Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Matthews Injury Fallout

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne, and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' weekend, where they took three out of four points against the Sabres and Wild. They discuss how the team's energy has shifted since Auston Matthews left the lineup and the fallout from his season-ending injury. Later, they discuss Bo Groulx's chances to make the team next season, the future of the goalie group after Artur Akhtyamov signed his extension, and whether the Leafs should lean into the tank or try to cultivate a winning culture down the stretch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right. Let's get her going here. Brand new week. Real Kippron Bourne show. We're live on SportsSat 360. 590 the fan in Toronto. Streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Also available Spotify, Apple podcast and YouTube. Nick Kippreos, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee,

Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo with you for the next two hours. Toronto Maple Leafs, climbing in the standings. Awesome. Which isn't, I think, music to Sammy's ears or you, J.B. And I think we're going to have a discussion on that. I think we are. I'm ready.

Toronto Maple Leaves with a big win. It's the Minnesota Wild. Three out of a possible four points over the weekend. Buffalo and Minnesota. Two pretty good hockey clubs. Yeah. Leaves going toe to toe with them. The pride is back, boys.

Where do you begin? If you're talking about a tank perspective, it was going so swimmingly. Yeah. Oh, it was set up back to back against Minnie and everyone else won behind you. They were fast asleep. Even in the Ducks game,

they were getting filled in as usual. The shots were. out of whack. Everything was going perfectly. No one was competing. No one was trying. And then public enemy number one, Radco Goudas, came in and ruin the Leafs tank with one knee.

What an observation. It's true. It's what happened. That's not what you thought when you saw when he saw him go down. It was like, oh, this is really good for the tank. They're rolling over. Matthews is just heard. He won't play the rest of the year. They've lost their best player. Well, Matthews being out definitely for me, I was like, that is going to

help them lose games. Everybody said that. Yeah. Everybody's set off. Have you seen the record without him? Yeah, okay. I mean, but you don't actually think they're better without their good player. Oh, no, no, no. Explain yourself.

They are a better team with him out of the lineup. That's what you're saying. They play differently without him out of them. You sure about that? And what is it? Just that we don't have the guy to score goals for us anymore, so we just got to try harder now? Is that what happens?

I'm looking at Sam. I think it's a stupid thing to say. I think that they are a little less too cool for school when he's not in the lineup. I think there's a little bit of a vibe that comes from him, that permeates from him, who is very cool for school, and that when he's not in the lineup, they play a much different brand of hockey. I'm not saying it's better. It's not maybe better from the standings or whatever, but it's not. It's definitely different and maybe a little bit harder-nosed.

That's my, that's my, of the how many games he's missed in the last 10 years, that's how I feel they look. And they are about 20 games above 500. Their lineup was better with Willie out of the lineup and Matthews out of the lineup and Mitch out of the lineup. And they should take them all, they should play with all American League guys and they'll have their problems there. I'm not saying they're better. I'm saying they're different and sometimes difference better. No, I do think that there is a short-term burst, and I've long said this, that comes from

superstars being down, guys getting elevated. That's what you're seeing right now in general, is you're seeing Bo Gruel push to prove he's relevant. Jacob Quillan pushed to prove he's relevant. You're seeing Dakota Joshua try to keep his job. Matthias Machelli try to keep a job. You're seeing everyone going. They all got something to play for individually.

Last night on the broadcast, you said, these guys are private, independent contractors, And they're all working. And they're scrapping for sure. Now the question is, is like, if you're Brad Tree Living, let's just assume he's back next year and the decision maker, how much stock do you put in the last 15 games? Zero. Yeah.

As you should put in almost zero. I agree. I agree. I just, it just, it's great that you can pad your stats maybe. And if you're in a position, to convince other teams that you got a chance to go and do some great things. Yeah, just let me know. But I can't go back with this group.

I can't go back on my thought process that is heavily skewed towards the last 15 games of the season. Right. I can't. I think the other aspect of the Matthews, without Matthews, last two games that cannot be. overstated enough is that they are totally playing guilty and they are full of shame about what happened against the ducks. They're finishing every check.

There's every scrum. Like they're just in the mix. They're playing harder. They're trying to look aggressive. Like they just, they have a look that they haven't had all year. Why? Because they feel guilty about what happened to their cap.

They're being publicly ashamed. Shouldn't they have felt guilty that they took one of the easiest schedules in the NHL for any team and like flushed it down the toilet by November? They weren't getting publicly. Where was the guilt? So you're saying that the Toronto media that everybody claims runs people out of town

was actually too easy. At that time, yeah. Yeah, I think there's a real case to be made. What's happening right now is there's plenty of stories of famous athletes being unfaithful to their wives and then buying them giant diamonds shortly after. And then if you cut your vision off,

Here you see an athlete going, boy, he buys her diamonds. What a great guy. Or you could remember how you got there in the first place. And that's these leaves. They're buying us diamonds. But we know why we're here. You're the relationship guy on our show. Everything always comes back to a relationship.

