Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Nylander's Demotion + Suspension Theory

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee begin the hour, touching on Craig Berube's decision to drop William Nylander to the third line alongside Dakota Joshua and Nicolas Roy for Wednesday's practice and the expectations for Willy and his linemates heading into their game against the San Jose Sharks. Then, they react to Bobby McMann's one-game suspension for high-sticking and the Maple Leafs being the most suspended team in the George Parros era. Later, Sportsnet's Luke Fox stops by (30:38) to chat about Ryan Reaves' return to Toronto, the fallout between Reaves and the organisation during last year's trade deadline, Sharks' report, what could have been the reasoning for the second and third line changes, and Henry Thrun's potential main roster debut. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

There we go. The Kippreos, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. The Real Kipper Endborn Show, Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo. It's our leaf hour edition of our program, wherever you're watching, wherever you're listening. Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. And, of course, you can download us at your convenience, Spotify. Apple Podcast and YouTube Toronto Maple Leafs

on the ice for practice ahead of their matchup with the sharks tomorrow at Scotia Bank Arena got something going right now they're rolling a little bit but that hasn't kept Craig Brewby from tweaking his lines

J.B. Yeah interesting day today. You got a line of Cowan Tavares Robertson and a line of Joshua a Juan Nylander. I don't know, boys. First impressions here.

I don't know? Typically, don't you think each line should have a, like a, I know when I'll use that line. Oh, we're in the offensive zone, defense's zone, we're down to goal. I know what that line's purpose is. I'm looking at those two lines going, I don't know, man.

What's their spot? What is the, what is the premise here? Of the lines? Yes. Only one thing. What? Send a message to Willie. Yeah.

Okay. That's it. That's it. 100%. I don't know. I also think get Willie going. Tavares and Cowan are not exactly on Fuego. I wonder if this is like, hey, do you need a couple guys to go get you the puck and four check?

What do we need for you here? Did head coach Craig Bruby answer? Yes. My question is our Kipper's clipper today, Sammy? Let me look at the clips that I put in here. You sure did. Clip two, please, Derek. Clip two.

Well, the Tavares, Kneelander, Cowan line is kind of falling off for me a bit, dry it up a little bit, so I made a switch there just to give him a different look. What's your sense of William right now? Four games without points pretty rare for him. You know, I think if I had to look at one, thing. I would say he's got to get involved more, engage more in the game. You know, work his way through it. And

you know, that's what I talked to him today about work your way through it. You know, all players go through it at some point, but I think if he just works his way through it, he'll get out of it quicker. Guys, I don't know what that means. I mean that's sincerely, not sarcasticly. I don't

work your way through it. What does that mean? I don't know. We'll get to that. I don't know right now. once now boys i'll get to that but just what do you think's going through willie's mind right now when he comes to the rink today and he finds out that his linemates are nickwa and dakota joshua i think it's just edm house music and slide whistles and i wonder what's going to be my youtube channel later i don't i don't think there's anything going on his head no i don't think Come on, please tell me he's like,

how am I going to make some magic here with these guys? Internally, of course. Is Nick Waugh and Dakota Joshua a massive step down from current John DeVarres and Easton Cowan? Perception-wise, yes. Yeah. I don't think necessarily performance-wise, but perception-wise, for sure.

And I think what... That's true. To about your point, Kippur, I think that's exactly what this movie is about, perception, as opposed to performance. I like what you're getting at, though. I think you're right. I think four games with no points. He's not been engaged, noticeable.

He's been whatever. Just say, all right, well, we're not just going to give you top six minutes. So when that perception is that you're one of you and Nick Gua and Dakota Joshua are two of them, it means that you are world class. Yeah. And you got like lunch meat for two. guys right meat potatoes guys yeah so you're asking willie to kind of be more like them you're certainly not asking Dakota joshua and nick why to be more like willie oh come on you don't think

those two guys look at willie and go ha ha it's our time to shine that could be a big mistake yeah because you've spent the first 20 games looking like you don't know which end is up and now you've got this game going on right now where you're in a comfort zone Nick Waugh and Joshua Dakota are in a bit of a comfort zone with what they are and where they're most successful

and now Willie comes along and where's the conversation? Hey Willie, yeah, we're going to let's just get it along the walls and muck it up and we'll just grind them. Yeah. And Willie's going to go what? And by the

which of those two guys are going to say that by that. Neither of those guys are saying. I don't care whether you say it or not. It's true. The most telling sentence uttered by an NHL player this year was Trent Frederick being asked about fighting and goes, I've only got one goal this year.

You know, they're not going to fight me or something like that. So what these guys think about points and scoring? What look are we going to get tomorrow night against San Jose from Nick Waugh, Dakota and Willie? What are we going to see?

a general disengagement and a lack of chemistry? I don't know. Maybe I'm completely off on this and they find lightning. You think Willie's going to grind it out? I'll tell you exactly what's going to happen. Those two guys are going to grind it out on the walls and Willie will still try to do Willie things. That's perfect.

