Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Nic Roy Traded to Colorado, Who's Next?

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with their reactions to the Toronto Maple Leafs sending Nicolas Roy to the Colorado Avalanche for a first and fifth-round pick. They share their thoughts on the return, whether it changes the team's plans for Scott Laughton, Roy's fit with the Avs, and what comes next for the Leafs. Then, they look back on the Leafs' shootout loss to the Devils, Auston Matthews' slump stretching to nine games, and the goals for the team down the stretch. Later, Sportsnet's Luke Fox stops by (34:26) to discuss the Leafs' vibes ahead of Friday's deadline, the disconnect at different levels of the organisation, and who else he expects to be moved. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Closing in on a Friday, 3 p.m. Eastern NHL trade deadline. It's the real Kipper and Bourne show. Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandale, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, and a very heavily sedated Nick Kiprios. All right. Let's talk. Can we talk? Have we done intros yet? Can I just say something? Yes. Okay.

I am not personally responsible for anything I say or do or damages to you, Sammy, or the Rogers Media Company. Do not have to operate heavy machinery for the next two hours, okay? The damages you guys incur in the next two hours, I am not responsible for. Oh, my God. What happened? I broke my back. I spun out this morning.

I had like a game to remember. Okay. I'm like scorn. I'm setting guys up. And I decide to back check. Oh, there's your mistake. Thank you. And I spun out on it in front of the crease and

Back is broken. And it was like Army crawl home. So my buddy Johnny, who just got out of the shower, carried my bag to the shower, carried my bag to the, parking lot with just a towel around his waist. We're passing all the older women getting ready for their figure skating classes. And they're like, yeah, can you take my bag out too to the car? Johnny looks like he's been cut.

Props to Johnny. From a rock. Oh, is Johnny the long hair guy? Yeah, I remember chasing him around that one. Oh, yeah. He was unbelievable. So you weren't able to do a whole lot after that. You, you tested, you thought you were done today.

Done, done. I was on my floor. Spinal. Living room. Yeah, I was done. I was cooked. And so you got some help? I did. Someone came to your house.

I did. And did a hell of a job. Had a backiotomy? Stuck a couple needles in me. Really? Yeah. You are playing hurt. But who's kidding who?

Who's kidding who? It's the drugs. Right? By the end of this show, you might be a nightmare. So if by chance I fall off, right, I'll try to unplug. You can say whatever today. You're off the hook, pal. Let it unfiltered.

All right. Let's give it our whirl here. Did I do the introduction already? Did I tell everybody we're watching on every sports net platform and YouTube? Did I do all of that? I have no idea. Okay, let's pretend I did. You did.

100% did you nailed it in fact. Okay. He nailed it. All right. So where are we today? Because Sammy, Toronto. The world is, wanting first round picks and they want prospects and they want all of that.

At least we got a little action for Nick Waugh today. Nick Waugh traded to the Colorado Avalanche for 2027 first rounder that is top 10 protected. And for a conditional fifth the next year, the condition just being that it's the worst of the three fifth rounders that the abs have that year. Tip of the hat to factory living because I didn't see it coming. No. I've been very clear on that that, you know, granted, this year or next year, probably you're looking at a 30th, 30-second pick, right? Yeah, I mean, it doesn't matter.

It's still, it's a needle mover, though. Yeah, it is. It's, you know, in the best case scenario of what the Leafs were going to do, I was hoping that they would be able to acquire a couple of firsts, some other high picks, whatever, that they could in turn trade. for a player, whether that be, you know, Robert Thomas or, you know, some other bigger name sort of guy, because they need help in terms of elite talent. It's tough to get without these assets. So if this is part of a bigger plan, awesome. If they're just planning on drafting a kid 27th,

two years from there, or a year and a half. Or maybe the 28th year. Well, it's next year in Colorado. Yeah, I suppose if Colorado really bottomed out, it could move to 20, 28. It's top 10 protected. And if it's after the top 10, then it goes to a 2028. Yeah. And if it's 2028, I think Austin would be like 39, maybe 40 years of age by then. Yeah, I don't think so. But so they've got a really, this is a great first step, whatever you think.

Now, it does change some of the math for their roster. Like, he was a very legitimate third line center. If Scott Lawton, who has been held out for trade purposes, also gets traded. Yeah. And John DeVars looks more like a winger than a center. You're looking at Matthews. Your center depth is Matthews,

Tavares, Quillan, Stephen Lorenz, maybe. It is funny that the three guys were held out last night for trade-related reasons. And one guy that wasn't held out for trade-related reasons is actually the one that gets traded first. It's almost like you showed this is the guy we don't want to trade and that made him more appealing for T-D. Yeah, maybe that's a little bit of reverse.

