Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Nylander Not Getting Cheaper

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start by straying off hockey for a look into the Shohei Ohtani sweepstakes and Jon Rahm's lucrative move to LIV. Then, back to the regularly scheduled Leafs program - Sammy voices his Hyman regrets, the price on Nylander not going down despite his slump and if Keefe should be held responsible for sloppy team line changes. Later, Senators' analyst Jason York (30:31) tees up tonight's Sens/Leafs game, Ottawa feeling hot off a win over the Rangers, what it'll take to get back into the playoff race and why the Jacques Martin hiring was necessary.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome aboard to the real kipper and born show still at it we promise we'll talk hockey in between sam's updates on otani but we're glad you're aboard wherever you're watching and listening sports at 590 sports at 360 sports at plus from four to six eastern and you can always download us wherever you get your pod if you can't catch us live and in person and give us a text if you want we'll get them uh in today tomorrow off the rails friday right around the corner but do we start on sammy just a a quick update uh just a word of uh advice to all of you if anything was to break here at the rogers campus on uh blue jay news we will be uh

ejected through the roof third and long in the cfl or fourth and long in the nfl i think there is probably phone calls and conversations going up like right above us yeah like right over there somewhere so i i've got some thoughts on this okay okay i don't want i hope shohei's not listening to this oh but i'm sure he is he's a big hockey guy a huge hockey um i just worry because i am very impressed with how all in the toronto blue jays have been in this and how long down for a non-traditional baseball market for them to be this far down the road and in the fight this long to me is incredibly impressive okay and i don't want the usual, oh, the Jays came second place, like that stuff.

I've been as snarky about that as possible. Yeah, I started the same way. But I've been snarky about that. But I am giving them full, 100% credit for still being in this fight and still not having an announcement that he signed with the

Angels or the Dodgers. it's really impressive but okay all right but the but is on the shohei side because i think myself and i'm not sure how a lot of jays fans are feeling you can text me if you want i am very concerned about what the rest of this off season is going to look like for the Toronto Blue Jays after they've rightfully poured so much time and effort into trying to land Shohei Ohtani. And I do think that he will be rather hated here if he doesn't sign. Like, I think there will be a real sort of...

Because he's... He has handcuffed them. He's holding their off... And let Soto go to the Yankees. He's holding their offseason... He's holding their off. And let Soto go to the Yankees. He's holding their offseason hostage a little bit here, boys. I'm not a guy that followed him daily, but I don't think he's the type of personality that you can hang a hatred on.

Oh, I'll show you how. No, buddy. 100%. Yes, he's going to do it. He's already said he's going to do it. I'm telling you right now. He has told me if he's gonna do it he's already said i'm telling you right now if he doesn't told me if he doesn't do it now he's gonna hate him he will be one of my least favorite athletes of all time because he's completely like he's just led us down this road and i've seen uh the japanese correspondent his former blue jay munanori kawasaki and he's i'm seeing pictures of him by the way i'm seeing pictures of him of with uh you say kikuchi when he was a jay it's like we're getting all the the little breadcrumbs and you know uh passing saying

he's really impressed with the jays and they're all saying this stuff and if he just signs with the dodgers hate but i love immediate hate because if he's in sammy's like oh you'll be my girlfriend like oh i'm doe eyes immediately but i'm telling you and i don't know if a lot of jays fans feel the same way as me. It's going too far for you. It's flipping a little bit here. A decision's got to be made at some point. Well, we get the sense.

Other people have to go along here. Other teams have to make decisions. It's like, you have to sign guys. You need to field a roster. The sense is it will happen this weekend. I hope. By the end of the weekend, he'll make a decision. Now, when I first heard the news and they warned us or started to warn us,

I thought it was just a play for the agent. But there is a sense out there now that the Jays have put together such a serious offer that it may be one that you can't refuse. And it may have blown everything out of the water. Are you reporting this, Kipper? Because you can't report it because in case old Shohei hears,

he'll be like, you can't leak. Sometimes I pull an Elliott and I hide behind a plant, especially in this building. So they're preparing the big enchilada for him. It's the big one. It would take negotiations to another level, I think, in the world of buying a player.

Wow. Someone told me under this roof they believe that he it would be like buying a company can i tell you the most insane thing about this this is the same money they're gonna give john rom to go play like a few golf tournaments in the live yeah what's he getting 600 million they're gonna give him to join live and presumably he's tied to i don't know a couple years to play in their events or whatever but but okay. Longley mentioned it in the Toronto Sun yesterday that like, or maybe

it was the other, I don't know. The Otani watch has been so many days, I can't remember what day it was, but that the offer, he's like, oh, you know, mentioned the B word, getting up near the B word Canadian. Like, you know, US dollars, yeah, it's getting up. 600 to not far off, you know, or 900. So get, I just, make the decision.

They recently bought another company for, what, $25 billion? Yeah, we just picked up Shaw. Good for us. So what's one? Make the decision. Stop holding everybody's off-season hostage, okay? That's my only thing, Shohei. And I know you're not watching, but, like, we want to love you.

