Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Making a Change in the Crease

Episode Date: January 2, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee are back from their holiday break, and discuss Ilya Samsonov getting waived over the past few days. Is it a good thing for Samsonov to be sent down, what would success look like for the beleaguered goaltender in the AHL, and what would it take for the Leafs to call him back up? Plus, they get to the corresponding move that saw the team call up Dennis Hildeby from the Marlies and chat about what it would take for him to see a start on the road trip out west. Afterwards, they get to the latest on William Nylander's contract negotiations. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

just like that our 10 days are over boys nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee andrew dutch holland and jen rolnick here for the next two hours welcome in to our first 2024 Leaf Edition Hour. Let's talk about, by the way, shocked there's no Brandeo here. Derek has four children. I would be crawling out of my home to get to work no matter the circumstances after 10 days off. He texted me this morning. I believe it's one of his kids' 13th birthday today. Haley's 13th birthday.

Well, happy birthday. So he's 13th birthday. Well, happy birthday. Good father. Yeah, after 10 days off. I feel like I gotta go. My gift is see you later. Wherever you're watching or following, Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6, we're glad

you are along for the ride, and we are glad to be back on air. Good 10 days yeah nobody got hurt everybody's happy really good we uh pinnacle for us we went to long island and uh skated the clark gillies arena in dix hills and all eight of his grandkids got out there and wore sweaters the uh the boys had a little shinny game. Our wives took pictures. Are you still really good at hockey? What's that?

Are you still really good at hockey? No. That has diminished significantly. Did you get some ice time in? Me? No. No. I did not skate.

Went to the attack game. Oh, okay. I went on sound. Yeah. Went on local access television with my boy Mark McKelvey. Did you? I did.

Nice. I did. Did a little interview in the intermission. Yeah. Broadcasting Chop Sharp. I did. That was my working over there. Nice. I did five minutes with Mark McKelvey. Nice. And what about you? What did you get up I did a little interview in the intermission, yeah. Broadcasting Chop Sharp. I did. That was my working over the five minutes with Mark. Nice.

And what about you? What did you get up to? A little Prince Edward County. My sister's got a house on the water. Got all the families together. Nice. A lot of mayhem. And once you're there, you don't have to go anywhere.

You're just there. Yeah, it was really nice. That's awesome. Really nice. Can't believe we're back, quite honestly. Like, I'm sitting here. I've been ready to, though. Like, the Leafs have been doing stuff.

Yeah, I guess. We also had an interesting show during the break. We sure did. We, Justin and I, along with David Amber and Elliot Friedman, did the Columbus Leaf regional game, which turned into quite the event. And the domino effect of that game has led us to probably our number one story. And for many Leaf fans, the number one story is Ilya Samsonov.

Yeah. Waved by the Toronto Maple Leafs over the break and is now, I guess, down with the Marlies. But is he, down with the Marlies. But is he really down with the Marlies? Sammy, what do we know about that? Well, we might as well just let the kippers clip. I'm not going to throw to the first one of 2024 here. But the first clip from Brad Treliving, who spoke.

So I think that tells you a lot of what they think of this situation. Yeah. That the general manager held an impromptu press conference. Yeah. And he spoke about it. He gave an update about what's going on with him. So if we want to play the first True Living clip there, Dutchie. Of 2024. Here we go.

Obviously, we know Ilya's gone through a difficult time. And so when you go through this, you kind of look at a couple of options, right? You either keep doing what you're doing, which is an option, and try to work through it, or you do something different. And, you know, this plan that we, you know, we looked at it, and I just felt strongly that we had to do something different to help Ilya. So the plan was to obviously, in order to execute this and create the roster spot, we needed to put him on waivers. But we're going to take this week to try to use as a reset. So Ilya's not – he's been assigned to the Marlies. He's not practicing at this stage,

and is not planning to play with the Marlies at this stage. But we're using this week to get him some one-on-one time. And he'll be working with Hanu Toivonen back in Toronto, our development team, our performance team off the ice. And really, it's a physical and a mental reset. Nothing says physical and mental reset like a development team of people staring at you going get better fix it so no more here it is no no real yeah i don't know how i feel about that and it could be fine like i'm just guessing it could be exactly what he needs or

it may not be enough i do think it's good he These not playing games. I think if you put them in games, you run the risk of him being Jack Campbell. You know, it's the American league. There's different quality shooters. You go in and there's, you know, five go in one night and you look bad and it just gets worse.

You know, like you can't, I don't, I don't buy that. Why not? I don't buy that because you are in a defensive mode here. You're in a, you're in a, what can go wrong mode.

I sure am. Well, what's giving you the feeling that it's going to go the other way? Correct. So you bring him back up and it continues to be bad. If he's going to continue to stink, I want it in the Marlies. I don't want it back with Toronto and the Maple Leafs. I think though, you know, he makes $3.3 million for the Toronto Maple Leafs right now.

