Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Lineup Shuffle Against the Sabres

Episode Date: October 15, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee get set for the Maple Leafs' matchup against the Buffalo Sabres. They react to Jim Hiller's jumbled, 11-and-7 lineup and discuss the lack of production from the depth forwards, Kirill Marchenko's next steps, whether Chris Tanev's week-to-week status forces the Leafs to make a move for a defenceman, and if the Leafs need an enforcer in their bottom six. Later, MSG Sabres analyst Rob Ray (32:35) stops by to discuss Buffalo's start to the season, their new additions, and how Ukko-Pekka Luukkonen has navigated through trade rumours.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Game day on our Leaf Hour edition of the Real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live on SportsSat 360, 590 The Fan in Toronto, streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. And if you can't catch us live, there's Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and wherever you get your downloads. Nick Kippreel's Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jake the Snake Shultz,

and Sammy Squared is gone for the day, but gave us an amazing lineup. once again, Sammy. Yep, yep. We're worried about the day. We don't have Sam 2. Yeah, we said to him, what are you around till? Christmas?

Huh. Boy, tough January ahead. Yeah. I got to be honest. I can't go back to your lineup. Well, guess what? You don't have to until after Christmas. That's January Kipper's problem.

The Buffalo Sabres and the Toronto Maple Leafs are evenly matched. At least that's what the standings tell us. Both teams coming into tonight's contest. Test three one and one. Key Atlantic Division game at Scotia Bank Arena tonight, 7 p.m. start. Got OT written all over.

If I recall last year, it wasn't very pretty for the Leafs against the Atlantic Division. And you got to go back to back-to-back losses in Detroit. Really set a bad tone last year for the Leafs. Yeah. I thought about that.

They lost to Montreal. And went on a road trip. We could all sit there and go, okay, a few positives to that. But losing tonight to another Atlantic division team at home. There's a big difference. Let's put it this way. There's a big difference at a win and a loss tonight for the Leafs for so many different reasons.

Yeah. And I think Buffalo, if you are serious as a Toronto Maple Leaf team, fan, whatever, Buffalo is going to be a team that you're going to be competing against. There's seven teams in the Atlantic who thinks, their playoff teams. Buffalo, obviously, 109 points last year. It was an awesome, awesome run. Maybe their goal tendings not quite as good. They lost a couple of guys. Maybe they come back to the pack. They could be a team you got to catch. I have a question. How do you feel about 11 and 7? 11 forward, 70, Jim Hiller, you know, I don't know what they're doing tonight for sure,

but this has been something he's done in the past. We've seen it so far a number of times. Yeah. What do we think? I hate it. Might as well just give me three goalies. at practice every day. Yeah. My hockey includes four lines. I know who my line mates are. I may not finish with them, but I know who I'm starting with.

I know who I've practiced with. You're a team within a team, right, with your line mates. Didn't you always feel that way? Yeah, definitely. When you're with them consistently, you've kind of got your group, how are we going tonight?

We need more out of you, whatever. And you don't get that. At least. There's a few guys that don't get that at 11 and 7. I'll say the thing I do like about it for the forward group, when you're a team who has a couple elite players, you get those guys some weird shifts away from the other team's best guys. You know, Willie has had a couple of shifts with Duhaym and Bluger,

you know, which is an unusual spot where the other team can't really game plan for that game-breaking talent out there. I like it for the forwards, just some extra spots for the guy who's going that day. I'll tell you right now, I'll tell you who does like it, the good players. Oh, yeah, Bill loves it. I mean, yeah, you just get to play more. You're getting more shifts. You're getting double shifted here and there.

Like, it's a, if you're a top forward that's playing 11 and 7, you're going to be a big fan of 11 and 7 because you're going to get more time. And if you're a defenseman, you probably like it less because you're probably going to get less high side. Hiller, head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs shuffles the lines. We expect Willie Nealander and Matthews to play together. Marchenko comes off of that line here. coming off a road trip, I know he didn't say too much post game against Utah,

but as the days have progressed here, it got clear that he wasn't very happy with Utah at all. With their showing there. Yes. Yeah, the second line now, and we'll get more into that in one sec, Paul Tavares Marchenko, I think that's great for Tavares.

Like that to me is the best chance for him. You got Nick Paul, who's reliable defensively and, you know, drives play one way. And then Marchenko is fast and can actually create some space for him. To me, this is a line that Tavares can work with. I don't know how you feel about it. Third line of McKenna's Sisson rules. I love that line. Yeah, I'm okay.

I'm all right with everything. I'm fine with it. Well, didn't see that come. Yeah. Clearly, Tavaris has struggled five on five. And I think to your point, Nick Paul can get a lot of things done at both ends of the ice.

And he's a big guy that can create lanes and hopefully he seems. And it'll be interesting to see, you know, Marchenko and Tavaris. Because at the end of the day, both want to shoot the puck. But. Yeah, it'll be interesting.

I don't know how. It works offensively, but I do. I don't know where that chemistry will lie. playing the right end of the ice. Anyway, why don't we talk or listen to Jim Hiller, who talked about what inspired the tweet to the lineup of a clip one, please. Well, we've been going 11 and 7. Still not exactly sure what it'll look like tonight.

