Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Options Ahead of the Olympics

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee open the week with some trade talk as the Toronto Maple Leafs head into the Olympic break's roster freeze. They look at the standings and discuss the scenarios that might make the Leafs reconsider selling. Then, they reflect on the Leafs' win over the Vancouver Canucks, Morgan Rielly's injury, and why both he and the Leafs could benefit from him getting a 'change of scenery.' Later, Sportsnet columnist Eric Francis joins the show (32:40) to help set the stage for the Leafs' matchup against the Calgary Flames, the hurdles of a potential Nazem Kadri trade, Blake Coleman's market, and much more.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, boys, our last week, before things come to a screeching halt for Sammy's Olympic dream. It's back. Some hockey to be excited about. Oh, come on. We'll have plenty. We got plenty. We got plenty on the real Kippen-born show. Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandeo, right back at you, Ethan, Jazeaga, Boe.

What now? Ja Jaja Gabor. Gotcha. Nickyprio's Justin Bourne and our very own Sammy Mickey Live on Sportsnet 360, 590, the fan in Toronto. Streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. Also available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and our lovely and loyal watchers on YouTube.

You like them. Should we do housekeeping in terms of what we're going to be doing for the show? Yeah, I do that. So if Kip's done the intro, then you're up. So, because the Olympic breaks coming up here, I think we're going until Thursday this week. Yes. And then we're off Friday, Monday, Tuesday. And back Wednesday.

Back Wednesday. There'll be some hour shows mixed in there. There'll be some two-hour shows reacting to some of Canada's matchups. I think they play the Czechia, I think, on the 12th of February, if I'm not mistaken, as their first game. Anyways, I'm not 100% sure on that. But we're going to be. When does the hockey game? start.

I think, 11th. Yeah, I think Canada plays a 12th. So anyways. What day is that? Trying to match up like. What's today?

The second? So it's like a Wednesday. The 12th is a Thursday. Thursday. Yeah. Okay. So yeah. So we're back Wednesday and then we're right into the tournament.

Yes. So some days we'll be doing an hour. Some days we'll be doing two. I don't know it offhand, but we're doing an hour here, two hours there. But yeah. So we'll have three days off.

I'm not here on Thursday. So I have an extra show off. But anyways. You're going somewhere warm. Are you going somewhere warm? Are you going somewhere warm too? Yeah, I'm working on it. Working on it.

So you'll book your flight literally in the morning. Like that's what the kind of cash he's got. No, that's the kind of cash. That's what I'm... Well, I did say cash day. No comment? You should stay and do the bunkus show or something, Sammy. No.

Yes. Put in some refs. Yeah. I need a little break. I need a little break. I'm enjoying this season, but I need a little break. We could send you for a two-week conditioning stint. Yeah.

You know, I could use that. I've been doing a lot of talking. All right. So plenty places that we can start, including Saturday night. The Leafs Against Vancouver. We're certainly going to tee up Calgary and the Leafs tonight. Eric Francis will join us in about 30 minutes.

And top of the hour, we'll throw out our good buddy, L.A. Friedman, will join us as well. And we'll dipsy-doodle towards that trade freeze of Wednesday, 3 p.m. Eastern. So that is in about 48 hours here. We've got trades to make.

Also of note, an updated trade board on Sportsnet.com. I just put out. Kind of leads a little bit with where the Leafs might be in all of this. And that, of course, can work its way into a conversation somewhere between now and the rest of the hour. But can I just read the headline? when I, Kipper at 3.57 p.m. Eastern's like, hey, boys, I got my new trade board out today. I like, how does that not come up to me? I'm like, oh, okay, cool, cool. And then I look at the home page of Sportset.coma where you can go right now.

Real Kipper and Boards Trade Board 3.0. Leaves close to disaster. Wow. That's not the headline. Yes, it is. No, it isn't. It's not the headline. That's literally what it says. The headline is how deep will Toronto's changes go. I'm reading on the website. That's what it says. Open it up and that's something. That's the teaser headline. See, and also see a picture. Okay. I see a picture of John Cooper wearing a stupid hat on the website too.

