Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Matthews Seeks Treatment in Munich

Episode Date: November 19, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee check in on Auston Matthews with the news that he's seeing a specialist in Munich. They speculate what may be ailing the captain, the idea of placing him on LTIR til the playoffs and how it'll impact his availability for the 4 Nations Face-Off. Then, they look at David Kämpf going on IR, Fraser Minten getting called up and whether the Leafs should move Mitch Marner to centre. Later, former scout Jason Bukala (29:27) weighs in on potential answers down the middle without Matthews or Kämpf, what to expect out of Minten, Nikita Grebyonkin's AHL progress and Leafs prospects with trade value.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

all right kitty up we're right back at it 24 hours later nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee derek brandeo and jake the Snake Schultz all with you for the next two hours. It just feels like five minutes ago we were talking about Mitch Marner. We sure did. I got to tell you something. Quite the reaction out there. Yeah. Like, I know it seems to be like a real sensitive discussion

amongst Leaf Nation. It does. But did we take it to another level yesterday? We may have given it a little bit of rocket fuel. Because I got a few people saying, I get your point of view. And I got a few people telling me, you're on drugs. Yeah. I also was told that I am the dumbest person in the world and also that

people agree so that's back on drugs yes so no no no no no no none of that none of that none of that so that's you know we uh i think that's how you know that we found uh we found the tipping point of that we found uh we found the topic of discussion yeah week. That's the chat at the bar. That's for sure. You know, I had been mentioning earlier in the season that no one had been talking about the Mariner conversation. That we, you know, had been quiet. We made it unquiet, I think.

That's great. We got the people going a little bit. I would say I got more messages about that segment of radio than my whole life doing this. Yeah, that was... Yeah. And it can be quiet for a little while, but it's not going anywhere.

No. It's there, and it will remain there until either he signs or he walks out the door July 1st. As you said in our conversation earlier today, that's not the last time we're going to talk about that. No. And this is what's perfect about it this is why it's an incredible sports talk radio topic because the end off of my poll

yesterday with the three options of let's just sign them let's see playoffs let them walk 45 percent for just sign them 45 percent for let's see playoffs 10 percent for let them walk wow so it's like all in balance like that's why there's people on both sides of it it's the perfect debate which i'm sure we'll have again well wherever you're watching and listening we're glad you're aboard sportsnet 590 the fans sportsnet 360 or sportsnet plus uh no marner talk to start off although we technically we did but The hottest topic right now, Austin Matthews, Elliot Friedman on sportsnet.ca

had the story. Sammy, you have been very clear that you have not liked this from day one. Yes. And I think the news out there that he is in Germany, Munich, Germany, receiving treatment from a doctor he's worked with in the past is not making you feel real good right now.

Let's just listen to Brad Treliving's update on Austin Matthews. It's about a minute and 11 clip here, so bear with him. But this is the update on Austin Matthews from Brad Treliving. Austin, an update on Austin. We haven't been trying to be cryptic with all this stuff. You know, we've been calling him day to day because that's what he's been. He has, you know, we've looked at the schedule here, and what we're trying to do is use this week to hopefully get this thing behind him.

As part of that, he and our doc foreman went over to Germany to see a dock that he's used in the past. More as a general checkup, but also to get some work done on his thing. It's not alarming. It was something we've been discussing, knowing that he's going to be getting this week. But we're hopeful that once we get through the week here, he'll be back up and skating, and his return to play would be after that. So, again, nothing new.

There's been no setbacks. Everything's been actually going quite well. We're just trying to use the days that we've got here with less games being played to just try to get this behind us. See, Sammy, there's nothing to worry sammy there's nothing to worry about worry about nothing what is who have a coffee what is this put your feet up what is this what are we doing you tell me why why why i just he's flying he's taking an intercontinental flight cross an ocean because it's all fine why are they lying

to us it's the most infuriating thing ever it's more of a general check oh it's a general check up with dr stem cell like what's going on here uh everything's great this is just yeah it's it is it's it's concerned it's now gone from day to day to flying to Germany. Stop lying. It is rather interesting that he left Sunday morning, caught a commercial flight. Is that right? A commercial flight? Really? And no one saw him?

And nothing until Tuesday. Yeah. this commercial flight really and no one saw and no and and nothing till tuesday yeah nothing so how did they get between sunday morning and tuesday when it when it came out you know i don't know how they pulled that off you know congratulations on that little bit of uh you know secrecy but you know i would say that when there's not a human on your continent that can deal with the issue well enough you're getting into real problems and concerns uh the idea that it's someone he's seen before does make me think back it's a back. Yeah.

