Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Off-Day Line Swaps

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee weigh in on Craig Berube's changes promoting Bobby McMann and William Nylander to the top line with Auston Matthews, while Matthew Knies and Matias Maccelli move down with John Tavares. Then, they debate what Auston Matthews' leadership role is and what it should be. Then, Nick, Justin and Sam head to The Leafs Line, hearing your calls and questions on the Maple Leafs' start to their 2025-26 season. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

It is the Leaf Hour edition of our Real Kipper and Born show. We are live on Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. It's also available for download on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Nick Kipreels, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jake the Snake Shultz. This hour, Real Kippenborn, brought to by Bet365. Somebody told me that the Leafs are playing this weekend. Who? Who?

Who? Who? Hey? And you are going, Sammy. You are going and you canceled Leaf Talk and people are crushed. Yeah. Just crushed. Yeah, if you're a listener of Real Kippermborn and you like Leaves Talk, too,

and I've heard there's some crossover. those fans yes uh there will be no leaves talk friday night because i will be present at rogers center to watch game one of the world series and there will be no leaf stock on saturday either so game one and we're going back full board next week we'll go back into it on they're on the road but listen these opportunities don't come along a ton i i care deeply about the leaves listen about the leaves too but j b and i could have been at the game one but we're we're working you're professionals we're working i am not a professional if you're listening to this You know that by now.

I am far from a profession. And you don't play one on TV. Correct. I play a bumbling idiot on TV. Apparently, we don't have any sound. We don't have any sound from the leaves today. Why don't we, producer Sammy? Okay.

Because today is the new, is Media Day for the Jays, for the World Series. Yeah. So it's a pretty big day around here. In case you hadn't heard, we're the home of the Blue Jays. And I just don't think we sent the camera. I love it. You know, in my day, in my heyday with Sportsnet, the producer would always go to morning skates

and have his tape recorder. You know what the fun part about that is? Why is it our producer down there on morning skates? Because of the Js, we start at two, and I can't get down there in time and get back here. So it's a Jays-related problem. The new one is about 10 days to start it out before people, the eye of Sauron, flips,

over to the Leafs. Do they ever? They're hoping for a seven game series. Will you break through like today and tomorrow our show for breaking Jay's news on who's wearing who's jersey at all? No, I won't. Okay? And yeah, do I have regrets about that reaction?

100%. No, you don't. I do. I do. In retrospect. Why? Because it's embarrassing. It is to have that reaction. Totally correct. It was embarrassing. And I fully own how embarrassing it was. But I've got a lot of scars.

I wasn't talking about, I wasn't talking just you. I was talking about everybody there. But like you said, I kind of was the first one that sent a tweet about it. Like I kind of, I kind of fade in the flames. And I feel bad. But you're super fan, Sammy. I know, Kemp, but I still feel bad. Okay.

Matthew's, you know, and Vladdy, Vladdy's above that. He doesn't, he's uncursable right now. So, there we go. Oh, oh, that sentence hurt me to hear. Did you do it? Cursed the uncursable. What, like what? Oh, they're going to get swept by the Dodgers.

Oh, what a curse. Like, it's a super team. They're making their billion-dollar team. That, the, the TikTok you sent me of the fake Dodgers owner is one of the best things. All the rich, all the players. Double a salary. Get me him.

Break the contract. We may not know much about the Leafs preparing for Buffalo Friday night, but we do know that we'll see new lines. We will see new lines. And a couple days ago, I sent out the lines. Did you do this? Well, I don't think I did it. I think you might have.

But I said, these are the lines I would like to see. And now the only thing different is the fourth line, which was just the line that used that day, which is why I threw it in there. But we have McMahon Matthews-Neilander, which is the line I wanted to see. Fast wingers who forecheck. Fun fact about the Toronto Maple leaves this year.

Who do you think leads them in hits? I don't, McMahon? Bobby McMahon. Do you know how many he has? He is 30 and the next highest is 21. Really? Yes. Nyes is the next highest one?

No. Joshua is 21. Nize has 19. McCabe has 18 and then it drops down to 10 and below. I don't want to be. Four guys are hitting. I don't want to be this guy, okay? But I'm about to be.

I've watched every single leaf game so far. I mean, they've played a lot of games at home. That could be some hometown scoring. Well, they've all played at home. I know. That's what I'm at like for Bobby. 30 hits. Hits? Have you guys seen 30 hits?

I don't know. I'm not paying attention to him. I haven't seen next level physicality from Bobby McMan. Crush guys, but he is the number one current hitting guy on the team. You know who crushed guys? Patcheretti. Yeah. Like, Pat you're ready. Your ex-girlfriend, we're doing this. Do you want to get her back?

Send her a text. She's just coached in Michigan. She's not available. I'm a big believer of hitting to hurt. Yeah. And you know what hurts? Everything on Max Patcheretti all the time. I know.