We didn't like our game. Didn't like our game versus Utah. Despite the outcome, I guess you could say we were close, but didn't like the quality of the game. I didn't either. I kind of made that clear yesterday. I think the sense is that they got points, they found a way to hang in there.

They were, they never gave up, all great stuff. But when it was good, it was good. But when it was bad, it was extremely bad. Yeah.

And I think he's now focusing more on the bad than the good. Yeah, I think you go back and watch the video and there's just way too much through the neutral zone, way too much speed for Utah. You know, at the same time, it's a tough spot,

you know, end of a road trip, good team, all that and all the excuses you want to make. But yeah, you still want to get better out of those guys. Yeah. Lines? What do you want to? That comments there, like, they were, I mean, they were pretty good in Utah. I think that.

Yes, they were, Kipper. They were, like, they were. No, he's right. You're wrong. Okay. That's fair. Whatever. I just think he's trying to light a fire a little bit.

Like, it's his first time in the media actually trying to say something that, like, fires the guys up, changing the lines, get him going, for a big homestand. Like, I think it's a little bit performative. Well, we have a bit of a plan. Like, I don't think they were, like, they were way worse against Colorado and Vegas and they were against Utah.

No question. I think it's a cumulative of the three games, of the parts that you didn't like. I just, you know, like going back and looking at the fancy stats of that game, you know, like they were right in. My eye test and the fancy stats in that game really met. They were right in that game for most of it. They're goal.

That's in three. softies. I just think that's a bit of a coach. And I don't mind him saying it. Like, that's fine. He's allowed to say that stuff in the media. Just feels a little bit like, I'm trying to get the guys going before a big homestand here.

That's what it feels like. Next three at home are Buffalo and then the New York Islanders on Saturday night. San Jose Sharks come in on Monday night. So he's got a couple guys who aren't really getting in. Zach McEwen played game one. He sat out six straight, grew, you know, made the team, but hasn't been super relevant. We got clip six here.

Just a little bit about the message to the fourth line. in those scratches. Well, it had been a while for Mac, and you never like to hold out anybody for too long, especially the start of the season. We just want energy. You know, that fourth line should be energy. There should be some physicality to it.

They should grind in the ozone, keep people, you know, out of our end. And, you know, again, whether it's 11 and 7 or the full four lines, who's ever on that line with Teddy and Dewey, that's the job. Do you think they've done enough of that? I thought last game they were better.

Teddy and Dewey, as he calls him. I don't know what, like, is the complete ask, right? I think you just told us. Okay, energy. Energy and a little physicality. Okay. So that means he's not getting it then. If you're asking for it, you're not getting it.

Okay. So. I thought they played the right end last game, right? They had some really good offensive shifts, I felt. When you look at third and fourth lines, they're paying heavily here. heavily for these guys. They're not $8,000,000.

They're not 1.2. They're all like 2.5 to 4.25. Colton Sizzins. And I think collectively, all of them, and I think Nick Paul's in there too, I don't know. What do they have? Two goals?

So they're not getting offense. Apparently they're not creating enough energy and they're not tough enough. Yeah. Blugher and do. Hume are both two and a half. That's a lot. Well, it's not a lot, but when you put them all together, it's a lot.

You know, what's interesting, the Leafs are one of three teams in the NHL so far without a fight, if I'm not mistaken. And Duham tried, you know, the one thing. I think he's been good. He's killed penalties and flown around. And I agree, they're five-on-five shifts left something to be desired for a little bit, but I don't know. Standards are reasonably low.

They were supposed to have a different look and a different feel. And I still yet have, haven't gotten that from the third and fourth line. It would be really nice. Maybe I saw a few more scrums. Yeah. But as far as, you know, the rest of it, I don't know, kind of looks the same for me over the last few years with third and fourth line stuff. I mean, I know it's early still. It's early.

It's early. Way better. Okay. All right. Three and a half to four lines. All right. I'll allow it. There is like some PTSD from last year of them bringing in big guys that aren't that tough

and like aren't necessarily fighting a ton or getting physical or whatever. Like I thought I'd see a little bit more jam from Duhame in terms of running into guys and, you know, potentially fighting or whatever. But like I've liked his pace. I like what Bluger does in the penalty kill. I'm just not quite sure what is it you say you do here. I'm not fully there with them. All the D's own stuff.

They've been killing penalties. They're out there, six on five, five on six, all those. of spots, you know. I don't, I don't. But he's clearly asking for more. Yeah, he is. That's fair. Yep.

He's fair. That's fair. That's fair. So Nealander and Matthews, who played together quite a bit when he was here, when Hiller was here in his first time around, going to actually start a game together with Rossevick who continues to win the lottery. Yeah. Fun.

Yeah, they've been really good. I think Megan Chaka had shared some stats once upon a time there that Matthews to Nealander was one of the most frequent shot connections, like shot assist or whatever. He's been finding him quite a bit. I think it's the right answer to see if these guys can go turbo. They've been together for 10 years now.