That's the best case. I don't know if it works all the time though. No, I don't think it does or they do it. This is the best case is that those guys go grind it out and they get Willie Pucks and Willie goes. So on occasion, and I've compared Willie Neelander to Alex Kovalev, and I've played on the line with Alex Kovalev, and there's times when I'm like, okay, I'm going to go over there and help him out.

And while the play's going on, he goes from one, two hands on the stick to one so he could shoe, shoe me away on the ice. Can I tell you something? Should have fought him. There's a lot of low points, you know, you have over your career. getting shoot off by a line mate while the play's still going on to just get away from me.

Is that that really happened? Is not that flattering. So you think there's a possibility that Willie gives these guys the... I think you're going to see Dakota Joshua and Nick Waugh still continue to dump... They're going to dumps in

and they're going to just... They're going to grind it out. And it's going to be along the walls and there's going to be all of that and then there's going to be Willie kind of floating around and then Willie will do Willie things which is

single-handedly make a play. He can on his own create by himself. Doesn't need anybody like Alex Kovlov didn't need anybody. That's what I expect to see. Well if that happens I think that's the best case for

Willie because he creates some room for him and get him some pucks. That version of a line where those guys do those things and Willie does Willie things is okay. I just want to add to that. Nick Waugh, I think, has sneaky hands. He's a handy guy. He can head man a puck. He can get his head up.

He can make plays. But what does it do for the other line? Cowan, Tavares Robertson, which we're listing as the second line. You got nothing going out of two of the guys, and Robertson's coming out of the press box. What's going on? What do they?

We got no worries about that line? Yeah, well, did we leave training camp thinking that Robertson and Easton Cowan would be in your top six? I'm just looking at

Willie's Ice Time from the last two games 1931 against Tampa and 2048 against Montreal that included some overtime and then before that it was 1530, 1637, 1917 so he said two games there was really low like he's demoted

but like I think Willie knows he's getting 19 he's getting 19 like i just don't think this is like all of a sudden yeah maybe he'll give him a a wake-up call that he needs or whatever but ultimately i think he's pretty well he's checking his contract till 2098 like is that is it fair to say that this is just somewhat pointless i think there's a chance that that number can come down if tomorrow night so they're down they're down a goal and they're like let's let's throw out roberton over over tomorrow's down a goal. You're not making up all those minutes

when you're down a goal. I understand that he hasn't been great and it's been a long stretch here, but like this is so performative. This is so like, oh, you got it. You got it. Right? This is the whole accountability thing.

So you have to put the guy that's in the press box into the top six that you scratch because you weren't giving him original ice. I just don't think you can do nothing, Sam, when you're getting nothing. You can't just keep going. No matter how you play, you get to play. Like, at least it's an effort.

It's a performance. It's a performative act. And he'll still play... Yeah, I'm with J.B. I'm okay with it. Sure. I'm okay with it too, but I don't think it's changing. Right.

I just don't think it's going to change anything. That's it. I just, I'm interested to see what that looks like. Yeah. I am too. Two meat and potato guys and a world-class hockey player. Well, we're in this dilly of a pickle because Bobby McMahon got a one-game suspension for savagely clubbing.

An opponent. You're good on that? you called it I did call it I've been doing a lot of reflect He did Bjork Strand He called it for the wrong reasons He has recovered

A miracle of modern science He has recovered Unfortunately Dakota Murmiss Has not had the same luck Brube announcing today that he's out at least a month So I'm a little

I've spent the last 48 hours or so reflecting on my thoughts on this and I am very ashamed of myself and I would like to rescind everything I said and I think the least got host I love hearing that.

You know why? I think it takes a genuinely strong, confident person to change their mind. No, I think they got, the least got absolutely hosed. And I'm going to go back to, I got DMs today. This, I mean, the Leafs now. The Leafs now are the most suspended team since Peros entered Department of Player Safety. coincidence maybe I will say over that time

they have not exactly been a brawny physical team they have honestly god that's the first I've heard that and I'm blown away by it um this was courtesy least Reddit I think Jeff Fayette maybe put it out originally but I just got sent to me via least Reddit

this is an organization over the last 10 years where we've they've also been we've begged them to be more engaged in that type of behavior and I believe I saw since 17, 18, they're the least penalized, or the eighth least penalized team in the league. So they don't get penalties, but they get suspended.

