Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Line Combos & Crushing the Caps

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs' 7-2 win over the Capitals on the back of a 2-goal effort from Auston Matthews. They get into what was a rare quick start for the Leafs, returns on the Matthews/Domi/Bertuzzi line, where Marner will fit back in when he returns and  Tom Wilson's high stick on Noah Gregor. Then, a chat about the pressure on the Capitals' young core to force the puck to Ovechkin. Later, they are joined by Craig Simpson (31:02), who shares his thoughts on Woll's performance and the Leafs' direction in net, the Domi/Matthews combo, whether TJ Brodie's season can be salvaged after his first healthy scratch of the year and the difficulties of lineup experimentation at this point in the season.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right let's get her going the real kipper and born show we're live on sports at 590 sports at 360 and sports net plus can't catch us live get us on a podcast in texas at 590 590 sammy is all raring to go as we close out this week why are are you all, you know what, in giggles right now? I'm just, full disclosure, I saw a really funny Shohei Otani-related meme. And it hit me and made me laugh. And I didn't think you saw me laugh. Okay. Get me up to speed on this.

His interpreter's in trouble. I don't really know. He's in trouble. I don't know a lot of the alleged details there's a lot of details and a lot of them are alleged boys but it's not pretty there was a four and a half million dollar wire transfer from his bank account to a supposed illegal uh bookie because gambling is illegal in in uh california california there's no betting. They have no commercials. They have no nothing. It's illegal there. Really?

Listen, it's like I said. Everybody was cleared by now. Not accusing anyone of anything, but this ain't pretty. And this is not the way Rob Manfred probably wanted to start his MLB season with his biggest superstar who just sent a $700 million, have it as an interpreter, be betting same game parlays. They initially said that it was the interpreter who had been gambling and that Shohei covered the debt for him.

And then it turns out you can't wire money to a bookie, so Shohei was going to be in trouble. So they said the interpreter stole the money. Stole the money. So they've changed their story. So now the interpreter's on the hook for... Oh, wow. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it's quite a story. Great drama. It is. As the world turns on this one. Buddy, if he had to come to Toronto, he'd be fine. Deal. Deal. It's not inconceivable that he could end up with a voided contract.

And, you know, maybe Toronto's here with the next one. Let's go. We'll take it for 600. I'll take back everything I said. All right. You can bet on that one. Let's get her going on our Leaf edition of the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. The Leafs beat up on the Washington Capitals,

led by Austin Matthews with his 56th, 57th, and what we thought was his 58th, only to come back on a Todd Bertuzzi hangnail. Who? Tyler. Tyler Bertuzzi. I mean, that's the worst leg drag i've ever seen just stop at the blue line man just cut laterally do something oh man but outside of that uh

listen we we spent a good portion of yesterday's show talking about having a good start and lo and behold 16 seconds in one nothing for the toronto way police you see how that works yeah that was nice nice change of pace there i don't know they looked that different they just they didn't hit the post this time they went into the net this time yeah i don't know it was good though good to see you know the uh to break some of the narratives that they had going after a tough night in philadelphia um you know back to back in washington to come out hot like that was great and it was the start of a great night for max domey four assists him and matthews have a little something going little two-man game going there and uh i think that's a main point of

intrigue for me is is that real or is that just a blip? In about 30 minutes, we're going to welcome in Craig Simpson, former NHL or Stanley Cup champion twice. And of course, Hockey Night in Canada. And we've had Craig on many times. Probably been a little bit more difficult for him because we got pushed later on in the day, but we're thrilled to have him on today. Dan Murphy at the top of the hour as well to get into some Canucks.

Another big, famous name from Hockey Night in Canada. A couple of big, famous names tonight. Absolute Sportsnet Hockey Night in Canada legends, only on The Real Kipper and Board Show. Okay, so, Borny, we're going to start off our Kippers Clipper with Sheldon Keefe on his overview of the game, and we'll get into the look that you were speaking of, of Domi and Matthews.

Yes, sir. I really liked it. Obviously, a little bit of a flip of the script in terms of our starts in the first and second period, but it was good to see, and then probably even better than that was that each time Washington got one and looked like they were getting life, we stayed on the attack and built our lead from there. So I

like the response overall in the game but also like the response within the game as it was going on. Alright, so the Leafs handled their business right? They took care of the Capitals. Should I be the first one to say it? Calf stink, man. Okay.

The Leafs handled their business. Don't go there because everybody's going to go. You're not giving the Leafs enough credit. That's the danger that we fall into on this show. You can only beat who you play. Not everyone is good. They handled their business. Good job, Leafs.

The Leafs went in and handled a team that had been rested who is scrapping for their playoff lives, and they went in there in the second half of back-to-back, and they beat them. They came off one of the best goalie in the month of March. They came off a 10-day Western trip, too, which is not helping them. Didn't play in the Caps' favor, for sure.

