Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Nylander Inks 8-Year Extension

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with their reactions to William Nylander signing an 8-year, $11.5 million AAV extension with the Leafs earlier today, their thoughts on the figure and term, the timing of the deal and the complete no-move clause. Later, a deeper dive into how the extension impacts key contracts looming shortly like Mitch Marner's, why this season's result is crucial for planning next year's cap situation and how Brad Treliving can get the edge ahead of Marner negotiations. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Derek Brandeo giving me tips on how to open up a show now. That should have been on air. It's Willie Day. open up a show now that should have been on air it's willie day as i said derrick brandeo our tech expert calling it willie day nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee jen rolnick also on board for the next two hours yes it is it's the real kipper and bourne show and let's make it officially the willie nylander edition of our show uh as it's been noted willie nylander signs a long-term deal extension with the toronto maple leafs eight years 92 million dollar contract full no movement front loaded willie nylander is a very rich man today yeah okay so max years about max of the high end scale dollars that we thought it would get to

max coverage trade protection max front loading max max max uh the maximum maximum Max. Max. The maximum. Maximum. Maximum, Willie. We were able to kind of get ahead of this last week on our show, last Wednesday. Yeah. Well done, fellas. Yeah. It was good.

Yeah, listen, I mean, it's always nice to be a little bit ahead of the curve on a few things. That was a nice moment for our show. No question about that. At the time, did you feel like it was a split feeling amongst Leaf Nation that this is a good thing when we first said that this was going to be a max deal north of 11? We had suggested 11 to 5. It moves up another quarter of a million dollars. Was that a difference for you guys that could sway your feeling? Or it is what it is.

We'll start with you, JB. Yeah. I mean, a little bit. A little bit it does sway my feeling. But, you know, I think what's going to be unsatisfying for people as we talk through this and the different angles of it for coming from me anyway, is that this can be two things where I think it is, you know, the contract is not going to be debilitating for the Leafs. And in fact, I think probably fair market for value for a guy, you know, I think it's okay but on the other hand i think what's going to be frustrating is just that you saw guys like kachuk signed for less money you see aho signed for less money there's these this belief that you could have got it cheaper he didn't save them any money so there's the

frustration of like you were hoping it was going to be cheaper at the same time i don't think it's that terrible so i you know i am unfortunately i don't hate it i don't think it's that terrible. So, you know, I am, unfortunately, I don't hate it. I don't love it. It's okay. Wish it was better for the Leafs. Over to you, Sammy. Yeah. Oh, he just signs a deal and you start with sticker shock.

Sticker shock here, boys. Yeah. Sticker shock. Come on. It is. What can I say? I'm, I think it's. Sticker shock.

Yes. He just told you it's a fair deal he's uh here's what i keep coming back to and i've been thinking about this way too much over the past two days it's a fair contract for the human being that william neilander is right now on the ice they paid him at his absolute apex could not have been he could not today maybe his peak value ever playing any better than he has to this point of the 2023 2024 season this is his best he's ever looked and i acknowledge that last year was a big step for him as well too so i can't i'm not going to take that away from this contract like this better be him now because if it goes down a level after this or next season

when he starts actually making the money i'm telling you the way this is going to go amongst leafs nation and it's already not very well received wasn't that the delay all about the leafs to your point saying this better be the real Willie now. And wasn't that why it went from a summer negotiation to a January 8th official announcement is because they've got to see what they think is a long stretch of what the real Willie should be. Well, I see your point.

And I think that's what happened this summer when it was like, okay, he could sign the deal and the Leafs are going, okay, he just scored 40, almost 90 points. He was good in the playoffs. This is the peak of his value. Let's make him do it for another half season before we give him the money. And eventually it just went up from there. You know, I think that's your point, right, Kip?

They gave him time and this was it. But you can't negate the fact that he's been below a point per game player his whole career up to now. It's pretty uncommon, I think, for a guy at 26 to just become one for the next 10 years or whatever. Just note, at 5.30 Eastern, we will welcome in Willie Nylander. Yeah. We'll make him available.

So we'll ask him a ton of questions as well. Not sure how many answers we're going to get. What's your number one thing you want to ask him? Tell us about Sugo. What's your favorite thing on the menu at that hat you wear all the time? He likes it. He does. He likes it.

What about you, Kipper? I don't know. Where do you get your undershirts? I mean, can my arms look as good as yours if I get the right undershirt? Elliot Friedman as well on the top of the hour. So we got a jam-packed show. So many ways that we can get into this deal for Willie Nylander. Just in terms of now, what I think the Leafs were able to do

that they were not able to do with Matthews or Marner is get the max term allowed. And is that not seen as a win in itself? Because you had talked about this many many times on our show sammy yeah what's wrong with an eight-year deal why is everybody signing four or five or six like why doesn't anybody want to make a huge commitment if we really think about austin matthews for the next four years at 13-6, isn't 11-5 for eight a good signing? Hold on now.