Reverse. Go ahead. What have he got hurt? Yeah. I mean, it's... Right? Maybe they legitimately didn't plan on trading him. There's still no real signs that McMahonke had traded for a first.

And all indications are right now that he's having trouble getting a second round pick for Scott Lotton. So if the best that he could do for Scott Lotton is the third round, you try to sign him, don't you? Yeah, absolutely you do. He's the one guy to me where I've done this on the short. already, but if they're serious about next year being a thing, then you have to have some guys. And Scott Lawton, you know, is a depth guy for you as he's got pedigree, he still skates well, he kills penalty, he could serve a role. It's hard though.

Give me a three-year deal tops, though. But if you do end up keeping him, then he'd probably like to know whose coach is next year. That could be a factor too, because I don't think he's been pleased all season long the way Barubi has used them. I know he hasn't. So do you just run the risk of seeing where those cards unfold in weeks or months after and hope he's still wanting to sign? I look at that, the trade they made where they got a lot more than people thought

that they were going to get for Nicholas Waugh. And it does lend me to them potentially. Like when I saw that trade today, I was like, maybe they should just keep Lotton. Like that was the first time I had the thought where maybe I thought they were going to keep WAA for next year or whatever. But I think maybe that the trade offer was too good for them to maybe pass up. It's a first round pick, whatever.

But yeah, it's just seeing them get that for Waw and having, I saw a Treli writing about what their center depth is going to look like next year. I mean, if he's willing to stay around and maybe it's something you're going to do, but also Kippur says maybe be a second round pick or whatever. I mean, if you're going to get that up to a first for Lotton, I think you pull the trigger obviously, but maybe that's not going to happen. I just, this trade changed my outlook on Lotton

for the first time in months. I'm not, I wasn't a big fan of Nick Waugh. It's not that I didn't appreciate him in many ways, but. Soft. Soft and, for me, he labored when he skated a little bit. Well, he does labor when he skates, yeah. But yet, teams had him way higher than Scott Lott. Well, you know why.

I mean, that's what I was saying on Monday or whatever. When we last talked about this, he's a 6'5 right shot center who played 16 minutes for a Stanley Cup winning team two years ago. 15 minutes. Yeah, there's more pedigree there for sure. And Leifes used them this year. They used them, right? I don't know what his average minutes were.

You mentioned Vegas. Did he play? Did he average 15 minutes this year for the Leafs? I mean, those are significant minutes. I'm not sure where the fit is in Colorado. for him, to be honest with you, with Drury there kind of locked in. I'm wondering whether he was brought in

to maybe be flipped or to come in and maybe you flip Drury, Jack Drury, there. But I'm not sure how you give up a first rounder from Colorado to bring him in and where he's going to play. Yeah, I think the Drury thing is possible. Like they just are looking for more depth

and think that Drury can play wing for them if he needs to. Right now down the middle, it's McKinnon, Brock, Nelson, Jack, Drury, Zakhar Barthikov. Okay, so you gave up a first for a fourth line center? Well, or Drury can be the fourth line center. Whatever you think he is. I mean, good center depth is good center depth.

He's playing 1445. Yeah, 1445. So those are significant minutes. Played 17 last night, but nobody was in the lineup. It's also not their problem. Yeah. No. You know, it's not the Leafs problem now.

It's like, yeah, sure, yeah. I will say one of the. things that I do like from a moving on from Waa perspective. And I liked Wai as one of those guys. I think he had more to offer maybe. But he is all the things that I didn't like about the Leafs as a team, big and slow, right? Like didn't have the edge or that like nastiness. You know, so you put in a guy like Quillen and give him a chance.

Look, I don't think they're better for having lost him. But I just need it to be part of a bigger plan. I need it not to be, you know, because there could have been. more creativity. There could have been further retention for a better return. There could have been more ways, you know, taking back bad money for more. It just, it's a good start. I'm very happy with a start.

And the reported, I think Seraveli maybe put out a tweet yesterday or like late yesterday that the asking price for him was maybe a first and a prospect or whatever and they weren't willing to retain. So I guess maybe they met halfway in the middle there where they weren't willing to retain, but they got the first and a fifth round pick instead of the prospect or whatever. so maybe that's the way it went. But yeah, I mean, it's a good trade for the Leafs. I think if you had to gone into this deadline and said that you were going to get a first

round pick straight up for Nick Waugh, the whole fan base would have signed up for that immediately. Yeah. Right? Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. What is the number for you guys to feel this time tomorrow?

It's over. Like, we've seen the names without going into them in great detail. how many more trades for you guys, we've seen one? Minimum three more for me. Four. You want four in total. The least. Minimum. Yeah.

Four bodies out for either assets of any kind in. Yeah. I mean, obviously I'm not saying for anything, but, you know, it is like McMahon to me makes no sense to bring back. I don't believe that he has five more years or whatever the length of the contract we talked about yesterday of success ahead. And those middle contracts always end up biting you. I just don't love the McMahon thing. And I think he has value.