So the eighth least penalized team in the league leads the league since Peros tenure in suspensions. The least penalized teams over this time, Carolina, Columbus, Anaheim, some teams that are out of the spotlight a little bit. At the top of the list, you got Edmonton, Toronto, Washington, Boston. Oh, this is for the suspension. The most suspended teams over the past seven. year. So there is some fuel for the fire if you want to be a conspiracy theorist there. I am. I am fueling the fire today. I think this is absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe that the Toronto Maple Leafs, one of the calling cards of this team that we've made fun of for multiple

years being one of the softest teams in the league and all they don't push back and they don't do anything is the most suspended team in the league. It makes absolutely no sense. There's no other sense that this can make than conspiracy theory. What else is there? You can't handle that's it Please remind me Like I don't even know Who these guys are

I can't even Like the only one I remember is Morgan Riley Yeah Morgan Riley Matthew's on Dahlene The should have a suspension Hit the shoulder up to his Up to his chin The Jason's bet's a knee on Pionk was six games

Bunting I just got my ear He got he I was a bad one He earned the three on that one He kicked the feet out from behind him He earned three on that one Yeah But I mean like I look back on I mean

Engval got a game for accidentally slashing somebody on the top of the head I just am kind of at my wits end I don't understand what other explanation there is than favoritism against the least I don't understand what does that cost Bobby McMahon that's a good amount of money for a guy making 1.3 whatever right no

like do you have it would just be a day's pay a day's pay so like three grand or something like you both are looking Do you not think this is something? I think. How is this not something? No, I'll tell you what it definitely is. And I said this the other day.

It's just what would have taken five minutes between Columbus and St. Louis, a decision gets an hour of going through it like a fine-tooth comb. I agree with Kip. I don't think it's a sincere effort or a dislike. I just think that nothing. goes under the radar here. Every play that's a maybe is like is this going to be a suspension. It leads

our show. But then that is a massive disadvantage to a Toronto Maple Leafs team. It is. It's a dissent. Well, because they have the most fans and the most watch teams, they have to be the most suspended? Well, that doesn't make any sense. It's because of

the ability to send your message out through a Maple Leaf is much different than sending it out with a Columbus Blue Jacket. I don't tell you, that happens in Seattle versus Columbus. Yeah, exactly. That's not even talking about. Maybe it's a $5,000 fine.

Doubt it. Okay. But they also think because it's in Toronto and all the eyeballs that they get, maybe to your point a little bit, without being biased, without hating the Leafs, Sammy. They just go, we just can't have everybody looking at that and going. It's okay to. club a guy over the head and i totally think that maybe maybe that's just it if it was if it was

quieter if it was down south and you know and a half a dozen people are watching a late game from new york or toronto or east coast it's easier to get away with a a thousand dollar find or five can you expand this side of it to me though gonzalves right Gage Consolves, is that right? Am I saying that correctly? It sounds very bad coming out of my mouth, so I feel like it's wrong. He had been fined, I think, this season or last season, for a very similar playing, play, for kneeing. Yeah.

Is that right? Against, oh, let me give you one guess who that team was against. Oh, I don't know, the Florida Panthers. And then the knee happens with just as many eyeballs on it, just as many people talking about it, in the exact same game where Bobby McMahon, viciously. tapped on the side of a guy's helmet. No hearing, no nothing? You know, what the hell is that?

I'm all, I'm kind of torn on the Gonzalves one. Like I, I felt like it wasn't very forceful. You know what I mean? Like he, he, but intent and injury. Are those not, those don't matter? Well, I don't know. It's really hard to intent. When you go in like that, it's hard to intent that I'm going to rip your knee up.

Yeah, like it worked out kind of worst case for a greasy play. I don't know. I'm torn on how bad that one was. He can't get fine 3K for that. I didn't like it, Sammy. I'm with you. I don't understand. That one to me is way more dangerous than a tap.

I'm just, I'm kind of. I saw zero intent on McMahon. I think there was a little bit of a hurt. Well, it was, no intent to hurt. No intent to hurt.

Could have been a fine. Fine would have been totally fine. It would have been fine. Let's get Craig Bruby's thought on the suspension. Clip four, Derek. To be honest with you, I don't really know. I mean, I think we lose a guy for probably a month at least. There's nothing that I've heard.

I don't know. It wasn't much of a, I thought it was more of him getting kind of bumped than a stick. Kind of, you know, I know you got to be in control your stick. But I don't think it's worth a suspension. Yeah We're all in agreement on that Yeah I've changed my mind And I just

To finish it off I truly cannot believe That the Toronto Maple Leafs Since he took over Goon squad Yeah just a bunch of dirty I don't even know where Florida is on that list Middle of the pack

That's a good question 30th team in the league For four straight seasons And they're middle of the pack Florida has eight suspensions to Toronto's 12 8 to 12 8 to 12 And none of them higher than three games

Well, there's plenty for trauma. Okay. Did we get Craig's thoughts on Nick Robertson? We did not. Oh, go ahead. Oh, no, I was just going to talk a little bit about the guys who are on the ice today. Do you want to stick with the... Yeah, let's just finish up with the lineup.