Yeah. Well, listen, it's bang on. So they're buying themselves out of this thing. This is their attempt to be like, hey, I'm a hard worker. I'll fight. I bought Luke Shen. What is that? Great.

Great observation. What was that? Look what I can do. Look what I can be for you. Right off the bench. Has not wanted to do that all year long. And off the bench fights one of the tougher guys in the league in Luke Shen for just no reason seemingly. What is happening?

Look what I can do. It's just me around. And this is what it's like. This is the new me, baby. And they're clearly really not talented right now in the bottom half of their lineup. They've called up a bunch of minor league guys or whatever. But they're more talented at the bottom of the lineup. Well, I mean, I like wah a lot.

I like lot and a lot. Like, those guys played a time. The guys that are, okay. That's what I meant. Okay. They're just, you can't tell me they weren't not trying. It's so harsh. But then that stretch before Matthew got hurt,

they looked so awful. And people are like, they just have no talent on this team. They're no, whatever, they weren't trying as hard as they've tried the last three games. I'll fully say that. Totally. They were not locked in like they're locked in the last three games.

Is that unfair? No, I agree. It seems like forever since or a lot's happened between our last show and today. Gort Stelich was nice enough to fill in for you for Friday. So we have not been together since all the three of us since Thursday. True. All that's happened now is Matthews has been lost for the season. Goudis gets suspended five games.

The Leafs are winning. Like that'll happen in like three days. Right? So where do you want to start just on, again, the whole, you know, Gouda situation? Where do you want to pick up? I'll shout out a guy you guys know I read Anthony Petrilli quite a bit at Maple Leaf Hot Stove. He made an analogy cut it back to, do you remember when Milan Luchich ran through Ryan Miller?

Sure. And that was, I believe it was 2011 or something like that. And no one did a thing about it. They just let Luchich skate off the ice. Paul Gostad was on the ice. After the game, Gostead said it was embarrassing. And they said to Lindy, oh, Paul Gostead said this was embarrassing.

And Lindy goes, he was on the ice. You know, it's like, and then after that, Buffalo kind of ripped itself apart internally. And this is a big moment for the Leafs. This Matthews thing is a big moment. It is, will Matthews himself be upset that there was no support from the team? Will, does it change the perspective of how you feel about some of the tough guys? The follow up to Matthews be upset is like, would Matthews,

have done that for anybody else. That's, you know, I've seen that a few places too. That's out there a lot. Well, that's like, I mean, doing the hockey dressing room test. That's the number one. Like, Kneelander gets a knee and Matthews is on the ice. Yeah, he's going to fight. That's good.

And I'll stand by that when you talk about whether you have decent culture or bad culture, it's not the guy inside the jersey you're doing it for, you're doing it for the Jersey. And that's a big difference. And that's non-negotiable. What do you mean in this instance?

What do you... I mean, you're saying... I'm saying regardless if it's Austin Matthews, regardless if it's a guy that doesn't do it for you, you still have to have... Right. The makeup, the fabric. That's what you're supposed to do

regardless of who it's. It's four. If that guy is wearing the same uniform that you're wearing, getting in there is non-negotiable. So it could have been Beau grew, and you still should have been flying in there because it's one of your guy. 100%. Yeah.

And that's where I begin and end, whether or not that, you know, Matthews wouldn't have done it for you, so you shouldn't do it. No, no, you do it for anybody that is wearing that jersey. Yeah.

That's what you do. Yep. And now you want to, go deeper on did they really feel that way? Maybe you've got some sort of conversation to say was there anything that

led to that moment where they just don't feel close enough to each other to have a natural instinct to get in there. And that to me is a conversation. To me, I am someone, so Kip, you and I are wired differently. I am someone who is

more hesitant to get into that sort of stuff and was as a player and wish I wasn't in something I tried to, as I got older, I felt more confident in those situations. But you're always kind of looking at it. You're looking at Willie and you're looking at Mo and those guys who aren't fighters and going like, was it on purpose? Can you know, like, I don't really know.

I didn't really, you know, and all of a sudden the moment kind of passes as opposed to you where you just go, and I listen to the Kachuk brothers on their podcast today talk about how if it's your best player, if it's whatever, and a guy gets bumped, you're going flying in there or whatever. I think the Leafs have a lot of guys who just aren't wired like that. I got no problem with that in terms of... It's not good. It's not great, but now it comes back to Brad Tree Living.

Because you were the guy that was going to fix the DNA. You were going to get those guys, the snot, all of it. And when push came to shove, you're telling me they're the wrong guys for that situation. Yeah, I am. And I'm sorry, it falls on Bradd then, Brad Tree Living. That's your responsibility. Totally. That those guys, you don't have the right guys out on the ice.

