Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Matthews Moves to IR + Nazem Kadri

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Sam McKee look ahead to the Leafs' matchup against the Red Wings where Auston Matthews will once again be absent as the Leafs move him to IR. They are joined by JD Bunkis (4:58) to discuss what Matthews' move to IR means in the long-term, the Leafs' 'Jekyll and Hyde' act game to game and how social media has added to the scrutiny players in Toronto face. Later, former Leaf, Flames forward and author Nazem Kadri (26:52) discusses his new book, Dreamer, why he chose to write at this point in his career and he shares stories from his time with the Leafs.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

here we go on this friday real kipper and bornless or should i change that real kipper and sammy hi kippy what's up, buddy? No Justin Bourne today as we've got him on family assignment today. Yeah, we sent him packing. I don't want to talk about the details in case anybody's listening, but yeah. Top secret stuff, but just me and Sammy and Derek Brandeo and Jake the Snake Schultz with you for the next two hours. Of course, we go Leaf Edition first as we tee up toronto and detroit tonight in the hall of fame game saturday night toronto maple leafs against the montreal canadians

both those games minus austin matthews yeah as he is officially now on the ir which would kind of be retro to going back. Not a big deal. So eligible to come off next Monday. So this Monday. So he would be eligible to play against the Ottawa Senators. You know who else is eligible to play? Connor Dewar because of this.

Yeah. We're both going to the game tonight. That'll really fill in the gaps, Ross and Matthews. But at least they have him. Prior to that, they would have to make some roster decisions to move him in. This is an easy way to get him in if you need him without upsetting the roster or the salary cap. Before we get into that, I wanted to say I was skating today

at the Eric Lindros Celebrity Classic classic for easter seals yes i played with the sportsnet team yes uh we had you know gazdik was on the team alish justin cuthbert ron mcclain if i wasn't so old your former uh north bay centennial teammate troy crowder was our pro so he's the toughest guy yeah in the tournament, and he told us the story about how he was the guy that the, have another donut. That was the clip was about, he was involved with the court. And what was the coach's name? I can't remember the coach's name.

He was telling it, but it was funny. Thank you. Anyways, we played against, we played, I only played one game. I had to leave and come to the show in the second game. But the first game we played against a lot of the guys that play in eric lindros's skate thursday morning skatey was skatey eight that's what their team name was johnny i don't know who the hell these guys were but buddy kevin we got sales guys and me out there these guys are doing three touch breakouts through the neutrals or they were this guy had hair that must been down to his

johnny my buddy john. Oh, my God. This guy was buzzing. I couldn't believe it. I felt like an idiot. Like, I couldn't get near the puck. Like, I'm not great at hockey. And he's ripped too, eh, Johnny? Ripped, huge.

And I'm not good at hockey. Let me put that out there. But I felt like I was learned to skate out there. I couldn't get a sniff. So every Thursday morning, I cannot leave the room either getting dressed or or or after leaving without giving johnny like one or two mark messier stories china club and all of it he just anyways good hockey player we had fun we had fun the day i think they ran it i think it was six or seven two yeah we barely touched the podcast scored a goal for us at least so the

former nhl i put one in for us. Yeah. There you go. It was fun. What an event. I think there was 14 teams up there. Always a great event. He came out. Eric Lindros came out. Easter Seals.

Eric Lindros came out for our team. Got a couple pictures with him. Saw how big he is on the ice. The very big E. The very big E. It was awesome. It's an awesome event. So good on Eric Lindros.

Good on Easter Seals. It was a blast up there. Awesome. We've got a terrific show lined up for the next two hours. And real soon we're going to bring in J.D. Bunkus, co-host of Leaf Talk, with you after every game. I'm sure I'll just ask him how he's doing and then get another word in the next 20 minutes.

But just note at 4.30 we're going to welcome in Naz Kadri as well. The book is Dreamer, My Life on the Edge. And here it is right here. And played last night against the Boston Bruins. What a beautiful goal. Scored a beautiful goal. They lost in overtime. But they're settling in nicely in Buffalo

as they prepare to play the Buffalo Sabres tomorrow. But he's going to come on and talk about his book a little bit. And for Leaf fans, for our Leaf Hour, it's an incredible read. It really is. And what's so unique about it is that guys wait to the end of their career to write this stuff. This guy wrote it all, and he's still playing. So I want to get into that.

And, of course, it's an official Off the Rails Friday, which means Doug McClain comes back. Now, I don't know if you've ever, like, sat in that chair and asked him questions or not. No, I've never. He's going to make fun of me the entire time. I already know it. How can he not?

Yeah, I know. How can he not? But in the meantime, let's make fun of our first guest. Let's bring in J.D. Puntis. Hey, buddy. What's going on? Boys, how are we? How are we? Yeah, I'll try to keep it brief. Let's bring in J.D. Puntkis. Hey, buddy. What's going on? Boys, how are we? How are we?

Yeah, I'll try to keep it brief. I'll try to keep it brief. No, no, no. Listen, if it's brief, it's not you. I want you to be you on our show. I don't know how to be anybody else, so you're all right. So let me start with asking both of you guys this. Is Austin Matthews injury prone?