And we've never really spoken of them as clearly as a one-two punch. Like, can it develop into a Matthews-Marner situation with Willie and Austin? Because, again, we've never spoken of Willie and Austin as two go-to guys that have to play together. I think pre-hour show, they were a thing. Like, they were together along. He's gone.

He's going. He's the first time. And again, this year, they've looked like it. So, yeah, I definitely think they can. Why don't we listen to Jim Hiller and clip two and what he likes about it? Well, they've been really dangerous. That's really the obvious one.

And I've had a long history with them playing together when I was here during my time. I know they haven't spent that much time together. And we always know we can put them together. We can, you know, sometimes they'll play a part. But I just think they have good chemistry. Clearly, two really good offensive players and both, you know, off to really good starts on top of it. I kind of remember that if they weren't playing together, it was because of deficiencies on a second line.

Yeah. Right? It was less about that they weren't good. It was like, we got to spread it out. You know, we can't have these two guys playing together. Right. We need Willie's skill on the second line. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes it. By the way, while we were just chatting and I was looking up hits to see how the fourth line guys have done. Sizzins leads the team of 21. Duhame 15. Nick Paul is third with 13, which is not a ton of hits. Gru actually leads a team and hits per 60. Okay.

Running into guys. Anyway. Which again, okay. I don't want that from an $850,000 player. I need it from a $2.5 million player. Yeah, leading the team and hits per six. Yeah. Why aren't you running into more people?

You're making more money. I can live with that. The Matthews Neelander thing and all their new skill, not as North-South as Craig Baruby used to kind of want them to play. One of my big complaints forever with Marner here and Matthews and Neelander and Thavaris was that they could only do, like, They had to be, they just, like, oh, the big line change is going to be, we're going to flip them. So now it's going to be Mariner and Tavares and Willie and Matthews,

but they were so hesitant to do it and made Nielander and Tavares play together. And they've played together forever. And it feels like they've never completed a pass to each other. Like they've never had any chemistry. So I think that there's more chemistry between Matthews and Nielander. And I think it's worth a try to put a couple new guys with Tava and he's never played with before. Just a little bit of new energy with those three guys playing together. Can maybe drive a little bit more offense on that lane playing on his right side like this is I mean this is a good on paper move for them to make going into this game. I like it. I do and Marchenko now it's clear

Nobody wants to see Tavares carrying the ice the puck up the ice in the middle that's like March on five on five anyways carry it for I mean power play might be a different spot if he can find a few of a little bit more. room like he did in Utah and his goal like that's okay but like as far as the distributor with Paul and Tavares it has to be Marchenko now. Yeah Marchenko is still finding his way a little bit

you know everyone the overall analysis from a lot of people seems to be like good but he's got better. You know we'll see if that line does it for him we've got Jim Hiller on that clip four on what's next for Marchenko well I mean it's been a lot for him I would say that

he cares deeply about his game, about being a good teammate, and I'm trying not to put too much pressure on him as he's adjusting, but he's putting a lot of pressure on himself because he wants to do so well. So I think he's used to probably being a little bit more dangerous, so maybe that's what the pressure he's putting on himself. We just want him to be a good all-round player. We know his skill. He's going to score.

He's going to create chances. We just want to get him comfortable and feeling like he understands the systems, and then he can just go out and play. I think he's noteworthy that he said all-around player. We want to be a good all-around player. I don't know yet. I don't know. I don't know either.

Yeah. I think he certainly can be, right? He's everything you need him to be, big, fast, toolsy. You know, is that something that maybe they haven't had happened in Columbus? That's something he can round out his game a little bit at 26 years old. I certainly think that's possible. But yeah, there's still, he's still ironing out the Kings. Yeah.

I don't think he's ever going to be Trace Bergeron out there, boys. No. I also don't think he's like a liability or anything. So it's early. Yeah. But I want just your gut feeling here. Is Marchenko got a chance to be a star in this league

or just a very good complimentary player? Hmm. Yeah, I mean, he's talented enough to be a star, but lots of people are. To me, it's a matter of putting all the pieces together as an all-around guy. But like is a star someone who scores 80 points for you? And, you know, the puck's in the offensive. And when he's out there, is that a star?

40 goals and 80 points is you're on the cusp. Yeah, you're on the cusp. We used to, we did this when we were up in the old studio. Like, what, how many stars or superstars? I think star means more than just like your production. Like, I think it's just kind of, you know a star when you see one. I don't think it necessarily comes down to production. You know, very good complimentary players,

and you know which ones are absolutely go-to guys. For sure. And I do think. I think he has that in him. I do too. I just don't think it's going to be every single night. Like, I really do think there'll be times where he'll leave you want more. But I also think there's nights where he's going to look like the best player on planet Earth.