It's, first of all, when we write, we don't have no idea what they're going to title it. Headlines are in the war room for three hours today. Can you read my first paragraph, please, for everybody that is driving or somewhere that they can't get to what you can get to? Just read the opening. The trade board took a dramatic turn last week when the Toronto Maple Leaf's 18-wheeler really started skidding. It's not yet going right off a cliff, as a former GM, Brian Burke once described the team back in 2012, but it's certainly closer to disaster than anyone expected.

Okay. Is that fair? Is that not fair? Fair, yes. Yes, yes. And so is the headline on Sforza.com, my opinion. Anyways, I love our, I love our boy, Roy Boylan. Oh, yeah, that headline. Full shout out. He's just as good as it gets.

Anyways, have a peek if you want. And we're certainly going to probably pull a few things out of it within the next hour. But Saturday night comment. Oh, stop Saturday night. Break down that second period for us. What did you like? Tell us what you saw. I will say it is really the first time since we've been doing the show where it's strange coming in being like,

do we want to talk about the game or we should talk about where they're at? We got 48 hours till a makeshift deadline here. I got to take coming off the game too, when you're finished. Can you read, go back to my article because this pertains to why we feel like there's no need to discuss anything of significance

from a game to game situation. Which paragraph am I reading here? The second one, right? And where we believe that the Leafs are at right now because everybody, everybody just wants to just I got it. I think that we're going to put,

we're going to see half the team for sale right now. If we look at the standings going to this week, Leifes are on the outside looking in, no different than Florida or Ottawa. Two teams that aren't throwing in the towel yet. If Florida, Ottawa think they're still in it, Toronto will too. So you're trying to prepare us all for the fifth rounder for Luke Shen trade? Tell me something. Tell me something. Do you believe that Ottawa and Florida are still in it?

Or let me rephrase that. I don't care what you think. Do you think they think they're still in it? Yes. Okay. So why would the Leafs feel any differently? Just based on what you see in the standings. And don't tell me because they're way better.

They're way deeper. They got better players. I don't want to hear that. What if that's the answer? On the surface, they are there with those two teams. Well, yeah. They're there. Those two teams are so far out of playoffs, too.

They're eight points out with 27 games left. But we won't see them mailing it in today or tomorrow. Florida Panthers are off back-to-back stand the Cubs. I get all of that. I know you. Trust me, I know all of that. I'm just saying if you were someone that didn't follow hockey closely, but you're certainly a decision maker in a boardroom,

you could be sold on being still in it. You don't watch the game very well? If I woke up. If you woke up. I woke up today. Yes, after like two months of hibernating. And I did in real life wake up today and looked at the standings. And the clearest thought about things I had was,

oh, they're definitely going to play the next two games out before they do anything. Like, they're definitely just going to see if they win the next two. Okay. And let's have a scenario where they win them both. Win them both? Yeah. Split them both or split, you know, the two? Yeah.

Or lose the two. But let's start with winning the two and finishing off with wins in Vancouver, Calgary. Oh, the hotbeds. Can I just say, like, this just as an aside, the only time Kipper will, like, present the positive part is for, like, the negative of them not selling. Like, yeah, maybe the win, you losers. You're telling me that's just cheap. Please tell me that you've won the last three games, and you are, listen, there's some big games tonight.

We'll get into that between Florida and Buffalo tonight. Big one. But before we do that, a ballpark of five or six points behind. Here's the problem. Whether Florida or Buffalo win tonight, you're hurt by it. They're both right there and ahead of you in Florida's case. They're actually rooting for Florida. who is tied with you with a game in hand.

You're rooting for a regulation. But you're not chasing Florida. You're chasing Buffalo. But you're also chasing Florida. You're also, it's again, and I know you know this, the volume of teams. I know. Yes. Not just the points.

So, yeah, I think they're going to play out these next couple games. See what happens. And if they do win them both, they might go, maybe we need to play out the next few games too as we get closer to deadline before we do anything. But like a loss, one loss, one single loss. just is a shift to the kidney of this whole climb up the standing. Can I, you know, this is a tape coming off the Vancouver game, which I know we all poured over the tapes of that feverishly because it was such a big game.