It's spasms. It's not healing. It's not getting to the place that he needs to go. And, yeah, maybe you go back to somewhere that might have helped you in the past. If that's Germany, that's Germany. Now, he was in Germany this summer, was he not? With Conor McDavid? I don't know.

Was he? Not sure. Weren't they on the ice together? Yeah, I don't know if that was in Germany, was it? I would say. Yeah, I think it was. Okay. The thing that stands out to me is, let's say you're on a plane and all those masks

drop from up above. The type of thing you hear is like nobody panic it's okay everything's fine just you know stay calm that very much is the message here where it feels like the masks have dropped and the team is like nothing to see here everyone remain calm it's going to be fine i would say we are now at the point where it's weeks into it you're going to germany we're getting into like ah this could be a problem this could be a you know someone text me was it might have even been you do we have austin kucherov now can we dress this ltir him and dress him in april maybe we can you know trade for crosby and get him uh you know get austin back for playoffs i just i think that the way that you've handled this, and it just feels like Austin's representation has like a pistol

in the back of Brad Trillian being like, say it's fine. Say it's fine. Say it's all fine. He's like, it is fine. It's fine. If you had just been more forthright from the start, that it's a longer-term thing that he's going to miss a little bit a while, but to have the coach go out in front of everybody and be like, it's a day-term thing, that he's going to miss a little bit of while. But to have the coach go out in front of everybody and be like,

it's a day-to-day thing. We'll see you after the weekend. We'll see you after the thing. But I do believe that that could be true. I don't. I don't. I don't believe it. And now I'm at the point where he's taken an eight-hour flight to go see somebody.

I'm past the point of believing it. I don't believe you. I don't believe you. And if it is a bad back or a stiff back like you can wake up eventually one day and it can be better yeah so i'm with you that needs a new mattress uh when they say day to day they they wait for austin to come to them and say it's no longer an issue. And Austin didn't do that.

So, like, does it turn into something that can be alleviated with some treatment, muscle-related, disc-related? Yeah. It can, yeah. Well, that's the thing. It can end up being something a lot more serious, a lot more but they don't know they don't know he's not a guy who doesn't want to play you look at his games played over the years he wants to play and so the concern i agree kip is that you know you talk about discs and all this kind of stuff that it isn't getting better

and we don't know we're just you know throwing stuff at the wall here but that it isn't getting better you're going to see someone who apparently can do some something that can't be done here so all of a sudden it's that's why i would say this has been elevated but they did set a pretty close deadline for when they expect him to skate and play so we're gonna very quickly have an answer for just how serious this is. Yeah, like they mentioned the potential of Sunday. As, you know, flight to Germany to see a specialist and playing Sunday don't seem to be in the same conversation. No, that is very strange to me. Very strange.

You know, to see a specialist might play Sunday. He said maybe Sunday and then maybe we'll look at the weekend against the Panthers or whatever. I'd say it's highly unlikely as well. I bet anything he's not playing Sunday. No. There's no chance he's playing Sunday. No.

And if he is, then hey, I mean. Good on the doctor. Whatever magic he's got. Can he go see Ovi's doctor? That guy can. Forget that. Like, three of us should get over there. Yeah.

I could use some straightening out. No kidding. Yeah. I think it's going to build up another interesting conversation i don't know if you guys have thought of this but there is a what both of you guys sort of think is a meaningless hockey tournament in the middle of this hockey season the four nations face off which he is the face of the probably the favorite team in the tournament. And it's like, what sort of impact is this going to have where he desperately wants to play in that probably.

There hasn't been a best on best thing. The Leafs, you know, you're flying to Germany, you're missing a month of the season, you've got a whatever issue that's clearly serious enough for this. Well, let's just say right now now that spot's in jeopardy for sure how could it not be like if he's fighting through something and then goes and plays there leaf fans are gonna be livid we have had years and i think not good we all sat here at the end of last season watching the chase for 70 goals let's not mince words he played his hard out those last

two games of the year which were not all that meaningful trying to get 70 that was some of my least favorite moments and maybe you know the boards on that one play you know my point kip is that least fans don't want to see the pursuit of something else that doesn't matter get in the way of what is supposed to be the greater goal here for this team. And we have arguably the biggest Leaf fan ever in the history of Leafs. You. Me? Yeah.

I don't know about that, but I mean, I'm up there. Okay, you're up there. I'm in the top million for sure. And you're telling me his 69 goals was one of your least favorite moments. The chase. The chase. The chase. The chase was a joke.

