Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Matthews and Berube Speak on Their Futures

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

With the Toronto Maple Leafs' 2025-26 season now complete, Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee react to what we heard from Craig Berube and Auston Matthews from Locker Room Cleanout Day. They discuss Berube's declaration that he expects to be back next season, Auston Matthews' non-committal answer about his future in Toronto, and whether that should prompt an offseason rebuild. Then, they catch up on the latest in the Leafs' GM search, with names like Chris Pronger, Matthews' agent Judd Moldaver and more popping up. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Come on in. You're a little wet out there maybe. See how much rain's coming down right now, Sammy? Is this good for the golf courses? I didn't even. Yeah, it's raining out there. I do mornings as a dad. Do not send my kids equipped.

My son's walking home in that right now. Good luck, son. Welcome to the program. He's the meme of walking uphill both ways and pouring rain. Good luck, son. Oh, I left an oiler shirt. I left an oiler shirt. Crap!

It's the real Kipper and Bourne show. Sammy leaves an Edmonton oil jersey up in our Leaf edition hour of our program. We're alive on SportsSet 360, soon to be SportsNet 590, the fan, as they will join us in progress, where the Toronto Blue Jays just lost. Sammy, what is going on there? Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. But you can always streamline us on Sportsnet Plus, also available Spotify, Apple Podcasts. And YouTube, before we get into cleanup for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Oh, God.

Sammy, what is going on with the Js? Um, I don't know. I, it's is the fifth straight straight series they've lost. Um, it's a real slog right now, boys. And it feels like the season's teetering a little bit. I know it's early, but they're just, they can't hit. They have, they have no real hitters in their lineup. They're just, they're, they're meek.

They're feeble, boys. What is going on? I, with my, my buddy, locomotive there. Locomotive Okamoto My take on it And it may be a little early Probably should have figured out If you can hit a major league fastball

Before giving him 60 million But outside of that I don't know I don't know How you feel him? Before he went on You're like I'm pissed So let me have it

It's very frustrating I mean Injuries are a big part of this Like huge You need Kirk's bat Springer gets on base for you Who's the other injury They have?

Barger's not there You know like you just got no bats No bats Three ground outs And the ninth is Laddian And you know Vladdy, like, I think maybe the lights are a little too dim for him right now. Like, it's just, he's not.

I like them chirping at, uh, but he needs to be better. I mean, the guy's making the most money in the history of Toronto. Like, you need him to not hit into a double play on the first pitch when you have the two good. We got a lot of losses. 11 losses. Blair and Barker break it out here, boys, but I'm sour. I hate watching it. It's a slog.

It's a slog. Is that why you disappeared because we had a monitor here watching the game? Is that why you left with a man on third? and transparency here. I canceled a teetan tomorrow at 7 a.m. Okay, who was the Jay's then? I was on the phone. I was trying to decide between getting acupuncture on my ankle and playing golf and I chose

the self-care on my ankle. Okay, boys. One heck of a disappointing season came to an end last night, a game that you covered on Sportsnet, J.B. Yeah. I was watching the Jays game.

It's fine. I tried to come over for a couple of minutes, but it's like the eclipse. You don't want to watch too long or else you're going to burn a retina. It was, you know, it was on Ottawa Senator's show. And in fairness,

they're in playoffs, they deserve it. We did a lot of playoff stuff for the Sends. And what else are you going to say? Yeah, I will say it was particularly infuriating because I watched a whole thing. The Leafs talk out after,

wow, whole thing's strong. But flicking back and forth between Jays and Leaves, but trying to focus on the lease. Okay, we're going to get to a ton. What's wrong? Are we on the radio? What's wrong?

Oh, he wasn't done talking. Oh, I just, I thought you off. Sorry. Sorry. I don't even remember what I was going to say. I thought we had like the prime minister joining us there for a second or something. I had a brain cramp. I rudely interrupted you.

I'm so sorry. Finish your thought. No idea. Or did I scare the crop out of your thought? No, actually, I know what I was going to say. Right. To the bitter end, we had to sweat out, really double shifting at the end of that game. Yeah, they still wanted to win last night.

They call up their goalies at the best numbers all year. They call him up and start him inexplicably. He makes, what, 40 saves, unbelievably good in the game. We had to sweat it to the last. It was two one to five minutes left, goalie out. I was like, here we go. Anyways, all right. Okay, cleanup day.

We got a ton of quotes. We're going to get into Austin Matthews. We'll get into Craig Brew. we're going to get into a ton here. But just to put a bow on last night, you guys pushed hard for this top five. It happened. Is the sense now that that is,

as you finished your last leaf talk of the season? Oh, thank God. Yes, we did. With JD. J.D. Bunk bed showed up last night. Once again, I had to sort out my sock drawer.