But you were in favor, even not in favor, but we mentioned it about the blow-up scenario. I talked a little bit about this on Lee's talk with Anthony Betrelli after the game. But like, you're ready to watch and cover the Vancouver Canucks for three years if you blow it up? Like, because I watched that team on Saturday night. And that's what a blown up crappy team that's going to be at the bottom of the standings for three years looks like. I don't know about you, Kipper, but I'm not ready to watch that. So they are awful and they have no. More importantly, more importantly than you, I'm not sure, for sure leaf management is ready.

I don't believe the new ownership group as we know it today at Rogers is ready for it. Yes. I don't believe anybody's ready for it. But I just watching that, you know, I, We went through, like here when they blew it up early after the horror check stuff. And, you know, they didn't suck for very long. No. They got really lucky in the draft.

Was it three years, two years of them being really awful? And then they just kind of got Matthews. And it was like, hey, here we go. Here we go. So I just watched that game on Saturday being like, yeah. It's a cautionary tale for me on what blowing it up looks like. I'll also say this, you know, watching, you know, thinking about what like the retool version of their plan looks like,

where they load up and go back next. year, you know, you don't want to trade all of Oliver Ekman Larson and Bobby McMahon and Scott Lott. And these are guys that you like where they look in your roster. You have to have some of these guys as you go back at it next year. They're cut between a rock and a hard place because you're right. To get rid of McMahon or Oliver Ekman Larson. And then you want to be good next year. And you try to replace them.

You go to the UFA list and you're like, I'm not finding this. No. I'm not finding this. So how am I going to get it now? And yet they need second and third round picks and potentially a first round pick more so than any other team in the league. They need those.

For asset purposes or for drafting? Yeah, yeah. Right? You collect them and either you use them or you move off of them and try to regroup. Ekman Larson in particular, who people have brought up trading for a first, whatever. Like,

He's still under control, three and a half million. If you could play him 17 a night instead of 21 a night or whatever he's playing right now. Yes. And you love that. Yeah. You know, and then you still have the chance to move him next year if it's not going well. So I know people said, one of Lawton, one of McMahon, but.

So I refuse to put any more Leafs for what we're talking about right now is the reason why I only have Bobby McMahon on my trade board right now. And where, and stole ours. Yeah. Those are the two. I was pouring through this and boy, there's some sexy names on this list that are somewhat surprising. But the one that's surprising to me is that you don't have either Lawton or all of Recman-Larsen on this list, kept. Those two guys have been big-time discussed.

I know Luke Fox talked to Scott Lawton said he wants to stay and that breaks my heart as a Leaf fan. But not having them on there is surprising for me. For me and Bobby McMahon, I think for the most part, You'd say if we're going to retool, excellent guy to keep, I believe that there's such a demand right now out there for him that they could drive the price up a lot higher than we ever expected. This is McMahon. McMahon.

One of the reasons why he's the most attractive out of even anybody else out there, he's free in terms of the money and the cap. Everybody can fit him in and have no issues at all. Can't say that about Stamcoast or any others. big names with salary coming in. This guy is easy. The other thing going up against the Leafs too is if it does get to $4.5 or $5 million,

is that what I want? No. Right? No. And that's another... To pay them? Yeah. And that's another question in it itself.

And if we can turn one player into a second and a third round pick, and who knows, maybe even a prospect. I don't know how many pieces. I think it's a little overask, but if you can create that type of buzz around him and then on the off chance that someone rents him for that,

and you ask him, hey, you want to be a leaf that badly? I'll sign you back in July 1st. Yeah. You know, I just, I don't think trading McMahon for a second and a third. That doesn't appeal to me. If you can't trade McMahon, then you can't trade anybody. No, and right. Well, yeah.

And like, so is there any chance, say, instead of a second and third, you can get a first for McMahon? Is that just too big an ask? I think there's a few stupid general managers out there. Yeah. So the answer is, yeah, I think it's possible you can find one of those dummies. Yes. Yeah.

