Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Moving on From Marner

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

The markets are open! Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee react to the latest moves around the NHL before diving deep into Mitch Marner's official departure from the Toronto Maple Leafs as they send him to Vegas for Nicolas Roy. They discuss how Marner will be remembered in Toronto, what Roy brings, and how the Leafs' negotiations with Mitch fell apart. Then, they get into Brock Boeser's surprising 7-year deal with the Canucks, Matias Maccelli's outlook in 2025, what the Leafs are getting in Michael Pezzetta, Steven Lorentz leaving money on the table, the decision to not qualify Pontus Holmberg and much more.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, settling in on this Canada day. Nick Kiprios, Justin Barnes, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo and Jake the Snake Schultz. July 1st NHL signing season. We're live on Sportsnet 590, the fans, Sportsnet 360 and Sportsnet. July 1 NHL signing season. We're live on Sportsnet 590 the fans Sportsnet 360 and Sportsnet plus this hour of real kipper and born brought to you by bet 365. Sit back relax for the next couple hours. Like have a cold one or two.

Pizzetta elite prospects.com. The news will continue to filter in. We will go through all of the names in the next two hours. So don't worry about it. We'll have some good conversations on what we like, what we don't like. Clearly the biggest story the last 24 hours, Sammy. Yeah. The official news that Mitch Marner was in fact

signed and traded. Not often that we see this this time of year, but it definitely happened the way we probably thought it was gonna happen. Full credit to you for a non-insider. I think you nailed his exact contract and the trade. So, you know, congrats there. By the way, Pizzetta, two years times 787,000

for the Toronto May please. My boy Pizzetta, my son. In the city of Toronto, with the cost of living, he'll owe money at the end of this contract. That's a tough one, but he'll be okay. It is really, really tough city. He's not gonna pay for any meals. Tanner Janow in Boston, five years, 3.4 million, quarter tough city. He's not gonna pay for any meals. Tanner Geno in Boston, five years.

3.4 million, according to free. What is with, like, what is going on? Like, he's been bounced around like crazy, he's been valued beyond belief either in- He got traded for an entire draft class from Tampa. A draft class, and even this contract, like, I like him and I get what he brings, but every time I watch this guy, it's like it's not a full meal value here.

A little quieter than you would hope. I get he can beat people up. I get he's scary when he fights. He can beat people up. He can score 20 goals. He can do things. But he not enough for anybody to want to keep them for very long. No, you're, you know, I had said that I would like the player

for the Leafs, but now that they have my, they have discount. Dollar Store Genoa. Dollar Store Genoa and Pizzetta. Oh, that's wonderful. Okay, the Mitch Marner era in Toronto is officially over. And now, tell me something something is this something that we're gonna see over the next week the next summer or the next year that people will continually discuss this to the point where we have to crown them a hero or a

villain or is this just gonna die down? You know, I think everyone is justified in getting it out of their systems right now. You know, like this is- That's a good way of putting it. Right, I mean, this is, God, it's led to a real head here and we finally got movement. We know he went to Vegas.

I think there's been a lot written. Luke Fox wrote an excellent piece on him on sportsnet.ca, which I highly recommend you check out. I know the Athletic did a couple. Down Goes Brown Sean McIndoe did a piece where he argued with himself about Marner being both a you know hero and a villain. So yes that's all happening right now. I do think that this is all gonna soften with time for Marner and the perception of his time here in Toronto. You know, I think a pretty good kid

who probably took it pretty hard and you know, it goes two ways and all that. But I think once it works through this initial assessment, I think it'll be okay. I mean, Vince Carter has his number hanging in the rack or the Scorsia Bank Arena, so anything's possible. But I do think for the first couple years of this, it'll be pretty bad, I would imagine.

I think, yeah, you're right. I don't know, I don't know who actually goes to games versus the online perception. Because I think any social media for any fan base of any team, it's not gonna be pretty for a lot of this stuff. And I think the disconnect between who actually attends games versus who is sending

you know Instagram DMs and commenting it's a very different group of people so I'm sure there'll be a light smattering of booze when he returns to Scotiabank Arena. It might be stronger than that. I don't know maybe I'm way off on this but I really don't think like how those people are just you know they're at getting red wine. I think it's a very different maybe from the upper deck. The booze will be coming down, but I you know, I can't help but sit here and say that it's a pretty bad day for the Leafs and for Mitch Marner in terms of just legacies on

both sides. It's tough. So, no winners. No winners. I think the direct correlation between booze or cheers is directly related to where the success of the team is at that point. Great point. Right? Yeah, like if the team's struggling. First of all, is Vegas coming in in October or are they coming in in March? Are the Leafs comfortably leading the Atlantic division? Are they chasing a

wild card spot? Where are the Leafs? Did they just win four in a row? Did they lose four in a row when he comes in? That to me will be the biggest telling tale of where they are reminded when Mitch Marner comes in town. And if he's part of the problem of what's happening in that present moment. But if the relationship with him and the reaction to him is that lightly affected by things like schedule, performance, whatever. I think that's a good thing long term for Mitch as things soften and

you get away from it. You know, if it is in the first year affected by how they're doing at that moment, I think long term is a good thing. The Vince Carter thing is why I'm talking like this. Mitch didn't come out and say F the city of Toronto or anything like that. You know, he didn't want to be here. Carters was really ugly. Carters is a substantial amount. I can't remember. Just jog my mind. Basically quit on he was like, I'm not going to dunk anymore. He was telling opposing players their plays like on the inbounds, like he was publicly quitting on the Toronto Raptors. Like I think Mitch didn't succeed, but he tried to succeed.