And I imagine whatever deal they cook up to replace him this year, which it now feels like is going to happen at some point, they're going to want him to go the other way. And I don't think it helps if he plays six games for the Marlies with an eight 38 save percentage. What happens if he plays six games for the Marlies and he goes five and one and it's nine 20. Yeah,

no, I mean, maybe he goes from the, the compensation you have to send with them is less, I guess. I, I get your point that right now no one thinks too highly of him but at least you haven't made him an ahl goalie if if um

you know he's had time off already he's had one-on-one time already lots the only difference is, is now he's doing it at the Marley Arena and he's been waived. Yeah. So other than that, what has really changed from day one? Yeah, it's legitimately no different, right? Like they share the Ford Performance Center. It's a different pad of ice that maybe he's on, but his salary is the same.

The people are the same. It could work. It could work. Sure it could. It could be, you know. And the randomness could play in their favor too. Kelly Rudy went on Hockey Night in Canada this past Saturday and suggested that he goes away for a week to Florida.

And my first thought watching that was, I stunk when I played. I was a healthy scratch. Where was my trip to Disneyland? I know. Where was the team to tell me that, you know, go down and lie on the beach for a while, get away from it all and come back. You'll be better.

In defense of Kelly, that might be a more different thing than what he's about to do now. I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you. Like, why don't you take him down to Florida and rent a sheet of ice? We're at the tin cup part of this where you put the tees in your left pocket

when you got the shanks. We're just going, I don't know. What if he hangs upside down and eats brownies? You know, like they're out of ideas here. They can't use him, guys. He has been so bad for them this season. On a one-year deal, he has no value. As an asset, I'm saying, and you don't trust.

Even if he comes back and plays good, are you going to put him in the playoffs? It's been too much bad. Okay, let's go to Tree Living on Samsonov's timeline because, again, this plays a key part on what what changes let's have a listen well the week is really because we're gone right so so once we once we get back in we're you know we monitor daily see where he's at but this isn't something where you're saying okay you know we'll scramble together on wednesday and say how did everything go today this allows him to breathe

a little bit for the week um you know get, get him out of the environment that he was in, where sometimes you're just going around on the Ferris wheel here and just let him refocus, reset, and then when we get back, we'll see where we're at. So this has everything to do with the belief that he's a very good goalie. It's just all in his head right now. I don't know if they believe it, but what choice do they have? That's 100%.

They just clear his head, get away from it. So it's the pressure of just being day-to-day around the team. This alleviates the pressure so you can clear your mind and then just come back and be the goalie that you were before. I think if they believed he was a very good goalie, they would have given him more than one year and gone to arbitration with him and all that. I think the suggestion that what you're talking about is like,

if he is a good goalie, that that could help, right? That's one of the things that if he is in fact a good goalie, this could help him. You know, do they believe that I'm skeptical? I mean, that arbitration they went through,

you know, where they basically, you know, you're not kind to people and you're skeptical of them. Like some of that has to be real. I think this just confirmed. I've been through an arbitration. They tell you why they don't want to pay you.

Right. And okay. Because of the skepticism. Hundreds of guys have gone through it. I'm just saying that they went through that because they clearly didn't fully believe in this guy. And it feels to me like they must not believe at all anymore. And what else do you do while you try to figure out plan B?

You got to buy time here. And now we get the Hilda Beast. So let me ask you this, though. Even if he comes back up, you guys have both played high-level hockey, NHL, how many good starts in a row? Or what's the point of them trusting him again? Because every single guy in that team,

it's the number one thing they talk about guaranteed oh yeah like they're getting him away from this environment is probably the whole team is not a huge fan of what's going on with him and them losing these games because of him and him having the worst is it the worst qualified say percentage in the league or second worst i think it is yeah like how good does he have to be to win back your team's trust i don't know if there's enough time i agree i totally agree it's january the march trade deadline is two months away that's eight weeks maybe it's nine weeks whatever it is you know well you're right so if he plays he's gone for a week and then he comes up and split starts with someone. He's only going to get 10 starts or something

in the best case scenario. I just, they're finding a solution. And I don't know that they intend for Hildeby to be a solution, but what else are they going to do right now? What can you see in drills that will make you feel a lot better that he will start his next start will be with the toronto maple leafs what do you like how good of a practice player do you need to be

you've got you've got goaltenders uh uh goalie coaches shooting pucks at you, stationary, or you have some movement, and I guarantee you, whoever is that coach isn't Mitch Marner or Kucherev or some of the best players on the planet recreating those types of scenarios. What drills do you think that you can come up with that will replicate anything against the best players in the world do you think it makes me a good or a bad radio host that you so quickly convinced me that you're right there's nothing you would have to play i was gonna be like, you have to play the game, Nick. Yeah. And that's not even against the best players with the Marlies. No.