I didn't catch it. But was this, the feeling and the, sense that it this was all worthwhile the last three weeks sammy because they're they're in they got a pick and hopefully the the balls bounce i don't know how do you two feel about it but i wouldn't say it's a good feeling i think you would be more willing to say it's a good feeling if the organization had some sort of commitment seemingly a smart plan to find a way into the bottom as opposed to your coach, like,

saying that we have to win every game and playing the stuff. Like, I don't think they necessarily deserve it, if I'm being totally honest with you. Like, I don't think they win about it the way that a lot of smart teams would, but they're there now. And it's, you know, it was 16, was it 16% when you finish 6%

for a top 5 pick versus 42.8 for a top when you finish. It's a huge difference. Is there a chance that Craig Bruby just said all the right things about not quitting? And yet it was, that up this way? I think the... Would that have mattered to you?

He's calling timeouts late in games. He's pulling the goalie. Yeah, Willie doesn't play 21 minutes last night if that's the case. I mean... Okay, I'm just throwing something out there. I'll say I'm more mad about it than they are one point out of a place that could have ensured them some safety if a lottery ball doesn't go their way. One point.

Okay. That... Had you tried, had you found a way to not beat Minnesota? Minnesota in a back-to-back, you know, some of the ways they got points at the end. It was like if you made, if this was a thoughtful plan, you probably insure yourself. Like, they're going to end up six. No, they're fifth. Oh, but they're going to end up six.

It's 24%, 26%. Fifth. Right? Yeah. That it moves to six? Yeah. And 8% second. 40% first.

What is it, Sammy? It is. 44 and, sorry, 42 in 58 out. All you need to know is it's either, like there's a higher percentage of, sixth and seventh. There's a higher... Anyways, it's 52 and 48 and 42. Those are the two numbers you need to know.

Either they get it or they don't. It's 42% they get it, 58% they don't. And it could have been much different with one last point. Let me just run a quick, a quick one here, boys, with the tank on. Toronto Maple Leafs keep the fifth overall pick. All right.

You take that. You take that. Okay. All right. So, give him a day off. Coming off last night's lost to Ottawa. bring them in, rip the band-aid off, get it over with. You guys were good today on that?

Yeah, what do you think? Well, we're going to find out. Yeah. Because there's a lot of stuff that I haven't heard yet. I didn't listen. What's that? You didn't go, you didn't take time of your data. I'm a spontaneous guy.

I want to hear it now on the show. Yeah. No, it, I just feel like because they're not sure who the manager is, frankly, they aren't sure who the coach is. I don't think there's any point in dragging this out. let's just, as you mentioned, ripped the Band-Aid off. So let's start ripping.

Okay, let's start with the head coach with the Toronto Maple Leafs, Craig Barubi, where he met the media today, Sammy, and left many with the impression that, hey, still coming to work, still the head coach, and I anticipate that I will be in the future.

I would say his overall demeanor would be the best way I could put it would be short. Very short, not rough. Do you like rough? Yeah, like, I know he's been short all year in the last two years, but one word answers to something. For example, let's play clip two to just kind of get a feel for the presser.

Biggest difference from last year to this year. Clip two, please. Craig, what's the biggest reason the team went from where they were last season to where they ended up this season? Goals against. That was the whole answer. Goals against. Next question.

Can we get into the process? of how you ended up giving up more goals again. Here's one, he was asked basically, is there anything that you could have changed this year to kind of make it a different result? Clip one, please. You know, I don't know. We, I think throughout the season,

as a coach and staff, in an organization, we tried to do things a little different, try to help the team to get to another level. So we tried things. They worked for a bit. Yeah, that's a tough question. and I don't really think of anything right now. Is there anything you would do differently than last year?

I can't think anything. What did you... You sure about that? What did you expect people to ask? Yeah, coming into today? I know you played last night. You're on a flight. You're getting up first thing in the morning.

You're coming to... But shouldn't you have some sort of idea if someone asked you? I think that's kind of how I feel about some of the Matthews stuff, which we'll get to too, is that, like, Some of these questions were pretty predictable, right? And they had to be asked. I don't like hearing a head coach go. I can't think of anything right now.

Because it is a media day. It is, you know, it's not, you know, it's coming. And if you're okay with that, you're okay with that. But like. Like how about break the pocket a little bit better? Again, I wrote an article today in the Toronto Star. and it really centered around the lack of communication this year and how it really affected the fan base more so than even in other years.

And I think that's the frustrating part for Lee fans. Say what you will. Another disappointing season, okay, they get that. They've been disappointed before. They've dealt with losses before. but it's just the lack of communication this year that's been so consistent and it's left the Lee fans unsatisfied.

Yeah. And I was actually... Disregarded. And I'm sorry, but that answer from Craig Bruby, I can't think of anything right now, isn't really fair to someone trying to support your team. We got a lot out of that today. Of guys, just like, let's just get out of this presser

without saying anything. I mean, that's, to you that point. Yeah. Scheduling it the next morning. So you would have like to have more time? Well, like, just make me, give me the illusion that you're putting some time and thought into this. That you're like, hey, maybe we're going to look,

maybe I shouldn't even say this because I hate it, but look yourself in the mirror. Maybe you're going to be like, hey, we'll take some time to think about what you potentially could say to us as opposed to getting off a flight, go into there and be like, Got through that. Now it's time to go do something else.