Yeah. No. That's not an Austin Matthews thing. And it's not a Micelli thing and it's not a Willie thing. It's just maybe a little bit more snot to our game. Maybe they made it clear a long time ago. I'm not that guy if you're looking for it. Yeah.

I will sit here and continue to say that I am stunned that Riley did nothing. Yeah. Riley, the one to me of all the guys in the ice, I am still surprised to this moment that he, like, he's not a tough guy. He's not a fighter, but he's always been. There must be something there because there was for Greg in Ottawa. There was something there.

He's always been sort of willing to get his nose dirty in these situations. Like he's been in tons of scrums. He's willing to do this. And to your point about them maybe not feeling connected or them being like a true team, a huge part of it is they're just, until that moment, they had been fast asleep for three weeks. They're not playing competitive games.

They're getting filled in every single night. And when the moment called for them to come together as a team, like any playoff team would or any team in a race would, they just didn't have the capability. And I'm not excusing it. It's horrible. But I just don't think they were locked in at that moment. No, they weren't locked in.

They weren't paying attention. They weren't focused. Totally agree. We mentioned tree living. That's Barubi to me. You know, if you are you trying to win games or not? and if your team isn't locked in, that's partly on the coach

that we're just sleepwalking through games and you're not ready to react accordingly. We heard from Craig Bruby on our show last night and he referenced that he's been trying to tell them this all season long. That stood out. That stood out for me. All season long. So if you're Craig Bruby and I just said,

You got the wrong guys. That statement is kind of lending itself towards, I don't have the right guys. So he's like, I'm pressing the button. And they're not responding. And it's not connecting. So that in itself to me is a bit of a red flag that maybe is between Brad and Craig. And, you know, Friege did his headlines on Saturday. and I loved it because it was all about the Leafs,

which really made me love it. But he was talking about how, like, how big of a deal that was and, like, how much people have talked about it or whatever. And I've seen some pushback to it being not as big a deal, maybe as people have made it out to be or whatever. But when you're- It's a signature.

That's exactly right. A signature moment. It's a cherry on top of what's been a pretty crappy Sunday for 10 years here. I got to think that if we look back, 10 or 15 years from now to that core 4 or whatever you want to talk, whether Mitch, it's Mitch here or not Mitch, that's the number one thing that people are going to remember is that your captain went down and you guys did nothing.

I think to me it's almost like the ribbon on the finished crap gift. It's a defining moment. It's over now. Call it the final nail. You know, this thing is done. So I don't know. By the way, the fact that the agent put out that strongly worded response, I don't think he puts that out if the client doesn't feel strongly about it too.

Oh, and then it gets followed up by another client who happens to be regarded as the best player and the most powerful voice in the game. Connor McDavid follows up. So I think there's certainly a game plan, let's just say, between the agent and the two stars to say, and I don't mind it you know I don't mind it because they're not coming out pissed off they're just coming out

as maybe we should revisit the way this thing works and I Judd's pissed off Kipper no no he is no question but it's Judd I appreciate him but like his voice doesn't carry anything

compared to Connor coming out the other day and just saying that we need to maybe look at this. Do you want to, I mean, we can probably going to play at the national hour. Yeah, we'll play it a couple times. It's big.

Derek, if you could, the Connor McDavid clip I put it in there, if you can play that for us. Yeah, you know, I think, I think the player safety has done their best. It's not an easy thing to do.

You know, with that being said, I think that there is reason to take a look at how the whole process works. You know, if every time there's a suspension, everybody complains about it. Well, why don't we, why don't we take a look at the process and figure it out if there's a better way to make sure that both parties are happy because, you know, it seems like there's a lot of frustration there.

So we'll pick it up in the national hour when it comes to McDavid and how it may affect him moving forward. But in the meantime, you know, from a leaf perspective and Austin Matthew, How do you think he views of it? Where do you think his view is today on whether it's the league or the way my teammates responded or didn't respond? Yeah. So I think it's that part that he'll care about. Like does Matthews care if Goudas gets five games or eight games?

He plays for Anaheim and the other division. They're not going to see him, you know, maybe I guess there's one more game with them on the 30th. but like, do you think he actually cares about that? Do you think McDavid? I don't, so how about that suspension? If it's a guy who's not Radco Gudis, do you think it's more than five? Definitely not, right?

Like it's just, definitely not. Like, it's just any other player. It's like the Goudis amplifier. It should be more than five. Definitely should be more than five. I don't disagree with that. I don't.

I'm not saying that he needed to get 10 or 12, but I think the league missed a bit of an opportunity to send an easy. message to a guy who's reckless. Totally. He's hurting the stars. You can't take our best players. People pay a lot of money to go see these guys and you can't be reckless. So here's another three or four games.

Give them eight or nine. Totally. And we're good. Everybody's good. No one's going to come back and say, oh, my God, that was crazy. Yeah. But you kind of treated them like a first time offender, whether it's three, four, or five. We're in the ballpark of first time offenders at three, four, or five.