Listen. We want to love you. I saw a picture of him in a ducks jersey he's he's worn an nhl kit before but ducks that's in like at the anaheim close to la and i don't want to leave this afternoon he's gonna ask somebody who is this sammy this who's telling me who is this to hurry up yeah is this someone i should know. I will love you more than anything, Shohei. You will be my most favorite athlete. I will love you. In the meantime, 13 games on tap, six of the seven Canadian teams in action,

including the Battle of Ontario. Finally, we've got a game for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Good match tonight, too. Yeah. Sends are fast. Leafs are rested. I expect pace tonight. I really do.

I'm excited about tonight's game. You want another McKee's gripe? I'm sorry that I'm griping today. Yeah. This is like family guy here. What grinds your gears? I watched the Oilers last night. You know what really grinds my gears? There you go.

You know, we talk about a lot of the mistakes and misreads that kyle dubas made while he was here and he made a lot of good moves while he was here and he made a lot like he did a lot of good things but there's any general manager is going to have some mistakes yeah i think at the top of the list the mistakes he made was letting zach hyman go wow yeah there's a few. But Zach Hyman to me. That's a big one for sure. He is unbelievable. His 360 out of the corner last night. Spins off a check and takes it where?

And stuffs it. To the house. Stuffs it. Absolutely stuffs it. He looked like an NBA power center. Yeah. So he had his career high with the leafs was 41 points in 71 games great four checker great pk guy but then he goes to edmonton 27 goals his first year there

36 goals last year this year he's on pace for 55 he's got 15 goals in 22 games his pace right now is 55 41 96 points but i know he's not going to get that. It was never with me about the point production with him. It was just you guys watched him play here. He stopped the opposing forecheck every time he was down the ice. And there was just no one on the team that played the way he did. He was such an outlier in terms of heart and passion and just general dog in him, I guess you would say. And it's just such a huge mistake to let him go.

And the contract is a 10 out of 10 steal. He has four and a half years left and he's 31 years old. Yeah, but for what the Leafs are trying to do and what the Oilers are trying to do at the same time, you're not worried about the last years. You're getting the, anyways, you're getting the prime years, the most important time. The biggest issue with Kyle back then and other examples,

and maybe we're seeing, even though Kyle's gone, maybe the Leafs are making another mistake here, is just not getting ahead of it fast enough. And the moment that you knew that maybe Babcock had Hyman up on a top line or a top six line, that his game was going to another level. And you needed to get ahead of his UFA. Yeah. And even if you thought at the time that you were going to spend a half a million more than you would have liked to,

it would have still been a better alternative than letting him walk or get to that place where he can go somewhere else. And I've told you this. I'm a firm believer when you talk about these type of players that have have shown enough that the price of poker doesn't go down yeah and the same thing's gonna happen to willie and i don't know if you've kind of seen the temperatures you sent me an article uh which we all found very interesting anthony petrilli yeah but yet another one what is just clear on it is that you take a little small sample of his last five games and what does he have two points yeah now it's like hey remember everybody said

he was like 11 or 12 be careful now because you're not sure what you're getting. And now there's some narrative out there on just five games. Well, I mean, the pace he was on was so out of line with everything else he had done in his career at age 28. So I think it's reasonable to look at that early stretch of play and say, you know, he's not suddenly going to be 110 points, you know,

top five score in the NHL. This sort of takes him back to, you know, more like more in line with where we thought he might be in Petrilli's piece. He compared his contract, uh, like, uh,

Philip Forsberg and Johnny Gaudreau guys in the $9 million range, you know, or Panarin or yeah or Pasternak. It depends if you're the age of the team. That was two weeks ago. Coming out of Sweden, everybody was like, this guy's a top 10 player, and he is now in that conversation. But can you always argue from this side of it?

Do you not see the other side of it? Do you not see the contracts that he's equal with? I'd be scared to death right now if I was the Leafs. Because you don't know what it's going to take. And you don't know. And you'd be scared that he is more Forsberg than he is Panarin. For sure. And like his career to this date, he's never been more than a point per game guy.

You know, for you to say that he's. But he's. But the majority of this season puts him in the top 10. It's not Forsberg. The majority of this season was 17 hockey games. He's got 500 in his career.

So do you think that he is a top 10 player in the NHL? Or do you think he's closer to these guys who are... I'd be scared to death to go 11 or 12 million dollars. But... For sure. I don't know how you could

if but you can still give them that it's not two days you can still you still might have to give them that yeah even though you think the comparables would have them in that second tier yeah well and i'm sure well the thing that stuck out to me about this piece and it's like just seeing it laid out in front of me was the lewis gross aspect of this where it's like you think oh maybe they're just gonna get it done the number's gonna get met but it's like maybe that's not what they're looking for and that's not what the advice is and it's like that part of it to me is what jumped out that maybe they just want to go to ufa well if you're maybe they want to see like it's not like if they're if they're gonna over overpay you, you can sign,

but otherwise, like, a lot of Louis Gross' clients tend to make it to UFA. Which I thought was, like, that, just seeing them, like, listed out there, like, you know,

Brandon Saad, Krug, Dumoulin, Nolichari, Conor, I know these guys aren't in the same class, but a lot of them just go instead of signing with their old team. Anyways.