I'm hitting people. Yeah. I'm just saying. There is a missing element to that. But he was. It's great if you can have six of them in Florida where they hit to hurt. But he was he was the best at it last season on a team that won the Atlantic Division. Not even close.

He changed momentum with hits last year. He was a delight. Yeah. 10 patch ready hits by. be worth 30. For sure. McMahon hits. McMahon second in the league and like the, his fastest speed burst, I believe.

Like fast guy is finishing his checks. Nealander is second in the league in points. Whatever you think of him, he gets points, gives Matthews a better chance of this thing. And I really like the odds of Nyes, Tavares, Micelli. Like, Micelli can make some plays, Nyes can handle it, Tavarez can finish. I like that line. A third line of Joshua Wawah Cowan. I like because Cowan's a dog, too, even though he's smaller.

And they can protect How often have we really seen stretches of Matthew's Kneelander because it was always Marner? Well, there's a whole year where it was Matthew's Kneelander. Yeah, at the start of, in their both in Matthew's rookie year, they played together the whole season. And that was the year Marner played with Tavares.

Fourth line, third and fourth line. That was Babcock. Yeah, when Babcock was so mean to Marner by playing him on the top power play unit and the top penalty kill and making them 11 million bucks a year, what a meany. Anyways. We regressed a lot. last year for a second. So Nyes can play anywhere.

We know that. Yeah. Yeah, and I don't think he's like a guaranteed first line left winner right now. If he gets you 30 and 60 points and hits a bunch of guys, that's a great player. And if he doesn't? Well, then what is he? Like, he scored 30 last year, so. He's a $7.5 million player?

That's what he is. What's your point? My point is that he should be on the top line. And he should be. Because if he makes seven and a half going. But he has to. You said if he does, I'm like you make seven and a half now.

And you should be riding shotgun with Matthews, but it hasn't hit. So, you know, I guess he's doing what he has to do. But I've got him all day long at 30 plus 70 points, 75 points. You've got him if he does that. I'm like, come on. I'm saying that's, you know,

you assumed that last year, it's, you know, the floor for your expectations for him, right? But, I mean, I see it as, and maybe it's something you and I often disagree on, you're building two good lines in your top six. You're not trying to build one good line. And this to me gives, because I believe in Nyes that he can help drive a line,

that I think Niz-Vars-Michelli can be all right. Yeah. And the, like, I mean, I'm not to, you know, Domi's veteran player in the NHL and... Not top six. I know. But, like, the yo-yo here for him, it's like okay go save the first line

one bad game four five center yeah it's like what I mean I agree with you I don't like how he's been handled what's going on with that that that to me doesn't make any sense but I guess at least he's more of a natural center man than Lawrence yeah no I understand that I'm just saying it's weird

I know that's a good line Lorenz Stomi Yarncrock is a good line for 10 minutes 12 minutes sure love it you can play that line and then you know, Lotton comes back. You drop him in the middle of that.

Domi takes Cowan spot some nights probably. You look at, you know, Joshua Waugh Domi, Lorenz, Lotton, Yarncrock. Guys, I like it. Can we get five games? Five games with a lineup? No, no, you can't because there's no proof that he likes to keep anything together and say regardless of what I witness,

it's going to be three or five games. Right. no he's got a very short fuse and it is it's like bingo balls right now you're just pulling you're you're you're turning it and you're you're pulling out numbers yeah robertson blazed out um like i'd be very frustrated if i was max tommy right now i'm like i think he'd be just just being frustrated please can i just spend five minutes with somebody let me keep a position let me keep some line mates you know it's uh it's probably tough to get in a rhythm.

And also of note that I saw a quote that Breweb said Riley wasn't there today. And I'm not sure, let me just double check, but maybe in question for Friday night. Is he banged up too? Yeah. So with Tanna vote right now, the lines are McCabe Carlo.

Think about that, as you will. Riley OEL and Benoit Myers. So Riley OEL is. No, Mirmus. Well, Mirmus is where Riley. will be he's well uh yeah so from david alter on twitter that craig ruby says morgan riley is dealing with something he doesn't know his status yet for tomorrow murmus oel so no tan of no riley yeah you know not to be that guy but so what you know like go play a good hockey meyers is in he's fresh

he's an nch l d man yeah i i i think i can't hurt right now because they they need to be a team that can't like they're actually overachieving a little bit. Well, I think there's so much went into, hey, they have nine NHLD, they have 14 NHL forwards. Now they're at their 14th forward or whatever and their ninth D. Okay, that

was the plan. Carry on. The other thing we didn't discuss yesterday was against New Jersey is like, I'd like to see Benoit start the game like he ended the game against New Jersey where it was penalize him for being the only one who fought

someone are you just useless it's just useless at that time of the game it's just like and it was a passionate fight you got the passion is the passion i need to have an effect on my team to save a game not to okay can you grab anything out of that going into buffalo yeah maybe i don't know but it's too late i did like he He stood up and tried to throw a big hit. Like, I like that Benoit has an awareness of trying to make a impact. Even when it's harder for him, I think he does. To your point, there would have been a better time for it, yeah.