But I have talked to you guys in the past in terms of how, like, an organization should work from your head coach, your players, your PR department, and prepping for something like that, and being a little clear on your message before, and having purpose when there's a microphone in front of you. Matthews came in with that today.

He clearly had. Okay. some coaching. All right. Yeah. I mean. He came into the prepared statement. You guys want to get into it?

It's better than I can't think of anything right now. Yeah. Right. Okay. How about this one? No, no. Let's stay on Craig Bruby. I don't want to bounce back and forth.

Okay. Well, I was just going to say one of the other clips. Okay. Is there something else you wanted to say before we get to another clip? No. No, no. Let's move on. Let's move on.

You're my clip guy today. Let's go to clip three, Derek. They will expect to be back next to your, Craig. Yes. So that was one that everybody was John. jumping on. Okay. You expect to be back next year. All right. And I didn't go.

Did you go? The press conference? Yeah. No. Did anybody go? I mean, was there a sense that, hey, thank you very much after he said yes. Was there any sense of a follow-up question that stayed into that? Someone followed up and said basically like, have you, it was longer, deeper into the press conference,

but like, have you talked to anybody about your job to further up on that? I haven't talked to anybody about it, blah, blah, blah. And that's it? That was the only follow-up to yes. Yeah. And I think... See, I don't get that. I don't understand that.

What would you have followed up with? Have you spoken to Keith Pelly about your future? Have you... What makes you say yes? What makes you so confident that you are coming back next year as a head coach? Did you get... I want to make sure that that wasn't asked. Okay, yeah, and that's why I'm asking here.

I'm not insinuating anything, but that's, those are the follow-up. Did you get a stamp of approval from ownership or Keith Pelley? Are you confident? Did you, are they backing you? I think if you're Craig Barubi and you have two more years under contract and no one has contacted you with anything, then yes, I do expect to be back. Until told otherwise, yes, I expect to be back. I mean, I think you're right that maybe he got let off the hook by leaving it there,

if that's in fact where it was left. But do you all? I would like to hear him answer that. Do you all think that he will be back? No, so this is, I think, a very important piece of everything for all these questions, is that I think it relates to Matthews' answers, not having certainty on that. And for Barubi, no, I don't think he'll be back, is my honest opinion. And so I don't blame him for saying that yes, he expects to,

but I do think that a lot hinges on the answer to that question, how people feel, you know, because things didn't go great this year. Do you think that him and tree living are still in touch, or do you think they ended in bad term? I had heard there's some friction there. Yeah. You know, I just feel like there's been kind of more friction in more places than,

And I want to reiterate too. I've been on teams that have missed the playoffs, okay? It's not uncommon for people to end a disappointing season and question decisions and question the people around you. So it's not, it wouldn't be overly surprising to hear that it didn't end on great terms. And so for me, I think that relates to the players. buy-in. You know, every good team you guys talk about buy-in.

Florida Panthers, you know, they suddenly figured out they all bought in. That was a big phrase, right? And, you know, we had a couple of guys kind of Nick Robertson brought it up last night post game where he said, you know, they didn't think that they were fully bought in at times. Easton Cowan, and he didn't say it directly.

Okay, just play a Cowan quick. Yeah, obviously it's not fun. You want to be playing hockey at the end of the year here. You know, when the weather gets nicer, so it sucks. But we did it to ourselves, so we got to have a good summer here. Everyone come to training camp, ready to buy-in and have a better, you know, year, obviously. But I think just taking it day by day will be a huge piece for us next year.

And so I think buy-in to me, when guys don't think that's multiple young players who said they didn't feel like there was buy-in or they need to come back next year and buy-in, that to me is a bye-bye. That's a, that looks bad for Burrub. And so he was asked about that, clip four from Craig Barubi, on the lack of buy-in. Well, a system is a system. And, you know, we, and again, we did modify it this year at times. And, you know, it ended up being the same result. So it's not like we're not trying to work and help the players and try to get them to a different level.

So, I mean, systems are systems. and, you know, you have to be executed to be successful. I don't know, Kip, that to me is trouble. I think this is where I am on Craig Brewby, okay? That I think if there was friction between Tree Living and Craig, it probably stemmed from the roster, that I can lead them to water, but I can't make him drink.

And I think that if some still believe that Craig Barubi's a good coach, and ultimately that may fall right now on Keith Pelly, then the chance that him staying could just be around. Okay, let's move off of Yarncroft. Let's move off of this guy. Let's move off of that guy. Let's get here and here and here. And then I've got a better chance for players to buy into my system.

