Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Matthews Hits 50 in Homecoming

Episode Date: February 22, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs extending their winning streak to 5 games with their 6-3 win over the Coyotes last night. They get into the defensive pairing chemistry, Matthews reaching the 50-goal mark, Tavares' reduced role, Bertuzzi's struggles and Marner's recent stretch of incredible playmaking.  They are joined by former captain of the Golden Knights Deryk Engelland (35:39), who tees up tonight's game between Vegas and Toronto and shares his thoughts on Vegas' title defence efforts thus far, Mark Stone's injury, who steps up in his absence and what weaknesses they need to address at the deadline.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

time to do radio sammy is that what you call it is that uh is that term still accepted in 2024 let's do radio let's do that radio let's do that radio core that's what we are boys it is the real kipper and born show show. Yeah, that radio thing as well. Wherever you're catching us, on the radio, on the television, on your pod, we are glad you are aboard. Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6 as always. Download us whenever you can't get us live, and remember to text us at 590 590 nick kiprios

justin born sammy mckee derrick brandeo jen roll nick for the next two hours including this first hour on our leaf edition of our show the leafies keep winning boys it's easy it's easy looked easy no morgan riley five and oh yeah yeah we had to answer the question on the television last night do you make anything of it sam mckee i i do make it sucks for them because they played against them you know i thought i don't think the the blues and flyers are in the same class as the Coyotes and Ducks in terms of crappy teams. But I don't think the Blues and the Flyers are great either. And you have Morgan Raleigh coming back tonight, starting a stretch of hockey that is Vegas Golden Knights, Colorado Avalanche, Vegas Golden Knights. And it's very possible they go 1-2 or 0-3.

Hey, maybe they've really come together. But it's not gonna help that said conversation you pitched towards me yeah we were saying before the show kip like if you look at the schedule before the season and you're in a good team you know like the leafs are whatever you're 10th in the league there are points in your schedule where you're they're scheduled streaks you're scheduled to lose a few in a row to win a few in a row this they played some pretty soft teams in Riley's absence, so they took advantage of it. 5-0, climbing up the standings. Off we go.

5-0 with some stability on the blue line. It wasn't that anybody stood out beyond. Like, holy moly, where did he come from? He carried us for five games. We saw steady play out of Benoit, who's been doing it all season long. McCabe looks fine. Brody looks comfortable on the left side since he went over there. Lilligren played well, okay?

But granted, he has not had a great season. Brody and Lilligren were seven goals for, none against in Riley's absence. A couple of good games. The hope is that he can continue it, but again, a rather small sample size, but collectively, they got the job done. Yeah, and I feel the same way.

They got the job done. I didn't think anyone lit the world on fire. I did think Benoit took a step back last couple games for me. A couple of turnovers in the neutral zone where just, you know, instead of making a play, you know, and I know he's the guy who doesn't have to make plays, but just kind of jamming it up the wall and a couple of turnovers. But Lejoie and Rafai stepped in and weren't bad.

They didn't do anything that made you go, oh, you can't use those guys. So kudos to them. So can I just ask you simply tonight, who's Morgan Riley's partner tonight? I think Jake McCabe. And McCabe had been with last night, Ben Y. And I'm not sure I'm in such a hurry to break them up.

Are you? I'm not in a hurry to break them up, but Brody has looked so much better, and he had been bad. And I think keeping him on the left side is important, and Lilligren finally took a step. Okay, so you leave them alone, and then you slide Benoit down to the third pair? And now you're back with Morgan and Jake.

Yeah, Morgan and Jake. I think that sounds correct to me. And I think this is a good test to see how far Sheldon's come in these five games. Because we've been hard on him for going back to old habits, dying hard. Old Sheldon, prior to these five games,j brody's going right back there yes right like it's immediately tj brody going right back on the top pair with morgan riley he's gonna go to that but maybe he's shown a little bit he's gonna now that he's gotten contributions from mcmahon and all these people from below the lineup he's gonna be like hey i can use guys in different spots

maybe we'll see i don't know you know what will be interesting is to see if he uses these lessons like you're talking about not just on the back end, but also up front. John Tavares played third line center with Bobby McMahon and Nick Robertson last night, and I thought the best line for the Leafs last night was Bertuzzi, Domi, and Nylander. They were all over the puck, created chances. They were feisty after whistles. Nylander went back at a guy.