Is he like handy? When you think of Austin Matthews, do you think of him as an injury prone guy? Not yet. Okay. No. Okay. No. Neither?

But you have to go through a series. You have to go through a process to get there. And, you know, a couple more of these, and we've got a different conversation. How's that? Okay. I'm just looking at his games played. Like, he's missed a lot of games over his career, looking at the list of his games played like he's missed a lot of games over his career looking at the list on it of his games played here i just don't it's something that i'm starting to think about more because it seems like every single year even when he does play there's always a stretch

of games where it's like he's banged up he's not feeling right i just maybe it's just more me but what do you think bud no no i think that injury prone injury prone is when a guy takes a hit and you hold your breath. Right. Like when something like, and this is not a shot, but Sammy, how often do you and I watch games together? And when Joe wool goes and makes an awkward look and save, we hold our breath and go, Oh no, something's going to happen. That's injury prone. Injury prone to me is where it's like, it feels like something always happens. And so that's just not the case with Matthews.

Has he missed some games? Absolutely. Is the record one of the weirdest things in Toronto sports? Absolutely. I think there's probably like a greater conversation there, but no, I think of a guy who's injury prone, where whenever you hear that he's on the injured list, you roll your eyes and you go, oh my God, this again? Like that's an injury prone guy to me

and i've never felt that way with matthews okay and there has to be something to be said that they are going to be over uh cautious with this guy absolutely and that like it's it's a bigger picture here is that we don't care anything about your numbers. We don't care about you hitting goals or we're past that. This is about a process of getting you and the team ready for April. And that's not to suggest that you're putting the cart before the horse in terms of will they make the playoffs, will they not make the playoffs. They have that most confidence that they will. So it's about preparing you to be ready in April.

And the only reason you're the only reason you're bringing this up is because of the fact that the tendency is to fight to go like there is no injury we didn't see him get hurt he's not he's not being carried off the ice there's nothing for us physically to to say that guy's hurt it's like he's here and then he's not here he just kind of disappears yeah much like in the in the playoffs right it's just like where is here and then he's not here. He just kind of disappears. Yeah. Much like in the, in the playoffs, right? It's just like, where is he?

And now we're doing it again. But God, they love lying about it. It's just like, he's day to day. He's day to day. It's true. He is day to day,

but they're not lying. They're just not telling you what it is. Okay. They're just everything. They're not telling the truth. Does it make you feel better, JD, that I tell you that everything I hear has nothing to do with his wrist?

Yeah, I would say wrist or shoulder, right? Because that was the actual concern. Not his shoulder either. Yeah, so when he was younger, there was a real moment where I thought maybe he is going to be injury prone, right? Remember when, oh my God, dude, this market is crazy sometimes. And it's definitely partially our fault like all three of us with a hand up for some overreactions but do you do you guys remember when we were having like doctors on shows yeah we did we've done that what's matthew's

shoulder gonna look like when he's 28 is he gonna be all right is this degenerative and so if i hear it's not the wrist i'm thrilled that's because, to get to kind of injury prone, I think of two things. It's a guy who always gets banged up. Like I said, the hold your breath. Oh, my God, it's always something. Or somebody that has an issue that's chronic or debilitating and kipper. Like, you know, this is better than anybody. Like, you start to lose your shoulder in this sport, and it's hard to get it back.

Not exactly the most physical player in the NHL, especially given his size. But yeah, if I know it's not his shoulder and I know it's not his wrist, I'm absolutely feeling much better about it. Like, of course, those are the injuries that you worry about get worse throughout the season. So, JD, let me ask you, and I'll ask you, Sammy,

that you guys have a unique show. Thank you. It's called Leaf Talk, and it's moments after a Leaf game. And for those of you that really have no life, subscribe to it because it can be fun. Thank you. If you've got nothing better to do, like go out with friends or sleep, right? Subscribe. I always am wondering on Saturday night, I'm like like who are these people thanks guys what is it like what is it like to to go in and try to analyze with the emotion of just watching

a game for and then going at it right away i listen i i get to absorb everything i watched sometimes you'll make a few phone calls, and then you prepare for a show. You guys go at it like seconds after a game. And what I've seen so far this year is that we've seen two Leafs, one that's going to win the Stanley Cup, and one that has no chance to win the Stanley Cup. So where are we after tonight?

Which one have you seen more of i i i'd say a split in all honesty it's pretty close right like it's actually pretty close how jekyll and hyde they are i can't like i try to watch as much of the league as possible but they really do feel like the most bipolar team in in hockey right in terms of one night you you're right. It's the Tampa Bay game. It's that Boston game we just witnessed. Or other nights, it's the Columbus game where you're trying to cobble together excuses and wonder what exactly happened here. They obviously, I think that they're perfect for sports talk in this fashion because you

want to have a visceral reaction. You want to have, I like both. I like being able to collect your thoughts skipper you know i have my show as well and i think i try to do that a little bit more when i wake up in the morning and i've i've slept on something but to me one of the things that i think we've lost a little bit in sports is is that gut reaction is that visceral reaction is that like oh just you see something happen and you react to it you say this guy is a bum or this guy is amazing. And, oh, my God, the feeling that you are going to be a cup contender versus the feeling that, you know, your night is ruined by a team.