I think if we really went and listened in on some conversations down at MLSC, it would be revolved around. I never got the right guys. Okay. Here's what I think, though. It doesn't come down to Keith Pelley in this case, but to Austin Matthews. Because if Austin Matthews says, I don't want to play for him, I think he has the hammer, right? He's the dude.

And they wouldn't want to risk losing him. and I think that conversation is going to matter. I'm not dismissing it. And they're not saying I like that. Yeah. Whether we like it or not, or, you know, where we're at with that,

but it's farther down the road. I'm not worrying about Austin right now. I have no general manager. So for me now to be Keith Pelly in that situation with no general manager and print him and anyone else around him in that organization, which I'm still maybe not sure of,

how do I really judge and assess this until I get a general manager in here? And I think they may be caught right now on what to do with Greg Barubi. And if they truly believe that if we get him better players who can play that more, that style more, for him, then we have a better chance of success. And again, I know yesterday I've used the kind of comparison to the blue jays and the

Leafs. And I will throw this one at you. That it wasn't too long ago when a lot of people were looking at Shapiro and Ross and going, oh, my God, get them out of here. Get them out of here. They don't know what they're doing. Get them out of there. Probably an exact calendar year to this day.

Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. And it really stemmed off of, if I'm not mistaken, the decision on Burrios, the pitcher. No. Pulling him early. Oh, that was. Oh, the playoffs year before.

Okay, whatever. I'm just using some examples where we, you questioned the guys. And here you are a year later and you're within one inch of. being World Series champions, and everybody finishes the season. And Shapiro is a genius, and so is Ross. And they are the best right now. I think, yeah. And I think maybe someone maybe in this organization can maybe look at Craig Bruby

and go, are we looking at it the same way a year or on those guys. I mean, we talked about this. I don't know, maybe a month ago, we had this comparison where I was terrified of them potentially looking at the 2025 or four thing to 2025.

I'm sorry, there's just no way. Like, I can't believe. Did you want, you thought Chaparro should have been fired in Ross? I can't remember what my tags were. Probably. I mean, I'm a fan. I know a lot of people did.

They stunk and they hadn't won a playoff series in the entire time that they had been here. This is just apples and zebras to me. Yeah, like I just, I think there's a part that... So what you're saying is you think he's coming back? No, I'm not saying I think he's coming back. I'm just saying that it's a possibility, right?

Yeah, I think you got it to... I don't have it at a... Some mental gymnastics to make this comparison work. I don't think it's 100% that he's done and he's gone. Yeah, that's fine if you don't think he's 100% because we don't know who the GM is yet. We haven't talked to the captain yet who's a... Yeah, I understand.

So it's not 100%. But you got to really twist that up. in your mind to be like those two are the same thing. For one, you have a guy behind the bench versus people who are making decisions from up above. The money is very different, I would imagine. Like, Bruby here is...

They owe him a lot of money. Yeah, I know. More than they owed Ross. Oh, I see in terms of actually letting him go. I'm thinking about Matthews, like the money that you lose if you lose him. To me, this is a team that wants a different coach. I don't know if you've been watching them, but they lost seven in a row since the Olympic

break. They've been the worst team in hockey. me if there's a chance that he could stay. I got the sense today, especially with his answer, there's a chance that he's going to stay. Yeah. That's it. And I'm not saying that I agree or disagree. I'm just telling you,

watching from a big picture, watching the Blue Jay side of it, and two guys that were in charge, that everybody was screaming to get out, managed to hang in there, and then they come within a whisker of winning the World Series. This just screams like a financial decision if they keep them. Sorry.

Nope. Carry on. It's just, it's, there's no justification. Kipper, they're the deadest of dead last in every coachable category. They were awful. They quit. They're 515 and 0 or 515 and 5 since the All Star, or the Olympic break.

I can't argue any of that. Worst team in the league. There is zero justification to bring them back. I have, I cannot argue with any of that. Yeah. I'm just painting scenarios where I think. Okay, if they're worried about losing fans. If they're worried about, sign in Ottawa.

Fire Barubi was on the class. It was a nine-year-old or like a little kid, by the way, that had it, which I really respect his fandom to be that dialed in that early. And I don't want to be seen as piling on Barubi, the man, or judging his coaching career. Here, at the end of this year, it's too bad to continue. I just, I don't understand why he would say yes so definitively. What do you want him to say?

I want him to say that I'm on contract for two years, two more years. I want another crack at this. I would love to come back and turn this thing around. But that decision that you're asking me is in the hands of other people. Yeah, that's the answer. Yeah. I wouldn't want him to say if. And then peel off his mask and reveal John Cooper, the eloquent lawyer.

If he didn't know, that's more, like, again, communication. Yeah. Right? Communication. Yeah. It's like, just be a little bit more transparent. No one's asking you to give up huge secrets. But like just give the fan more of an indication of transparency,

not the yes and then it becomes no within three days or a week or two weeks from now. Yeah. We should get, we have lots of clips. I want to make sure we can. I mean, do you want any more of Brubé or? I think we've said our good piece. I'm good. We may go back because he's got stuff on the Olympic record and the culture.

