Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Mr. Nice Guys

Episode Date: November 3, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open the show by reacting to the Toronto Maple Leafs' 3-2 shootout loss to the Boston Bruins. Kyper expands on why he thinks the Maple Leafs not sticking up for Timothy Liljegren after Brad Marchand's injury-inducing trip is indicative of a larger issue for the club. Next, they’re joined by Doug MacLean (30:07) for Off The Rails Friday! Mac gives his take on the Marchand-Liljegren incident, explains why the Leafs are the 'nicest team' he's ever watched and shares his concerns for the team’s left side on offence.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome into the real kipper and born show we are on sportsnet 590 sportsnet 360 and sportsnet plus from four to six eastern as always make sure you download us whenever you get the chance and hey it's off the rails friday thank goodness so send us your text messages your comments we're gonna get them into the show at 590 590 i'd like to say that off the rails starts now going off the rails on a crazy train yes yes what the hell did ai give us our own version just when you think derrick despicable me okay mega mind apparently that's just when you think derrick's gone for coffee he does that above and beyond so every so often giver did you tell him to do that i did not you did i swear i did not so you he came up to you and said, I got something for you?

No. So you just did not know that was going to happen? Just heard it like you for the first time. Wow. Wow. He's really. Reduction value on this show is out of control. I think he wants a raise.

Yeah. Good luck. So before I was greatly interrupted by Derekrick yeah i was gonna say off the rails friday starts now but it really started with about 41 seconds to go after the first period yeah last night between the toronto maple leafs and the boston bruins and we got a chance to have our first regular season uh edition of Me and You. Yeah, pal. And it was fun.

It was. Guys, this is the stupidest thing ever. But you guys are both super professional guys who have done it a million times. You've been on Hockey Night in Canada. You've been doing this forever. And I was so nervous for you guys. I was sitting there waiting. I was like 6.59.

I was like, oh, guys, let's go have a dinner ready. I was ready to rock. I was like, there they go. There they go. It's because you've seen us screw up so many times here. You know how unprepared we can be. I will say there's something about it that reminds me of being a hockey player. We're like, all right, you know, 7 o'clock.

It's go time. It's a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. It was awesome. And no matter if you do this for the very first time or 20 plus years for me, there's always the feeling of watching a game and thinking, okay, do we have enough to talk about? Is there anything really interesting going on in this game?

And to be clear, we almost, we didn't. So here we are, you know, closing out the first period and we're like, oh my God, do we talk to Samson? I'm like, nothing's really going on. I was going to show some turnovers, I think. And then in one moment, late, late in the first period, once again, the show got written on its own because of the Brad Marchand and Timothy Lilligren incident. And yes, the Leafs rallied from a 2-0 deficit and eventually fell 3-2 in overtime in the shootout.

But no one was really talking about that today. And then we had our first period intermission. And Sammy, I don't know if you went for a donut or not. No, I did. I watched. I kind of got a little bit, you know, emotional in my wheelhouse of defending your teammates or standing up for your teammates or showing more emotion. I kind of let that show in the first intermission.

And it opened a floodgate of emotion from leaf nation well they've seen this before right they've seen this thing game 10 in the season early in the year where you expect some reaction and don't get one and they've seen how that has played out in the long term yeah i don't know when the matthews giordano came in like a superman play against philly happened last season that was early last year it felt like he was early in the season yeah but this felt like that moment and i think kip that it could be some long deep scars from fans going at what point does the team want to protect one another and prioritize that over winning the game or taking a penalty or whatever?

I think it was particularly galling in this sort of version of Leafs hockey where all I was told about the whole offseason is that like, new attitude. Like, this is a snot. It's a different thing. It's a different thing. And, you know, they sign Ryan Reeves

to however much they paid him to be a guy that deters this kind of thing you have Bertuzzi you have you know I guess Domi and just the exact same thing before we get into that that type of detail

and we will in the next hour, and just make sure everybody knows it's Friday off the rails, which means Doug McClain will join us in about 30 minutes. I can't wait to get his take on all of this. But before we get into more detail on that, let's just go back and tell me what you saw either live or after a few replays because there's a split amongst a lot of people out there and we know as of now that the league's not going to do anything about that.

Right. Did you get a sense there was a 50-50 split, that it's suspendable or not suspendable? Let's go to you first, JB, on the actual incident. Well, you know, our colleague Friedman, you know, is saying that they don't typically suspend for this type of thing. But to me, that's irrelevant. You know, to me, it's should this sort of thing be suspendable?