And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that, yeah, we have we live in an era where we have more data, more information, more experts than ever before. And so to me, it's like the thing that I really love about the show that I get to do with sam is that you don't get to sleep on it you do have to just kind of go with it and yeah is there like a million regrettable things that we have on the show yeah of course you could do like i bet you if you did a compilation of what we were right about or what was over the reactionary versus like what was actually like really insightful and meaningful and worthwhile uh there'd be one ledger much much thicker than the other but god i just i think that's what's so fun about sports is that it is immediate it is reactionary and that's what really draws people to it it's like it's the best reality tv on earth nothing's ever going to beat it and so yeah i love getting to be able to

do it right away it's hard also being able to think about it critically later it's hard during the playoffs though i will say's hard during the playoffs though. I will say that. Like during the playoffs where it's like, I'm a fan. The reason I get to sit here, the reason I've made it all the way here is because I love the Toronto Maple Leafs. I'm passionate about the Toronto Maple Leafs. And after these games in the playoffs, like when we had to go on

after David Pasternak scores in game seven again, and I'm sitting there, I'm like, what am I supposed to say? But that's followed up on the will he or won't he Joseph Wall play. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, anyways.

So, yeah, it's a fun show to do. And I think they are a good team, the Leafs. I think they're closer to, like, the Stanley Cup contender. But I think all teams have these lulls and all teams have these bad games. But there's just so much muscle memory with this core and there's so much like built up where people have these preconceived notions about how they feel so they're immediately like oh same old leaf same old this but like their highs this year they're still the only team that's beat the jets like the jets are what they 101 their only loss

has been to the least like it's just they've had great performances i think they can build on so anyways that's to answer your question yeah but don't you feel that way though sometimes too with this team where it's like they're they're almost hard to talk about because you remember having every single conversation about them already like you are yes like you're like oh right we're doing this one tonight this is the conversation of the jour like even as we get back to the matthews thing with the record i'm almost like can you guys lose a bunch of case though matthews so that we don't have to do the exact same theorizing of kipper loves the man i i grew up with two sisters who and my mom who watched their soap operas young and the restless days of our lives so aka you watched it too the leafs have been the longest running soap opera since 1967 so they're not short of

storylines they're not short of uh of of characters yeah right the characters so that's all we're doing is just watching at times a soap opera yeah yeah you know exactly it so i just finished reading cadry's book like i know you got him on yeah it was a good book i really enjoyed it i think you're bang on in terms of writing as you're still in your career like i can't imagine being so close to it and having that happen but yeah you read about like the things that he went through specifically with this Leafs organization as a prospect, as a young man, the scrutiny that he faced, like from his own organization, some of the things that you said that were said about him to him,

some of the things that were asked of him. And yeah, you are reminded of just exactly what this has been for. Yeah, quite some time. The soap opera that is the Toronto Maple Leafs. So I'm going to get into this with Kadri as well, but let me start with you, JD, because there seems to be some different school of thoughts from people generally in Toronto

that have watched this team over the years. And that is, it's one of the hardest places to win or it's one of the hardest places to win or it's one of the easiest places to play. What do you mean? Go ahead. Go ahead, bud. And when I say that, I mean, you guys can lose. You can get knocked out year after year.

There's still 18,000 people there. They're screaming. You're still gods, as Mitch Marner alluded to. And it's like there's it doesn't matter win or lose it doesn't matter they still love you you still get top dollars they make a gazillion dollars who wouldn't want to play here yeah do you think it's easier now to be a trauma play for when you played i i think it's all the same to be honest with you it just you lean towards easier it's just no it's not it's just the same and it's just a an indige it's just an indige

individual that has to deal with it as as a player it's like what do you feel like you're giving enough or you need to give more and And where's your cutoff line? It's just some guys can sit there and say, we can lose year after year in the first round. I still don't want to leave. I like it here. Right? Yeah, they'll carve us up on social media,

but I don't want to leave here. And then there's others, right? Like maybe a Tyson Berry who will go, get me out of here. Yeah. I think the social media thing is the most important point that you made. It's just, I think there's two different worlds. That if you're a Toronto Maple Leafs, a Leaf, and you don't live on social media and you sort of go the Sidney Crosby route

and have nothing, that it could be really awesome to play here. Because generally at the arena, you're not getting booed a ton. Once in a while, there'll be a couple of boos that you'll feel. And, you know, you go out in public as a Toronto Maple Leaf, people are going to laud you. People are going to love you. You're always going to be like, oh my God, it's Mitch Murray. Oh my God, it's Austin Matthews of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

But the second you go on your phone and you start looking at, you know, your Instagram DMs or you look at your Twitter DMs or whatever social media, it's probably not going to be as fun. So if you're, there's two different worlds to me when it comes to being a Leaf, and I think social media has totally changed it in terms of the visceral that they face. No? I just think it's about the same thing that you said, Kipper, where it's like, it's personality type.