Matthews is 13-2-5. 13-2-5. Thanks. Okay. I'm gathering the feeling that you think this is good, that you like it. I'm not saying. I'm just picking up what you're throwing down here. I at least had no choice.

That's well here. If I was Brad Tree living, if I was Brendan Shanahan, I would have done the same thing. Okay. That's where I'm coming from. Any analysis of this deal, to steal the phrase of a friend of mine, that doesn't start with what would he have got as a UFA is probably not very useful.

So let's start there okay just note too just to follow up on you he's only eligible to sign for seven years if it's not a sign and trade right and for him to to be equivalent to this deal today would have been 13 million dollars right do you think he could have got 13 million on the open market but also kip that is assuming he doesn't play that eighth season with the team. He could re-sign, let's say it's for $4 million at the end of his career, whatever. He's probably going to get some dollar amount in that year. It's an option for them anyway if they want him.

So to me, it's 12 by 7. Someone would have given him 12 by 7 because at the cost of no asset for what Willie Nylander is, that's probably what he could get on the open market. Someone would have given him 12 by 7 because the cost of no asset for what Willie Nylander is, that's probably what he could get on the open market. So from there, the Leafs say, we can give you, other teams could have front loaded the salary. Other teams could have helped him out in a variety of ways. But the Leafs can say, we'll give you the extra year and you're already here. You're comfortable in Toronto and we'll give you the extra year. Let's walk it back to half a million. That's kind of how you get to 11.5 i do you know

i wish that had been worth more for the leafs the ability to do the extra year and that you're already in toronto and you want to be here and i also think that there's value in giving more back to the team in the terms of public perception so that hasn That hasn't been the case, right? To me, this is all he... This is the most he could have got and he just took it all. Like the Leafs really got nothing back in any of this. What part of...

That's a question I'm going to ask you guys. Yeah. What part of this negotiation... This wasn't a negotiation. No. It was a concession. It was a concession. You got to a point where they said,

okay, fine, we'll give you what you're asking for. Yeah. So there's not like one part of this deal that's like oh wow at least the leafs got a break there and eight years of full no move like i can i just clarify something i'm really happy that william d lander's here for eight years yeah that's important you're noting that because like i've really enjoyed watching him play particularly over the last two years where i haven't been as frustrated with him and he's really taken a step and i'm thrilled there you go i want this to be through the that sort of lens but again at the same time we talked about this a little bit on these talk on saturday

it's like you know these guys all rave about how much they love being here and it's like this is all i care about being a leaf and it's like well then like could you take 500k less per year for eight years or like could you give one concession in like it just they love it it's like, well, then, like, could you take 500K less per year for eight years? Or, like, could you give one concession in? Like, it just, they love it. It's like the cake and eat it. They get the cake and eat it, too, at all times. It just drives me a little bit crazy from that perspective.

I'm sorry. No, I agree. And so to follow up on that, I think the way he skates and his size and strength and the way he shoots it, that's going to hold up. He's going to score goals for years and years here in Toronto. So I don't hate the contract. That's why I say I think he's probably worth 11.5, but I don't think they got any sort of savings.

It seems more and more agents today do focus on percentage of the cap. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. percentage of the cap and willie will have take 13.1 off the leaf cap which marner i think was just a hair frack a hair above it at 13.2 and i think austin's in that ballpark at the time of signing is that yes at the time of signing yeah yeah i think i think marner is 13.3 um so it's like very similar yeah yeah so i think pasternak was at 13 four i don't know i mean yeah panarin could ask for 13 5 13 those numbers are from that could have gotten him close to $12 million a year. Well, that's maybe where they started.

Maybe at $13.1, that's decent concession. Well, yeah, maybe. The best thing I think the Leafs have going for it is that the salary cap is supposed to go up 5% this year and 5% the year after. And I know there's people... The thing I've hated seeing the salary cap is supposed to go up 5% this year and 5% the year after. And I know there's people, the thing I've hated seeing the very most is, oh, it worked out great for the Leafs last time

they banked on the cap going up. And it's like, well, you should bank on it going up. And you're not going to plan for world pandemic level stuff. So assuming there's no world pandemic here, you would like the odds of it going up. And Willie's salary could in time, in short time, end up looking like, okay, if Tavares is making $4 million two years from now,

and so the group of those four guys is then making, you know, 38 or 37 million, while the cap is up another $10 million, it suddenly starts to look okay. So some of this sounds like justification justification but he is a good player it is going to look better in time but yeah coming out of the gates it just doesn't feel like a massive win it feels like he's staying and that's good yeah next year is just a i mean they have a good team this year and you know team with some aspirations and a team that i think has a little bit of jam to it or whatever.