All the time, we talk about how unsafe it is to hit someone two, three feet from the boards, right? You don't want to make contact by the numbers. Recently, a car went into the boards hard, and there was debate about should you be able to touch a guy there. Guy screaming into the boards that close away, and a can opener takes his feet out. He has no ability to protect himself in that instance.

And to me, whether there's intention or not, you have to control your stick. Same as a high stick thing or, you know, slashing or whatever. If it's accidental, it's still a penalty. You can't clumsily, you know, have your stick and someone skates. Lilligren's in a vulnerable spot, whether he initiates contact or whatever. If it's accidental, it's still a penalty. You can't clumsily have your stick and someone skates. Lilligren's in a vulnerable spot whether he initiates contact or not. Super dangerous. To me, if you

don't want to suspend him, maybe it's a five, but given Brad Marchand has eight suspensions, I think we've lost, given him the benefit of the doubt on a whoopsie. To me, I think that should have been a game. Yeah, I don't think so think so yeah i know you don't and i've watched it a bunch because in i did the leafs talk after with alish and we talked about it

and saw it a lot of times and i think it's a penalty i think it's a trip i think it's in a bad area no and i think and i think there was a certain referee that a lot of leaf fans love a whole lot staring right at the play that didn't happen to call it and Sheldon's obviously pissed off we have a clip of him talking about it but I just thought like I thought Lilligren kind of initiated the contact he's kind of off balance Marchand goes to the puck I do think it was a hockey play and it is hard to give Marchand the benefit of the doubt clearly because I mean if there's one guy you're not going to give it to in the league it's probably him but I do think that it was a hockey play it's a penalty but I think a suspension may be a bridge too far fellas yeah he was playing the puck I also

have a great investment for you this Nigerian prince is interested in you should this one's good though this one's good this one I just disagree that it's a suspension. I don't think... Like, this is a slippery slope, boys. We start suspending guys for chipping other guys into the boards. You're going to have... You start suspending guys for breaking ankles?

Well, yeah. I mean, he's going to be out. Like, it's definitely something broken. He's injured. He is in Marchand's history. I get your point, Sammy. I know it's not... I don't think it's, like, egregious,

but I mean, it's... This happens a lot with guys getting tripped in that spot. I just think it's a lot of it. If that's Zaka that does it, are we having the same conversation? No. So I don't know. I guess that's the whole point.

But to me, it wasn't as bad as a lot of people thought. For me, the last 20 years of is it a suspension, is it not, this is at least with the Leafs in this situation, it's almost irrelevant, even if he had a game or two. It doesn't change. It doesn't make you feel better? It doesn't do anything. Yeah.

And I didn't like it. Yeah. And I am with you that Marchand doesn't get the benefit of the doubt for me. But this is the best take of all, that it is pretty irrelevant. Right? It is. It is. At the end of the day. It's not like it happens best take of all, that it is pretty irrelevant. Right? It is. It is. At the end of the day.

It's not like it happens a lot in the league and you need to curb it. There's some things that we could actually predict. When Rasmus Andersen gets four games, and then we kind of compare it to McAvoy, we know he's going to get four games. But how many incidences in the last 20 years you've watched, you're like, oh, my God, that should be a suspension. And it's like, no.

And then it's the opposite. That shouldn't be a suspension, and the guy gets one. It's just so hard these days. And I've been in the game for a very long time, and I'm tired of trying to predict whether or not. Spin the wheel. Spin the wheel. You have no idea.

I think it's more predictable than that. But anyway, I get your point, Kim. My point is, for the Leafs, in this picture, it is irrelevant. If Brad Marchand doesn't play against whoever they play next, whatever, doesn't help the Leafs. At the end of the day, this is not a normal court of law. Like, if I'm a Leaf player, you are guilty until proven innocent correct not the other way around i don't even care if i think i saw it or i didn't all i know is i think timothy

lilligren knows how to skate and he doesn't end up like he ends up without somehow some way brad marshand being involved. And that's enough for me to want to go after you. I'm not saying this did anything or whatever, but I am reminded of Nick Foligno fighting Corey Perry after Perry accidentally knee Tavares in the head. Didn't know if he did it or not. Wasn't sure in your intent, but just in case,

we're going to have to, you know, I'm going to try to punch your face. Not a lot we remember from nick felino unfortunately in in that trade he was hurt whatever the case is that is what we remember yeah and people are like should he have done it it's like do you remember his response i don't it was like yeah i don't know i i see my captain hurt i i'm gonna go do something about it right It was that simple for him. And it's still that simple for a lot of people in the league today, including Tampa Bay.