There's clearly guys that thrive here and love it here where they want the pressure of the big moments, right? Like the Darcy Tuckers of the world. They always talk about it where it's like going from playing in Toronto to going to other markets is just like completely night and day. And for me, I would just think that if you're the personality type where you want to feel as though everything has a stake to it, you're really geared towards, oh my God, this could be super important,

that playing in Toronto would be great. If you're someone that just likes to, I would would say go to the rink uh have a good time spend your millions of dollars you love being in the league but it's not your everything like hockey is not your everything but you really care about what people have to say on you the media wears on you like we've seen how that can frustrate guys like i i don't think that he wasn't necessarily for this market because he had a good career but think about like phil kessel at the end of his career with toronto right where media guys are coming up to him in his stall and he can barely handle it anymore this guy's an idiot man and again that's a that's a worse time um when it came to leaves but i think that you probably feel

a lot of that frustration with some of the guys that have been here now and that have built up the the loss after loss in the postseason so to, I think comparatively with what you see in Europe with soccer teams, with what you see with some of the biggest teams in the United States, whether it's like the Philadelphia Eagles fans or the pressure that comes with being a New York Knick or, yeah, Dallas Cowboy, that it's not as big as we seem to make it in the echo chamber that is Toronto. But, yeah, to me, it's like there's far more positives you get to i think toronto if you're rich is an incredible

incredible city to live in just ask kip and yeah i was gonna say kip you tell us like wrong guy at the end of the day you're free mercedes hey we're in the middle of the day, and I'm working with you guys. That's a good point. That's a good point. Not rich enough. Yeah, add to the pile.

Like, listen, Nicky, keep adding to the pile, brother. I think that, yeah, if you're someone that really hates scrutiny and hates the attention and just wants to kind of keep to themselves, that Toronto probably is a bit of a nightmare at times. And if you're somebody who loves pressure, thrives under it, loves to feel like an actual atmosphere with your games, although that seems to be dissipating as it gets more and more corporate in those seats, as more of the kippers are in there,

you know, count their dollars. I'm lower bowl. I got to act like, you know, I've talked a lot of crap on Leafs talk about bad fans. You know, like I really, I got to be loud tonight. I got to be Johnny Leafs fan. Go Leafs, the usher then the usher is gonna tell you to be quiet that's the the word of the street the usher's tell you to be quiet but yeah i just think that it's it's all about personality type voice like if in terms of is it harder is it not yeah so if

if we look at the start that they've had and then the the good the bad maybe even the ugly here how important is this weekend against detroit montreal to walk out of here with four regulation points or you know getting the record to nine five and two or else if it isn't are we still kind of asking ourselves what are they yeah i think we're going to be asking that question for a while right like it's going to be probably up until the deadline before we start to have a real, a real feeling of what the consistent impact is of Berube's style. To me, the important thing for this weekend that like I really care about is what does Mitch Marner look like without Austin Matthews?

Because I think that you could make a pretty strong case that his best game was last Saturdayurday and there's a lot of people who follow this team who watch this team who care about this team who comment on this team that have wondered what it would be like if the leafs would be better off spreading the talent around and like to me it seems pretty clear that max domi is not a guy that should be playing on your third line, trying to drive a couple of players that are also not line drivers, that he looks awesome with elite talent and kind of disappears at times when he's down the lineup and has to have more of like that, that two way role or that more responsible role. So to me,

it's like, are we going to continue to see this Marner? And does that inspire this coaching staff to start to think differently when Matthews returns? Like that's, that's the big question of the weekend to me, it's like, are we going to continue to see this Marner? And does that inspire this coaching staff to start to think differently when Matthews returns? Like that's the big question of the weekend to me. Love that. I think I actually like, I know this is crazy to say. Marner away from Matthews.

I like them. I like watching them without the certain star once in a while, just to see how guys react and just to see how things look. And I enjoy when they play without Matthews. I don't want it all the time, but I think they play, like it's just a different game. Everybody plays different roles and they look a lot different. Obviously, I want to watch Austin Matthews play,

but I do think it's just a, it's telling the way they play without him. So, and Marner I thought was brilliant on against the Bruins. I thought he was unbelievable. So yeah, I think them separated is something that will always, back to the well, like we're talking about the things to talk about, about but you know i think they're both good enough to drive their own lines and then with a team that's kind of lacking depth in the bottom half the lineup it's something you'd want to do yeah but kipper i was listening to you talk about the power play and how you're like hey they're they're calling the shots here like the matthews and marner like these guys aren't coming

off power play one and i i just wonder if the same thing applies to the top line, whether Berube, I hate saying it like this, but whether he does have the juice to say, yeah, when Matthews is back, he's not playing with Marner when those two guys clearly since the beginning of their careers together have stated over and over and over again that they want to be together on a line. Yeah. I think if there's anyone who you'd have to trust that if you're going to bring in this guy that's the mr accountability guy he can sit there and do it

right when push comes to shove and you need a goal you're going to put them together you're right right yeah that's it you're right that's that's the bottom line so where you feel those pressure points are between game one and game 82 you can kind of pick your spots. You got to also give the team confidence that anybody can get hurt at any time. This guy disappears. You can play with him before. Remember in November, you guys were good. You felt good.