And can you win with Austin Willie? If any of that is must hear before we turn the page? I think there's been a lot of talk about the culture and the quote-unquote culture and whatever that means. You got to ask, but you play that one. Clip seven. I think our culture is good in here. I don't have a problem with the culture.

I have a problem with how we performed on the ice. But I don't believe, you know, I come in here daily and I see guys doing what they're supposed to be doing and working hard in practice. and, you know, the room is really good. The guys are good with each other. The culture's good around here. I mean, did they translate to the ice?

No, it didn't. Is that the biggest question if you used to why that didn't? Yeah, and that's stuff we've got to go over. Like, you know, I'm not going to sit here and talk about every little thing today about the on-ice performance and individuals' performance on the ice. But those are things we've got to look at and assess and going forward here and what we're going to do. There's a Troy Stetcher quote. Do you have that?

Troy Stetcher. I'm just going to read it. He says about the culture. There's something the organization will dissect him on the players and the staff, however they go about it. But we're definitely aware as players, what went wrong within the room. We'll just probably keep that private for the organization.

I mean, stop. I just hate everybody saying, like Willie said, I don't know how long ago, I'll keep that to myself. It's in the room. Why even mention the thing in the first place? because all you do is create more drama around it. Good point. Like, if you want to keep things in the room so hard,

then keep it in the damn room. Stop saying these little things. There's just no way that there's just no way that there isn't a culture issue with those comments. Right. And so it's like... And however you define culture. Right.

So we've got culture issues. We've got, I think let's turn the page to Matthews, but I think you guys know my take on some. of these thoughts. So do you care about his formal opening statement where he said it starts with me like I'm responsible? Yeah, those are kind of tag lines. It's fine. I mean, let's play it. All right. Let's lead. Let's lead with it. Yeah, I mean, I can't predict the future. Oh, no, sorry. Clip one. Please. Matthews. Clip one. Opening statement. Yeah, just before we get going, you know, obviously, you know, this was a tough year. It was a frustrating year.

We didn't meet the goals or the expectations that we set out at the start. And ultimately, that's on me. That's on us as players. We're the ones that have to go out there and compete and play the game. And we didn't do that well enough this year, consistently enough this year, to put ourselves in a better spot. We love our fans and we appreciate our fans. I think we understand their first. I think we wear that alongside them.

I think everybody here wants to win, wants to do their part to help the team win. You know, I love being the captain of this team. I think it's an incredible honor to wake up every day and wear this jersey. And I think, you know, that's not lost on me, even, you know, despite the circumstances and the way that this season won.

Unless there's a little bit less. Yeah, better prepared. Better prepared, coach. whatever the case is. Where has that been for nine years? Yeah, I don't know. But that's what you want to hear, some accountability, talk about the fans.

He doesn't peel much that guy. He doesn't peel much of himself over 10 years, you know? That right there, if he had had gone out after game sevens or whatever the hell they lost, most usually games seven. Actually, exclusively game seven.

and just said that a couple times early, the perception of this whole thing would have been different. So that's good, Sam. Like it's a good, you're right, this is a good lead, but then the questions that people are bringing up more, you know, I don't know if we want to just, let's do it. Okay, let's just do it.

The awesome, Matthews, clip two is ask about the future. Yeah, I mean, I can't predict the future. Obviously, there's steps that kind of have to, you know, take place, they're going to hire new leadership at management and stuff like that. So, you know, I don't really know. I think that's kind of, like I said, I can't really predict the future. And clip three. Yeah, I think all that stuff.

I mean, there's always noise and there's always chatter. You know, I think personally, you know, I really don't pay attention to all that. You know, I just focus on myself, focus on this team and, you know, trying to be a part of the solution. Kip? I don't think there's any surprise there or I did not expect him to come out and definitively say I love here, I want to end my career here.

Because like Morgan Riley did, he said I love being here and I want to be a part of it. Yeah, I mean, we can discuss that. But he's never been that guy, Austin. And all you need to know is he signed a five-year deal when he could have signed an eight, like all the rest of the superstores. stars, he left himself a window and probably a very happy guy with everything that's going on

right now. I think he's very justified, at least from his own perspective, to say, I didn't sign eight, I signed five because I wanted to reassess the situation. And if I didn't like the situation, I can leave. and all he did was reiterate that today. Yeah. I purposely signed a five-year deal because is it still going to go in the direction that I'm hoping? Am I going to get a chance to win a Stanley Cup here?

He said, I can't predict the future. And some things need to take place. Well, of course we know what those things are now, right? Who's the general manager? maybe who's the coach. I think that's a big part of it. Who am I playing with? How many wingers did I have this year?

