Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: On the Roster Bubble

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to the Leafs preseason game against the Red Wings and discuss who's still competing for the team's open roster spots. They dig into the outlooks for Easton Cowan, Steven Lorentz, David Kämpf & Calle Järnkrok. Should the Leafs give Cowan a nine-game trial? Later, former GM Gord Stellick (30:13) weighs in on the Leafs' offseason changes, Nylander's move to the middle, Max Pacioretty's upside, expectations for Chris Tanev and much more.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliate.

All right, let's kick off the Leaf Hour edition of the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. I'm Nick Kiprios. He's Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee. Derek Brandeo and Jake the Snake Schultz. We are live on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus. And remember, you can always download us if you can't catch us live wherever you get your pod.

And at some point between now and July, I'll remind you to text us at 590-590. And Sam needs to work on his reads apparently from the first couple of tries already and it's early it's still training camp for sam getting some uh it's okay some negative feedback about me texas at 590 590 and and and let sam get back on the bike gotta get his feet under him have you ever seen someone at camp come in and your coach just says, you got to do extra. Like you got to do an extra bike ride after the sessions. Maybe that was you.

No. Showing up in shape was never my issue. I won awards. Did you? Were you top of class? Yeah. And they used to be cash awards. No joke.

In Philly, they'd give you a trophy the bob clark strength and conditioning award oh yeah and and took great pride in that wow yes i'm not surprised yeah pull-ups push-ups pull-ups dips did doug mcclain ever tell you the mike earner pull-up no training camp story no in was? Is he coming on this week? I don't know. Are we doing a Friday off the rails so early? Yeah, we are. He's coming on.

He's your bud. I don't know. He said he might want to come on tomorrow. We'll save it for Doug then. I do believe that he's coming on. When is today? Thursday? It's tomorrow.

Tomorrow he's coming on. Okay. You're the producer. Remind us to ask Doug about that. Okay. Okay? I will remind you. Yes.

100%. 100%. All right. Are you pumped for today? Not only do we have the first hour Leaf edition and our second hour nationally, where we'll welcome in Steve Alligat. Yeah.

How can I forget? I don't know. I don't know. I'm like, who did you book? Who did you book? Valley, but. Valley's like one of our stars on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. I love watching you guys when I'm on.

We have a Valley job. We have two superstars on the show today. We do. Two Real Kipper and Bourne superstars. Gord Stelic, of course, but he's us. He is. He's us. He's more us than those other guys.

Yeah, it's almost like you treat the ones closest to you, you know, with maybe not enough respect sometimes because we just see him as our family. Fresh off their Dante's fiesta. He's one of us. Okay, so that'll kick us off, Gord Stelic, in about 25 minutes. Sorry, where'd you get that drop, Derek?

That's a good one. Which one was that one? Can we have that again, Derek? Oh, sorry, I put you on the spot. Derek? That's a good one. Which one was that one? Can we have that again, Derek? Oh, sorry. I put you on the spot. Fresh off their Dante's fiesta. If Dante still exists, we could use them to send a fiesta to the room here. Just to give you some quick background on that, you know, Gordon and I used to work sports net many moons ago and uh he couldn't function unless

he we ordered from dante's and he got the fiesta like he was a different person extra peppers it's gordon Yes. And the garlic bread and all of it. And then he'd squeeze in a Diet Coke. Poor Gord. Okay, so are you excited today? Not only do we have our show here, but we're working tonight nationally on a Leaf Detroit game where I don't know how many stars we'll see but we're

gonna see some guys fighting for some spots i mean you may think i'm being sarcastic here but i am very excited i love this stuff i love these pre-season battles for spots you know i talking about nick robertson for a week straight at least it's not talking about the core four which is fun so yeah i like it you know we're gonna see more from cowan more for patch ready more from the guys you and i one of the things we talked about doing the broadcast tonight was writing down our opening night lineup this matters tonight this this has impact into what the leafs will do yeah i have always said that in the preseason i like the road games way more than i like the home games because i don't really need to watch through my hands with where the stars are playing and these meetings

can't have two preseason goals in the past 10 years i don't i don't couldn't tell you one i think he scored on carrie price maybe in his first year and i was like wow that was sweet i don't want to see him again until the regular games start so i like the road games i like seeing patch ready out there i like seeing these guys that are fighting for jobs so the road games are way better so we don't have to watch nick robertson speared knee lander into somebody's knee again tonight i've had a dozen nhl training camps in which i participated in nhl exhibition games in all of them and i cannot recall a training camp like this one where so much talk is about revisiting,

are we, what are we doing here? The makeup of minor leaguers against major leaguers, road games that teams aren't sending their stars. So the talk about the structure of preseason even existing. The structure of it, all of it needs to be apparently revisited by the NHLPA and the NHL. I don't know if the needle will move at all, but I can't recall ever so much polarizing talk

about stars being hurt or having... Who's the team that's over in in uh in chetia uh new jersey and buffalo so they play tomorrow one new jersey's got their a team overseas and they're playing here it's like against the rangers the other night your team's there how are you exactly who is on there and it actually is not right why do i want to play against this team that's pretending to be an nhl this is an nhl preseason game and i do think that you talk about the injuries i think a lot of i don't know if there's any validity to this but it's something i've been thinking about when you're playing the stars at home like for example what happened to uh line a on saturday night you're playing the stars at home. Like, for example, what happened to Line A on Saturday night.

