Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Measuring Stick Match vs. McDavid

Episode Date: March 22, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with a look ahead to the Leafs' test against the Oilers this weekend. They get into Marner's status, TJ Brodie slated to be scratched again, bizarre lineup combinations in practice, a Matt Murray sighting at morning skate and Domi and Matthews sticking together for at least one more game. Then, a chat about Matthew Knies' season and if his potential is hiding the flaws in his game. Finally, Luke Fox (32:56) sets the stage for tomorrow's game, concern levels for the Leafs' penalty kill, Keefe's management of the goalie tandem and which looming free agent would be best to be sign back this summer - Bertuzzi or Domi.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

oh it's friday and you know what that means off the rails friday nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee derrick brando, who reminded me it was Friday. Seconds before the show. You usually think it's Friday by Wednesday. Yeah, which is way more feedback than I get from our producer, Sammy McKee. What do you mean? What do you mean? Well, he's just... Derek's looking after me.

Oh, I have to tell you it's Friday? Yes, on occasion you do. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest a camper the day of the week every day. Ladies and gentlemen, the weekend. I give Sammy full credit because he made a slight adjustment to our program today because on top of a regular appearance from Doug McClain, which we thought for a second we lost him to nine holes on the golf course that's how much he cares about her show but then i you know when he tells me he's golfing on a friday and he might miss our show

the first thing i do is i look at the weather yeah and it's pissing in florida right now he's playing golf he ain't playing it got canceled which means he's coming on the show good so he'll be in a great he'll be in a great move i mean i would kill for some warm rain right now compared to the weather in toronto if you're listening in toronto today we're sorry you know so we got doug mcclain on the top of the hour in our national edition of our show we're also going to try to track down zach hyman you remember him He used to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Zach Hyman. Yeah, does it ring a bell at all? Nothing yet? The four checking forward, the grinder.

Yes. Yeah. Could have dumped it in a lot, didn't do much otherwise. He's been dumping it over the line a lot this year. 48 times. He sure has. We're going to try to track him down. He's coming in off a flight,

but there's also some thought that he's going to meet up with Elliott Friedman and Jeff Merrick for 32 thoughts. in off a flight uh but uh there's also some thought that he's going to meet up with elliot friedman and jeff merrick for 32 thoughts but if you are looking for something deeper than hey zach what's your favorite color oh my god just just wait for comment wait wait for zach on our show yeah we'll we'll we'll hunt them down we're gonna ask him deep, hard-headed questions? Hard. Oh, wow. Hard. Cool. We'll leave the rest of them to 32 thoughts.

All right. Can't wait to find out how this goes. Scored his 48th last night. 47th and 48th. Yes, right. Well, I mean, he did score his 48th. Yes, he did. You're not wrong. Yeah, has a chance to score 50 goals in Toronto.

And more. In Toronto. It's going to happen. He also has had, like, six disallow 50 goals in Toronto. And more. In Toronto. It's going to happen. He also has had like six disallowed goals this year. So he got off to a slow start last night, and then they just kicked it right up. Yeah, ended up being at 8-3. Yeah, Buffalo.

Connor Brown with a goal and an assist in the final two minutes of a five-goal lead or something there. I know that Kipper hates this, and it's even worse because it's not even a Leaf-related thing in the Leaf Hour, but the Oilers jerseys, stop wearing those. Oh, I know. The navy and neon orange.

Your home blue and orange jerseys are some of the nicest in the league, and you wear those Chicago Bear-looking jerseys. They're awful. Stop wearing them. Yeah. You want to tell Zach that? Sure. Okay.

If you give me the opportunity, he'll be like, well, obviously I love playing and wearing those colors. That's what he'll say. He's a good guy. He's not... Tavares.

No. He's got a bit more than Tavares. He's getting a practice in today to face those Oilers tomorrow night. And... Give me the updates. What are the scoops? No Mitch Marner.

And I kind of had the thought that they were saving him this week for this big game. But they want to be careful. Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, like as a... Listen, I'm not going to make any bones about it. I want the Leafs to win. I want the Leafs to do well it's

you know i we follow this team closely it's a lot more fun when they succeed i don't need mitch marner this weekend as much as i need to play well in three weeks just cut the crap our show needs this yes we don't care about anything else we're being selfish here fine whatever the reasons are i want them to win and so I don't want them to play this weekend. It's an easier show when they win. Yes, considerably. Come on. That is not true.

It is 100% true. They don't want me to come in here and argue and be mean to people and whatever. I mean, okay, it's good when they win a lot because we don't want to just be doing a show about the 2015 Leafs. But a few losses doesn't hurt the show. I mean, along the 82-game circuit, it ain't bad. You need a couple. This is a very simple question, okay? When is our show better, when they win or when they lose?

Go ahead and text us at 595-90. Where is the audience attention or their reasoning to tune into our show? Is it when they win or when they lose? At least this year, if they lose, they can't go watch the Raptors. They stink. Oh, my God. Why Jays? It's Jays time.

