Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Measuring Stick Game in Raleigh

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Leafs' Thursday-night test against the Carolina Hurricanes. Then, they discuss the team's decision to go back to Joseph Woll against the Canes and whether the Leafs' goaltending play frees them up to trade a goalie away. After, they get into the Leafs' dominance in the faceoff circle and revisit yesterday's chat on Auston Matthews' form. Later, three-time Stanley Cup champion Justin Williams joins the show (33:50) to tee up the Hurricanes' side of tonight's matchup and shares his thoughts on Jaccob Slavin's absence, the goaltending trio's play so far this season, and GM Eric Tulsky's emphasis on analytics.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Ready, set go, Sammy. You all set? Yeah. All right. I don't think I've heard that before. I just had to take a leak. Just don't chat. You guys were laughing me.

Like, what's off? Life's good. Life's good. Hi. It's probably the second or third time in a month. He's gone on air and told everybody. He's taking a leak. I'm like, is there a better TV radio way of doing that, J.B?

I don't know. This is, you know, we like to be real and authentic and connection to years. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No question about that. And our Sammy's leading the way. Sorry, guys. Welcome aboard at the Real Kippur and Born show, season five leaf hour edition. Frank the Tank is here.

Derek Brandale, the Kipprio's, Justin Bourne, and yours truly, Sammy McKee. We are live on SportsNet 360, Sportsnet 590 the fan in Toronto and streaming always on Sportsnet. Plus can always catch us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube when you can't get us live. Game day here. Yeah, I would like to apologize that I was late. You were legitimately 10 seconds. I was really, I was just busy rewatching the Andre Markov ceremony, so I just had to get in. Why are you taking a run at the Montreal Canadiens?

I'm not taking a run. I'm not taking a run at it. I'm not taking a run at it. People were annoyed in Montreal that we didn't hear at sports that make a bigger deal show it. Yeah. And why was that?

Andre Markov? Yeah. We should have shown that for a... Should have showed him way more respect. Him and the Montreal Canadians, way more restraint. You go on national television. You say I want more air time.

They chop off Andre Markov. That's what happened last night. I think he's the epitome of a guy who had a great career in a local market where they would love him, Where the Vancouver Canucks fans, you'd be like, who's that? Do you a two-time All-Star? But he played 16 years.

But he had a great career. Most of the career he had. He had an unbelievable career. So, like, honor it. He wouldn't be the first guy that we showed National. I'm being honored. I mean, how many times do we show these ceremonies? I mean, like that.

We do. That's what you do now. You show them. You show on videos. This guy's just placated to the much of Montreal. Sammy, you crap all over Montreal, Canadians. And I've just, I've had it. Oh, yeah.

I've had it. Well, they didn't like my tweet. Boy, they're not bad at that movie. He's one of the highest scoring Montreal Canadians in history. Yeah, okay. Like I said, nothing against him. But you didn't want to show it live. No, people want to know about this game

because they don't follow it like a local audience who are like, oh, okay, who's in the game? The Jets? Sure. You love it. You love it. Okay, we'll pick this up on the national. No, I think we can just leave it. I think we just leave it.

All right, okay. We don't want to dig it up. You're the one that brought it up. I know, I know it was being a rude guy. Okay. It isn't the Montreal Canadiens tonight for the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's the Carolina Hurricanes, a much deeper team, a team that for the last, I don't know, how many years has been in contention. They can't quite get over the hump to a Stanley Cup final, but it just seems like they're oh so close.

and still remain that way. Yeah, I mean, they go to the second round of the playoffs every year. Pretty impressive stuff, but kind of when it comes to the guys with the top-end talent, you know, the elite guys, which is why they went out and got ranting in. They seem to fall short. Look at their stats this year. They are a playoff team and they have no players who are a point per game, you know, which is crazy to be as good as they are that consistently without that elite talent.

Yeah, it just feels like their desk. is to probably go through the Atlantic and then I'm sort of go through the Metropolitan and then meet up with the Atlantic winter that's happened to be the Florida Panthers the past couple years and they've been nowhere close to those guys got blown off the ice but I would say that this season if you're a Carolina Hurricanes fan much like kind of a if I'm going to make a parallel here or much like a Buffalo Bills fan in the NFL feels like a lot of the normal power heavyweight guys aren't around and this may actually be a year where you can look at the Eastern Conference and say, hey, we got a real shot this year.

They got a goodest chance as anyone this year, absolutely. Like, you just, I mean, you think about Florida's the real boogeyman and their last place. I mean, they may round into form, but Carolina's got a chance. This feels like it could be it. So we'll see. We've talked briefly about signature games, marquee games. This one certainly feels like the truest test up until now for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Does it? You like Carolina is the measuring. stick. I think I think yes for the Leafs now to figure out if in a week how much ground did they get back in terms of

looking more like a team that can push and contend and at times look like the team that we saw last year which could defend block shots and momentum swings fast with a quick

breakout Yeah, I think tonight's a night That we can look at it and go, okay Let's see how far you guys have come in a week and a half Yeah, and Carolina's won a couple games in a row They've been home for a little bit here Had I think three days between games So they're rested, they're home, they're ready to play

They're on a seven game home stand So I think every team that's in a playoff spot right now Is the measuring stick game for the Leafs I mean they really need to accumulate points It's at the end of a trip here. It's a big game for the Leafs. I don't know how big of a game it is for the Carolina Hurricanes, which may work in the least favor or whatever.