Like, I just, I need him to play against real competition and create real game situations. There's just not a practice world in my world that exists that can tell you that was all in his head because the the samsonov that we've watched to get to this point isn't between the ears buddy you don't track the puck you don't see the puck too You slide too far. You overcommit. Okay? You're not seeing the puck right now. It's almost trying too hard, you know, watching the games.

You know, I guess their case would be like, you know, have you ever looked at a problem for three hours and you can't figure it out and you step away and you come back and you're like, oh, okay. Like, I got it. Like, I guess the idea is if he's playing, does that really allows him to step away the mental freshness at least at least with bright tree living i hear is like we're just gonna go day to day here i hope that he practices so well that they would feel comfortable to say give him one game with the marlies before uh we bring him and back you look at the leaf schedule here

it looks like this is a move to buy themselves a little time because they play the Kings tonight, obviously a really good team. You have Martin Jones. Jones is getting it regardless. And we can listen to Keith talking about tomorrow night's plan with the Ducks. But then you have a few days off. You got the Sharks. You come home again. You got the Sharks. It's like

Ducks, Sharks, Sharks. You're looking at 30, 32, 32. This to me is Emily like, we're sending it. He's going home. We're out here. We'll figure this out when we get home. Yeah. Like, it's like when you're leaving in a rush and you leave the dishes on. You're like, ah, I'll do that when I get home.

That's future me's problem. I'll get that one done when I get there. He's the dishes right now. And make no mistake, I'm not writing off Samsonov. I'm not. As a career. Yes. Or as a goalie to come back with the leafs and okay i am and i am are you yeah and this is where i go yeah jb you're probably right yeah but i i just don't want to do that just yet and i think i think first week in January is enough time for the Leafs to say,

let's find a different approach to get this guy's game going again. I think there is enough time. Yeah. Yeah. But you're probably right. You know, like they just had to stretch a hockey where they were pretty good. You know, in some of the games, they went like one four and one in their last six or something.

His save percentage was like 8-50. Like, he buried them. That Columbus game was atrocious. How many games are we into the season? 34 for the Leafs? At least. 34-3. Okay, that's lots of time here.

No, I know there's lots of time, but the trade deadline is the real deadline, not game 82. Yeah, no, I hear you. But between now and, what, March? Second week of March? Third week of march of a trade deadline like you don't have to make a major decision on your goaltending hillaby was always about just buying you a week let's uh we have tree living on looking for outside help okay let's start there good segue. Jonas, we always look at everything, right? So this has created a situation where we think we've got a good goalie. He's shown he's been a good goalie.

How do we help him get back to that form? In the meantime, the manager always has to do his job of continuing to look at ways to improve the team, right? Now, having said that, I checked outside. The goaltender tree was empty. I couldn't pick one off there today. So we'll see with a little bit of sun, maybe they grow a few more. But we know we've got guys who have shown to be good goaltenders in this league.

We're working with Ilya to get him back to that form. You know, Joe's had a great start to the season. We're working with him to get him healthy, and Martin's had a good career. So our depth's being tested in that position. We're going to work and try to make the guys we've got as good as they can be, and we always look to see if there's areas that can help us outside. All right.

Kept it a little light for you there, Sammy. Sam hated that joke. Oh, my God. Carlin over here. Trees appointment at Yuck Yucks. All right. So there's no one. Goaltender tree.

Terrible joke. Well, listen. The media down there loved it. It'll remain okay if Martin Jones has a good game tonight. And these guys can buy tree time. But it'll remain okay if Martin Jones has a good game tonight. These guys can buy tree time. Yeah, I mean, but I think at some point you love Martin Jones, and I think what he's given the Leafs here has been incredibly important.

Just a steadying veteran. But, like, we've seen his numbers for the last five years. I think we kind of know where this is headed. I don't think your plan should be we'll ride martin jones for a long time here like you have some solid some soft competition coming up like i mentioned but this is within the next couple weeks here you got to figure this out i do agree though that uh like first of all there's there's nowhere to go outside there's just there's no one right now that you could look at and definitively say that that's worth changing the makeup of my goaltending depth tomorrow i want kevin lankanen that's my guy i decided that that's the guy i want yeah you know you're just taking where is he uh nashville where is it yeah you're just taking shots on guys, right? And I don't know, he's 28 years old.

He's had some success in the league. He's been a backup. He's a 900 right now, but he's a 916 last year for Nashville. He had a couple years at 909. And he's at a million? He's cheap. Let's see if I can find it. He makes two.

Too expensive. Well, unless you get... No, too expensive. Yeah, but they could retain on that. He's not... Oh, gosh. Now you've got to give up an asset. No, they expensive. Yeah, but they could retain on that. He's not. Oh, gosh. Now you've got to give up an asset. No, they're not going to do that.