But I hate to look by this season. But next season's just a disaster. You can't even begin to go there, Sammy, on next year. And, of course, this will play his 11.5 AAV kicks in next year. What does that mean for other players now to fill out the roster? And there's going to be juggling, no doubt about it. But where is the juggling begin in your mind? And can it even without knowing how the end of the season looks?

That to me is all of it. And this will get to eventually that conversation of Mitch Marner. Mitch Marner is eligible to sign the contract. Mitch must love this contract. He's eligible. That's the floor. He's eligible to sign July 1st, no different than Willie was this past July 1st.

And what kind of conversation does that start? And where is the vibe between Mitch Marner's agent, Darren Ferris, and the Leafs? Did they get knocked out of the first round? Did they get past the second round? Was Mitch a contributor? Is there a conference final involved? Did they get to a...

Think about the narrative of that negotiation on two sides. An early exit or a deep run. Yeah. It's a completely different conversation. And then you're going to have a better understanding of whether or not Mitch is truly licking his chops on this deal.

Because I can assure you that an early exit by the Toronto Maple Leafs this spring will not lead to Mitch licking his chops talking to the Leafs July 1st. No, but it might lead to Mitch licking his chops with whoever he's traded to and getting re-signed there. But now we're having a different conversation, right? Now we're having a where do the Leafs go from here?

And listen, you trade Mitch. That's essentially waving the white flag and blowing this thing up. Okay? It is. Yeah. You know, I mean, it could. I suppose how that looks in return. Not necessarily blowing it up to let's start from scratch,

but now you are seriously into a plan B. Yeah. It's a different looking thing. It's a different beast. Yeah. Yeah, you're constructing a different team. And I think there's a lot of people who would make the case they think it should be different.

But the one thing with this is you know it's not that easy to just trade a guy like him or a guy like willie who you know was going to be owed a lot of money and they're some of the elite players in the league you know like it's i think they considered i shouldn't say i think the leafs considered and called around on what willie's value was out there they couldn't get back anything close to commensurate value. And people out there always say they should just trade him for a D, allocate some of that money to the back end. It's not how it works.

Yeah. No one's given you. And you know what else doesn't necessarily work all the time? Outside of a player's production in the past or his talent level is, are you built for this city? Can you handle this city? Do you know how many players of great talents have put on the Leaf uniform and then found a way to kind of crumble between the ears?

Are you tough enough to play this game? That is not willie willie willie has proven also that he's very much built yeah for this city which cannot be said for any superstar in the league some are more comfortable with less attention less pressure this guy he can he can score six goals in six games. He can go 0 for 6, and you really can't tell the difference. No, you're right. And that's not a bad thing in this town. Not a bad thing in this town. And I do think that, you know, he has, the fans have earned the right

because Willie didn't take some massive discount or whatever that when it doesn't go well to be on him a little bit and it won't faze him and he'll just continue to be Willie. If there's one thing Willie's probably used to is leaf fans being on him yeah they've been training him forever there's a certain sect of leaf's nation that you know to the west and east of here that don't necessarily love william nylander today is a massive loss for some people well i was gonna say today is a kind of a ending point of a tentpole conversation for Leafs Nation forever. He has had no move for eight years.

Everyone's been trading Willie since the day he got here. As soon as the playoffs ended, it was like, well, it's time to start talking about the offseason. Where's Willie going? It was a very popular conversation. Yeah, he's going wherever he wants to go, which is right here. I'll tell you another thing. Past the $92 million and the eight years,

what I think doesn't get played up enough is what you just mentioned, a complete no move. Like that is huge for players. That is large. And people wanted to always compare Willie to Pasternak. Pasternak got 11.25. Willie was able to jump that by a quarter of a million dollars. Which is crazy. But I'll tell you, go look at the finer print on Pasternak's contract.

No move for just four years. Yeah. Really? Yeah, there's some then it gets into a very tradable contract it's uh like an eight team and then it's a 10 team and it gets more tradable as it goes on really yes and that to me is a huge differential yeah massive when you talk about uh you worry about the end years and you can't do anything about them here. Where the end years are. Yeah. And you know

what else kind of catches me in here, Kip? Sorry, finish your thought. And my thought is that just like Willie, I would have said, not a chance you're jamming the Pasternak clauses in on my deal. Yeah.