And, you know. We have yet to really see that yet. That he's hit. Yeah. That first game he looked His first game The most Dangerous

He was the best guy out there Yeah He was your best on the ice There's got to be a night Where he's just like He has that night Where it It looks like he did

In that first game But it also comes with 2 and 1 Totally A hat trick Four points Something where he just breaks out

I do believe that's coming I definitely think that's You know You're going to have some of those nights Other teams are sleepy He's too big and fast That tends to have

But like To your star question, like the Leafs have, like, stars. Can you be a, it's such a stupid question, but like, if you have a big time stars above you, superstars even, can you rise to the level of a star? Like Matthews is a superstar. Will he's a superstar. Oh, Willie's a superstar. He's a star.

He's a star on the Leafs. But not a superstar. No, he's a talent of a superstar. Okay. He is. So then if you have two superstars in your team, can you be a star underneath that? You need a third one. And he's paid like it too.

Well, McKenna's going to be a superstar too. So there's your third one. But anyways, it's a very stupid question, but I just... TANF was announced as week to week. Yeah. I don't know what that means necessarily. I don't think anybody does.

I wrote today on the Toronto Star. It's not good. On my ex account, Chris Tanov, they lost their MVP on the blue line. Can't replace it. I just don't. It's really hard to see a world where, okay, in three weeks he comes back and he's great.

We got him back and he plays the other. And you're holding your breath every time he's on the ice. Yeah, like he hasn't played a string of 12 games in, you know, a while now. Everybody's encouraged that whatever he's dealing with today isn't as severe as it was last year. Okay. I like hearing that. So that's the upside. But the downside is that it wasn't anywhere near as vicious of a collision or contact that he had last week.

Right. And therefore, why is this coming back all over again? And unfortunately, for probably TAN of in the Leafs right now, they don't know. But that's what now they need week to week to do. It's actually the worst case scenario for your ability to make plans for your team. They need to figure it out. Why is this recurring? Right.

Like if he's on season ending LTIR, then you go, okay, well, now we got this much extra space. We got to go get some, you know, whatever. Right now there's just a lot of, I guess we're going to do a lot of Blankenberg, Stetcher, Rify. I think his sort of quote unquote toughness and desire to play and just ability to keep lacing them up is almost detrimental to them at this point. Right. If he were more soft, it would be better. That's what I mean.

Like, how many guys have gone what he's gone at his age? I'd be like, you know what, boys? Like, I'm good here. Like, I've had a great career. Like, every time I take a bump, there's a worry if I'm going to be, I just, like, at some point, I don't know even know how to say it. It's just, it sucks, but like he wants to keep coming back. But like, what's, is it?

They gave him a long-term deal two years. years ago, he's home. I think there's a sense out of out of Chris that he wants to do everything he can to try to still make this work. And he should. And I respect the hell out of him for him. But like a lot lesser, like, you know. But he turns people, a lot of other people.

I think this year, right? In a month or two, he turns 37. So this isn't this isn't a guy midway through his career. This is a guy that also has to contemplate and come to the understanding that the body breaks down and it happens to all of us. Yeah.

And there's nothing you can do about it. Now is there anything down the road? Is there a new therapy down the road? Is there a potential surgery out there that could help him moving forward here? But again, you're thinking about, you have to think about this as a 37-year-old who's almost 20 years of doing this. And as Max Domi taught Chris Tanov and every other professional hockey player athlete

on this planet is that if you're going to go and do some sort of surgery, there's always risks involved. Yeah. Well, it is an interesting spot that he's in because there's still this year plus three more on his contract, right? Like it's a big commitment that they made

and knew it was a risk. I think part of the reason given that contract is you think if he can't physically do it, then it just you're not going to be paying it out. Well, you find a way to long-term IR it and at the end of the day, he collects. And I think that's why you gave him the years. Yeah, I think so too. It was built actually for this sort of scenario, but you didn't want it in year two. You wanted this scenario in year four or five.

Yeah. Yeah. In his first year from the Leafs, he was so good. Like, he was, well, and he's going to change his there back. He wasn't, he wasn't even that bad in the first five games. No. You had moments at this year. He's been on the ice for one five on five goal against.

I mean, there were times when he caught a little flat footed and he had a couple. He played last year too. But holy moly, he turned into a very dependable guy already. All the time when he's in front of the net. Yeah, he's dad back there, right? And not having dad is not great. You know, don't want the children to be. It's scary.

I don't know. Now it's just the. McCabe Raddish, Riley Stetcher, Ekben Larson Blankenberg. We had a discussion last week, even before Saturday. It's like, he's getting pounded out there. Yeah, pounded. You were saying it's just taking too much abuse. And eventually, I didn't think it would be like this.

He doesn't have another way to play, right? Sorry. He doesn't have another way to play. Like if you said to him, he comes back and, okay, we don't want you to get hit going back on pucks. He's like, that's the thing I do. That's how I get it out of our end. What are they supposed to do? Yeah, I go get against the wall and I make a play up to a stick.

He'd like to do it a lot quicker. You'd like guys to hold up. Yes, that's the big one. Cut off, cut off, cut off. Like I wrote my article today that if I played with Brian Leach or Zuboff in New York and guys would go in and hammer him, I'd get hairy eyeballed. They're looking at you like, hey. Yeah.

Stop those. You see that? Well, you're supposed to go, like, fight them or a verse. verbally accost them. Whatever it takes, there has to be a level of responsibility on my end that someone doesn't get free shots on my defenseman.