Why is this, why would he? Kipper, that's a great question, buddy. How much time you got? Why is his name up in the Raptors? Because a lot of people don't think it should be. I think because they won. The Toronto Raptors won, and it softened the blow of everything,

and it was just kind of you zoomed out and you're like, oh wow, you know, there was some good times with them in the Carter effect and like all these players and and and and and and teams want to celebrate their past because it ties the those fans to the franchise with nostalgia, right? It it keeps people from this generation grew up watching Mitch and 19 year old right now 20 years from now that guy's 39 he's telling people you should have seen the plays this kid used to make whatever it'll get there for Mitch it isn't there now and I don't think

it should be there now it's going to be much like the Vince Carter thing where there's going to be a certain faction of the fan base and there was a ton of people who I argued with vehement vehemently vehemently. Yeah Thank you. I argued with them that there's no way it should come around There's no way it should come around but there's a huge portion of the time fan base It's a huge effect on the Raptors all that all that and there's a big portion of the Toronto Maple Leafs fan base that still Thinks that Marner this and Marner that they shouldn't let them go all that and it'll just be one of these things that we discussed For the rest of our time. That's just it's sports talk. That's what happens and now it's

Nickwah, baby. I hope that kid also has Like fans should not tie Nick water Mitch Marner at all. He's a player. They acquired there's nothing to do with Marner You'll remember this one for one trade 20 years from now. Yeah, you will remember it just for the sole purpose. Well, just that graphic. Yes, the graphic that they put out the top graphic. It's just would you have passed on that graphic? Well, Vegas put it out. Vegas is like, oh, here you go.

Like, yeah, this is, you know, you know, but it's a little different than a rant. And had we been here sitting here saying Marner walked away for nothing, which he and then they went out and signed Nick Waa. You know, they're separate events to me. It was just like a way to acquire a guy. You think it was real important for Brad Tree Living to not be known for the guy that let him walk out the door for absolutely nothing? Was that part of the equation here? I mean, whether you think it's for perception perception or not He helped the team get better than getting nothing. So yeah, it helps them right now

Right now I think people are looking at it through the lens of getting something for nothing Mm-hmm like having them but I think as time goes on and like you mentioned off the top there kipper The way the play teams play and like as further down the line we get here people's opinions change like wow they should have done earlier their lease are bad now blah blah blah I'm not saying that's the case but people are gonna measure this trade against what happens like progressively as the lease get worse or get better I think I will say since we sat here my brother texts me is Nick wah a good player is he better that better for M? He doesn't like people don't know. Yeah how this all shook out. He's just seems like I like him a lot

He's a playoff type player. He was I think he can he can contribute Yeah, he's like different ways a year, you know something like that. I think he had I think I want to say 12 or 13 points or maybe 11 points in their playoff run when they won the cup. He is a good player He's a third-line center and actually a good one. He's good defensively. He's good. Good. Good. I will say He's a little bit like Stephen Lorenz and that he's very big and does not get upset Except for when he cross-checked who did cross-check in the mouth and overtime Against the oil I just went back and watch his fights in the NHL to date and there's three of them and none of them Didn't he wasn't he the one that got that cross-checked dry settle in the mouth and overtime or somebody got?

This past year. Yeah, he does him. Yeah, and then we discussed if he should get suspended or not He didn't get suspended you got a fine. That's nice Maybe maybe he just demonstrates his frustration via stick more shots to maybe Florida if you get a crack at it again Let's bring on that so much again from the Marner conversations over the past years on, oh God, 12, 13, 13 and a half, 14. Then the rumors started about signing just a two or three or a four year deal. Much surprised to just hear how simple it was,

12 times eight, yeah, Branton and yep. That's a piss off for me. For sure. After being, you know, all these conversations in Toronto. Like it's really, really frustrating that it's like immediately a respectable deal. Like he's right where he should be in terms of value. He's gonna outperform his value over the length of the time.