And I referenced it on last night's show, but I couldn't exactly remember. But it was around this time last year where Robert Bertuzzo goes down the ice, clips Vasilevsky. Barely. And five Tampa Bay guys all dropped their gloves at the same time. They couldn't wait. There was 10 gloves on the ice in four seconds. They were fighting each other to get to him.

Guilty. Right? Verdict is in. You know what they are like? They're like that husband who would rather beg for forgiveness with their wife golfing right exactly and then just a sorry about that i this is what i thought and and i'm sorry if i was wrong that's what the least should have done if if if there was a chance marchand wasn't then then beg for forgiveness from the league after that.

But to have zero response is unacceptable. The viral clip is of Marchand talking to the whole Leafs bench, Reeves doing his thing. Now, people are on Reeves for not going to do whatever. I don't think he was on the ice with them again. Maybe it was for 10 seconds or something. Later in the game, he was, and I noticed it because a thought crossed my mind.

But it was also a tie game. It's a tie game in the third period. I don't care. No, you gotta care. No, I don't care. I don't care about the two points at that point. I don't. Big picture here. I've gone through a league.

I've got 82 of these all season long. Am i really in threat of missing the playoffs with with my guys who can score at any time is there not though to take a number like no no no to take a number four years ago five years that's fine they've been taking numbers for a very long time well i don't even know if they have been but like i still think that this tax is getting paid i still think that ryan reeves or hasn't gotten paid for years no it is outstanding okay it's definitely the bill is way overdue and this the cra is calling this i would say so jb this was going to be different because you went

out and got reeves you went out and got max and you you went out and got Bertuzzi. That, to me, is a bigger story. This was not supposed to be. This was supposed to be what happens when you don't handpick those guys. Yeah. And it looks exactly the same as it has in the last few years, and that's a big problem right now. And it's the problem that suggests that you guys would have been better off if you looked more like a team and lost in regulation

than if you would have got a point or two in overtime or a shootout. It's like, I don't care at that point. Look like a team. Whoever joins this Leafs group takes on this group's DNA. Like, it's not like anyone comes in and changes the complexion of the team. The team changes the people who join it. So let me ask you something, okay? Is Keefe telling them not to do this stuff?

Well, that's what I was going to get to. I see videos. If you sit there and you tell me that Reeves, I don't know if he was on the ice. Why isn't he on the ice? Why don't you line him up with Matthews and Marner the next shift or two with with Marshan on the ice? And listen, how do you think that plays out? OK, let me tell you how it plays out, how it would have played out. Reeves, go get him. Go get it.

It'll look like I don't care. John Scott and Phil Kessel is how that's going to look. I don't care john scott and phil kessel is how that's gonna look i don't care chase him around and swing yeah yeah or talk to him or or how about this just chase him spend the whole shift just just john adam okay even if you're honest even if he got suspended a game or two it'll be the the best two-game suspension you'll ever have. Three-game suspension. It's Reeves. Okay?

Take a two-game suspension on this guy. It'll be worth it. Trust me. It'll be better than what Leaf fans are dealing with now. He would have been more of a hero for doing it than the next five or seven minutes looking like nothing happened at all yeah you're right you are no you're 100 right i mean i i don't want to advocate for like i don't i'm trying to imagine in my mind what a two game is he punching him in the face

i get that you're doing that but you also can't send a person out to i think at some point it you know it falls on the coach what's he like are we talking about a slash to the neck what are we talking about like you know what i mean like i don't know you're you're the guy that has to decide that i guess he's got to jump him and look like john's not trying to fight if no one else if no one else is doing it there are games and i know it's changed but it still hasn't changed that much because tampa bay because tampa showed us that well and kip last night truba chasing around ajo because he hurts fox so so they've proven that the game hasn't changed that much but if i'm ryan reeves and i and the mentality should be there that i cannot finish this game on the bench.

No, no, no. I can't finish the game being a part of it. Okay? I don't know what it's going to look like. But there are some nights that I played, like fill in the blank. Two minutes for whatever. Five minutes for fighting. A ten-minute misconduct and a game misconduct i knew i wasn't finishing

the game yeah and i think that's an example where ryan reeves should have said at some point i cannot finish this game he needed to he needed to do something for the sake of Lilligren. Okay. You'll watch the guy get carted off again on your team. And it's not the way it's supposed to be on his watch. So you're better off taking a two-game suspension than just doing nothing. You know, I think the theme for us this season has been zooming out. And not saying, in this moment moment what would have been the best thing for the game or whatever, but saying it's so about the playoffs and winning there and becoming a team that there are points