We started off with Willie on the third line and Nick Robertson coming back and what Broby needs to see out of Nick. Let's have a listen. Being a little more, like I talked to you the other day, I felt his tenacity and is getting involved and engaged a little bit. To me, that's a big part of his game. Getting in on a forecheck, disrupting things, being physical,

using his speed, all those types of things. I felt dropped off. So I think if he just brings that, good things will happen for him. I think Cowan and Nick have a chance to re-energize Tavares, who's, as we've said earlier, looked maybe just a tad tired or some heavy legs.

But I think J.T. could respond well to especially Nick's energy. Yeah, Nick's energy is great. He is a worker. I also think Easton Cowan is one of the guys who can make plays to get someone else a good shot. And if Nick Robertson can get a good look, he's likely to shoot it in, right?

He's one of the guys we're confident they can do it. So, hey, it could work. You know, it could work. It could also not. Yeah, it could work. All right, and we mentioned Mermis out now over a month to go until we see him. Myers, Morgan Riley didn't skate today, correct? Yeah.

So who's in for him? Well, Myers filled in for Riley at practice, but Henry Thrun. Thrun's in the house. Who has picked up on waivers or? No, Ryan Reeves trade. Oh, the Ryan Reeves trade. All right. And, yeah, I mean, there wasn't.

I don't think we're going to see him. Well, Thursday. He said he might play it on Thursday. He did. Yeah. So there's a good chance. Okay.

And so that means Myers out. The reason he alluded to it is because he said that he's been playing the right side with the Marleys as a left-handed shot. So like he's kind of ready for this spot. So, I mean, it's going. Welcome to the NHL. Play on your offside with Simone Benoit. Probably got to be pretty tough if you're Myers looking at them calling up some guy

that's a left-handed option from the Marley's to pull. play in front of you like it's got to sting a little bit yeah that's that's the message he deserves to have yeah and then i i think it's like i would much rather have him be there than myers at the place at least you can see what he's got got a little bit of pedigree i don't know i'm not expecting a ton but he's going to be playing on thursday apparently because his former team riley ohio cape stetcher benwath run yeah okay would you like to make your joke justin uh that they're running out of options. Sorry.

I got boot up Twitter for that. Yeah, that's pretty good. You did not put that on Twitter. Unfortunately, I did. Sorry, Kip. Sorry, buddy. Betrayed the show. Sorry, buddy.

He's on the ice, and then two other guys were on the ice today. Joseph Wall. Yeah. A sighting and Chris Tannen. Who do you want to talk about first? Let's play the... Oh, go ahead.

Joseph Wall is a good sign. Do we actually think between now and Saturday night versus Edmonton there's a chance that he'd come back? Well, let's listen to the coach and see what he is. All right. He felt good today talking to him after he came off. So, you know, like I said, it's probably a week, like from when I told you. So that would have been.

I told you. It was Saturday. It would have been after, I think it was Saturday when he said that it was a week. It would have been a week. Saturday or Sunday he said it. So maybe not the game against Edmonton, but then they play again on Tuesday night, I believe, against, I can't remember.

They play so much hockey coming up here. So maybe it's the start of next week that he gets back in. Kippery looks skeptical. No, I was just kind of laughing at Chief a little bit off that, at the end of what he was saying. Yeah, like I told you. Well, like he's so close to saying, see, see when I talk about injuries,

some things can come true. I would you talk about when I get it right for a change. Cleared for Saturday and then play next week. I mean, I'm not. Sam's making stuff up. I'm just making stuff up. But that's what I would assume. No, no.

That's what I'd like to see. I think he's going to play Saturday. I think if he was anyone else but Joseph Wall, I'm okay with that. But there's one week for goalies and then there should be one week and a few more days for a Joseph Wall or stole ours. Injuries are injuries, right? They're no different just because your last name's different. No, I think his groin might be different than others. Yeah.

So, We got Dr. Doctor, Doctor, Doctor coming up here. Oh, yeah. But let's ask him about groin's. So, uh, whoa. Sexy. So, uh, they play Thursday, Saturday, and then it's Tuesday against the Blackhawks at home.

I bet you, I'd be much more comfortable with Joseph Wall playing against Chicago. Yeah. By the way, The amount of hockey this team plays coming up here is absolutely baffling. Between now and the end of the month. No, no, no, no, no. They're good till Christmas. It's good till Christmas.

What do you mean? Yeah. They play. There's some space between games. No, they play Thursday, Saturday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, Sunday, Tuesday. They play bang, bang, bang, bang. They're not hard games And

A lot of them are at home There's some They gotta get some points here You gotta take a look at the schedule It's sharks, murderers row It's sharks, oilers Sharks are Yeah

Come on guys They gotta win tomorrow I just They're playing literally every other day And more frequent than every other day Edmonton's We'll see Edmonton They're coming off a horrible

point last night that they took off. I mean, Blackhawks are middling. They're middling at this point. Capitals are among the league's elite. Pred Stink. Stars are among the league's elite. Penguins playoff team right now. No, yeah.