We've been coming in here for five years doing this show and you've managed to keep me guessing those five years, Kipper, and I'm stunned to hear you say that. Why? I thought you definitely were going to come in here and say that that was an appropriate suspension. I'm stunned by that. I agree.

It's Guides. I know. Goudis who put out Sydney Crosby in the Olympics and then did the same thing to Austin Matthews. But do you also agree that that's not nearly as much of an impact on Matthews, whatever the number is? Just get it somewhere appropriate. and then it kind of doesn't matter.

Like, to me, it's way more about what the Leafs did, what the Leafs do now. Like, the actual suspension thing, that's a totally separate issue to me. That is, okay, are we redoing Department of Player Safety? Fine. But this Matthews thing is separate from Department of Player Safety. That's a team thing.

That's a relationships, leadership. Do you think he wonders today, Austin? Where were they? I don't know. Do you think there's some guilt in his part? because he's like the fact that Easton Cowan hide the core four in fights I hope I hope there's a little bit of Austin going

before I judge my teammates for what have I done at this point or not done to maybe put myself in a position where they need to second guess coming in to help me and you know like it just I can't get over the fact that it hasn't come up at some point you saw Rasmus Dahlin fighting recently see Easton Cowan gets in there with Jackson Lacombe.

Like over your course of your career, I even talked about how that's not my thing, but I did it every year just because I felt like I should and your teammates expect you to and that's kind of part of the thing. It's crazy to me that there was never a moment where Matthews had to do it. Where, you know,

I mean, he did do it once, but it was horrible. McDavid kind of fought whoever it was the other night. Yeah, got the hard last name to pronounce it. Yeah, the Dallas Stars player. Like there's just moments where it comes up. But it's never for Willie, never for Mitch. Never for Tavares?

The one thing, my biggest complaint on Austin Matthews, and you guys have heard me from day one, is it's never been about his talent or his inability to not be as great of a playmaker as I would have liked to. My biggest thing with him is he's non-confrontational in a confrontational game. Yeah.

And all the stars, are willing, and it's not fighting, it's not dropping your glove, it's not wrestling with anybody, it's just having that aura, that when you go into a room or you go on the ice or you go into a scrum,

that you've got a presence. Can I make a comparison here? He has no presence in any type of situation other than shooting a puck in the net. And it's not enough when you wear a C. You got to get in there. You got to tell a guy on the other team, you know, we're coming after.

Whatever it is. Connor is confrontational. He's willing to stick his nose in there. He's willing to say stuff in the media. He's willing to yell at his teammates as he did in the playoffs. You don't get any emotion out of Austin at all. Two guys who don't fight, who could be what Austin could do, is Leon Drysidl and Evgeny Malkin.

Drysadle just about slashed Petrangelo in half with his hockey stick in a playoff game. F you coming out of there, you know what. He's not going to fight anyone either. But he's also got, don't touch me. Just, you know, like just F off. And that's good enough. Part of what has been missing for Austin. And maybe, just maybe, if you kind of connect the dots,

it led him to this situation. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, maybe it's, it could be part of it. So now I guess the question is like, you know, Elliot's talking about now they can talk to him and talk about No, they were always going to talk to him. I know.

They thought they were going to talk to him now. Please, the conversation with or without this environment is where is your head? Do you want to be here? Look at our team. Look where we're at. Are you with us or against us here? But you know what's crappy is that if you have good solid leadership that's going to be here,

you can go to him and say, what are we getting, for our money here. Are you going to be better next year? Do you have more to give us? I guarantee you that ain't happening. I know it's not. That conversation is not happening because it'll only screw you over and it'll take

less leverage out of your situation. But this has been the core for all along where you've had to lay down and say, tell me, tell me what you're going to do. I know. Tell us what we get from you, please. Instead of being able to say, here's the way we're doing it. But your way where you said, just, you know, what are we getting for our money's worth, it won't lead you to anywhere except it's too late for that, you know,

it's too late. But it could have been something. Oh, no. You're 100% right. Your instincts on that. And it should have been part of the buildup in year two, three, or four. And you could have used any example, either on the ice, off the ice, the way you treat your negotiations. What is this due to Mitch?

What does it do to Willie? What is, it's your team? Do you guys want to sit there and be jealous of each other? You want to challenge each other on who can get what for how many years. We're never going to win. And Brendan kind of did that five or six years ago when he kind of came out in public and said, you know, we're going to all have to take a little less. And they snapped on them.

Austin, you know, that's what agents are for. You remember that? I don't remember that specifically. That's what Austin told basically Brendan. Yeah. And the media. Well, yeah, but that's what agents are for. And it's like, but Brandon was also talking about a time when you could just spend as much money as you want it with no salary.