Because I watched you give Matthews a complete no move. I watched you give Tavares a complete no move. I watched Mitch Marner get a no trade, a complete no trade move. You think you're jamming something else down my throat? Not a chance. Yeah. I deserve what they deserve and the lee said yeah you're right yeah watch him shoot at the net yeah you're right you know what else i think is kind of interesting about the contract and i haven't heard this mentioned anywhere is

uh willie's base salary versus signing bonus is the most lopsided in 26-27 and the year after, which is when the CBA expired. Complete lockout strike proof. Exactly. This contract. Exactly what I was going to say. So he's covered himself for lockouts. He's covered himself for trades. He's covered himself

in every conceivable way here. Covered himself in money. He's just Huell on the stack in Breaking Bad. Just to kind of follow up a little bit, this no move. It's not the be all, end all. Of course, you have the player have final say. But, you know, if clubs want to get players out with a complete no move they can still do it but it's gonna get a little greasy well and not john tavarez though you wouldn't do that to

your captain listen if uh but maybe if yeah again it doesn't go as well as everybody would like to have seen this spring yeah it's an option to ask john to waive his no move as early as this summer if you don't feel like you want to trade mitch marner right away so yeah like if yeah tavarares scores round winning overtime goals, it's different than if he goes, you know, zero goals, three assists, and then losing six games or something in the first round. Losing five to the Panthers in the first round. Panthers, by the way, won seven in a row. They're looking good.

Not the ideal. Should we hear from. Oh, yeah, we have clips. Some of the Toronto Maplers involved. Yeah. Sammy. Well, we have William Nylander coming on, so we don't need to hear about it.

Hold on. Before we go to the clips, just one more thought. Okay. Nylander's going to be 35 when this thing is done. Yeah. Sounds right. Mid-30s. Yeah.

If, in fact, you wanted to trade him after year five, again, if he didn't have a complete no move, a very easable, easy contract, movable contract based on the fact that how many teams in five years will be max teams? So you'll gladly take a knee lander, right, with an 11.5 AAV if you're nowhere near the max cap by then. And now that's not the case in the NHL because the Leafs cannot hold anything back

and everybody's up against it. But five years from now, they won't care how high the aav is for some teams because all they'll care is it's real cash which probably would be a base salary of what two three million dollars it uh base salary the last two years are one million dollar salaries that's all that's all that will matter to teams if when the cap's going up six million in 2032 it'll be great yeah that could be trouble. Right? Anyways, okay. 2032, by the way, that's the future.

That doesn't even exist. 2032 is when his contract expires. We're still doing our show then. We've really done well. We want to start with General Manager Brad Treeliving on signing Willie. Let's start there. Clip one. Well, I think it's important.

Listen, I said it when I first got here. there's some really good players. They're hard to get. They're hard to keep. And when you got them, you try to keep on to them or hold on to them. So I think it's a good day for us. A real good day for us to get them signed. We're excited to get them signed. Top player

in what I believe just entering the prime of his career. So we're excited, but it's a good day for us. So number two, you want to hear that? Well, I don't know if anything turned to Chris. It's a process to go through. You know, I think when you have the starting point of a player that wants to be here and a team that wants to keep him,

usually you can find, you can get it done. Listen, it's a big contract. It's a lot of money. And so you go through that process. But I don't know if there was ever an aha moment. We were, you know, you arm wrestle. You go through it. But I don't think there was ever a time

where we felt we weren't going to get to the finish line. You know, because of what I said, the player ultimately wanted to be here. We wanted the player. So you find a way. Yeah. I mean, what was he going to do? There was an aha moment when they said, okay, we got to get this done. That's the aha moment.

When we will pay the money you want to pay or you want to get paid and that was just prior to the christmas break yeah was that right yeah i just it wasn't on saturday night when he almost split the puck in two when he went hit it off the bar so hard god that thing rattled off the post and in and also that's kind of his spot like you know where he's shooting from right hand low blocker from that position. It's like, that's going in. But yeah, like I just sit here and you look at the player he is and has been for them and you look at what happened to Johnny Goodrow in Calgary and Tree Living and him saying, you know, we can't have that happen again.

And you can't recoup trade value for Willie. And you can't just let him walk. And he's scoring 115 point pace. Eventually you hit a point where you got to go, yeah. Okay, you win. We can't just let him walk, and he's scoring at 115-point pace, eventually you hit a point where you got to go, yeah, okay, you win. We can't replace him. We can't replace him. We can't just let him leave, and we can't replace him.

So, like, they had him. Willie's camp had him over a barrel, and they finished the job. You got to give the old William camp a ton of credit here. Because I guess you guys want to play the cheaper in the summer clip? Because I think it's a good conversation. Number three, yeah. I wouldn't say the price was any cheaper in the summer.