You lost me a hundred point winger that I had chemistry with. You never replaced him. Who's coming in and replacing him? So that's, you know, those are all fair questions. We're on the same page that like, I think a lot of people,

other fan bases, heard those Matthews comments and they go, oh, he didn't make a commitment to it, whatever. I'm with you 100%. Even in McDavid. Yeah. The whole summer. Right.

In fact, was super cryptic about it the entire time and made everybody panic about it until he signed a few your contract. This to me is what, it's like I compared it to the Quinn Hughes situation in Vancouver where last year he went into it and said, yeah, I would like to be here if we're. Yeah, but that was BS. We know that. What do you mean we know that? We would, I mean.

He was never staying. He was never staying. Well, then let's not talk about Quinn Hughes. But in my understanding that if they were good, he was staying, that's what he told. Yeah, that was, that was a fib. Okay. Well, then in this case, I believe that if the Leafs are good and if they can show that they're in the right direction, that he would want to be here.

If you can say, okay, I'm playing for a new coach. We're going to do, I like the GM hire. We've made some player personnel moves. I kind of see it as they have him till Christmas. And if they're bad at Christmas, I think it's over. I think a lot of people, like you said, out of market fans or Toronto fans that think he's gone. Like, that's just confirmation bias where if you hear that, You're like, yeah, he's gone.

Right. It's like, it's just, it's, you hear what you want. You hear what you want. And I don't think anything's really changed between the knee and him saying, but I think it's all, we've all kind of known where we're at here. But it just gives people a chance to be like, oh, he's leaving. He's leaving. That's all it does.

I don't know. I just, I don't feel like doing it from past experience. They've watched Kachuk leave. They've watched Quinn leave. Yeah, but they don't know what's going to happen. Those guys, with those guys, the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafie skipper, it's a different thing. Like, it's different. Well, that it's not Calgary or Vancouver.

It's the Toronto Maple Leaf. He's one of the biggest stars in the league on one of the biggest teams. But Chook was one of the biggest stars in Calgary. And Quinn was the biggest star in Vancouver. It's all the same. You're going to sit here and say to me that playing for those two teams is the same as being the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Come on. That's just being.

Their star player, Sammy, on Canadian teams. Not the Leafs. It's a different thing. It doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter. So hold on. So hold on. Let's just say what you're saying then. But you've been yelling.

at both of us on this show about how the job is a beast, and the president of the Leafs is different, but being the captain isn't different? It's different. No, they're all watched. They're all feel like, they all kind of feel the same in their own markets. Kachuk doesn't know what it's like to be a Toronto Maple Leaf,

but he certainly knows what it's like to be a Calgary Flame, and it's Canada and it's hockey, and he made a decision that he just didn't want to be there anymore. So then have... My whole point in all of this is just that people, People are nervous because it's real. It's not just made up in their minds. They've watched it before.

They've watched scenarios before in Canada now under two occasions. And they're really nervous about Austin. And they should be. It should be. Listen, I'm not sitting here saying he's not going to leave. I'm just saying that there's not a, I don't think it's necessarily comparable between Calgary and Toronto. That's all.

I also think, you know, he has been here for a long time and they've had a lot of success here outside of the postseason. as I'll be reminded in two seconds. And I think that there is belief that this can be turned around. And I think if you're successful here in Toronto, he'd want to be a part of that. That was the impression I got from his comments today. I didn't hear a guy who's saying,

I'm leaving, I'm going to ask out in two weeks here. Like if he was gone, why wouldn't he even requested a trade by now? Why wouldn't he behind the scene? Because he's got two years left in his contract. But he's... And he doesn't know whether or not the team wants to keep him for another year or all of it.

Mitch stayed for all of it. Yeah. And we're saying the same thing. You don't want to tip your hand. You don't tip your hand. It's a poker game now. No, he has two years left. I know.

He's not going to just say nothing for two years like Mitch. Yeah, he is. He is. You think he's not going to UFA. They're not going to do that again. No, but every time he's asked about his future, it's either going to be, I'm not going to discuss it,

or I've got two years. Of course. I'm committed to the leaves for two years. Of course. And that's it. Okay. Yeah. So how is what you're saying any different from what I'm saying?

I don't really know what you're saying. I'm saying that he's going to go into this, see what changes they make, and probably be here until Christmas. I'm with you. I'm with you on that. But like, why till Christmas? Well, because to me, if the team is a bottom feeder again, there's no point for either party in carrying on. I just... I think it's unrealistic to think that between what we've seen all season long,

especially the last three weeks, that's... It's the easiest thing to say in the world. They were awful. It's going to look a lot different by Christmas. I don't think you have to be a lot different. I think you have to have a direction. You have to have brought in someone or some piece or something to say... It's going to be a while.

