is hugely important. I told you. They had no prospects.

They had a pretty good game against Philly. If they would have finished the third period Monday like they played the first two periods, we'd be having a different discussion all week. And it would have been a shorter, short-sighted conversations. Okay. That's my opinion anyways. Yeah, that's fine. And that's why it's short-sighted right now.

They just, they need wins here. They need, they need, they need some breathing room. They need a long stretch of, like, we're heading in the right direction. And this is a team built to win in the playoffs. And they're not there. Their job, though, is to zoom out and to be like, you're, no, no, all you ever talk about is winning the Stanley Cup. We couldn't mention John DeVar's name without you going, but can't win you a cup. And now we're going, they got to win tomorrow night, like about Easton Cowan.

Yeah, no, no, for sure. So which is it? Like, you know, Easton. It's both. It's both. It's short and winning the cup. To me, winning the cup is as short as I'm talking now. Okay.

Okay. Your big picture, when you want to tell me about big picture for Cowan, you're talking about two years, five years, 12 years, I'm talking about six months, eight months. That's it. I am. And then, I don't know, more people get fired. People want to leave.

That's how short-sighted I think this season is for the Toronto Maple Leafs, that this is a fork in the road. season right now but like it's great you know we just saw a top prospect of the blue jays treya savage do this thing through the miners where it's like he got the ball he got the starts he got better he worked his way up and by the time they needed him yeah he's the best version of himself you ever could have expected way too much to ask in game seven can i tell you that that's that's striking lightning i know that's not prospects everyday prospects but there's no one in the development of prospects who says the best thing for this kid is 10 minutes,

two out of every three games. There's no one who would say that. So I think it's... But there's some that would say he's still better off with us now here. Yeah. Coach? Coach, general managers, for sure. That no matter what, I'm still not ready to send him down for a prolonged period of time.

That he's better developing here now with us, mentally, physically, spiritually, of the above. I say this, you know, as someone who this week has said, he looked ready last game. He looked good enough to play in the NHL. They're just not deep enough to think about over-cooking him right now.

They're not, they don't have that luxury. I think with Scott Lotton coming in, that makes him 15 forwards right now. I think it's, they absolutely have that luxury. This is, and he may be down for a day.

He may be back tomorrow the second they move. I'm telling you, there are times when I've watched him this year, he'd be my top three hardest working guy. Great. I'll go out there and work so hard. I'm not good enough. You know, like it's a matter of,

it's not just an effort thing. Nick Robertson's been trying his ass off for four years. Efforts not enough. You know, like it's... They were so bad at times this year that effort was just the first sign of life. So what's your point? They shouldn't have sent him down?

I'm saying... You would have way... I'm saying that he's still valuable to me to stay up. So you would have kept him up and waived play? Listen, I don't know if he's going to go down for a prolonged period of time. If he goes down for the next two weeks and they don't touch him, then obviously they feel a lot more about what J.B.'s talking about. If that guy comes back by the weekend or next week,

then what was the point to begin with? Our boy, Jake, the snake, text to me, a picture of the key that he made for Cole, and he did KSL and Co. He was tricked by the lineup, though. Oh, really? Yeah. Clean sweep. But I may have had a dozen concussions, but, like, I still know.

Oh, right. All right. Our thanks to Cole, Bagley, on the latest on the Utah Mammoth, as they take on the Toronto Maple Leafs. Wednesday night game of the week, isn't it? Yeah. That's Coach Bank. There you go.

All right, we go live to our national show next. Nate Thompson will join us for the first time his debut on Real Kipper and Bourne.