They feel like they have a consistent effort. The Cains always the same game they play. But I think it's a big one for the Leafs. Like I think it'll tell you a lot about whether this so-called, I don't know, turn around or whatever you want to call it, three or four wins is actually something or they're just playing bad teams. All right. Let's go to Craig Barubi on the matchup with the Keynes tonight, clip one.

Yeah, urgency, I think, you know, just coming out and being urgent right away. We know how they play and they're going to come at you and again, it's about beating the pressure tonight, a lot like Florida. So it's got a good opportunity for our team.

It's just about starting a game on time and being urgent right away and making strong plays with the puck. Carolina missing Jacob Slavin. He's been out for, I don't know, 16 games or something. What is going on there? Lower body injury of some kind. They're playing it really careful with him.

I said they don't want him to have any setbacks and kind of looking towards playoffs and making sure they're at full strength then. So Slavin will be out. Former Carolina Hurricane and three-time Stanley Cup champion, Justin Williams, will join us in about, I don't know, 23 minutes. And I don't know what he's going to tell us on Slavin,

but he can certainly tell us how much they miss him, that's for sure. Yeah, I mean, no doubt, right. This guy's probably the best defense of D-Man in the NHL, I think a lot of people would say. I think the guy that really at the Four Nations face off last year jumped out to me as like oh my God this guy is how good is he he was just like he played the half the game and you could never get by him

he made a great defensive play on Sidney Crosby in the gold medal game where he smacked it away right he's about to shoot in the net so he's one of those guys that you're really going to miss and Carolina is still even with that first in the metro in goals allowed so they're not giving up very much even without him. So when he comes back in,

they play a team game, man. They're tough to score on. Eilers plays a 700th game tonight for them. His first year there, he's starting to warm up a little bit. So they're a good team. And they're also a team that seems like they're a lot more willing now to go out there and spend money and make impact moves. The Keander Miller one was interesting in terms of the look that he had

the last few years with the rangers he wasn't trending like he did earlier in his career and there was no uh no commitment from the rangers with him either on a contract or ice time or you know that you're the core guy yeah of our future they just said no well we'll move you to carolina and then they got in the next thing you know he's signing what a 60 million dollar contract yeah they use them all the time 24 minutes a game roughly he's been fantastic for them. You know, just put them in a better spot, I guess. You saw Seth Jones go to Florida and become a different guy on a good team.

And Miller's kind of done that for Carolina. That's been a good find. That was an interesting one because of how they got them out of there, which was offer sheet threat, right? Like, we're going to do this if we don't do a trade. So let's just do a trade sort of thing. All right. We'll discuss if the Leafs have truly turned a corner from what we've seen in a short period of time, but let's go to Craig Broobie's

thoughts on that. Clip two. I don't know. Yeah, it's probably a little early. I mean, we're playing some lot better hockey and just got to keep building on it. Can't take your foot off the gas, you know? We've got to keep staying with it and keep pushing here. Yeah, I think it's just a bigger question about that if they have. They're in a corner, I agree with the coach.

I think it's too early. No changes to the lineup. Zero. So they intend to find out if the lineup is the reason. That it's going well. Matthias Machelli and Callie Yarncroke. Yeah. Is it too early, though, guys, really?

To know if they've turned a corner? Yeah. You tell us, you don't think so? I'm saying that I think they have a little bit with their competitiveness and their sense of urgency. And, like, there's no, there's no more time to wait to find out. You better say yes because can't go and win one and lose one. right now.

Yeah, but if they haven't turned the corner and he comes out and says, we've turned a corner and they'd lose a game tonight, which I don't think we think they're going to win. Well, then you turn around and say we haven't turned a corner yet. Just keep turning and unturning the corners, but he's the wins and losses. The NASCAR track, just keep going around. It's, I'm just saying that there,

there is a sense of urgency here to not drop two or three games now. You got to, you got to find a way to win two out of three. and this goes to four out of six, does it not, with a win tonight? Yeah, there's three of their last four, so four to five. Right? This is the last one. They come home. Oh, you're talking about for the road trip.

Yeah, for the road trip. Okay, yeah. So this would be four, six on the road trip. Yeah. Like, that's a, that's a fork in the road road trip, right? Because you go three and three, and it's like, eh, not good enough. Three and three is not good enough. Yeah, they have...

Four and two is good enough. That's how big this game is. It does feel like a big difference. And even though it's two point difference. That is like moving the goalposts on what we established for this trip going into it, which was what's a good road trip for them? And it's like... Three and three was no good.