Did you see that yeah yeah i did he did it he gave him a little it was good i know jersey public enemy number one jersey but think about domi and vertuzzi on the same line is a little bit of something the leafs haven't had both pests in a scrum it was kind of delightful derrick englander former captain of Vegas Golden Knights will join us in about half an hour and we'll get a feel for uh defending cup champions without their captain Mark Stone who is now out week to week according to the organization yeah Eichel's not ready to come back in so they look like they're a little less powerful up front with those two guys out of the lineup so outside of that they're still facing a rather big strong defense tonight uh yeah in vegas so that that'll be a good challenge

but let's uh let's stick to last night a little bit, JB. One quick note. Vegas is number one at defending the slot for first in the NHL. So you're right about that defense being tough to penetrate. Apparently, Mark Stone is week to week with an upper body injury and the injury is not related to his back issues from last year, according to the head coach, Bruce Cassidy.

I wonder if he'll be ready to go like April 19th. So we'll get into that. Don't you accuse my Golden Knights of that. We'll get into the eye-rolling situation with Mark Stone a little later on the show. So let's just jump right into Sheldon Keefe on our Kippers Clippers of his overall thoughts of last night's win. Get going well early in the game. Take control, take control, whether it's a huge goal from McMahon to get us going,

and then our power play taking advantage of their opportunities. And then it gets a little hairy there in the second period. I think they get two. But I did like how we managed it. Don't like, obviously, they get the third goal there at the end of the second period, but I thought, by and large, they managed it well. Basically, from the point of the time they scored the second goal,

I thought we did a pretty good job of it. It was a really good third period, really clean third period. Obviously, Willie's scoring coming out of the box helped a great deal, but I thought the guys managed the third period very well. You had on TV last night highlighted, you know, Sheldon was a little panicky and yappy at one point in the intermission. That's on you. That's effing on you.

But since after the timeout, they did settle down. On a side note, if I'm Tree Living or Brendan Shanahan, I got to keep reminding him, you're doing yourself and our hockey club no favors. You're not going to win those type of arguments with them. You're just going to create animosity towards the officials, especially for me in a game like that where you know you're the better team. You're up 3-0. Okay, what is the big deal?

Like you need calls that badly against that team on this particular night that I don't have so much confidence in my team that you could screw me over a call here and there, and it doesn't matter because my team's that much better than yours, and we will just overcome it. Yeah. That's my attitude towards, that's the attitude I want Sheldon to have. Yeah.

You know, I have to pat myself on the back, Kip, but after the first period, you know i said to you that like they were going to score more the leafs but arizona was going to get three you know one of those games where the leafs it once they get up and it looks like it's going to be easy and comfortable you know they're going to take their foot off the gas they came out for that second period being like all right run time we're just going to run the clock then arizona shot a couple in net, and they're like, ah. Has Sheldon? We're going to have to play again. Because you've known Sheldon forever, and you were with him in the minors,

and you've seen a lot of his. Has he always been this hard on the officials? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Because it really feels like it's over the past month. I don't know. It's Nick Nurse-esque.

It flashes to him, and it's just he's always all over him. They're always at the bottom of the penalty call table, right? They don't get the calls. And to your point, you're not going to win the argument. You're also not going to win their affection. I don't know where he would rank in terms of the whole league because we don't watch other coaches' reactions as closely as we watch Sheldon's. But he's top three for sure

in my eyes on on officials who just have no time for sheldon he can be like sarcastic and dismissive and you know it's it's all stuff that like we all talk like that but you gotta manage the referees a little bit better than he has all right we've gone 10 minutes not even mentioning austin matthews what'd he do uh became the second player in team history to score 50 goals in a season and no slowing down, apparently. Especially with number 16. There just seems to be a connection now that might be head and shoulders above anything that's out there right now. Dry Seidel and McDavid, Rantanen and McKinnon. They're right there with those guys.

Oh, no. Currently, they're at the top. guys oh no they're they're well currently better they're at the top they're the one for sure um most multi-goal games in a season in leafs history austin matthews is number one with 15 this year he did it two years ago as well with 15 and vive did it uh about 20 years ago exactly 20 years so no 40 years ago 40 years ago. 40 years ago. My bad. I'm not good at math. I did today write my Toronto Star article. You can catch it on my ex-account or my former Twitter account, at Real Kipper. And just basically drawing a comparison.

And the comparison that stuck out to me last night was going into the game that they played the same amount of games as in their Toronto Maple Leafs 534 uh and I thought that was kind of unique uh but then there was some some other you know comparisons and that is that putting the puck at a at a greater rate than any other players in history for, for, for goal scoring. And the fact that Austin in many ways is still challenging to, to take that success and turn it into a playoff success. And unfortunately for Rick five, he,

he didn't, he didn't have that in his era, but. Were those five teams. So I don't know how many times he went to the playoffs with, I think a couple. Yeah. Yeah.