How sad is that? Well, it was the way it was handled. It least favorite moments. The chase. The chase. The chase. The chase was a joke. How sad is that? Well, it was the way it was handled. It was a joke. I think, you know, for someone who pays as close attention as all of us, you know, we know that playoffs were all that mattered. And that's kind of was the vibe at the time. So I think it's going to be really interesting to see,

first of all, how long it takes for him to get back here, how he's playing, and what they do with that four nations face up because like they're naming teams december 2nd like it's in i i just i hope that he doesn't they're gonna name them of course they're naming them yeah but i'm just hoping and then you've actually been named hasn't yeah he's one of the guys. So anyways, I'm not thrilled today. Not thrilled. Equally distressing, David Kampf is here. Oh, yeah. Yeah, on the IR. Yeah, on the IR.

Also, secretive. Also, although this one seems to be lower body. Lower body. And so it seems not like an emergency. He may play Sunday. Let's get thoughts on Kippers Clippers with Craig Bruby on David Kempf and Minton now. Yeah, no, he's done a great job for us with penalty kill and situations.

Yeah, we'll miss him. Minton's up here, though. You know, smart player. You know, he was playing well in the minors and um you know i think he's he's the right guy up here right now the sense is it's nothing specific happened the other night with camp yeah with camp oh that's great well i'm just saying it's it sounds like more kind of an ongoing thing that he's been battling.

That's so much worse. When's his flight to Czechia? No, no, no. We'll find out about it midweek out of the blue, yeah. But like I said, it's also been a very hard camp. And it's like some wear and tear. I see where you're going. Yeah, sure.

You know what's interesting? Some of them are paying a price right now because Craig Berube has leaned on him from day one. This is what everyone wanted. In a programmer system that was not accustomed for that type. So there have been a few casualties. It's interesting. Like Matthews, though, his like hits per game and takeaways in the early part of the season were way, way down right away. Like I don't think he was, I don't know how early or how long it's been bothering him for, but certainly seems coming out of camp that he was.

Yeah. Do they measure those in practice too? Because I heard, you know, a lot of one-on-one drills and a lot of physical activity. A little puck in the corner down low for a little two-on-two drills and a lot of uh a lot of physical uh activity in the corner down low for a little two-on-two that's that's coming though hey all the analytics and practice well they wear they have stuff they do yeah you're right those sports bras and they measure heart rates and supposed to be able to tell that who is on the verge of injury and who's not able to push with as much force they're they're measuring these guys anywhere else you want to go

you guys uh it's a minton's interesting to me because he did not get uh a full camp because of the injury he comes back kind of from everything you hear they've picked up where he kind of left off a little bit you think they're real happy with him? Yeah, there's no question that he would not be up here if they were not really happy with him. So there is a sense that the Leafs are looking or shopping or at least projecting that they will need a centerman down the road. Could this guy be an answer possibly uh i'm gonna go ahead and give you my playoff answer which is no and i have seen fraser minton full disclosure plays zero minutes

of hockey this year but he would have to be so good for me to think that the leafs could have a rookie center in their bottom six handling big minutes finishing checks killing penalties i just am i out over my skis on that one is it am i going too far uh the way the league's built right now i don't think you're way off on your skis i think i agree with you in the it's not probable yeah but give me a five percent chance about that? I get the thought that, like, we got to know for sure what we have internally before we start looking on the outside. You know, the NHL slows down a little bit into the season. Like, the first 10 games, everyone shot out of a cannon,

trying to impress their coach. All of a sudden, people start to get hurt. Things settle in. And the league slows a little. And you have stretches of plays where guys like McMahon score seven times in five games, and Holmberg has a— It happens. It wouldn't shock me to see Minton have a run of games

in the next month or two where you're like, whoo, they have something here. They have a future player. This is a great player. I'm skeptical that he's the end-of-year solution. Not saying he's not a solution for them. just saying i'm skeptical he's a playoff performer for them this year once that calendar gets past mid-april the game's getting a little heavier in the first round of playoffs and you start wearing so i saw this tweet from kyle cushman who does some marley's coverage said

that frasier minute is one is five on five minutes six-2 and has a Marley's high of 4.25 shots per game. He's been really good coming back from injury and deserved recall. So he's been good. That's great. He's been playing well at the Marley's. Leading in shots per game. Yeah. Wonderful. In about 15 minutes, we're going to be joined by Jason Bukala. Of course, does a terrific job

on our show. He's pro hockey group and sports analyst, former NHL scout. He's going to give us his rundown of Fraser Minton and where he fits in maybe short-term or potentially long-term as well. Now, not to rehash our Mitch Marner conversation from yesterday because, you know, I'm still catching my breath. Let's just do it in a different light today.

Okay. So you've heard me over a long stretch of time. Yeah. About how I thought Mitch could easily become a centerman. Yeah. And much like all my takes on Mitch Marner, you guys roll your eyes. No, it's not true. I agree on this one.

I agree too. Run the tape. Did you? I agree that he plays center. I don't even know anymore. I agree too. Run the tape. Did you? I agree that he was on it. I don't even know anymore. I can't even keep track. So our boy Sammy sends a note to Luke Fox. I texted our boy Luke.