where it's okay if you don't finish the year with 115 or 111 points. We've had John Cooper on this show say they just want to get in. So I'm okay with the idea that there are greater purposes sometimes for your team maybe that could have been a galvanizing moment i don't like the idea of a guy who is a true enforcer chasing around a guy who got heart trophy votes a couple years ago however you have other players too he's a different animal though he is a different animal he's not he's not an errand a different animal. He's not Panarin. I get it. But he's

allowed to be chased around. But can Bertuzzi not laugh on the bench? Can he not look at his old teammate and have a chuckle? I don't know. We don't know what he's saying and maybe he's saying you're a scumbag and having a laugh. Yeah, listen. Again, when you watch your own teammate

getting carried off the ice, there's nothing that you could find amusing. Nothing. For a smile and a giggle. And it's not the end of the world. People react in different ways. Sometimes it's a nervousness. Sometimes it's when you're uncomfortable.

You could have a laugh. It's not that big of a deal for me, except that it just shouldn't have happened. But past Reeves, again, the whole bench, no reaction, no emotion, nothing. You'd like to see five players. I'm not asking Tavares to be anything that he isn't or to completely come out of his mindset of what he is

and what he's about. But, Demi, you have that C on your jersey, and you have to look at Marchand, and you have to say something. I don't know what it is, but you can't, as a captain, sit on the bench and just look

like nothing happened at all. I wish I could disagree with you, but it's just, I hated it. There's only one guy with the C on his jersey. Yeah. And whether it's like, you know, you're a's like, you know, you're a dirty SO,

you know what, whatever it is, it just needs to be something other than not acknowledging it at all. Yeah. And there have been so many learning lessons

throughout the years, right? Where it's supposed to be like, next time they'll do it. But it is not their natural inclination. They are not wired that way. And I've said this for a while, is that I don't know how much they like each other, respect each other, care for each other.

I think it's a, I think at the end of the day, you can. Speculation, Your Honor. You can sit, you can, you know, you can hang out on a Muskoka dock. You can come to training camp. You can paintball. You can do all of that. But if you don't look like you care about each other on the ice, it's all irrelevant.

This has been the point i've been making to you for two days about how there is a leafs team and then there's the players who get to play with the leafs team and it's you know the core four guys maybe morgan and then there's these other guys who don't ever feel like a part of it and it doesn't feel like an 18 t 18 skater team most nights it feels like the leaf guys who are really good and the other guys who are here temporarily. You know, and it's tough when you feel like you're there temporarily to say, I'm going to put my broken

my nose on the line. So we got about 14 guys that do the warm-up band till the Beatles come on stage? 13. Riley's into the group. But yeah, by and large, I'm not even being insincere. I do feelilly's into the group. Okay. But yeah, by and large, I'm not even being insincere. I do feel like it's the group.

So that is, you're telling me that's the least feeling you could have as a hockey club? That there are two separate levels of the club. Yes. I dare anyone who follows this team closely to say they don't share that feeling. I can't argue that. And maybe we do that in the media because we only talk about the big money guys who score all the goals. But based on what we witnessed again last night, how can you argue what you just said?

Those guys, too, have produced. They have 22 goals, the core four, and the rest of the team has six. But that recipe has been proven over and over and over and over and over. Am I up to seven? I don't think you were even. That it doesn't work. That these guys will be either tired, exhausted, or shut down. And then where is the rest of the lineup?

Yeah. And so fostering that becomes the goal for the coach and the team between now and April. That is the sole purpose. You get enough points to get in the playoffs, but find a way to generate cohesiveness from the group and some success from some bottom six guys. So this was supposed to change with the signings, and this was supposed to change with Brad Treeliving.

Like if this was a Kyle Dubas team that we're talking about today, we can say that they may be a reflection of what Kyle wants to do here, and that is not beat you up in the alley, but beat you up on the scoreboard. Yeah. But Brad's different. He handpicked these guys to bring that snot, right? Yeah.

And no snot last night. But where is it? The thing is, Reeves isn't playing good enough to play for them, and that makes him irrelevant. That's Brad Tree Living's question to his team today. That has to happen. And this is now beyond

Sheldon going in now. This is Brad Tree Living going into that room last night and saying, what would you say you do here? Wow, was that a good drop? Okay, what would you say you do here? Wow, was that a good drop? Okay, I couldn't have summed it up better myself. That's Brad's job now is to go in there

and get a bit of an explanation on why was there zero response. But what an insane focus then for this team. If you're like, okay, we're looking for a chance to fight for each other. You know, like that's an insane focus for a hockey team who's very talented and obviously points are at a premium. You do have to get into playoffs. I understand you can tell them that, but like how has that not become a preset for them?