You know, then I would have to really think about it. You know, then I think you can say, all right, well, let's just try to resign Lotton, get a first. for McMahon. Maybe we can flip the first for, you know, you start thinking about how to go back at it next year. Again, one of the things that I'm banking on next year is that everything was bad this year, that you get Dakota Joshua from the start of the year that's healthy and that your stars aren't injured and Matthews looked like himself from the start. All this stuff, I think Carlo has potential to have a bounce back season. You know, I think he's had nagging injuries and playing with Riley's been a battle. So, you know, that a lot of the,

I think next year has potential. So I don't love the idea of trading everybody in a cell. I would say with the UFAs in particular, though, it's really easy to sit here mid, I guess start of February. And have like Scott Lott and talking to Luke Fox and say he loves it here. And then you hold on to him past the deadline. You miss the playoffs. And then you go into the offseason and then somebody offers him way more money than you

when he leaves. You know, like, oh, well, probably should have traded them. You know, you better. We've done that a lot here. I know. With Gardner, Van Reimsdike, Bozac, all these guys that did it forever. The best way to cover yourself is get them signed or have something tucked away ready. And it's like I didn't keep you to lose you.

Right? They went through that with Marner and they were lucky to even get a serviceable player in Niqua. But to lose McMahon or Lawton for zero. Can't make the mistake again. Can't make that mistake again. So you better have a really good indication that if you keep Lawton, it's because you're going to resign him. Agreed.

Yeah, so you're getting closer to those conversations. And I think that kind of has to happen over the Olympic break. I think what happens in the next two games will give real clarity in their direction for this year, which I already thought there was clarity. And I still kind of do. I want to be clear. You talk about the upstairs or whoever's making these decisions or having these conversations. I still think the overwhelming feel from Leaf fans is like, what are we,

like we're not even, shouldn't even be having this conversation. Just because Florida and Ottawa seem like they're in it, yeah, they suck too. They should probably be thinking about selling some pieces off too. But just because they are in it, Leaf fans are going to be like, yeah, we're right there. We're only eight points back. I don't know. I think it's a little underestimated that, like, it's not apples to apples here, right? You can look down at other teams and go, yeah, they can.

They can blow it up. They can miss the playoffs for two or three years and feel like they can buy their time and wait it out and work through the draft. I don't believe this market, you know, that whatever it's been in the past, teacher's pension, you know, Rogers, Bell Rock, whatever the case is, no one's ever had an appetite for that here. And I don't think it, I don't necessarily see it,

I mean, tomorrow, where they go. The last time. Like, how did they make that decision to be like, hey, we're going to redo this thing? Like, I don't remember the timeline of that. But, like, obviously somebody. That was right when Shanney came. Yeah, that was when they fired, was it Burkey, I guess,

and Brandy Carlisle and. Horacek. And then Horacek and Steve Spott came in. And then he was the one. And he took a year to survey everything. Right. Right. But by then Morgan was.

Morgan was still, you know, working into his prime. They had Willie. Willie and Mitch drafted your part. Willie first then Mitch? It was Willie first, then Mitch, then Matthews. So it wasn't as if Brendan came in and completely needed to strip it down and then rebuild. They had those guys. They were one lottery ball away from completely reshaping the whole look for the next 10 years,

putting on covers of magazines. This team will win the Stanley Cup based on those three or four guys in a very short window. That's not the case here. No. They were one lottery ball away the year before. And they were sitting on a ton of assets too. Yeah. And they went to go get Tavares on the free agent market.

I can see them doing something like that. You're not seeing, but there is no UFA out there. No, there's not. There's Jason Robertson, if you want to wait two years. Yeah. But there's Alex Tuck. Then you're down to... Panarin's out there, but I guess he wants to sign if he's getting...

Panarin will be done by then. I just... I hope that, like, and you mentioned Shanahan coming in and say what you will about him. But like, he was around the team. He was a... He was the president. who's a hockey guy, who's played hockey, who everyone knows.