It was like it didn't. Like it wasn't really irrelevant to the situation. It wasn't perfect. Yes. But it kind of showed their cards a little bit, all of them, on where this thing was headed. And, you know. Both Willie and Mitch holding out for different lengths than I know. They didn't get here by accident, right?

There was a, there was a, there was a, there was a trail. Yeah. All right. Anything last night? Well, no, I mean. Where? We didn't exhaust this? I, have you heard anything on the extent of the injury for Matthews?

Because not only... What's the matter? He's done. He'll be ready in September. What do you need to know? I want him to train. What do you need to know? Well, I just...

It's gone really poorly here. What are you worried about? Tell me what you're worried about. It's just the season from hell. Like, it's just really, really... a, just a franchise changing, horrible season from hell. Oh, wait, there's more. Like, they're not going to get a pick.

Here's those. Them somehow trending towards potentially getting into the top five, okay? Right? Oh, yeah. Where they were playing like crap, they were fast asleep. Then having a moment that maybe makes your superstar center, question his teammates and not...

And it affects his ability to train. And doesn't want to be here anymore. And not only does that happen, it galvanizes the group to the point where now they're like starting to try hard and may win some games so that they get out of that position where they're able to get a top five pick

so that you give that number seven or eight pick to your division rival who you have lost every single trade with and have really lost every playoff series too. I can't imagine. imagine a worst. Like you can't just have a stock bad year. It has to be the worst possible year ever.

Yeah. It's crazy how bad it is. And people are... That don't make no sense. What do you mean? What I just said does make any sense? No. How we got here, right?

It doesn't make any sense. It didn't seem likely. You can't win when you're supposed to and you can't lose when you're supposed to. No. Anything on the ice? By the way, Matthew. use a surgery, do we think it's likely or not likely?

Again, it doesn't matter. Well, if he has it, if he doesn't have it. I just want to train. He'll be fine for September. Can I say something? He wasn't exactly picking up pace as his career went on here. Yeah. I don't love a knee injury at age 38 or 38.

It's old eye. It looks 30. Age 28. It feels like I've aged to be 38. He'll be fine. You think? He's in a prime of his life right now. 28, 29 prime.

the knee's going to be fine. Okay. I'm just saying. You're worrying? He's like, you didn't slide down the mountain like Lindsay in the Olympics, for goodness sakes. Relax.

Okay. He's honest, his knees probably fine. They were just hoping a tank. Yes. Yeah, I mean, it was pretty interesting, the guy who was the most secretive ever with injuries.

Not playing. When they drop that, right before they gave it. It was hilarious. Something tells me that actually Craig Bruy might be enjoying like his coaching style a lot better with a lineup like this.

Yeah, he's like, this kid listen to me. They're thrilled to be here. Right? Yeah. Maybe that's got something to do with it too. You got some hungry guys out there. Do you want to break and then we can get to the guys and get in on, are these guys viable help?

All right. Did you want to mention that Bobby McMan has five points in his first two games is the Seattle Crack? Second. Five points. Yeah. Eight shots. Playing 18 tonight.

As Seattle said that we would have given them a first. Yeah. I mean, definitely good thing to wait until the last possible minute and get a second for them. All right. Just like that. We've sold nothing, nothing, and we're not even halfway through yet. Well, we'll talk, well, we're definitely halfway through. We'll solve something.

We'll talk about the, we'll talk about Boogrew after the break. Okay. Groozy. More when we returned, Real Kipper and Bourne. Hey, it's Matt Markees. And I'm Mike Futa. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon.

It's the fan hockey show on SportsNet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to the program. Nickyaprious, Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee, it's the Leaf Hour edition of our program. We got some sound, Sammy. Yeah. So, I guess the biggest story over the weekend was Bogru, I guess. J.B.

gave him a job next year. Yeah. On her telecast last night. Yeah. I mean, how could you not? How can you not? Yeah. 15 meaningless games that he's been gifted 19 minutes.

And I don't know. Do you judge it? Do you sit there and go, okay, we just said earlier, like 15 games really means nothing for other guys. How much can it mean for Bo? To make the team next year. Well, I mean, it doesn't mean nothing in terms of you get to see him against NHL competition and can he do things that other fourth line guys make an $812,000 can't.

The answer is that most of the Leafs in the bottom six can't shoot it past a goalie from distance. Okay. This is where me and you are going to disagree here. Yeah, yeah, that's good. Okay. Ooh, that was a snapper by Bo. I'm not looking for Bo to snap it in. from 30 feet out

playing on my fourth line next year. You know, it totally depends what identity you're looking for. So I would love pace and physicality on a fourth line too. What do you mean you would like it? Then get it and demand it. It's never happened here.