And then if you do do it, that means that you've written off Samsonoff. Yeah. And they're not ready to do that. And I'm not convinced that that guy would be any better than Samsonoff. No, I'm not either, by the way. But to me, it's just if you're going to pick a lottery ticket ticket he's a good one yeah you're you're making a change for the sake of making a change yes for sure so they bring in dennis hill to be the the hill the beast who can't be any worse no no can't be i mean at the end of the day i'm sorry but that's you know and

i know elliot talked about you know protecting his future and all of that but come on you're not going to ruin the guy even if he gets lit up you're not ruining the guy thank you i i keep hearing this what that's just such a funny the state of 2024 toronto maple east goaltending it can't be any worse and you know i i hear this all the time we're like and when I was with the Marley's, they didn't want to yo-yo guys. They were like, we'll call him up when he's ready to be up. And that's fine for a player. Like I know some people didn't love Nick Robertson up, down, up, down,

whatever, but it's not, that's not how it always works. The circumstances don't let you just cook something in the oven until it's ready. Then it's, you know, mealtime and everyone. It's just some, sometimes in hockey, you got to be ready a little bit before you thought you were. You might have to go back down,

whatever. My example here is Eric Shalgrin. You know, Shalgrin was here for the Leafs. Not a great NHL goaltender. He came up and over two years he played,

he started 22 games. They lost six of them in regulation. He was like a 900 or 898 save percentage in the NHL. You know, since then, he's an 850 in the AHL. Not a very good goalie at that level. He's fine, whatever. But they, again, they didn't get killed when he was up.

Hildeby can come up. I know. And they can win with this guy, Annette. He's a pro goalie. When you, when, what I've been able to kind of know from my experience of playing over a hundred games in the American hockey league to the NHL and then watching it as a broadcaster is like the difference. Margins are tight.

They're tight with goalies and they're all good at the American Hockey League. They're good goaltenders. Especially when you're huge. They're the best of what's outside of the NHL. It's not like they're just cut off at 62 goalies and the 63rd stinks. What is the difference between them playing in the American Hockey League

and the NHL? It's just a level of consistency. No different than your 100th ranked golfer to your top 15. 100th ranked golfer can shoot 65 some days. Can't do it as often. And that's all you're looking at. Go shoot 73.

You asked us. And we've seen some of the goalies over the past from the Leafs come up and have success. You mentioned one earlier. Yeah, Sjogren. Sjogren. Yeah. Right? I don't know where he, where is he?

New Jersey? He's in Utica. Utica with an 8.53 save percentage. In the American League. So he's no good down there. Is that what you're telling me? Yes. And he was fine for the Leafs.

And he was fine. He came up with some decent efforts. Hildeby's been 9-19 in the AHL. He's not going to be a joke. And he's not going to get lit up like a Christmas tree where you go, this is embarrassing. No, he's not going to embarrass himself. No, he's not.

And were it to happen, he wouldn't die. They wouldn't embarrass him like that. No, you're saying if it was going wrong, they'd pull him out. Well, yeah, and the team's still too good. Yeah, they're going to protect him as best they can. To really embarrass him or the whole organization. And for the record, Samsonov was well protected against Columbus. The Leafs gave up four or five shots in the first period.

They gave up 22 over the whole game, maybe. Something like that. They protected the hell out of him and it wasn't enough so you know he'll be fine for a couple nights do you want to hear the plan for the goaltending this week yeah from uh the head coach now from the general manager to the to the head coach uh keith clip two plan is to just take each day as it comes here and try to get them up to speed at the NHL level. Obviously, NHL shooters and such, it's a different animal,

as he may have learned when Austin came down and blew one by him there in one of the first drills. But, yeah, I think just he wanted to get comfortable, which is what I saw as the more and more the skate went on. You could really see that he was getting comfortable in his reads. Obviously, the size, a lot of pucks just hit him because of the size. But the plan is just to get him comfortable here. My message to him is he's here. He's the second guy right now.

Like you would have the message for any guy that's the second guy, your job is to be ready for any opportunity that might come up or any time we may need you. As we look at our week, and in particular this back-to-back that's coming, we haven't ruled out utilizing Jones in both those games. I think as far as... So, thoughts. Toronto plays L.A. tonight.

We'll be on the panel tonight with Elliott Friedman and David Amber. Tonight at 10.30. You going to be up? But I didn't make it to midnight on New Year's Eve. We're going to be up until 1 o'clock doing this. Yes, we are. We are. I'm doing Leafs talk with Ailish tonight, too.