It's going to take some time here. Well, if you can show a direction, time is okay if you can show a path to me. Okay, that's fair. We said it before. It's easy to like, yeah, they're going to suck next year, so there's no chance and they should just trade. They should just rebuild. The whole people, the people that have just said rebuild, rebuild,

there's no chance, there's no chance. It's just the easy thing to say. It's the easiest thing to say when you still have, like, this is one year out of the playoffs in a decade, one year out of the playoffs. And you just, you still have these two guys. And don't even get me started on William Neelander's press conference today. And maybe they just have one guy.

Whatever. But like, you just don't have to even. competent general manager, a different coach. They could be decent next year. They could be good next year. Like that's allowed. You start trying to find the guys you currently have. So it's just trading everybody right now, get rid of everybody and just enjoy the other side.

I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think that's going to happen. But if you keep them and you're just going to have to play the old money ball game, right? You're going to just have to find low value players out there that can, rise to the occasion. Totally. And 31 other teams right there with you. You know?

Yeah. It's hard. There's not that many good players out there, to be honest with you. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. And this is, but a hockey guy like yourself should embrace it's hard.

And okay, let's do the work. Rather than being like, this is too hard, we better give up. Nobody's saying give up. Nobody's saying give up. That's what rebuild is.

give up on it. Trade them all away for picks and futures and lottery tickets and just start over. It's also being a little realistic and you know, you got to, Sam, if you're wrong on that

it should have been bigger of a rebuild, then all you're doing is just kicking your problems down the road for more years and that's how Detroit, that's how Buffalo turns, missing the playoffs from one year to three years to five years to seven years

to ten years. Okay, that's what you want to avoid. Or you can go scorched earth like the Blackhawks. I don't think Buffalo's... Seventh, eighth, eighth, eighth and eighth. Every year. Like, I don't...

Buffalo had first overall pick and got a bad Ikel and like that's all about... It took a lot of time. Well, yeah, but that's a lot about organizational mistakes and trading away the wrong guys and pissing people off and all that stuff. Like, just trade... Trade...

Matthews trade Willie neck in this offseason get the byfield package you get the Brant Clark package get some D-Man from Anaheim, lose 50 games next year and everybody would be happy. Yeah. And Matthews scores 50 goals and there's a Selky winner and William Nealander's lighting it up. And we're all like, God, how do you get players like that? Like do it. And see what the fan base feels like. I know they suck, but like this year.

It's funny that Marner's not been more of a lesson. I miss him, huh? What you don't want to do is just. go through this again next year, right? With those guys. It depends. And that's the thing. If you're going through this,

then it totally opens everyone up. Okay, you're going to half of Matthews, still get a lot of value here. Like, that's when you're like, all right, then maybe it's time,

but it ain't time yet. We should break. Okay, let's go to break. Still got a few more clips, Sammy. Yeah, some interesting, stole our stuff, which I'm sure you'll be interested in. Okay.

Tenev, Riley. Oh, plenty more. Lots of stuff. Cleanup day. for the Toronto Maple Leafs on our Leaf Hour edition. Back after these words. Hey, it's Alish Forafar. And I'm Justin Cuthbert.

Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan free game. 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to the program. Boy, that we just run right through the third base stop sign, A, on late break in our first segment.

No. I don't think. Oh, there are. There you go. I said fabulous. Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. Hey, before you get to what you want to get it to, yes.

Leafs line tomorrow. Ooh. 416, 413, 4141, call us, leave us a message. Yeah. Be creative. We love the creative one. Poems, music.

Anything. Do we? I mean, I don't think you do. You have a higher cringe factor than I do. So, okay. You get the icky easier than me. 416, 413, 4141, 4141. Call the lease line for tomorrow.

Plenty of people going through the front of the front of door on interviews this this week and last week for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Oh. Yeah. Chris Pronger, I think

is right in the thick of things. I'm sorry? Yep. I'll throw it a name for you. 47, eh? I'll throw it a name for you that has interest. Okay.

Player agents are out there. Judd. Moldaver is the agent for Austin Matthews, who I think would like, would like some interest. And I don't know in terms of where or where that would fit in. But the precedent has been set in Edmonton with Jeff Jackson, former agent for. Buddy, Kent Hughes doing long.

Right. Would that make you feel better about Austin's chances staying if Judd got involved? I kind of feel like, see, this is funny because we just did that whole bit. I'm saying why I think it's likely he sticks around through the start of this upcoming season and isn't gone this summer. I kind of feel like I'm not sure they should commit to him either. I'm not sure, like, is Austin Matthews going to become Elias Pedersen? You know, where it just doesn't have the fastball anymore. I don't know either.

So I think before I say, yeah, I want him for eight more years. I'd like to see him come back and shoot the hockey puck in the net a bit more. I mean, that's fair. there is a chance he's just broken. You know, like, so yeah, like, I don't know if Judd would be great, awesome, or otherwise, probably very capable of doing it. I just, I would have pumped the brakes on the other side of things, too. Let's just see here. And that's part of having two years left, too.

It's like lots of, there is runway to come back and just see what kind of start he has. And can we find him a winger? Totally. If I'm not mistaken, he is also the agent for another. Certain high profile superstar within the league that may or may not be from this area. I like your contract up in two years. I do like the chances of recruiting. Yeah.