You got to beat the penguins. You got to beat Nashville. Yeah. So, listen. I need 10 points until Christmas. Five games? No, in seven.

Oh, okay. I see seven. Yeah. But where it gets really dicey for them is in the new year when they start looking at getting out on the road, right? Utah, Vegas, Colorado, I think. That's to me is when we're going to find out if. For me, this is pre-New year is volume of games. They just play.

There's never more than two days off outside of Christmas. It's a lot of hockey. don't see there's no three and four sure there is 27 28th and 30 no no I'm talking about before Christmas 18 20th and 21st my focus is the the the 23rd that I think 20th 20th I think there's room to make there's room to make hay here I mean great I would love that to be true I love your optimism yes yeah I'm not I'm not as worried about it yeah I mean I am I mean hopefully if Joseph Wall's back that I'd be less worried about it but I mean, if it's just Hill to be

and you're playing against all these teams, you're really hoping that he's okay because then it's like you're looking at Actyamov against some of the elite teams in the league here with, I know the Oilers are having a tough time, but, you know, stars are somehow two points back of the Colorado Avalanche. Like they're one of the best team of the leagues.

You're getting them on the second half of a back-to-back. So you hope to God that wall is back by then. You know what would help some wins here is getting Chris Tanna back. Chris Tana skated today again and he is set to be assessed. today, according to reports. And Barubi said that today.

Yeah, we said that. Do we have anything on him? He did, it was. I have something. I got a friend of mine is an ER doctor and was listening to our segment. And he heard you say yesterday that TANF could have surgery and be back this season still. And he said, if that's the case, it's almost certainly a microdiskectomy. They are considering to help with nerve compression with pain rating down one of the arms.

He says, have he said that? Most people with nerve pain will do well with time and physio, and it looks like his symptoms have improved significantly. So microdiskectomy may not be necessary. That's likely what's being discussed today with a specialist. I don't know. That's just from all the information we have pieced together, something like that where you can get better.

You can work through this without surgery, but even with surgery, you could be back. That's, I did my Sportsnet.coma article yesterday, and that's basically the message here. It's not a foregone conclusion that, surgery is the best option for him. If he can work on it and they're comfortable

that he can play without worrying about recurring or making it worse. It's just nerve pain. That sounds like it doesn't hurt. You should be fine. Quickly before we go to break, we're going to have Luke Fox in the next segment.

I noticed I was doing some reading on sports at tons of a just mentioned your article. You put out a Team USA today. Oh, shut it up. it's on the main page so I would imagine that means it's up Matthew Nyes Matthew Nyes

I did include Matthew Nyes on Team USA's Olympic roster and let me tell you this not even close wow no brainer they got to have him you think he's going to be there yeah I looked at this team

and there's no world where you don't have him he's over a point per game he kills penalties by 20 minutes a night too big and too strong too big and too strong there's not many guys there's not a spot you can't put them first line four line

It makes sense on every line I was hoping he was going to get a rest He is not going to get a rest I was kind of been like oh well At least they're only going to lose their Two best players And now it's like well Matthews, Neelander And Nyes all going to be gone

All of Reckman Larson potentially Who's playing great could be gone He should Yeah he's been fantastic Troy Stetcher for Canada He's going to be gone Either you want best on best Or you want your Leafs rested

You cannot have both I get it. I understand, and I do want best on best, but... Best on almost best, if they're Leafs. I do care about the Toronto Maple Leafs as well. And, yeah, I mean, there's some good players on the team that are going to be heading overseas to play in the soup rank. By the way, this American team, please check out the article.

I wrote it from Canada's point of view about how we deal with these guys. Man, they got good hockey players in the U.S. They don't have the top, tippy, tippy top guys. I still... But they got Quinn Hughes and Warensky on the back end are pretty tippy top. That is the one thing that we didn't have to face at the Four Nations. No Quinn Hughes. No Quinn Hughes.

And who was the coach? O'Sullivan? Quinn Hughes is coming. Remember that? Oh, yeah. And then he didn't. He didn't go. He did not arrive.

That was so strange. That was one of the weirdest things that's really happened in a while. But he's just like, yeah, Quinn Hughes is coming and then he did not arrive. He did not go. Good stuff. Okay. Okay. We'll take a quick break. And when we return, Luke Fox, NHL writer for Sporset.

Dot,ca. We'll join us next as we continue our Leaf Edition hour on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Everything you need to know about the Raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA. Smith and Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple,

Spotify, or wherever you get your Podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Leaf Hour edition. Nick Caprio, Stress and Borne, Sammy McKee. Let's welcome in Luke Fox, NHL, writer for sportsnet.com. Covers the Toronto Maple Leafs. Sammy's Toronto Maple Leafs.