Remember in January? Give them all those type of scenarios over the course of a regular season. So when those surprises come and somebody disappears or has a headache or, you know, just, Hey, there's a headache and there's a party at his house to watch for game three. There's others.

There's others that can pick up the slack and have confidence for it. Yeah. We should go. Cause we got to get the cadre. Okay, man. Yeah. JD. We're back.

Yeah, of course. Jackie. I'm done. I'm Wally. Yeah. JD, Leaf Talk tonight. We're back. Yeah, of course. Jackie Redmond. Jackie Redmond. Oh, I'm done. I'm Wally Piffed. Yeah, you're done. I'm done. Yeah, you're done.

Every guy's going to be like, I got to look at you. You are an idiot. Now I got Jackie Redmond. It's going to be bad for me. It's Leaf Talk. You had a great run, brother. Yeah, I know. It's Leaf Talk tonight with JD Bunkus and our boy Sammy.

And it's also the JD Bunkus podcast. That's right. All right, pal. Thanks for doing this. Thanks, bud. See you. Yeah. Jackie Redman in my place tonight.

It's a tough blow for me. Yeah. Yeah. You've lost your job. Well, good thing I got this one, right, buddy? So we want a few kippers clippers. Where do you want to go? We should get a break, come back in case Naz jumps on with us

so that we can be ready for him when he comes back, so we'll come back we'll see where we're at and then are you acting like a producer i booked the show jd's seat right now i booked the show i'm hosting the show i cut the clips i do everything around are you more powerful than me no okay good answer not at all but all right i just sit here. Okay, let's take that break. And when we return, we'll track down Nazem Kadri. The book is called Dreamer, My Life on the Edge with Dan Robson. And he's next after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper and Sammy.

Hey, it's Ben Ennis. And I'm Brent Cunning. We got you covered on all things leafs rafters and blue jays every weekday morning six to nine it's the fan morning show sports net 590 the fan and wherever you get your podcasts Nick Kiprios, Sammy McKee, Real Kipper and Board, Leaf Edition, waiting on Nazem Kadri to join us. Tough night for, it's a good point, I think,

going into Boston, a place that has left Nazem Kadri disappointed on a couple of occasions. Me too. And you too? Me too watching games there. You're not going to ask him about the meltdown. Are you nuts? We want to live that together. It is in his book it's called Dreamer, My Life on the Edge

and it's out there now. Went to go get a copy of it. And my book was selling right beside it. I saw that. I saw that on your Instagram. Yeah. That was kind of cool.

There is nothing that seems more daunting to me than the process of writing a book. Well, I can't believe that he did it and did it like during the prime of his career. Yeah. I still lighten it up. How do you got time to score 30 goals and write a book? It took me over a year to write mine.

All right. Let's welcome him in from the Calgary Flames, Nazem Kadri, who's got a book out now, Dreamer, My Life on the Edge. It will be hot this holiday season naz thanks for doing this man how you feeling uh travel to buffalo after uh albeit a good point against the boston bruins so how do you feel yeah feeling pretty good i mean uh you know besides all the long travel and hopping in and out of time zones uh about as good as we're gonna feel so uh yeah not bad and writing a book and i went through the process you know justin bourne who's not here

i went through the process took me over a year to do it like how about you like when when you were approached when you thought about writing it writing it during your career do you wait after your career how did you ultimately come to the decision oh yeah i mean it was a it was a different uh unique situation for sure i was approached by the publisher panic penguin random house to uh have this opportunity they believed in my story thought it'd be a great story to tell and i never really thought much of it but you know after that the hamster wheel kind of started turning a little bit and figured uh you know it'd be kind of cool to reflect on my career thus far and just uh you know tell some great stories along the way and did it take like a year did we able to do it in a few months over a summer like how much how much effort was it yeah yeah it was i mean it was uh

relatively strenuous for sure i i can't say that i knew what i signed up for uh right when i signed up for it but you know it was it was quite the process i finished it we banged it out pretty quickly i mean i'd say about uh nine or ten months um you know and you know got the audio book done in in a couple weeks which was a busy couple weeks for sure but you know, and, you know, got the audio book done in a couple weeks, which was a busy couple weeks for sure. But, you know, that's certainly worth a listen. You know, I was kind of pulling my hairs out a little bit, you know, reading for three, four hours straight in a studio.

So you have an audio book, Kip? Is yours? Yeah. No audio. No audio. I can only imagine the amount of takes that would take. The audio book was certainly a mental challenge. But we got it done.

It turned out great. Very happy with it. That's awesome. So this is our Leaf edition, Naz, of our show. So it's safe to say that the juiciest parts of your book are with the Toronto Maple Leafs and going from as a kid growing up to the London Knights and then coming in as a Toronto Maple Leaf. How was it in terms of how the decision to how deep you wanted to go?

Like a lot of the stuff that we go through as NHL players stay behind the scenes and they don't ever really come out. You made the decision to go to certain places in terms of how sometimes you were treated, how you were mistreated and all of that. Again, how easy or how hard was it to reflect and go back to those places that at times made you feel uncomfortable or frustrated?