A couple. Were they good teams? I think a couple. Yeah, a couple. Were they good teams? I think the years, two years, I think for sure that I can remember that he had over 50 goals that they were under 500 during the regular season. Under 500, yeah. Probably the answer is not really. Yeah.

It's funny, right, because you look back at the early going with Matthews when it wasn't really, Iews when it wasn't really i shouldn't say it wasn't really his team he was a huge part of it too but when he felt like caudry and jvr bozak and those guys you know in the early going you're the underdogs against the bruins you win you lose those years and it's like okay learning lessons and really you know the lack of success comes down to the few years where you puke it away to columbus you puke it away to montreal like those years maybe now he's a different player and maybe marner's a different player and they were awesome uh you know last year in the first round and get a playoff win and all

that but yeah you can't go back and fix those so now it's a matter of you're going to have to have success in tougher circumstances than those years were like you can if you win those two series against columbus and then whatever happens after that and the hab series whatever happens after that you can look back on the first three and be like okay those are their times that they were right and it's like they may be going runs right especially i mean we don't didn't want to do this today but the covid one against the habs is the all-time what if. Tavares is Chernak, right? You know, last year where it's like you're missing a key guy

right from the start, and it's probably the difference in a series. They had a 3-1 lead in that series without him. So, you know, they get past him, and they have that Jets team who they own the whole year, and then beyond that, like that's the greatest what if to me, but you're right. And it's hard for me as a fan to not measure, especially at this point of Matthew's career, to not measure the lack of playoff success

versus what I'm watching in the regular season. We're going to have Mike Kelly on to talk about the MVP stuff later. And I think of that as playing into it a lot with Leaf fans and their trepidation to say MVP and MVP because it's like there hasn't been that big playoff run moment sort of thing that you're weighing it against. It's a tough one. I enjoy watching it every night. I really

love it. But it's little birdie is always in the back of my mind. But if he does not find himself in a conference final or a Stanley Cup final in the next few years and we are having this conversation 15 or 20 years from now. Yeah, it's Charles Barkley.

It becomes part of your legacy. It is. It's almost worse. The MVPs and the records for 60 or 70 goals are almost worse When you try to put it into a where does he truly rank amongst Maple Leaf players? Like, can you still win multiple MVPs and have 70 goal seasons and still be considered one of the greatest Leafs of all time if you've never seen the light of day past uh a quarterfinal easy answer is if you pulled your weight or not you know like if he goes into these playoff series and you know

he gets a goal in seven games and they lose in seven games then no you can't hold your head up you know but if he if he scores six times and they lose in game seven it's different right you know like it's a totally different how did you play and versus the rest of your team so yeah it's it's big definitely legacy stuff it's i think he's at a point in his career where we've gone from will he be the guy in the nhl that he was on the way up where it's like number one overall pick superstar can he make it you know da's on the panel talking about you know uh you know gretzky's goal record with matthews now oh boy i know da just can't wait all these old news now yeah but but the point is like we've reached the point where okay he's going to be in the nhl hall of fame yeah he is one of the going to be one of the all-time games great and now we're changing

it to where can he get legacy wise there are i i believe believe there's a strong base of the fans that are going, well, if you can score now, you can score in April and May. We expect this when it counts against Florida. Of course. Why wouldn't you? And nothing less, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, as well as anyone, it is a different environment,

but you are expected to deal with a different environment. That's your role. A very, it's, it's harder. Yeah. But you mentioned the, like the, the echelon that people talk about Matthews in and, you know, you think of him in the similar to McDavid,avid not better but like in that echelon of of player think of mckinnon you think of all these guys you think of kucherov you know these guys

eventually get one right like you think about like the greats and if you're talking about him as an all-time great it usually eventually happens but you know what but the difference is he wears that sweater and it's like no that's the one i think i honestly think that's part of it where it's like people are not willing to say that because of that and the early playoff failures in his career but like if you're a leaf fan that's holding out hope the all-time greats usually end up getting one i say that all the time and i do believe it but it has changed because there's 32 teams. Yeah, there's too many teams. You know, when there was 20 teams and you were the best player in the NHL

or one of the five best players, you were going to be on a team that was going to have a chance every year. You know, it's not guaranteed. It's just not when there's this many teams. There's going to be more guys, and I said this on the show before, last year's Hall of Fame induction is Sadeen, Sadeson luongo no cups between all of them like it's going to be more common for these guys that said those guys still had a stanley cup run a deep run you know joe thornton including i'll tell you what i liked a lot last night was watching austin matthews have all but, what,

three and a half, four minutes in the third period. I don't think he had a shift in the last six minutes. Here's a guy that everybody's getting excited about. Can he hit 70? Can he hit 75? Could have easily been a situation where Sheldon put him out there to finish a hat trick. Chase it.