Luke, what's up, bud? How are you? Things are going pretty good. How are you guys? We're good. We're good. I take it you made it to practice today

and you know battled the weather I guess and the traffic a little bit well I did make it to practice but I made it to the San Jose Sharks practice instead instead of the Leafs A little more interest there I have a little bit of interest

because you know I'm keeping an eye on on Team Canada so I wrote a little bit about Macklin Celebrini and his bid to make the Olympic team I also wanted to catch up with Ryan Reeves and talk to a different team for a day. But I kept tabs on what was going down in Leafland as well.

What's going on with Revo? Is he chatty today? Is he he's got his opinions on the Leafs per se? Yeah, a little bit. He's always chatty. He's always sitting at his stall, always ready to talk. You know, I talked to him about how he'll remember his time in Toronto. And he said, you know what?

I made some great friends. He's going out for dinner with Austin and Max Domey tonight. He said he's hoping some other guys can make it. He knows a couple of them are under the weather, he said. But he said, I'm going to have some lifelong friendships, but he's like, I've been around and it's a business, and not every stop ends the way you'd like. And I said, do you mean like with ice time and stuff?

And he said, no, it was more about the trade deadline. And I don't know if he thought the communication could have been better. when he got put on waivers there last trade deadline when they added Carlo and Lawton he was the odd man out and I don't think he was entirely thrilled with how that went but he said hey I love San Jose

he wants another contract he wants his silver stick and now he's going to need another contract to get that he was hoping he would get that just with the three year deal he signed when he joined the Leafs so and it's interesting

All right, my mic was off there. That is fascinating that he's still pursuing things out there in San Jose. Tell us about the sharks. What's your takeaways from this team, which is kind of middle of the pack standings-wise, which represents a pretty good bump from last year? Yeah, for sure. And it's led by Macklin Celebrini, Justin.

Like, this kid's amazing. He's a plus seven on a team with a negative 16 goal differential. number one center playing over 20 minutes a night the only guys ahead of him in the scoring race are Connor McDavid and Nathan McKinnon just wild you know and and it's a feel-good team so there was a few of us in there

there were zero cameras but everyone's at their stall the vibes are high everyone's willing to talk and it's like you're catching them at the beginning of a wave You know, the Leafs were once in that spot. It's like the future is bright. All you're doing is getting better.

It's very much similar to the situation in Chicago. And Connor Bardard's going to be coming through Toronto here soon too. And I think it's just like there's a lot of optimism. And yeah, they're fighting for their playoff lives. And it's one of those situations where if they don't make it, hey, at least we're taking steps. And if you do, everything's gravy. but I was blown away by the confidence of this kid because one of the things I asked them was

are you surprised when you look at where you are in the scoring race when you look at the fact that Team Canada is meeting this week and they're talking about you and you might be pushing someone out and he thought for a second he's like no I'm not surprised he's like I know what I am

I know I put in the work and the guy's only 19 I'm just blown away by his confidence yeah 19 it almost just feels like the san jose sharks are on this celebrini tour to get him on team Canada uh season he's on team canada does it feel that way i i think he's on i think he's on my my roster for what that's worth but uh you know uh so their their coach david warsovsky was was talking to mike sullivan and like how did you deal with sid how do you coach sid and it's that kind of blueprint that they're trying to take in San Jose. They're already talking about him as, you know, being a leader of men.

And the guy's, you know, the youngest guy in the room. It's kind of wild. But he composes himself with that presence already. You were like me at 19 years old, just listening to hip hop and just being sad. I'm not way now. It's no different. It's so true. Luke and I have a lot in common.

Don't worry about it. Did you want to go? No, no, I'm just picturing you and Luke hanging out at 19. Luke and I would have hung out when we were 19. We got a big day later this week. We do. We also, yeah, that's right. Luke and I share a birthday too.

Don't worry about it, guys. Talking about the Toronto Maple Leafs, some things are moving here. Joseph Wall's back on the ice. Chris Tanev is back on the ice. Those things are exciting. We were talking before about the shuffle with the lines, though.

That kind of had our attention, most of all. Willie Nealander down to the third line. Any sense if that's an attempted punishment or just an attempt at getting people moving? It's an attempt to wake up that second line that's, you know, kind of gone through a lull. I think it kind of started after Austin came back. John Tavares, you know, his ice time went through the roof when all of a sudden he was the number one center. And he played amazing. But that dip has kind of coincided with William Nealander's dip, which A,

he's nursing something like he's needed the odd maintenance day be he got sick for a bit there so maybe that's playing it a portion you know into that second line lull so i don't mind it you know i saw william uh his video talking to reporters today and he was like hey i admit it like we we need to try something new we need to shake it up i think it's going to be temporary guys like it's just it's one of those things. Bobby McMahon's suspended for one game, you know, maybe it's as short as a one game trial

you know, after the Sharks game when Bobby McMahon gets done serving his suspension and we see Tavares with Neander again, but it is kind of funny that whenever they do spread it out to three lines, who's on line three every time? It's Neelander.