He woke up and saw Keeper Sherwood. Right. With almost $30 million. I know that. And now McMahon's waking up, rolling out of bed going, I'm $4.5 million all day long. Yeah, for sure. I saw people who, some.

Five. Someone tweeted like that it's like a favorable contract for McMahon. I guess because it helps him out make his case or whatever. Like Sherwood scored 30. He leads the league and hits last year and this year. Like he's not. That's not what McMahon has done. Yes.

So he's at five and a half? 575. 575. Like I said, rolling out of bed, he should get four and a half. Totally. Now the Leafs want to get him under four. Yeah. And if I'm McMahon, I'm not doing it.

And that's why you have to trade him. Yeah. This doesn't work here. Yeah. But like at this point, Kip, do you think that they're still working to get him at a, or have they made up their mind on him? For me, he's going to get traded. I don't think that there's any gap that you can close to where McMahon thinks he should be.

Again, do you want to start playing with six and seven? year deals to spread out the money and and bring down the AAV. He's not for Bobby. Not for Bobby, man. And he's still perceived out there as a very good third line guy that could come in and play top six minutes on stretches. He could play third line left wing on a cup contender. You know, I don't think he's any higher than that. So the really popular link with McMahon was Edmonton.

and Stan Bowman today did a press conference. What did he say? Like we're... We could be done. I imagine we're done. I wonder if there's a package. I don't believe that for one. But if there's a package out there, including OEL and McMahon, to sweeten it up.

Detroit? So both would go in one... I could sense that if you're looking, if you're the Leafs past another second rounders and third rounders. and third rounders, and you actually need an A-minus B-plus prospect just to kind of hang your hat on a little bit, then multiple players usually are able to pull that off easier than just one guy. Yeah, Detroit does have all their firsts

and two of their next three seconds coming up. I think if you were to trade both of those guys in one swoop, you'd want a first and a prospect, and that would be pretty happy with that, I think. Yeah. And for them, they'd immediately be better. And, you know, you get OEL with term. You know, I don't know who else it makes sense for, but.

I could see three or four pieces coming back for a combo. And OEL, four pieces. Really? Yeah. That's interesting. You know, it's, you could be sitting here. You know, we could do our show on Monday and go, hey, the Leafs have, whatever, multiple firsts or in a bunch of seconds or, you know, whatever.

There could be real assets and a ton of caps. space and you go, okay, there's a vision here, there's a direction, you can sell this, guys always become available, you know, we don't know with the draft who's out there, but people are unhappy with their situations, good players. I am curious about St. Louis still. Like, all those guys are available. Yeah. No one's moved.

Pereco, Thomas, Kairu. They all have no moves. Yeah, I know that, but, you know, is, where will they go is the question. Like Pareco, guys in St. Louis and these turned down deals to Winnipeg and Buffalo, sure he'd say yes to Los Angeles. Just on the OEL thing, I would admit to you guys that, I know, if it's going to be a good package coming back from Detroit or coming back from, I've seen the Boston link here and there and maybe for living should just maybe not

call Don Sweeney anymore. No more deals with Boston. I think that's just something you should maybe avoid. But the thought of him going to a division rival, like I really, have loved the Oliver Recman-Larsen experience. That has been a shocking. For sure. Like last year, I thought he was really good.

This year he's clearly been, you know, offensively better. But just what he brings, he cares, he loves being a leaf. It does suck that you do have to trade him because he obviously wanted to be here. He made a four-year commitment. He didn't think the lease were going to suck halfway through his second year here. It just, I wouldn't love seeing him for two more years in Detroit. And he's one of the chances that they fill that slot in, that they replace him with something. that's even 70 or 80%

OEL. Right. Well, and at what cost, right? You know, it does get a lot harder. And as I've said, he's one of the guys who has three years a term. This year plus two more. Yeah. So, you know, you can flip him next year and he's still a valuable guy.

But I understand these things are at odds. Maybe I'm like, get as many picks as you can and trying to win next year. So it depends how serious they are about next year. But it also puts you in a position with OEL where you're genuinely not willing to move him without a great price. And that's a great place to be. We got Luke Fox coming in about half an hour.

And Brian Lotton will join us on our national hour as well. We'll get in a lot more on Colton Pereco turning down the deal with the Buffalo Sabres. Actually, you know. Strick was all over that one, boys. You know what? Strick was unbelievable yesterday, boys.

He brought the juice. He was like, he nailed it. He only wants to play in Toronto. He nailed it. Everybody's already. He goes not going to Buffalo. Everybody around, right, whether you're a podcast or another TV show or radio, whatever, they're like already breaking down what Pareko would meet is going to do for Buffalo.