You know, how are we maybe it's to your point that uh you know you got all these what do you call them silos where it's like i'm i'm the scorer yeah uh and you're the checker that's your job right and it has nothing to do with me instead of we're all hockey players playing the hockey here. Yeah, there should have been some guys a little bit more frustrated with that. Do you want to hear what Sheldon had to say about the referees in that play? Do you want to hear him on Wes McCauley? Absolutely.

Not catching a clip two, please. I got nothing. He didn't see the stick going between his legs. He can't help but make him go feet first into the boards in the most dangerous area of the ice. So he didn't see it. Yeah, that's just... But come on.

We call players all the time. We rarely talk about referees in the show, if ever, quite honestly. I feel like that's a pretty good situation. I don't know how he missed a stick between a guy's leg. But he's looking right at it. A can opener. I watched the video a hundred times, and one of the things I look at a bunch is Wes McCauley

legitimately staring at his feet where the stick goes. It's like, how do you not call that? I get maybe you're trying to let the boys play or whatever, like you're having less penalties. There weren't that many penalties called in the game period last night. But that's just, it's just malpractice how about you got to be better how about lilligran going back on that puck after going back on one from trennan who pasted him after going back on one against matt roy who pasted him yeah he gets trennan roy and

marchand three games in a row so in my area you could have hooked the guy a little bit run an interference sure could have water skied if if if you ever got to a point where a defenseman in my area

got pasted like that constantly like defense would come up to wingers and like literally punch them in the head slow them down please are you trying to get me killed okay

like that's a big please that was a big Mike Babcock please cutoffs literally punch them in the head. Slow them down, please. Are you trying to get me killed? Okay? That's a big... Please. That was a big Mike Babcock thing when I was there. Cut-offs. Interfere. Help me. Yes. Slow them down.

Give me a sec. I don't want to end up in a wheelchair. Yeah. Every time I go back on the pucks, guys are coming full tilt. Can you maybe give them a hook in the neutral zone for me? That's how dangerous it is. That's how mad Lilligren should be.

That everybody gets to look at me like I'm a bullseye. He's been smoked so many times so far this year. And now he's going to be out probably long term. Didn't look good in that foot. And he's been important for them. Yeah, now what? In the absence of steady guys, he's one of their PK guys on a PK that already doesn't have enough bodies. So now what?

Can you put Klingberg out there or lagason now on the pk by the way we should mention that's the first time the name william lagason has been said on our show solid yeah it's great i thought he played well outside debrusk yeah turnstile i mean that's gonna happen he's william lagason right but like you know if you're sheldon keith too like you don't have to keep waiting for the worst case scenarios to put a guy in. Do it from a strength, not from a weakness. I liked his game. And he came in and, yes, with the exception of maybe DeBrusque's goal where he kind of lost his check a little bit. But so what?

He was good. Played 15 minutes and did a good job in Boston. But do you have to lose like two or three defensemen before you tell a guy that he's going to get a better opportunity here? Well, I think this is all a theme we've, you know, the last few days of maybe Klingberg should have sat a game when it's going so badly that he's on the third pair and whatever. You know, on the third pair in whatever,

on the third pair in the second power play unit. Maybe over the last four games, I know we got a break to get to Doug here, but over the last four games or so, I can't really remember watching a guy do so many noticeably bad things. Klingberg. Yeah. It's Gustafson.

We used to say he's not good Gustafson. He's just Gustafson. He might be worse Gustafson. We used to say he's not good Gustafson. He's just Gustafson. He might be worse Gustafson. Like every shift, it jumps out to me. I'm like, oh my God. We know Bertuzzi's been benched here and demoted, but how can you just pick him and leave Klingberg to go continue to play? Well, I guess you want to really send a message and just go 2D pairs, but you already were down a guy. I think they probably would have. I'm just not talking about last night.

I'm just saying in general. I agree. Completely agree. I actually, you know, I've got an article out on Bertuzzi right now up on Sportsnet.ca on why he's in the doghouse. A bunch of video and all that. He hasn't been that bad. He hasn't. Like he's made enough mistakes. He turned pucks over,

throwing them away blind, turnovers, a couple defensive zone errors. But he's starting to get better. He's making some plays, some tips. Like, there's some good there, too. I hope that Keefe doesn't decide that this is his whipping boy. He's going to be on the third line next game with no one to work with. Like, I think Bertuzzi's finding it.

Oh, no, he's got to stay with that program. He needs to stay with Bertuzzi. At 5.5 million? Yeah. Yeah, you're not bailing on that. Next game, he needs to be right back there with one of those top two lines. Okay, let's take a quick break. If you thought we had some takes on the incident last night

between Marchand and Lilligren, just stick around for Doug McClain. He's up next on Real Kipper and Bourne. Fresh views on everything in the National Football League. It's the Fan Checkdown with Matt Marchese and Donovan Bennett. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back into the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. I'm Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee.