Chase it. didn't do it yeah and that to me tells me Sheldon and the team have a feel that the next 27 games here isn't about just 34 here I've got to get others involved here and I hope that continues here. Two things I want to mention. One of them let's talk about Marner next because he certainly deserves that air as well. But Sammy, you had

some stuff today before the show so you weren't there. Sammy and I had a brief conversation about Tavares. You guys talked before the show without me? Did I give you permission for that? That we ever talked before the show without me? Did I give you permission for that? That we ever talked before the show was... I mean, we talk about everything but hockey before the show. But we did mention

how it feels like Sheldon Keefe, whether it came from Shanahan and Tree Living or just Sheldon's decision, it feels like they've talked to John Tavares and been like your role is going to be a little different. He is playing third line center a couple games in a row.

He is not on the first power play unit. As a given, Bertuzzi's gotten some looks. You know, he scores last night, has some pep in his step. It feels like they would have had to have had a conversation with him. Without a doubt. There's no way you just do that. He's the lineup one day and carry on.

They're trying to turn him into a checker. A checker? Yeah. Yeah, no question. That go out there and don't cheat for your offense. That's what was told. Really? Yep.

I like this. Yeah. I like this. And it's okay. Yeah. We don't care. He's going to finish. He's going to get chances.

Finish 60 points, 70 points, 80 points. We don't want you any longer to feel like you have to drive the offense like you did for 10 consecutive years in the island and the last five in Toronto. We need a centerman that we can put on the ice in big moments and win draws and play good lines. Stay on the right side of the puck. Yeah.

Don't turn it over. It's going to lead offense for him. And if you do get a goal here or two, great. But don't feel like you have to be that guy still. You know what's fascinating is, is like he just gets his shots from such a dangerous part of the ice he'll still get them he can still shoot the puck if he does this uh inner slot shots in the nhl just the total inner slot shots the top five right now is zach hyman john tavarez uh eric sinek austin matthews anders lee then there's guys like pointing can

chuck and both kachuks you know like all the kachuks um so like he's still he he's in that group of guys who gets pucks there yeah uh and he will even if he decides to check so yeah he's playing with bobby mcmahon and nick robertson fascinating combination for him boy mitch martin the one thing i will say to you guys is that's that old mike tyson line where it sounds good until you get punched in the nose. So where is Sheldon and where is JT? If you happen to be down 2-0, 3-1, 4-1, and you need offense now. Do you resort back to Austin and Mitch every other shift?

Do you push John back out there? Is John on the first unit on a power play? His factory settings are offense. His default settings is that way. Power on, power back on. He's going to be going for it. But 27 games is a lot here moving forward. And I got to think with John continuing to have this different look, they're probably shopping for another centerman.

Yeah, he scored his first goal, first five-on-five goal since December 23rd. Tomorrow's February 23rd, by the way. I thought it was February 11th. I'm sorry, December 11th. Or maybe first even strength or five-on-five. Yeah, there is some difference whether it's even strength or whatever. But it was the game where he got his thousandth point. It was his last five-on-five goal.

And I know it's early, but so far it doesn't look like John. The body language on John has been good so far, right? Captainly even. A couple times last night, I think he came on with the last 20 or 30 seconds of the power play, and to me he got shot out of a cannon. It looked like he had good jump. It looked like he knew that he didn't have a full two minutes anymore,

and there was a sense of urgency so you know so far it's not like he's not taking it well right i feel bad because i asked for the two units but it's like john devars might be better there than bertuzzi no i mean he may be better there than i think it's like I think I think Tavares got a little better in offensive instincts sure and I haven't loved Bertuzzi up there I know they've been scoring but it's mostly just on the back of Matthews firing it in the net but it's like yeah when push comes to shove 91's on the top unit the playoffs I think absolutely if it's game seven you need one he's the guy who's there oh game one he's there. Yeah, good point. Last night we had a little bit of a segment on our panel, Leaf panel, that said biggest surprises.