And he comes on our show and goes, yeah, I don't think he's gone. You look at the case. He gets as close as he possibly came to the camera and says, uh-uh. Uh-uh. Just got a text here. Oh, man. That was some good stuff. But when it started floating around about Nick Waan, a potential first rounder,

I asked Brian Lawton, I sent him a text and I go, can you see a world where Nick Waugh gets a first rounder? He goes, yeah, Colorado. Oh, yeah. Coloss has been tweeting about, he's been insidering it up. He's hit on a number of things over the past couple days. So we're excited to have him at the top of the hour on our national program. last night.

I don't know. Was there a game? Last night. Is there a game, Sammy? Yeah, they got filled in again. I think it was a 60 shot attempts? 47 real shots? They gave up the most shots they've given up all year long.

I think there's 47 shots. Anthony stole ours. To a team that's 15th in the East. Worse than them in the standings. Why can't Craig Barubi kind of fix that same look? Every game. It's every game.

Why? I have no idea. That's not for the day. If you just said, I don't care if we score another goal the rest of the season, we can't look like that defending. Quit giving it back to them. It's, quit flipping it out, make a pass, hang on to it. Go cycle.

Get the Siddins on the team. I mean, I'm, don't be too fancy. This is a question for you guys, but his quote unquote system takes a ton of commitment, right? You're blocking shots. Blocking shots. You're working. It's got to be hard for Craig Baroube to play, to convince these guys to play the way he wants him to play when you're, what, 11 points out of a playoff spot and you're in dead lad. If it weren't every game all year long.

Sure. You know, if there's a new development. Since they've come back from the break, it's been particularly awful. Yeah. Like even the game against Philly, they had the good second period, but the first and third they got filled in for most of it. Like, they are playing like one of the worst teams in the league. God, if they're only tanked when I wrote that they should tank, that top five would be within reach, but it just isn't.

And can I read you what their schedule is coming up? Oh, this is fun. Stay tuned, folks. Because it's bad right now, fellas. Like, don't get me wrong. It's not great right now. But after, I'm just pulling it up here, sorry, after they play the Rangers tonight, home Tampa,

at the Canadians, home for the ducks, at the sabers, at the wild, home islanders, home hurricanes, at the senators. There's almost all playoff teams. It's going to get a lot worse here. And I'm starting to wonder,

you know, if they could, maybe for this hell scape of a season, they maybe get some lottery ball luck and they get down into the bottom five. I'm starting to kind of cling to that a little bit. I know it's not. I know, I know. Listen, I said as much myself,

I wrote it. You got any other teams thinking the same way right now. And to Doug McClain's point the other day, and to your point, it's almost impossible. You have to be, you would have to be vile. Win like five games the rest of the year. Where's the win in the next eight? Craig Bruby. This time.

They've lost every night. They're the worst team. Craig Barabee thought he was playing his best lineup in New Jersey. Yeah. And in Philly, in Philly, he put. they dressed their playoff team. They put Matthews and Neelander together with Nyes on the top line. McMahon.

McMahon, sorry, McMahon on the top line. And they went Nyes, Tavares. Do you guys want to hear any of the thoughts from last night? Yes, I do. Okay, so play the first clip on all the scratches and what the effect that had on the team one. Clip one, please, Derek. Well, it does.

I mean, it's tough. Like, we still, we want to win games and we, you know, and, you know, you know, when you come to the rink and there's, you know, three, three important players that aren't in the lineup, it's going to impact the guys, but I thought the guys came out and we're ready to play, which, you know, that's important. You know, I thought our captain led the way in that department. I thought he worked tonight and competed, but it's tough for sure.

I don't know, maybe my standards are too high. I didn't see a lot of that. Awesome. talking about all everything. Austin's like if you if you take the last two games in the Olympics, he hasn't scored a goal in 11 games. He,

he played 25 minutes and had six shots last night. Is that the way it's going to be for the next 20 games? Austin and Morgan playing 25 minutes a night? So is that needed? Coach is coaching for his job still. This is where I talked about it coming back on that show when I've seen people say that it's too late in the season to potentially let Craig go.

but this is the exact reason that like part of me just wants to set him free here where he's coaching last night to absolutely win and in the next week starting Saturday night against Tampa we are going to see some Marley's in this lineup we're going to see some some people you know out of this lineup and he's still going to be playing his top guys however much because his mindset is to win and credit to him or whatever but like they need a different mindset. sat here. March 27th, 2025, John Tortorella is coaching the Philadelphia Flyers. They lose 7 to 2 to the Leafs, actually. And after the game, he says, really not interested in learning how to coach in this type of season where we're at right now. And we came on air the next day, and we said, you can't have him go back in that room the next day. And he didn't. They let him go. It was March 27. I remember that very clearly. Today's March 5th. There's some parallels. You, you, the only different is Broomie wants this. He wants to be a part of this, wants to be a part of the solution and torts didn't.