Hey, are the Jays going to be much better? No. But, yeah, I think I do. Okay, just to go inside baseball here and talk about the mechanics of how Sports Talk Radio works. Okay, tell us there. But I do think that the Toronto Maple Leafs, as presently constituted, are the absolutely perfect Sports Talk Radio team. A team that has a ton of stars that sometimes underachieve and have underachieved in the past and nobody really has any real expectations of so i i think there's a it's a fun team to talk about as long as they start winning

now in playoffs i agree over the season has been great but we need rounds brother we need playoff rounds we do we talked about a round one win on leafs talk last year. Like 60,000 people were listening. It's like, okay. I don't think. Okay. All right. Okay, let's get to our first Kippers Clipper. Is it off the rails already? Yes, we're way off the rails.

45 minutes away still. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on his thoughts of having no Mitch Marner. He is progressing. He's scared the last few days. So that's progress for sure. The plan is for him to take tomorrow off again and then get back to it. But yeah, he's skating.

He was out there for a good bit today before practice. So he's making progress, but not available this weekend. The bottom line is have him ready a month from now i think it's one of those things that like tell me when he's ready and then we're gonna give him an extra week you know like one of those let's just really be sure i think there's three to four to five sports science guys that are really, really earning their paycheck right now. Well, let me say this, and I think I've said it before, but if your job is sports science, medical, whatever, and a guy comes back too late, so he's extra healthy, nothing happens. If it's a day early and he gets hurt, you're fired.

Oh, yeah, you're done. They are not incentivized. The cooks are in the kitchen right now being like, let's sit a little longer. Let's sit a little longer. I would be scared, too, for my job security. Mitch Marner? If he comes back and re-aggravates it or re-injures it,

now you're completely, completely flirting with losing him in the playoffs. Yes. I mean, you're very likely to. Right now, it's a month. So my best guess is we are under a month until playoffs. I'm going to say it starts four weeks from now, something like that, maybe four weeks in a day. Now, if they're going to go to the length that they're going now

where they miss miss he misses tomorrow night versus one of the hottest teams in hockey and the edmonton oilers i i'd be hard pressed to play him 24 hours later no he's got what's the point carolina he just said he's in that clip he's not oh he's not in that game okay no gone all weekend so the focus is tuesday then okay i thought maybe there was a chance okay all right devil's tuesday yeah go ahead yeah so tuesday tuesday thursday yeah new jersey devils washington capitals in toronto this upcoming week so yeah that makes sense i'm just looking at watch the capitals again i'm looking at text line here a lot of people say the show is better when they lose.

Well, there's more fire. There's definitely more fire. Yeah, like I would say 85% of the texts are saying it's better when they lose. But they'd still rather them win, so... Yeah, it's a funny thing, isn't it? Because they know how they're going to act when they lose. To remember a quote from my good friend, Brian Leach, seconds after we won the cup on the ice,

it was like, okay, what do we do now? And Brian Leach says, I don't know. Let's go ask mess. Because you just don't know how to react. You just don't know. That react. You just don't know. That's what I do with my hands. So it's like Leaf fans now. If they win in the playoffs, it's like, okay, what do we do now?

One of the great jokes in the station from longtime host Roger Lejoie was that the Leafs win the cup and he'd be doing a call-in show the next day and they'd be like, well, what are we going to do about the fourth line next year? Just habit. It's so true. It's like, what do you do? That's an old newspaper. You can write a Pulitzer-winning article.

What are you writing tomorrow? Mitch Marner isn't the only one out. TJ Brody will miss a second consecutive start from a coach's decision. Let's go to Sheldon Keefe on clip number two on TJ. Brods is a better player than he's played, and he's also played better hockey than it perceives or than the perception might be. You know, it's a guy that's taken on the hardest minutes

and hardest matchups of anybody on our team, and he's got, you know, plus minus is what what it is but it's when you've got the hardest matchups and you're still finding ways to be on the positive side you're doing lots of good things there but i think uh we and he acknowledged that he could be better and we need him at his best so you know if we have to take a step back for in order for that to be the case, then that's what we'll do, and that's where we're at right now. That was good. You know, a lot of truth in that, but also a lot of like, hey, this is a guy we need.

You know, he's been put in tough positions. We know he can be better, and we need him. So what you're saying is on Tortorella. Oh, yeah. Very on Tortorella. The trivia did notorturella. Oh, yeah. Very untorturella. Peturio did not get that support. That's true. Wouldn't it have been hilarious if he just said,

I'm not talking about TJ Brody? Yeah, not talking about TJ. It's between me and TJ. And send out Guy Boucher. I forgot he's existing. We haven't heard from him all year. Play the second clip, too, there. The Keef clip three.

And he goes even further detail on what, because he got asked what do you want to see from him. Yes. And that's what, didn't they ask that exact question to Torts? And he said, basically, it's like it's between me and Sean or whatever. But so listen to what he said here. Yeah, that's a big part of it. That's the mental part of it.

He said a tough go here right from the beginning of training camp all the way through. And because of the demands that we put on him, he hasn't really had time to breathe and regroup and find himself. And I think that's kind of where we're at. We've added some defensive depth here, obviously, at the trade deadline, and we're in a different position as a team than we were. So we get a chance, as I said, to really help Rhodes and the mental part of it.