Better. You know, with an agent that knows these guys. I'm down to do like, but I don't know about general manager. I'm not going there for Judd. Then what? I don't know.

I don't know. Agent Emeritus? He'll have the Keith Kachachat. Director of recruiting. Going on our pod. I mean, I don't necessarily know where the fits are. And I told you I'm not a real kind of,

I just create a team and then it will figure out the pecking order, right, and where the buck ultimately stops and starts. But surround yourself with people that can come in and make a difference for you. That's all. I'm not opposed to good, helpful people. And there's somebody, I am supportive of,

of the agent now going to another level, right? I get it. Can I follow up on Pronger? They interviewed Pronger? Yes. Any, how'd it go? I don't know, call. You got a cell number.

I'm not calling him? Call him. I'm not calling him. But there's so many people going through the front door, too, and it's like, everybody's watching. Everybody knows. Frege mentioned if Carolina loses your boy, Eric Kulski. No, it was, uh,

I think it was Myrtleman, I mentioned it on JD's show. There you go. Yeah. You could have your perfect bit here. I don't know if there would be a better thing to happen to our show than Eric Tulski, general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. That would be electric. Electric.

And they're tough in the first round boy. Maybe he's looking for a new job. But he's a genius. They're not going to lose in the first round. Well, he might. I'm going to pick them to. That was pretty darn good. Also, you mentioned Keith Kachach.

there. I thought it was pretty funny because last year during the spring, the Ottawa fans were chanting Marner's leaving. And I thought that was very good. You know, there's a high profile thing. Oh, Matthew's leaving chant?

Just watch your own bobber. You know, it's like, my own reaction was literally like, God, you're in the same boat. Like, I don't know if you saw your first scrum after he got back from the Olympics, but just be careful what you wish for there, Ottawa. We got to get the Leafs back in there.

15,000 people there, like it was. It was, all the empty seats for the blue usually is. It's just, yeah. It's just, it just sucked. Just sucked, you know, watching what still should be a must see television. I think when Sportsnet got Toronto, Ottawa, Game 82, you know, that was supposed to be a big one last night. Yeah.

Let's hope this time next year they're big. I know you don't think so. I think they're going to be better next year. I do. I think they're going to hire. The bar on better's low. They have 78. Well, you know, it's one thing that you can see.

say that, but what you don't ever come up with is how. Well, how. Born he did. Well, but also, you know, we can't do the how, you know, because I don't know who's available when you talk to GMs. Like you want me to go to the UFA lesson and fix the team. I don't speak to 31 GMs. I am trusting that there is all these hockey men that you're going to have them hire have

these great relationships that are going to lead to great insights. I believe in your hockey men. To find us these guys. I love that about you. I do. I need to come in and hear people with that hope. I do think, I'm for it.

Yes, I do think more than ever. Player empowerment, which I know you don't like as much, is leading to players wanting to change circumstances more. Like there's more players, the Thomas's and Cairoos, and there's more guys who feel like come available.

So yeah, Got to figure out who those guys are. You got one more clip for us or you're good? We're going to save him for tomorrow. We got a few minutes. We got all day tomorrow too. I don't know. It's like what?

How about the amount of turnover they need? No. No, I got a question for you. The finding moment of the 2026 Toronto Maple Leaf season. Is it? Right. No, it's Willie's finger. I think it's the gym accident.

I think that's probably right. I think it's a great metaphor for everything. We clunked ourselves on the head. I'll never forget watching that scrum and hearing the gathered media gasp. I genuinely feel bad for Craig. Oh, my God. Things were going south and the timing was terrible.

It sounds like it was just a freak bad break. But I want to know who that doctor is because it looked like he butchered him. And then within three weeks, you can't find a scorn. It's the finest seam I've ever seen. This doctor brought to you by YKK zippers. That was just an incredible performance. And it looked like the doctor got a staple from Home Depot and just...

Oh, when he first started pounding on his forehead. Fixed it. You know? That must have been a flap that covered his eyes before they threw it back on. Oh, man, that's graphic. You know? That's graphic. Buddy.

Brutal. Oh, my goodness. We've even talked about Willie's pressure today. 93 minutes. Oh, we got tomorrow. Yeah, we got hurt a bit. Oh, 93 seconds. 92 minutes.

Yeah. We got. That's how long we just went on Austin. We got tomorrow. I mean, Leaf Edition hour sticking around, isn't it, Sammy? Oh, I think so. Guys, we got another month of Leaf Edition hour.

Wow. All right. But we get to go national next. Gary Gowley, former National Hockey League, analyst for Sportsnet, Hockey Night in Canada. Let's start teeing it up, boys. Stanley Cup playoffs this weekend. Sammy, returning in you

into a Montreal Canadian fan. We are. We are. More when we return. Real Kippenborn Show.