Timings everything for some of these guys of when to do it. You've got to be able to read T leaves too. And I don't know, but the other thing that really bothered me, too, against New Jersey is they left the bench in the second. I think Burubi, like, marched into the room. So there's no question he gave it to them in between periods. Oh, my God. For two? Yeah.

And he's been all year every time he gets a chance to talk, harp in about the second period. I have no doubt that he had them what should have been on high alert to come out in the third. Yeah. And they were hemmed in and they looked horrible for those first four or five minutes. And I'm like, you're trying, you got 20 minutes. How can you come out so flat being down 4'2 when your coach just gave it to you? One thing for sure without Mitch Marner is when they are down in games, it's not going to magically be a comeback.

You know, like they had a lot of years where they were like, God, they played bad, but, you know, Marner made a sick play. Matthews ripped one. They got the two goals they needed. They got a point. That's going to be harder this year. You've got to stop bringing up Marner. Like, yeah, you just, you've got to stop doing that.

You got to play here for eight, nine years. The legitimate problem for this team heading into, you know, this next game, I feel like, is coming off that devil's game where you feel like everything went badly and we suck and we're terrible. Guys, I watched the Devils last night against the Minnesota Wild. Ran him off the rank. Wasn't even hockey. Yeah, killed him. Like, that devil.

The Devils team is a hockey team. Yeah, no, no, no. And so I think... They're the fastest team right now. You said before the game. Dare me to find a faster team than the New Jersey Devils right now. And so I think there, you know, some people are really down on them. I just like you guys encounter several people, you know, before I got to the show today.

And they're just like, they're brutal, eh? It's like, ah, boy, that devil's team made a lot of teams look bad so far. But you're going to eventually have to beat good teams if you want to make the playoffs. But that's how, you know, yesterday we did the where do you think they are in the league tiers it just puts them in perspective they're not in that tier but it doesn't mean that they're you know san jose i got um so i put i got them to put the text key up here because we didn't have any audio so i thought maybe we're going to do some calls after the break that i procured from earlier but it's a lot of questions about matthews and you know you didn't

want to bring up the kipper making fun of us for bringing up marner but i'm going to do it here that One of the sort of core arguments that you always had with Marner was that, you know, the whipping boy and the guy that always took the worst in terms of fans and media and all that stuff. And, you know, I've always argued that I thought all of them took it pretty hard on the chin. But it's happened really quick here with Matthews. And like, I don't know the tones of conversations you guys have with people outside of here and like people come up with you guys and talk lease all the time.

Obviously, that's what you guys do. to me all the time, about the lease. Matthews is in the crosshairs now. And people are on high alert of, like, are his best days behind him? Is he heard again? What's going on? Like, the pressure is on for Matthews. And I'm just like, every text we're getting here is about him.

It's happened fast. Faster than I expected it to happen. You and I had a night out this summer where we sat and talked to some locals and heard their opinions on thing. And it was startling to hear, you know, a room of what was a dozen people talking to you and be like, not a captain, not a leader, can't win with this guy. And just like watching the guy who has been the best goal score, a heart trophy winner, you know, Selky votes every year

and listening to people talk about him, like, boy, it's tough. It's tough out there. But Sam's not wrong. No, no. And I hope for his sake there's room, there's room to still grow. Yeah, totally totally Every aspect First of all

Outside of just shooting it in the net He really lacks A presence In this market And It was kind of hidden a little bit Through his goal scoring And the historic numbers

And the 69 goals but he's exposed a little bit right now because he's not putting the puck in at any rate and he doesn't have a presence on this hockey club as... What do you mean by that? And I'm not saying that to argue. I'm outlast you legitimately what you mean.

There's just, there's no sense that this is his team and he is the captain. That's it. I would argue that it reflects him the way the team looks right now. It's just like a lack of passion. Well, that's what I'm saying, a lack of presence. Yeah, well, yeah, I guess.

It's the same thing, Sam. We're on the same page. I assure you we're on the same page. It's a tough week. Been a tough week for Stolars. Been a tough week for Craig Barubi. I see after the game, I hear comments. Stolars led the charge there with the comments.

I think I saw follow-up. I just don't remember hearing or seeing the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs during this tough week. Okay. Stolars comes out and we talked about his comments yesterday, going to the press and being very positive. But he did somewhat say, I need to be better. And I don't recall too many comments from Matthew saying, I need to be better. He's taught. And right now, but it's just never,

it's not anything that sticks. Correct. It's not anything that you feel like a galvanizing moment or just, to my point, Sammy, have a presence. It's just, it's said and it's gone and it's like an evaporating text. It's just gone.