But I would say, my only point there is that it's not too late in the season to say we just need. Set them for a different direction. Like, get them out of this. They're going to finish here. I would, uh, what I would do is I'd start bringing in half a dozen Marley's in the equation. And I treat the next 20 games like a training camp with excellence. exhibition games and show me what you have, show me how hard you want to fight for next year's job, show me that you want to be on the power play.

Just that's the way I think I would go about it. I mean, the wins and losses. So it's not wins and losses. It's just compete. That's all. So I'm totally with you. Get ready to learn about Bo Gruhl and Luke Hames and, you know, William Villeneuve and guys like that.

So that's cool. And I'm on board with that kept. Quillan. Quillan. How is Austin Matthews, how are Austin Matthews and William Neeland are going to handle that environment? And I think the point you'll make is that your pros be a pro. You're the leaders. But what do we expect?

Listen, they're not the first guys in the history of the game to be on a sucky team. Okay? It happens. Yeah. And you said it. Just be a pro. get to the end of the year, put your brave face on,

get to the end of the year, and then go have your meetings. Yeah. Right? That's going to be a hell of an exit meeting. Whoever is in charge. Who's going to be interviewing who in that exit meeting? Yeah.

That's a great question. Austin's going to be interviewing Brad? Who knows by then? Sammy GM. It'll be, maybe it's a Rogers employee. I don't know. I mean,

Fabro. I've been able to have. I build the hell of a beer league team with the zigzags. Maybe I could get in there. I don't know. I don't know. But somebody's going to do it.

But honestly, it'll be, instead of them saying to Austin, what are you going to look like next year and you come back? He's going to be saying to them, what are we going to look like next year when I come back? You can't BS them either.

No. Like, yeah, you may have to suck it up for a year. Ooh. But. Ooh, that's a tough sell. At this point of his career, that's different than four or five years ago. How can you look at,

any of them in the eye and say, we're going back to the playoffs next year. Because I believe that that's the story they're trying to sell. I believe the tree is trying to, well, keep his job by selling that story to everyone. I think, okay, well, just, I'm in for now. I got two years left on my deal, you know. You're telling me this with a straight face.

I'll go with it. And we'll watch. We'll watch. We'll watch your June. We'll watch your July. We'll watch your August. We'll see what the roster looks in September. And in December, I'm going to be in your office going, hey, we're 11 and 28.

Can I go to California? I've heard the kings are great. But to your point about treating this as a training camp and, you know, like seeing what you got, do either of you guys... I know. But do either of you guys believe that Craig Brubay, who's come in here for them to win, is not going to play Tavares and Matthews 20 minutes, 25 minutes? Do you actually have trust that he's going to play these guys?

What is the point? What is the point of doing it, though? Like, if you go, if you go, if you go 13 or 14 and 7, that's, now you're building on something? 14 and 7. Well, 13 and 7. What do they have 20 games left? If they went 13 and 7, that doesn't get you anywhere near the playoffs.

No. But you're going in next year saying, yeah, I saw in 13 out of 20 games that he's the guy. And these are the players. Yeah, I tweeted this earlier, and we text about it last night. The incentive to lose is twofold. One is to get low enough that you have a higher percentage chance of getting a lottery ball, right? First or second overall. So if you finish sixth, Kip, which is viable for them,

they would have 15% chance of getting first or second overall. That's as good as they can do. But here's the other part of that. By the way, all you're doing is just punting it. That's a dangerous thing. You're just punting it because. And it could be a first or second or third overall instead of a seventh.

Yeah, but if it's going to be top five, you'd take it. And then the next year and the next year and the next year are both completely unprotected. Yeah. The other part of this, though, is not a good recipe. Where you finish also affects. all your pick in every other round, right? If you finish seventh, you pick seventh in the second round, in the third round, the fourth round,

as opposed to going 13-7, finishing 14th or whatever last, and then it's just a better pick in every round. So there's some incentive to lose. I cannot see any incentive to win unless you believe in this winning culture and we're going to develop it. You're not going to develop it over the next 20 games. Not when you're trading players who could help you win.

Yeah, but I don't. trust that the coach isn't going to do that. Well, this we've talked with the disconnect. And if there's a disconnect between the coaching staff and the management. And I don't even want to say this as like a criticism to Brubay. No, don't blame him for one. He wants to win. He's the coach.

Like, I get it. He came here to win. It's just I don't think that should be their priority at this very time, which is a hard thing to sell to some people. But unequivocally should not be their priority. Yeah. You guys still feel like? Nyes is going to play the I'm hurt card kind of this year.