Well, I was fine. Three and three is tread water until you can, you know, find it. There's a tough trip. Three and three, depending on what Florida does or Buffalo does tonight, can find you back in the last place. Yeah, you know, even better than four and two is five and one. Yeah. And six and no would have been awesome.

I would love to get in there. But that ship sailed. Yes. But four and two is still there for you. Sure. It would be definitely better than losing. That is the goal of the hockey match tonight for sure for the Leafs. But I think tonight, if the Leafs happen to win tonight, I think there will be a lot of fans and maybe media.

I don't know what you consider. Jumping back on the bandwagon. I think this is a bandwagon game for sure. I think if they win tonight, coming home for the Montreal Canadians on a Saturday night. I do too. And they play well again. If it doesn't look like the Columbus game

where they just get absolutely filled in and Joseph Wall's deal is it. I don't think the Leafs are going to win tonight and have Carolina look like Florida. Right? Like do you think they're going to be better than Florida? They're going to be better. Yeah.

They're going to be better. And if a win against a better team, a deeper team, a more competitive team, is that much more belief that I am back. I think it's pretty rare I would say if they win tonight

it's not going to look like it did against Florida it's going to be road win you know close game outshot get some saves it'll take more than just Joseph Wall standing on his head it's going to take a great defensive effort

it's going to take two or three guys having first and second star games whether it is Willie whether it's Austin, whether it's J.T. and Scotty Lawton or it's going to take, there's going to be a lot more faces on this win than just Joseph Wall. Why do we go to Burubi, clip three on the decision to go back to Wall? You know, I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, it's, he had a day yesterday

and he's been rolling good and he's feeling good. So I think, you know, when you communicate with it, and how he's feeling where he's at from the physical standpoint, the mental standpoint, that was a pretty easy decision. Yeah, he had no choice. Yeah. No choice. No choice.

Especially again on a game that let's see what we got here. Yeah. And today I wrote my article in the Toronto Star basically saying that the goaltending in general has turned into a strength. and you hope that Stolars can come back as soon as possible and then maybe put the Leafs in a position where they got some real assets to move it as far as the trade deadline.

You're talking about a goalie? Yeah, move a goalie. Yep. You know what? I see what you're doing there and I think I like it. Well, I... I'm just saying there's no assets. No assets.

So who are you going to move if you have two of these guys and people... But for this, To work, Anthony Stollers. Yeah. Find yourself, bud, and get back in and get a long stretch here. There's a number of reasons why I say this. And of course, in my article today, it's about turning tradable assets in. But it's also to take some heat off a Joseph Wall here.

You cannot run this guy three out of four nights, three out of four games. This, by the way, is 100% the stripping your house of copper wire to buy meth of trades you're proposing here. I'm telling you, like, we have a strength. Get rid of it. We have acknowledged that they're all in. This is like winning 20 bucks on a scratch off when you're 10K and debt. You're like, yeah, I've got to go spend that 20.

Get rid of it. Go buy more scratch tickets. That'll do it. You got to flip one of them. You know, it's so hard about that Kippen. I'm sorry, I didn't read your article. No, it's okay. Is like, you know, Stolars took a bump and disappeared for all playoffs last year.

And the year before, wool twisted funny at the end of a game and didn't show up for a game seven. Like, of all goalie tandums, it feels really perilous to say, we only need one of these guys. I know, but your line up isn't as strong as it was last year or the year before. and I just think if Stolars can find his way back in just before Christmas or just after Christmas there will be enough time for him to get to March where he hopefully doesn't get hurt and then you've got to make some tough decisions

He's got a modified no trade that's great He's got half he can get traded to half the league Yeah, 16 16 and I don't know what that does But Presumably the good teams are not off is really the goalie that we think he can be and when Stolars is healthy

he's the goalie that we've seen in the past can you afford from March on to have one of them sitting on the bench every night yes no but Kipps no I don't think so

breaching in a way that you got to reach right now I need help on the blue line I need the power play another threat scoring winger that can again be shifted maybe to a power play like there's there's a lot of places i want to go and just sit a valuable asset i will promise you the day you trade anthony stolars the next game joseph wall disappears for two months okay then then you know what you have if you're gonna if these

are going to be your two go-to guys you have to have a good backup or a one b because of the issues in the past you just do like if you can swallow the the healthy part and you've committed four years to Stolars and you still have, I think, three more years for... I think this is the first year of that contract. This, then two more for wool. Okay. So there's your three and four year commitment. Then it's time to move Hildeby.

And if you can get his stock up, and maybe the stock will come this month going into Christmas and then he ends up in the Marley's and he does some nice things there, he can be your Spencer Knight to go get. get a Seth Jones. Oh, my God. I mean, Kip, what did you just say? I'm just saying that that's where you want your assets and your stock trajectory to go up. Yeah.