And I had Bertuzzi, I mean, as a surprise of the lack of offense. It's a clever twist in the questions. Yes. Well, that's what I do, right? Everybody, and you've mentioned this at times is like just it's okay he'll score in the playoffs or he'll he'll get hot at the right time do you really feel like that still has a chance here with him i do you do i do because i don't oh that hurt yeah i don't and I don't know what it is. And someone says, like, why? And the only thing I can come up with is for whatever reason,

he's just not a good fit for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Whoa. He's just not. You don't think so? His style of play or his, there's just something. He doesn't fit on this team. Maybe he hasn't fit with line mates yet. He hasn't gelled with anyone.

No. But he does pass it it well which is baffling he he's made he sets guys up and he wins really yes i think he's a good passer and so so they've just they've just been really bad at finishing his plays or else he'd be have 55 points 60 points this is where it's baffling because the analytics, which, you know, sometimes they get it wrong, but often it usually corrects itself. He still drives the play in the right direction. Okay, so maybe from 60 to 84 it could correct itself. Maybe. So I believe it could.

I don't know. I don't know if it's just he's too mucky and grindy for the Leafs. They're still too highly skilled in the offensive zone, but there's nothing meshing. Every time he's on the ice, it just seems to stall. It just seems like he's using a wrong-handed stick. He just can't get any juice on his shots. Put some tape on the top.

What bothers me about the one strip of tape or whatever is that it's a material performance thing now yeah it's where it's like you know in terms of cradling and catching pucks and putting spin on it like you know it helps there's a reason every other guy in the league does you know like it's not it's not a style it worked for the bruins in the first round when he had 10 points didn't it but the point he's trying to make and this is what drives me nuts about is like it doesn't matter i could do it with a shovel you know just give me the tool and i'll whack it in the net and it's like there's a little bit more to it but we're giving you a shovel and you're not doing it right so maybe tape it now tape the shovel he couldn't score with a bazooka it's just been frustrating we need to give marner some due before we get to gas uh

13 assists over the last five games five multi-point games which ties a toronto may police record for consecutive multi-assist games i think it's boria salming he died pretty well-known player not bad the assist he makes on the kneelander goal is creating a goal out of thin air the pass he makes to tj brody some people might think showboaty hot dog it's not that's the best way to get the blade at that angle from the angle he's going it's a just an unbelievable play the vision the confidence to make it just elite vision his his subtle passes do not get the credit they deserve no yeah no i mean he is a reason he has a million assists every year right he makes a ton of great little plays that you don't notice even the separation to win that puck

is something marner does better than people think like in terms of creating pucks for his team outside of the points of him when it's going like this he just affects the game so much just his energy and his decisiveness and like his reads he's great on the penalty kill like everything he does for you when he's going well like the engine is amazing and the problem like when he's not on which i mean he was had a tough start to the year you don't notice him as much and you kind of get down on him but then you remember you're like oh it's these stretches that you you live for yeah and but what kills me is like he is you know we're all over matthews about team success in the playoffs and when marner is going he brings the

game to his level right like everything stops and everyone his speed and everyone watches him and he just like and there's a pace of the game where it's almost like it it changes and it's like too frantic or something like that and i think he's capable of bringing playoff hockey to his speed i think he's capable of making people do this all year round um but you because you can see it's there you can see he's able to do it. We got Mike Kelly in the second hour, hockey analytic guy. He's going to talk to us a little bit about MVP. So we're obviously going to have Austin Matthews in that conversation.

But last night we also talked about Austin and we'll lump mitch in here too uh 24.7 of the goals are scored by austin isn't higher than that no i think it was 24 okay and it was higher than that i think i think it's 25 or 26 oh maybe okay yeah all right no i don't know about 26 it was 25 last. Okay. Yeah. All right. No, I don't know about 26. It was 25. Last night. 25.7. Yeah. Or something. Yeah. That sounds right. Whatever it is, it's ridiculous. It's a quarter of their goals. It's a quarter of the goals. And

the number's too high. It's just crazy. Of course it is. And all it's just telling the whole league and especially the Florida Panthers if and when they play them yeah is shut down these two guys and it's over for the leafs i know you can't put a bounty on a man's head as joe mcgrath once said well you're all we're all gonna end up in the clinker for this

you can't can't do it but if you're playing the leafs you say game one and two we're gonna chop them down like christmas trees. You're all over them. Yeah. And they're screwed. Yeah, and then people go, ah, these guys can't perform in the playoffs. And they're pointing at the rest of the team. They go, if we had someone else, it would be really helpful. What team can perform in the playoffs if their two best players are hurt?