It's gonna look like a great contract. And if they, and if he signed that here. Totally different. Isn't that maybe just a reflection of just how crazy the media market is on particular stories once they're fixated? Because it was always... The perception up there was it was always about the money for him. And he's greedy and he's,

me and a few others accused of driving his price up and then all of a sudden it's just like 12 times eight. Yeah, but he did it in the tax free thing, right? Like he wanted to go to a tax free place, he went to a tax free place and he got $12 million. Yeah, it wasn't 12.2, it wasn't 12.5. The equivalent of that here as we've talked about. But this is what's frustrating. It's like he's made $100 dollars or seventy or eighty or whatever it is

So now he can not grind for the point two or point four and he did it somewhere else where yeah Suddenly they're gonna have flexibility to add and keep and things that people wanted here. So did it correct me from wrong Can I ask you Kipper? Did because there's that story out there that they made him a huge offer midway through this season. Like to make him the highest paid player in franchise history. Did that happen? Yes.

Okay. Yeah. So- And I've also got a record that said they could offer him $20 million a year and he won't stay. So that's, I mean, that's probably what- That's part of why he's gonna get booed, right? It was never about the money. Right. Yeah, but I mean that's probably what never part of why is getting it was never about the money, right? Yeah, but I mean when you

You have to understand the perception from a fan base Kip when you get offered the largest contract in franchise history And you turn it down and you like leave the first second you can yeah Well, that's a tough one. First of all, Matthew's is at 3.25, right? 13.25. I'm sorry, 13.25. So it was in that neighborhood, and I think they would have passed Matthew's if they thought he'd legitimately consider it.

So I believe that it was out there for him here in Toronto to go there, but he needed a change. And you did you guys read his statement today? I did. Yeah. Yeah. What did you think of it? Well, I saw two things.

I saw someone say if he had spoken like that once over his time here, he'd have been perceived a lot better. And then I saw someone else run it through a chat BT thing, which said 100% likelihood written by chat GPT. So people were, there was some skepticism. It was a nice note, Kip. The sentiment was good. I tried my best, but it wasn't good enough. He said the right things.

Why did he never say that after a playoff series, Kip? Yeah, it was well done on his part. Nobody did. I know. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe Tanev did Yeah, those are all legitimate questions. Yeah for sure, but it just seemed like the whole The whole era wasn't built that way well

I just I mean I think you've alluded to this kipper and you as well Borny that it's just was not the right mix of guys and The lack of accountability these guys kind of fed off each other But I just I think the way that Marner maybe just the way he spoke to the media and just some of the stuff He said and the way he said it just rubbed people the wrong way straight up, and I don't know if it's fair I don't know if that's if that's true. He just he just he did a time struggle articulating the way he felt and no bigger example of that then We're we're treated like gods here and how people could take it right away and which he was 100% right about it Yeah, which which people took the wrong way when in fact, that's not what he was insinuating people took the wrong way when in fact that's not what he was insinuating. But I have trouble with like how it felt like it was viewed as like succession and these

guys were like vying for the top spot and it was acrimonious between the Marner camp to the Matthews camp about you know almost just race to be the guy and I will say seeing new Tavares deal and eyes deal you like Marner gets a start. Like it feels nice that they can almost turn the page. I don't know if it's good, they're gonna be worse. I think until they show me they had someone top six, I think they're probably worse. It does feel like it was time. So is this the new standard now with guys needing

to come in and prove that you could leave money on the table? Boston was the whole thing. When it's all said and done like Tavares was clearly in a position where he's just gonna take whatever they gave him he's not moving okay nice to me is is a real good sign that he left a little bit, a little bit, not a ton for me Because he was right up there in that 8 8 to 5 and then no more on a six-year deal If you want to go eight years, I could see him asking for nine or ten And even nine or ten would have bothered some people on eight years. Yeah, right So good on him, but moving forward is this the way it's gonna have to be here?

Well, I think it really got crazy with this stuff when the cap was flat and it was all about There's this set pie for five years and we're all cutting pieces up and who gets what and if we you know If we all take a little less pie we can be better around it I think as the cap goes like this and right now, I think something like 25, 26 teams were within spending a couple million dollars of the salary cap the last couple of years. That's not going to be the case. So there will be more money for the best guys to take more money.

I think in the future, I think there'll be less pressure on guys to take less. Now Florida is a different animal because they're jammed up against it. They got a ton of great guys. They're trying to be a dynasty. But I do think, Kip, that there will be less pressure on guys to sacrifice in the years ahead. So there was a lot of talk that if, if Marchand was gonna leave Florida, like,

yeah, there might've been a couple other teams that were knocking on the door with more money. We believe that the Leafs were in around Yeah, there might have been a couple other teams that were knocking on the door with more money. We believe that the Leafs were in around eight to nine million dollars for four years from Marchen. That's, that's the feeling like a lot of people that I've talked to. A lot of money to leave on the table. If they were going to give him nine, he took five.