And you said, get on this because this conversation does not disappear on our show unless we get more from it. And I will say, this is like, you know know i get a lot of dms from people the marner center conversation is a very popular dm that i get a lot and fans always talk about like it's a want to see it it's a very hot topic in least nation with him especially with their center debt so our boy luke asked him would you like to hear the clip i would love to hear it okay clip uh three seriously if at all have you thought thought about trying Mitch Marner at center? I talked to Mitch the other day about it, actually. He said, no problem, whatever you want.

He's smart enough for sure. Yeah, I know he's played some D here, too, in the past. So I think he can play all positions. But, no, it's definitely an option if we need it. You know, I think he's a guy that can go in there and, you know, understand the positioning and what to do. You know, I guess, you know, you have to worry about face-offs a little bit and things like that.

But he's definitely a guy that we can use there for sure. Huh. I got to think if Austin's out for a prolonged period of time like why not why not like you got tavaris you got still max why not throw mitch in the middle on a few different looks listen go ahead and run tavaras matthews and uh sorry marner and neil yes uh some non-leafs breaking news. I thought so. But the Boston Bruins announced just now that Jim Montgomery has been fired

and Joe Sacco will assume the interim head coaching duties. So there you go. So an Atlantic Division rival, feeling the heat of their bad start, has fired their head coach. There you go. Okay, we'll pick up on the Boston Bruins a little later on in the show. National hour. Yeah.

But in the meantime, where would you have him slotted? Well, I would like to see, I want to see Nylander play center too. Has he played center in a game yet? Like all this preseason hype? Like have they given him a game? So I'd like to see both of them have some run,

have some opportunity to play center and see if one of them takes to it. Now, we don't worry about Mitch Marner in in the d zone positioning effort any of those he looks like a centerman anyways most often than not yeah absolutely but you know the concerns are twofold is battling big centers low but also face-offs as he mentioned he's won one of his seven draws this year and he's 44 career how many is he taken is it it's got to be 50 or something over the course of a career wouldn't you think yeah but you know i look down the center depth without awesome matthews and david camp and david camp i'm like wow he's probably the second best

center on this team he for sure he like who's it's domey is second line center it's like you're not going to slot marner in there he He's going to be immediately better. I feel 10 times better about Marner at center in the D zone over Max Domi. Yeah, and you slide Domi out to the wing and you feel better about it. So I don't know. Now that it's been asked and now that it's kind of a conversation, I bet we see it. And he's got more of the center.

Like you've always talked about. He's got more of the center skill set than Nylander does, so just do it. I've seldom seen a team that could have their essentially two best players play the positions but act

like each other once the puck's dropped, meaning that Austin looks every bit of a scoring winger i see and mitch looks every bit of a playmaking centerman once the puck is dropped i mean austin is one of the best defensive centers in the nhl like full stop no wavering on that he was it was him barkov and stall finalist last year for the Selke Trophy. I would hear that conversation more in the offensive zone.

In the offensive zone, I think Mitch is much more the center than Austin is because he passes more to Austin. He defers more to Austin, that kind of thing. But I think they're both really good defensively. To be fair, you're right. Yeah, he's good. Offensively, it's the playmaking of Mitch and then the shooting of Austin. But actually, I believe that once the pucks drop, there's no such thing as a typical left

wing or center mid. It's fill the lanes. And, you know, most often than not, first guy back plays low. And Mitch is usually that guy. He's usually the third man high it's not austin then let me ask if they're not trying to be uh you know sarcastic then why then why put him at center why risk him losing draws why like if he's just as good already defensively as a winger yeah i think that's that's a fair point. Then just why? If he's already doing it? I don't know. Just to say he did it?

I don't know. Could Austin's back be potentially bothering him because of, you know? Draws? Draws, wear and tear draws or, you know? I mean, I'm just speculating here, but, you know, if he comes back, maybe you start him on the wing. But if he's a center, he's going to be making 16 mil. I mean, he's not coming back.

If he's coming back, Matthews, and he can only play wing and not take draws, he should not come back. Yeah. You know what I mean? I think for once, the Leafs should be the biggest Golden Knights. And, like, you know, he comes back, he plays. Buddy, it's November 19th. Yeah, come back.

I'm not. Come back, play for a month. Say your back's still bugging you. Take the rest of the year off. Get perfect. I don't hate the idea of getting to the end of February, having a chat with Tavares and Matthews and saying, how's everyone doing?