That's the plan. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, night example aside. It might be a long shot here, but like take a look. You got to get tired of saying, no, Easton Cowan's not available. Totally. So where are you going to go? No, that's it.

I mean, it's the 2020. eight first and you got very little else the only thing i'd be concerned about is like a team who trades for stolars presumably is a playoff team that wants to compete presumably they don't want to give you current talent off their roster so you kind of need a team like i don't know who thinks they're going to be good next year the year after is kind of close is that like a philly or uh you know someone in that sort of ballpark it might be a chicago scenario where you're looking at next year because stolars yeah he does have long enough term that could be someone money out of the playoff mix listen all right might be a Hail Mary but sometimes those work they

catch them in the end zone once in a while in a meantime i just i also think that we're kind of i mean if i do say so here we're getting a little ahead of ourselves playoffs yeah buying like i mean for example you know like they would be good to have them both healthy as your goalies next year if you're not a playoff team this year like i i think it's a little i think we're still too close to the bottom of the Eastern Conference standings here to be talking about trading away one of the goalies to, like, get assets in. Is that fair?

Like, I, maybe if they win tonight, they'll go back to Banwagon Sammy, but, like, I'm still not fully on it. Yeah. I mean, it's tough to argue with you only because they are two points that will last in the conference, but, you know, the fact that they're four points out of playoffs

is, you know. It's a topsy-turvy, Atlantic Division. She's tight. It's really tight. But no, I just, I don't, I don't mind the idea. Yeah. But the only reason it terrifies me is because I don't think you're trading Wall. If you're trading one of those two guys, it's Stolars that you're talking about.

And Wall is just not nearly dependable to have a true backup guy. Like you need to think about a guy that's going to play 40-ish games for you. If you're going to have Wall, and Stoller is kind of the perfect guy for that. I think at a good number. With Stoller is not even skating here. He'll be, in all probability, going to play Saturday. Right? I mean, you get...

Saturday night against the Montreal Canadiens. You cannot just go to Joseph Wall every game. That's why tonight was perfect. I disagree to you when you go, oh, he had to go back to him tonight. No, I was making the point earlier this week on this show that tonight was the perfect opportunity to go to Hill to be, where it's a borderline scheduled loss.

Didn't you on this very show today say he had to go back to To all? No, no. I'm a long guy tonight. I've been saying this year that they should just be starting him, but they've started him in seven of the eight games since he's been back. Tonight is a night that you could have gone to... I'm hanging my hat on Hildebee's game Saturday night against Pittsburgh, and that's given me a ton more confidence to go to him Saturday night.

It's funny, when you come across a new song that you love and you're, like, obsessed with it, some people won't play it too much because they don't want to get sick of it, but I'm just like, give it to me. Well, I love it. Just play it a thousand times. That's Joseph Wall right now for the Leafs. You're like, this might not work for me in two weeks, but let's just keep hammering the wall button. Yeah.

Repeat, repeat, repeat, and then one day you wake up and its legs don't work. I mean, yeah, I just really hope that he is good. I mean, he's been excellent and he's looked energetic and he looked great. Like, I'm not, I'm not dune cast in this, but it just felt like a decent spot to give. It seems to be like he's in the zone a little bit right now. He is. But if you start him tonight, you start him Saturday too. Like, if you're starting him every other night, just do it.

Well, I don't know. You got to see what kind of workload and toll tonight takes on Joe. Joseph Wall, and... There's going to be some shots tonight. Something tells me. Are they leading the league in shots? I was just about to check that. I've heard they've got a pretty aggressive shot.

Dogs per game played, they are second behind the Colorado Avalanche. That's surprising. Yeah. They could hope... They average 33.2 shots per game. They hope that they could kind of snooze through the game tonight. Like, they watched Carolina kind of snooze against

Calgary the other night I don't know it was a 1-0-0 game just did what they had to do. I don't think they blitzed a ton of shots at Calgary here so can they can they kind of snooze it up a little bit for two games in a row? That'd be nice well we have

something on the last game they played against the Leafs why is that? Just because they asked them about it and I thought it was interesting what happened last game refresh our listeners blew a big lead I know that's not a surprising result but remember they were up in that game and they kind of went to sleep and got filled in loss in regulation.

Yeah. If I'm not mistaken. Seth Jarvis scored in a breakway maybe. I can't remember all the details of it. All right, let's have a listen. Yeah, let's listen to leave. Well, we had the lead, you know, and then we kind of just opened things up,

and it was like a river hockey game for me. But we can't play that way against his team. Again, you're going to have to have patience in your game because they're coming so hard with pressure a lot. You're going to have to flip pucks. You're going to have to. and chip things out. It's a little ugly at times, but that's okay.