Did not play in the Caps' favor, and Lingren probably had one of his worst games this season. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, the Caps were in a tough spot, too, and whatever. But I'm just saying, can I not say the Capitals don't look very good? Okay, can I go one step further? Sure. Please. Rasmus sandin they signed him to what again it's a four and a half million per season i think he got like 25

million bucks for six years boy oh boy did you watch him try to get over the blue line and toe drag like three times? He was trying to. Trying. He was trying to make a point. I really hope at some point someone on the Washington capital bench said, Kate, that's the reason why they got rid of you. Yeah, 4.6 until 2029. He had an assist.

He was plus one last night, boys. What was wrong? Is he the best they have on that blue line? I don't know. No. I mean, he's not. But anyway, so not the best night from Washington. Leafs look real good.

In terms of that top line, Bertuzzi, kind of a strange start to the game. He didn't play. It had everybody out there on uh what's wrong with tyler bertuzzi sam he had the best tweet about it what did you tweet oh i i forget what he was late for the game he's having a dart and a monster he's having a dart and a monster energy i tried to say like i couldn't find his warm-up jorts you know he was late for a meeting it's uh it it it does speak volumes to the league in general on just lack of depth like the leafs don't have anybody else like they

actually if if you didn't start off feeling well it's not like you're you're saying okay go back to the room you're done they they there's just a lack of depth right now in lineups to to they'd rather have them on the bench and like Washington Capitals okay not to get into Wilson having a in-person hearing on his slash on on Gregor but they're gonna lose him for five or six games. They're screwed too. They don't have anybody else to come in and fill a void, or not that you can fill a void on Wilson, but there is nobody. There is not even a close NHL quality body that you can bring in for the next five games for the Washington Capitals. So it's just weird to me that Bertuzzi

if he's not feeling great, you just left him on the bench to weather it through. Well, to me, you're on the road trips. You probably only brought X amount of bodies. Ryan Reeves took a thumb to the retina or whatever happened in his fight last night. So you can't

put him in after warm-up. So it's like, you know know we don't know how he was feeling necessarily but not great it sounds like but what did he end up with last night you know he was obviously well enough we just had the one goal hey one point i thought he was a lot more involved in that i guess he had the screen on the school that was helpful but he did his part you know got in there for all of 14 minutes or something so but that was weird i was trying to figure what's going on i guess it was illness so he did get in for 14 yeah and he missed the first 10 minutes of the first so he played a normal shift basically right after that that is strange very weird start him if

you're gonna use them and i subruder filmed it i went back because i saw something at the start of the game and shelvin key from the trainer were having before they did the chris simon uh moment of silence him and they were having a spirited conversation. He was pointing at the trainer and saying something to him. It's like, I don't know, do you have the trots? What was wrong with him? You obviously, I mean, you have the flu.

Something weird. I don't know. I don't completely want to hear the clip. Yeah, we got a clip. Yeah. On Bertuzzi. He was questionable whether he was even going to play tonight and uh so you know he was he just before warm-up was saying he just wasn't feeling right and uh he went through warm-up still wasn't quite feeling it um but uh felt good enough to the point that he was going to stay in uniform he didn't have any others in uniform here tonight. Our only other eligible player was Brody,

who we were sort of giving a mental day away today anyhow, so decided to stick with Bert. But he just wanted some time before the game was going, just getting out there with the noise and all the things that go on in the chaos of the game just to make sure he was good. Once we got through the first TV timeout, he went out for a little skate and thought he was good to go. So we put him in the mix.

I kind of don't believe him. Agree. I kind of feel like maybe Burt missed a meeting or whatever, and they're like, you're going to miss the first 10 minutes of the game. We don't want to make a story out of it. I don't believe you. I would. In today's world, like maybe you could bluff your way a few years ago,

but in today's world. We know too much. Yeah, that stuff you can't keep internal. And if there is something that Sheldon's caught in a flat-out lie, it's way worse today than it would be years ago. It's like pulling an Otani. You can't lie like that. No, you can't. And he really went in on it by saying he went

out at the timeout. He did go all the way in on it, so it's probably not a lie. It's not worth it. It's just not worth it for him to get caught in a lie. Nope. Classic Toronto media, buddy, trying to start it up.

Holy. All right. I'm convinced. I'm convinced. Good game by him. Top line. Before we dive into this deeper, let's go to Sheldon Keefe talking about Matthews, Domi, and Bertuzzi. Yesterday, I liked him, which is why we wanted to stay with it today.

But obviously, today was even better. Those guys had a little more time with the puck today, and they just made plays. Like I said, Max was outstanding. I thought Austin put on a clinic through most of the game here tonight, and Bert was battling through something here today with illness, and even he, once he got going into the game, he was good. So what do you think, Kip?