But they've been down this path before. Obviously, he wasn't a UFA. He was a restricted free agent, but it still cost two months of the season, two and a half months. So they know they're dealing with an agent that has a comfort zone to go right to the very end. Yeah.

And a player player does too. Do they wait for a Chicago Blackhawk team just to say to the Leafs, you want to match it? Because this is where we're at. Is that where it's going to head? Well, sure. And, you know, the scary part, you know, again mentioned in this piece, is just that if you lose Willie Ny kneelander like let's say you're

like okay we value the cap space or we were going to trade him at the deadline whatever if you don't have willie kneelander on your roster and then it's mitch marner's turn for negotiations you're screwed because you can't lose them both so all of a sudden you know mitch has you up against the wall at that point where you're saying we gotta got to keep one of our elite wingers, our game breakers, our guy who plays the most minutes. You know, and so that changes things where. So do you pick one now, you pick one later, or you try to find a way to get them both?

You make a decision. You either pick one, if that's whatever, or you sign Willie for the extra $500 that he's looking for. Do you see any world at all where they think about moving him in March? Willie? Yes. Because I don't. The only reason I would say yes is because Tree Living has made it clear

he doesn't want to do the good row thing again where he just gets, I can't do anything and the guys leave. Where... It's remarkable how similar the situation is. To think about, like, to have a guy that went from one situation to come into another situation with the same... Like, a really elite player that's on the last year with, like... Is it... They have the same agent?

I think so. Lewis Gross. Lewis Gross. So it's like... I can't think of many situations... It feels like he's having Ground last year with like is it they have the same agent i think so lewis gross lewis gross so it's like same i can't think of many cities like i feels like he's having groundhog day like deja vu here and i think the both guys probably want to go to ufa and so it's like overpay me or i'll just go to ufa and you're in a tough spot at that point you know one of the pieces of advice that i heard doobie say a lot and we've heard in this market a lot was if you have time use it that was like a lou lamorello staple that was passed down to kyle and it it has burned them it has not been a beneficial and talk about hyman you know all these guys everything's great that that theory has been proven worth nothing i think what will also play a i think the most important part in all of this is where are they as a team between

now and the trade deadline have they as is stepped up to now be thought of as a as a real contending team or are they going to be mid and if in fact they kind of falter a little bit in January and February and by chance there is question marks whether or not they could even be a thought that they could miss the playoffs, would that change your outlook on let's do something on the pot or get off of it? I had a thought today where I was like, you know, if they were, I may have been there when I had this thought.

Where's the Vasilevsky drop when you need it? If they're skimming along and we are, you know, they're 500 between now and for the next couple months or whatever. You talk about the choice between willie or mitch you know what would happen if you decided we're just going to move both where you know both these negotiations oh my god the cost this guy you're just i'm saying they make a combined 18 million dollars you could get a massive haul mitch marner still has another year you get two playoff runs those deals aren't out there they're not out there yeah those are but

i'm saying yeah whatever the deal may be be it a first a prospect you know whatever it would be there'd be it's not there there wouldn't be nothing if you put mitch marner out there the value of the cap space when everyone's cap strapped you know there's a lot of big ufas coming up i wonder how if you wanted to remake the look of the team and just said oh you're talking about blowing everything up but i don't think it makes you're not giving up you are blowing everything up no doubt about it you are not doing a reno you're doing a blow down and rebate but you still have a lot of money to build a nice home with i feel like and i think the thing that's lost in all this is that this is a different

general manager that may have a different idea of what a hockey team we all got so used to the core four and kyle duas being tied to that but i like just because that's there does it mean you have to keep going with it but you're also suggesting too that you know brad's been hired to completely take control. And that's not, that's Brendan Shanahan now 10 years who has been behind the core four that you could win with these guys. And that's why we invested all this money in. And Brad came in and said to Brendan Shanahan, let's blow this thing up tomorrow like you just alluded to

what's brendan gonna say you think brendan gets another chance to be the gm no does brendan get another chance to rebuild it we do not go back to the board at ml uh mlse and say hey i know it didn't work out for the first 10 years but give me another three or four and we have to go that plan i've sold you what if we did the opposite so that's that's why i believe that this is not this would never go that would never go that way but if if in fact it looks like the the present roster as is is just backstroking here for the next 20 or 30 games something's got to give to say you really want to go into the potential first round like this yeah you know it's so funny too as we talk about how this is not the same gm and i understand that he's not going to uh maybe he's not going to tear down

the house and rebuild it but the names you hear associated with the team are so different you know today was uh rasmus ristalinen is that right ristalinen different. Today was Rasmus Ristolainen. Is that right? Ristolainen? Yes. I love Rasmus. Who at one time was seen as a top shutdown, little bit of offense, defenseman, top 10 draft pick.