Like, I just don't want decisions because there's lots of markets around the league here where teams make decisions on the bottom line versus actually what's going to happen here. And I would worry that there's some, like to try to make the playoffs or when you should sell and it's who's in charge and what, like, I just, I have some concerns where we're at right now in terms of that. And if the best course of action is to look at those standings and be like, We're right there. Go for it. That's a scary thought for me.

Yeah. So I hope they're selling some pieces. Okay. Saturday night. Oh, great. Yeah. Okay. Anything else you want to cover off on that?

No. I mean, Austin Matthews. We were all in agreement. And to your earlier point, we'll see what happens tonight. We'll see what happens tomorrow night. Where's the vibe going into the Olympic break? Well, Morgan's not like.

Before we see anything of significance. Yeah. In terms of player transactions. Prior to the trade freeze. I'd be really surprised to see something. We're going to have Elliot Friedman come up at the top of the hour. He's one of the best out there when it comes to these inside talks. And we'll get his vibe on how fast can we see something between now and Wednesday.

It's crazy that Columbus was in Dead Last and they moved off Dean Eveson. And they were like, we need to be better than we are. Then they added, or even before that, they added Mason Marchmont. and they added someone else. Nine and one in their last... They traded for... They traded Gavrikov to... No?

So then they trade somebody to the penguins. Yeah. Chinikov. Chinikov. Yeah. Who's got like six goals and 14 games or something? Yeah. But anyway, they've won a ton.

Nine won their last 10 and they're now six points out of a playoff spot, which is ninth in the conference. So, you know, a massive turnaround and they're still a good, amount out, but it's funny that the Leafs at no point in this were like, hey, could we go add something? Could we earlier in the year when it's going off the rails? Could we get some support for this

thing and it just never happened? Yeah, I saw Steve Dangle tweeting about it, but it's been 200 days since the Leafs have made a trade. Is that weird? Yeah. Especially with the way that things have been going. I don't know. I don't know if that matters or not, but it feels like a long time. Okay, Saturday night. Plenty we can get into including Willie's return, but it just seems like, I think that The biggest focus right now is the fact that Morgan Riley will not play tonight. We'll not play tomorrow night in Edmonton. Left the game early Saturday night with apparent upper body injury.

I don't know, shoulder. What do we come to any conclusions? We have a couple clips. Let's play, Derek. Let's play clip six, please, on no Morgan Riley tonight. Yeah, for sure. It's a loss for the team, him not being there tonight. So a couple new deal go in tonight.

Myers and Benwale will go in. they're going to have to really do a good job as a six-man unit out there tonight. So top pair tonight, McCabe and Carlo OEL Stetcher and Benoit and Myers, Raffi on the outside looking in. Didn't think it was, but Rify looked like a guy that's played two NHL games on Saturday night. Unfortunately, he wasn't very good. But so they're going with that. They play clip seven on sort of an explanation on Riley's injury.

there, clip seven for... No, it was in game. I know that he went, left the bench, went behind and came back and tried it again, but he could, nothing he could do. But this has kind of been a little bit lingering with him for a bit, you know, that we haven't mentioned. Like, you know, it's been going on for a bit,

this issue. And it's obviously gotten worse. So that feels like a little bit of a life preserver to help out some of the, talk about his play. Does that not? Yeah, sounds a lot like Matthew Knight. Lingering thing. Yeah, well, we know Matthew's been fighting through stuff.

They admitted that a while ago, but they certainly didn't do that for Morgan until after the fact. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, he's, we were saying before the show, like, I almost hope for his sake, obviously you'd like to see him work it out here in Toronto and things go well. but he's had a very respectable career here and great playoff efforts and all that. You really feel the tide turning with him publicly. And if it's not going to go well, I hope there's the solution for him that's positive.

Because right now we're going to do the bit about the stats. When he doesn't play for them, they have a lot of success. I mean, like just in terms of wins and losses, since the 22, 23 season, they're 23, 5, and 1. And over his whole career, they're 46, 21, and 7. I will say that they've also been really good without Matthews in his career. I think it's a similar winning pace without him over his career. But 23, 5 and 1 since 22, 23, that really jumps out to me. Yeah.