And listen, we've all, over the years, talked about a soft team. And there's ways that you need it to protect him a little bit more than what we've seen out of the last two years. And, you know, he's kind of like the byproduct of a soft team the last two years, in my opinion.

We have Jim Hiller weighing in on the effect of no TANF, clip five. I don't think it affects anything. But what I was disappointed about a little bit on the trip is I thought we hung our defensemen out to dry just a little bit as a group of forwards with some turnovers, with some tracking. Prior to going out, I thought we really were supporting our defense, getting back hard, not giving up odd man rushes, and then, you know, that was a little bit of the opposite on that road trip.

So you've got to help your defense. I don't care who's in. And so that to me is a little bit more on our forwards. I did not hear that comment prior to me saying the same thing. I will say that you haven't listened to a clip since you're one of our shows. I believe you. Right? I mean, but.

We used to sit down and we would grind. There are guys that should feel really bad. about Chris Han of right now and not doing enough to protect that guy. Leaves fans hate to hear this, but I watched that Canadians game last night and there's the pseudo hit, Miroshenichenko on Slavkovsky

and then Slavk gets bumped by Wilson. But Caden Gully and Arbor Jackai are out there and they're going bananas, right? They're trying to track people down and like having a couple guys like that. Not that's happened in Toronto. know there hasn't been any blatant abuses, but it's nice to have that in your pocket.

We've talked about it for years. I don't want them to go get some thug who can't play. Du Hame can be that for them, I think. But yeah, it's a nice element to have. I played with the best I've ever seen at that in my lifetime, and that's Ty Domi. But you can play hockey. I know he could, but I don't care if he could or couldn't.

It was really simple for him. He'd go by the bench and say, you see number 13 over there? He's exempt. Nobody, don't even look at him tonight. Don't even touch him because you got to deal with me. Yeah. And it, it worked.

Yeah. I mean, two words, it worked. Yeah. There was some, and listen, not everybody. I mean, there'd be other tough guys there. But it would shrink the chances of your guy getting run. It caused conflict when he got hit. A lot.

He was like, I told you you can't do that, and now we have a problem. And I don't know, Duham, some of these guys, it's okay. Barbichev. in Vegas took a huge run. I don't know if it was at Morgan or I think it was TANF too. I think he crushed TANF. Yeah, he did. Like, just somebody go and say something or go after some of their best players.

But just don't let it pass you by like it's like it never happened. Can I present the other side of this with Tanev? Like I totally agree that over this air of Leaves hockey, there hasn't been enough response. We talked about it for three weeks last year with Matthews and all this stuff. But I don't necessarily think of what's, I don't know, ailing Tanev as like cheap shots. It's a cumulative over his whole career of blocking shots

and being in front of the net and just having going back on Pucks. And taking big hits. Yeah, but like guys are breaking the glass or like Mike Van Rine and him lute sheets through the glass every time. I see it differently. I do feel like that's been TANA for a couple of years now. Yeah, I don't. Florida had their way with him, bud.

Yeah, in the playoffs. In the playoffs. Sure, great, but no one fights in the second round of the playoffs. Like, everybody gets hit all the time. It's not just the moment of fighting. It's all the accumulation of everything that goes around, Sammy, over the course of periods or weeks or months. Do you want me cue in time?

Can I just, I agree that the Leafs have been not nearly good enough in the physical department for the last decade. I'll give you that. But I'm not going to sit here and be like, Tanev's out because the Leafs are soft. I'm not going to, like, come on. Like that's, that's, that's too much, you can't. That's not the reason that he's been injury prone. He was injury prone before he got here. I never said it's the reason.

Well, you alluded to it. It's a factor. It is. I mean, he's out because he got bumped. Yeah. You know, not. Blocking shots. Anyways.

I don't know why I want to argue about that. I just, I guess, probably the roadway story. Okay. You know who the Leafs should call up at some point if you want energy? We want the same guy. One, two, three. Land and Sim. Yeah.

Sim. Yeah. Okay. Again, I don't know why you need to go spend two and a half million dollars. Just get that guy. Like, I don't know if he's ready. Obviously, somebody hated him a year and a half ago. And now they love him.

And he's an energy guy. He's got character. He'll fight anybody. I'm not sure he'll win. He's 5-11. But he is... 5-10, 166. He's a gamer, man.

I think he's a perfect fourth line type of guy. I couldn't agree more. I think the fourth line should be full. Sam and I today were talking about you need the hungry kids. Actually, we were talking about Sammy Gassira. Yeah. We appreciate it. You need someone who's got a little bit of like,

I got to show me. Not the old dog. I don't know this Sam anymore. I totally agree with you. You need someone who's like, I'm going to earn my spot. And he would, he jolt that team. I thought Pasetta was. I thought Paseta was. No, no, no.