So this idea that all of a sudden the price, you know, we got to a point where everybody felt, you know, felt to get a deal done. And I think it's like any deal. You're probably always a little, you know, felt to get a deal done. And I think it's like any deal. You're probably always a little, you know, we always want a little less. The player always wants a little more. We find a way to get a deal done. And like I said, at the end of the day, we've got a really good player here that's going to be here for eight more years.

So that's, we're happy about it. Do you believe that it wasn't cheaper in the summer? I do believe that they asked for the same amount. I don't think it was cheaper in the summer. No, no, there was no negotiation. Zero. Throughout the whole thing. The Leafs were saying, show me, do it again. No, they're saying

we want it 11-5 times 8. And the Leafs balked. And they threw out 8s and 9s and 10s. I like living in that world. What do you think?

No. Let us know when you're ready for 11-5 times eight. So that's what this is. So they offered them that. That contract has been sitting there for however many months. They were sitting there being like watching him shoot it off the barn and in every night. Yes.

Be one of the best players in the league. And they're like, finally, we're just like, okay, here we are. That's how this happened. Yep. Okay. I happened. Yep. Okay. I mean. You're getting first. You're last.

The stats right now are pretty out of this world. He is still top five tied with Connor McDavid, you know, in points right now. He's got points in more games this season than any player in the league. He's going to score 40 40 goals for consecutive years it's and he's strong he's i mean he's a great hockey player he is a great hockey player yeah there's no question about that right and he's been going a lot yeah so let me just ask you this because i get the feeling that you're you've totally been swayed here in terms of where and

willie with willie like you're not balking at this at all. Oh, he's a much better player. He's proven it over... He's won me over for a contract of this magnitude. Okay, so you don't think there's any world where this is, like, not as good next year? Oh, no, they could still lose in the first round. No, no, like, going forward,

you think there's no chance that he's, like, his play isn't as he becomes a 70 point player and i think this is just what he is i hope not but it it's okay if he goes two or three games where he completely disappears because we're not we're not at that point where we'll ever believe that he's is he a driver a complete driver of the game? Right now, I think yes. Yeah. There's no question with him shrinking the inconsistencies.

I'm with you. But this is really the first time we've seen it in his career. Yeah, I'd argue last season too. So if he can maintain that, then the Leafs and the the fans are better for it but if he if he disappears for three or four games i wouldn't be overly shocked and i wouldn't necessarily hang it over his head either because somewhere there's there's this really talented player that at times can have these lulls yeah and i think that will come back into play you just hope it's not at the same rate

that we saw in the first six years of his career yeah you know i i'd made some comments about um you know questioning what his motivation might look like on a long-term deal but the more i've thought about it like you know yeah that could still be a small element of it but he just kind of plays the way he plays you know like he still is this similar guy i don't think he's going to suddenly become a 70 point guy again the other thing that i really like for willie is he plays he's a reliable you know you talk about availability is the best of ability he plays i think he's played 81 82 81 82 nobody gets hurt but not on this team well apparently why would you do that why would you do that we want them guys they're

not running over you know they're not running guys through the boards here you know they're pretty durable like austin took a pretty tough rap was it on saturday night or whenever it was that he went into the boards hard and Very seldom you see him in that position. For sure. Very uncommon. But he did. He went down pretty hard. He's all right.

Yeah, that's true, though. He does play every game. Yeah. You can count on him. All right. I'm just a little, I guess I'm just gun shy at the number. I'm happy that he committed to eight years, but I just do worry about a dip. Yeah.

I'm sure your guys' texts and tweet mentions are a lot of people going about willie which is me i'm the blog that's me the blog guy is based on the fact that you've had these guys for how many years and never really saw true success. And to this point, up until our last show last week, is it the right balance? Is it core four guys all making now plus $10 million, and we're going to get Brad Treliving to comment on this, and we'll get his comment, and then I want your comment coming out of this on whether or not they're just buying the same

losing recipe of all that money up front to forwards and very little on the back end let's go to Brad Traylor in clip five certainly that's there's always challenges right um Pierre and I think all we can do is we could only tackle these things one at a time, right, when they came up. So I got here and, you know, Austin was the priority. You know, Austin and Willie were both going into their final years. We're able to get a cap that increases, but we're also not blind to the fact that there's other areas of our team as we move forward that you have to improve,

and we'll continue to do that. So I don't have any bold statements or proclamations to make today other than we got a really good player signed. Now we move on to the next. So I'll say like, that's the part of the conversation. And I've had these conversations with other people where I've kind of stopped people and gone,

that's a different conversation than the Willie contract conversation, because, you know, is the team construction, right? Is a relevant, important Leafs conversation. But with Willie's contract contract you had to get him