Well, but he got six years, right? So it is... Which also, by the way, this contract should immediately land them in trouble goes goes to 43 years of age What is the last time a 43 year old forward played in the NHL? Yager limped his way around 43 is there is there another one since 40? How I heard Harry's proving that he can yeah knock on the door older than 40. I had to listen all He'll be turning 41 this year. What do so he's 40 he just

turned 40 okay so he's gonna be under contract at 41 so given more far as 41 to 40 carry 5 million for three years right now I have to say I had to listen to how sketchy of a contract the Chris Tanev was one from every reporter and oh that's a sketchy one let's keep an eye on that and then Marchand. They're like good job Zito What a wizard Zito is. That contract's illegal. Illegal. That's like that's Elia Kovalchuk with the devil style But if if Marchand would have signed it a much bigger shorter term contract in Toronto Would it have been accepted or would have been hold on for a second? Why are we we're in we're glorifying these guys for taking less now and this guy comes in

and scoops it all up. But did he, but is he, I didn't want it, I said it yesterday. But is he exempted because of the status as a Stanley Cup champion and a guy that they needed desperately to hold Austin Matthews hand? I totally think that's a hypothetical, you can't even play out. Yeah. Because it's you know, he if that's what he did,

he'd be he wouldn't be Brad Marsh and it'd be it would be shocking for a guy like him who's cared about winning so much to do that. And yeah, I'd have been like, well, this isn't good. You know, that extra money, those savings is gone on a third liner. I wouldn't love that. So boy, 43 years old. That's a joke joke I put to turn the legal contract every single reporters like Bill Theedle the wizard at it again it's like over Jim Neal yeah he's just like yeah I'll sign them I'll

sign them all I don't care give me years I don't care I'll sign them all God I can't stand it. It drives me crazy. Thank you. Thank you. So as we speak, the networks, TSN and Sportsnet battling it out on free agent frenzy. What are we doing? Oh, God. If you're here with us now, God bless you. We're doing the same thing they're doing, but it's just the three of us.

We get to talk a lot more than their shows. We also get to just throw stuff at the wall like, you know, it's You know, this is not reporting. We're just talking about it here. So it okay. No, I was you go ahead I was just kind of wrapping up the bow Yeah on Marner and I guess we kind of talked about the legacy thing and how it'll be receptive or whatever but like, you know Just how much of this situation, like what's the okay blame pie, blame pie here on Mitch Marner side of things, and on the management in terms of the decisions that they made. Like,

where do you see it here? Because I think there's a lot of blame to go around and letting him walk out the door for Nick Waugh, who's a good player and whatever. But that being the return when like you see trade rumors that it could have been rant in or Shay Theodore or all these different guys. Like, did he want to be here for an extended period? Like, how long was this not tampering, but how long was hit? Did he have a foot out the door? Like, I'm having a tough time with the timelines here.

Yeah, probably all season. But I don't think it's unusual for guys. Nobody wakes up a week before this, or two weeks, and goes, now is my time. And Tavares went through the same thing with the island. And you know how I feel about that is that you know you used to be able to get away with all face lying. He didn't.

He didn't get away with it. Oh he definitely didn't get away with it. No but he did. But he did get away with it up until it was announced. Right? Yeah because people. Oh no. He's no no everybody thought he was going to stay. Everybody thought he was going to stay.

He insinuated that he wanted to stay. And he's not the only one. In the past, a lot of free agents just did whatever they did to buy time. Mitch never did that though. He never did that. He said he wanted to stay 100 times. No, he did not. Not during the season, not during the season.

The only thing they said, Darren Ferris went on record saying, we're gonna play it out, we're gonna go to July 1st. Yeah. So, Tea Leaves, I had always said that, is there a chance he could change his mind? I'll give anybody the benefit of the doubt to change their mind in the last second.

I really thought if there was a chance that they could go to a conference final or Stanley Cup final, and he had great success, that he could find a way to stay. But I also said on record, I told you guys, that if he signed for 13 million times eight in February or March, and they lost like this again, where they were thoroughly embarrassed in five or March and they lost like this again where they were thoroughly embarrassed in five or seven that guy can't leave the house yeah after he just signed 13 eight and then where is he yeah if he doesn't you know if he doesn't take a full no move clause or whatever you know you could

potentially get traded out of here or whatever but it's just it would have been more I guess it ended up being the same thing I I guess, kind of, but I don't know. I just, cause I think the great sliding door moments for me, and I know we're going back here, but I mean, you know, everybody's watching the other show anyway. So, but the, the summer where Dubas left and there was that week after they got put out bitterly in five games against the Florida Panthers. And there was the week there Which was one of the wilder weeks ever when they fight when Dubis comes out does that press conference is like I gotta look out

Let's best for my cut family and Shanahan gets fire Fires them does the press conference Bradshaw living comes in and all within that two-week stretch or three-week stretch That was the last opportunity to move Marner without a full no move clause and for Brad to living to come in here and be like It's a fresh set eyes. I got it that stretch right there for me It was the turning point like I think don't you think Dubis probably would have tried to trade him at that point I do. Yeah, I do a kipper. I mean, I don't I could be talking on my you know what? Yeah, I think they had valued what he brought and

This was a team that was still doubling and tripling down and they could not trade their best two-way forward Yeah, they just couldn't so then so then a lot of it was Shanahan's Like like his dream to keep all four together and have that plan work I just I'm trying to look for answers here. Why he never got traded. I think so. I think it was, I think Brendan was in so deep on the belief of these four guys and needing to fail multiple times.