That's not a small sample. You know, goals are up and goals against her down and shots four are up and shots against her down and all that sort of stuff. And even this season, when he's on the ice, they're minus 17. When he's off the ice, they're plus 7. Like it's really tough here. And he's personally minus 17. Yeah. Like he is he's got the worst plus minus.

I think DeVarce is up there a little bit too. Well, he's actually been on the ice for 73 goals against, which is the most in the NHL. The second most is McKenzie Weger at 65. So he's been on the ice for eight more goals than the next highest player in the league. Just a ton of goals against. So this is, I would say, an exaggerated version of what people have worried about with Riley. Maybe some of its injury.

Maybe the team is not as good and he eats too many D-Zone starts and plays too many minutes against top comp, whatever. But it's not gone well this year. I don't know. The sample is getting pretty big of them having success without them. Yeah, the top on the team for plus minuses here is Jake McCabe, even with his stretch of minuses that he's had. He's at plus 14.

And then, yeah, it's Morgan Riley, minus 70. These aren't pretty. Holy. I haven't actually looked at this. Tomar. Tavar's is minus 17. Domi minus 16 Micelli minus 16

Going up and down the list But yeah McKay being plus 14 And Riley being minus 17 It's pretty And McKay plays tough matchups You know? Yeah.

If there is one person in the league I'm not even saying Toronto anymore Just one person in the league That could use Just a fresh change of scenery It is Morgan Riley at this point And I don't see

I don't see any other way. He doesn't want to go through another season like this. This is not something that's going to be addressed. I don't believe for one second between now and the trade deadline. This to me is an off-season revisit. They had, he already went through a very emotional summer where he was questioned

and he made it abundantly clear how he didn't want to, wants to be part of the solution. Of course, all that talk about coming back, better shape, lighter. I mean, it had a good vibe to start the season, didn't it? Yeah, it was all there. And he's getting points. There's just not a chance that you can go back to the well again.

You know, I've got two questions. One of them I had to, someone just text me and said, why are you guys so sympathetic about Riley? And that's one question we can answer. And then the other one is, Do you think you can get off that contract? Can I answer your guy? Yes, that's why I brought it up.

Because he's a great kid. Yeah. He's a, he is a, he's an awesome guy. Yeah. Okay. That's why. Just text him back that one because he's a good guy. Yes.

And you know what? We are. We are sympathetic to that. Say what you want. Like it's right. It's wrong. It's business. You're either a winner or loser.

No. No. We still look at people. And sometimes I feel really bad because, you know, in some instances, he's not, he's not supported enough to me. And Oliver Rackmann-Larsons come in and alleviated a lot more so than I ever thought. But over the course of 10, 12, 14 years, was he misplotted? Did they put too much weight on his shoulder?

Did they not have more guys to step up? Could you have not identified a long time ago that he's not a true? number one power play guy. But you know what you do? You keep throwing him back out there. And you keep throwing him back out there. And what happens? People get frustrated.

They watch it. He's not getting the job done. You take him off. You put him on. You take him off. You put him on. And it's like, this is not helping Morgan Riley. And it's not helping your fan base judge him properly.

It's crazy that you can come out of a playoff year where you're like, how about Rasmus Sandin, who's never been on the power play for this team, runs it in the playoffs? And then the next summer, you go, but we'll try it again the same way next year. Like that's, that's badly. You know, and he tries to be accountable. He'll never ditch you. He'll lookie in the eye.

He'll, he's an honest guy. It's just, it's not working out. And he's got to, he's got to acknowledge that. And then the next part is, do, can you get off that contract? Does anyone want that, 7-5 for four more years, I think? So I did leave talk on Saturday with Anthony Petrilli from, Maple Leaf Hot Stove. And we talked about Morgan Riley.