It definitely takes away your – I mean, that is the game plan for every playoff. I wanted to play this, but nobody – but other teams don't have to have 25%. Correct. The last clip I wanted to play, because we didn't really play many clips, but the clip – Keith clip five about how the group rallied during this thing

talks about Morgan Riley a lot. It's a great clip. It's one of the better Kippers Clippers that we've had all year, so I want to play it for you guys before we go to break. Let's do it. You know, I think the group has really rallied here, you know, since Morgan's left the lineup in particular. And it was obviously not Morgan leaving the lineup so much as that incident

and how it all played out. And Morgan, in essence, you know, defending the pride of the group and the pride of the logo and all those kind of things. And, I mean, this team means so much to Morgan Riley. And in that moment, he shows you how much he cares about our team and what we're doing. So we didn't love the fact that he was going to get held accountable to it. Nothing to do with the suspension or anything like that,

but just, you know, he means so much to our team, and he's a long-standing Leaf, and all those kind of things you can see in that moment. So, if anything, I thought it was a real wake-up call for our team to get real serious about winning and taking care of games and rallying around the moment. And the guys to me have very much done that and uh you know it's a good chance for us to continue to build

upon here now and welcoming morgan back what i'm just that was my article last week it was no like right after you the monday after that happened your take was like he's gotta be trying to fire these guys out. And it worked. The Sens may have provided the Leafs with a moment. It kind of. The championship DVD will look back on him burying Ridley Gregg into the boards. That's the cover.

It does bother me, though, when I hear people say there is no correlation, that that's just stupid talk. Oh, that's insane. No correlation between the wins? No, Morgan doing that and, you know, did he need to do that? Yes. Right? God, if he goes in there and hugs him. Didn't need to do that.

It's just people don't want to associate that incident with rallying the troops or, you know, or the pride or having pride into like, you know, stepping up in that moment. And I'm like, yeah, it does. And I've said it for a long time. And then now Sheldon, who's living it now, right? Living it.

He's the one that is facing every every day the guys and he's saying it how can people not understand the the emotional aspect of what morgan did is part of it for sheldon though trying to connect that story for the rest of the leafs to convince them that that's what it was you know what i mean that's that's what it was? You know what I mean? That's a talk I hate right there. No, no, listen. Because part of it is, as in psychology, we are really good at creating stories. The Leafs win five games against crappy teams after a crosscheck to the face.

And we go, oh, it galvanized them. And, you know, is it not Sheldon going, boys, this was it. This was our moment. And you're trying to foster that belief as the coach? Yes. Well, maybe it is because there's still some guys that he thinks he needs to get through. And maybe his lineup has been raised in a different manner yeah and you know the one thing that i do worry about this team is how emotionally invested they are at times over the course of even the regular season or especially in the playoffs

so maybe maybe you're right maybe it is just sheldon every once in a while nudging them going hey like this is what yeah this is the emotion that we need and when we face florida and they're rubbing your face into the glass this is kind of helps right it kind of helps yeah yeah we should go we should go okay we'll take a quick break here and we return former captain of the ve Golden Knights, Derek England. What's he up to these days? Everything Vegas, man. Doing stuff with their alumni.

All right. Should we grill him on some kind of interesting decisions by the team with Mark Stone going on long term? Are you going to suggest their captain is not hurt? I'm not going to suggest anything. I'm just going to ask him, what's up with Mark Stone? And will this open up the salary cap to go make another trade? Is that a fair question?

That's a fair one. I think so. All right, we'll ask Derek if it's a fair one after the break. More real Kipper and Board after these words. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliot Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick show subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Tonight in Vegas is the first of two meetings

between the Golden Knights and the Toronto Maple Leafs. Next week, they'll complete the home-and-home. Next Tuesday, for now, we welcome in Derek Englund, former captain of the Vegas Golden Knights. Derek, how are you? Thanks for joining us. I'm doing good. How about you guys? Yeah, we're good.

We're hanging in. Just want to get your thoughts overall in terms of coming off of a Stanley Cup championship and where Vegas, you think, is in defending that. We know how difficult it is to win back- back especially in a salary cap era how uh how is vegas uh held up so far in your eyes uh you know the start of the season i think uh was surprising to everyone come out as as strong as they did but uh you know you got to get as many wins as you can and they had a little lull in, you know, late November, early December. They've kind of read their ship until,

you know, lost three of the last four, but a lot of injuries adding up right now. It's been nice to have a little bit of a break in the schedule with all star week. And then only three games. And I think that three games in 20 days or something before the last couple. So hopefully you get some guys back and some good news and uh keep moving forward for the

push here one of the guys that it doesn't sound like they're gonna have back is mark stone um you know every fan base right now is mad at vegas thinking they're gonna keep him out till playoffs and use that salary cap space where is the stone injury and what does that mean for the knights as they head towards the deadline make decisions yeah it's uh you know it's a blow blow to the team uh he's such a good leader uh you know 200 foot game uh all situations and um you know just even just uh you know his goal celebration just up everyone on the team. So it's a big loss to them. Obviously, I don't know what's going on with him.