Yeah, I mean, that's what writing a book's all about, I guess. It's a tell-all sort of thing and, you know, involves some juicy details and some things behind the scenes that, you know, typically fans or media wouldn't really know at the time. But, you know, for me, it was a balance. That was a little bit challenging to, you know, I didn't want to expose anyone too much, too dramatically. But I also wanted to tell my side of things and give some interesting stories along the way.

So, you know, for me, I tried to do it in a respectful manner, but, you know, one that was pretty blunt and direct, which, you know, and some obviously I made it very light, lighthearted and humorous also. So, you know, that was definitely a big challenge how to exactly portray some of the situations that happened. The one thing that I got out of it right out of the gate was like old school and new school. And, you know, when it's all said and done, you thought you were kind of from the newer school where you get to express yourself I love the story of you wearing your your beats headphones where you know Brian Burke and some of the veterans wanted that thing off and it's like you didn't really understand why but it's like it that's the way it is right and I'm just wondering now if if you understand it as you've gotten older throughout

your career to the point that they were making and was it a good point or a bad point or was it just the fact that they never took the time to explain to you why it wasn't a good reason to wear headphones into the dressing room right i mean it was it was one of those things where uh you know i was certainly one of the the only ones to do it and you know looking back on it i understand you know why they possibly you know could have been frustrated i mean as we know hockey's a traditional game you know a lot of um you know you're supposed to you know act and dress and do things a certain way. And obviously I kind of didn't get that memo early on in my career. It's a bit of a learning process. It's a learning curve.

I mean, now you compare it to an NHL dressing room. There's like, you know, four or five guys wearing Beats headphones. Does anyone not have headphones in pregame? Like everyone's got headphones. It's like, oh, whatever, know just would just be ready to play yeah so uh you know for me i i didn't quite understand uh that at the time but you know there was not really much pushback from me if someone you know one of the veteran guys or management told me hey you know cut that out you know it'd be it'd be it'd be done the next day so yeah we're mentioning the least part of this book naz uh how many times a summer because you spend a lot of time around here do idiots like me come

up to you and be like god naz we just miss you so much here in toronto and oh naz you were part of the worst trade of all time how often do those two things come up to you so often it's not even funny um and that's that's extremely flattering for myself. It honestly never gets old. It never gets old. I appreciate hearing that from the fans. And, you know, just kind of having, you know, that acknowledgement and that love, that's all a player wants, you know, to have, to be acknowledged for, you know, going out there every single night and just doing everything you can to try to win.

And, you know, the great fans of Toronto certainly, you know, noticed and appreciated that. So you're obviously very happy playing for the Flames. You guys have offed to a great start. But, you know, do you miss it? Do you miss being a Leaf? Like, I know it's a different thing being a Leaf, but, I mean, do you miss it?

I do. I do. I mean, I really don't think it's for everybody. But, you know, for me, obviously, kind of my neck of the woods, a team I've always grown up watching, you know, certainly do at times. But I am more than happy with where I am today and the team I'm playing for and the city and the fans that I play for. It's, you know, Calgary's been nothing but good to me.

So, you know, obviously, you know, I miss my previous teams, but I couldn't have picked a better one to be on right now. I want to read an excerpt out of your book where you talk about criticism, about being able to take all kinds of pressure and criticism and that you should be tough. When I started in the league, there was a culture of trying to determine a young player's toughness and let's see what they're made of. But now we're much more aware of how damaging the kind of approach can be.

Were you damaged at all when you left the Leafs? Oh, I mean, you nailed that, Kipper. You nailed it, buddy. You know, I think, you know, it can be a little ruthless at times. And, you know, I could, you know, I try to look, I always try to put, you know, put on the other shoe and try to look at it from a different perspective. But, you know, being, you know, when you come into an organization,

being an 18, 19-year-old kid, you know being you know when you come into an organization being an 18 19 year old kid you know just basically i mean obviously you know whether you're underperforming or not i mean uh you know being being bullied is never never a great thing and uh you know you you face a lot of self uh self-doubt and um you know you start to criticize yourself in a way and if you don't have that you know determination and that pride um you know and that commitment to try to end that mental toughness to try to move forward then you know it's probably not looking good for you in in the book you you you stood up to a bully and you pretty much ended the bully in Babcock when you and Bozak confronted him on what he did to Mitch Marner with the list. And that was the second, when I read your book, that's the second I knew Babcock was done.