You're playing the stars against the road team who is the quote-unquote non-stars, the Marley guys, the ECHL guys. I mean, you guys have both played enough hockey in your life. It's more dangerous when you're playing against bums like me than it is when you're playing against people of your own skill level. It creates a dangerous mix where you're having these ECHLers play on the road versus these stars at home.

It's a weird thing. But I would say it's only fairly recently that NHL teams seem to have agreed on a structure for the preseason where it's bad guys on the road, good guys at home. You know, three years ago, yes. Five years ago, I'm not so sure. It only seems like the last few years where teams have said, you know, there's going to be this sort of duality of teams rather than it used to be, let's get everyone in a couple games and off we go. It's the plan.

There is a plan. And again. Leafs came out hot with their first roster. To your point where Patrick Laine is coming through the neutral zone a thousand miles an hour and he meets up with a kid who probably was like scared to death flat-footed like a deer on the highway doesn't know how to react never seen a guy quite like this and and and needs a reaction you know i mean even patrick liney should have known better like it's an

exhibition game like what are you doing you You're going 1,000 miles through the neutral. First of all, hey, Montreal Canadiens, I got news for you. The guy's a shooter. I'm not sure. I don't want him coming through. I can think of a few more players on your roster I'd rather have come through the middle of the ice 1,000 miles an hour than Patrick Laine. You are a shooter my friend

you are not a carrier i mean this does steal from the national hour but he he said uh you know that he he blames himself for the incident basically right is that i mean that's paraphrasing but but but put uh put a reversal on that incident and a Montreal Canadian standing flat foot takes out Marner or Matthews, what would the uproar have been in this town? There would have been some. No doubt about that.

Oh, man. So my guess, Kip, is that they're going to go to 84 regular season games and take away three preseason games or something like that. So the guys play one less total game. Yeah. But owners are going to want two more. Some guys like it.

Some guys don't. You mentioned yesterday's show, Connor McDavid. I want to play more. Yeah. Like, well, Edmonton's like, How about Joe Wall? Is he playing tonight? No. It does affect your product if you play less in the preseason. Like, you know, I'm a huge NFL fan.

I watch every Sunday. The first three weeks of the NFL, they're like borderline unwatchable. Like, it's just the product is not good because the first three weeks, everybody's like sort of playing their first game, getting their first reps. The first two weeks of the NHL season, generally, you know, it's not as great a hockey. It's a little bit more like preseason. So the less guys play in the regular, in the preseason,

the more it affects your regular season product. So it's a give and take, but like, who remembers the first two weeks of the season anyway? So we'll just get through it. We'll see. Most fans don't even know. We'll see a bunch of three and a half, fourth liners battling out tonight. And Saturday night, we should see a bunch of three-and-a-half, fourth-liners battling out tonight. And Saturday night, we should see a pretty darn close lineup

for Craig Berube Saturday night for the back-to-back against Detroit going into Wednesday night's home opener. Yeah. Tonight's Leafs decor is Kalkanen, Matanen, Myers, Niemela, Refai, Weber, and Lilligren. Lilligren is the only one in the group who is likely to be in the opening night lineup. Maybe Refai makes the team, but this is their AHL decor, essentially.

Don't read into anything. What kills me is Lilligren here, and not to get ahead of the show, he's not even on Power Play 1 tonight. He's playing with the AHL guys, and he's not even the top Power Play. Niemela is going's not even on Power Play 1 tonight. He's playing with the AHL guys, and he's not even the top Power Play. Niemela is going to run the top Power Play unit tonight. So, like, what does Brewby... Like, anyone else noticing that Lilligren's getting treated

like an AHLer here? But Lilligren isn't in the plans to run any Power Play. Didn't they try? So don't give it to him. Give it to the young kid that could still build some confidence up. I mean, I don't know if... That's where it's coming from. Then it's the old, what would you say you do here for Lilligrant?

What is the game state where Berube's like, it's Lillie time. Get him over the boards. This is Lillie's sweet spot. He's a 5'6". Not defense. He's a 5'6". He's mid and he's a 5'6". Not really PK.

Kind of does PK because you need to do something just a serviceable depth guy so when you're up or down three you want to put him over the boards no no i just he's sometimes sometimes you guys sometimes you got to shut down your your third pair i'd rather have a guy who does a thing, who kills penalties or hits someone or... Well, maybe that's... At least Timmons does something. He's an offensive back. That'll be a hock and paw when he's healthy.

That would be great. Okay. I'm on board with that. I'd rather have Timmons, who you say, put him on the power play at least. He's got a noticeable... But between Morgan and Ekman-Larsen, the power play's going to get looked after.