Are you buying or selling this as a real line? Game 67, first of all, that they push Domi up with Matthews. We only talked about it since game two. Insanity. Yeah. Like what took you so long? Give it a look. You know, he's an elite offensive mind and with some skills.

Like let's just check it out. We don't have to love it, but let's find out. Yeah. And they seem to really like playing with one another. Well, first of all, that's how i envision uh max domey uh not to be a number one left winger on the line but a guy that can just move up and down your lineup accordingly and right now it's it's a good thing now is max gonna hold this spot i would hope come saturday against the edmonton oilers which is a big game anyway anyway you slice it i don't care standings no standings move up move down sexy matchup

doesn't matter it's a measuring stick kind of game for the way you're going to feel moving forward i expect max to be on the left side i expect austin matthews and i expect mitch marner you do yes oh buddy that would be wonderful i'd love to see how that line i expect yeah go ahead no well you know you're going up against the edmonton oilers measuring stick game with you know their elite talent and you know you want to have a sense for ken domey play in that spot you haven't given it a look, and you've got Matthew Nyes there who doesn't necessarily work, but he's not terrible. Bertuzzi doesn't necessarily work, but he's not terrible.

Max makes plays. Max has vision that Bertuzzi doesn't or Nyes. Nyes played half the season on that line with his head down. I'm sorry but and his point production has shown that and even the last couple games i've seen him and matthews try to make a couple plays they're just not in sync max makes plays i just think they're so obsessed with having someone on the forecheck who wins back pucks for for mitch and austin eventually if you're up against florida in the first, that might be an issue.

Yeah, but give it a look again. But give it a look. You just hope that between now and the end of the year that there's ample proof why you want to give it some time game one and game two of the Stanley Cup playoffs if you're leaning towards it. So I want to ask you a question. In the absence of mitch marner

with austin matthews his three assists aside last night do you feel like he's passing the puck more does it look like he's trying to do something different or buddy i've been calling for this forever yeah okay last night austin matthews was a centerman and and there's no question that i i'm sure sheldon or somebody went up to him and the moment i heard what a few days ago facilitator that's another way to say to austin matthews buddy start passing the puck start moving the puck and give yourself a different look so you do you think at all it's like mitch isn't here so someone has to or do you think it said someone talked to him and said someone talked to him yeah and i can appreciate on some nights our our boy sammy calling austin the second best player in the world but a week ago the second best player in the world. But a week ago, the second best player in the world

was tied for 114th in the league in assists. There's not a world that exists that Austin Matthews last week should have been 114th in the league in assists. Last night, to me, was one of the few times that Austin looked like Connornor and nathan mckinnon and he looked less like ovi who just wants to get open in the offensive zone wave the stick up in the air and say feed me well so what i'm curious about then is like when mitch comes back does this free you up a little bit to not have to have the two of them together

and let Mitch drive another line? Because Mitch can. I think it's an excellent question. Yes, I think there's a possibility that maybe you could part them if Austin continues to have a different kind of look. Because I think over the last last few years there's been a tremendous amount of pressure on mitch marner to get austin the puck and it's like i told you then

it becomes a little repetitive uh predictable and i just i loved austin last night looking like a a true centerman yeah so i asked um thanks to thanks to Megan Chaykett, Stathletes, I asked Stathletes for this, for a stat on his passing before the last six games with Marner out and with and without Marner. And so he's averaging

six more passes per game since Mitch has been out, so over these most recent games. And his passes to the slot have gone from 1.9 per game to 4.1 per game. 4.2 leads the NHL. That's Kucherov, and he's 4.1 since Mitch has been out.

He's just conscious of it. Yeah. And I don't think he's happy to look at his assist total and go, I'm not up there with the elite in the game. And I think he's made a conscious effort to go out there and say, yeah, I'm'm gonna start trying to make more plays way better it looks it looks way better and also the puck comes back to him right it like pushes people away and he can get open again it's so let me throw this one at you

because i was talking about this a little bit last night and i want to ask your opinion on it maybe you'll shoot me down crazy here but if you want to keep tavaris as sort of your pseudo third line guy who has you know a chance against better matchups and he's looked good in that sort of role, and you want to keep Marner and Matthews on separate lines, but you're looking for a center, right, because you have Domi on the top line, would you ever consider in these last few games

where you're trying everything anyway to try the Willie at center thing and put Marner on the wing with him before the end of the season? Or Mitch at center? We have had these conversations before. Listen, because they told us to in preseason, they said that they were going to do, we're going to give it some run.

I believe it's a run. And they're like, I saw Fraser Minton squirrel. I wish they would have same, but you think you can't try it now in these games that don't mean anything. He puts 25 different lines in the ice every game anyway. Why not try it? Okay.