How's the back feeling? Got to go to Germany again? Yeah. It was beautiful at Christmastime. Yeah. Let's see if we can add something. It seemed to be the last team to try any of that to really go for it like wow and they're gonna close this loophole like there's

already clamoring about if the leafs did it gary's with his swat team kicking down the door the four performance centers we're getting you like if the leafs did that boy if the leafs free livings like it's over if the leafs did the the vegas move this year yeah in the new cba closed done immediately and there's no question anyway could have a stanley cup by then yeah perfect and i i like the idea i heard brian burke the other day talk about how but and someone else is suggesting that it's fine to exceed the salary cap in playoffs, but you can't dress an 18-man roster, 18 skaters, two goalies, 20-man roster that exceeds the salary cap. That in itself is silly, right?

Like, you shouldn't be able to have $100 million worth of players that you can dress at once. But when you can, do it. What do you have on Berube talking about Mitch and Austin together? It was just something interesting that they were talking about him shooting more and then this was one of the follow-ups one of the questions and I thought it was an interesting clip that kind of is in our wheelhouse. So

clip four please. It could be I think you know anybody who plays with Austin is probably looking for him a little bit more than normal and probably too much at times you know in my opinion but you know he's looking for jt2 who's the score right so um in the end you know you make plays that are there and when you have opportunities in good areas to shoot you should shoot to me when matthews comes back

they don't play together. I've just seen too much good from Mitch without him. We've done that, right? Yeah. I mean, it's one of the ways they've tried to change things up. I guess. You like Austin and Willie? No, I don't. I just think they should be on three lines.

I really do. You know, one strange thing is that with Matthews out, Marner's shots have not gone up at all. In fact, gone down and near the bottom of the team. Six shots, more at 5-on-5 than Pacioretty this season, who has 130 fewer minutes. That's a Seagull thing. Really?

So, you know, he's obviously producing. He's doing it different ways, but I don't know. I think you could have him on three lines, and everyone would be just fine. And the team's probably better for it. But would Neyland be playing third line center? Or in your ideal world? Yeah, I guess.

I guess that's the option. But, I mean, it's like third line is what? These guys get thrown out there. Max and Willie. Either Max is on the wing with Willie or vice versa. You're right. And that's like kind of a middle six and you interchange them as you need. But, all right. We should. Hold on like kind of a middle six and you interchange them as you need, but alright. We should

hold on. I got a little read for you guys. Second day in a row, I'm going to try to nail this, so please bear with me, okay? Who wants to win a bunch of cash while doing the best thing this holiday season? It's Sportsnet 590 to Fans 50-50

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We'll take a quick break when we return Jason Bukala. And then at the top of the hour, it's Tuesday, Steve Vallecat, analyst with the New York Rangers on MSG and CEO of ClearSight Analytics. That's what he does for me and JB, clears our sight. Yeah, and he does our job. Does our job. More when we return

to Real Kipper and Born. Hey, it's Ailish Forfar. And I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night.

It's the Fan Pre Game. 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. Here's ready. Now we're debating. Oh my God. Oh my God. get your podcasts. You guys ready?

No, we're debating. Oh my god. What are you guys debating? We're debating whether if Boston got one more point last year and Florida played Toronto in the first round and swept Toronto, if they would have blown up the court. Wow. That's what we're doing.

You guys are the master debaters, that's for Wow. That's what we're doing the breaks. You guys are the master debaters, that's for sure. All right. Let's go to Jason Buchla, pro hockey group, sports set.

Former NHL scout. Give us all the goods now that, first of all, you ever been to Germany before for anything? Yeah, just once or twice. What were you getting fixed?

I wasn't getting anything fixed, but after a few scouting extravaganzas over there, I probably needed to get fixed up a little bit if you get my drift. So I've been there. A couple of Octoberfests. So a couple of, yeah. Lots of Octoberfests year-round over there, unfortunately. Listen, between Matthews and David Kempf not in the lineup,

like plenty of opportunity down the middle of the ice for players to state their claim as a centerman right now. Yeah, I agree. I mean, Minton's going to get a chance here. Nice little five-game set in the american league you know two goals three assists used in all situations really like them to be honest with you guys one of the things i noticed when i broke down his segment was how much quicker he is in small areas so like on the penalty kill if he's working up top and he's got to pounce on the half wall he's got an extra little bit of a dart to him there and he's getting there quicker.

So it's not just like step out and use your reach. It's, it's actually stepping out and, and fronting it, which is obviously really beneficial because I don't think he's a three at his ceiling. So he's going to have to do really good things defensively for me. And I'll be curious to see what he does in the face off thought when he gets the opportunity, Steve's can play in the middle too, if they want to insert him into, into the lineup.

Steve's is another interesting guy that I think has got a lot of upside and can be a Swiss army knife for the group. So yeah, there's, there's some opportunity there and it's going to be interesting to see if they can continue this trend. I wrote, I read something today about maybe moving Marner to the middle, but please do not split up that line.