And the team he brought up, which I thought was interesting, is the San Jose Sharks, which, you know, everyone just thinks of this. The Sharks have one defenseman under contract next season. Totally. They have, like, everybody on their decor is a UFA outside of Dimitri Orlov, who has one more year after this one. It's like, that, to me, is a perfect situation for the least at least, where a team that's like, we have all this cabspaced,

leadery guy for our young guys, we have no one under contract anyway. it's not going to cost us a ton. We have a ton of picks or whatever. Or if you want to eat something, get a better asset back. But that, to me, jumped out when I looked at their cap wages page. And are you better if you just get off the contract?

Yes. Like you have that cap space and you just got to find another guy. Is the team better? When you compare to what you've watched so far, I think the flexibility of having that is better than what we've seen for probably 80% of the season. Absolutely. Absolutely. Anything else that we should play?

I think it's interesting they're going back to Wall. They're trying to win. This is a point grind. You're right. Glad we don't talk before the show because no one even suggested that to me until this show. It's like, God, you're right.

They are trying to win still. And then Stolars versus McDavid. Yeah. Everything's great. Well, I know one of the first you're down. Everything's great. I know one person who's happy is not playing at night is Morgan Riley because it seems every time he plays Potterman David,

he puts him on a poster. Highlight really dunked on by Mold Star McDavid. Every game they play, it's like, oh my God, look out. Riley's like, maybe if I back farther off, he won't burn me to line. If I start behind the night. It's a cookie night. Yeah, not good.

Anyways, let's go. Okay, we'll take a quick break when we return. Eric Francis covers the Calgary Flames for us. It's got all the answers. We'll break it right down with Eric Francis. Next, when we return to Real Kippenborn. Dive deep into Toronto Sports and the NFL, the J.D. Bunk is podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome back to the program. It's the Leaf Hour edition on the Real Kippenborn Show. Nickyprier is Justin Boren. Sammy McKee. We all set for tonight. Toronto versus Calgary Yeah, I just wish it was later. So is this another Amazon?

Yeah, that's got to be why. Like they're playing Edmonton 830 tomorrow. Yeah. So what is this eight local in Calgary? Yeah, must be back to back for Amazon tonight. You know, it's going to help us tee this game up. I do. Yeah, Eric Francis, senior columnist Sportsnet based out of Calgary.

Eric, how are you, my friend? I'm good. Everybody in this city is asking the same question. Why are we dropping the pocket at 8 o'clock? But there's your answer. You know, Prime, when Prime took over those Monday nights, that's a window. No one else is allowed to show a game.

So the game gets bumped to 8. It's unfortunate for Toronto fans. It's unfortunate for Calgary fans. It just sucks, but you've got to play the game. Plenty around this game, more off ice than anything that leads the storylines. But it's always kind of fun, eh, when Toronto comes in. the challenge is to drown out leaf fans? Yeah, it's like 50-50.

Like when the Oilers come to town, their fans are loud. But I wouldn't say it's 50% oiler fans. But when it's the Leafs coming to town, because it's only once a year, it's 50-50, like right down the middle. And with every Go-Leafs-Go chat, it's followed by Leafs suck or whatever.

You know, like there's a count. to every cheer for either team, and it's just as loud. It's pretty cool atmosphere. Eric, maybe you could set this scene for what's going on with the Calgary Flames these days. Where are they at? Where's the thinking about their direction right now? Yeah, I mean, they're playing out the string. I mean, you know, all but mathematically eliminated.

You know, a somewhat similar situation to the Leafs where not many people think they still have any chance and they should act accordingly. The work ethic continues to stay intact here. That's been their calling card for years. That's a good sign that even though their seasons lost, the identity is staying the same. And now it's basically, you know, the focus will be on the kids. You know, Matt Bay Gridden is a young forward

who people think is their future star scoring leader on this team. And he's starting to kind of get better and better. He's 19 years of age in the lineup. And Zane Preck returns to the lineup tonight. after, you know, the world juniors, which everybody saw, he played pretty well. And then he went down to the AHL and did four games down there and got five points and looked better and better every night. So can the 19-year-old correct get his mojo going?