But, you know, you never want to lose a guy like that. And I'm sure once they see what's wrong and go into the trade deadline, that's going to play a big factor in what they're going to do. So who steps up up front? We know, I think, marsh or so might be a game time decision if i'm not mistaken but you know stevenson's been a guy that i don't know if we ever looked at in his washington capital days uh thinking he was a frontline player but man oh man every time i watch vegas he's one of the best players on the ice where's his game right now and in terms

of leading this club without a guy like stone yeah when you have you know stone and eichel both out you're gonna look towards those guys steve-o you know he's had an up and down year i think probably not where he wants to be but uh this is a perfect time for him to step up and take the reins and and be that uh you know that number one centerman uh that that he can be he's so gifted uh such a good skater uh so strong on the puck so you know you're gonna look towards him marchie like you said carlson um and then you gotta hope uh some of the young guys that are getting that shot to show what they have they gotta step up and um seize the opportunity that they're given

if they start on whatever line. But they've got to push those spots and hopefully contribute to losing those big-name guys. It's not one guy stepping up. It's a collective whole group of forwards that have to step up and replace those guys and, you know, getting Theodore back in his next second game is going to be huge. You know, I'm sure he's got the cobwebs off after last game a little bit. He missed a lot of time.

So him being back there adds a lot to the offense and the decor too. So what do you think as they head towards the deadline? Are they where they want to be? Just going through their stats, it seems like maybe they could use a little bit more offense. Do you think that this is a team that's going to be looking to make some big additions here in the coming weeks? They always seem to surprise you with what they pull off.

So nothing's too far-fetched here. I'm sure they're going to do whatever they can to make another run and repeat. So, you know, I haven't heard anything yet. They usually keep things pretty quiet. You know, you don't read about much with them, but they always pull something off that's big, that's a big help to the team. I don't know if you've

noticed, but there's a pretty hot score coming into Vegas tonight in the likes of Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner. Now, if there's one blue line, Derek, I think that might be up for a challenge right now to shut these two guys down.

It would be the one in Vegas. Besides the obvious, they're big and they're strong. What is it that makes this blue line stand out amongst most? I think obviously you've got a top guy like Petrangelo, Theodore, your third pairing, White Cloud and the Hag. When guys are out, they play

second pairing minutes and they have no problem with that. They're definitely deep. I don't think they're worried about who's out on the ice against who and they're going to have their hands full with Toronto tonight. But, you know, obviously you want Petro and Martinez out there against those top guys at key times.

But, you know, with those big guys out up front, you're going to look towards the D-Corp to chip in and shut down. So with them trying to shut down those guys, they're going to need also a big game out of Hill tonight. Yeah. Last one for me, just on the goaltending there and Aiden Hill is, we talk about the four nations face off and everyone's like,

who's going to play goal for Canada. This guy's name is kind of on like the periphery of that conversation. Tell us about what he, where you think his value is compared to like the public perception of him as a goalie yeah i think uh you know i've met him briefly here and there but uh i've heard nothing but good things how good of a teammate he is uh on and off the ice uh just a low-key guy down-to-earth guy and uh you know he's uh stepped in in a tough situation last year when um lauren burson went down and and played out outstanding uh you know got uh rewarded with a nice contract to your contract and he's come in at the beginning of the year you know you look at

those first 10 games that they won he he was a big part of that. He made a lot of big saves, kept them in games when they probably shouldn't have won. So he's stepped up this year. It was a big question mark if he could perform like he did in the playoffs, and I think he has and exceeded that all year. If he stays healthy, he's going to be right in that talk for Team Canada for sure. Derek, really appreciate your time. Enjoy the game

tonight and thanks for doing this, man. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Thank you. I appreciate it. Former captain of Vegas Golden Knights. You know what I was wondering? He has an active ceiling fan going behind him, but it's in a room that is outdoors.

Buddy, I was thinking the same thing. What is the temperature in Vegas right now? If I would have noticed him sweating, I think I would have cut the interview right there. Derek, I don't need to see you sweating in 84-degree weather. He's got a nice tan. What is the weather? Are we cutting in on your tea time?