No, no, no. That's, again, that's got to change. Michael Posetta has been here the whole year has got called up for, what, two games and hits everything in the moves and gets in a fight and they're like, ah. So don't just fall into the same trap of having these fourth

liners that go out there and think that they're really second and third liners just waiting to buy time. Like it's enough. I look at the fourth line over the last little while and now I'm seeing Quillin, Lorenz, Yarn Kroc. I'm like,

what do you think a fourth line does? I know. What do you, like nice guys. Totally. But like I'm watching, I'm watching Nashville. Who's that? Ozzy. Ozzy. Wiseblatt? Wiseblatt.

Did you see what he did to Leon Dryside last night? Smacked him like a bug, all right? Along the wall. I don't know about that. No, what do you mean you don't know about that? He smacked him like a bug. He kind of caught him in an awkward spot. He caught him awkwardly his head.

He is a pest. He is annoying and he's a guy. A lot of guys don't like to play against. Yeah. Okay. And he's got them all the way to three points worse than the Leafs, that Ozzy Wiseblatt? What on a fourth line?

Who on the fourth line? Who on the four? Excuse me. Nashville's... Worst than the Leafs. But they got... I don't care. I don't care.

They came back. They made a fight to a playoff spot. Listen, you're missing the point, Sam. Okay. All right? Just saying. He's value... He's got value to Nashville

because he's annoying and he's a pest. Totally agree. That's your fourth line. I think you and I are on the same page of a one thing. He's the same guy that took out Easton Cowan. Remember him? Ramming him into the post? And you were saying,

so upset. And guess who did nothing about it? Same guy. When was the last time a leaf guy on a fourth line did anything to annoy anybody? Yeah, totally with you. I, you know, for years watching Coralli and Boston do it and you know, they had a chari here who's a refrigerator of a man. That was a fun moment. But yeah, I

love that too. Is Boe gonna do that? No, can Bo be your third line left wing where Bobby McMahon has been over the last couple years? You're gonna have to have some guys making 812. You're gonna start him. On your third line based on 15 games of this? Robertson, Machelli, Domi, and Cowan on my wings this year. I'll take Bo with any of them.

And you miss the playoffs by a country mile. Yeah, absolutely. So instead of paying one of those guys three, let me get Bo for 812. Spent another two on someone's going to piss anybody off on the third line checking. It's not going to be his job. So why wouldn't? What's his job? Third lines.

Check. They check. They check other top players. How many checkers you want. They piss people off. One, I need one center who can check. It's not Austin and it's not to-barus. I understand that.

I want a fourth-line center that checks too. I don't need a third and a fourth line and a third-line, left-winger, and a third-line right-winger. I don't need six guys who run around and don't play hockey. At some point, someone's got to make a play. The Leafs can't make any place. This guy's a smart player. He's got some offensive upside.

I don't love him. He doesn't escape well enough. 15 minutes a night and the third line situation. He's been, Anaheim said no. Then he goes to the New York Rangers. He doesn't get a sniff there. He said no.

Then he got hurt. This year he played the minors. He's leading the American League in points. Rangers said no. And now he's on his third team at 26. Yeah. I'm not saying that there isn't potential value there. Could you turn him into a valuable everyday player

that could potentially get you a third round? pick maybe next year or fourth year maybe i'm not i'm not writing him off but i'm like where are the expectations now for him to come in and maybe be a a fourth line guy he's not he's not he's not there's no sandpaper in his game right now is you're calling guys up to see what they are this guy has 70 playoff or nch licks at 26 years old he's come up and he's looked really good can you give him some run to make sure you don't let alex steves go can we just make sure yes and and if you can turn him to an Alex, Steve's, like, good on you. Yeah, Steve isn't punching anyone in the face or being Ozzy Wiesblatt either.

Can you turn them into a 12th or 13th forward? That's what you're telling me. Sure. Something. Okay. Something that you don't have to go out and buy on the free agent market. I don't know. I also think going to be better than him.

I'm all right with that. I'm just saying that that's not, those aren't moving the needle. Right? Why can't he just be, yeah, like be your guy that plays maybe 50 games and mixes in and out of the lineup and plays 12 minutes some nights and plays eight minutes some nights. I heard him say he's like the coach's son who has a, you know, he's a defensive conscience. He knows where he is. He's smart.

I'll take one guy who's smart. Listen to this guy talk. Okay. I cut two bow grew clips. Two. Okay. Bo knows clips. Bo knows clips.

Listen to his first. On a, how about clip one please, Derek? Yeah, it felt really good. I thought I had a really tough first beard. I was behind the play. I was surprised by their speed, honestly, and their execution. And came back in a second, and I know I had to regroup. And the first one was pretty lucky.

Stetchman had a really good shot to the net, and they hit my skate. And I didn't even try to tip in, honestly. So I got pretty lucky. And the second one, lucky bouncing the slot. And usually down in the American League, those I like to shoot, especially from that area. And it was pretty fortunate it went in. But obviously, to get the win, like, they scored two really big goals off to start in the third and we lock it down in the third.