And you're fourth forward. Yeah. So you're fine there. You don't need to have him believe that he's this close to getting a chance. Right? Just give me a chance. He's getting no chance. Lilligren still in my opinion they probably

like to get rid of him like to get rid of his three million dollars but you can't it's hard yeah yeah i don't think you can early in the season but a couple of injuries for the other thing too is the right shot 25 what are the right shots do you have tan of hawk and pa but you don't know when he's gonna be ready to rock so can't count on that guy no that guy is nothing but uh a cherry on top if you can keep him healthy till spring well then they need someone else right what about uh this philippe myers he's he's played a sneaky 200 nhl games or something he's six foot five he's only i want to say he's 20 i don NHL games or something. He's 6'5". He's only, I want to say he's 26 or something. No?

Not ready. He's just not ready. 26? He's not ready now. He's like an avocado. You got to get him. There's like a three-month window he's going to be ready, and then, ah, he's old now.

You can go by and pinch him a little bit. No. Too ripe. Still too green. Too ripe. bit no too right still too green too right um so then really all the significant potential changes are up front so how many spots are legitimately open for how many guys i'll start with you jb well you know looking at the roster tonight the guys who are in it there's some fringe guys so cowan's playing grabenkin's playing yarn crock camp lawrence

mcmahon alex nylander max patch ready robertson that's the alex steves so amongst those guys there's probably what three spots or something available it could be yeah something like that yeah so patch ready he's gonna get a chance robertson's gotta make he's not on any bubble at all patch he's starting patch is gonna start robertson to robertson's got to make the change. He's not on any bubble at all. Patch is going to start. Robertson too. Robertson's in. You're that full. No, I would say that he probably would start.

But you got to also remember, they do have a salary crunch. They have guys hurt. You're going to finagle the salary cap to the point where you may not have to send anybody down right away so you know connor dewer for me is on the outside looking in he's hurt yeah but he's close he's skating and he's hurt you'd probably want to keep him hurt for salary cap reasons to start. But to me, he's behind Holmberg. He's behind Nick Robertson. He's behind Cowan for me.

And I don't even have Cowan in the lineup. That's a good, I mean, we've done now we're on to day three here. And I think one of the biggest talking points heading into this camp. Cowan had a chance to make the team it felt like. Yeah, I think a lot of people over the summer, listen, I had a lot of these conversations over the summer while you guys were golfing. I had a lot of conversations about it. You were.

Listen, I was on air every day. But a lot of people, the Cowan thing was a huge, huge conversation. And i think by all accounts it hasn't been the strongest camp for him like has he jumped out to you in any of these games or you've been kind of blown away his best game is when he got to play with you know max domian and mitch marner where you'd want him to be good in that game but it's been a big talking point i don't know what you guys thought anyone you know to even have a chance needs at night tonight he needs two and one it's kind of hard because he's coming off such an

amazing unexpected camp last year and then he goes right through and becomes chl player of the year and has this amazing run in junior hockey and doesn't even go back to training camp, even though he's eligible for his third year or fourth year. I'm not sure if he was an underage or not, but whatever it is, he's got junior eligibility. He bypasses London's training camp. He trains with the guys all year. He's living with the players.

Is that right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, and he's saying to himself yeah i'm making the team this year so it's it's hard it's hard you can it's it's easier to sneak up than it is to manage high expectations and now he's had high expectations and then early in training camp you can see sometimes he's like, you know, this may have worked in junior, but it's not working here, so I'm going to get it out of the game, and I'm going to try to do this.

And he looked like he was caught a lot of times, which he admitted himself when he spoke to the media. And now I think in the last game, game and a a half you're starting to say hey you know this stuff that i i could do in junior i i still need to try here at times so you can't show the game too much respect you know you need to still do you and figure it out that's that's where he is right now but right now nick robertson looks a little bit more seasoned than him, as he should. Sure, he's 23.

Exactly. With experience. So does that mean that you can find a way to keep Cowan up here and spend a couple of weeks? Does that make sense? If he's not in the lineup, does it make sense to keep Cowan around if he's not playing? It's does it make sense to keep Cowan around if he's not playing?

It's not a terrible idea. You know, I know I've talked about it a lot with you guys, but when the Marlies kept around, what's his name? Marchment. Mason Marchment, who's now with Dallas. He didn't play games for the team. They didn't think he was ready to play, but they just put him in the gym. He was around the team talking systems.

They just built up his body, got the pro experience, and eventually kind of… But he's still a still he's not a chl who marchman no it's easier to do that with a guy like marchman than it is cowan no but marchman was at the time 19 20 years old when they did that and for with zero expectations right zero zero expectations but i, and I thought you were getting at the point that maybe it's not bad for Cowan to be around and learn from. I'm not sure how I feel about it. Ultimately, the kid's got to play. He's going to play nine games, I bet, this year at some point. It doesn't have to be games one to nine.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure. The roster for the Leafs is we're trying to win today right and I don't know if you can buy that sort of time for them maybe you could have

three or four years ago but not now there's got to be a sense of urgency to get guys in their proper place and learn a system like i expect some ugly hockey out of the toronto maple leafs to start i really do uh i think i think they're trying to they're there i think the first 15 20 games maybe just to try to kick some sheldon Keefe habits or their own habits

and bring in Berube's habits. If you're Berube, you're probably looking for moments where they mess up to capitalize, to make your point, to say, you know, it's not how we're doing it. You know, watch the video, sit some guys down, do those sorts of things. Why don't we stay on Cowan just because we have some Berube clips on where where he thinks he's at why don't we start with uh the first one just how close is cowan okay how close is he to count well he's a good player like he he's he's there you know um he's gonna be in the game tonight so we'll see how that goes

uh he's there yeah i saw him for breakfast today. He was actually there. Has legs. Having breakfast. Going to play. And, you know, he's a good player. That's not for today. Chief, why don't you just pack his bags and put him on a bus back to London right now?