Yeah, it's currently 17 degrees Celsius. So, yeah, it's just about room temperature out there. No clouds. So, having recently been to Vegas for a Vegas Golden Knights game, my Knights, as you know, top one for you, my two favorite teams when I'm against each other. Yeah. I was there for the Penguins, which has a very passionate fan base tons of yinzers as they say

the pittsburgh sports fans yeah i would love to see what it's like for a leafs night because you're gonna have all the people on trips going down there for the game people like i would imagine it would be an electric atmosphere there tonight. So I don't know if you said this on air or you said it off air, but you're not seeing the Leafs win tonight, are you? Yeah, I really don't feel like tonight is a great night for them. I'm hoping. How about this?

I don't usually say this, but I'm really hoping for a measuring stick game for the Leafs tonight because I think that if they can find a way to win and have a good look, and it will take a good look. I'm looking at this blue line going, who's penetrating through this blue line tonight? Bud, you know I love you. But if they win tonight you're

gonna come in here and go they didn't have stone they didn't have like no i'm not no i'm not i'm not not not against this blue line yeah i'm gonna tell you boys i'm tripling down on they have to go for it right now the d we had a little bit of this conversation oh did we that that i don't know you tell me you gave me updates on how many people trade a top prospect for if if they find everyone if they find a way to have a very good showing tonight it will suck in all the doubters to say okay maybe they're better and closer than we think. Tonight is a type of game that can do that. No. Martinez, Petrangelo,

McNabb, Theodore, Hegg, Whitecloud. Stanley Cup winning decor, all six in tonight. So, you mentioned that conversation we had yesterday about Easton Cowan. Just looking at it now, update, 280,000 views on X.

And all of them say no, don't trade him. Yeah. Pretty much. 90%. Here's what I, I don't know, I, do I know my Leafs nation or do I know my Leafs nation? Exposed nerve. You saw it. The second you brought that up, I was like, oh boy. It's so funny though, like Minton, no one would flinch

when we mentioned him. Like, Nyes, I think people don't want to trade him. But McCowan has already embedded himself in the psyche. I don't know what it would take. But if it's one of those where I think I can get two or three pieces that can help me win now, then I'm telling you they need to consider trading this kid. Yes. So you're on board with that

are you not so if you maybe get better maybe not for lawson kraus wouldn't say he was no no no no no this it was never played listen it was never this is this is the idiots on the internet right it was never about cowan and kraus it was it was cowan and a first for say kraus uh jack mcbain josh brown you're talking about a big blockbuster yes yeah and to me it's about the idea of centering around him yeah of trading someone you really like to get better today and next year and the next year. At the end of the day, you can't snap your fingers and get big. It just doesn't happen without paying a price here. Like Jack McBain. You like McBain, eh?

To go up against the Sam Bennetts of the world and, you know, the guys that can piss you off, the kachuks of the world i need to get bigger yeah i'm telling you that in the next year or or two it's coming through florida right now so get bigger cowan can help you get bigger up front he can help you get bigger on the back end and let's see how they measure up against vegas tonight but yeah they were people like easton cowan i i think it comes down to like i don't know if i mentioned this yesterday here i don't know where i mentioned it but it's just at least i haven't had a top prospect in a while. Yeah. Outside the core four. Right. Where it's like. Yeah.

But that's what happens when you go for it. That's what I mean. Oh, I am fully on board here. You can't go for it in the last two years. Maybe three. And then bail. Now. Just middle it.

Become the Minnesota Wild. Losing the first round. Pick 15th whatever 20 right 22nd you made the bed it's gonna be a tough we're just lying in it tough pill for uh leaf fans to swallow and strathroy ontario native east of cowan is dominating for the silver tips in utah oh it is tough for tree living in his first year here to say tree you gotta do the big thing. You know, like people want to come in

and they want to put their toes in the water. He came in mid-stream here. Like, all jokes aside, if Dubas is still the GM of the Leafs this past summer, Nylander or Marner are probably not here. Whoa. Something big had to happen after last year. It had to. And it ended up being dubious so

all the players stayed and then gm comes in and kind of tries to be careful tree's got to do something big something big i'm with you otherwise we're gonna come on here and go big big all in all in baby guys push for big trade all right're going to take a quick break. Our thanks to Derek England, who's teeing up the Vegas golden Knights against the Toronto Maple Leafs. The first of two games in the next week. In the next hour, Mike Kelly, hockey analytic specialist with the network and sport logic.

Yeah. Okay. We're looking forward to it. Talking MVP next. Don't go away.