Yeah. Definitely some pedigree there with him. Real strong pedigree. That might be where it ends. He's probably been in the league, what, 10, 11 years? That long? Yes. Wow.

He's not old by any stretch. He's making five plus. 29. 5.1. 29 years old. Shoots right. 6'4". Big, strong guy. Like, I understand why there would be interest in this guy.

Give me his career plus minus. It's not good. It doesn't add it up on HockeyDB, but I'll say some of the standout years. Minus 41 one year. I can see the intrigue in a guy like that for the Leafs. Mid. I'm baffled by that.

I don't think I want that at all. Just an underachiever that you might be able to buy cheap. He's got a contract until 2027. I know, but that's where you get the Philadelphia Flyers now to eat. What is he at, 5-1? $5.1 million. He's not very good. He hasn't been very good.

I know he's having a good year. He is having a good season. No, no, no, no, no. He just started. He's not very good. No, you know, he hasn't been very good. I know he's having a good year. He is having a good season. No, no, no, no, no. He just started. He missed training camp. He missed the month of November. This guy's behind the eight ball. I think he's only played five games.

Yeah, the games he's played, people have liked. That's all I know. Yeah. Yeah, it's... But I'll tell you one thing I do not like. How many playoff games has he played? Zero. So zero playoff games. he played? Zero. Zero playoff games.

He's a career. His plus minus career is minus 175. Yeah. That's. Yeah. Is that a record? No. Has anyone been more minus career?

Minus 175. If Brad Tree Living can steal this guy, he might be. Yeah. Okay. For 50. Yeah. Okay. Like for 50%. Yeah. Okay. And all of a sudden, yeah, he costs you 2.5.

He's on your third pair. 2.5. I can live. Down. 50? Maybe how about 60? What's the most you can retain? That is the most.

50 is the most. 50 million? Yeah. Double retention? There you go. But he's. Yeah. Come on.

Do the Leafs need another guy that's with zero playoff experience? This is my point, though, is that Tree Living, all the names he brought in this offseason, Klingberg was almost a Norris name, and Max Domi's a big name with his father and his, you know, London Knights and all that. Reeves is a big name. Like, these names seem appealing to Tree Living.

Which was the opposite of, yeah. Dubas was Lubushkin and Kampf. And guys in Reeves. Guys that he would get them, them and you're like where has he been playing yeah you know it's a different type of guy they're after even bunting yeah well they would have known him from junior but we didn't hear in toronto was like who's that yeah he's in arizona any decent clips out of uh sheldon i was just looking at the worst plus minus. I can only quickly look up the worst single season. Bill Mickelson

dash 82. Dash 82? With the 74-75 Washington Capitals. There you go. I think one worth playing would be the Bob Stewart.

We have a minus 257 Bob Stewart all time is what I'm getting in my ear. That's impressive. So Risto is not that far off. He's tracking. The one about Wall, he got quite asked about if he's worried about Wall's workload. And he kind of talked about the goaltending situation and that. So I think that may be worth playing before we break and get to

Yorkie. So we want to play clip number five there on Joe Wohl. Okay. What's going on? Finding the Joe Wohl clip. By the way, so while they're looking for that, I read Joshua Cloak's article on Joseph Wohl and his... He's an interesting guy you guys have told me that all goalies are weird

and my contention is not that wool is weird it's that he's an interesting unique kind of different guy he apparently has bought like a 7 000 piece lego set he, you know, more so than driving excited about a Jaguar. He's excited about Lego. He's into, he found out that the Ryan O'Reilly trade happened for the Leafs last year when he got to the room and saw O'Reilly's number on the board. Yeah. I remember that.

Like he is a quite a different guy. And I think that's fascinating and not your usual type of goalie. Weird is my point. All right. Derek Brandale, our trusted button pusher upstairs has found the clip. Just finished a stretch of seven games in 25 days as a team, so I'm not worried right now about anybody being burnt out.

That's for sure. But as I mentioned with us getting busier, you're going to need two goaltenders for sure. And, you know, obviously it's unfortunate that Samsonoff has been ill the last week or so and has fought that bug and hasn't been able to skate or get much done on practice days. Felt he was making good progress with his time in practices and such while Wall was playing before he was sick.

But the last week has been real tough on him and he's certainly lost time in the net so it's important we build him back up because we're going to we're going to need him and then in the meantime you know having three guys on the roster the jones here um you know just shows the depth that we have all right he's not nervous yet yeah yeah they got three guys i am curious if we'll see a martin jones run of play at any time well i mean it seems like samson's pretty sick they got a back-to-back monday tuesday would he be ready to rock for one of those they got like nine games right up until christmas i think like it's it's busy. Yeah.