He has gone four games without a point though, and you know, he's saying, I want to score. like he really feels like in order for him to make an impact he has to do it on the score sheet the coach might say hey there are other ways you can chip in and we'll see nick robertson of course with tavars and uh easton cow and you know for robertson it's one step forward one step back one step forward one step back eventually will we ever see this guy have two steps forward with the Leafs or is this just the way it is it feels like that it feels like that Nick

and I like I'm curious if this keeps going like is he the guy that's on the outside and playoffs again I mean that's that's the thing that that has really irked him and he's you know he doesn't he downplays it but that was you know the the impetus for him asking for a trade out of town is like yeah you'll give me stretches where you'll play me But when the chips are down, I'm up in the press box when it's in the playoffs. And I feel like because of his size, he has a harder time earning Craig Brouvae's trust. Like Craig Brubay doesn't talk about Nick Robertson the way he talks about Easton Cowan already. Like there's other guys that seem to leapfrog over him.

But I don't like Nick Robertson on the fourth line. I think he's a top six player. And so this is a great opportunity for him to do the old. the old scratch and score up in the, up in the second line. I think he needs his ice time. That definitely seems like the best fit for him. Hey, the other end of things, the defense, Morgan Riley, just a rest day today? Illness.

Illness. Okay, so that's going around. But he's expected to play unless the illness gets worse or whatever. And then we might see Thrun and Myers. But it looks like Thrun will probably make his Maple Leafs debut tomorrow. and a bit of a puck mover. He's comfortable playing. He's a lefty, but he's comfortable playing on the right side.

He's been playing on the right side down with the Marley's a bunch. They don't like Simone Benoit playing his offside. So pencil him in for third pair right side. And, you know, I was at the Sharks practice, and their coach was, like, really happy that Thrun's getting a chance. It says this kid tries so hard, really coachable, feels like he's an NHLer. but we didn't want him. Yeah, he's really happy.

They're going to play him against us. Not to the point where we wanted to keep him, Luke. He's like, make sure they play. Did he include that in? Myers, Thrun, Rify, anyone they want to put in. He's not good for us, but he's good for the Leafs. Yeah, but they need Reeves to protect Celebrini, right, Nick? Yes, for sure.

Just in terms of now that Leafs kind of Myers on the odd man out here, Machelli looks like another healthy scratch here. Are we to the point now where it's kind of the writings on the wall that these guys will be on the outside unless someone starts to get hurt or you just run out of bodies because it seems like Machelli is just going to, there's no real window to get back in?

No, someone's going to have to go through a horrible slump or there's going to have to be injuries or more suspensions I guess I don't know but he is he is on the outside and you know they gave him every chance in the world like they tried to give him I get what they haven't done is give him PP1 chance

pb1 looks but outside of that they gave him lots of opportunity in the top six they tried to create a third line you'll remember of all the new guys and nothing is really stuck and I just I think he's not a Brubay player, guys. I just think there's only so many spots for small,

shifty playmaking guys, and right now that's Max Domi, and I don't know if Brubay wants another one. I feel like it doesn't align with how he envisions the team playing with dump a chase and hard checking and grinding and getting to the net. Machelli's more of a perimeter guy, more of a disher. Who could have foreseen that in the summer? Very interesting.

So is anything changing with the power play? I saw Willie had a great quote today. He said, what do you want to see different on the power play? And he said, just shoot in the net. And he said he just score a goal. Like literally asked for no changes. What are your thoughts on the power play? Will they change anything?

I think they should try the two units. Brubet said that, like, he's gone back to the same five that, you know, that he had in training camp and said, you know, the underlying numbers showing, show that we're getting our best chances with that group. I'm almost of the mind that you blow it up. I mean, you're operating at 13% and we're heading towards mid-December, second worst in the whole league.

And it's a head scratcher when you consider how much talent and how much money is invested on that top unit. And I'm not saying go for two units for the rest of the season. I just mean more of a dramatic shakeup maybe to get these guys attention or feel like it's a refresh.

Yeah, it is mind-boggling. All right. Anything else for lucky Luke? Nope, I'm all good. I'm going to ask you a question about Kelly Yarncrock after we're done, but Luke's free. Luke, great stuff, man. Looking forward to your piece on the sharks and celebrini.

Yeah, thanks, buddy. Okay, thanks. Take it. Fox, everybody, Sportsnet.com. Before you talk about Jarncroft. Who wants to win a bunch of cash? We'll do the best thing this holiday season. Sportsnet 590, the fan is all in supporting the 50-50 fortune for sick kids.