Pesada's gone. Well, I know. I'm aware of that. And he doesn't want to do it. Yeah. Doesn't want to do it. Every night, every game, doesn't want to do it. The Leaves to have over the past 10 years

exclusively retired guys or hired guys to do it who have previously done it, who are done doing it. Give me the guy who hasn't done it yet. Yeah. Team Sim. I mean, he. The thing that are watching preseason, I fell in love, he got hammered by Nick Cousins.

Nick Cousins kind of gave him a shot and went into him like, I'm going to, I'm going to bully you. And Lane and Sam caught him with three rights before he knew it was happening. By the way, Zach McHugh and we'll do it. He'll do it. Put him in. Yeah. We've just decided.

What will happen tonight? Is there anyone tough on Buffalo? They got Malinstein on the fourth line. Well, we ask her next guest, Rob Ray. He'll know who's tough. All right. Rob Ray, help us Tia. up a big division game tonight for the Toronto Maple Leafs against Buffalo MSG.

He covers the Sabres very well. We'll welcome in Rob Ray when we return to Real Kipperman Bourne. The best Blue Jays show out there, period. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back in studio. Nick Kippreau's Justin Bourne, Samuel McKee. Let's welcome in Rob Ray, former Buffalo Saber.

guy that's spent a few minutes in the penalty box. Yeah. Razor, how are you, my friend? I'm doing well, guys. How are you doing? Good. Key Atlantic Division meeting tonight. Yeah.

Buffalo and Toronto, both identical records coming in. Just talk to me a little bit about the Sabres today compared to the momentum and the energy of coming off last season where they had the back half of the season, one that a lot of people remember for a long time. And just where was that momentum in the summer? And they lost a couple of key guys on the blue line up front and tuck. And just where's that momentum starting training camp to even going into tonight's contest?

Well, the big thing is, you know, there's a lot of young guys coming in last year and a lot of highs, you know, a lot of things went really well for them. You know, this year to start the year, they're not coming into the soft target anymore. People are ready for them. They're planning for them. They're making it harder on you. So they've got to figure out a way to work through that.

And, you know, there's a lot of young kids on this team that are experienced like a first full year here. So it's going to take them some time. But they've adjusted well. I think the big thing for us is just a little consistency. We've been a little sloppy at times, you know, goaltending at times. Special teams has been kind of up and down for us. you know, it's not just young guys, it's older guys too. Got to kind of figure out what they're all about

and maybe figure out their identity of what they really are here once again. Took them a little while last year. Once they found it, it was fine. But, you know, just because you have a decent run at the end, the way they did last year, it's tough to pick right up again. So especially with younger guys. Yeah, and you mentioned in there, Rob, the goaltending, you know, and I'm curious to know kind of, you said a little bit rocky at times this year.

What's the state of it? Do they think they've got the guy there? obviously people are, you know, you hear Hala Bucks name, link to Buffalo, are they good enough without him? Yeah, I think, I don't think that is an issue. I think it's, you know, you can always upgrade. Yeah, don't get me wrong. But it's, you know, I think it's more the way the guys are playing

in front of them right now a little bit. You know, we're an offensive-minded team. A lot of young guys like to get up the ice and they kind of forget about, you know, sending home base first and then moving up the ice. So I think that's been a big challenge for him. You know, Dahl's been out the last couple of games here, too. It's a big difference for us. So you've got some guys back there that, you know, they're a little more new.

You own power that has really done a good job. But I just think that the overall team game in front of our goaltenders here really haven't helped them out a ton here yet this year. So you could lean on that more than the goaltending side. These guys, they're good. They can play. It's just when they're getting bombarded and a lot of traffic. And, you know, any goaltender is going to have a hard time.

So, no, I think I would address other areas first if, you know, you're looking for a glaring need. Oukopeka, the traffic just isn't on the ice. It's off the ice, too, with a lot of rumors around Hellebuck, and now he's linked a little bit to the Rangers here. Is there a sense that it's just a lot of noise? There's something there. Would it bother him at all? You think he's asked to deal with that off the ice?

Is it affected him at all? Well, I think any time your name is thrown out as much as his has, I think you think about it. You know, you're in a situation where you had to, you know, say whether you wanted to go or not in the summer. And, you know, with him, yeah, I think he's a guy that needs to just be comfortable and, you know, know, know that I'm going to be the guy and I'm going to be in the net every night and I'm going to play. I think it affects anybody. You know, Colton Ellis has done a great job for us since he's came here. and, you know, Alex Lyons still hurt right now, so not able to come in. But, you know, I think he looks at it in a way that, yeah, does it bother?

It's going to bother anybody. But it's out there. But I think management does a good job of letting him know what's real and what's not real, so he can just kind of play his game. And he's a guy that when he's comfortable, he can really play. And I think they realize that. And I think that's what they're trying to make it for him now, as comfortable as possible. You know, we haven't seen the Sabres yet.

this year and I'm looking at their roster I find they have some really intriguing new names. Olin Zellwiger and Louis Crevier on the back end interest. Me and so does Consta Heleneas who I know has been there in a part of it, but a player who seems like he's primed to do more for them this year.