You just keep staying with it, and you'll get your breaks eventually, and we'll get some looks. So staying more patient than we did last time we played them. Not the flipping of the bugs. Find me in game time under unleashed shots whenever we do that for tonight. There's no chance they get to 30, let alone 25. So this was the second loss of their five-game losing streak that they had.

in mid-November and it was stankhoven and Taylor Hall that scored in the third period all their players look exactly the same to me so all their forwards stankovin and Taylor Hall they're all the similar height they all skate fast they all kind of outside of them having Brent Burns and they're just kind of hard to identify I find I just I don't know it's weird they just they're very it's a very robotics team yeah very robotic team a lot of on face-offs? Yeah, the Leifes win every face-off. And they were talking about it today at the practice.

Waugh was talking about it a little bit. Does that matter? Yeah, I don't mind it. Yeah, it's a puck possession. Faceoff winning procession. Leifzer second in the league, 57%. I do. Ottawa.

Claudeau's the best face-up in the league by a mile. Yeah. That helps. You want to hold on to the puck off of a fresh line change for the first 20, 30 seconds? Yes, it's important. Let's have a listen. Oh, okay. You don't get it.

Oh, go ahead. Yeah, I think the big part of it is they work at it a lot. We work at it with them a lot. And, you know, whether it's through video or just in practice. And I think, you know, this team's been a good face-off team for a number of years now. Yeah, because Tvaras and Matthews. Notariously 60%, isn't he, JT? Yeah, he's got to be top five.

You know, you know, it's funny. As soon as we were talking about this, I looked up. their power play winning percentage and it's 0.1% lower. When you have an extra guy on the ice, when you're just whack it to the boards where you get more guys. It's been a beef of mine with this team for a long time. Like win

a face off on a power play. So they're 50th on the power play and second at even strength. Oh, that's infuriating. That's infuriating. Well, that's a start to getting a better power play. Not putting a 60 goal score on the point. That's not the best way to do it?

Do we know if they're doing that He didn't tip his hand, did he? No, he didn't tip his hand. But they're strong, too. Sebastian Aho and Jordan Stahl. Stan Kovin, I don't know what he's, what his work is in a face-off circle. Jordan Stahl is not having a great year.

He's one of the guys that they have an eye on there, slowing down a little bit. Like, he can't be a great bottom six guy forever. No. He's been that, though. Is he still playing, like, large minutes, though? Or they brought him down? Yeah, I don't.

they'll figure that out here, but I don't think he's playing large minutes. I'd be surprised if he was. Orne, you wrote on the, you wrote on a couple of Matthews. Yeah, last thing before we go, I followed up on our conversation

yesterday on Matthews and just wrote an opinion piece today about like, what's he going to be this year and what's he going to be going forward? Can he ever be the same player? Because it is conversation, right? Like where does he go?

They, Jonas Siegel of the Athletic, had an article today, a one-on-one conversation with him. Yeah. And you read that? I did, yeah. I did. And he feels like he's slowly getting there.

Basically is the gist that I got out of it. Totally. You know, but I was, it did catch my eye that the way he phrased, he said, I think I'm getting there. He also said, I'd like to get to another level. I think it's turning in the right direction. And there was mentioned. I think, I think. There was mention of confidence, too, right?

Did he talk about his confidence, like he's getting more confident and, yeah, to your point with the comments they they leave a little wiggle room there for you know it could happen it could not happen yeah well I think everyone

Matthews himself doesn't know you know doesn't no one is sure I think everyone agrees it's not getting back to top five player in the league but can he be top 10 guy in the league you know what's the number that's when you essentially

wave the white flag to well he won't be a top five my first thought is why not what is happening here you're 28 you're not 37 but what do you mean why it's you've talked about injuries with us on the show a thousand times then let's hear it let's hear it okay i'm okay with that okay but what i'm not okay with is that we're left guessing here that's fine we don't get any answers j b even the the things i just read to you where he said, I'm turning a corner from what? I feel it coming. Thank you. Feel what coming?

What are you talking about? Exactly. We're all talking about this thing and we're around it. Like I said, what's the thing? If you wanted to come out and be like, my back's not right? Yeah. I'm not, I haven't felt 100%. I don't have as much power as I had in the past.

Stronger than it was a month ago. Even if you didn't say it's my back, if he just said, we're working on it. We're working around. something that has left me a little bit, you know, vulnerable in my power game. Whatever the case is, maybe it's just naive of me to think in 2025, the kids want to reveal anything more or the clubs want to reveal anything more. But whatever's not being revealed is not helping him and it's not helping the Leaf fans.

But you're talking about perception versus the reality of us knowing doesn't affect on ice performance. He can give what he gives, and it's going to be what it's going to be. Yes. All of us are frustrated by it, but. Yeah. But if there, I don't buy into the, well, he's just never going to be the same again. And he's just never going to be a top five or top seven.

But you do buy into it. You said it. With presently what we see. Yeah. I buy into that, that you're right. It doesn't look like he'll at this present rate. if this is all that there is, he won't get back there. Right.

But I'm a still like, why guy? I'm still like, what's going on here? Why not? I need more. We all know. We just all know that it's not the same physically. I told you guys. We can watch.