You got me. I'm good with it. Okay. Yes, I am. And I don't think for one second that they're locked in. They're not Paul Maurice and the Florida Panthers that have played with six lines in the last year and a half. Right. They've experimented like 30 or 40 probably

in the same amount of time. But I don't think anything's fixed right now when it comes to this lineup and who ultimately will be with who in game one. So if you did Domi, Bertuzzi, Matthews, and then you had Mitch and Willie on the line together with Yarncroft maybe I'd I'd I'd go Marner in the middle Marner in the middle with Willie and I wish he had a little bit more uh

experience in the last few years but he's he was always a natural centerman Mitch Marner I don't think you can just try like to me I think he'd probably be better at it but it's an easier sell to be like the guy that we've talked about in the past and has done it in the past as opposed to Mitch. Has he ever done it at the NHL level? I don't think they ever have put him there. I don't think so. If it has, it's been so minimal.

Yeah. But that's a dozen, what, 14 games to go to maybe just have a few different looks. But there's undeniable chemistry between Domi and Matthews. Like, they really do seem to play well together. Matthews likes playing with them because he gets him the puck in the right spots and he likes passing to him.

I am concerned to see how, you know, they have played two fringy playoff teams. I am curious to know if they could find space against Boston, Floridaida those sort of teams which is what we're trying to figure out more big heavier yeah teams can they find that space don't mean particularly so i'm talking about yeah uh ov two goals kind of gives you the he's what 50 behind gretzky so now and it's 49 no it's 50 isn't it oh okay i might have said 49 at least talk but i think i was wrong but i think it's 50 i'm just looking now whatever it's it's that

amount but it's clear that he's getting this year next year it's feed me the puck 49 from tying 50 from the record Have you ever seen anything more absurd than Dylan Strom passing out of the top of the crease to Ovi on that one play for Ovi to score? Ovi's second goal. I'm shocked it went in. I mean, it shouldn't have. Is there a pay, like some sort of,

for like assist to Ovi? What was Strom doing? No, I'm telling you, the pressure on these kids to get them the puck should not be underestimated. Think about it. Like that's not Backstrom anymore and it's not even Kuznetsov.

You got McMichael. This guy's just learning how to be an NHL player and he's on the number one line with a guy going to break Wayne Gretzky's record. Can you just comprehend what kind of feeling that would be every game to get Ovi the puck for one second?

Think about it. I know. After Ovi leaves, none of them are going to know how to shoot. They're all passing it to each other. How many shot attempts did he have last night? It felt like 1,000. Oh, he's taking fall-away jumpers from the blue line. So I kind of, you wonder what it's going to look like

for the remainder of the season and all of next year for some of these kids to, like, the number one priority is Ovi getting this record. Yep. That's awful. Isn't that awful? Like, what are we doing here? They ain't getting any record. Yep. That's awful. Isn't that awful? Like, what are we doing here? They ain't getting any better.

They stink. It doesn't happen. Ovi had 11 attempts last night. I get what you're saying, but... No, no, no. I'm right. They signed him to a five-year contract last year, and this is...

It's a team orbiting around the sun that is Ovi, waiting for him to do his thing and turn into a black hole and go away before they all get to play hockey again. Barry Bonds, it's... You're chasing Hank. It's all about... The Bonds one's interesting. It's all about the moment now.

It's not about the team. It's about Ovi's moment. Right. It's about the team. It's about Ovi's moment. It's about the chase. I hate to be on the side of Ovi, but it's not a minimal record he is chasing. He is chasing the all-time record for goals, which is the most important thing.

And it's not going to look pretty here. He's the greatest goal scorer of all time. Disagree. He doesn't have the most goals of all time, so therefore not the greatest goal scorer of all time. Disagree. He doesn't have the most goals of all time, so therefore not the greatest goal scorer of all time. Era adjusted, yes. Yeah, era adjusted. All right, let's get Chuck. How would Ovi do in Gretzky's era?

He'd put it through Tom Barrasso's neck. He wouldn't even be allowed in Canada. He would have been in Russia, buddy. Do we care about Sheldon's thoughts on Ovi? Or not really? Yeah, we should play it. Go ahead, It's fine. Okay, go ahead.

We're going to have to cover those one-timers in the pre-scout maybe. But, yeah, obviously he found that for two in the net, but he found some others here tonight. Obviously guys look for him. I don't know how we handled some of those situations, but, yeah, world-class player. And if we can get to two points and still allow him to add to his total, I guess we'll take that and everybody leaves somewhat happy.

Whatever. It's the right thing to say. No, it's not. What do you want him to say? We're trying to stop him from scoring goals. We don't want him to get the record. We want Auston Matthews to have the record. Okay.

That's what you should have said. Matthews, by the the way through 548 career nhl games is about 20 goals ahead of ovechkin's pace 19 goals ahead of where ovi was after 548 so okay all right he is okay we gotta make up our minds here okay oh here we go i think i think I think there's an obsession over Matthews and 70 goals or chasing now Ovi. Okay? The obsession, Sammy, should be winning a Stanley Cup. Agreed. All right?