I think we're hoping re-energizes him, and with that comes an extra step. And, you know, when you have an extra step, all of a sudden the puck moves quicker, all of a sudden you're defending less, and all these sorts of things start to fall into place. But, you know, the most important thing right now for us is just to, you know, give him the time that he needs to get back to being himself because, like I said, he's a very, very important piece of our team. When he's at his best, he's as good a defender as we have and reliable and consistent a guy as we have.

So we've got to get him to that. Wow. I get it. It's kind of daunting when you look at past Riley and McCabe that your next two pairs are Benoit Timmons and Edmondson and Lilligren and Labushkin's on the outside looking in right now but yeah he's coming back from being sick so I think he's probably going to take tomorrow night off as well and then maybe still yeah it was his first time back in the ice since the Carolina game

so yeah he's been fighting it so he's gonna miss tomorrow too Bro he's going to miss tomorrow too. Brody's supposed to be a little bit of a buffer between Riley and McCabe and your next pair. Yeah, for sure. It's just, you know, I don't think a lot of the off-ice stuff too. Like Brody lost a family member this year, if I'm not mistaken. And it's been a challenge in a number of ways, I think, for for him this season so yeah that's the human side of it for sure you know yeah that's relevant so get him back in a spot where he's feeling better about things i like the idea of like him and edmondson or someone someone else that can kind of help him out a little bit because

he has eaten the brunt of it and i keith points out his plus minus that was interesting he wants us to go look that up it is the best among leafs d yeah this year despite that yeah i you know i i think we've been you know appropriately hard on keith over the the season for sure and you know it's it's the the i guess the being a radio show that talks about the lease every day you're going to talk about the coach we'd listen to his clips but i will give him credit for how he's handling this you know this is a guy that's one of the, you know, he's been with this team, this is his fourth year, right?

He signed a four-year contract. This is his final year. He's been with this team of four years. He's been one of your best guys, and he's clearly fighting it. He takes him out of the lineup. He gives detailed answers on why. Talks about how he still thinks he,

you know, he's a great player for the team. Like, to me, if you're going to scratch a core member of a team, this is kind of how you handle it. And I think he's doing a good job of it. I have to give him credit. Yeah. But you got to remember, too, that...

I'm not debating with you. I'm not conversing with you. I'm not debating with you. I'm not conversing with you. He also has developed his coaching through Kyle Dubas, who's been that guy. That it's kinder, it's gentler. It's not, it's, like I said, it's unlike Tortorella.

Yes, right. That is the way they go about things is different than Torts. Much different. And we can also sit here and debate sometimes where that line is and how is it too soft? Is it too coddling? Is it too warm blanket around you? Or sometimes tougher love is in order sometimes.

You know what I think the most important thing is, and we can disagree on whether you should be harder or kinder or whatever the heck it is, it's just authenticity. You just can't pretend to be a hard guy when you're not. You can't pretend to be a hard guy when you're not you can't pretend to be you know the opposite either it's so you've all of a sudden torts was you know telling us that he just wants everyone to do their best we'd be like i'm sorry like that's not who you are yeah it's a good point where he's just like maybe you don't expect him to explain it about why so maybe it's stupid to get bent out of shape about it but just when you hear i just think

it's very fascinating that literally like a day later we get bent out of shape about it. But just when you hear, I just think it's very fascinating that literally like a day later, we get the coach of the Leafs taking the exact opposite sort of tact compared to what Torsten was saying. Someone who's arguably less important, not to say he's not important. Yeah, anyways. And that's the beauty of coaching is that You can do it a bunch of different ways.

You can do it a bunch of different ways. You find out that break point, and you're judged by the results at the end of the day. For sure. We'll see how this thing plays out in the coming days or weeks for TJ Brody. Two things I want to talk about. One of them is the third line is presently constructed. They put Robertson down on the fourth line. presently constructed they put robertson down on

the fourth line robertson stunk the other night i thought yeah and so he's on a fourth line with holmberg and reeves right now doer i know what is that i don't know it's a franken line and then doer is with camp and gregor is a third line which is also really what are your thoughts on connor doer in his what's it been five games or something since the deadline i don't mind him at all it works right i i see a guy that's feisty i see i hear his name he's in plays he he's along the walls yeah penalty kill he seems to have a specific role and be content with it he's right where we thought he'd be. Yeah. In the bottom six, fourth-line type of guy that you hope is feeling very comfortable

by the first round and providing some energy. And just those lines, just to note that Bertuzzi was on audit practice because of illness again today. So I would imagine if you were looking at the lines that I put in there, you could picture... Burt's probably there.

Robertson's probably out. McMahon moves down. Burt goes up on the top line or whatever. But I think Robertson will probably be out when it's all said and done. Doerr's interesting. He scored 40 goals, well, 38 and 36 goals a couple years in the dub. Like, you know, I haven't seen any offensive ability out of him at the NHL level, but he does everything else well.

Yeah, to me, he's a guy that you can picture playing in responsible minutes for you in a playoff. You're going to put him out there, and he'll give you 9, 10 solid minutes in a playoff series. That's not going to kill you. He'll protect a lead. You're okay with him going over the board. Skates hard.