How about we make a clip, too? Maybe a little more electric here. What are you looking for from Callan? Well, listen, he does what he does with the puck and make plays. He's very good at that. He's a good player, offensive player. He's got to be responsible defensively and manage the game. Let's just admit it right now.

Kippers, Clippers is dead. Let's all take a moment, hang our head, moment of silence. You know what kind of long year we're in for with those clips? It's just something that we have. We looked at and watched. We're going to have to have a little sit down with them. Our show is cooked. This is a tent pole of our show.

We sit here and we parse through all of Sheldon Keefe's word salad for 25 minutes every day. It wasn't good. This is not St. Louis. Do you want to cover the devil? Listen, Keefe used to do in the morning, he would do 13 minutes in the morning.

Like 13, between 8 and 13 every day. I would cut all the tape. I know it all. But you couldn't shut him up if you tried. Bruby spoke for a minute and 37 seconds. Oh, no. Couldn't get 100 seconds. It's over. Got 97.

It's over. It's over. So do we need any more proof that Cowan is not ready for Craig Bruby? Or Craig Bruby's not ready for Cowan is not ready for Craig Bruby. Or Craig Bruby's not ready for Cowan. Outside of people wanting a shiny new toy for the Leafs. Yeah, what is he showing that makes you think he's going to? But like, why does it matter if he's on the team? Like, you have enough good players.

Like, the role he's going to be playing on the team probably isn't one you want him playing anyway. You want him going out there, touching the puck, feeling the puck, scoring tons of goals, playing for the World Junior Team. one you want them playing anyway you want them going out and they're touching the puck feeling the puck scoring tons of goals playing for the world junior team cracking the first power play unit i just people are so desperate to for the new thing where it's like oh this cow and this cow and it's like well just let them go play in junior this is actually the end of the world major perks of having a good team is that your good players like that go get better yes handle the puck and play 22 minutes a night

instead of sitting on the bench and playing 11. He is going to be a go-to guy for a top 10 ranked CHL team that's going to light up the OHL like they do every year. And he's going to be the go-to guy, probably be the captain of the world junior team. It's fine. It's totally fine.

He's a kid. Just let him go. The amount of Cowan conversations I've had to have, it's like they have lots of great players. Do you want to do the next Berube that wants the approach? This is a really good one, too. It's a really good one. Clip three, yeah.

Well, I think some guys that are in the game today, we're looking to see what they can do. They're right there. We've got decisions to make. So that game today game today for me they're going to go against a good lineup and uh you know see how they perform i mean it's nothing he said nothing that's a guy but you know they're right there we've got decisions to make so, all right, boys. This is as old school as it gets for a head coach. I got to tell you, from a content perspective, horrible. Devastating even.

From a coach of the least perspective. But I will say this. Perfect. We actually need him to, like, get pissed off. And it'll get a lot more entertaining. Well, the thing is is he's not going to go 82 games saying nothing there's going to be lows no for sure there's going to be games where he is not filtered to the degree he probably should be and we'll know didn't he say something

after the first preseason game that was like we got a lot of work to do like he was he was somewhat critical after the first game so here's the. What he's saying is the truth about all this stuff. What's the plan for the next two games? Play the guys and see what happens. Get through it healthy and start it on October 9th. There's no grand strategy. We're going to see how these guys do and pick the best ones next. It's kind of how it's worked for us.

But when you had Sheldon who couldn't shut up to this, it's an adjustment for us. There's a saying, boys, you don't know what you've got until it's gone. You wouldn't have him back for Ruby in a... Oh, no. But from the contact perspective, I would. But from a coach perspective, no. So I've got Lawrence.

Lawrence? Lawrence. Lawrence. Okay. I'm going to get used to that yeah lawrence lawrence i've got steven lawrence starting wednesday night you do i do what do you like uh he's big very he's big and i think he could understand where his role is what his lane is he can get in the way of people he's not the best looking skater but far from he's not slow the worst yeah so i i think he's i think he's a perfect guy right there yeah it's like that thing you've been looking for when you look at your fourth line and go can we just