Let's go to our first guest on Off the Rail Fridays. From somewhere in the state of Florida, maybe from his RV, maybe his Porsche, the pickleball court, yoga, hot yoga. Let's bring in Doug McClain. Which one? Did I nail one? No, I was down by my pool, by our pool, just reading draft day. I just can't put it down. Yes, because at your age age you forget what you read what i wrote

all right anyway still on the uh number one um sellers list yeah four weeks in a row just announced last night the toronto star and global mail uh bestseller list, four weeks in a row. I mean, I just, I'm almost embarrassed by it, you know? Well, listen, for the next 10, 15 minutes, why don't you hit our number one list and explain to us what you saw last night. And me and you, we kind of get accused every once in a while of being uh old school or it's not the way it is anymore so so you tell me i'm wrong when i said that at a certain point when you watch a player on your team get carried off the ice then no longer in that particular game is the two points the most important thing you know what we've said it for a long time um

i don't know if it's been five years seven years but i i would love to see a lot more compete from a lot of guys you don't look i looked at the march Marchand hit sort of stick slew foot, whatever it was called. And I saw Tim Peel demonstrate that, you know, he actually moved into Marchand's path. And, you know, it was the right call. And you know what? It's like a great hit in a game where one of your players gets rocked and even if it's a great hit people hate when your teammates rally around the guy that would hit and give the guy that hit him a hard time i guess i am old school because i'd like to see a lot more of that from the leafs and i haven't seen it in since they become really nice guys They are the nicest team that I've ever watched.

They are so nice. They're pretty with their plays. They look great. I just don't see enough nastiness coming from them. And I don't mean you have to go after them or shove them, but at least can't you just yap at them at least or go up and give them a little shove or something, you know? I just, I was bothered watching it.

And I just look at the group. I mean, I look at their left wing and I say, Jarn Kroc to me is not good enough to be in the top six. Bertuzzi's not good enough the way he's playing to be in the top six. And now I'm missing something. Why is this guy not showing me much? So compete and left side looks pretty ugly right now. And I haven't even got to their defense.

And it was a hard-fought game against a pretty good Bruins team, although they're missing some key guys.'s actually it's funny you know they're down to nothing in boston last night and really rallied right like they played an excellent hockey game from that point four well basically five minutes into the second they kind of pulled it together and well the the big boys took over they did their best players were their best players again for sure and so the story today is not that they went into a tough building against an undefeated team and played well it is this side of it and doug kip is making the point that like the two points in that instance are not that important how do you square that away when you're a team trying to win the division

your elite talents all these sort of things, do you agree with Kip that, you know, they shouldn't have prioritized winning in that instance? No, you got to try to win. You know, you've got to try to win. But you also have to build and become a team. You have to become a team. And becoming a team. You have to become a team. And becoming a team means your teammates are what it's all about,

and you stick up for teammates. It's like people say, what makes a great captain? What makes a great captain to me is a guy that cares about his teammates. Not the best player, but he cares about them and works to cultivate team. And I still don't think they're there yet. And I, I agree that you want to win. I agree that you don't jeopardize the win to be dumb, but you still have to show that you're a team. And I'm looking for some guys like you guys keep talking Matthew Nyes. And I'm thinking, well, will you show me something?

No, Mac. You know what? I have got no issues with Matthew Nyes as a rookie coming in out of college. And there's some nights that he looks big and strong and protects the puck. You cannot put that much weight on his shoulders to say, hey, can you, Bertuzzi's a little slow right now. Can you step in and be the number one left winger? I don't think that's fair to him. No, but you, to me, you've got to show some bite in your game,

and I don't see enough. I don't care if you're 19 or you're 35. I want to see some bite in your game and i don't see enough i don't care if you're 19 or you're 35 i want to see some bite to his game and i haven't seen enough bite to his game and i'm i'm sitting there saying okay what is this guy gonna be you guys all have him as a star and i'm sorry i have not seen i've seen a couple plays i saw a couple plays in the playoffs i haven't seen enough this year for you guys to be talking like he's the second coming of frank mahab can i ask one more yes okay we had talked earlier i watched trevor moore play the other day for la okay a couple of games i've watched him play he could help the leafs right now trevor moore with the way he plays could help the Leafs right now. Trevor Moore, with the way he plays, could help the Leafs right now.