It's a 50-50, so the more money we raise, to more kids we can help, and the more holiday cash you can win. The current take-home prize is over $364,000. Buy your tickets at 50-50 fortune.ca or text award money to $590-590, and we'll send the link right to your phone, 18 plus. Please play responsibly. Standard message and data rates may apply. Lottery license, RAF-151-8410.

There was a stray internet rumor today. Callie Yarncrow is being linked to the SHL's Brynus IF for the 26-27 season. Like he's signed a contract for next year somewhere back overseas. This guy's in, he's out, he's kind of on the fringes of the team. I'll pay for the Uber. What's that?

I'll pay for the Uber. I just don't see him on this team, post-trade deadline, part of the solution. Yeah. I don't. Kind of grew on me a little bit. I like his effort. But he's not.

moving the needle in the playoffs. No. Not big and strong enough. No, no, no. And kind of a... Not going through anybody. He's kind of fishing for pucks. Yeah, like he'll be in the right spots.

He plays hard enough that they somehow feel safe with him. Yeah. Right? And I think he is responsible, but... He's an adult. He plays like an adult. Yeah, he is in a perfect world. If you were really, really...

solid in a lot of other areas of the ice maybe you can get away with him playing a third line rule somewhere depending on what the other two guys on the line look like but he's played 30 playoff games just he shot it in once he's just there's just there's just nothing there's just nothing there in terms of when it matters most that this guy you know what Connor Brown Hyman before Hyman turned into a 50 goal score with Edmonton these are the guys that

somehow should have been around playing that kind of rollish area now you have vast yarn crow to do it no it's not quite the perfect fit is it? Yeah we have the coach on the power play do we not yeah we do do we play that already? I don't know do we care we don't talk about it it's a broken record

okay I just I'm down to like hockey gods Give them a bounce Like we've seen some good bounces In the last week and a half Scott Lotton Behind the net hits out Open net

Like they're starting to get some bounces This is your plan This is my plan Their only goal Their only goal against a goalie on Monday night Was a wonderful bounce Straight into the slot For Morgan Riley who tucked it home

Went full Bobby Moore flies in there Just need they just need something they're not that bad I think they are no they're not that no they're not the worst in the league Sammy they might be 15th to 20th

let me double check the I know I know what the they don't get like they get zone time they don't get dangerous chances they haven't got dangerous chances all year they have nine power play goals this year I know I think I think Dallas is like 35 they've also given up a couple shorties

so they're what like plus seven or something they have Matthew nice to the net, big strong guy with hands. Tavares can finish as good as anyone. They have guys. So can we figure this out? You have the tools. You have the parts.

Build the machine. No, I think it, and again, it's, I think it's stemming from not being able to leave Morgan Riley their long term, not being able to leave OEL their long term,

going to five forwards, can't do that long term. If you ever put a T, 2D. There's OEL and Riley up there. It's just a revolving door of ideas. This whole era, they've never had the power play quarterback goalie. Nice one. They've never had the quarterback defenseman.

They've never had it. Like a guy that could hit a one-time or hard. They tried it with Tyson Barry. It was no good. They've tried it with all these different guys. They did Marner. It was the best with Marner. But they've never had a shot.

They've never had a guy back there. Never a threat. Never had a Bouchard. And boy, Bouchard loves to cough it up. But God, he's brilliant on the power play. Oh, I can't wait to talk about his latest in the national hour. That was a fabulous play he made. To Sam's point, every time, no matter what,

and we'll talk about his gaff last night, but every time the puck goes back to the point, you hold your breath because he could shoot it in on his own or he can fake and hit Connor or Leon somewhere on the flanks. And you can also bobbering for a short hit. break away. It's just too hard to defend. Yeah.

Yeah, if you have the shot in someone who's willing to pass back there, it is unbelievable. Remember how good Mike Green was for OV in the early days? Yeah, exactly. And always in his wheelhouse. Yeah. Like, you can screw up that pass too, you know, even by being an inch or two off. Now, Ovi has a big wheelhouse compared to most people. But yeah, you was able to get it to the right wall.

Did you see that status of any about Ovi? No. He's had zero defensive zone starts this year? No. way. They're not stupid. Why would you put them there? Never? Zero percentage. Like they've had icing, so that's a continuous shift or whatever he's had to do it, but he has had

zero percentage of his zone starts in the fence. Spencer Carverie's like, uh, no. I'll do it. All right. Our thanks to Luke Fox from sportsnet.com. Don't go away. We're just warming up. We go national next. Gary Galley will join us. Former NHL are always a great

guest on the Real Kipper and Bourne show and Dr. Jason Smith. A lot of injuries out there. Groins. Oh, my groin. Back. Groins next. After these words.