Let me read you something to prove your point here. So The Athletic has an article today, Jonas Siegel, has a one-on-one with Matthews. Interesting. And it's called, Inside Austin Matthews' motivation to recapture my standard for the Maple Leafs. And so I don't know if you remember yesterday at the end of the show, I said,

I would just love to hear some quotes from him where it's like I have focused on nutrition, watching video, I'm going to get better, whatever. You know, here's one of the quotes is, I think every year you want to do more, you want to accomplish more. But in the end, I know where I'm at and I know where I stand as far as my game and all the other stuff. you know like it's like he's on the track and then it's like yeah but in the end that's kind of just I am where I am said it's really about winning that's my main focus coming this season but you want to be a and they says obviously we're all after one goal he also says obviously you want to be better like he's

just kind of like it's just never it's always been that yeah it is kind of you do get the sense that he just wants it to go away I'm not sure how much he wants it in terms of I want to wear it I'm the guy put it on my shoulders. It starts with me. I don't think he he embraces that. And it's a problem. You know, he's saying all the right things about winning as a team.

He wants to win. It's a problem. It's all about the win. So a big deal now is Amazon, right? Amazon wants to follow the boys. It's a very sensitive topic with teams because they don't want to come across

like they don't want to help grow the game or market our players and sell, sell, sell. And Amazon's all about marketing and selling and getting these documentaries. And I'm watching the latest one. I ask you guys to watch it. No chance. Okay. The only time last season in a year where they won the Atlantic Division

that we saw Austin Matthews in the Amazon is when he said, one word to a cameraman that said out the rest of it he's nowhere to be seen and my first thought is like you're the captain you're the face you're the franchise you're the second highest paid player in the league you know just a few short years ago captain of america at the Captain of America. Why doesn't Amazon want this guy at the four-frank kid? Would Amazon ever do anything? She probably doesn't want that, right?

That's... Hold on for a second. Would you ever picture Amazon doing anything with the Edmonton Oilers and not having Connor McDavid, like, you know, Mike? But did he do a bunch of stuff? They had him in his house to talk about a chef made him fish one night or so. Buddy, all I remember is... Dig-in!

Dig-in! Right? That was like a moment. Which you hated. It doesn't matter whether I hated or not. He's at the forefront. It's about him. He is the face.

He is the franchise. So what did you just ask me seconds ago? I literally don't remember. You said he didn't want to. Oh, me. He probably didn't want to do it. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Didn't want to do it. Why would he not want to do it? You're the captain of the Toronto Maple Leaf. Who would want to do it? Oh, my God. No, listen, I feel like, But I don't want the guy who doesn't want to do it, leading my team.

You love reality TV, guys? No, it's not the point. The point is either you wear it or you don't wear it. There's no, it's either you're all in or you're out. There's no cherry picking with him. Right now, he looks to me like he's a cherry picker. He wants certain things. Go get your commercial.

go get this, go get that, go get to front row seats with Justin Bieber to wrestling or ultra whatever fighting. But I don't want this, this and this, and I don't want to stand up in the media and wear it. Yeah. As a leader, no presence this week for me out of him. You know, Kip, I find myself wanting to get Matthews,

to be like, this guy is... That's the fan in you. No, it's not. Then what is it? It's the human and mean that people are different and not everyone is this, you know, cartoon character hockey guy you want him to be where it's like rah-rah, literally Captain America,

stands up and does his thing. And we've seen great leaders in the NHL who are not that. Sasha Barkov is not that. The Siddins had success. They were not that. There are people who have success without being the guy you want them to be. And I think you can win,

with a different type of leader. You had one captain, Mark Messier, show you the guy that you loved, and you want everyone to be messy. Sasha Barkov has the biggest presence. If you pay attention... No, no, not from your view. No.

But go ask 20 guys in that room of the Florida Panthers. Whose room is it? Because he, the way he plays. No, no. He leads by example, not because he's grabbing guys by the collar like you're Mark Messier. You have no clue.

You're just seeing it through your eyes. guys, just go talk to them, listen to the way they talk about Sasha Barkoff, and he has the biggest presence in that room, bar none. Here's where I was originally going with that. I find myself wanting to get Matthews back and all this, because you don't have to be the guy that you want him to be to win. You just don't. There are other ways to do it.

However, I agree with you. What? No, no, I'm good. I'm good. I think we're kind of saying the same thing. However, I agree with you. I don't buy that I'm trying to sell you that you have to be a raw, raw, bra guy to have a presence.