He's young. Seems feisty. Also on the ice just prior to practice, Matt Murray taking shots. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. He's ready to go. So what does that mean? It means that he'll get assessed early April.

He'll hopefully get medical clearance, and he's right in the mix like he could be an option for the leafs in playoffs he could be an option for the toronto maple leafs yes you heard it here first he said murray he said moving well a long way away according to keith how long can't you see this like air buds what do you want to say he's really close here and now we got now we got uh four guys that we can pick from you've been on the murray beat early like you definitely know something i know he's itching there's something that like there's certain things that you bring up that i'm just like could they get him hl games so you could have yes they can i would love to see if you know let's say he gets five American League games.

I think it's an automatic that he's going to go play some games for the Toronto Marlies. I wonder if he could play for them in playoffs. What's their schedule? Like, do they line up the same as like a... No, but close. Okay. So if he needed to go down there for a conditioning stint in the last first two weeks of April, would they be playing then?

Right? Yeah, they are okay yeah okay and it's not an option that the lease could resign him for next year not an option it there's it's not not an option like gotcha it's not not not not an option so what you're saying is it's an option like he could find himself on uh on a low contract to get himself back in the mix. I have a contract. Like 750, bro? I don't know what that number would be.

I don't know. I bet you, though, if he's healthy. No one's giving him a one-way. Nobody. Oh, yeah. No one in the league's giving him a one-way contract. I'm not doing this again. Oh, yeah.

There's no way. Oh, yeah. What do you mean you're not doing it? He's getting a one-way contract. I'm not doing this again. Oh, yeah. There's no way. Oh, yeah. What do you mean you're not doing it? He's getting a one-way contract next year. With whom? I don't know who. Whomst is signing Matt Murray? I'm telling you there would be enough interest

with what is perceived as a healthy Matt Murray. Six foot four, 30-year-old, two-time Stanley Cup champion. Is he 30 yet? Not yet, but he will be be that's a young goalie yeah with a ton of experience uh anyways we'll keep an eye on that storyline as well we have one more clip on matthews and domi uh who are playing together together again tomorrow night so before before we play that can i ask something yes we're doing a contract thing with matt murgan so on the contract thing because you know we love to do this what's what's it like usually morgan riley is playing

with jake mccabe uh tonight or tomorrow night yes and mccabe's been really good he's become like one of their shutdown guys he's also scored seven even strength goals which you know for d-man pretty good he's definitely changed the way the perception of himself he's coming off a four million dollar contract he has next year yeah and then he's eligible to re-sign a deal what kind of money would jake mccabe be looking at as a ufa as a potential oh gosh you're a long ways away here i don't know you can sign him next year yeah you can sign him this summer couldn't you july you can resign him but like if jake mccabe is averaging 18 20 minutes from here on in and they win a couple of rounds they get themselves in a conference final then you're talking about a healthy raise yeah you know like you only need a team to believe in you and i would be that

general manager with jake mccabe yesterday's price is not today's price he's playing 2035 for the leafs right now uh on the back end if if i asked you the a question here and we know where he is on the pecking order for the toronto maple leafs but if you were talking about a defensive core that you thought was a legitimate stanley cup contender is he in your top four can he play that role in my second pair you can have him on your second pair yeah i agree with you that he's not a first pair yeah stanley cup winning preferably playing with a really good right hand shot on the other side sure which the Leafs have clearly I think if he can clean up some hiccups yeah sometimes I you do see the the he's asked for a decision

oh no number one is uh set a physical presence yeah you know and he has i i don't mind him at all i think he's he's got some edge some attitude uh go back to boston and a couple little cross checks into marshand which yeah i got loved and we all loved like hold on did you see that video i did the mic'd up with marshand did you see that i couldn't believe the Bruins willingly tweeted that out. Marchand's saying you're going to get it. I didn't know where it came from. The Bruins official account tweeted it out, and he was like screaming in the ref's face and crying. I also tweeted him lining up against Marner saying,

you cross-checked me in the face, you're going to get it. You're going to get it to Marner. And then turtle twice in that game. Is this bad of me now? Because anything I see on the internet, I tend to not. You think it's fake? I think it to Marner. And then turtle twice in that game. Is this bad of me now? Because anything I see on the internet, I tend to not.

I think it's fake. I think it's all fake. No, that's, that's the proper reaction. You should start from there. And I, I watch that and the first thing is,

is that really true? Does, does it match up? Did they put his voice in? Like, no, this is healthy. This is great.

Everyone should start from the, this probably isn't real and needs to be proven to me that it is, standpoint on the internet. You know, not to age shame anybody here, but like the actual reaction from most people, you know, getting close to your age would be like, wow, this is crazy. 100% real. But the fact that you have that cynicism, very good.

Yeah. Very good, Kip. I'm not calling you old, by the way, buddy. No, no. You're spry. But. Very good, Kip. Oh, yeah. I'm not calling you old, by the way, buddy. No, no. You're spry. But we've all received a thing or two from you. I'm the guy that walks into a restaurant bar and puts myself up against the wall. I have nothing behind me.