We had some big block shot, big moments in D zones. Tully was really big for us in the third. So, no, it was all around a great effort from everyone. Oh, he says all the right things. How about clip two, clip two, play clip two. Hold on. The locking down part in the third? It didn't go in.

Clip two. Yeah, I think it's like I think I have a really good IQ. And I think in the first, I was just too slow, like on the ice. Like my awareness wasn't really there and my anticipation wasn't really there. And I came back in a second. I was like, all right, like, you got to wake up. And I woke up.

I read the play really well. I just settled down. I did a couple breath work and I was good to go. He's a thinker. A couple breath work. He's a thinker. If he could turn into a great story, absolutely. And I'm not saying it's impossible.

But you be, Careful with expectations. Yeah. You know, he's not little. He's not, I just think he's fine. I am curious to see. So, um,

the, this, uh, this weekend, they signed, uh, actiumov to a three year contract. Uh,

this year is a, the first year is a two way. And then after that, it's a one-way contract. I think like 900,000 or whatever. We'll have four guys under contract on one way. Is this? What are you?

got to get rid of one by September. By September? Sure. That's when they all have to clear waivers to start the season. Yeah, I think Hildavie is no longer waivers exempt next year. Who's the odd man out? That's the question I wanted to ask.

Who is the odd man out? We did a segment last night with Carolyn about Stolars looking absolutely terrific last night. And the sole purpose of two points. Yeah. great. And no one will ever, ever question his talent or Joseph Wall's talent, meaning, okay, what's left to question? And that is, are they reliable? Right. So I think all three of us here don't have Hill to be as the one out the door. Is that a safe?

Safe guess? Yeah. Yeah. I just think it's such a dangerous game to play with these two guys. if one of them disappears, then it's like immediately you're at an Actyamov-Hildo-be goal-tending duo, right? Where if you keep these two guys, you just hope that one of them's going to be healthy for an extended period of time. And if you get rid of one of one, one of them, the other one's going to disappear immediately. That's the worry for me. Hildobey has to stay at 24 years of age. Yeah. Has to.

Yeah. To me, between Stolars and Wall, if you, I'm thinking of the next two seasons. I'm not thinking of this is a long-term play. I'm trying to get the next two seasons of good goal-tending. Stolars, to me, is competitive and wants to play and be in those moments. I don't. And never ends up in those moments because he is, he can't trust him. Played the first seven games of the series last year.

Can't trust either of. I think that's fair, you know, on Joseph Wall too. Yeah, I mean, it's really fair. Joseph Wall and that Boston series really let me down. He disappeared for Game 7, and that'll always stick in the craw of a lot of lead fans. And it was a, it wasn't a sore back, or maybe it wasn't. Again, I don't know where the value is out there.

I don't know how teams feel about Stolars or Joseph Wall moving forward. I don't think you can even, they're not value. What kind of value out there? Who's going to sit there and go based on their career, based of them, you know, spending 10 years, of never being healthy or never being able to string along 50 games, that someone's going to go, I'm trading for that, that's my guy. So who's your guy?

Well, I look, read the room in terms of who's got more value in the offseason, who's looking for, if not a starting goalie, a great 1B. And call your shot, get the best you can for him and move one out. I also am still skeptical. I'm not sure about Hildeby. I just, like, if one of the three has to go, I guess it's one of the guys that you feel like you can't trust. But I don't know that Hildaby is in NHL.

I definitely don't think he's an NHL starter. Just to a quick note on the wall, he has no movement protection this year and next year. And then it kicks into an eight team modified no trade list. and I think Stolars has some protection. He is a list. I think he's half, isn't he, Stolars? So you'd be able to shop...

I'll tell you right now... 16 team, yeah. When they're both at their peak and in net, I think Stollars is a better goalie. Yeah. I think Stolars is as good as any in the league when he's healthy and... And it's a really big gamble to make

and you'd probably have to bring in somebody else. I don't know who it would be, but I guess maybe they just trust Hill to be. But if I'm trading one of these two guys, it's wool. probably has more value, and he's got a no, no trade protection. Is there a world next year where if you even brought those two back, and even if they were to stay healthy all year,

is there a world where you think that they make the playoffs next year, just based on that? Yeah. Well, I mean, you look at the last couple games. It's like they get some good goaltending, and this is how they won $100. or took 108 points on your call. They were better.

They were better than this. No, not marginally. They were better. They were better at protecting the middle of the ice. They were deeper. And they had Chris Tannav and they had his best. A lot of things went right. Their lineup was way better.