signed and we've done this on this show today you had to get him signed you didn't have other options is it a fair deal that's a different conversation from the whole picture of it now he's signed and you can go okay now what now that the deal is signed now what do we want to be well how do we want to look because willie's going to be here willie's going to be a part of it is mitch is john are you allocating money differently yeah that's kind of him talking about it i agree him being like yeah like i didn't sign marner's contract i signed matthew's contract which was my job i signed neil andrew's contract which was my job and then they will take him as they come here but yeah i'd be interested to see how he looks at it going forward but last time brad had a crack at signing a big contract like this it didn't turn out so well in calgary no i mean people are not happy about the hubrid

deal listen guys that's my greatest fear here. That he turns into Jonathan Huberto? Not that bad. But like, it's a very similar situation as a guy who's had a good career on the up and up, has a massive career year. Yeah. 115 points. He's on pace for 115.

Where have I heard that number? There are some eerily terrifying parallels here. No one will argue that you don't think tree went to sign this contract like this oh my god because i do god there's gonna be some guys at the end of their years that'd be like tree buddy i'll send you a christmas card every year as the general manager brad's in that position to be the face of this signing. But it's really consistent with the last six or seven years, this contract. And that's not on Brad Tree Living. Well, that's what Sam said to me when I got here today.

He's like, hey, he saved his head. He'd get it done, and he did. And I was like, he reminds me of another GM. We've heard that before. Marner, Matthews, even Nylander on his first crack at a second contract, Tavares, we're always having the same conversation. Is it too much? You know, is it, where was the discount?

Like, this is no different than that. It's just the same pattern. And, yeah, maybe Lou's gone and, you know, there's a different general manager now from Dubas. But, you know, it's more on this is the way Brendan Shanahan has put his stamp on all these deals. Yeah, the two things I'll quibble with there are that the willie contract ended up looking great right like his last contract ended up looking great he made

he's making 6.9 this year to score 100 points you know so that one ended up looking like a bargain so it's not all that these contracts have been like they don't ever said they could but at the time at the time sure they're they're consistent with the same narrative, all of them. The one thing that's not consistent is that Matthews' deals have come quickly, without much discussion, and early. If you sign that Matthews contract he signed this summer, this next summer, after he scores 70 goals this year,

or whatever it's going to be, it's not 13-2-5. The problem with so many of these deals is how long they waited. They should assign Mitch earlier. They should assign Willie earlier. If they were going to keep these guys and it was that important, they should assign them earlier. Yes. Yeah.

Yes. The early signings have been good. That's the only thing that's made sense in the last 35 minutes. They just should have done all of this earlier. Yes. If you're so set on keeping them, then keep them. Can I say, though, as just a quick aside from all of this, I want to give kudos to Morgan Riley for signing his contract the way he did.

Signed it. Dude, Morgan Riley is like the antithesis to this other, the core four forwards. I feel like everyone gets those. All these Leafs always take them to the woodshed and no one ever mentions. Morgan's like making seven, five, playing 25 minutes a night.

I haven't taken a penalty yet. Like I am the play against every good player. I make seven and a half million dollars for eight years. I love being a Leaf and no one ever mentions it. And all we want people to do is take a hometown discount. And he did it. And no one ever gives him credit for it. Everyone yells about the core.

And Morgan's just like, do I exist? Remember the All or Nothing series? He wasn't in any of the episodes. He is so important to them and he makes $7.5 million. Yeah, it's been 24 and a half minutes per game this year. I wanted to mention

that before we go to break. Okay, let's go to break because there's still plenty of meat to chew off the bone here. They just won three in a row in California and they've looked better than they have all year. All right, we're going to take a quick break. More Willie Nylander conversation and perhaps maybe a deeper dive in what it might mean to Mitch Marner. Just note at the top of the hour, we'll have Elliott Friedman jump on board.

And then the man of the hour, Willie Nylander, will join us at 5.30 Eastern. This is real Kipper and Boren. Don't go away. Teeing up the biggest games of the night, it's the Fan Pre-Game with Ailish Forfar and Justin Cuthbert. Weekdays at 6 p.m. on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590 The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee.

You've been under a rock. Willie Nylander just signed a long-term deal. Eight years, $92 million. You had mentioned Mitch Marner earlier. We get to do it all over again, guys. Hate it. Hate it. Is this signing today moving Willie and Matthews as a one-two punch and kind of leaving Marner a little bit on the outside,

looking in, in terms of where his long-term future lies? I personally would... So, love and respect for John Tavares. I think he's an awesome player, but you'd sure love to keep the three young guys who do get the most points. That's a hell of an idea by you. So, yeah, I guess I'm a little hesitant to be like, if you get rid of him, you're kind of every other team in the league who has a couple of an idea you know so yeah i guess i'm a little hesitant to be like if you get rid

of him you're kind of every other team in the league who has a couple of good players every team in the league has a couple of good players the leafs advantage they got more than that so i would like to see them hang on to mitch marner if they can i think it comes down to playoffs like you said if they don't succeed there's gonna be a lot of noise to do something different it's almost as if you're you know damned if you do damned if you don't if he has if mitch has a lights it up lights it up on smith okay okay i'll take that yeah no problem in a loss though and kiss him goodbye points and they lose in the seventh.