I'm the dinosaur. Nothing behind me. Don't trust anything. Anything coming at me, I can see. This guy's going to Duke's up like the fighting Irish logo at all times. He's going to the washroom and checking behind the toilet for the gun. God, I'd never be too sure. Oh, man. He dukes up the fighting Irish logo at all times. He's going to the washroom and checking behind the toilet for the gun. Godfather. Never be too sure.

Do you want to play the last clip we have about Matthews and Domi playing together again? Absolutely. All right, let's do it. There's parts of their game, not unlike Mitch and Austin, that fit really well. Max looks to make plays and has the ability to make plays. I think any time something fresh and new know, it works well and feels good early and you kind of ride that a little bit. So that's where those guys are at right now.

So there's some of that, I think. And then some of it, as I say, it's just a fit with the chemistry of the group. And, you know, with Mitch and Yarncroft being out, we felt like we needed more depth and more skill, in particular on the wings. So that's changed how we've approached things with Max. And, you know, this connection that those guys have made, you know, we've benefited from and look to ride that.

Yeah, I think tomorrow night's one of those, where's this going? And just hearing Sheldon seconds ago say, we're going to try to ride that, or let's see what kind of momentum it can keep going here. Saturday night, tomorrow night's a big night for many ways. But I do hear a hesitant coach that doesn't want to go ahead and blow that line up i hear him say yeah there's parts of their game that fit really well like which is saying i'm not talking about the parts that i think don't fit really well and he says

yeah but sometimes when things are new they you know they they seem new and exciting connect like he seems like i'm not sure if we did this for a long period of time it would work for us it seems to me the the implication there, but that's me with my Coach Dakota ring on, my Sheldon Keefe Dakota ring. You don't. Yeah. Can I ask you guys a quick question about Nyes,

who I see in the top line here? Absolutely. And I'm sure if Bertuzzi's feeling well enough, he'll slide into that spot and Nyes will move down or whatever. But in that, doing that, Robertson moves into the lineup. You know, give him a night. Why does Nyes,

like Nyes seems to be Teflon as opposed to Robertson who really comes out of the lineup pretty much at every turn. And I'm not saying

that I'm a big fan of Robertson at all. I would say I'm the opposite in fact. But Nyes for long stretches of this season has not been great and it feels like one guy gets

way more rope than the other there's a very easy answer there's a very yeah well that's part of it but part of it is when he's not scoring he doesn't hurt you but he you know he's in the right spots he checks yeah i'm not as high on that part no in his game no there's some times when i think uh things blow up on him his head's down a couple times i think he can get rocked which we saw earlier so i i think it's just a learning experience i'm i'm leaning towards our boy here sammy, on maybe too much sometimes. I'd be fine with a scratch or two. I would absolutely be fine with that. But I think that in the absence of either guy producing offense,

I'll tell you which guy I'd rather have on the ice. Yeah. And it's nice. It's fair. But I would have no opposition to that scratch. I'm sure Robertson's sitting there being like, really? Yeah, this guy too. Yeah, he's got eight goals all year. got ten and a half the games or something he has all the

makings to be a front line forward right left winger yeah but i see a lot of college stuff that he got away with that he can't get away with here absolutely a lot of hockey well listen a lot of minutes you're you're you're you were asked predominantly to play with one of the best goal scorers in the game right now and playmakers in Marner. And look at Max. Max is a veteran. He makes better plays than Nyes. Yep.

And he has a night where he can get four assists playing with a guy like Matthews, whereas Nyes can't do that. Definitely not. Matthews has had great nights, and he has not been able to ride the coattails or ride with them. Definitely. Nyes is another guy, and the Leafs have so many of these,

I can see him in his best career season having 30 and 20 for 50 points type of thing. I can see him in his best career season having 30 and 20 for 50 points type of thing i can see him scoring but i can't i would think that's a disappointment on the build-up of matthew nyes if he turns into a 50 point guy and he doesn't end up like a 70 it doesn't it depends to me on how he gets there yeah if he starts to figure out that he's a huge guy and starts running guys over and starts being in people's faces like he was when he fought against pittsburgh they're all fired up tom wilson's 50 points even come close to that no so what makes you think that he will be that guy if if he if he has a night like that where he fights and everybody gives him all these accolades and says whoa that's great

that's exactly what the team needs and then you spend the next 30 games not looking like that. Do you like his chances of having that type of career now? No, and I don't think it's right to ask him to be that. If he's not, you know, he's not a fighter. He didn't come here to be that. There's no ask. When you're that young and you're just breaking in the league and the canvas is completely clean,

there's no real ask other than go. Contribute. Go. Be. Discover yourself. canvas is completely clean. There's no real ask other than go contribute, go be discover yourself. Are you a goal scorer? Are you a checker? Are you a tough guy? What are you go? Let us,

let us know by your play. Like, I think he missed a, a bit of a window here to turn himself into something. But to your point, if it was never in him to begin with, I don't know. I don't know if we were going to still see that power type of in him to begin with i don't know i don't know if we were going to still see that power type of guy no and i you know it totally i don't necessarily agree that he missed any kind of window he's played 60 nhl games now or whatever it is you

know where he's no he's your point go and figuring it out he could have picked a few more spots to drop his gloves and turned himself into a huge hero. But he may not want to be that player. No question he doesn't after witnessing probably the last 30 or 40 games since that moment. But listen, he's going to score himself 15 goals on the season or something like that. And I can see him. I like the way he is with the puck in terms of puck possession

and kind of using his body to hold guys off. I see a 30-go scorer in this player. And so if he's that to Sam's point, who's also net front and physical on the puck and Zach Hyman on the four check, you love it. But to your point, if he's just skating around and not involved until he gets his goals like