He's right. He's not. He scored, man. I'm just saying, though, like, if we do believe that there's something not there, and I'll include Matthews, like, you know, start thinking about shutting these guys down, no? Well, that's a fair point two and one that I made in my article as well a while back, that, like, if something's not right, then let's just get you healthy for next year. Let's get everyone so they can have a full summer of training.

It's not even about being ready for next year. It's about training all summer. Nyes, by the way, 50 points already this year in 59 games. I know it hasn't looked. Did you see the picture that's going around of Matthews in the dressing room? No. With like the bands. He's got all the canesio bands on his shoulder.

It's just like if there is, if he is playing through literally anything. Oh, yeah. Stop right now. And just it's time to hit the shelf, baby. Yeah. Shelf time. The man. to me got old like that.

Yeah. Kind of like you spinning out this morning. Yeah, kind of like me this morning with my back. But like, I did see the picture of him in the dressing room. You saw that picture. I saw it. And I'm like, is he being held together with masking tape right now? Like, you have more than enough evidence over the last year and a half boys to be like,

just go see a doctor and be ready in September. But to me, it just. Stretch a lot. I saw him and I'm like, God, he got old. It feels like he got old on us very fast. Yeah. I mean, that's how time was.

People like you wearing on it. Emotional damage. But do you see John Tavares go down the ice on that, on the ice goal with a thousand miles an hour? Flying. Flying. That's the best he skated. And like I've seen him in eight years here.

No, that was a bee line up the ice. And by the way, fascinating stat, which I think Sam you actually had in here, 300th assist. He is the 10th player in NHL history to record 300 assists with multiple franchises. And I was like, he does not fit assist. Yeah. This list is like Ron Francis and Messier and Gretzky and coffee, dish and magicians out there. DeVarge just shoots it off pads. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Getting those assists. There's a tomorrow's assist, a classic tomorrow's assist. I was going fallaway jumper that lands on someone's stick. Yeah, I'm going top cheese solo, buddy, and Apple. I should probably have that one there, Mark. Where's the goal he going? He's in the corner.

I was going at the middle of the net. I will say, watching three on three the past couple nights, hasn't been a great reminder of what happened a couple weeks ago. Seeing Jack Hughes zipping around out there. I was like, God, I don't want him. Didn't want him to win it last night. He was not burying a pretty clean look in three on three. three last night.

That hurt. What was that one? Italy. All right, take a quick break. Yeah, sure. Actually, what do you want, Sammy? Just to finish up, last thing,

on the Lawton conversation that we had earlier at the thought about, you know, now that you traded Waugh, Wang, to trade him or keep him, just listen to this clip from Easton Cowan on Scott Lawton from last night. I thought was really interesting. Clip one from Easton Cowan. Yeah, he's been nothing but good to me. Honestly, I haven't known him long, but probably wouldn't be the person I am right now.

without him. It's a great teammate. Yeah, it's unfortunate, obviously. It sucks. Would not be the person I am right now without him. He's been his teammate for like five months. That to me is crazy. That stuff matters so much to me.

It's going to be hard to replace that. Big time. They don't have that. Matthews isn't that. No, none of them are that. Yeah. That's kind of a problem. And to me, that's, I've said,

Lawton is one of the few guys that has the intangible makeup that have legitimate value to me. I would pay extra to keep. Totally. All right, we should go now. Okay, coming up next after the break, Luke Fox, NHL writer for Sportsnet.com. Follows the Leafs.

As much as anybody out there will get his thoughts on where the Leafs go between now and 3 p.m. tomorrow. Back after these words. The best Blue Jays show out there, period. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get. your podcasts.

Welcome back to the program. Let's go to our very trusted voice of reason on our show every once in a while. Luke, how are you, my friend? I'm doing okay. How are you guys? New York City, baby. Yeah, I had to come home early. Oh, you're not there.

We got a big show. We got a big show tomorrow. So in order to cover the game and get back in time for the big trade deadline show, I had to come home early. So I was in New Jersey, but I just flew home. I must have a lot of air miles, man. Yeah. Is there a sense the last few days being around the team that it's a real foreign feeling for this group to be in the position

that they're in. Could you see it in their body language, Luke, and the way they carried themselves? You're exactly right, Nick. And I feel like it's been slow to catch on. I feel like they were almost going through a denial stage. Like for me, I sense this building pretty early on in the season. They got that bump after Christmas.

But when they lost that five-game homestand, to me, that was the nail in the coffin. But it wasn't for them, especially when they went out West on the Troy Stetcher Revenge Tour and they won all those games. There was a real sense of belief. And I think just this week, it's starting to sink in. And the fact that, you know, I was around the team yesterday, those guys got scratched late. And they're standing around after the game just in their coats and guys are walking up to them. And they don't know if it's the last time they're saying goodbye to them.