Presence come in many different ways. Silence. That's where I'm headed. Silence can be a presence. If it's left at the body language. I have seen Matthews have a presence in other years. Body language can be a presence. There's so many different ways.

Success can be a presence. It's not standing in front of camera and yapping. I'm with you 100%. And if you look at his statistics, through the years. And I'm not talking about goals and assists. His hit numbers, when he was scoring goals and getting points, way up, they're way down.

His block shots, I think he has one takeaway this season. They played seven games. He's there, been their takeaway leader forever, one takeaway this season. So all these things, when he leads the team in block shots and he throws the most hits and he takes away pucks and he has a presence, that to me would be enough. But if he's not going to be that guy on the ice, you can't also be the guy who doesn't want to do media

because then what's the inspiring element? He's doing media. He's doing media. He's just... He's getting through media. He's just... He doesn't want to say anything that he... That he has to answer a second time. He's not a good meal where it sticks to your ribs.

No, you're right that it is all Inspector Gadget. This note will self-destruct... Whatever it is, it's nothing worth remembering. That's my whole point. Yep. And I'm not saying that he can't lead with what you just spoke of, but that's gone, off the ice, it's gone. Like, it's gone, like, there's just no presence.

I just got to come back to my original thought. There's just no presence with the man. We got to come in here on Monday after he fights Rasmus Dahlene off the opening face off on Friday, give him his flowers. Rastmas Dahlene is definitely the only guy he'd ever go. Well, I guess he went Stamcoast and the first fight between 260 goal scores and boy, did it look like it. Game time?

And maybe the last. Game time. All right. It's game time. Presented by Bet365. Visit the app for the latest odds and see why it's never ordinary. It's bad 365 must be 19 plus.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Just quickly pulling up the odds again for the Blue Jays. Staying, was it plus 180 yesterday? Yes, it was. It's now plus 185. So there's money coming in on the Dodgers. So they,

They are now even bigger underdogs than they were yesterday. Yeah. The lots of action on the ice tonight. I think what did I say? 12 games. 12 games tonight. A couple really good matchups. You know, I love watching the Panthers and they're playing against penguins and Cid's involved.

So I think we have that one on Sportsnet, if I'm not mistaken, tonight. So that's one I'll definitely check out. I love watching Cid still. Yeah. I get after it. So, and Gino's off to a hot start. I think he's got 10 points. in his first seven games or something.

He did that last year, too. So he's playing against his future team in the Florida Panthers. And the Florida Panthers are big faves in that one. Minus 200, the Hittsberg Penguins are plus 165. If I could give you a Sidney Crosby anytime goal, would you be interested in that? Give me a Sydney Crosby anytime goal tonight at plus 210. So I love that tonight.

And then later on, there was an excellent game. Yeah, there it is. Carolina taking on, call the rally. tonight. I was going to say the Marty Natchez revenge game. I don't know if there will ever be a faster game played in the history of the sport than those two teams going up and down the ice. Excellent game.

The Colorado Avalanche are minus 1.35 on the money line as a favorite. Carolina plus 115, not awful value for them going in there. And if I'm going to quickly look up a Marty Natchez goal in a revenge plus 190 for a NACIS, 7 games played, 5 goals, 6 assists, 11 points plus 9. God, playing with McKinnon must rock. contain this guy what's uh lackinins on there that's a great line potential eight year deal looking very very lucrative they would love a time machine to go get miko rantin and at 12 uh right boys uh and that was oh sorry that was game time because that by bet 365 visit the app for the

latest odds and see why it's ever ordinary at bet 365 is 19 plus ontario only please play responsibly all right once again penguins and florida panthers tonight seven p m sports net Ontario, Montreal, and Edmonton, also SportsNet West 830. Can I? Let's take a break. Before we go, Jerry Depoto is, what's his role with the Dodgers? I forget exactly. But his quote is, I will see George Springer on the ceiling of my sleep for years to come.

Depoto is the tormented us for years. Isn't DePoto the guy from Seattle? Oh, yes, it is. Yeah, he's the GM of Seattle. And he was with the Dodgers when Springer is the MVP. with a couple maybe. He's just haunted by George Springer. A couple bangs from trash can involved in that.

Can we haunt one more team? One more. He does own the Dodgers. So he's a lot of home runs at that state. Good. Good. All right. We'll take a quick break when we return. It is Leaf Line.

One of Sammy's favorites. Yeah, yeah. We got a few calls, Sammy. We got lots, yeah. We got lots. Yeah. Can't wait. Just sit back.

Get our lawn chair out. Crack, open a cold one. And listen to you. the fan coming up next when we return to real kipper and born everything you need to know about the raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA Smith and Jones subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts This hour real Kippron Boren brought to you a bet three, six, five at Kiprios, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee. Am I going to listen to Leafline and then regret going to a fan base that is jumping a little bit too early on seven games, Sammy?