Nick Robertson, it's different. So Chris Crider, can he turn himself into Chris Crider? Yeah. Chris Crider is so fast. It's, I don't know that nice

chris crider is it scored 50 yeah he's a huge guy physical presence i i to me i don't know he's had he's had he's had criders had challenges over his career yeah of of looking like a world class star and then some nights it's just not there doesn't have any edge either right he's just a big guy who can tip the puck and be in those spots. And so maybe that's Nyes. You hope he's more physical than that and hopefully with some confidence

he finds some of what you're talking about. But I don't think he's ever going to drop the gloves a lot. My expectations for Nyes have definitely shifted. Yeah. After seeing like from what I was told he is to what I've seen so far, I would say it's a different player than I thought. Which is fine.

A year and a half ago, a year and a half ago, he was cowing. Don't, he's untouchable. He's going to be a star. He's going to be this. He's going to be that.

Is that fair to say? Absolutely. But people, I mean, I mean, I had him in a tracer. He'd be a star. No one said he'd be a star.

You yourself had him as a third liner. You on the show said, I see him as a guy who's going to come in and third line no but i'm talking about the perception he was built up for sure as a can't miss don't even think about trading definitely that was if we did trade him on the show a couple yeah i traded him for timo meyer let's go to break yeah all right we're gonna go to break we'll welcome in luca, NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. Always a fun guest to have on our show. We're back after these words on Off the Rails Friday.

Real Kipper and Born. The best Blue Jays show out there, period. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get right to it. Luke Fox, NHL writer for sportsnet.ca. Let's welcome him in.

Luke, there's what, 14 games left in the toronto maple leaf season and no mitch marner no tj brody yet there is a there's a vibe led by our boy sammy here on tomorrow night he's giddy about this game but are we gonna look back at this game after it's done and reassess the Toronto Maple Leafs to measure up against the Oilers to say whether or not this team has a legit chance of going anywhere in the playoffs or they stink? Yeah, that's a good point, Nick. I think there is something to it. You're right.

It is kind of hard to judge them entirely with no Marner, no Yarncroft, no Brody, who is going through a couple of healthy scratches right now, but we firmly expect to be back in game one. But you look at the schedule, and there's so few games that have a chance to mean something in terms of a measuring stick, in terms of how do they look against a true contender and this is one of them you know they got the carolina hurricane sunday but they're going to be tired off of back to back uh you know they finished the season in tampa and florida which on paper could be good games but by that point we might be into total load management for all

the teams involved because we fully expect the playoff positioning to be locked in by then. So we might see, you know, a lot of superstars sit. This might be one of the last great chances to see how they look against a legit team. The Oilers are coming off a win. They're going to get a night's rest. So, you know, Saturday night, spotlight's on.

I expect a good one. And, you know, you think back to, to some of the, the big nights Connor has had in Toronto, you know, with fans, it's only once a year. People still talk about the night.

Cadre shut them down. They still talk about how McDavid put Morgan Riley on a poster coming over the blue line. That one game in Toronto. So, you know, you know, Edmonton's going to bring it.

So Toronto better too yeah um the Edmonton Oilers are coming in with the second best power play in the league this year which is a step down from where they're usually at the Leafs penalty kill stinks uh how concerned are you like going into playoffs I looked at the best penalty kills and it's like the other five top division or top teams in the and the Leafs are 24th or something. How worried should fans be and the Leafs be about the quality of their kill? Yeah, they should be worried. I think because we've seen it in the past, right? We've seen them get undone by not having as strong special teams as the team they're facing over a seven-game series. It's done them in the past.

So that's probably in the back of fans' mind for sure, the coaches' mind for sure, and it might be back of the players' mind. So of all the teams headed to the playoffs, if we were to cut it off and start the postseason tomorrow, the Leafs would have the worst PK of the bunch. And you know management

is paying attention because all three guys, depth guys, but all three guys that went out and added at the trade deadline, Dewar, Labushkin, Edmondson, they all kill penalties. So they know, they're aware that this is an area that needs improvement. And we haven't quite seen it yet. And, you know, again, it's like, OK, no Marner, no Yarncroft. But are they is it going to instantly snap into place when they're at full health? And, you know, the hope is a deep run,

and you're not going to have all your penalty killers for four rounds. So it is a point of weakness, and I think it puts even more stress on the power play. That needs to be sharp. It got a goal last game. It's coming around a little bit, but it sagged at the beginning of March too. So, you know, hopefully the penalty kill can be sharper,

but the power play needs to pick them up as well. We're talking to Luke Fox, NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. So if we set aside the Leafs versus the Oilers, can we kind of bring in Austin Matthews versus McDavid? And they've had some good showings in the past, but right now it's a three-horse race for an MVP with Kucherov, McKinnon, McDavid, despite Matthews leading the league in goals.