Yeah, I mean, that was a slippery situation for sure. And I think, you know, Babs understood he, he, he'd made a mistake and, you know, apologize for it afterwards, but nonetheless, the kind of damage was done. But, you know,

you know, for me, honestly, personally, you know, I, everyone kind of harps on Babs and likes to get on him, but,

you know, I really do, you know, think he was a good coach and he made me a better player and kind of, you know think he was a good coach and he made me a better player and kind of um you know made me understand things about the game that maybe i wouldn't have under a different um you know coach so you know as you know whatever three four years there i you know he gave me the assignment to um challenge the other team's top lines every single night and i thrived off of it and uh you know i became a lot

more you know attention detailed and attention uh detail oriented uh because of him i mean he certainly went um you know he went about things sometimes the wrong way but you know for me i i actually always had a good good relationship with babs in the, you also go out of your way to speak very highly of Mitch Marner. You describe him as entertaining, a fun personality guy, a guy that everybody would want. Like, when you talk about his sense of humor and how funny and entertaining he is,

like, the Leaf fans don't see that side of him. They don't get that perception of the way you describe him in your book and the way he's perceived out here in the market. And I'm just wondering, is that because he's felt over the years much like what you've gone through? Yeah, I mean, of course. I don't think he's going to act the same in front of a camera

or 10 cameras as he would, you know, sitting in my living room. So I think, you know, it's a bit of a touchy subject because, I mean, you know, the fans obviously have to pick somebody to get on and it's always going to be the guys making the most money. So, you know, that's always things I talked about in the book, you know, that I saw happen to Dion and Phil. It was always, they're kind of the scapegoats to anything that went wrong. But I've known Mitch for a long time, and I've watched him play for a long time. And he's, you know, he's a guy that I take on my team any day of the week. And underappreciated here?

Still in your eyes, maybe? Absolutely. Absolutely. He's, you know, he's the heart and soul of that team without mitch i think uh you know things wouldn't wouldn't uh be as be as good i gotta ask how fast does it go nas because i'm looking at your hockey db here and like you know i've been a leaf fan my whole life i remember when you're drafted i was excited about you being drafted now look back in your first year is i played one game in 09 and then 2010, 2011.

And that just feels like yesterday. Like how fast does it go, man? That's the thing. It flies by, man. It feels like the older you get, the faster it goes too. And, you know, I was always the guy like, you know, when I was young, I'd have the veterans be like, you know, hey, man, enjoy it. Yeah, it goes by fast. And it's a cliche that couldn couldn't be more more correct and

i was always like ah man i got like i got years left i'm good don't worry about me like you know i'm 21 i'm good so uh you know looking back on it now just the relationships i've made and the people i've met and just a lot of gratitude going through this book and reflecting on my career thus far and lots left still to tell. But, you know, very happy with where I am today in my career and very thankful I even have the opportunity to do what I love to do every single day. So now you're the old guy telling them to like, oh, take, you know, you better take it and enjoy it.

It's going fast. Exactly. That's hockey. It's a revolving door. It's going fast. Exactly. That's hockey. It's a revolving door. It's an ongoing circle. You do paint an amazing picture of external and internal pressures of playing in this market. We just had a conversation earlier, Naz,

in terms of is it an easier place to play or the hardest place to play in this market because as Mitch has alluded to and this is a guy that's only won one round and we haven't seen a Stanley Cup since 1967 but he says you get treated like a god here and you do and I've lived it myself but is it is it the hardest place to play in the league or the easiest at times? Oh, it cannot be the easiest. It's far from easy. Let's just put it that way. But, you know, Mitch is right, though.

You know, if you embrace it and you want to step up to the plate and you want to step up to the challenge and you're winning games and, you know, putting everything you got in every single game, fans notice that. They acknowledge it like we spoke before. And when you're getting W's, there's no better place to play without a doubt. But, you know, if you're not and you underperform, you're going to hear about it and you're gonna hear about it from you know 100 people so it's uh you know it goes both ways but you know uh you always got to take it with a grain of salt and there was always something that i embraced it's funny that just to think about that playing here and how just how hard how easy it can be i can only imagine i gotta ask you this

is a dumbo question here but how great did it feel to score an overtime winner in a Stanley Cup playoff game? How'd that feel? That was, I mean, that's gotta be a highlight of my career, for sure. That's something that, you know, I'll never forget. And,

you know, for it to be in a Stanley Cup final in an overtime game. And they didn't know it went in. And obviously the controversy that comes with it, it's you know, for it to be in a Stanley Cup final in an overtime game. And they didn't know it went in. They didn't know it went in. You know, that's, and obviously the controversy that comes with it, it's just, you know, that was just a perfect storm all in one, you know, with one hand after 13 days after surgery, when I was supposed to be out eight or nine weeks, you know,

the doctor said, Hey, I don't think you're coming back. I said, no, no, I don't, i don't think you're coming back i said no no i don't i don't think you're right so didn't really take much medical advice at that point i was coming back regardless you you mentioned a couple of movies in your book that you you referenced to um one that you didn't that i often do is called sliding doors i don't know if you've ever heard of it but it's a guy that jumps on a subway and how his life changes if he makes the subway and the doors don't close or if they

do close on him. And it takes you both sides of it. And I'm just wondering your sliding doors moment as a Toronto Maple Leaf and where it was. And of course, somehow, some way, whatever happened to you as a Leaf led you to a Stanley Cup.

And I know you'll never change that for a million years. But was there a sliding door moment for you as a Leaf, either a suspension or, you know, you talk about the bender you went out the night before and then President Brendan Shannon had to suspend you for three games do you do you look back and say yeah that's that's when it ended for me here in toronto um i mean obviously the the suspensions didn't help right that was kind of the last straw and um you know that that was unfortunate how it ended but you know it, any young player will tell you this.