get like a big guy who hits and kills penalties and he's like sure well i mean one of the tent pole thing that you guys have talked about forever was with the Leafs bringing in these older stars to play on the fourth line where you're like, you know, yeah, you're fourth liners now. And then they're Brian. They're like, sure, buddy. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Wait till I get the puck. Lawrence is just a big, tall, penalty-killing fourth liner who knows he's a fourth liner, knows his role, knows what he's supposed to do. Like, there is value in that. Like, was it Luke who did the article with him? He basically said, Lawrence had comments where he's like, like you know you're not picking the best players you're picking the right players he's basically saying that's why you're picking me yeah you know because i'm gonna go i'll be the six foot four 220 pound 28 year old yeah who's gonna do the things you want

to do and not complain that's elite self-awareness right there oh so nice i'll wear people i think um you know david kempf is a guy that I think in a perfect world they like to unload. You do, eh? Yeah, I do. This is true centermen. I know, but Holmberg can go in there and do it at a fraction of the cost. Probably not wrong. But he's the one thing that you got to be sure of that, you know,

over long stretches at homework can actually do it. Camp's a natural centerman. And there's a question between two and three, right? One's okay. And if you lock in camp there, you, you think he's okay too,

but two and three in the middle, what's it going to look like? I don't know. No idea. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. three in the middle what's it gonna look like i don't know no idea nobody knows nobody knows so that's a lot of money two four even yarn croc that's the guy yarn croc makes yarn crocs a lot of money too but he's reliable love you love him i love the way he plays like you can find a guy to skate up inside on the left wing super hard and look like they're moving really fast and like hit the end glass with a wrister anywhere and less for two and a half million dollars like i you know he is a conscient excuse me a conscience he choked up about it so yeah

that's why the thought is if it's going to be willie and max you probably have yarn croc running shotgun there you need to grown up with them if i had my choice between keeping Yarncroc or David Camp, there is no question in my mind I'd keep David Camp over Yarncroc. No question. I think I would too. I think Yarncroc is... I get the Yarncroc experience. This market is so hard on guys who don't make nothing or a lot.

Like, heaven forbid you're Alex Kerfoot and you make 3-5 and you earn it. Oh, here we go with the Kerfoot. It's not the market and it's not the leaves it's it's how teams are constructed today it's just everybody does it there's no middle class there's no middle class well they shrunk the middle it's either big or next to nothing interchangeable pieces you just got to make sure they're serviceable that's all i just think of when i'm building a lineup i look at guys who you're like everywhere i put this guy it makes me feel better and you know doing that in the minors with zach hyman with connor brown it was like every line that guy is on i like that line i feel that way about camp and yarn croc maybe they should

play together you know maybe yarnkrok should play some fourth line or third line or whatever you want to call it. But, you know, and I've said the opposite about Max Domi. Everywhere I put him, I'm like, ah, I have trouble with that there. That doesn't quite work. I like the guys that make you feel comfortable, and those guys make me feel comfortable. They're my security blanket guys.

All right. Anything else on the lineup? Well, we got two big topics. The future of the president, the team getting bought by our company, some things we were just going to touch on, but maybe we can save those for another day. Yeah. All right.

Yeah, because it's probably a bigger conversation. It's probably a bigger conversation because there is changes, big-time changes up top and a lot of question marks for sure but i'd like to review what those are we'll flush that out uh when we have more time all right you want to take a quick break here we'll get uh gourd stellick former general manager with the toronto maple leafs and now one of our go-to guys on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Back after these words. Hey, it's Matt Marchese. And I'm Mike Futa.

We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world. Weekdays at noon. It's the Fan Hockey Show on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. Derek, shut me down. I'm talking and you don't go until Derek gives you the green light you saw me eating chocolate did you want to turn the mics on Nick Caprio, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee

now I know we're back you know how I know we're truly back Stelic-tricity that's how I know we're back there he is Toronto Maple Leaf analyst for Sportsnet 590 the fan and former Electricity. That's how I know we're back. There he is. Toronto Maple Leaf analyst for Sportsnet 590, the fan and former GM of your Toronto Maple Leafs.

He's wonderful. He's talented. Put your huns together for the lovely Gord Stelic. Gentlemen, does Derek say it's okay to go? You're green lit. How you Gordo refreshed refreshed I'm refreshed I'm good I'm all set to go you know good summer um this is in the hockey world Kipper and Justin like the best time of the year in some ways is the playoffs for 16 teams but right now all 32 they truly believe whatever their best upside is they can achieve it so i always like this time of year and i feel the same thing getting back getting back on the saddle doing all this stuff okay um if we were to go back to moments after the Boston Bruins beat the Toronto Maple Leafs in overtime game seven

and you had a vision what the Toronto Maple Leafs lineup or world would look like going into game one of the following season would you say that you're you're surprised or underwhelmed or overwhelmed at what transpired between losing game seven and where we are today? And I include the goalie or the coaching change, the free agents, somebody's got to go superstar narrative. Where are you going into Wednesday? I'm satisfied, but I'm not overwhelmed or I'm not underwhelmed. I really liked that team last year. Like collectively, we look at a bevy of what, seven? I don't count the first of the eight years, the loss to Washington.

But since then, it's pretty well always been a playoff disappointment. But you look at how they battled last year, seven games, no Matthews, no Nylander in some of the games. The margin was quite small. But again, they didn't find that margin to make the difference. The other team made the difference. But I found so many positives. Joe Wall being developed as a goaltender. The way Max Domi filled in and had to play up in a different role.