So how much is there to gain for Austin Matthews tomorrow night? Well, I believe that, you know, the guys that are at the top of the top, the super elite, like to compare themselves to each other. You know, you can't tell me that McDavid didn't want to see if he'd go out and get 60 goals after watching, you know, someone like Austin do it last year just to see if he could. And now he's, you know, toned it down a little bit, mixed in a few more passes. But I do think the best of the best in all team sports, you know, like to measure themselves up against one another. Now, Austin today was asked about that, and he said,

oh, that's more of a fan thing, more of a media thing. You guys blow it up. We see them only twice a year. But I've been in the building for a lot of these games, whether it's out in Edmonton or in Toronto, and there's extra juice in the building. And Noah Greger was saying today that, you know, we're fans of the game too.

We like to see the best of the best go head to head. So there'll be a little something there, but the Stars like to downplay it. One thing I don't think we heard from Sheldon Keefe on this weekend is what's up with the goaltending situation. Is there any sort of indication about who may play which game yeah he wasn't asked about that so we don't have an answer and i think it's pretty fascinating because i do think it's telling it's telling that joseph wall got both the boston

bruins games uh now we lost them both gave up four and both uh so that put them behind the eight ball a little bit but i think you know they tried to couch it around hey we're just playing the schedule just we're just playing the calendar both guys are going to get work but the same guy got the team that they're probably going to face in the playoffs and i think that was a test a challenge and it was also maybe tipping their hand of who they thought their number one was at that point now a few games have passed samson off has racked up some wins um so maybe the their view has changed a little bit so i'm very curious to see who gets the start tomorrow because i think even though carolina is a legit contender as well

you know it's it's the second half of the back-to-back it's on the road not at home um i i think we're going to know what they know who they're leaning towards a little bit by who gets the tap on the shoulder tomorrow. All right, Luke, I'm not busting on you because I know you do a terrific job. Okay. Why wasn't he asked about the goalies? Is that

just you guys around the coffee shop going, oh, geez, we forgot to ask that one. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes that happens. There's a few other storylines going on. But you're right. It should have been asked.

Me, myself, I wasn't there. I'm having some load management. There you go. That's why it wasn't asked. You weren't there. What's funny is that we're literally like, that's not like Luke would ask that. Yes. Luke would piss him off.

Yes. I'm TJ him off. Yes. I'm TJ Brody right now. I need some mental clarity for the stretch run. Well, that explains everything. You weren't there to ask the tough question. That's all we had. That actually makes a lot of sense. When you are at the rink this week,

any eyebrows raised on Marner's timeline? And is it more serious than they led on is this them just being overly cautious cautious of a a guy that they need so badly in the first round yeah overly cautious I think that's it um but it is kind of curious like now we're talking so he's he's not going to play Saturday or Sunday so So now this is seven games. And the way they were talking about the ankle injury at the beginning, they made it seem really minor. But seven games seems like a lot. Not even practicing with the team yet.

You know, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and take them for their word, saying they're just being extra cautious. And you look where they are in the standings, there is zero need to rush this guy back. You want him feeling great for game one. So I understand it, but it keeps dragging on. The whole day-to-day from being day-to-day thing is lingering here. Yeah, that's an absolutely insane comment.

That's not day-to-day at all. We've never heard that before in our lives. That's not what that means. Yeah. How about the viability of Domi with, with Matthews? Do you think that's something we could see stick in a playoff round? I think Marner goes back there.

I do once he's healthy, but I'm not, I'm a little bit confused why it took them so long to at least try this. I mean, especially when you look at the first half of the year when Domi's fit was up in the air, Bertuzzi's fit was up in the air. Both those guys were slow to get going, and it's like outside of Marner, who's your best distributor? Who's your best passer?

I think it's Max Domi. He was kind of lingering there on the third line, second line, finally gets his shot, and it's kind of lingering there on the third line, second line, finally gets his shot. And it's like, bang, it clicks. You know, they combined for nine points last game. Albeit, I'm not, you know, I wasn't thrilled with Washington's defense or its goaltending or anything. It's going to be a different story in the playoffs. But, yeah, there's definitely chemistry there.

So, you know, I think when Marner's healthy, Marner gets that spot back. But if, you know, the opposition is shutting them down in a playoff series, Keefe now knows he has a great second option and he knows Matthew's domey work. And part of it is because one wants to shoot first, one wants to pass first.

Part of it also is, I I think those guys understand each other. They spend a lot of time off the ice together. They sit at the back of the plane together. They've known each other since Domi was a coyote because Matthews trains with a lot of coyotes in the summer. So there's a relationship there. And, I mean, that's a small piece. You still have to have the on-ice chemistry.

But they get along. They kind of read each other well. And, you know, they. They kind of read each other well, and they're big fans of one another, and if Matthews likes you, if he likes you on his line, there's a good chance you're going to stay on his line. Well, is there a good chance that he could also re-sign? It didn't seem

that long ago we were talking about Max Domi. Where's the fit to is the narrative now for some we need to re-sign him? Well, he's been a great leaf, right? He's well-liked amongst his teammates. He's been versatile.