We're going to be a sleepy crew tomorrow. Tomorrow night... I'll be up with my kids at 6. Should be fun. Tomorrow night, Toronto faces Anaheim. Saturday night, they face San Jose. Is there a world you

see where Hildeby does not get one start in the next three? I'll start with you, JB. There's a world where I could see it where they just really decide that this guy's not ready, which to me would be a bit of an indictment. If you don't feel like you can put him in against the san jose sharks on a back-to-back or sorry the anaheim ducks on a back-to-back i mean good lord get him in there i think if he's

gonna start it'll be the back-to-back because they're not gonna put they're gonna put jones in where he played right he played for the sharks forever yeah he'll he'll probably play there but they did this last year remember with samson off they played him back to back when keith petrozzelli was the backup no i don't think that's interesting like they had they had petrozzelli and everyone's like oh you got to start petrozzelli in the second half of the back-to-back and they went with samson off and both so they are familiar with doing this i can't remember what part of the season that was last year but they had some real goalie stuff i i bet you it's i bet you that they do Jones in both.

Jones is 33, though. Like, Sammy was 25. Yeah. I see Hildeby all night long tomorrow night in Anaheim. Okay. What are they, 13 and 23, one of the worst teams, one of the worst records? They stink.

It's a perfect scenario. It would help a lot if it was coming off a pretty convincing win against L.A. tonight, and that could help them make the decision a lot easier if they knew that the team was kind of back on board. They shut down key guys tonight, and the team's feeling good going into Anaheim. If you want to see how much time that you really have for Samsonov,

it would really help if you knew what you had with Hildeby. A little bit with a sample, a small sample size tomorrow night. Yeah, but like there's just no world where this is a year where Hildeby is a meaningful contributor come playoffs. Like people being like like I just want a steady backup let's see if this guy can do it that's not this yeah he's not going to be great for him to get some games and see what he can do and maybe bide them some time but you know does this team have cup aspirations I would say yes they would want to be yes Joseph Wohl and Hildeby

is your duo I would say no no no no no no. No, that's not what the tomorrow night's all about. Exactly my point. Tomorrow night's about... Get us through, see what we got. Samsonov has a mediocre week in your eyes. Maybe it's just a little bit longer. Yeah, you know what? To your point about getting him back in and whatever,

there's a much bigger chance that Samsonov is on this team in two months than Hildeby is still in the net in terms of playing towards playoffs. Yeah, and I think because Hildeby is like a prospect and this team doesn't have a ton of prospects, people are really excited about him. And like, oh, this could be the future. This is more of an emergency call-up than anything.

You think of this more as like a Petruzzelli-type call-up where they just need a body on the bench. Yep. And you look at the goaltenders, like when their prime is, I would argue, is different than skaters. And I would say it's a little bit older. You know, like, I don't know how well it's Connor Hellebuck now pushing 30. Like some of the best guys in the league are that age figuring out the position. So this kid can be okay for five years and still be a prospect.

I got a question for you just about that Keefe years and still be a prospect i got a question for you just about that keith clip we listened to i just got a dm about it i'm interested in your take about him mentioning that matthews went bar down on him in his in practice well it's been mentioned a couple places i've seen it you think that's weird that he would say that it must have been like a ripper or something he'll be commented on it in his interview too it It was just like, as you saw in like the first drill, like, you know, it takes a little, the shooters are different. I would have gone a different approach to be honest with you. Really?

I think it's an honor though, right? I just, I wouldn't have made it. A talking point. I don't think you necessarily need to say that. Let everybody else discuss it. I don't want to bring that energy in that you're not used to these type of shots. The one thing I did say or did read about it. It's fine. It's a throwaway comment.

It's not a big deal. He sounds like a guy who's pretty whatever. He sounds a bit like Joe Wohl. He doesn't get too phased by things. You need guys like that. The Toronto market requires a slightly different temperament and stuff like that. Just can't bother you. Maybe this is the start of learning that. He's literally the best shooter on earth yeah there's not many guys i guess badard shoots

it like matthews a bit like who shoots it like matthews no one yeah guys like pass to hit one time yeah let's get uh sheldon keith we haven't played this one have we clip clip six on martin jones because this to me is a huge start for Martin Jones and can really dictate the temperature that the goaltending scenario will hit. But if he stinks... Save that comment. Let's listen to Sheldon on

clip six on Martin Jones. Yeah, obviously huge to have him here and how he's played for us. You know, you you look at it and I think coming into today's practice, we basically had probably certainly goalie three in Marty Jones and probably goalie five in Hildeby, who was, you know, when we come into training camp, you know, he had Petrozzelli, he was getting a little more time than Hildeby,

and he's going to take the year to be a developmental year for him. And now you've got those two guys here and you're counting on them. But to have someone with Jones' experience in the league to just be calm and confident has really helped our team. Yeah, going into familiar buildings as you as you mentioned i hadn't thought of that uh a great deal but i think that's again just the the value of having the experience boys fifth goaltender got called up in the depth chart i heard a coach protecting himself there like fifth yeah yeah the next guy's the e-bug where's airs yet call up airs i honestly heard a coach