I mean, Tavares, Marner, McMahon, that's going. And I don't want to see that broken up right now. So what's the long-term forecast for Minton to be a contributor? We kind of opened our show with the question, could he be a playoff player for the Leafs this season? Yeah, I know that sounds a little desperate, but they are a little desperate. Yeah.

Ideally not, I would say. You know, ideally not. Not for where they want to go as a team, like what their aspirations are. But depending on where they're going with their cap, I really like Dewar. I think Dewar can bring some energy. He gets to the hard areas, plays with pace, and gets involved.

That might open up, if camp is healthy or somebody else is healthy, some movement there where you can move a guy out and perhaps upgrade in the middle of the ice for me. But long term, you remember when Nize arrived on the scene from Minnesota a couple years ago, University of Minnesota. I don't even know if Minton can do that offensively, but he can certainly, he's got the brain and the body to play in the bottom of the lineup.

I'll put it to you that way. It's just when you're talking about a team that has to compete for the Stanley Cup or even think that they can win it, it is rolling the dice with these kids, if not giving them the opportunity. It's one thing to give them an opportunity between November and the trade deadline, but it's another one to say, yeah, we're going to go with them. And then it lends towards finding help from the outside correct absolutely absolutely you know you look at i know you brought it up kipper a couple weeks ago

the brock nelson type of uh a player like that's the ultimate at six million dollars how do you make it fit you know the islanders are in the mix but the metro is tough and i don't know what's going to happen as things playing out there in the wild card but you know he's in his last year you know how lou is on the island with his guys though he likes to extend them and keep them forever it seems he's he's got but but what i'm saying to you is that's the kind of player that i'm interested in you know god like i can i even throw a nasm cadre into the mix you know just as a talking point here the the money is too much, but you understand where I'm going with it.

So it's going to be too heavy a lift. Right now, the Minton's going to get a taste. Five-game sample in the American League is a nice little start, but it's a segment. That's all it is. So I'm not getting too high or too low. Let's see how he does when he arrives. But long-term term after christmas everybody

knows january february march how hard the games get and this team is going to be jockeying to maintain home ice advantage i think in the first round in the atlantic that's my guess and uh we'll just see how it all planes out but i'm not counting on these younger guys to be the difference makers come april uh just before we move on and talk about some other guys around the league couple of marley's questions for you have you got any thoughts on nikita grabenkin or marshall refi who are kind of two names that stood out for me watching training camp this year grabenkin's been really good for me yeah so steve's grabenkin and uh uh and uh uh street steve's rebeccan and minton were playing together quite a bit lately and he's been you remember him in training camp

he's surprised with a little bit of pushback and uh you know drop the flippers in one night he's not going to do that but he was getting involved uh he's been up to task he's he's right at the top of the table there scoring wise with the marlies he's involved he's on the plus side of the ledger i really like how his trajectory is planning out then he'd be the next guy up kind of for me to be honest with you if a winger went down or or if um or if they wanted to sneak somebody through waivers for for an example um refi you know he's another guy that uh for me personally it's a nice to have not a need to have as a team uh planes out in the back half of the season perhaps there's some value there outside the organization maybe it's a depth uh at if you're gonna go on a long

run in playoffs you're gonna need a lot of depth at that position obviously you're going to usually extend the cup 10 contending teams go eight deep defenseman wise come playoff time his style of play not sure that that's exactly a great fit but that's just to be determined we'll see how it goes we're talking to Jason Bukala former NHL scout now pro hockey group and analyst for Sportsnet. So, Books, it didn't seem that far ago we were talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs and we're also mentioning that the cupboards are fairly empty. And where are we today with some of the names that you mentioned and the stocking up? Well, it's still relatively empty like they don't have a a huge selection of guys to on recall right now but the good news is that the ones that they do have the mintons the

grebeckians says i screw up his name here um these guys are their trajectory is positive so they're buying in on the player development model. So when they were delivered to player development, whatever the message was and whatever's going on, they're buying in. That's a real positive. On the back end, though, Kipper, you know, it's something. They're stockpiled on the top end right now. Like, I don't know what's going to happen with Hakim Pai. He looks like he can skate, but I'm not so sure long term.

You know, we'll see what happens there. Obviously, they've got some veteran guys that they might be able to sneak around, up and down that is, from the minors. They're thin on the back end as well. Cowan's on a run. Cowan's 51 games deep in the CHL. He's a week away from

breaking the all-time scoring, consecutive game scoring. The Joe DiMaggio, if you will, of consecutive scoring at the CHL level how many games 51 games with a point 51 straight games yeah Lord 54 54 is the record I think he breaks it at 55 something like that so he's a week and a half away from that that's positive as well um Hildeby's a nice story right down in the minors. But we're talking about four or five guys. It's going to take some time here for Tree and his group to restock the coverage there.