I was hoping they could keep a guy like Bertuzzi. I know they couldn't keep everybody. So I wasn't expecting a ton of changes. I wasn't expecting one of the Kingpings to be traded. I never thought Marner nor anybody else was going to get traded. So I liked that team the way it ended last season. They're not a Stanley Cup favorite, I wouldn't say, but they're certainly in the mix.

So I'm satisfied with this team heading into this regular season. Let me ask you a crucial question about the vibes. I want to get your feeling of this team. You know, Tavares has handed the captaincy off to Matthews. Berube has come in and he's a little bit more blunt force trauma than Sheldon Keefe with his more lawyerly answers. You know, things are different. Tree Living, we're two years into his time now.

How do you feel about the feel of this team? Are you okay with, you know, the energy and where it feels like the Maple Leafs are at? So, okay, yes, those kind of changes. Okay, would they have made a difference last year? No. Sheldon Keefe had a great run as a coach here. Yeah, he really did a solid job. And John Tavares as a captain, you know, certainly commendable. At some point, it was going to change. But, you know, Justin, what I liked was, okay, no room for error. And I'm actually looking, Skippy and I still do columns

in the Toronto Star. I haven't done one yet, but I'm thinking one based on that great Roger Federer quote last June at Dartmouth University when he said, look, I want 80 percent of my matches, which doesn't surprise us, but I only want 54 percent of my points. You're kidding me. Fifty four percent of your points. But that showed that kind of margin. And the Leafs need to get that 54% to get like 100% playoffs satisfaction sometimes. So whatever little tweaks they're putting, if Ruby can make a bit of a difference to this particular team, if saying Austin may be a year early, look, this is your team, whatever, let's take it now. You don't want you to be the lead jockey. If that makes even a little bit of a difference to attain that 54%, then that could be a huge difference.

Like, if they get that, if it's not, if it's somebody else seizing the moment like David Pasternak did, and he did it with a couple of guys like Marner and Riley getting outmaneuvered on that particular play, well, the Bruins go on, have a great playoff. Jim Montgomery keeps his job. David Pasternak was told after game six, you got to play better. And at least this year, they're telling the Leafs that. Starting with Sheldon Keefe. It's not acceptable to keep exiting in the playoffs.

You don't have to kill him. You got to get the 54%, not the 46%. Thanks for giving me a great idea to write an article for the Toronto Star. Oh, you did it already? Washburn and Brandon, yeah. I was going to steal it. I was going to steal it. I was going to steal it. In terms of bookending the center ice position,

we know Matthews is locked at number one. We think that for the time being, Camps got the lock on number four. Where do you see two and three playing out okay here's a big difference maker because he did that last year with willie for about one day and when ryan o'reilly came the same thing you wondered where was he going to play who was going to move to the wing and they did that unfortunately got injured as well and i think part of what the whole john taveras thing and he's been very good or seems to have been very good accepting this particular kind of role, is the understanding is if you're going to play strength up the middle,

then, you know, John Tavares might have to get used to being, quote, a third line center or, you know, add Nylander, put him in the middle if that's the best option. Let's see what Willie Nylander can do at center. You know, elite players generally like to play that position he's played at before. And if that gives them three stronger lines, which in the playoffs that makes a difference of each line coming over the boards has a presumably less ability drop, then that could be a plus. So I'm just saying, Kippy, I think this year truly anything can go, and if the Willie Nylander situation and they move him to center happens,

you could have Matthews, Nylander, and Tavares in center. But I think in this year, Berube's got a little more latitude to do that move him to center happens you could have matthews kneelander and taveras and center but i think in this year barubi's got a little more latitude to do that than they were willing to go in the past let me ask both of you and i'll start with jb maybe you first why did they bail on willie kneelander so quickly last year you know i think it's a a number of things but i do so i think structurally it's hard when you're a centerman willie i think how far willie is ahead of the play you know when he's creating breakaways he's in behind the d he's getting all this call it cheating yes but he he's good at cheating can you be good that's allowed right

it's when you can skate like that yeah he's a good cheater and i don't think you can cheat back there so i think if you're a coach you just see you're gonna get less offense you're playing in traffic a lot more and then let's face facts they fell in love with Fraser Minton last year the guy had a great camp and so Gord that's part of it for you too is you know is there anyone this year that they're that you could fall in love with but the Nylander thing I think is worth touching on if they if they are going to give it more time than Sheldon did Gord based on what Justin just said, does that make the probability of this working out this time remote? Yeah, it does. Now, first of all, my level of play, it was called goal sucking, okay,

when you play house league at Don Valley Village, okay? It's called cheating when you're in the NHL. I also wonder with the contract situation, he got going really well. It was the last year of the contract that maybe they didn't want to rock the boat. I don't know that, but maybe they wanted to get it clear, is he going to be here in the big picture? But I, and then, yeah, you know, you still got Fraser Minton. He can go down to the American Hockey League.