We know what it looks like. If you turned around and said tomorrow, listen, I tried, I can't. I need surgery. I'm going to do this. I think you go, okay, all right. Now we get it. Now we understand. But like to sit there and just speculate a guy that's in his prime window

to be the greatest athlete he'll ever be peak to just wave the white flag and say, well, he's just never going to be a top five. Well, but this is, you know, Kip, he's got some ailment. We agree. You know that. I know that. Sam knows that he's got something going on that isn't 100%.

He's trying to work to play through it. If they felt it needed surgery, they do surgery. For one year. For one year, you've tried it. Well, I mean, they tried it last year and then tried to get healthy this summer. One year, they've tried to get them healthy. Yeah. And it ain't working. Or at least up until this point, if that's the case,

we can all come to the conclusion that it isn't working to the standards that we think he set. But if we, you know, you watch that game against Florida, scoring chances, break away. He plays an awesome hockey game. You know, if he can be that guy plus confidence, you know, he's among the best players in the league like that. There's not many guys who can play that way. But it's up against his standard. It's one game and it's been what we have watched for one year now.

Yeah. Right? And he's on, he's going to, like to your point, he's going to score 33 goals this year. He'll, right? If he's healthy, he won't score 33 goals. They'll score more than that. Yes.

And I just think at some point, someone's got to sit there and either it's the Leafs or Austin or somebody's got to go, okay, uncle, right? If it is the injuries. And if it's not the injuries... But what if it's something that in surgeries, it's not going to fix? Well, I think it would help they would do it. Yeah.

So it's tough to know without us being able to have a diagnosis. We got to go. I know, we'd have tough to have this conversation because when he did score 70, you just wanted him to defend and to not be the 70-goal guy. enough of this can you be something else i just want you're right i do and i but i i'm not talking about like i'm not talking about 70 goals i'm talking about power i'm talking about having guys

climb on your back and you're not slowing down he was a force i'm not talking about six or 70 goals jb i'm talking about six foot three 240 pound that just runs like a a freight train That's the guy that's frustrated. It's frustrating. It's frustrating on a knowledge basis that we don't know. But I don't know. I talked about the reality of if this is the guy you have, what do you have? Anyway, we should.

Okay, we'll take a quick break. Three-time Stanley Cup champion, Justin Williams, former Carolina Hurricane. Mr. Game 7 next when we return to Real Kipper and Born. Everything you need to know about the Raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA. Smith and Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome back to the program. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Let's welcome in three-time Stanley Cup champion, Justin Williams. And, you know, Justin. Yes, well, glad. Later in the show, we got, okay, is somebody else, like, I don't know, people that can't see Justin on our Zoom camera right now. Yeah, we got you.

He's in a car, he's in the passenger seat, and I'm hoping he's got a driver. I've got a driver. I've got a young driver, too. Love it. We're figuring it out. Awesome. Got the teenage driver here, and we're going to figure it out. So in our national hour, we're going to have Pierre McGuire on, former Hartford Whaler.

We got Ray Ferraro coming on as well, former Hartford Whaler. You, you dodged the Hartford part, but you get the Plymouth part in you, don't you? I do have the Plymouth part, yeah, and I kind of almost feel part of the team because of it. You know, I wore the whaler before, even though it was a different logo, but I think guys get really excited. I know I did when we put on the green and white. It's such an iconic, cool jersey. I think it's one of the most iconic ones that the NHLs ever had. Listen, it took me about seven minutes to realize I wasn't watching something on YouTube 20 years ago

because I was going, man, they can do amazing things with digital now, right? Look how bright those colors look 20 years ago. And it's like, no, that's the current team right now. But that was pretty cool. Yeah, we can usually tell the difference, though, whenever you find some old, NHL hockey on TV and before 2004 you can tell the speed when guys can just ski off

of guys and if a guy gets a step on the defender the defender just brings her right back in with a stick and hopes him back in that was those are the times weren't that Keper? Oh my God. Truly an insane era of hockey. That's what I could earn a living. Put your stick in a guy's belly and go for a ride. What a life. Well, we appreciate you joining us.

We're looking to get caught up to speed on things, hurricanes to see where their games at. Couple wins in a row, midst of a homestand. How are things at for the canes look like there as good a spot as anyone in the Eastern conference? Yeah, I mean, we seem to figure it out. We've got really great leadership. And I think that's something that, you know, obviously all great teams have, all, you know, really good, successful, consistent teams have. They have great leadership. And we certainly have that, you know, starts with, you know, obviously, you know, our head coach behind the bench. you know, Jordan Stahl with, with what he does.