being like you can't put me on the hook for this we're at three and five here this is like martin jones cannot have a bad game here tonight wow but he could oh he could but he can't get your point yes can't yeah because you know this town been been around in a minute now yeah i i disagree with that i think he's got a little bit of runway here people understand what this is people are gonna be like oh martin jones he stunk like it's like yeah you kind of expect it he was their third guy he was playing for the marlies for a quarter of the season the conclusion that you know you're talking about that he stunk it's the where do they go from here that follows it's for sure that but i don't think people are gonna kill jones well it's no do you know what i mean

it's not about jones it's about the leafs yes and and where are they if this guy gets lit up and all that you know i would say a week or two ago the leafs were four points behind boston and it was kind of like okay this is like they could you know contend say a week or two ago the leafs were four points behind boston and it was kind of like okay this is like they could you know contend for that they're nine back now happen fast just a blink they're nine back and florida's pulling away florida's now five ahead a couple games there but you know tampa's tied in points all of a sudden is my point it's like okay jones if he's not very good we can't keep giving away points. No.

Like these are, it's crucial to keep picking up points along the way and they're starting to scuffle. And all of a sudden. How quick do you have to do something if that happens? And you're still four or five weeks away from Joseph Wall coming back. And however long Samsonov's recovery takes. Now. How quick do you have to act? however long Samsonov's recovery takes. Now, you know, if Martin Jones doesn't, he's the key in all of this in terms of truly buying you time.

But if he doesn't, then you got to go to the tree, the goalie tree. Oh, God. Just pick up an unripe bud of a goalie and throw him in there. Maybe sorrows could grow on that tree. But it does change then what you do with your assets. Yeah. And how you spend and try to improve. If you want to get to the trade deadline to... Without having to spend on a goalie.

Even if Joseph Wall comes back in four weeks and he's still looking great. Can't depend on it. Are you trusting Joseph Wall now to be the guy? I trust him technically more than I do health-wise. Yeah, well, I was actually going to make that very point. It's not that I don't think he can play. It's that I don't know if he can be available. And at the end of the day, they're kind of equal, right?

Because whether or not he's no good or he's good if he gets hurt if you're worrying about him getting hurt as much as you are potentially him not playing well then at the end of the day you don't have him either way isn't it stunning how many teams are having this conversation though like we during our last show we had one of the burning questions was what team do you think most needs a goalie and it was like buffalo new jersey uh carolina the choices were like around the league it was i mean a lot of teams are struggling to find one guy right now which you would think would help coach checkoff look pretty good on saturday night for the for carolina but and they're nervous with him.

Oh, for sure. They're such a good team. Carolina is an excellent hockey team. Yeah, and I think they're second last in team save percentage this year, and it's killed them. They're starting to get good goaltending, and they're starting to win.

It's just, you know, quickly before we go to break. Break? We're humming along. I'm just so sick of at least wasting these points against bad teams because it's the difference. Think about they lose 9-3 before the break. They lose 9-3 to Buffalo.

They lose to Ottawa. They lose to Columbus. And I guess a lot of that has to do with goaltending, I guess. Yeah. But it's like this just how many years has this been this? It's every year of the Matthews era. It's the same. Well, not every year, but the last four years for sure.

Them wasting points against these bad teams. And it costs them. And that's why they have to play these juggernauts in the first round. The Leafs against the bottom seven teams in the NHL. And this is part of our broadcast that we did the other night. Are three, six and two. If I'm not mistaken, below a 400 winning percentage infuriating trend which is 30th in the league the you know around chicago ottawa san jose or the teams around them

there if you just take care of the business a little bit it's it's infuriating and now you're gonna have to play the florida panthers in the first round or the you know if you have to fall down to a wild card and you play the Rangers, you're like, ugh. It's not great. Win the division for once. Boys, that's 35 minutes just talking about the goalies. Nine other topics to get to. 35 minutes.

Going to break. There's lots to say. Can we please discuss facing the Kings tonight outside of the net after the break? They scratched David Kemp. And then gave up two shorties the net after the break. They scratched David Kemp and then gave up two shorties the same night and lost. There's the next 35 minutes gone now. All right. That and more. We promise on the Real Kipper

and Bourne Show. The Kipper hosts Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Hope everybody had a happy new year. Indeed. Yeah. Yeah, you know what I did? Nothing. I was talking to the listeners and viewers, not you guys.

I did nothing for the first time in a long time. It was excellent. Cooked a ribeye in bed by 1230. Yeah, we made a three-layer dip and watched a whole show. Are you one of those New Year's Eve for amateurs? Well, as a former drinker, that was certainly a stance of mine, and now it's for people younger than me. I'm just an old.

Yeah. Felt it this year. Before we get into the Leafs versus the Kings, there's lots of talk about William Nylander. What kind of talk? Well, just trending closer to the Leafs and Willie getting a deal done is what I hear. Really? Yeah.

You know, I've heard similar. And the general feeling amongst, I think, both sides is they'd like to get it done before the NHL All-Star weekend. So that is February 3rd. That is one month from now. The other belief is that it will be a number that is over 11. That's good. 11.25 is the one that is probably mentioned the most.