So I'll get you to play the first clip, Derek, because first of all, he was asked about his little outburst in practice, and he kind of responded to that, but then talked about how excited to play. So if we play the clip one, he talks about how much they're going to play. It was just like any other practice. I don't know what you guys are talking about, but in terms of the game itself, we're excited to play. It's a busy stretch here for us.

We played seven games in the last 25 days, and now we're going to go play six in the next 10 days. So it's more of what we're all used to in terms of the NHL. So the guys are excited about it, and good chance to start out on the road here and, you know, want to build on the game we played against Boston the other night. So you can tell now that he's really wily on what I want to put out there and what I want to deal with.

And he could have turned around easily and said, yeah, I did not like what i saw in practice and i addressed it and now if they go lay an egg tonight there's still going to be a story but it's not an accumulated story on linking it directly to his quotes off practice so he's he can he snuffs that storyline out laying the groundwork he also is kind of out in front of it if they lay an egg today or he can go you know i was on it i yelled at him you know at this point it's up to the players i you know i was there wow saw it coming you can't play two sides of it but i think i don't know in this market you can just tell now he's a lot more

wily on what he wants out there and what the the storyline is and what he knows that certain people can run with and he's just he wanted nothing to do with that is my point right at least it is funny right like a coach yelling in practice is like if you have to say what does an nhl coach do like what their role is like that's one of the five things they do scream at the guys yell at the guys in practice and if you're in like 28 other markets that's just a part of coaching but here it's like i mean good segue into my article today at the in the toronto star on too many men on the ice. And they didn't have one last Saturday. But you go through the numbers, and they're like 8-22 games is like off the charts.

Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. Then you dig down a little further, and they were in the top 10 last year at 16. And then the year before, I think they led. And over the course of three years, no team has had more bench minors, too many men on the ice,

than your Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. Did you reach a conclusion? Forney doesn't care. You know, you can point the finger at the players for sure, but as far as the true accountability, there's only one general on the bench, and it's the head coach. And the buck's got to stop there.

Yeah. I mean, you know, we have Sam's laugh because I agree, and it's totally noteworthy. I don't have a solution for it. They should stop doing that. No, no. Absolutely. And I've got some good ideas.

Pay attention. And you know what? I did put Adam Oates in the article today as well. He had some good insight on that. He actually had a lot of practice, right? We got a lot of feedback. I don't know about you guys, but I got a ton of feedback on Adam Oates' interview

on our show yesterday. And if you didn't catch it, please download on a show yesterday. If you didn't catch it, please download on a podcast yesterday's show. Was it two days ago? I don't know. It was true living yesterday in Gordo. Oh, yeah. Two days.

You'll find it. Wherever you just look up Adam Oates. It's some interesting stuff, but it's a reminder that listen, you can be in the best league in the world and you can still Adam Oates and it's some interesting stuff, but it's a reminder that, yeah, listen, you can be in the best league in the world and you could still have

trouble jumping off and on a bench. Yeah. Well, and it's almost like to like some of the elite guys have never had to really pay fine attention to some of that stuff. Just like, ah, what's it really matter.

So it obviously does matter. And, you know, in a league where, you know, Florida gets into playoffs by one point last year they lose a point along the way and they don't make it to the cup final so it is a it's a game of inches and that's just another important variable okay just like that

first period over on the real kipper and born show leaf edition so we're going to take a break and we're going to come back with jason y Good friend of the show. He'll help us tee up the battle of Ontario tonight. Toronto Maple Leafs, Ottawa Senators. We're just getting started here. Don't go away. Everything Raptors before and after the games. The Raptor Show with Will Liu. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

As mentioned before the break, Jason York's going to join us now, co-host of Coming in Hot Sense podcast. And they are with a big win over the New York Rangers. Welcome in, Yorkie. How are you, pal? I'm good, Kipper. How you doing?

How you doing, Barney? Good? Good. Yeah, we're looking forward to tonight's game based on the vibe and the temperature before Ottawa beat the New York Rangers and after has a lot to do with maybe how good they feel maybe playing against the Toronto Maple Leafs tonight. What did you see in that win over the New York Rangers

that we haven't necessarily seen out of Ottawa lately? Well, until those last two games, Kipper, the heat was cranked up pretty high in Ottawa. There was a lot of people not happy with how this team was playing. You remember the projections of this team. Most people picked Ottawa to be a playoff team, not to be sitting in last place in the East. But, you know, I thought they were real good against the Rangers,

who are arguably the best team in the league right now. They're just – they're not beating themselves anymore in the last two games. And the thing, to be honest with you, probably the biggest thing, and I always say this with teams, show me a good goalie, and I'll show you a good team. And the last two games, Ottawa's had excellent goaltending. Anton Forsberg played extremely well in both of those games. So he's making saves.