And even with guys out of the lineup, you see us, you see Tampa Bay, just kind of figuring out ways to get wins and to accumulate points throughout the season because we know it's hard getting into the playoffs. And we're doing that well. We've certainly had some injuries. Obviously, Jacob Slavin is a huge piece we've been missing on our back end, but we've been trying to figure it out. Is there anything that you can tell us about Slavin in terms of,

is this long-term? What was the original, you know, feeling losing one of the best defensemen in the league right now? Yeah, I mean, it was certainly a little, it's been a unique injury, I guess, is, you know, I guess the most I can say. But, you know, I've been skating him over the past couple weeks, and he's recently joined the team, skating with the team. So, you know, that'll be a timetable that, you know, obviously management. Jacob himself will figure out themselves and, you know, Roddy figuring out, you know, how aggressive we are with him coming back and playing, you know, the type of minutes when he comes back.

So it'll be exciting to give him back in the lineup. I know he's excited just joining the guys back skating after a couple months. And that's always good for the, just for the psyche. How about the goaltending in Carolina? I know Freddie maybe hasn't been where we know he can be. Boosie has been looking good. Kachetkov's still out. I don't know how to say any other name, so feel free to correct me.

No, I think you did it good. All right, all right. Brandon, Bussie, has been, he's been, he's been great. He's been extremely consistent, everything that we could have, that we certainly could have asked for. And, you know, rewarding him with back-to-back starts, you know, last week is something that he's earned. And, you know, Freddie will go tonight against his old team.

You know, a guy, obviously, we have a ton of confidence in, but, you know, for us, you know, we've, we've, we've had some, some injuries, uh, some injuries on the, on the, uh, in the goaltending. And, and it's been going on for a couple years now. It's been, been hard for them to stay, um, you know, healthy. Um, so we have three with them. We're rolling with them right now. And, um, the guys are responding well. And, and the goalies are as well. I mean, you want a goalie who, who wants the net. And all three of them want the net and are, and are, and a upset when they're not in the net and I think that's something that's almost missed a little bit nowadays where guys like oh it's okay let the other guy start you know all three guys want that net and want to be in all the time and that's good for certainly personal competition

you're watching and listening to Justin Williams three times Stanley Cup champion and now special advisor to the GM with the Carolina Hurricanes style of play we know Roddy we know the type of guy he was as a player, as a coach now that we've watched him over the many years. But the game the other night against Calgary didn't feel or look like, you know, style of play wise.

It was zero zero score. And I think both teams had about 15 shots on goal throughout 60 minutes here. But overall, Justin, what can we expect to see out of a team that they're playing tonight, the Toronto Maple Leafs that are still kind of looking rather desperate to to dig themselves out of a deep hole. Yeah, I mean, something you strive for is consistently, right? Is consistency. It's wanting the other team to know what's coming their way.

And for us, we want Toronto to know that we're going to be hard for a checking team. We're going to be relentless. We're going to be on them every time. We're not going to give them time and space. and we know coming and playing at the Lenovo Center is a tough place for teams to come and play now. We've established that over the past six, seven years, and, you know, obviously a bunch before that. But, you know, we're excited with how we can play at home. And, you know, we expect Toronto to know what's coming their way tonight.

Justin, your title there, special advisor to the GM, you guys have a guy I would call a unique GM around the league. I think someone who looks at things from a different viewpoint and I know the way that they approach acquiring players and all that. I'm wondering, do you believe that Carolina is unique in the way that they do business and build their team? Or do you think it's, you know, kind of run-of-the-mill stuff? It feels different as an outsider watching the way Carolina conducts business.

Maybe. In what way do you think it feels different? Well, I guess people assume it would be more analytically driven than just like, maybe that guy doesn't have the heart. It feels like there's a more thoughtful or rigorous process about players. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a thoughtful and rigorous process.

Obviously, we are more in tune with that side of it. We have our own way we evaluate players. Obviously, analytics is a very important piece of that. But having, you know, myself and, and Rod Brendamore and everyone together, it seems like everyone has an opinion. Obviously, you know, Tom Dundon and being the owner and Eric Tulski, being the general manager,

they have the final say. But what's really unique about our organization is it's not just, it doesn't seem like it's just one person. Everyone's got an opinion, I feel like, and everyone's opinion is valued. And I think that's a very important thing when we evaluate players and try to improve. And you can tell, obviously, Eric Tulski is not shy to swing the bat when he sees something that he's excited about. And that's very exciting as a player.

I know, as you guys can probably attest to, being a player in a room, knowing that, we will go and try and get, you know, the best player available. We will try to improve the team as best we can because we want to win. Yes, we're analytically driven, probably more so than some other teams. But at the same time, you know, we feel we're in a really good spot where we've been able to evaluate potentially find players that might be undervalued at times. Just to follow up on that comment about, you know, going after the best players here, it always seemed in the past, especially when Tom took over ownership, that, yes, that may be the case, but it comes with a cap.

It comes with an internal cap. It comes with a, you know, we don't really spend a ton of money on certain players. And then the last, what, year and a half, two years, man, you guys went after Ranton and then you went after Marner. And there's a sense that the Carolina hurricanes are still looking for a big whale. Not an ex-whaler, but a big whale here. It feels like there's been a change, a new, I don't know, philosophy moving forward.