I don't think so. I don't think so. Okay. By the way, did you guys see Ferrell Williams performing on Friday at the dome? No. It's like the opening act. So you get a Pharrell Williams concert too. Oh, really?

Yeah. For the World Series? Yes. They do an opening act? I guess. I haven't done this in 30 years. I forgot how it's done. Because I'm happy.

What else am I missing, Sammy Friday while I work? Yeah, enjoy boys. You guys want to do calls? Tough. Tough, really tough. He's really cocky over there right now. Blake Snell strikes at the side to start up. Like, ah, we're ruined.

We're going to. I promise my buddy Husey Pops At least you wore a real Kipper and Bourne hoodie today It did It's not a blue jay First non-Jays

It's a piece of apparel First thing I've seen in a while I Full disclosure Yeah When I just have no idea Where I just put this on It's dirty clothes day

Thanks man Yeah When you run out of clean clothes That's what you put on Let's start With I can't remember anything Let's do Mark and Collingwood

We've had a lot of discussion about the difference between the Jays and the Leafs and I think it comes down to the fact that Toronto fans like a specific style of player Wendell Clark Doug Gilmore, Darcy Tucker, Matt Sundeen, Vladdy, Ernie, Nathan Lucas, we like guys who love the city, we like guys who will bleed for the city every night and at the end of the day we see the Jays do it on a nightly basis and we have not seen the Leafs do it. So it comes down to this. The Jay's easy to love.

The Leafs, hard to like. First of it's a very good call. I'm going to quibble with a couple things. Yeah, me too. Go ahead. You first. My first quibble will be, is Vladdy in that category?

Or did he just hit a bunch of home runs last round? So this is exactly my point. And I have been guilty of having this exact same argument with my friends saying, oh, the Js are so likable. Yeah, because they won two playoff series in the World Series. What a likable team. Yeah, they win. Winning is likable.

When a team wins, you like them, right? Am I, like, sure, Ernie Clement's a good story. And Nathan Lucas is a good story. And, like, it's awesome. But you'd be doing it for Stephen Lawrence and Morgan Riley. It's just, it's a likable team is because they're winning. I'm not quivering with that comment at all. For me?

No, from him. Yeah, from Mark. But the only other thing, I had two things. This is where I disagree, is that you can't. have 20 Wendell Clarks. You need a Borchewski. Okay, what was he?

Nikolai. 5-7, 140 pounds soaking wet. I don't know. But he was a little guy who just darted. You need some of those guys. You can't have them all like

Wendell or have the mentality of a Dougie Gilmore who would knock your teeth out before you ever gave an inch to you. You don't get the nickname. name killer because you're soft out there you know it's funny because i have people come up to me and they're like your dad was the reason those islander teams won cups or whatever you know and it's like

if they had 15 of my dads it wouldn't want cops you need mike boss yeah yeah you know killies those guys so it's it's not that we're screaming for guys to look like that we just need a couple The Leaf fans just need a few. And that's your management. That's your general manager. That's your president. That's whoever. That's your scout.

Go find these guys. That's the problem with the Leafs over the years is that they've picked the wrong horses. My other point that I want to make that's related to this is that Toronto is not unique in liking Ernie Clement and Nathan Lucas and Wendell Clark and Doug Gilmore. Columbus fans, gonna love those guys.

Islanders fans, gonna love those guys. Fans love guys who wear their heart and their sleeve and care and are passionate instead of aloof and indifferent. I think a lot of what loving those kind of guys is just expectations.

Exceeding expectations is what fans love. And that's related to contracts. You have a low contract, people are like, love whatever you give us. But like, I think having Ernie Clement at the start of this year being sort of an afterthought,

not an afterthought, but like a contributor to him having an 1100 OPS in the ALCS is one of the most insane sort of dichotomies you can imagine and people like when people see that expectation. If he was making 25 million a year. Yeah, but people don't talk about contracts in baseball. No, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what anyone makes because there's no cap,

which is such a lesson of hockey. And the other thing for Lee fans in particular is that they can look at certain players and go, I don't have an expectation from you to be Wendell, okay? but where they get upset in general is when sometimes it's sold to you that you could be a Wendell and you just choose not to look like that and you know when we're on the ice we tend to call those guys bluffers and you can't bluff lique fans on that type of hockey and you'll hear it if you are a bluffer.

Let's go to Colin and Tennessee. As much as I feel like we are jumping the gun on the Leafs panic way too early and I think we're a couple games in and everything seems to be a little overboard. I am willing to say this and I never thought I would. I really do think Austin Matthews has taken a massive dip. And I say that from the place that every time I watch someone like a Connor McDavid or a Sidney Crosby or any of these guys, as soon as the puck hits their stick, I'm excited. I'm enjoying watching. I tune in deeper.