And we all heard the stories, how many times it took Ovechkin, how many times it took Stevie Y. Stevie Y. And these guys are just going through the process and I'm all in on these guys are just going through the process and I'm all in on these guys Have a matter you don't want to suddenly not have a Mitch I think the fresh set of eyes Yeah, actually hurt them as opposed to helping them. Yes. I think the one thing that

Probably hurt the process as well into Brad tree livings tenure here Was when they had lost, I guess, two years ago, and he was first eligible to be re-signed. And on the last renewals of Austin and Nylander, it was, oh, they're, we have to sign them and we're gonna do everything we can. And they're a big part. And it was just, the message was clear that they weren't going anywhere as far as I'm concerned. And we're gonna do everything we can.

It's a top priority. And then when Mitch first came up for a contract renewal, it was like, I can't remember the exact term, but it was like, can't remember the exact term, but it was like- Everything's on the table? Everything's on the table. And it was not, we need to get this guy signed. It was like, I'm not making any promises at all. And it was probably with the fact that,

Mitch disappointed him and he disappointed a lot of people and maybe we got to find a way to get him out. I don't know why. Maybe he was scared to say Mitch is a big part of it and then have all the whole hockey leaf world go, are you nuts? Break them up and we did it too. I did it.

That year I said it's over for the core four. Trade Mitch. Remember. But this exact thing is like what my complaint I said it's over for the core for trade Mitch remember this this Exact thing is like what my complaint about the Marner era has been this like perceived this perception that like oh they're not talking as nice about me as those guys or You know, Jonas had the quote from Paul to the Paul Marner in his article today about how you know No one talks about Mitch for captain and it makes our family really upset or there's a schedule B bonuses that weren't played. But but Matthew's got his dislike, holy tiny resentment thing that really see us. So what I think is for Mitch Marner, this is awesome. This is the

best thing for him, because he's an ecosystem here. Kip, so go ahead. No, no, he's an ecosystem., Kip. So go ahead, are you gonna say something? No, no, yeah. He's an ecosystem. We had his skating coach on the first year that we were here. We all know the people that are around him and in his ear a lot. I think it's gonna be great for him. Good contract, good team.

Take your wife, take your baby. Start a life where hopefully it's a little quieter and he can have that joy. I think Mitch is gonna have big years in the next few years. I'm not just saying that, I really do. And this market ultimately won't care because they'll be focused on the Leafs as they should be. So that's great for Mitch, it's great for Vegas

that he goes on and lives happily ever after. Everyone I just mentioned. But where does that leave the Leafs now? Well, they need to figure out how to spend this money, you know, and that's What money? I'm not sure there's how much money is out there and where is it going? Well, you haven't had Mattias Michelli making 3.4 and Nick Waugh making three, you know Like guys that are behind the core for who make any money That hasn't been a thing that they've been able to do so but I mean just to use what happened today as an

example boys you know you think about I mean Brock Besser goes back to the Canucks after like publicly his general manager who signed the contract being like yeah we couldn't get anything for him at the deadline and it's like yeah we like basically drove him out drove him out of town and they end up resigning him. It's like, man, lease management never said anything close to that bad about Mitch Marner. And it's like this slighted feeling. It's like if Brock Besser can resign in Vancouver after what they said about it, Mitch could

resign here. Yeah, I don't blame him for not wanting to, by the way. But, it's not even it's not apples to apples. What's a comparable situation? No, it's not because Brock Brock didn't feel like it was unsafe to leave his house. Mitch did guys. Okay, garbage thrown over his house, golf balls thrown, needing police some nights after the playoffs, death threats, come on. It's like, no good, no good, he had to leave. He just had to leave.

And it's not just about, I guess, I don't know. As Brian. I wish he had said that a year earlier. Right? Yeah. If he had to leave. So. Yeah, I mean, the fans weren't mean to him the summer before? Good chance they were Good chance. Yeah, yeah it

was uncomfortable for him and It's just it he just had enough. Just not enough. He just needs a fresh change But and it's best for everyone. Like I said, I think it's good. Yeah. Okay, so Leafs now. Yes. How do they get where there there is no? Leafs now. Yes. How do they get there? Where there is no, there's no free agent to sign right now

for seven or $8 million to replace him now. So where are the leafs? Like, Michelli, okay. I hear good things about his playmaking. Some people are calling him Dollarama Marner. He's, you know, the thought is he's competitive. I don't know where it stood with With Utah like I'm like what happened there what happened there? they say they had a lot of other guys that were similar and he was just one of the

Many small guys that they had that found himself on the outside looking in but is it wasn't scratched for three games or 13 games he was scratched for like 30 games. Yeah Jordan Schmalz a former teammate had a whole tweet about him and basically said it was like fell in favor the coaching staff lost his confidence you know suffered a mild injury that was kind of nagging like you know one of those years where everything just goes to hell in a handbasket I hope he's the guy he's been in the past the one thing I do worry about is will he get that opportunity. Is the year he had 60 points in the league or in another year at 50? You know, presumably he's playing first line power play on a terrible team.