His attitude's been good, even when he's been slumping or when he's been stuffed down in the bottom six. I was a little bit on the fence with the signing, to be honest, and he's exceeded my expectations in terms of his versatility. We all know his warts in the defensive zone when he doesn't have the puck but he's a heck of a playmaker he's one of the fastest guys on the team and he has one of the best attitudes he's definitely a team first guy like he he won i think the run in dallas gave him a taste right of going deep um you know he's been on a lot of bad teams over the years. And I think now that he's tasted coming close,

he really wants a cup. So I think they should consider it. I don't think there's going to be enough money to bring back Bertuzzi and Domi. But of the two, the fact that one can play center when you need them to, I'd be leaning there. All right, Luke, we'll let you go. Appreciate your time, especially on your off day.

Yeah, keep up your good work when you get back. We cannot have the rest of the media asking all these soft questions. I don't need you in there. This is your last day off, okay? I'll take a run at them tomorrow morning, don't worry. All right, Luke Fox from sportsnet.ca. So what is Max Domi worth to resign? I love this.

You literally lit up like a Christmas tree. Love it. It's a twinkle in your eye. It's back. Money, money, money, money. I'd give him the same amount of money for three years. Yeah, that's not happening. Well, I'm a bad negotiator.

And a bag of chips. I'm not sure it works. So he's going to get more than three years for a long time? Because then he's got to be careful for me. What's he going to finish with? I think it's been really, really hard. Yeah. 40 points.

39, sorry. Is he going to finish with 50? I'm sorry. How many points does he have? He has 40 points. 40 points. Yeah. 39, yeah.

Is he going to finish with 50? He's got eight goals. Yeah, I know. I know. But there's others that... I'm harder on him than you guys are. I have liked him a lot lately. I struggle to find a fit.

When I build lines for this team, I find myself consistently going, if he plays left wing with Matthews and Marner... But every once in a while, you need a bit of a, as to Luke's point yeah you need that utility utility guy for sure that can i think he's a good player both sides it's depth it's competitive he can score he can power play he can can't score but yes he can create make plays he can rip it make plays yeah he can he can he can absolutely rip it he needs 14 seconds to get it off but he

can absolutely rip it i i just think it's get it off, but he can absolutely rip it. I just think it's a big risk to do any sort of term. And here's what I think, Kip. I think he is good enough that someone should give him term and money. I just don't know if it's Trump. Well, yeah, to your point, everybody's getting a raise around him. What about one year at $4 million? He's not going to want to sign one year. No, nor should he. But didn't he come here and say that he was million he's not gonna want to sign one year no nor should he but

didn't he come here and say that he was because he's talking about i guess it's talk is cheap in the off season after you sign a contract but you know he's played on all these teams and he wants to find a home and he's come here 29 years old looking for his last big contract if he can get one and he loves loves being a leaf and i think that's endearing too and he's played for half a dozen teams all one year deals do is leave you exposed to go find another team so he's going to be looking for three four five years next year at a bump up of three million dollars i don't think there's a lot. There's a, there's a long way to go before that happens.

And let's see how the rest of this season plays out. Let's see what kind of success he can have in the playoffs, which lately has shown that he can contribute to big games in the playoffs too. Yep. So there is value there. And I think it's a value at a raise. How much of a raise is up to him and how he

conducts himself from here on in if you had to pick between him and bertuzzi to resign which one would you go it's not close for me bertuzzi yeah okay yeah i'm i like max because i think max is something that also and luke chuck touched this, the attitude. He gives them a little bit of a strut. You listen to his interviews. I like his social media presence. It's inclusive. It's we. He's a good guy. It's a we. It's not a me. It's not an

I. It's we. And that's obviously a hockey background. And yeah, and as a fan is why I am on the show the my my passion detector is it goes it's off the charts with him yeah oh he guy cares and loves being a leaf and you can tell and by the guys who went after this year including uh gudas bennett marsh and marsh and yeah he gets it he does he gets it some attitude baby yeah but i'm not giving him any more

than three million dollars for one three by three let's go three by three would be ideal but he's not doing that right kippy let's see how it finishes maybe okay maybe it's more if you're his agent what are you asking for if they're at if they went to him right now and they're like we want to do a contract here his agent which i know you that's what you wanted, we want to do a contract, here's agent, which I know that's what you would love to do. What would you ask for? I'd be up around four. For how long? Minimum three years. I think he'd look at $11 to $12 million for three years.

Okay. Right? 50-point guy. Elevated salary cap. We'll table it and talk about it. At least our money. I think I'd do it. Okay. Our thanks to Luke Fox.

And when we return, the top of the hour, we lead it off with Doug McClain. Didn't get his golf in. He's going to be crusty. It's raining down there. We'll get his thoughts on Tortorella. And also Zach Hyman. We're going to try to track down the soon-to-be 50-goal score

for the Edmonton Oilers. There's plenty more. Real Kipper and Bourne soon. Do not go away.