Okay, take me... They're not getting what he brings even right now from a lot of their wingers. Take me back to your days when you're behind the bench and you're watching this type of scenario unfold here. Because we just had a conversation earlier before you came on about Sheldon Keefe and what could he have done to manifest or push the boys in the direction of bringing them together?

Would it have been putting Reeves up with a shift with Matthews and Marner? Would it have been, hey, listen, go out and talk to him? Or do you leave it alone and you hope that the players take it upon themselves to figure it out? What would you have done if you were coaching last night after you watched

that happen? Well, you know, I didn't really have to do it because I had Paul Laws and he read it as well as anybody i i don't like to brag about the fact that the year we went to the finals he had 50 fights in in the season which is quite a bit 50 i said 50 in one season is that true fights but that's got to be the record. He talked as much as he fought. He would go.

I used to have to go down the bench and say, Lindy, calm Laws are down. Tell him he's not allowed to fight. Tell him he's not allowed to go after that guy that just hit one of our best players. You tell him to wait his turn. He's got to wait. But I mean, they were a team it

didn't matter if it was scrooglin if it was mellenby it was lowry if it was nita meyer if it was joe vanosky if it was rep warner it was all about team and sticking up for teammates you know and i i i tell you i told you the i've told you this the leadership, the greatest leadership story of all time, right? The Brian Scruton leadership story. Have I told you that one? No. Tell us now because we're not reading it in your book. Well, we lost 7-0 in Montreal, okay?

And I was really ticked off. And I went in after the game and I said, okay, boys, you guys, with your equipment on and your skates over your shoulders with your sticks you'll be on the bus at eight o'clock tomorrow morning we're going to Verdun to practice so have fun in Montreal tonight we'll see you on the bus at eight o'clock to go to Verdun to practice so I'm sitting on the bus they're all coming in and they're sour I'm sitting in the front seat of the bus they're sour they're ticked off they're really everybody's moping everybody's mad screw he's the last guy to get on the bus he steps on the bus and he's got his helmet on he's got a beer bottle taped to the top of his

helmet and the bus broke up like it broke up i was laughing so hard i couldn't compose myself you know because the captain of the team knew what the group needed and he comes on to show me that they went out and partied anyway just because i said they had to practice and he had the beer bottle taped to the top of his helmet and you know what we went out and had the best practice we had all year because screwy set the tone for the group so tavarez needs a beer bottle on his helmet today is that what you're saying i'm saying yeah you got to sometimes step outside the box and do things that build the team you know and build build camaraderie and make them look. They're so talented. They're such a good team. They've got to figure out who's going to play with Matthews and Tavares on the left side. I think Bertuzzi's a third-line guy.

I think he's overrated. I like lots of things he does, but to me, he's a really good... I see him as a bottom six guy. You guys all have him as a top six. I still don't think, you know, I don't see they, I still think they're short on the left side to play with Matthews and Tavares, and I don't know where they're going to find somebody. You guys have got Nyes up there.

I hope he's better than what I've seen so far. So, you know, but there's some team building that still has to go on. Last night was an opportunity, and I think they missed it. Where were you like six weeks ago when they signed him that he was a third-line winger here, and they have overpaid at 5.5? Nobody asked me. Like, see, that's the problem.

I'm perceived more like James Patterson now than I am like a cook. Doug, do you know a second author? No, I don't. Yeah, well, you're starting to sound like Stephen King. You're scaring us. Anyway, you guys have got it all figured out. I listened to you last night. You look good.

It's a nice-looking panel. It just doesn't bring a lot of... It just didn't bring a lot of meat to me. You look good. That's what I did. Well, one of the topics we did discuss was Ilya Samsonov playing pretty well. Did he make you a bit more of a believer last night?

No. Oh. Oh, come on, he was he was pretty darn good i like swayman's game i thought swayman made some great saves no sam's not fine i just i'm nervous about him i don't think he's a guy that's gonna win it i i really like the way the other kids play and i like the way he looks in the net i i like lots of things about him i think he'll be their guy i hope he can be the guy to to lead them but to me he's the guy i i mean is he too young i don't know but i i really like the way he plays the game and i i think he's going to be really good for them i really do all right listen um just to change topics a little bit, the Ottawa Senators, we watched a very spirited press conference out of Michael and Lauer. And I'm just wondering what your initial thoughts were, because there is a two school of thoughts, Mac.

And that is that, you know, it was it was great what he did. And it rallies maybe the Ottawa Senators a little bit and gives them some added bite. And then there's the other side that says, do you really want to challenge Gary Bettman? And that's how I think a lot of people perceived it, that he was kind of giving it to Gary a little bit in the league. Well, yeah, I'm sort of giving it to gary a little bit in the league well yeah i'm sort of confused as to how this all came down um you know with the with the league trade call with dorian's role in it with uh the league's role in it and and how it became a 70 page thing. Is it not like a paragraph? Why do you need 70 pages to demonstrate what happened?