You got Easton Cowan, who's worth a look. You got, you know, you got Pat Chiaretti, Nick Robertson. You wrote a nice column, Justin, about him. You know, those other particular kind of options that training camp does training camp actually, for me, starts with the regular season. There's really no exhibition. What is it? It's a have against the have not team every night. So you don't get an accurate gauge, you get in shape.

And now you get the first number of games to kind of figure things out about who can stay and who can't stay. And they got a lot of bodies that are capable of staying. So they'll have some, they'll have some tougher decision makes a few games in but you know go back to i think maybe that was why they decided not to go full borehead about willie neilander at center last year so looking at this team though is there anyone else though like the way minton caught their eye last year is there anyone that you've said hey i like I like Gerbanken or I like Cowan? Is there any of these young guys

that are standing out for you? Guys that caught my eye in training camp and then ultimately didn't do it is why I'm broadcasting now, Justin. Okay? If they truly played the way they caught my eye. So, yeah. So it's that old establishment establishment it's for your eyes only

as far as how you think i i just i take it with a grain of salt you know i'm just glad nick robertson you know showed that he's worth a shot he's worth a shot anyway i'm glad easton cowan had that one game to look really comfortable and aside from that i really didn't get a hell of a lot from the exhibition series i know it should be going hey if the next game's on the fan, you got to watch it, all that stuff. But no. No. It took me all but five minutes to start our season four here at Real Kipper. Important to know exactly how Justin feels about Max Pacioretty's chances of having longevity here.

How about you? I don't want to come across as a hater. I just want other people to have his opportunity. It's not about him. It's about the other people. Don't back that up. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, so Justin's going to be the parent

phoning in for Nick Robertson for ice time. I can't wait. 100%. My son Nick's not getting ice time. And that guy, Max, hey, give him a few games. We always are leery to acknowledge somebody can't do it anymore i'm not because i'm glad he had some games or i like the fact he was hitting too you know he was getting some hits max patch ready in one or two games so i still think and on a good team with a really good center he didn't have a good center last year in in

washington backstrom was out because netsoff was out i mean so i still think there could be one more kick at it but to your point justin you can't have blinkers on what works better like for a bobby mcmahon to make it last year that really showed that you know if you're persistent and you seize the opportunity that they'll find a role for you because he sort of came from the back of the pack so i just think that's something about accurate assessment you got a lot of different from the back of the pack so I just think that's something about accurate assessment you got a lot of different options there and I still I don't want to say I'm bullish on Max Pascharetti but I got it as one of those things going into the season to see what happens I mean geez we saw Nick Ritchie 15 games in didn't work David Clarkson

didn't work whatever certain things that look like sure things didn't work for whatever reason and you got to be ready to pivot and adapt particularly when you're talking about ending all these years of playoff disappointments let's talk about looks like a sure thing because everyone's so excited about Chris Tanev coming here and being a part of this team for a while and making Morgan better and shoring up their decor and they're better because of Tanev you know you've seen Muzzin come here and be that for a while. What are the expectations for Chris Tanev? Is he going to be like TJ Brody where just no one mentions him and he just kind of does his job?

Or how does he impact this back end? You know, both the Tanev brothers, I really like it that they were both born the last week of the calendar year. You know, everyone's trying to time their kids to come out the first week of January and all that. And then neither of them were drafted. You know, that's kind of a neat story that, you know, just that kind of way that both went into the NHL and became proficient players. Like, too often we've got too excited about D that really haven't been able to live up to whatever it may be in Toronto.

You've got to love the addition of Kristanov. I mean he a North Trophy candidate no nor nor do we expect that but hopefully again everyone about staying healthy but he can add another spice in the Leafs system like who expected Luke Shen thrive so much when he came with the Leafs in a brief period of time I mean he just had that great run partnered with Morgan Riley and got that big contract with Nashville he hadn't played like that in the other year on the other years in and around his second time back with the Toronto Maple Leafs so obviously like you're getting a core four guy I mean Joel Edmondson played really well last year that guy played really well last year so that's what I'm kind

of thing I'm hoping rather than describing a style of play but being a dependable core four guy on the Maple Leaf blue line. And I certainly expect and believe he'll be that. Craig Berube's talked about duels staying together, and we know Matthews and Marner will start Wednesday night. We also know that Matthew Nyes will start there. Really? Wednesday night. Yeah?

Sure, why not? No, you're probably right. Right? Like, give me somebody else. Max. No. No. Okay.

Now, in the past, we've seen a revolving door of left-wingers. Yeah. And it looks like they're committed to Knives, Matthews, and Marner. And if everyone's staying healthy, what's realistic for you, for Matthew Knives knives to look like? He's not a knife. 82. Nice.