That went wrong this year. I think even if you made the decision to bring those two guys back together, it still won't be enough to get them in the playoffs next year. That alone might not. Well, to be honest, the two of them playing like they did last season is probably enough. But the two of them playing like that, plus some other things going better. Now he's taking the

step count, taking the step 10 of being back. Hopefully Matthews better. You know what's really frustrating when you're cheering for this team to lose? These guys aren't going to miss a game down the stretch. They're going to be red hot. They're going to be as pictures of health playing every single night, every other night, standing

on their heads. Let's talk about the tank here. Wall was legitimately fantastic last night, and Wall was unbelievable against the Sabers. Like two back-to-back elite goal team performances. But you can't keep putting that stress on them guys, right? They break down just alone. When the ice is tilted like that, they're the worst teams in the league for giving up shots on goal.

And it may, you know, you may not be a, you know, put a lot of value just in shots on goal, but it does lend that the puck's in your own zone constantly. Yeah. And it's like you can't just win games like that. It's just impossible. They will break again. Of course.

Of course you can't. That's why last year was fool's goal. And next year, unfortunately, it might have to be another year of fools' goal. That might be part of it. You look at all the teams that are on the cost of playoffs or not. And on the other side of being 30 and injury prone, get out. Get out of these deals, guys, when you can. just another year older where if he breaks down again,

you go from some value to no value. Can you go get rid of both and have Hild to be actium of or get another goalie? Are we safe to say that this is the goaltending era where we have the least amount of trust in any of them around the league, with the exception of five guys maybe? This is what Carolina's been banking on forever.

Shisterkin, Vasilevsky. Bussi it up. Right? Sorokin. Like there's only like Telebuck. Three, four, five guys at the most. The rest of them, man, you could just

Totally. Throw all their jerseys in the middle of the ice and pick one. The analytics guys are like, don't spend a ton on a goalie. In one of these years, you'll just have someone figure it out. And then Bobrovsky plays 250 games in two years in a row and wins back-to-back cups. So it's the best player for a lot of those games. Totally.

What did you want to talk about with the tank? Should they commit to it here? Should they lean in? I mean, okay, that means play actiumov a couple of games. That means, you know, maybe sit out.

I got no problem with that. I got no problem with them in the 15 games saying, let's have a look with them. Or let's have someone else come up. That I have no problem with. What I have problem with is when they, they look like they did for two weeks, you know, earlier. But like, can you tolerate that for a month

to get a top five player in the draft? I would throw up. But so, What? You have to be logical enough to be like a top five players. But I need to change the culture yesterday. I cannot wait another month where people mail it in. These guys aren't going to be here, though. None of them. It doesn't matter to me.

It doesn't matter who's here, who's not here. It goes back to the jersey and what it represents. We are the Toronto Maple Leafs. We don't do it that way. Yeah, but you're talking about. changing something that is non-tangible, whatever. When you need better players,

you don't have good enough players right now. You need better hockeymen. I'd rather go get the Marley that'll try really hard like Bo. Then we do not agree. Then have them set the culture. You're not getting McKenna. Can you?

You sure could. You're not getting McKenna. Well, you're definitely not going to get them if you keep winning games. You're one of the bottom five teams. Your odds are pretty good for that lottery. I mean, I'm looking at the standings here, and the fifth worst team in the league right now

is the New York Rangers. No, this weekend killed the Leafs. It killed them. They have 64 points, and the Leaf Scots have 70 now. Yeah. By the way, tied with the San Jose Sharks, who are the knocking on the door. Great story in the league,

and they're right there about to make the playoffs. God, those teams lose a lot. It's crazy how bad that division is. No, this weekend kill the Leafs. Yeah. Like, they legitimately have to win three or four games. If they're at fault, they didn't get rid of enough players. At the deadline.

Totally agree. That's because they've had no direction, no plan. That was an issue, is that they're still probably too good to lose a lot here. Like three weeks before the deadline, I wrote Start Tank. So, Machelli is a guy that's all of a sudden looked better than he has all season long, right? Got him loose. Yeah. Great.

I think there's value there. And I don't know. I'm not saying it's necessarily for the Leafs next year. But like I don't understand how there's 20, 15 teams that either are in the playoffs or just outside of the playoffs. Couldn't they use that for, I don't know, a fourth or a fifth. I don't get it. It is weird. You know, you look at.

And now there's a story that they're going to buy them out today. Who? Yeah, Machelli. Yeah, Machelli or, I don't know. Did you see anything about that? No, no, that they would let him walk. They were just non-tender. No, qualify him.

Yeah. Because he's his contracts up. So let him walk. That's not happening. No. You think to give him a qualifying offer and then. Brett Tree Living is not going to watch him walk out the door for nothing when you just gave up Holmberg.

Yeah, I mean, just say to one of these teams, hey, Columbus, you need a guy that's going to score you of 18 goals next year. Ever since those games have stopped mattering, he's turned it to Sid. Is this the way it's going to be, these conversations for the next month? Tune in tomorrow for the exact same combo. We'll see you then. How's the Leaf Talk? Horrible.

Tune into there, too. All right. Not horrible here. We go national next. Gary Galley. When we return, real Kipper and Bourne.