He's making saves he's not supposed to. And Ottawa's just playing a little bit tighter a little bit better defensively in their own zone and they've got three lines going now two fellows and that's a that's a big thing they're getting a little more depth scoring and uh tarasenko probably had his best game as an ottawa center he and drake batherson showed some pretty good chemistry in that rangers game so yeah goaltending depth scoring and just not beating themselves. So, you know, I've kind of been a Sens,

I don't want to say bandwagoner here, but I think they're better than their record has showed them to be. They've got a lot of talent. Those teams tend to sort it out. They're 10 and 10 right now, I think, but, you know, they haven't played a whole lot of games. Are they still coming? Like, am I crazy here?

Is this still a team that has a run in them and they're going to get up into that wildcard conversation? Well, Barney, we'll know that answer at the end of this month. They've got a ton of games coming up and a lot of tough ones. They're playing some legitimate top teams

coming up here in December. It's a tight, tight schedule. Well, you look, guys, looking at their games played, they've only played 20 games so far, fellas.. Well, you look, I was looking at their games played. They've only played 20 games so far fellows. And I think that's, I'm looking quickly. I think that's the least of the entire NHL. Cause they went over to Sweden. They, they missed a chunk of games. So now they're going to make them up in December and this is going to be

their season. They can't go and play 500 hockey or one game above 500 here in December. They've got to get on a run here. And I'm talking when five of your next seven or six of your next eight that's what it's going to take for ottawa to get back into the playoff race and the other thing too guys they made a little move i'm not sure i'm sure you guys have heard they've brought back after 20 years jacques martin is back uh who was just announced uh yesterday as a senior advisor So the heat was turned up, and now you've got somebody else now looking over the coach's shoulders, right?

Yeah. Now that you mention it, yeah. Was Michael J. Fox's DeLorean involved in this back to the future? Or was this? Kiffer, he was my coach over 20 years ago. Okay. That's how long we're going back, man. So, Yorkie, explain this to me.

Was this really for DJ Smith, or was it for the fans calling for a coaching change to calm the waters down for the Ottawa Senators? Where was Jacques Martin in this equation? That's a great question. Number one, I mentioned there was a lot of heat going on. A lot of people were calling for DJ's job, for the coaching staff. Right or wrong, there's been a ton of injuries. They haven't had good goaltending.

There's lots of reasons you could point for the poor start. I think the answer is a little ton of injuries. They haven't had good goaltending. There's lots of reasons you could point for the poor start. I think the answer is a little bit of both. I think it buys the organization. Because if you rewind the clock here, Michael Landlauer came in and took control of this team in the middle of training camp. That's tough. You don't get the summer to kind of put your stamp on the team and make some changes.

So we all know Pierre Dorian was let go. I don't think he would have been let go if not for that mishap with Vegas and having to give up the first-round pick. I think he would have finished the year. But because he came in so late and Steve Stahels was announced and Daniel Overson was announced, I just think he's slowly putting his stamp on the team. And, you know, one thing, I know some teams do this.

Like, I know Jacques Lemaire has been a senior advisor for some teams paul mclean so it's it's not uncommon fellas like we all know guys in the games that consult for teams and and do it so i just think i i hear this all the time when michael and laura speaks he goes he wants to give this team and the staff things they didn't have at their disposal for the last, whatever, five, six years under Eugene Melnick, because I'll be honest,

this team was, was run like an AHL team. If you go back to the, they're like, it was the smallest hockey op staff, staff in the entire NHL. They just, they didn't spend a lot of money off ice.

And I think this is just the start of what, what Michael Adler was going to do. Just give better resources for your guys to have success. Let me ask you just the start of what Michael Adler was going to do just give better resources for your guys to have success. Let me ask you just in terms of if Michael wants to slow down the process just a tad but it's slow enough that they

miss the playoffs is there any scenario where this fan base could still give the Ottawa Senators the benefit of the doubt of missing the playoffs yet again this season for the sake of what still might be coming down the road? Yeah, that's another good question because people, it's been a long time since this team's been in the playoffs.

I think the answer is yes, Kipper. I think it's yes because the loudest people is is always the people you know they make their voices loud it's not it's not necessarily always the majority but it is it is a pretty big uh percentage of the people in auto at least that i talked to i know and i talked to on a daily basis so i i think they could handle it but like i said i i we'll see what happens at the end of this month. We'll know the answer on what happens with this team after this month. One way or another, it's going to be a lot clearer.

But I do think the fans will be – it's not going to be pretty, but it is what it is. Because he took control of the team so long, he hasn't been going through this for six years like the fan base. This has been three months for Michael Landlauer and Steve Stahel it's it's gonna he's look at it this way kipper the worst thing they could probably do and we've all seen this before right fellas you go in and you put a band-aid solution on a hockey team and then you're hiring somebody else in the summer i just think when they do make a move if they are it's going to be something that lasts for a while. Yeah, and looking at this team, where do they need external help?

Let's say they have a good December Yorkie. Would Steyos be the guy making trades then and trying to patch holes? And where could they use bodies? I look at this decor. I know they're buying a Shabbat, but it looks pretty good to me. Is it up front?