Nice. What did I say? Keep calling him cutlery. He's not nice. Nice. Not nice. Nice. What's realistic for you for a,

for a season for him? If, if everybody stays healthy. Okay. So statistically last year, we had that weird game where austin matthews tried to get a 70th goal right and and i what a hell of achievement and all that i'm just saying so i'm not going to throw out numbers okay what like whatever because it's kind of irrelevant

it's a it's you want these players vying for the consmith trophy at the end of the year i love matthew nice i think it's a great fit and i when he came up the year before last at the end of the year I was the cautionary guy saying I've seen a lot of people everyone's going oh well Matthew Nice Matthew Nice I you know they always talk about someone who's down there they come and hey Stuart Percy on D I don't know whatever and all of a sudden it just doesn't happen here because you got to give it a big long run and see what gives but from the word goal and I'm talking in the playoffs he really

he really really showed he belonged and I really acclimated myself to that style so the other key is that I believe he has it it's kind of like Patrick Hornquist with Sidney Crosby kind of like Michael Bunting not everybody is cut out to play with elite players as crazy as it sounds but not everybody is and Matthew Nice seems to have that. And Nick Ritchie was one of them, right? It didn't work out. But to seize that opportunity. So I'm not going to throw any numbers there,

but I think he's going to be a great fit. And I think this could be a real kick-ass line. Oh, for God's sakes. You throw out some numbers then. Give me a number for him. How many points does he need? If he doesn't score 50 points, it's a crushing disappointment. Minimum 50. Minimum.

But he had a pool or something. Only 70 goals. He goes for 70 goals, Matthew Nice. Breaks Matthew's record. How about that? He's number 23, right? 30 and 30 playing with Matthews and Marner. 30 goals.

Well, you're going to get your apples. But he's a year older and he's big and strong. I don't know what he's tipping the Toledo at. He's a mule out there. He's big. He's strong. He's a monster. and he's big and strong. I don't know what he's tipping the Toledo at. He's a mule out there. He's big. He's strong. He's a monster. He's like 230.

Yeah. 230, 240. Let's focus on the complete package, whatever it may be. He's going to get his apples. He's going to get his points. I don't know. What do you want me to say? 25 goals?

I'll say whatever you want. I like the fit. I like the fit. Well well he could be the left winger they've been waiting for a very long time for yeah that's the hope 100 you were uh talking about looking at the leafs wingers going back to 1967 in our group chat a while ago and i don't i don't know that they've had a ton of elite guys and he could be one he could be one last one for me goaltending joe wall uh anthony stollars are you excited about this duo because you look around the division and it's maybe swayman but it's bobrovsky it's vasilevsky it's tough division for goalies yeah it is it is and even

like you know again we'll quantum leap to the playoffs we'll leave it for now but freddie anderson was a solid goaltender but not a not a great playoff goaltender but we'll leave that for now joe wall in a brief sample has done the job in the playoffs in the now is every goaltender minimum six foot seven now man he's a tall tall guy but i've always been bullish on him i think i've said to you guys a few times when all the hype austin matthews got drafted first overall that friday night in buffalo and the next day we're doing the draft on the fan and the pr people bring around this polite kid named Joe Wall, who I think was taken in the third round. And I just was always impressed, you know, meeting. It doesn't mean you end up being a great player, but I was just really impressed by that meeting.

Loved the way he plays, loves his deportment and stole us. There's two goaltenders in that goaltending carousel around the NHL. You know, the ones that go for a million bucks and move around to a new team like James Reimer does and what have you. But Loren Boswa out of Winnipeg going to Chicago and Stolarz coming to Toronto, that really had great years. I mean, they had solid, solid 1B years, not backup years. So if he can play that way, that gives them a great 1-2 tandem. We'll leave the story of health alone because that's a legitimate concern when people get hurt, but we'll see it

too often. Hopefully that doesn't happen, but I am very satisfied with the state of the Toronto Maple Leafs goaltending. Gord, do we know if the Dante's Fiesta is still alive in this city? I live by a Greek place called Zante, so maybe Zante's Fiesta now. You know, it can't be because we've mentioned it so often. We've never heard once from them. But yes, again, the infamous order that a guy at another station, now Double D,

mistakenly said it was a single order. I ended up getting like a party platter in front of all my Sportsnet colleagues during so, and I almost ate it. That was the sad part. At least they let it go easily and you never heard about it again. I was like falling asleep on the panel on TV because I'd had too many

like whatever they did. 11 soup walkies. We told him if he finished it, we ate for free next week. Hey Gord, love having you back pal. Thanks next week. Hey, Gord. Love having you back, pal. Thanks for doing this. Thanks, Gordo. That is Gord Stelic.

Quickly on Matthew Nyes before we go. He was listed at 6'3", 217 last year and into camp this year he's 6'3", 227. Put on 10 pounds, even bigger. I think he's heavier than that. That might be too heavy.

The thing that Gordo mentioned, he's just impactful in the playoff games that he's played. He scores an overtime winner, not afraid to go to the front of the net. He was one of their best forwards in all seven games last year. I really hope Berube could take him to the next level, get some snarl in him too. Because I think he could...

Beat the crap out of somebody in the Penguins. Who was that? If he can do that two or three times a year and gain a reputation... He's Krunk from Emperor's New Groove to me. I don't know if that means anything to anyone out there, but let me know. All right.

We're just warming up here. We go national next. Steve Allocat, analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG, will join us. You want a breakdown of the goaltenders around the National Hockey League? Can't wait to hear his take on Swayman. That and more when we return to Real Kipper and More.