Times eight. Yeah. You okay? If I may, this gentleman that we are discussing right now is fifth in he's fifth in the nhl in scoring tied with connor mcdavid i mean david pasternak is two points more than him right now it's it's tough to so that would put him right with pasternak correct yeah what's past 11 to 5 i think exactly i don't know can you i can make that yeah happen the only one. The question I have for you, Kipper. The only one is Panarin, I think, at 11.6 on an AAV. Yeah.

Would you say that he took a discount like he did with Pasternak? No. Pasta is 11.25. 11.25. Yeah. I think there's an argument to be made that that's the number, and either you like it or you don't. You know, at some point when you have negotiations about value,

you can't argue with the numbers. Like, he produces at the same rate as some of the best players in the league. The other thing you've got to consider, Sammy, is that when the Leafs can front load this and turn it into a $12 or $13 million upfront signing bonus, it's worth more, a heck of a lot more than $11.25. It creates greater value in real money for sure it does but it also helps the leaf down the road if you don't like the back end of the deal the real money owed is so much less absolutely and in four or five years if the caps up towards

100 north of 100 million dollars 11 to5 for a 40-goal score, a 100-point guy, is not crazy here. And I do think the way that Willie skates and shoots the puck, that he's got a lot of good years left. I don't think, you know, another five years as a top contributor. I don't think a lot of people can make

an argument that this is crazy. No. I guess the only thing you would do is you would hold up other players who have signed, you know, in the, is it, which Carolina guy? Is it Ajo or one of them signed for nine and a half, I think. You know, there's some guys. Which is such a good deal. The nine and a half in Florida who, you know, he was a heart trophy guy.

And Ajo is so good. Yeah. And so this is what you do as the team. You say, what about these guys? And they say, what about those guys? They've tried that. Yeah. They've tried that.

And the team goes, what about these guys? And they say, okay, we'll just leave them. Bye-bye. Okay, we'll just wait. We'll just wait and see if I get more than 9.5. And they go, oh, yeah, you definitely will. He really wants to stay. Loves Toronto.

And if you also value that, you know, even Pasternak had, I'm sorry, Panarin had to leave Columbus to get 11.6, but that was over seven years. Willie would get the eighth year at over $11 million. I mean, how do you say no to over $90 million? Yeah. And, you know, another one in Willie's corner is that he's a pretty unflappable guy. You know, he knows this market well. This market has done all they could to beat him down trade him trade him

trade him and he's just like i'm just gonna keep shooting in the net i think call me when you want to pay me i would be really scared of that number that you brought up if last year didn't happen in playoffs no just in general because he was 40 goals last year and like that's the type of year that you would expect him to have in a contract like i don't think he's this what he's right like i really do think that the contract year is a bit of a thing like pace for 117 points and his highest was 87 before that which it's a massive number but even if he regresses a little bit with the cap going up he's probably going to be worth that like it's visually and it's going to look scary yeah do you have to can you do all these can you do tavara's next year as well can you have all these guys making that much money for one year is it doable

reminds me of minnesota's like a cap situation where it's like you're really handcuffed but then it'll be good after that except they have really no it's going to be hard that's much different it's going to be hard because you got to to also factor in that you have all these expiring contracts which help, but you have to replace them. And the question is, can you, you know, Max Domi, I know the goals haven't been there, but he's played very well lately, and he is on pace for what, 50 points? He is now, in terms of their leading scorers, there's the big four guys, Morgan Riley.

The fifth forward is Max. 21 points last I checked, which was this morning. Okay, so if Max ends up with 50 points, that could be worth more than $3 million somewhere else, and maybe he takes less to stay, but you're still going to have to replace those dollars. Bertuzzi. Well, this Bertuzzi thing's becoming an issue, Kip.

$5.5 million. I know I went on air and talked about how, yeah, his underlying numbers are really good. He just, he doesn't have any points, Kip. He's played with the best players in the league for most of the season, and he's got 14 the best players in the league for most of the season and i was you know 14 points six goals and 14 points in 34 games for five and a half million that's great he's driving play but at some point you'd like him to tip on the net or run someone

over drive the puck into the net yeah potentially you know it's really strange that when you consider that you're playing with proven point producers. Bunting, 56 points in that spot. Yeah. Okay, give me somebody else, though. What's that? Over the last three years. I mean, that's played in that spot. It's been a revolving door.

I know, but B played in that spot. It's been a revolving door. I know, but... Zach Hyman was... Bunting's the only one. Well, Hyman made a... He did pretty well. They weren't thrilled with Bunting. You know, people got to realize that one of the major reasons why is that, you know, I don't think Matthews was thrilled

with playing with Hyman back then. Is that right? I don't know. What's your point, though? My point is that no one seems to be able to produce points. Mm-hmm. And other than bunting. Yeah.