Right. So is he going to get those looks here? Maybe he will. Good stats, bad team guy. Could be. But also there's opportunity here where they haven't had left wingers like Bobby McMahon Didn't grab a top six spot for me in the last year, I would be telling you that if you're heading into September or early October and your plan is Mattias Michelli top six. I'm terrified. Yeah, what the outcome of the Toronto Maple Leaf season? Okay, for sure. Um I'm looking at, Mason Marchment was out there. They make roughly the same amount of money. Why wouldn't- Yeah, 1.2 different.

Why wouldn't you go get Marchment? Yeah. Yeah, that would've been way better. Why? Were they trying to? Please tell me they were. I hope so. Yeah, I don't to? Please tell me they were so yeah, please tell me that When you when you thought of his availability you pictured him playing against the Florida Panthers Yeah, you know I think

You have to at some point you have to have talent on your team I said on the show I've been worried about they're like They're getting a lot of bottom six guys and not a whole lot of talent in with Mitch out the door At least he's someone who can make a player too. But I get your point that it's like I still want I don't Be making they need a hurdle, right? you know, they need someone like that and I'm gladly I Gladly give him a chance to prove his playmaking ability

because he's got shooters in Tavares, Nylander, and Matthews. And Mitch is the one that fed them, all of them, at some point, either the power play or on a five on five or a six on five when they needed a goal, okay? That guy's gone now, so Who's picking up those pieces and what is that power play gonna look like without Mitch Marner? get

Ready for Morgan Riley talk. I do think that's maybe the most interesting question here is are they gonna address that like are they going? To say hey, we need another guy at the top of the power play? The Ryley experiment, you just can't do it again anymore. You can't do it anymore. We've seen them run that. Maybe Oliver Ekman Larson again, to try that again. Doesn't sound like he's going anywhere soon. Ryley's not.

No. But I just don't think he can run your top unit. I would bet that they've had conversations with him and his representation on possibly moving but the sense that I get is like No shot. I wouldn't say no shot. I'd say not right now. Yeah If they also just had a kid they also recently married like it's yeah, you know tough time to be like, yeah Yeah, wherever you want just fire me around. Yeah Recently married like it's yeah, you know tough time to be like yeah, yeah, wherever you want. Just fire me around. Yeah

So he he almost got to put him back on right now on the power play is the the top guy It was Marner. He's gone. Who's left. No, no, no, it's it's it is him or Oliver Eppelmars. Yeah Those that's your option if you want to do that. But I'm not sure they do want to do that. We should be able to take a break and reset. All right. All right. We're back two hours today. Still plenty of meat on the bone on our leaf hour edition of the real kipper and born show.

Don't go away. Diving deep into leaps, Raptors, Jays and NFL. The JD Bunkett podcast. way. Our edition July 1st NHL signing season. I don't know. I didn't look at my computer during the break. I was just watching you eat a chocolate. Anything happening? I'm just looking up Michael Pizzetta's hockeyfights.com page. So can I tell you why? Yeah, I like that. He likes to fight. Ryan Reeves got here at the end of his fighting career. He didn't want to fight. He didn't want to fight anymore. He was done. So he's still under contract. Yeah, he is so We assume that they're just gonna bury him in the Marlies all season long Cuz that it comes in and I wonder if there's a team that wants him Can you play to play anywhere? Can he play every day?

Is that a yeah, is that a is that a good play every day? Every day. Yeah, but he couldn't in Montreal fourth line I don't know I think it's a preference thing if he had defense that you want to do but the Leafs have the nicest guys on the earth on their team and this is my thing with Pizzetta. It's just like You've played against guy. You've been that guy. Yeah, we're just like god they have that one idiot Yeah, stop making eye contact with him. Not sorry, I didn't mean to call you an idiot.

I didn't mean to call you an idiot. I didn't mean to call you an idiot. I didn't mean to call you an idiot. I mean, you know, that one guy who's like. No, no, I wish I had more of an idiot reputation. Maybe I would've even had more room. Right, but that's what I mean. Like, there's like, God, don't look at him

because he's gonna say something. He's gonna punch you in the mouth. His eyes are gonna cross. His mouth is gonna foam. It's gonna be. Like, what'd he fight? Nine times last last year the year before it was nine times like he's I He's not a perfect player. He doesn't win every fight I'm just saying I've been dying for the leaf test someone who wants does that mean no room for a tan of does it mean?