And kiss him goodbye and thank him for the amazing playoff run. Like we did with Kawhi. I think the city would be happy. So last week we had briefly had a discussion on Connor McDavid and Leon Drysaddle and where you think that may go in the next two years for the Edmonton Oilers. And I told you. God, Leon loved this contract.

Yeah, Leon. No, there's a lot of guys out there that love Willie's contract today. And one of them is in Pittsburgh with Kyle Dubas and Jake Gensel. Gensel. I think Sam Reinhardt liked it too. Sam Reinhardt liked it. Mikko Rantanen liked it oh is he up in a couple years oh i think it could be earlier than oh really take a quick look i think if you're

rent and you have the case to make that you're more valuable right but yes this year next. But he's eligible to sign this year like Mitch Marner. Yeah, correct. So Mitch is already at $10.9, essentially $11 million. Like where is even the wiggle room to go moving forward if he doesn't have a good finish or the team doesn't have a good finish or if the team does have a good finish? Where those talks go as early as july 1st for me like borny said i'm just i'm signing them i'm keeping them right like i'm just i'm gonna keep them next year's gonna be really tough on the books like it really is and i mentioned in our first block that it's it's

unavoidable how much of a disaster next year's cap situation is. But at the same time, you're not going to ever get back, again, another point from me, you're not going to get back what you want from Marner. No. You're not going to be like, oh, yeah, we've restocked the cupboards and got our number one D man and got, like, it's not going to be like that. No.

So I think he's, I kind of want to keep them all. They're good. I collect all four. Good. If the one thing that we can say that hasn't played well for the Leafs is getting ahead. So here we are today. Let's play general manager for the day.

Okay. How do we get ahead now on Mitch Marner? You have to wait until July 1st, right? You can't sign anything until July 1st. They're talking. I think now they're talking oh yeah how could you not be you've got it come on guys they see each other those four performers so there's some nice conversations going on am i am i here to suggest to you that hard numbers have been exchanged or negotiations are going on no but there are discussions i either together or internally on what do we do here moving forward so if you were jb brad tree living how do you get ahead of it

july 1st for mitch martin well you know i imagine you start by saying what is it you're looking for where are you you You establish that. And if we know anything from the last negotiations, they're looking for 20 million. But, you know, I presume you just say, where do you think you are in this landscape of wingers? And you start to say, you know, are you looking to be here the length of the term? You say, are you better than Willie Nylander? Let's look at the stats this year.

You weren't. Okay. We're going to pay you less than Nylander. And they say, okay, let's look at historically. I'm way better than willie kneelander let's look at the stats this year you weren't okay uh we're gonna pay you less than kneelander they say okay let's look at historically i'm way better than willie and then you end up giving him 12.25 and times eight and call it a day yeah how'd i do i have no rebuttal that sounds exactly like how it's gonna go i oh i'm sure they're good i consider 12-2 over eight sure they're gonna you give him a hometown discount, aren't you? For sure. Good hometown boy.

Is 12-2 over 8, Sammy, a discount for you? No. But I think one thing's very clear here. There's no discounts. There's no giving it back. So I think if you can kind of learn to live with that fact, which is a hard one to get over, then I guess you'll be okay. You're lagging the juice.

I guess I do, but I don't know. Where would you tell us how to get it done? You're the one who knows stuff. We don't know stuff. No, no, no, no. I think... Okay, let's play hindsight here. Okay.

Season hasn't started. Back to Willie Nylander. In hindsight, if the Leafs would have tried to get him done for 10-5 times 8 at that time, would you have said the Leafs overpaid or right about right? Or what? That sounds like the window where we would have said, seems like a bit much, but yeah, it's good. i feel like that's how i would have felt about it or is the new age now to come out with a

flat number and just say match it or or we walk now that's the other thing that you have to understand is that you know there's there's the agent side. There's a player association side. There's a market that they may think you're in. But where are you emotionally as an individual to have the guts to turn around and say, 80 is no good, but I'll take 92. Like there's a lot of guys that'll go i'll just take the 80 yeah i'll take the 80 take the 80 i'm the 80 guy take the 80 90 92 yeah big 80 guy no difference no difference no a lot of money a lot of i'm rich now now you know i don't want to deal with this i do think sorry sam no go ahead with with m, it would be important to say, you know, we're doing this this summer.