It started to really hit. And I asked William Neelander, like, all you've known basically is winning and making the playoffs with this team. And how does this feel? Like, how are you processing what's happening? And he's kind of like, it's weird. I don't know how to feel. And I kind of don't want to think about it too much. I feel like it's just starting to sink in now.

And it's probably later than it's sunk in from analysts and a lot of fans. But it's starting to hit them now. Yeah, they tried to stay in the fight as long as they could. And so I guess I'm curious to your thoughts on the idea of trading the three guys that they've pulled out of the lineup. And the idea of a retool and competing again next year, are these things at odds? Or can they trade those three guys and go back at it again next year? I think they can. But where is the go back at it, Justin?

Like it used to be go back. Hang on. Go back at it and win a Stanley Cup. Now it's, you know, be the Boston Bruins, I guess, would be the model. And you're back into being relevant, fighting for a playoff spot, hoping you're healthier. There's a lot of hope involved, right? You're hoping Chris Tanniff comes back. And it's the Chris Tannup we saw two seasons ago. You're hoping Austin Matthews gets back to the production of two seasons ago.

You're hoping William Elander's healthier. You're hoping Matthew Nyes takes the step. He really didn't take. There's a lot of things that have to break right for you. And in my mind, I also think it's just overdue that they have a new set of eyes behind the bench and try to re-envision how they play. So I think there's a path to get back to the playoff status,

whether this is a Stanley Cup contender. That really feels like a stretch at this point. You're watching and listening to Luke Fox, Leaf and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. So in the meantime, Luke, 20 games to go. Now, you were around the team, it felt at least going into New Jersey that Craig Bruy was going to play his best lineup

like he did on the weekend. And the old switcheroo, three guys are out. And lo and behold, the one guy that isn't out gets traded today. How do you make sense of all of this? Yeah, it was kind of ironic, right? And we were talking to Nick Waugh in the morning about the trade rumors and what he enjoys about being a leaf, kind of bracing ourselves to write these stories of Nick Waugh

could get traded within the next 48 hours. And he is the one guy who gets dealt and he plays. It was really bizarre because Brubé was asked point blank about sitting guys in the next. name of roster management and he said not tonight and then got a chance to talk to some of the players after the game and Anthony Stollars didn't find out

until he ran into Scott Lawton in the lobby on the way to the game that he wasn't playing. Matthew Nyes had to get to the rink and see these empty stalls and be like, wait, what is that, what's going on here? And the guys themselves like Oliver Ekman-Larsen had played every

single game for the Leafs despite getting banged up. She was the only defenseman to play every single game. He fully thought he was playing and it came as a complete shock to him so whether that's brad for living got some things cooking in the few hours between a morning skate which didn't finish till you know around 1230 we talked to baroubae or and puck drop or he just came to his senses and said hey like i better protect what i got here and and scratch some of these guys i have enough healthy bodies to fill in but i was talking to troy stetcher

and he was like all ticked off that he wasn't going to play, and then he played. It was a really bizarre situation. And to me it speaks to there being a little bit of a disconnect. Oh, there's that word again. I know between head office and coach. I think there's one between what the coach, the style of the coach wants the guys to play and how they're playing.

I think there's a disconnect between the organization and the fan base. It all seems a little hazy. But at least it's starting to come into play. focus, at least, you know, we know they're selling right now with the Nick Waugh deal, at least signaled that there is some action being taken. So the guys that were withheld are the guys who presumably have some value for the Leafs. There are guys who don't have as much value who I'm not sure are a part of the solution here. Like Matthias Machelli this year, it didn't work.

You know, like I don't know if they're just going to take him to the end of the year and let them walk and not qualify them or if they're able to get something. Do you think like Benoit, some of these fringe? pieces have the chance to get moved in the next 24 hours or is this stuff they'll sort out in the summer? Sure. I think there's a chance. You know, if you're a GM who wants one of these guys, give Brad a call. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, I think he'd listen on Benoit.

I think he'd listen on Stetcher, Machelli for sure. He probably had his nicest goal of the year. Right. And he just was never a fit for the coach, right? It just didn't feel like his kind of player. And yeah, I can't see a world where he's back. So they probably don't qualify him. But if you can add him into a package with one of these other guys, then go for it.

And I really think they're kind of listening to all options. It's just, you know, times running out. A lot of the buyers have already started to make their moves. I saw Stan Bowman just say that, Basically, they're done now. You know, maybe he's being coy, but, you know, some teams have kind of already made their move. Luke, watching Anthony Stolars the other night,

kind of makes you, and probably many Lee fans go, man, what could have been, right? If by chance he could have had any luck and string out 40 or 50 games, but it's just not in the guy. No, he can't stay healthy. And I love the way he tends the net. Like there's still, it dipped for sure at the beginning of the year.