And every time I watch Austin Matthews, I just don't feel that. I don't get any superstarness from him at all when he's on the ice, maybe off the ice. ice, but when he's on the ice, I'm not excited. I'm not honestly even expectant of him to do anything with the puck at all. I know he's at injury. I know he's at issues, but I'm just starting to wonder if really he is a superstar. He's an incredible score and an amazing hockey player, but he's definitely not a superstar, at least in my eyes. And I think this could be concerning as far as continuing to build this team for whatever

future they have left with this group. Anyway, thanks. We'd love to hear your guys' thoughts. Who is that? Colin and Tennessee. Colin. Okay, so either his name is Colin or he said he's calling from Tennessee, but I couldn't quite make it out, so it went to Colin. Okay.

Yeah. Do you want to go first? I just say that last night I was watching the Buffalo Sabres play, and I think Tage Thompson scored or something, they had goals since I want to say it's like 2019 or 2021 it was like last four seasons he's just so far ahead yeah he was like second in the league I think tager third and he was 50 goals past the next highest guy

and it's like this superstar we did this one year of our show right like talking about who the actual superstars were in the league remember that you guys don't remember that was video back just to just to come to Austin's defense a little bit on that call it was not long ago he was that guy It was, well, it's kind of long ago.

Well, listen, he played, well, a year and a half. Yeah, year and a half. Was it last year? No, but he was also. He almost scored his 70th in game 82. You know, he had to go to Germany for a bad back. There was a, there was a grace period for him. And now it's like, okay, whether it's justified or not, whether you believed it was worse or better,

he did get the benefit of the doubt of not being healthy last season. I think he wasn't healthy. It doesn't appear like he's leading on that whatever he's going through with his lack of presence has anything to do with his health. He's told people he's fine. He feels good. He had a good summer. No one's leaning towards him being hurt.

But it's still there. And he is in the prime of his. of any career when you're you know late 20s so definitely now it does feel like since he was good and then hurt and whatever it would be nice now now now now like tomorrow like now now it's like against sabers when you guys are watching it's it's it's like there's season it's just and we did this yesterday it's just too early to to write him off like that like he's no longer a star it's just like you're jumping the gun way too fast here. He just needs to find whatever, whatever got him, you know,

those 50 and 60 goal seasons, 69, whatever passion, magic, whatever he felt, I'll tell you another thing about Austin for me personally. Like, the man has lost his confidence. He's lost that, that strut, whatever, he just doesn't, I don't know, it's just, I think it's a confidence. thing with him right now too he's got a he's got to break one open here to get the the juices flown again yeah have a few flying the net past a goalie when you rip one you know like start colton ellis uh yeah friday or saturday or third year dub yeah it looked good um okay i'm playing this one because

i'm being journalistic okay borgie so i have strength buddy journalistic plus super fan michel can you do it all let's just play michel i don't want to play this one but i'm going to play it because we've got to show both sides. Let's call Michelle from Barry. I just have to say, Sammy, your reaction video to Springer's home run was exactly how every Jay's fan felt in that moment. Absolute perfection. Yep.

Now about the Leafs. Marner was always my favorite, and even though I knew he was going to leave, it still hurt when it happened. Watching the team now, I can't help but feel that his absence goes beyond Jeff's skill. He wasn't only a great two-way player, He was the hype guy, the energy in the room.

It was always the last one off the ice and warmups, the last to high-five the goalie, the guy who looked genuinely happy to be out there. So my question is, who's that guy now? Do the Leafs have someone bringing that same spark and enthusiasm? Or is that something they're missing early in this season? I just want to say, go Jay's goes. I'm so excited.

And talk to you guys later. Bye. or thanks to Michelle from Barry you are no longer allowed to call in and start with anything Sammy Why? Why? This is a nice message.

It was also for the third out. It wasn't the Springer Home Run. Because we get jealous over here. This is my voice recording. They miss them. Yeah, I mean... They miss him. He was so delighted to be here.

He couldn't wait to leave. I get that part of it. I guess the question is, is there a guy who does that? that now and I don't how could we I just feel like it's too early to know that but one thing you have to be is good you can't you know no one really cares if it's like Kelly yarn crock is now brought pom-poms out boy his DJ and sick yeah it's like 12 minutes and okay hold on like okay we don't know we we're not in the dressing room we don't follow these guys after games to team parties or

anything like that but so you tell me who would appear to have that type of personality to to do that for you, J.B. Like, P.K. Suban? Like, would it be, like, would Matthews, because he's the captain, would you expect him to be that guy to bring everybody together at his house and have a Halloween party? I take umbrage with the whole concept. Do you need this? Is this?