No argument for me. And just to go to our conversation a few minutes ago where Austin's looking like a centerman and he's not shooting everything inside. I was one time a goal scorer in junior hockey. I've played with some of the best goal scorers. Yeah, Danglin' Palmerese. I have the last two things you said on my resume.

Goal scorers are cookie monsters, and they tend to be a little greedy. Yeah. We know that. You know that. Yeah. Okay? They like to score.

They want their goals. Okay? They can't. It's like oxygen. They can't breathe without it. And it's great that Ovi's been in the league and he's mustered 60, 70 goals and he's won one cup.

There's no 70. 60 is five. Okay, whatever. It's a big difference. Okay. Yes. All right. He hasn't got 70.

Continue. He's got the one Stanley Cup. Can you imagine what you'd be talking about Ovi right now with all these goals and not if he didn't have one championship? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Selfish, greedy. about Ovi right now with all these goals and not if he didn't have one championship oh yeah okay yeah selfish greedy all he cared about with his goals don't turn Austin into that with a 65 or 70 if you if if Connor or Nate had the same mentality of shoot first like Austin's had in his first six or seven,

I think they'd probably score 65, 70 goals. They don't, though, because they want more to their game. They want to facilitate. They want to move it. That's just my point here is that we get caught up in this 70 and all of it and, like, just back off the guy. And maybe if the Toronto media didn't talk about it every day, 70 goals, maybe actually he would back off trying to shoot everything in sight.

Connor doesn't have a cop yet, though, so he can't. Him and Nate, to me, are not the same conversation that in that sort of but they play they they play the similar type of game where they're out there as a centerman for sure trolling and they're unpredictable and they they make plays and they're what i'd love to know if connor was in this market what you would say about him just knowing that austin is a guy who's on selkie ballots and leads the league in block shots and the way he commits in his own end i'm curious if you would talk about mcdavid differently if you saw him every night but the leafs don't share the puck like those teams no

they don't snap it around their power play looks like it's in like quicksand compared to Edmonton's and Colorado's. Boy, that power play. So all I know is that those guys have a similar look every night where they're moving the puck, and Austin needs to be the guy leading the charge so they can push those numbers that you just spoke of moments ago to me. Like those are better numbers for him, right? Yeah, no doubt. I mean, it's looked really good.

It's tough for me to tease out what's what, right? You're playing these teams in different lines. Has something changed? Could he play like this more? Maybe. I mean, it would be wonderful if he did. Tom Wilson. Should mention that before we get to break.

Yeah. did uh tom wilson should mention that before i get the break for uh yeah called in for an in-person hearing on his uh stick to gregor's face you watch it two or three times and you're like it it looks bad yeah it looks bad yeah it's one of two things it either is bad or it's reckless and either way it's super very apologetic almost after. It's almost like he recognized as soon as he did it. He put his arm around him. Are you okay? It's like you very seldom see that.

I mean, Kip, he one hand whips his stick across his face. Was he just trying to kind of break away or just trying to swat him away like a fly a little bit and it got out of control? I think he was trying to maybe wrap it around his body or something. Listen, he looked right at him. Like the video was bad. Like he looked at him and wrapped it around and whacked something listen he looked right at him like the the video was bad like he looked at him and wrapped it around and whacked him right in the mouth did anything happen prior to that or were they just just rubbed him out into the boards i gave him a little body but i don't know i mean it's gregor i don't think gregor was jawing at tom wilson What's cracked his teeth off. Like it's a, can't do that. Five games.

I guess. Oh, that'll end. That ends their push. Well, put them out of their misery. Provide the pillow to smother the capitals. You don't think it's,

you don't think it's a five gamer. It's so, it doesn't fit that the five game kind kind of mold for me it's so not done out of anger right no yes it is he just pushed him into the boards and then wrapped his sticker on the face and slashed him in the mouth it to me and then you console him after that it's reckless it's i don't think come on there's so little malice. They're in a play. They took some stupid penalties, too. They're just horrible. They just stink.