But that's not where we are right now. We're not in that cycle. We've got to obviously acquire some draft capital when we can to take a swing at the plate. But they're in win-now mode, which is, you know, they're not relying on that underbelly so much. But it certainly would be nice to have more than a couple of choices, obviously. Yeah, absolutely. And it would be nice for the prospects that are on the team,

like a Robertson type of guy, to chip in a little bit. Well, that ship has sailed for me, guys. I'm sure you guys, I haven't, you know, it's enough already. I like the energy. I like to compete. It's such a delicate, it's enough already. I like the energy. I like to compete. It's such a delicate, it's a tight rope. Like his value, remember we talked about end of summer, no value, no leverage for contract.

And then you get into the preseason, great preseason, but it's preseason games. Some night there's eight or nine guys on your opponent. You have to address a minimum of eight bets in a game, whatever that's worth. So he goes off in the preseason, but now it's a depressed value all over again. What are you going to do with that? Just for the record,

I only ask you about stocking the cupboards, not as help coming up, but potential trade pieces. Who can we unload for value we're stripping we're selling the copper wire in here are they more in demand than they were two months ago four months ago six months ago six two two ten ten points. The problem with trading out the Leafs assets is that the guys that they

probably want to move, they've got three or four of the exact same player. So if you're going to move Hirvonen, if you're going to move Robertson, if you're going to move Nimala, I'm just spitballing through their roster here. You know, I don't know where the value is really. Like you're going to hopefully move an NHL guy, maybe a camp, you know i don't know where the value is really like you're gonna hopefully move an nhl guy maybe a camp um you know i don't know if i'm buying on the other side of the of the fence here's the problem i i i'm not loving what i'm getting back in return and you don't have a lot of draft capital so that's what i mean by them being in a tough spot it's it's now if you float

easton cowan out there, Fraser Minton out there, like if you want to go down that road, then yeah, you're going to get a player in return that's going to have short-term value. But you're going to give up something that you already don't have much of. But I guess that's part of the risk.

If you think you're going to win it, go for it. Put all your cards in the middle. Would you trade Cowan? That's a topic for another day remember we had this same talk remember we had this talk about nize a year and a half yes i did yes we did the three of us are sitting here we can trade nize one of one of the great responses i've got from kip on that was i was like you know kate and i's had a good game and i was like god we were talking about trading trading them and kip was like yeah and they might have won had they well you know you know you don't know that's always the what if and there was uh there was some talk about chicago right maybe uh kyle dubas floating them out to

chicago was there a goal and flurry and flurry for i think it was two first round picks and nice there you go so what if pretty good boys what if are we good on leafs yeah we are uh one one other guy who's come up on this show quite a bit is old conor bedard who you know we've talked about him for the four nations face off last night i see macklin celebrini score an ot winner his fourth goal of the year in uh eight games conor bedard has three goals in 18 games this year, 13 points. What are your thoughts on what's going on with his development early on here? I didn't like his game in Vancouver the other night, homecoming game. So a couple of different things are standing out.

Somehow, someway, we got to get better in the face-off circle. I know that sounds like just a small thing but starting with the puck when you're a skilled guy obviously matters a lot right because if he wins a draw somebody's looking to give it back to him and he can go on the attack when you start your shifts with him at center ice right now they're chasing the play more often than they have it and i think he's around 30 or something guys which is obviously horrendous you know i can get him to a hundred if they just let someone else take the face off yeah so that's the things float somebody else in there and then let him just kind of wander right because coverage

wise he's okay defensively like he can cover down low and he can track up and down the ice he's just been okay but you know what so chicago just okay they they've got they've like donato's been okay he's got nine goals or whatever and he's you know the best version of himself um you know felino the other night looked like he was uh fast like felino looked like he was playing fast the other night which was shocking to me um but bedard sophomore slump a little bit there his handles haven't been as clean um we'll see i'm am i overly concerned no chance is is strength strength an issue here his so the way that he is built do you guys remember when sid first came into the league his upper body was you know he was young man but bedard's built the same way he's got a big rump and big legs but the upper body and the

long stick he was so when he's defending and you don't have a ton of upper body strength for me if he gets into reaching situations where he's got to engage that way yeah like it is a little bit of an issue for sure um again you know not surrounded by a lot of support not enough secondary battle there in chicago that that hurts everybody you know like you're gonna be the worst part of your game can get exposed in a hurry when you're living on the margins and you're their best player like that's that's a heavy lift for sure um just go back to the leavess for one more question because there's a guy we haven't seen a lot that has been in the league for a while,

Niani Hockenpah, but I don't know what to expect first. You know, if he stays in the lineup for them, is he going to help them at this point? What is he to the Leafs this season? I really like Hockenpah. You do? Okay. I do. I like him a lot.