Because if you say you're not going to sign for whatever we think is fair value for you, we need to know if we have to trade you or not. And we're going to get a lot more value out of you if we can trade a full season of you. So we're going to do this going into the year. And we'll have the playoffs to go off. And we'll say, let's figure it out, or we're going to have to do this going into the year and we'll have the playoffs to go off and we'll say let's figure it

out or we're gonna have to do something different because i'm sure the marner camp will say they're happy to walk i'm sure i'm like i mean i'm we're getting a million texts today people are horned out the text people got thoughts and it's just like the thing that keeps coming up you can't win you can't win with these guys and it's like okay that's very fair that's like they haven't won anything they've won one playoff round but like if you if you try to win, you can't win with these guys. And it's like, okay, that's very fair. That's like they haven't won anything. They've won one playoff round. But like, if you trade... They didn't win with Ovechkin either, right?

But no, but like, I'm asking this, and I don't even know if I believe it, but like, are you better if you trade the good players? Are you more likely to win without the really good players? This is what getting spoiled is. I don't know. You just think your players can sleepwalk to 100 points every year.

It's not that easy. But they've just... If they had just won two rounds during this time or three rounds total, like the perception would be so different. It's just, can you win? Can you win? It's always through this lens, which sucks for Leaf fans because these guys are excellent. And I'm part of this.

They're excellent players. And they're all, like, really good. But they get painted in the can you win with them the players now know that you can you can be Austin and Mitch who are on

franchise historic paces to be talked about as the greatest Toronto Maple Leafs in any generation. That's how good they are. But they got that. Charles Barkley couldn't win.

Couldn't win. And the older they get, the more it's going to weigh on them. And so people feel differently about going back to the well with the same guys i am of the you know knowing how i changed as a player as i got older and my mental state change and whatever obviously i'm not a great example here but i just know that i got better and i got tougher and i got you know whatever i'd hate to be like well they haven't won so at 27 we're going to trade them all. If the odds of you watching them lift the cup for another team at that point are pretty good.

If you were going to do it two or three years ago, you were either going to give up on these guys or you're going to see it through. Yeah. Because like you said, 27, I don't know. I'm not the biggest expert.

It seems like a good time for hockey players. You know, like, you know what I think it was at the Oklahoma city that had Dur had durant westbrook harden abaca abaca and they were like can't win with these guys or whatever and then they all went out and lit it up everywhere else and it's like what if you just hang on and let these guys see it through i'm on which is brendan shanahan's theory i'm sneak i've gone back and forth so much on the run it back thing yeah but like i'm sneaky back i'm back a little bit yeah not not even because of this year like i just they look exactly the same as every other year but the more i start to zoom out it's like

you know what's what's the alternative yeah worse players like grittier players i guess like guys who oh a star who fights and hits like well who's the guy like yeah could get worse i almost certainly would that's what i mean so i don't know i've not like i'm having an epiphany on air here but it just at some point you say you can't win with these guys that's just it even whether you're talking about firing a coach or trading a player it's like are you sure are you sure it's going to get better that's all these goalie conversations we've had for the last month it's like at least we're fine with that jake allen martin jones is the best i kills me we haven't really talked currently sake uh we have 90 seconds

i'd just like to say that martin jones i fully believe i believe in jones and they should keep him as a part of their tandem prior to all right i mean that i I'm in. Prior to allowing... Oh, come on. It's old. Way too early for that. Sold on Martin Jones. Prior to allowing the 3-1 goal against San Jose, Martin Jones had made 99 straight saves at 5-on-5. You know, this guy, Kip... If the playoffs were to start tomorrow,

you'd be okay with Martin Jones? As my backup, assuming Joseph Wall's very good. But, like, I don't think he's any, I don't think Samsonov's going to be better or has a higher ceiling. I don't. Jones, I was looking at him today, I'm like okay, he's 6'5", he's the same age as Markstrom, Talbot, Bavrovsky, he's not a thousand.

He's been in bad places when his numbers have been bad. I don't know. Samsonov had a good week. Did he? That's what that's what Tree said. What does that mean? Hopefully he has a good week at Magnetagorse. The guys who are trying to shoot the puck at his pads hit his pads. All right. Just like that, our first hour is done.

But we still got plenty more coming up next hour. Elliot Friedman will join us top of the hour. And then the man we've been talking about, Willie Nylander, Toronto Maple Leaf forward, will join us at 5.30 Eastern. Stick around. Plenty more on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Don't go away. We'll be right back.