They just stink. They stink. But the good news for them is the Islanders stink. Florida or Boston fighting to draw the Capitals is a real fight at the top of the division. It just doesn't follow the narrative of a five-game suspension on guys that are supposed to hate each other. I think Tom Wilson was last suspended in 2021, so I'm sure having

a history plays into this, right? Like, can't do that. All right, where do you want to go? I think we got to go to get TJ Brody, or are we going to take a break and come back on those conversations? We also got Craig Simpson. We'll take a break and come back on those conversations we also got Craig Simpson we'll take a break and then come back

you heard the boss quick word and we're back on Real Kipper and Born with Craig Simpson covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective Jays Talk Plus with Blake Murphy be sure to subscribe and download Jays Talk on Apple, Spotify

or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. We got Simmer. All right, as advertised, let's welcome in craig simpson former nhler two-time stanley cup champion hockey night canada and uh derrick brando tells me um he dropped him let's call let's call a drop we haven't had too many drops hey it's a really good point sammy yeah you've been on a heck of a run thank you I was waiting for that I mean we do a lot of zoom right so it's a lot harder for her to drop during zoom but

I remember last year it was bad you were on a horrible Kevin Kerr's drop three times I mostly enjoy that it Kip has tied it directly to your performance like you're holding the call physically I think it's fair I do like honestly if I was in Kipper's chair, I would blame the producer. All right, here we go. Craig Simpson, take two. Did you dump me, Kipper, or what? I heard you for a second, welcomed me in,

and then I was gone. Simmer, I blame everything on Sammy. Okay, all right. Good job, Sammy. Whatever I can. Listen, really appreciate it. You know, unfortunately, since they moved our scheduling up, we

haven't had you on as often, but when we do, we're so appreciative. Thanks for joining us. How have you been, pal? I've been good. Yeah, I've been... It's good to get down to the fine strokes of the season. When you start looking at the games

left and they start with a one instead of 40 left yeah it starts to get exciting and i have been listening to you guys i often do on a game day doing a walk or an off day and uh i know it is that kind of time that everything gets exemplified and everybody's looking to the finish line of the regular season to get when it counts the most. So it is the most exciting time of the year and getting ready for the best time of it. Well, we appreciate it, Simmer. We agree it is a fun time of year.

Unfortunately, some decisions need to get made around this time of year, and the Leafs aren't exactly sure in a few places. One of them is Annette. Last night, Joseph Wohl gets back in. I thought played pretty darn good particularly in the first period gives up three what were your take on his performance last night and the direction for the leafs in net well his performance was was good like i thought he looked calm he uh he looked better than he did uh albeit I know the games. I heard you talking about it numerous times about, you know,

he got two tough games against the Boston Bruins. So I almost felt, Justin, that, you know, I almost wondered if it was a little bit of an audition saying, hey, if we're going to maybe play the Boston Bruins in the first round, let's see how this kid can handle them. And I know it was a challenging time. He had the one game against Arizona where he looked solid in his first game back, but I just didn't think he looked confident. He didn't quite have his calmness, his

swagger, his energy the same way, but you know it's a tough position to play when you haven't played much. I thought if nothing else last night he looked like he had good composure in the net it wasn't a hugely challenging game uh and you know okay ovi blasts one uh over his shoulder there but ovi's done that to about 140 goaltenders so it's hard to put a whole lot of blame on that but i thought that was a hugely important game for him though if he had another night where he gives up four or five on 25 shots like he had against the bruins you're you you can't help yourself if you're the coaching staff and looking and say i'm

not sure this guy's going to get to where we need him to be if he's going to be a choice come playoff time. So if nothing else, it should get him into the rhythm of starting to play. Maybe they go one game, one game. I know you've got back-to-back games this weekend. I think it'll be really interesting, don't you guys, to say who's the starter on Saturday. I think that'll tell a lot about what the mindset of the team is. I know it's back-to-back, and you've got Carolina the next game, which is an

Eastern Conference team, but I just think that's a marquee game. And it's this one where if you see Joseph Wall coming out first, I think that's a statement, and that's something that I'll be really intrigued to see what Sheldon's choice is going to be. Saturday night,

the statement may be Max Domi playing alongside Austin Matthews again. Simmery had his best game as a Leaf last night against Washington. As a former winger who's expected to go up with a top line like you have, what would Max have been thinking about or going through on the opportunity to play with a guy like Austin Matthews? Well, I think first and foremost, Kip, you know, like I was a center my entire life. I never played wing until my third year in the National Hockey League. And goodness me, going from center in the NHL as an 18-year-old,

19-year-old, 20-year-old, to suddenly playing wing was like, oh, my God, why haven't I been doing this my whole life? It's a breeze. This is the easiest thing. So I really do, if I was Max, and it certainly looked like it, you know, veteran guys and good players who I heard you talking about, you know, he's a guy who can make instinctive offensive plays and he can share the puck with you.

He can jump to a hole. He can make the no-look passes. He understands the roots because he's been a centerman. Getting to the wing there, you look at the opportunity to play on the Matthews line. I thought he acted like a true pro. You know, this is your chance. And he didn't squander it.