Yeah, you know, Helen Ouse has done a great job this year. Lindy sat him one game just because he was kind of a little slack defensively there for a couple games in a row. He kind of sat him and sent a message to him, but you know, a young kid you know, it doesn't hurt to sit back once a while and take a look. And since

he's come back in, he's done really well. Owen Zellwiger got a couple goals in in Montreal the other night with Dolls out. He's getting a lot more ice time. And that's what he wanted. He wanted to come here. He wanted to play all the time. He wanted to be able to show off his offensive game and he's been able to do that.

So that's a big thumbs up for that one too. And you know, the Uri Kulik coming back in line up after missing last year. So he's another guy that really hasn't got a full season under his belt. Owen Power has been awesome this year so far, doing his job. Louis Craviewee, big body back there. He's a simple guy. He's not going to do anything flash. He's got a big shot, yeah, but he just does a good job clearing the front of the net,

keeping his game simple. And, you know, he's been very good for us at this point. You're listening to former national hockey league or Rob Ray, who covers the Buffalo Sabres for MSG. I'm watching last night, Washington and Montreal, and I'm watching Alex Tuck, or two goals. And I say to myself, at the time, Buffalo probably thought 10.5 on an AAV was expensive, but now I'm watching players like Marchenko get 12-5 like it's Halloween candy. And Buffalo made a mistake, not paying him $10.5 or $11 million. How much do they miss him?

Well, you miss them. Yeah, no doubt. You miss him. You know, he does a lot of things that, you know, a lot of guys don't bring. You know, I don't know if I've seen anybody strip pucks as well as what he does. His penalty kill was always great. You know, it seemed to always look to turn that offense, you know, when he's killing penalty. So, you know, he really did a good job for us.

And yeah, it's a big hole to fill. But I think you're a little more to it there than, you know, just not wanting to sign. You know, behind the scenes, there's a few things, too, that came into the equation of him deciding to leave as well. So I don't think you can just, you know, push it at the sabres themselves and say, hey, you know, we didn't want you or, you know, we weren't going to pay that. There was some other determining factors. You can mention at all, like off ice? I'm not.

That's not my spot to make me. All right. All right. Can't blame me for asking. Do your homework, guys. Do your homework. Come on down the buff and ask some questions, you know. Brazier, one of the things we talked about before you came on was the Leafs.

And in recent years, they haven't protected their D particularly well. guys go back on pucks and they get smoked and there's been some wear and tear they lost muslin over the years tanev over the years and kipper's telling us stories about tie domi and how he used to go down benches and say basically don't hit this guy and you know that's something that leaves haven't done i'm i'm talking to the go ahead kit and razor did that for yeah fontaine and all the rest of them too you know now that tie and players like that are gone who who's going to go down a bench now and say don't hit one of my players are you going to pay a price that's what i'm asking Is it exist?

There's nobody that does that. I stand between the benches every home game. And I don't hear anybody even talk about anybody's mom, grandmom, girlfriend, wife, something like that. It's like, you're overpaid. And I'm like, man, that really got you. Yeah, you're overpaid is an unbelievable trip to receive. And they enjoy every little bit of it.

So there's no talk like that. There's no intimidation in the game. If you were a guy out there and understood that game now, you could intimidate three quarters of, the NHL. If you're out there and get back it up and do your thing, man. It's crazy how calm and mild it is. They're all buddies. Everybody's buddies now. Nobody wants to say the wrong thing to anybody. And if they do, if somebody hears it, you know, they're reporting it and then they're in trouble. So it's not worth it. But man, it could be such a tool if somebody ever decided to do it.

College guys calling the player hotline because they get their feelings hurt. You know, you know, the, we were wondering about if that role you still need to be able to play today we're trying to figure out if there would be value in having you know Zach McEwen is on the roster for the Leafs so would it be worthwhile having him in you know Buffalo has Zach Malinstein as I may not have that or Beck Malmstein

Mount Stein you know he's big can you talk to some of these guys? And the other player you messed up is constant Helenus Hellenius, okay? I got to get back on the Sabres train here. Sorry, Ray. Okay. But, you know, can you give these guys a push?

I do wonder if it's something that you can learn or if it's something you just have to inherently have. Yeah, you got to have it because we've had guys here since I've been done and that play that role. And I've actually taken them aside and said, do you know how much that intimidation could play a factor? And whether even if you're sitting on the bench for 55 minutes of the game, every time somebody comes by just yapping and talking and sand and, you know, they'll be looking over their shoulders. everything and they go, when was this guy if he gets on the ice? But they don't understand. I had one of them look at me and he was about 6'6. And I'm not saying his name.

He looks at him. He goes, why would I do that? I'm like, because you don't play. You're huge. You kick the crap out of whoever you're out there. And maybe just send a little message or get them thinking about something different. And he couldn't understand why I'd even considered coming to him and mentioning that to him. Too funny.