Really? I just, Kip, you look at the people who have been in that spot. Tyler Bertuzzi is the first one who didn't work bunting way above his career numbers in that spot like way above right for what he'd ever done as a 26 or 27 year old who else went there cal yarn crock went there and shot in the net more than he used to uh who else played that spot marlo uh uh richie Marlowe, Richie. Richie's in Finland and suspended. Hilton and Marlowe are retired. Not an NHLer. They haven't had guys there in that spot.

Malkin. Oh, my God. It's been. That video of Richie, that was. What's he doing? He went a little squirrely. Think about Marner and Nylander averaging 95, 105 points without a left winger. Can you imagine now if you took Marchand away from Pasternak?

And I know they've been off and on. But over the course of all these years, can you imagine if those guys had a real producing left winger, what those numbers could have been like the last few years? Yeah. You know, I was trying to think of lines like that. Like, so Crosby had Kunitz. Was Kunitz a guy like that?

Oh, yeah. He made Kunitz. You know, plugged him in and he just worked for whatever reason. He worked really well with Sid for a while. Yeah. Now, Gensel and him are just, like, on fire. Right, but these are duos. Like, the only real, like, it's tough to have a three-person line.

Obviously, when Bergeron was there with Marchand and Pasternak, that's, like... The perfection line. It's just, it's really strange to me that Bertuzzi, with his eyes closed, can't get 55 points. Could not agree more. Just strange. Stand around the net, tip some in.

No, but he's tried that. He's tried that. And it's just, he has been around the net. So what is the issue, do you think? I don't know. I feel like you're not telling me what you really think. No, no, no. Trust me, if I had an answer, I don't know.

It just seems like he seems to be around the net. I don't know whether or not it's enough or it's too much or they need them making more plays outside of that six foot radius in front of the net i think if if we didn't know bunting handled the puck sorry to interrupt you no no bunting handled the puck a lot more outside of that area. I can't remember him having it. When does he ever have the puck? He never has it. He makes little touch plays here and there, but he never has it.

He doesn't carry it. No. I think if you could go back to my dad's era where you didn't know what people made and you just looked at the players on the roster, Bertuzzi long ago in this group, you would have said, take some run on the roster for tuesday long ago in this group you would have said take some run on the third line like we're gonna play max on the left wing he seems to be able to handle it and make some plays with these guys like it feels to me like he's where he is because they've paid him and they want to give him the chance to make them look right about him yeah i think that's

fair and it hasn't looked right. I would like to see Max in the top six a little bit. I'm ready. Once in a while. I have greatly warmed to Domi. Not all the time, but a few shifts here and there. There's times when he turns the puck over. For sure.

But he's got the skill to play with those guys. His mind is thinking about making these plays that other players won't make. Yeah. And he's got to find that fine balance of of holding on to the puck or putting it in a safe position other than a high risk position and you hope that you know that's the next focus in the next 40 plus games well the way i think of him now is that he's a guy that when you're coaching you play situationally like if you're up i'd rather see more david camp and we can get to that you're up, I'd rather see more David Kampf,

and we can get to that in a minute, but I'd rather see more Kampf who played 3C for them quite a bit. Okay, we're running out of time here. You okay with David Kampf being benched? Was it his wife who sent out the consecutive game streak of five years? Did we even know about that? Yeah. By the way, you're not Patrick Marleau.

At 323 games or whatever the thing was. It's the NHL. Yeah. We expect you to play. That's great. But I do think it was stupid to bench him. You do? Yeah.

I mean, he's your best penalty killer. Yeah, well. And you don't have anyone else that kills penalties, and you gave up two power play goals to a really good power play. You can't bench David Camp. Who can you bench? They're the best power play in the league for a month, Carolina. And you're taking out your best penalty killer going in.

That's a stupid decision. This is hypocritical. No, it's not. It's not. Because all the time we talk about holding people accountable. This team doesn't do it enough. David Camp turned one over. Oh, my.

Bench someone else. Is he even good? Okay. It's a big message for me. To me, he's probably. He's one of the core-ish... Core-ish bottom six guy. He's got a full deal.

What a compliment. Outside of benching Tavares, Marner, Nylander, and Matthews, that's a pretty big message. Yeah, it is a big message. Are we not okay with a big message being sent? Not the night before you're playing the hottest power play in the league and he's your only good penalty killer. The problem is it's not situational.

It's when you deserve it and you're not making the right decisions. And that's why everyone in my mentions says, what about Mitch Marner? When's he going to be held accountable for turnovers? Tavares turns the puck over just as much as anybody. Yeah. Right? Would you ever bench your captain?

Probably not. Who can we bench? Not many after the big core four. I mean, this has been a complaint. Ah, we ran out of time. This has been a complaint about Kiefer this whole year from you guys. All of a sudden, everyone's... We're just warming up in the year 2024.

The national show's up next on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Don't go away.