And he looked comfortable he looked energized uh i thought early in the year when he did play some wing he wasn't skating and and i thought getting him back to center got his legs going again because you do have to skate a whole lot more you got to do a lot more and i thought it got the pace of his game up but last night he he looked like oh man this is exactly where I want to be. And this is where I'm going to show him that I deserve to be. And I thought it looked good. And I really do think that part of the problem of having him at the center

position. And I heard you guys talking about, okay, when you get to play off and specifically a matchup, whether it's Florida or Boston, I, I don't think you feel all that comfortable that that he can do the layman's work in his own zone at that center position i honestly do think he can do it on the wing though and and that's a much more comfortable position and if it frees up somebody else to play a different role on a line down the line and he gets good you know chemistry with Matthews I do think it's a really viable option and I think they'd be nuts not to have him there on Saturday you know even if Mitch Marner does make an appearance I think it's worth another look

for sure and so a lot of this is like getting guys to their best selves to find a way to put them in a position to succeed and then to get them you know feeling confident heading into postseason one guy who didn't play last night tj brody they they healthy scratched him first time i can remember it happening as a toronto maple leaf you know do you feel like this season is salvageable is this a confidence thing has he just slowed down with age? What are we looking at for the viability of him as a guy who has been a great shutdown player for the Leafs? Yeah, you know, you're a little surprised that, okay, here he's a healthy scratch.

I think it was the right time against an opponent that you weren't all that concerned about. I think it was really important to get timmons you know timmons to me is you talk about a bad luck year for him he's twice you know had an injury and then sickness that he would have probably had an opportunity to prove he can play and maybe play a little bit of a more significant hole so uh i thought that was the right time to do it. I was just looking, you know, TJ's gone through the wild stretches when Riley went out with the suspension. You know, he went on a good run. He was minus four in the last two, was plus four in the two prior to that, and minus eight in the previous eight.

That tells you it's just you don't have consistency. You know, I know it's an arbitrary stat a little bit, the plus minus, but he's also been in a position where he's played 23 straight games of 20 minutes or more. And quite frankly, you know, maybe sitting in the stands and getting a little mental break, getting a little physical break will probably do him some good. You know, the question is, is it more than

one game or is it just the one? It maybe gets him centered again and gets him maybe digging in as a good veteran would having sat in the press box. I think he's a real pro. He's a solvable guy, but

there's no question that the inconsistency in his game has just been there and i think it was the right thing to do and the right time to give him a chance to sit up top and have a look at the game from a different perspective so we we know what uh the big boys are gonna have to do come game one in the stanley cup playoffs but where are you on the secondary part here in the development of McMahon and Holmberg and where Robertson fits in and what can Sheldon get out of them in the next dozen games or so to prep them for going up against a Florida or a Boston? Yeah, I think you've got to push them to get them some more ice time. And the hardest thing to do as a coach is to just get the trust to a level that you just say,

you know what, we don't really have another option. And so I've got to trust that these guys can play their best. I look at, for me, guys, I know I was an 18 year old in the NHL. So by the time I got to 2021, I had a lot of experience. I've gone through some hard knocks and learned how to play my, my best hockey in my entire life was as a 20, 21 year old and a 22, 23 year old, the best I've ever played. And so it's, it's not unusual for

young guys to you know be oblivious to the pressure and just embrace the opportunity that's there but the hardest part for a coaching staff is to have that you know sometimes it's just out of necessity that there are no other options so you have to get the trust factor to a level that maybe you wouldn't otherwise and quite frankly guys sometimes i think that's the absolutely best thing that can happen you know sometimes the coaches need to get out of their way a little bit as well and i was talking to chris cutford about it the last few days as you guys have been juggling the lines you know my my experience with Craig McAlvis coaching staff in Edmonton when I was assistant coach you'd sit in the coach's room with the whiteboard and your lines up there with the magnets and you'd say we you know this line's

killing us so you start moving a player here and there and you look at that line that maybe it's a number it's a third line and go oh my gosh that's a great lineup that looks perfect but the problem is you look at that second line or the fourth line and go but i can't play that line i can't play that line so anytime you do those little moves with with one player on a line or two guys around so often i i can tell you how many discussions we had as a coaching staff where you go, God, I love this line, but it ruins our other two. And I think that's what the experiment has been like for the Leafs during this little stretch is you put one together and you go, oh, yeah, that looks good.

And maybe we got two solid lines of scoring here, but then you can't play the fourth line against anybody. That's the challenge you have, and I agree with what you guys are saying, that now is the time to do a little experimenting. But I also think Bobby McMahon, for me, is a guy that has grown in leaps and downs in the last two, three, four weeks. He looks like a player now. He looks like he's playing at a different speed.