that Tanner Janelle was a thought out there that type of player is no longer needed. He's on the brink. No, I know that I know that but that type of player you seeking out another type of player like that or is it just enough now that you know and let's let's give some love to Steve Lawrence as well who signed a three year deal. Yes, at 1.35 if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, the exact Ryan Rees contract. I think if you want to lump in Tavares and Nye's possibly leaving a little money on the

table, this guy did too. Lorenz did you think? I said yesterday he'd be 4.5 or something. Why wouldn't you, if you didn't, why wouldn't you cross over the threshold of July 1st just to see what's out there? And there were multiple teams interested in him. He did enough last year to say

that he's worthy of a three-year deal, but I think he could have pushed 1.5, 1.75, but he didn't because he wanted to be a maple leaf Yeah, and and I'd love a lot of what he could be I actually was frustrated last year that he didn't get any opportunity up the lineup, right? There was no day it did once did they once where played with that? He's a martyr one game for what like it over a game or like yeah, I want period Yeah, you know like I just I thought he's a guy who could probably handle a little

Bit more I like his ability and you know big grade four checker. You know get pucks for guys. So yeah, is that a buried if you have to but lot in and Camp no no camps gone young rock gone Gone. Well, they're gonna try to get rid of them. This is the office So That's not your fourth line, isn't it? Yeah, I think the the fourth line They got a lot of guys who look good as a chance to be fun. So the one is perplexing to me is

My guy Ponce's Homburg to be fun. So the one is perplexing to me is my guy Pontus Holmberg. Oh yeah. Restricted free agent. How did they not qualify him? To me this is so weird. They didn't play Campbell playoffs for this guy. He's 6'3", 6'2", or 6'3". I don't know, he's 220 pounds. He's strong as a pole. 220 pounds. He gets in people's way and you can't qualify this guy? He played 60 games. He's got 160. You've developed him.

You've brought him up. You've made room for him. He's... He played 70 games last year. Check to see if another team's already signed him. I would grab this guy. He's all right, he's all right. I think... No, no, no, it's not that...

He's okay. But he's okay enough, Sammy, where he has value. Don't give them away for free. If they, right now you saw Holmberg go one by one for the Leafs, you'd be like, yeah, that checks out. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's a bit. No, but it's not. He's got better numbers than 1-1.

Oh, you think so? Oh yeah, yeah. I think, I wouldn't be surprised to see a team offer him today or tomorrow or I don't know July and July like 175 really he's got 160 games under his belt. He's played he's he's got some value. Yeah If you listen to Matthews if you listen to Matthews and Marner they loved him Well, they think he's more talented than the opportunity. He is the single worst player around the net. If you ask me, if you ask me, he's playing with a broom ball. Yeah.

If you ask me like, you know, who's not going to get qualified, you know, he, he'd be at the bottom of my list. Yeah. Robertson is going to get qualified. Yeah. The only confusing part for me is the matchup of What the management thinks of him versus what the coach thought of him? Is this like take the toy away because the coach the coach had him But the coach six multiple different times on the second line Yeah the coaching and and Brad tree living are are the two hockey guys making a lot of key decisions right now, but that's it

There seems to be a disconnect on Holmberg the way they used him versus the one thing I wonder is if you don't qualify him. Yeah. Maybe I don't know what his QO would be for. Can they offer him less? Are they trying to do something longer? Is there some other reason? No qualifying offer. You're saying we don't want him?

No qualifying offer takes him to unrestricted free agency right away. And last year he just earned 800 last year so his qualifying would be at 800 right? So and they just said yeah we don't want to do that we don't want them. Which is crazy. I think it's to qualify him would put him in a position also to go to salaryary Arb. That's the trick. Oh, and they're worried that maybe it's Salary Arb? Yes, that they'd get stuck with a million, seven,

two million. Like Nick Robertson, look at his numbers. He could get qualified or he can go to Salary Arb now and possibly look at one175 to $2 million. You know why you're right about Holmberg in particular is when you make your case for a guy you say, here's how much they use my client. They used them for 13 minutes per game this season, which is more than blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. In playoffs, here's where they played him. Here's the minutes he got. This is not a...

This is the amount of minutes he's played with Auston Matthews. Yeah, they obviously value this guy. So why not qualify him and then trade him? Why not just, there's a window where you can go over the cap in the summer and then flip him for, you're telling me you can't get a third or fourth round pick for this guy?

I mean, I don't know, don't think so. I know I mean I think he's There was multiple times where I was like, oh my god top six again I think he's playing with the broom ball stick like he doesn't really make plays scored They've got no assets played 19 games the least in the playoffs never scored a goal like they got no assets They got no draft picks, right? You just gave up a third that could turn into a second for a guy that you're Hoping can can look like a guy that can score you 50 points. Yeah, and it still might be a great bet but

Anyways, the cupboards are empty here Yeah, you mentioned Robertson. Is that an asset for them? Are they gonna trade him away for a pick? But anyways, the cupboards are empty here. Yeah. You mentioned Robertson. Is that an asset for them? Are they gonna trade him away for a pick? Well, first of all, can you picture a top nine with the Toronto Maple Leafs with Robertson and Macchelli in the same lineup?

No. I can, I don't like it. Oh yeah. Then the answer is you can't. Yeah, okay, you're right. Okay, you can't. So there's a guy that can't. Yeah, okay, you're right. Okay, you can't. So there's a guy that has value.