I think it's depth. I think it's down the's depth i think it's down the middle i think it's down the middle guys and listen i'm we i like tim stutzel a lot as a player but you look at you look at his body of work so far in the nhl you know he's leading the league for forwards and ice time right now no he is at the top of the list for average ice time per game for forward he's a great player yeah like kip replay in the league like you don't you don't automatically step into the national hockey league and are a good two-way 200 foot player that takes time that takes time and then you look at their next center it's josh norris he's played a whopping i don't know it's about 175 games maybe of total NHL experience. And after that, you've got Ridley Gregg, who's a rookie.

Pinto coming. You got Pinto coming, but another guy. I just think people got a little bit ahead of themselves with predicting where the Senators are. I'm a firm believer you can't win consistently in this league if you're not deep and play a good 200 foot game down the middle and i just think that takes a takes a takes a little time to learn man you gotta wonder if they would have found a way to get pinto in signed this season maybe what kind of different look they would have had those first 20 games yeah for sure kipper it's a great point like that's why studsley was playing so much it's like you're the coach you're looking they would have had those first 20 games. For sure, Kipper. It's a great point.

That's why Stutzler was playing so much. It's like, you're the coach. You're looking down the bench. Well, get out there. Get out there. It's like, you're not flush with options. So, no, it's a great point, and I'm with you on that one, Kipper. How are the old dogs hanging in there for him?

Claude Giroux, has he looked like himself? I was going to include Tarasenko in that, but but mostly jeru how has his performance been this season jeru's been really good morning yeah like he's he's he's found the fountain of youth here in ottawa and i was i was wondering if could he double down on what he did last year 35 goals and like that was one of his best seasons in a long time but i would say he's arguably ottawa's best 200 foot forward he takes a lot of key draws like he's not he's not a primary penalty kill penalty killer but if there's a face-off he's taking it big draw he's taking it late in the game you need a draw he's taking it like he's just so smart guys plays the game the

right way doesn't cheat and uh he's he's been a really good sounding board for a Stutzler, for a Kachuk. He's just done a nice job of being a leader for those guys. Hey, Yorkie, we were just discussing a name for the Leafs because they're looking for defense. And Ristolainen's name, now presently long timer with the buffalo sabers now with the philadelphia flyers maybe one of the reasons why chuck fletcher doesn't have a job today is that five million dollar contract to him but um i think his worst season was minus 41 did you say that is correct sir yes and i'm not sure if that was with the windshield factor or not but it feels like

minus 82 how about you man like where was that plus minus you argue in your career sometimes can it get overvalued or maybe but kiffer if i was minus 40 i would have had to get on some ambience or something no way i was getting no way there's no way you can sleep at night when you're minus 40. I'm not a big believer in the plus minus, but when you're that bad, that's tough. Everybody always, plus minus doesn't matter. Yeah, it matters when you're minus 40 because everyone's looking at you, pointing the finger at you. So, yeah, I think my worst might have been, I don't know, minus 10, minus 15. But that's a tough pill to swallow when you're going to win chill on the minus 40s. Yikes.

Yeah. How about the guy that kind of can hang out to dry every once in a while with the worst line change ever, and then you step on, and then it's like it's in the net. Come on. Yeah. So, A, you brought up, you know, you know guys kipper you remember this bernie guys that were professional like i used to call them plus mongers if you're a defenseman you make

your breakout pass you're skating up the ice okay we're gonna stay on the ice uh we didn't score okay change yeah if you did score if you did score, run to the pile, start patting guys. And like back in the 90s, they didn't always get the stats right. So you'd have to go to the pile and then position your number so the press box could make sure they got you for the plus. Dude, that was junior hockey in a nutshell back, you know, 20 years ago or whatever. Yeah, just the even for assist, the refs, you'd go to the pile,

go, who had the assist? You always had some guy in your team that's throwing his number there. Yeah, just the even for assists, the refs, you go to the pile, go, who had the assists? You always had some guy in your team that's throwing his number there. 12, 12's in there. Right? Hey, Kipper, how about that forward that specializes on the back check and changing when he sees an outnumbered rush?

Right to the bench, just step up, step on the ice for the birdie. Thanks very much. Oh, man. For the birdie. Great way to just want to kill a teammate yeah right there not good for team morale so yorkie um can you handicap the atlantic for us a little bit um you know it doesn't seem the bruins may be not quite as good as last year where do you believe

in the red wings or the panthers maybe the best team what do you know what do you what are your thoughts in the Atlantic? At first, I didn't have Boston in when I was making my predictions. And I said, you know what, Jimmy Montgomery is just such a good coach. I am surprised how well they're doing. That is surprising. I watched Florida play live in Ottawa. They put the boots to Ottawa about two weeks ago.