I mean, towards the end of their career or midway through their career, you know, it's a learning process. Playing in the NHL, you know, you can't assume that some 19-, 20-year-old kid is just going to come in the league and know the ropes right away. You know, they learn from veteran players. They learn from experience. And that's how they, you know, adapt and adjust to that situation. So, I mean, for me, obviously the end of my tenure was,

you know, the playoff suspension, but, you know, up until that point, I felt like I always brought my best in the playoffs. Obviously, I regret some of those things that happened, but, you know, it's made me who I am today, faced a lot of heat for it, but, you know, it's made me who I am today. Faced a lot of heat for it. And, you know, I was accountable for every single thing that happened. And, you know, I wish it was different. But, you know, I was I've been a guy that's, you know, always, you know, perform, you know, better under pressure and better in the playoffs. And, you know, I look to continue that. One more reference for me and I'll let you go, I promise.

And that was the Bull Durham one, where there was a Leaf coach or a manager, I don't know who, but wanted you to watch Bull Durham because of the lessons of a veteran and a young kid. And you refused to watch that movie out of spite, correct? That is factual. That's a movie that's been boycotted

for the rest of my life. I mean, I've heard it's an absolute tremendous flick. I've heard nothing but great things but you'll never see me watch that movie. Care to share who recommended it to you? What movie critic on the leaves?

Nope. You're not getting me there, Kip. No. But I will tell you that they did in the book I had mentioned, they read me a list of first round busts before they gave me that movie recommendation. So you tell me how you'd feel. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Probably a crappy movie recommendation. So you tell me how you'd feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Probably a crappy movie anyway. For sure. And the other one I got a kick out of it was that, was it Babcock and Lou in your living room? Yeah, and Mark Hunter, I believe. And Mark Hunter.

All three of them were there, just cozy on my sofa. And trying to figure out what to feed them or give them as a... Oh, my God, what a nice cat hair, too. of them were there just cozy on my sofa trying to figure out what to feed them or give them as uh i mean that was that was my mom's duty she was dialed in that oh thank god so she was buzzing in the kitchen making them whatever they needed so my uh the late brian murray head coach of the washington capitals came and met my mom and dad and my mom wanted to give her give them like these greek cookies they're called kuda biethes okay and they and my mom wanted to give her give them like these Greek cookies they're called kouda biedes

easy for you to say pal it's all white sugar and I'm like ma you give him that he's gonna look like he just snorted a pound of cocaine get that cookie away from him hey man it's a cultural thing people come over

you're not gonna leave with an empty stomach. Let's just put it that way. Hey, listen, really appreciate your candor on our show today in your book. It's going to be a top seller. We know that. And it's one of many coming because you got another book in you. Like, you got a long way to go here. Hey, maybe a movie, Kipper. Who knows? Who's playing you? You got it book in you. You got a long way to go here. Maybe a movie, Kipper.

Who knows? Who's playing you? You got it picked up? Who plays Nas? I got to do some research. All right, pal. We really appreciate it. Good luck the rest of the season, okay?

Thanks for having me. Thanks, Nas. That's Nas Kadri. And the book is called Dreamer, My Life on the Edge, an inside look at the challenges of being an NHL player, especially one here in Toronto. Yeah, that was awesome to talk to him. Real thrill.

I will say that I was a staunch defender of him and everything that happened here. And, you know, he had his issues. He was a kid coming into toronto all the you know money all the everything but trading him was one of the worst trades i was and i in history i said it at the time i'll say it now i just think about what they would look like with him as a you know we would have to pay him they would have to figure it out i understand maybe he's not here still but even for those two years that he's in colorado he's here they have a better chance of winning the

cup and he goes there and he does win the cup so just uh i'm reading the book and the only thing i can ever do when i read stories like this is just envision where i was at his age and where he got challenged i would have just curled up i would have said like whatever you want i'll do yep and he was not like that. That's not the way he grew up. It goes into the first story about Brian Burke wanting him to live with a Billet family out in Oakdale or Oakville. Oakville, yeah. And he had already had a place downtown.

And he went out there for like five minutes and then he's back in his apartment uh in his condo downtown and i'm like that's some big stones right there because someone caught him in this building it's like you shouldn't be here and he goes yeah i'm here and then brian burke calls him in the office the next day and brian burke kind of waves the white flag and says just show up and play hard that's all i care about And he got to live downtown. And I'm sitting there going, in my day, you could have billeted me with the Charles Manson family and I would have lived there. Yeah, really.

No, that's funny. I'm like, whatever you want. Just let me play. And it's just, it's a different world with these kids now. And some of it's good, some of it you know can can still hurt a guy yep but you find that fine line and the fine line led this guy to a stanley cup his names on the stanley cup should have been a leaf for life and should have won the cup here that's the last thing i'll say for another story yeah all right is our hour up already what an hour way to

go sammy thanks bud doing a great job. Oh, I appreciate that. Alright, we're going to take a quick break. When we return, it's Off the Rails Friday. Doug McClain, head coach, also an author of Draft Day. How teams pick winners. Coming up next, plenty more to go here.

Hall of Fame weekend on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Music