Like seriously, what's that all about? So here's what I like. Gary works for ant Lauer. Gary always tells us I work for the owners. Well, if he works for ant Luer, then it's okay. If he's Antlauer's boss, it's not okay.

So what is it? Does Gary work for the owners, or does Antlauer work for him? But there are rules and regulations, and not submitting a trade list clearly is a violation of something. Yeah, oh no, clearly is a violation of something. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. There's a violation there.

There's no doubt about it. But it took 70 pages and months to figure it out. Like, how complicated was it? I know one of the trade things expired. Apparently, there was a couple of things in the trade thing that one of them expired. And maybe Pierre missed it. I don't know. But 70 pages to decide this and months and months and months. And I guess they didn that. I don't find Gary Bettman not to be in meetings. And anytime I've ever dealt with him, Gary's an upfront guy. And I'm a little surprised that that slid the way it slid. I love the fact that Ann Lauer says, you know, it's been a tough week. We lost three in a row and I lost three right side D.

I thought, geez, he sounds like a coach. Yeah. I noticed that too, yeah. What? I noticed that too, yeah. Like cherry picking. Look at him. He's involved.

He's Tom Dundon now. All I know is they've got to start winning because, as we all know, Thanksgiving, that 20-game mark, if you're out of the playoffs, there's a 95% chance you are not getting in. So Ottawa's got to win some games. And I like the spunk of Ant Lauer. And if Gary works for him, it's like me yelling at the maintenance guy here that the pool's not clean.

You know? The maintenance guy works for me. So I couldn't talk to him like that. Now, if it's different, if I work for the maintenance guy, I wouldn't say those things. I don't think you paid the maintenance guy close to a billion

dollars either. Must be a nice pool. I know. So I like Michael's spunk and I don't mind. I like Gary. I don't mind seeing him get a little heat once in a while. You and maybe a few others. I told you what happened with Gary.

I'm sure I told you this story. We're down the street. Jill and I were at this restaurant. We were coming out of the bar restaurant. I see Gary and his wife walking ahead of us down our street where we live. And I go, the NHL sucks! And he turns around and he sees me standing there. Of course, I'm working for

Sportsnet at the time. That's another reason why he's mad at us. Is that what happened? We've traced it back to the root here. The Leafs look good. I really believe they're going to be a contender.

We'll see. That didn't sound sincere. They have no left-wingers, according to him. No defense. He doesn't like Samsonov. But he leaves us on a Friday thinking that he thinks that they can win. Right. I just think they're better than Pittsburgh right now.

I know that. All right. Get back to your maintenance guy. See you later. Doug McClain. Thanks, Mac. Yes. Believe it or not,

once a former NHL president, general manager, and head coach. What's the name of the author he keeps saying? James Patterson. Oh, my God. That is the funniest. It's referenced him eight times.

John Grisham did not cross his doorstep. You could have said, I'm no Justin Vorn or Nick Kipri. That's what you guys are authors. Yeah, that's right. So if you had guys that just, like, it's like children. Sometimes you got to push them, and sometimes you got to, you know, reel them in a little bit. Right.

And that's no different than hockey players. And you had Paul Laos, 50 fights, 50. It's 40. His fight card's absurd. It's not just that year, too. Like, around that year 2025 26 i fought a zillion times here's a four-year run of penalty minutes for him 236 313 293 218 oh that's that's some heavy lifting for old lousy there'd be a good fighter yeah right you're taking a lot of blows yeah but then you got sheldon who okay he he doesn't have

a paul louse no not someone who wants to go out and fight all the time even reeves is like an older guy who probably would prefer not to fight constantly like those young guys who come up and it's like tanner juneau and you know he fights a thousand times by today's standards but he also plays hockey he does he's a hockey he's standards. But he also plays hockey. He does. He's a hockey guy. He had 24 hockey goals in one season. That's what I mean. He is a guy that can play in different situations as opposed to Reeves is out there.

Wilson goals all the time. I got to tell you, the Reeves experience is a whole hell of a lot different than I was expecting. I got to tell you. A lot different. You could change that. I would like it. It's literally a Saturday night against the Buffalo Sabres.

All right, our thanks to Doug McClain for keeping it off the rails on this Friday. We're back for our second hour. We go national. Plenty more to get into, including the Edmonton Oilers and the Vancouver Canucks. Rick Talkett will join us in the next hour. Stick around, everybody.

We're back after these words.