It's always been historically a very important aspect of your season. But I would argue that. But I would argue that. But I would argue last year, listen, I think in years, he had the most, he had the most get-together. It was always him. Kipper, on the other side of it, I think leading up until last year,

I would be okay with this conversation. But him, like, with the asking teammates about Vegas and the Four Nations stuff and the tampering, like, I think there was a lot of stuff at the end of last year that was pretty greasy in terms of fans being mad about it. But, like, I do think that they do, they're missing energy.

And, like, say what you will about Mitch, if you're a fan or not a fan, energy is what he brought you know i think in those playoff games we're talking about game five and five yeah the other series and seven where they don't have that energy it's like that's what they were hoping to find this year is how can you find it and god i i will say i'm very very concerned that like joshua does not seem someone no you know no no

gonna pick people up with energy on the ice i don't know i mean tough for us to know in the room steve lorence seems like a really positive upbeat fun guy i don't know so uh can we sneak one more in here Gary from a top of a call, please. The Maple Leafs are bringing out the B and me today. I see that Bobby McMahon is going to be on the top line with Austin, and we're going to see how that works out. But the B&Me is telling me that this bachelor's broken and bereft of beauty hockey team,

and I guess you may guess that this leaves me somewhat bitter. But still, we're coming back to the Bobby's of the world, Bobby Orr, Bobby Ho, Bobby Rousseau, and Bobby Bond. These guys have had great pedigree, and they're all Bobby's. I could even look at Bob Bourne because, you know, of the alliteration effect, and, of course, his championship pedigree, and his relationship with Justin. So, they're bringing out the B and me. If Burubi, Coach Barubi's name was Bob, that would even be better. This team is definitely bringing out the B and me.

Guys, what letters are the least bringing out in you? Fantastic call. B.S. F. A. How about A? Apathy. Thank you for the effort. That was really well done.

Appreciate the effort on that. Anyone else quickly we can play here. Let's go to my boy, Terris from Hamilton. That was fun. Okay. Getting a little worried about the buds this year. Things aren't looking so good. But, you know, hopefully they can turn it around.

My big concern here, though, is I don't know if these guys want to play Broube-style hockey. You know, J.B., last year, often used an analogy about ingredients for a cake or something and talking about Marner's contract and tomorrow's his contract and how, you know, if you pay a different price for sugar, it doesn't make the recipe any better. Well, if you change the recipe, it doesn't turn your sugar into salt. These boys used to try to bake a cake under Keefe, but now it feels like they've been asked to make a, you know,

a real working class hoagie sandwich, something you know about in Hamilton here. And I just don't know if they got the stuff. It's like, yeah, they obviously have the stuff. Austin Matthews is an incredibly talented player, but if the guy doesn't want to play Barubei-style hockey, what the hell do you do? I don't know. I want to hear your guys' thoughts on this.

Do you think they're cut out to make Brubay-style hockey sandwiches? Follow my analogy a little bit further. It's a pretty good analogy. It's a great analogy. Greg Barubea hockey. Yeah, it's, he makes a really valid point, and one historically has always been around in any decade in any era, is that are the players and what the coach want on the same page?

Are they aligned? Do you have the roster that fits the way the coach wants to play? Here's the biggest problem. So I think it's a great question, is if you had this roster, what would be the best way to maximize it? Because I'm not sure it's fancy, dancy, two-touch passing either. No, it's not. You know, but I'm also not sure.

It's almost like, you know, different parts of the lineup need to be doing different parts, different things to have success. And that's a challenge. And if you look at the lines from today, you would say that he has really trying to find different parts of the roster. Making a hokey cake. Boy, is he ever. I do agree with the caller that at times,

I believe that Craig needs to be a little bit more sophisticated with what he's trying to get them to do. And, I mean, we hear pucks in deep. We hear pucks to the net. Direct. Right? Straight lines, direct, predictable. I mean, guys, we've been covering the Leafs a long time now.

You know, even before. we got together on our show like it was when when when Kyle Dubas first came on board it was regroups oh my God the regroups oh my God the regroups drove me crazy

and it was like puck possession regroups don't give it away one of the most dangerous teams on the on the rush it was the most distinct stylistic change that I can remember in the NHL so we went from that

to this Is there a middle somewhere? Sure is. Yes is the answer to that. Yeah, I just don't think you can thrive in the NHL today when you give the puck to the other team a lot because they're so good on their first touches. So when you go back on a retrieval,

sometimes you've got to find a guy. You can't just bang it off the boards all day and to go in a battle up by the blue line. Sometimes you need a little slip underneath. Barubi referenced the one and done. a lot. Offensively. Offensively.

One and done. And it's like where's the secondary cycle? Where's the drive to the net? It just seems like even Matthews misses the net and it's out. But that's the one and done he's talking about. There's nothing sustainable. They're not winning back rebounds.

They're not winning back their missed shots. Got to find a way. All right. Thanks for watching. We got Blair and Barker next.