I think he got his wrist slap behind the scenes for coming out and ripping the team. He basically saw what we're all seeing now. He was one of the first guys to vocalize it. He wasn't wrong. Don't start me on that one. I know, I know. He should have cupped his mouth shut and I think he realizes that. I mean, even last night he said that they had a great defensive effort.

They didn't have a great defense. didn't have a great defense. I saw that interview and I was like, all right, all right, Anthony. They had a great goalie though. And when he's in the zone, there's like there's fewer guys that that you trust, like when he's really feeling it. So I don't know that the goalie market's so strange and it's almost like a buyer's market for goalies.

There's all these goalies available all of a sudden. But for sure, they can't go into the season with three of these guys because Hildevie isn't waivers exempt. So you're listening on Stollers, you're listening on Joseph Wohl. But when both those guys are at their peak, I think I prefer Stollers over Wohl. When they're at their absolute best. I mean, there's maybe three or four guys in the league, you're right,

who like when they're on that are better than him. He's got a great look in that. So we did then overrunder on total moves for the Leafs pre-deadline. I said I'd be okay with four. Give me four total, three more from now. Where do you think they fall on that scale? Total moves by the deadline. I'll say two more, but I think you're about right.

Yeah. I mean, I don't, I really don't like the idea of resigning Bobby McMahon for the key for something key for sure would light. I think he's a great story. I think he's a great kid. Fast as hell. But I don't, I, I'm not giving that guy term if it's, if it's my call. I think he brings something you could probably find for cheaper and less of a term commitment. So if he's gunning for something in the ballpark of Sherwood, I trade him and I let him walk.

The Lawton one to me is interesting because I think he's also priced himself out. But the great irony here is they need more Scotland's. They need more Oliver Ekman-Larsons. These guys are so good for that room. They're adults. They give you a straight answer. They help their teammates. They set a good example.

They play through pain. They actually need more of these guys. And it's too bad because they're the exact type of guys that if you're about to go on a deep playoff run, you want to rent them. I get why there's interest in them. Luke, great stuff. Have a great trade deadline.

day tomorrow, pack a big lunch and bring a deck of cards or something too, just in case. I'm just setting up shop at the Ford Performance Center. There's no practice. It's just hanging out, waiting for news. It's waiting for guys to walk by with a garbage bag

full of equipment. That is Luke Fox. NHL writer for sportset.com. So I got to think Brad's sitting on something and it's just a matter when those teams come back to him and say we're ready. He did it to Calgary last year,

where, or I'm sorry, he did it to Philadelphia last year as he sat on Calgary, trying to get Anderson and Weger. So you think he has stuff in place? I think he does. I think other teams do.

And wouldn't surprise me, again, to see these lesser teams now that are kind of, Utah has a lot of, Irons, I think Anaheim, like if Bobby McMahon ended up into Anaheim, it wouldn't surprise me at all, right? One of those teams that are like, hey, okay, nobody's really looking at us as a Stanley Cup contender, but Bobby McMahon can come in here and if he could show his worth and get some great chemistry with some of our big boys here, I'll give him four and a half, five million bucks next year. Totally. Yeah, you can see that.

and Anaheim's, yeah, you mentioned the theme in that Pacific. It's like, you get hot for a couple weeks. What do they, conference final? What do they have to give up to get Bobby McMahon? Second rounder? I think that's, I think that's the going rate right now. It's just tough because, like, that's not the going rate. Like, Nick Dowd was the second and a third.

I know. I know. You know, like there's big movement on guys that are pretty just okay. Those guys kill penalties, I think, and their key face-off guys. and Bobby's just Bobby McMahon. I think if you put A miles an hour.

He plays for the leaves. I think if you put those guys in a room Can't say he's worth anything. I mean, I'll tell you, Nick Dowd, I didn't see that those multiple picks there either. So I don't know, there's a going rate for

center ice been right now, guys. Some of these guys, it's McCarran and Dowd and some of the value that they're getting. It's a high bar right now. A few desperate teams, you know. You just need one. So just mentioning, like, I look at Calgary right now

and everybody says, yeah, three second round picks, basically is the meat of that trade for Weger. But the Leafs kick their tires on Weger. And Calgary said, no, we're not making them available this time last year. And then a year later, you move them for three second rounders when the Leafs would easily give you their first and Minton. Now, you tell me which trade you would rather have today. You know, did Calgary think they were something different than they are?

Were they hoping to come back? I don't know, but like this time last year, where we have no interest in moving Uighur. God, I'm going to Uighur over Carl. I just wish, honestly, I just wish Wigger was on the, sorry, he was, Mitten was just on the flames. Yeah. It would be so much such an easier build as fall.

Okay, more of that talk when we come back in our national hour, Brian Lawton, who's been there, done that in every conceivable way. As a player, as an agent, and as an executive joins us next. As we get ever so closer to trade deadline Friday 3 p.m. Eastern. Don't go away. We're just getting started.