His mind is thinking the game at a higher speed. And I honestly think that, you know, look around the lineup and say, you're going to need a big body who can get in there. And when he gets skating, it looks like he's skating down a hill. You know, his speed has really improved. And I go, you're going to need a guy like that. So you you got to get him to the point where he feels like he can be trusted to make plays he's gonna turn the puck over so what how many times does neil and to turn it over or marner for like the best players are the biggest giveaway guys in your lineup because they have the puck all the

time so yeah you have to accept that the younger guys are going to make some mistakes but you also have to empower them to say you're important and we're going to need you like we need somebody coming in like a fernando persani for us in 2006 say scores almost as many goals in the playoffs as he did in the regular season and why can't a guy like that do it yeah it's funny i don't think there's a bigger compliment to a hockey player than say that guy's a line fixer you know whatever line you put him on that line gets better and mcmahon feels like that to me right now like you're okay with wherever he goes he seems to help them out a little bit um on the back end right now they

don't seem to have pairs how have you felt about the new additions of Labushkin and Edmondson and how this group is going to look heading into their first-round series? Yeah, that's the $63 million question. Labushkin, I think you kind of know what you're going to get with him, and he's an honest guy and he works hard. So you're going to have to live with some mistakes hard so you're gonna have to live with some mistakes you're gonna have to live with some turnovers but i think you'll probably find as the games get bigger and get grittier he's a guy that you can lean on because you're conscious that he's gonna

battle hard for you and he's gonna give you everything you got i think edmondson is finding his way of where do i fit in this lineup who's going to be my partner to me a guy like that really needs somebody who is you know a good communicator so that they can use the the veteran presence that they have to to work their way around as a pair and support each other and know where you're going to be the output I don't think he's totally comfortable yet but I think he should be able to find a way to get in there I I just I don't think he's totally comfortable yet, but I think he should be able to find a way to get in there. I just don't think there's any set pairs right now, guys. And if you can't go back or you're worried about going back

to a Riley and Brody pairing and saying, geez, that maybe can't work, then that even makes it more complicated. But, you know, to me, a guy like, you know, I like the McKayccabe benoit pairing for most of the time that they played together and i'll be interested to see if he just finally goes back and said you know they're not perfect they're probably although mccabe's had a career year uh goal wise and point wise but they're probably not a huge offensive threat

but there's another example of i i just want to know that when we get into battling barkoff or battling bennett and you know having to deal with kachuk going to the net so you got at least two pairs that can be physical and be hard and they're going to make some mistakes they may not get you a whole lot of offense but you got to be able to stop a cycle you got to be able to take a body down to end an offensive zone shift and get the puck out and you know those are sort of key guys that are going to have to find some chemistry with whomever they get in and find a way to play at a successful level simmer we only got a few minutes here i have to ask you because i really value your

opinion on this and this is ovi's pursuit of wayne's record here and i think the washington capitals are in a bit of a between a rock and a hard place here they're chasing a playoff spot yet you've got young kids there like mcmichael strome and i'm just wondering you know lapierre the the pressure that they feel every night to get Ovi the puck. Is it real? Well, I think it's instinctively. I listened. I heard you say about Strom.

I don't know if you had listened. You probably have me on mute when you're watching the game. So I was doing the replay and I'm going like I'm watching going, how is he not shooting? He's right there. And from wall, it's almost like wall, you know, he knows Ovechkin's on the side, but the guy's right down the gut. So I think there is a little, you know, they're humans and they're young kids and they're going to defer to a guy

who's been the best scorer in the league for, you know, 19 years. And so I do think it can be disruptive, but I also think the onus is going to be on Ovechkin to say, I think the way he's playing and feeling now that the goals are going in, I think it's calmed his demeanor down a little bit. I think even Spencer was saying, you know, he's more like the captain now and he's brought the energy. You know, that was Ovi at the beginning of the game,

hitting every chance he got. And that's where, when the Washington Capitals were a threat of a team, that's the Ovechkin that you sort of fear and that gets the game going and gets the team going. So you hope it doesn't become, you know, a dog and pony show where it's all about just trying to set him up around. But I don't think there's any question, Nick, that the younger guys will feel a little pressure of it.

I think the challenge for both Carvery and talking with Ovechkin is saying, guys, we've got to develop and make sure we don't drop off as a team. And if we don't, I think it's inevitable that Ovechkin's going to get there. Hey, Simmer, great stuff as always. Always love having you on the show. Thanks for doing this. All right, guys, take care. Thanks, Simmer, appreciate it. That's Always love having you on the show. Thanks for doing this. All right, guys.

Take care. Thanks, Simmer. Appreciate it. That's Craig Simpson, Hockey Night Canada analyst. Two-time Stanley Cup champion. Yeah, it's real for sure. Yeah, he said he didn't want to be a dog and pony show. There's some dogs.

There's some ponies. Maybe they're not coordinated into full-on circus yet, but we're getting there. We're just getting started here on the real Kipper and Boren show. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, Dan Murphy, host of Hockey Night in Canada, connects hockey on Sportsnet. We'll get into whether or not an eight-point lead is enough for Vancouver

to hold on or the Edmonton Oilers coming on strong. That and so much more still to go on the Real Kipper Inborn Show. Don't go away. We'll be right back.