And I was so impressed with how hard they play. And I'll go back to my point about being a 200-foot player down the middle of the ice. Sasha Barkov, to me, I know everybody says it, but the guy's still underrated. How he plays the game, he's big, he's heavy, he's skilled,

and he never cheats. That guy, to me, is a guy you win with and then i love i love sam bennett like he's just such a little pain and you know what back there plays hard plays heavy that whole team brodsky's been playing pretty good so far this year i i really like florida and uh and what they're doing so that that would be my team right now in the at 40. Hey, we're looking forward to the game tonight, man.

Uh, what do you think? Give us a prediction. Uh, I I'm, I'm to the, I've come to this point with the sense. I just spin a bottle. Cause I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know who's going to show up. They are playing better, but man, Matthews seems to really enjoy playing against Ottawa. Doesn't he? Like he just, what are the numbers there, Sammy? I got it right here in 30 games against the sins he has 23 goals

and 21 assists for 44 points 30 games i'll talk about a cookie monster right he's just oh his eyes just light up so i don't know ottawa's been playing ottawa's been playing good i know the leafs have been struggling with defensively as well How's the goaltending been overall for the Leafs, boys? Has it been up to speed? It's been the Joseph Wall show. Yeah? Yep. Yeah, Wall's been really good.

Samsonov hasn't quite found last year's form, so you'll be seeing Wall tonight. And is there a thought that Corposalo, he's not making six or seven million, Yorkie, but he's making four times 20 or over 20 million. Is there a thought that maybe we jumped the gun a little bit on this guy or not yet? Not yet. He was pretty good to start the season.

I'm a little concerned with the term of it, guys. It's a little long generally to go for a goaltender, but we'll see. Forsberg's been the better of the two lately, but Forsberg didn't have a great start. So it's, they're just looking for one guy right now to be consistent. Cause so far, neither one of them have been consistently good over a long span. So again, I think it's too early to say what,

if it was a bad deal or not, it's like I said, December is going to be very telling for this team and that, and that's going to be number one for the goaltenders. They got to start playing and entering those contracts. Great stuff. Yorkie. Thanks for joining us, man. We really appreciate it. Now go to the game fellows. Now go make your bed, eh? Go make your bed. That's Jason York, co-host of Coming In Hot Sense Podcast. Man, they got a schedule this month.

What are you going to say? You just make me laugh sometimes. Why? You're a funny guy. Make your bed. That's funny. We've got him on Zoom call for all of you not being able to watch our show. And I don't know.

Was he in a hotel room? I take it. I think so. Yeah. If he's not, I feel like we just judged him. But he's in his bedroom. I don't know. Maybe it was his bedroom. I don't know.

But it looked a little messy. That's all. The schedule for the Sens team this month, they got some tough teams in the division. They get the Leafs, then the Red Wings, the Hurricanes. They got the Dallas Stars, the Vegas Golden Knights, the Avalanche, the Penguins, the Leafs again, the Devils.

Whoa, really? They got teams coming up. You come out of the other side of that and you probably know. Yeah. And let's just give Yorkie a little bit of love for coming on our show. He is on vacation. Oh, he is? In Florida. Oh, okay.

Yeah, he's straight up in Fort Lauderdale. Yeah, he's in his hotel. What a guy. And his bed was messy. Did he text you and tell you that he was in Fort Lauderdale? No, he didn't. Oh, okay. Yeah.

Well, I mean, what a guy. So the other day I did this corporate event. The keeper of the cup was there, Phil Pritchard. Oh, yeah, your boy. Yeah. And he told me that my last year in junior, he had the privilege of presenting me with a Transamerica CHL plus minus player of the year.

Phil Pritchard gave you that? Yes. Didn't even have the white gloves yet. He wasn year. Phil Pritchard gave you that. Yes. Didn't even have the white gloves yet. He wasn't even Phil Pritchard yet. Prior to that, they didn't even keep track. So he said it was like maybe the worst nightmare trying to keep track of a CHL plus minus. Yeah. And I think I ended up with like plus 62 or something.

Yeah, yeah. It was a good number. Yeah, you score a lot of goals. You're on a good team. And it got me nothing. They don't have the plus minus. Yeah, you score a lot of goals. You're on a good team. That's pretty much the math. They don't have the plus minus. Oh, they did give me a watch. Phil did give me a watch that year. They don't have the plus

minuses on Hockey DB. Not the cumulative. No, for junior. The boys love their plus minuses. It's going to matter a lot more than it does. It used to matter a lot more than it does. It used to be a very big deal, right?

I think it's still a big deal to them. Yeah, you want to look good for sure. Oh, yeah. But even when you play with your buddies, like you come off early and the guy who scores like, oh, avoided the minus. Like it's always like a part of the thing. Love it. All right. Our thanks to york for joining us moment

um moments ago terrific stuff plus 55 in north bay who you oh was it yeah okay i don't know what it was thanks for the reminder here for us mean nothing right now but we will go to break and we'll continue on our national coverage including the edmonton Oilers. We talked about them needing a streak. They've got one going. And we've also got head coach of Carolina not too happy. Yes. And Rod Brindamore. Maybe the best on-bench interview in the history of the game.

We're going to play that when we come back.