Is that fair to say? Well, I think it's certainly fair to say, certainly with new ownership and not taking anything away from our previous owner, Peter Carmanos. But, you know, Carolina was, you know, it's a smaller market, right? It's a smaller market. It's before, you know, the last seven, eight, nine years, it was hard to get guys to sign here and want to sign here. you know, we're getting guys that are excited to potentially be part of the program and, you know, going for Mika Renton in last year and obviously have a Nikolai-Ealer sign here and the amount of guys that we've had commit long-term to play in Carolina is great.

You know, Peter Carmanos, there was always an internal cap, as you said. You know, you'd start the season. Maybe the salary cap was 50 million. Maybe our interior salary cap was 40 million. And now it's not that. You know, we spend to the cap. if there's players that are available. And we've been very successful with being able to manage our cap

and being able to get players to buy into what we're trying to build here. We're not trying to be good for one year or two years. We're trying to be good consistently and give ourselves a chance at a Stanley Cup every single year. And, you know, obviously our success hasn't gotten us all the way to the end, but we've been winning rounds consistently and we feel we keep giving ourselves a chance you know, one year is going to be one of our years and hopefully it's this one.

Well, we're excited about the game tonight. Wish you all the best, Justin. Me too. She's no accidents on the way to the rink. Great job. Great driver. Oh, yeah. I'll be resting.

Yes, she's doing actually a very good job here. I don't know if I'm sure you have listeners right now who have kids that are starting to drive. She's doing a very good job and she's getting me home safe. Awesome. Justin Williams, everybody. Thanks for joining us. Thanks, man.

Pleasure. How about the moonroof on that vehicle? Definitely a Tesla's quiet. I thought for sure he was in one of those self-driving cars. Whammo or... I don't know what there. They're all in California. They're Waymo or Whamor or something.

Yeah, Waymo. I saw a video of one that, like, drove through a, like, active crime situation. Like, the guy was, like, on his hands and the car just, like, took a left. Anyways. I was like the number one accident related to that is when people get out of the car. Like people are just opening doors and into bike lanes and stuff. Yeah. Anyway, sounds fun.

Riding in a Tesla, it's very quiet. It gives me like, it feels like I'm riding at a computer. Anyways, I didn't mean to do a Tesla computer. Sorry. Kemp's like, you're done? Who wants to win a bunch of cash while doing the best thing this holiday season? Sportsette by the internet of the fan is all in supporting the 50-50 fortune for sick kids. It's 50-50, so the more money we raise, the more kids we can help,

and the more holiday cash you can win. The current take-home prize is, is $295,615,000. You can buy your ticket of 50-50 fortune.ca or text award money to $5.9. And we'll send the link right to your phone, 18 plus, please play responsibly. Standard message and data rates may apply lottery license, R-A-F-151-84-10. You just snuck that in, too, eh? What?

Oh, the read. Yeah, well, I usually do when we come back from break. We had our guests right away. I did it after we go against. No, usually forget. I've been on fire. I've missed more red hopper. I think I'm complimenting you.

I forgot once ever. I think for sure you're going to change the jersey too by the time it goes national our show. Carolina, any last thoughts? Yeah. You know, I think Kandre Miller and Nick Eillers were great ads for them. I think for the Leafs,

best thing that happened for them is Freddie Anderson and that. Not because I think Freddie stinks, but he's struggling right now. The guy beside you thinks he stinks. I mean, listen, what's the opposite of Mr. Game 7 we just had on the shop? Mr. Out and Four? Yeah. Mr. Loses every game seven.

That's what Freddie Anderson are. So it ain't Game 7, but I do think he's struggling. I think that's nice for the Leafs. And I don't know. Got to get to him somehow. I didn't even. Could use an upgrade maybe in that by the time March rolls around. You don't, there's something that's always holding them back to get.

get to that next stage in the playoffs as you said day round two no problem but conference final and stanley cup final always out of reach yeah i mean it's the this is the year where it looks like the way is is attainable um just as a quick reminder i guess we just had on there in nine career game seven's played record of eight and one with 15 points including eight goals 15 points eight Oh, sorry, seven goals, 8.S. for 15 points in game sevens in his career. 8.1. That is staggering. One game contract this spring.

Just put them on the bench. Sign them and just keep them like a nuke or something. Yeah, just put them out there for the last shifts. He would have. Leifes can squeak one out here tonight, J.B. It'll be tough. It'll be tough. I'm not sitting here being confident that they'll do well tonight.

All right. Look for a point tonight. Find a way to get a point. Oh, even a point would be nice. Joseph Wall gets the start tonight. 924 save percentage since coming back. He's been hot. That's a good number.

All right. Our thanks to Mr. Game 7, Justin Williams. Up next when we go national, Pierre McGuire, Ray Ferraro. It is a Whaler. I don't even think of that. Reunion. I love it. I love it.

Don't go away. Thank you.