Yeah, certainly has changed over the years. just in terms of the city and the momentum coming off of a heck of a playoff run and winning the division. And then, you know, you lose Bob Byron. We mentioned Tuck. They haven't been replaced yet. Outside of, you know, a hell of buck rumors, there have to be a feel that that's going to happen eventually here, right? Well, I'm not, we couldn't say 100% on that, but I know Yarmel just getting to know him here in the last year or so he's a pretty aggressive guy and he's the boss and he's the guy

if you don't you're not doing what he's expecting you do then there's no hesitation in his game to to make changes so I would expect here like most people they're sitting here and they're seeing the first 10 or 15 games to see what they really got and then figure it out from there I think in his case the guys that left he figures younger guys can start filling that role and and and hopefully continue to progress and get better. And if it doesn't happen, then things have to happen. So there's a lot of pressure on them now. They did well.

Now everybody's expectations are through the roof down there. So if it doesn't happen here, then, yeah, obviously things will have to have to be juggling around. Is there maybe a last one for me here? We just get your thoughts because you watch all these teams so close on the rest of the Atlantic division. Has anyone got better, worse? How do you see teams stacking up?

because it looks awfully tight from where I said. You could only probably look in Atlantic. Detroit is the only team that might have got worse. I think everybody else got better. You know, from just maybe experience through a bunch of y'all and, you know, young kids getting better that, you know, continue to rise. There's, you know, Boston, I thought at the beginning of the year,

it'd be like, oh, these guys are going to be nothing. We're playing well, you know, in Toronto here. This is a team that can do it. So there's, that's a tough spot. We played forward to the other day. We beat them, but that's a pretty deep team. You know, they're coming up in other games, so it was like, you know, you're not getting their best,

but still a good team, Tampa. I don't think there's anybody other than Detroit on our side right now that, you know, has real issues. Well, it's early in the season, but it's a key matchup tonight between Buffalo and Toronto. Have a great call, Razor. Thanks for doing this. Yeah, I've never really had a bad one, so...

I believe it. Seriously. Anybody can do this guy. There you go. This is the easiest thing in the world. Okay, pal. Free food, free travel, everything. You're living a life. Take us along for the ride.

It's better than being a player. You don't have to be in shape. You don't have in meetings. You have nothing. Dream gig. Too late for me. You earned it. You earned it.

Too late for me. Yeah. All right, boys. Have a good night. You too. Rob Ray. Thanks so much. See you.

Did you watch Alex talk last day? I did. I did watch. Yeah. Oh, my. A couple great goals. The way the dollars have changed in the league makes that look so much worse. That they didn't sign it.

Yeah. Yes. That one they regret. But it doesn't seem like they entirely made the choice. That they weren't willing to do it. I mean, I don't know. We'll get Elliot on it. Yeah.

But I don't get that because there was a sense that if they came up with the right dollar amount, it was going to get done. So I don't know what it ended up being for what, you know, Ray's talking about off ice. Was there no dollar amount? What did he get? 10 and a half, right? 10 and a half.

But in today's world where salaries are going and what he can offer still for the next three, four, five years. I'm sure his playoff performance played into it, boys, in terms of wanted to pay. Oh, yeah, didn't he put up bagels? Yeah, he was a stink bomb in the playoffs. zero is dash nine or something. That didn't help.

He's only 30. I know. He's a talented kid. He's a talented kid. He's coming up 36 years. He sat on the show for five, six years and talked about how playoff performances and how bad. Yeah. I wonder if the Leafs would have tried.

Oh, yeah. He would have fit right in with the playoff performances. So what would have been nice was to get tuck at 11 or 12? and then use Nyes to get a defenseman. Yeah, I agree with that. Yep. Captain Hindsight, that is great. You know, I think it also, for him,

would have been a pretty big slap in the face to Buffalo, where he's from, to go to the 28th place team in the league, who's the direct rival of your team. I don't know if that, the players care like that. Come on. You know, I think if the dollars are similar,

you don't want to slap you hold your head. You sure about that? Lilliv's probably. would have needed to go to 12-5. Yeah. Two things quickly. 13. Rob Ray earned the, you say how he earned it.

His first two years, three years in the NHL, in 27 games, 89, 90, 99 penalty minutes, 27 games. In the next two years, in 66 games, 350 penalty minutes, and the next year, 354. I'd say he earned it. And also, Tuck, scored a couple, Dolbish. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

He's. Yeah, we're going to get into that in the national hour. What's going on with the Montreal Canadians. But it's so funny to listen to Rob Ray talk about the way that him and Ty used to do it. Yeah. And for me to be on the ice and watch some of my teammates, like, fear. What about you? Fear.

What did it do for you? Did you fight him? I fought Rob Ray. Oh, my God. Really? Yeah. I fought him in the American Hockey League, too. That's like saying I climbed Everest.

Oh, like, that's a bear. Yeah, I'm like Len and Sim there. Like, no business fighting some of these guys, but I'll do it anyways back then. Oh. And it caught up to me too. Scary. Scary. Buddy, talk about earning it.

You earned it? You earned it? You're in here with us. Oh, yeah. You made it. What a slap in the face. Sorry, pal. All right.

Just like that. One hour down, when to go. We go national next. Sammy, who we got? Renaud LaVois. Renaud, we're talking Montreal. What's going on? Dobish, Sammy.

Larkin? We want Larkin. Plenty more. Don't go away. It's a real Kippon-Born show.