Yeah. He's how many times did you say he's going to be a 2025, 2025 goal score? By the way, he ended up with 15 goals in 69 games. I was wrong. He didn't get there. I still think it happens. I think there's 15. What is that? A 19 goal pace?

I think there's 15 teams out there that he can score 20 goals next year. I mean, like I said, if he played 82 games this year, his pace is about 18, 19 goals. Give him a full chance next year. I know he falls down a lot and he gets bumped around a little bit. He got way better at getting pucks back this year. I but tell me another guy in the Leafs last year that had a Better release than him not named Austin Matthews. Yeah, there isn't one there isn't one and it's it's bad Does he like to release it? He loved Smokes that's all he wants to do full scores do I mean like he could mix it a pass it would actually it's like a pitcher

It's like that's great about your fastball Yeah, what have you threw one off speed pitch? Keep on their heels a bit Nicholas was speaking to the media as we speak. He's doing a little zoom chat Apparently was a leaf fan For the first 11 12 years of his life He said mm-hmm, and then he was a huge fan of Matt Sundin that's undine leaves for Vancouver And then he switches to the Habs so I feel like that why are you not just cheering for the Habs from the start well now it's like a

guy came for the Florida Panthers in Toronto like why are you just here for the Leafs like they're the local team you know it's it gives me a little bit you know maybe a bad trade you're weird no it's not weird. There's nothing more attention seeking to me than being from a city and being like, I'm an avalanche fan, I'm a Panthers fan. It's like, oh yeah, so you and all your buddies can root. The whole point is. This could not have less to do with Nick Wadahockey player.

Sure, but it tells me a little bit about him. Okay, all right. Anyways. Sounds like things, I don't know, I was gonna take it away from the Leafs, but we're still wrapping up our Leafs Hour here. Yeah. I don't even know if this is Leafs Hour, but it is now.

One more for me is that if you were gonna try to still have a different look beyond Mitch Marner not being in training camp Where would you go like what would you do? What would you be trying to do? How do you get hurdle or any other legit they have count number two you give up Cowan That crazy talk matter my mind Yeah, what do you think Cowan's gonna be is he playing the league next year? Yeah, he is You think he's gonna be on the Leafs next year. I do. Yeah, that's encouraging. I do. Okay, I'd be surprised. Yeah, I mean Yeah, I do and I think he's gonna have to I think he's gonna have to struggle for

Ten I think he's gonna have to struggle for 10, 15, 20 games to reassess it. But I think as long as he comes in with a good attitude and really legitimately thinks he can earn a spot, I think he's gonna be in the mix. That's interesting. For me, looking at a talent deficit that I talked about with his team, he obviously is a talented guy, I know he's a worker. It's tough when you're that size to be strong enough to win pucks and to get where you need to get. He showed signs of being okay last year

and he's that much stronger. Yeah, but there's signs where he you can see what he possesses Listen there's gonna be There's gonna be hiccups along the way like any other rookie, but I do believe that they've they've got a roster spot form of one of 14 interesting 39 points and 17 Foster Spot Forum of one of 14. Interesting. Unbelievable playoff run. Yes. 39 points in 17 minutes.

Flipping cow and for hurdle right now or a package for that guy. Man, you really run the risk of bearing this organization for the next 10 years. Yep. No, it's a good point, Kip. And, you know, maybe you have to look at some other way to make that happen and maybe. Ben Danford? Well, you know, anything else that catches your eye out there Vegas, unfortunately, they do like the big fish, you know, in Vegas.

Yeah, but Vegas is in a position to be like, we'll trade our one of our better centers for a prospect. Yeah, that's not really how they move. So it would be another probably a team that's worse that's looking to get a good young player. William Carlson you've mentioned in the past, is he good enough? Not for Cowan.

Oh no, not for Cowan, but just better for somebody. You know, if you have to say, okay, we can't get, we don't wanna give you Cowan, so can we go down to Carlson? You just, you need someone It's interesting there. They are kind of strong at center But they don't have a good enough to see for me because Matthew is obviously great one C But then Tavara's wah and lot are all nice centermen, but they're all three C's

Yeah, or at least Does lightning hit Nick Watt, turns into a 25 goal scorer and a 55 point guy? If you play him between Tavarez and Nylander, can you do that? Or between Nylander and McChely or something like that maybe? Good defensive conscience for those boys. Yeah, so it's not impossible

Very comfortable with Joseph wall and stole ours again next year. I am yeah you know But we got tomorrow to talk about that. Whoa on our leaf hour. Whoa addition Elvis Mersley kids, I'm kidding. I believe they call that a tease All right, we got another hour to go here as we continue Free Agent Frenzy July 1st on this wonderful Canada Day. Yeah, happy Canada Day guys. An hour later you wish me a happy Canada Day. What is wrong with you?

Big Canada Day for Canada in the wake of all the US hullabaloo. We go into our second hour on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Do not go away. Elliot Friedman will join us next.