I like him. He's got Brad Marsh offensive upside, but I really don't care. He's long. He's physical. He knows exactly what he is. And as long as he plays between the hash marks and keeps everything to the perimeter, he's going to be fine. I don't like the trajectory of Benoit's game so much this year,

but I also believe that Benoit's capable of playing at least close to what he played last year, hopefully. So I just like the look of it. He is what he is. He's defined. He's not going to stray outside his comfort zone, Borny, and that's a positive. Nice.

If you were still scouting right now and you had the book on a Stolarz in net, and I don't know whether you had a chance to trade for him or sign him and you didn't, are you waiting for that bubble to burst? Or would you have said, I've seen enough and I miscalculated? I've already seen enough right now to say that I have miscalculated? I've already seen enough right now to say that I have miscalculated. To be honest, I think he's already punched above his playing weight for, for where he is today.

Like I think he's, he's much better today. When he first came to London Kipper, he couldn't track and he was kind of a hot mess in his crease. And it wasn't great to watch besides the big body. He was just huge. Now. Yeah.

But I got to get them over 30 games before i'm a real believer here like there's gonna be a slump in here there's gonna be a week or two where everybody's gonna be saying uh-oh and you hope that at that point that wall can you know pick up the slack or god forbid we hear a murray coming back up you know something like that there's gonna be some things that are gonna happen between now and the end of the year but boy oh boy does he look good. And if I'm advanced scouting this guy, I got to get him moving as much as possible back and forth and get in his eyes as much as I possibly can.

The good news for Toronto and Toronto fans is they've got some big boys on the back end who are more willing to box out and compete around their net. And that's great because big body goalie like Stolarz, he's seen the biscuit. All right, Book. Great stuff, man. Thanks for doing this.

Anytime, boys. Have a great week. We'll see you. All right. Thanks, Books. Appreciate it. See you, Sammy. See you, Books.

Pro hockey group, Sportsnet, former NHL scout. Talking with him, I always think to check of rookie scores and see what's going on in the Calder Trophy race. Matvey Michkov is leading the league in points for rookies at 15 points, but we know it's not going awesome. Sit him down. They're not loving it in Philly. It sounds like a lot of power play points.

Didn't get this year the hot rookie out of the gate eric lindros eric lindros you mean mitchkov there's same guy yeah right same guy logan stankov in his second you know like lane hudson has zero goals and 11 assists they like that siplikov on long island i know cutter go chase at eight points you're beating around the bush here if it was go back to the leaves and you asked him about cowan if it was like a big you know multi-year contract guy who became available who was really going to help the leafs would you trade cowan or minton oh for me because i would trade cowan everything's on the table i would trade yeah yeah yeah i would trade either yeah just you can find third line

centers for me it's like I want to see what the team looks like. Where are they in the standings in February? I feel like they're going to be probably one or two or three. Who's available? I don't know. That's what I'm saying. Ryan Donato.

Stuff always shakes out as it goes. We're almost wrapped up here and we'll segue maybe into the national hour. But, you know, big story today. The Boston Bruins fired their head coach, Jim Montgomery. Where are they? Where are they come February and March? Brad Marchand.

Oh, boy. What a name you just dropped. I didn't even consider that that if they're out of it cowan for marchand you heard it here first get away i'm just i'm just telling you that now if in fact this thing goes south big time in boston and brad needs a new contract he's not ready to shut it down, and Boston's not prepared to pay him. I got a fun one for you.

First off, the three teams who are worse in the league in goal differential are Pittsburgh, Boston, and San Jose. So that's the type of example that you can forecast to saying if, what would we do? If there's two UFAs available for the Leafs to sign at the same dollar amount at the end of the season, you can have John DeVars or Brad Marchand. Which one are you signing?

Well, one's won and one hasn't. Yeah, one won. Yeah, one's a center and the other isn't. I plead the fifth. Probably Marchand. All day long. Yeah, it's Marchand. I don't want to offend John because he's got good gear.

He's doing great. Good belief. Everybody's scared to offend. Just say it. I'd rather have Marchand. Oh, sorry. It's okay. That felt terrible.

John's a big boy. Yeah. And he's got 100 mil in the bank. He cares what you think. He's having a kale smoothie right now. He's not listening to me. He's loving life right now. Okay.

Our thanks to Jason Bukla in our first hour. Plenty to dissect, including the hottest score in the NHL down and out. We'll tell you what's wrong with Ovechkin. Oh, we will? Yeah, we will. We will. I got a little insight on that. Stick around.