And, you know, can he stay in the lineup with regularity from now to the end of the year? That will probably be the focal point starting tonight. Eric, it seemed like it was almost forever the watch on Rasmus Anderson. And that finally came to a head. So, I mean, are we on to Cadre right now? I know the sense is that Calgary feels like if they move them, it has to be an offer that they can't refuse. They also have the wonderful option of holding on to them

and reassessing whatever they need to in the off season. But where do you feel that sits now in terms of the demand of centermen around the national hockey league and Cadry being right in the thick of things? Yeah, you're right. That's the next. Now everybody's turning to, okay, who else are they moving out as part of their ongoing rebuild? Cadre and Coleman are at the top of the list. Like we can talk about Coleman in a sec.

But, Cadry, $7 million a year times three more years after this. That's the problem right now. It's the bit of the quandary that the Calgary flames are facing is, yeah, every contender in the league would love Nazim Kadri, especially since the planes would probably be willing to pay up to half that salary moving forward. The problem is that's three more years. And for a guy who's already 35, a lot of contenders are like, we're interested, but we're not first round draft picks plus plus plus, interested.

And if you don't start adding first rounders plus plus, then the Calgary flames aren't tempted to make the trade. So there's a very real chance that Nazim Qadry could remain aflame from now to the end of the year. And then they revisit in the summer when teams have a little more room and decide they want to maybe spend those three years with Nazim Kahn Kjadri. It's an interesting one. He's certainly someone who they're listening to offers on very carefully. So how has he looked this year?

I mean, he's at nine goals, which is quite a bit down from last year, but 35 points ain't nothing? You know, he's really struggled up late. I've got to be honest. Nassim Kudur for the last, you know, year and a half has been their best player. Their scoring leader, 35 goals last year. I mean, that's incredible. at his age to be setting new standards.

But this year, to be honest, the last 20 games, I think I saw the stats like four points in his last 18 games. And you can't imagine it's because he's all the trade speculation. I mean, he hasn't been connected exactly with rumors, but just the speculation, the overall speculation that he may be moved. And there's a very real possibility of that. Could that be weighing on him? I can't imagine it.

I think more to the point, you know, he's playing with raw rookies a lot of the time. And, you know, he's fared very well with rookies on his side over the last year and a half. But, you know, again, the last two months, he's been pretty invisible. And that's not very much like Nazim Codry. We're used to him being an engine driver and their best offensive player. You're watching and listening to Eric Francis, senior columnist, analysts with Sportsnet based out of Calgary. So Coleman's another one that's drawn a lot of interest around the National Hockey League. He's presently hurt.

How has that affected where the marketplace is for him? Yeah, I don't think the injuries are concerned. They decided to shut him down and give him the Olympic break to come back. If it was playoffs, he'd play right now. But what's the point of rushing him back? So the injury is not something that interested teams are concerned about, nor are the flames. I would be stunned if he wasn't traded by the deadline this year. I think there's more demand.

I know there's more demand for Coleman than any other Flames player on their roster. He's won two cups. I honestly think he's the most complete hockey player I've seen come through here in 30 years. Wow. In terms of him being able to do absolutely everything, be a leader, be a class act, be someone who's great in the community. Like, I just can't say enough about Coleman. And I think around the league, the reputation is as such. This guy helped and was a big part of Tampa winning those two cups.

And I think every team looks for a guy like that. When you can add a guy like that with those credentials and that work ethic, the ability to kill penalties, even play on the power play on the second unit, and he's only $5 million a year. You get him for this year's playoffs and next year's playoffs. Demand is extremely high for Coleman. And I'd be stunned if they didn't cash in on it. So you mentioned that Zane Perek is going to be back.

and like everywhere he goes, he just gets points. And there aren't many defensemen who do that, right? He had five points in four American League games. You know, what is this guy going to be in the NHL? He's going to be Eric Carlson. You know, I'm not going to say he's going to the Hall of Fame, but that type of player where offensively, you know, he'll put up 50 points in the league.

And I'm not predicting that's going to happen anytime soon. He's 19 and he hasn't. been able to assimilate very well at all at the NHL level. You know, because he's in over his head. I mean, the CBA dictates he had to be here this year. Everyone knows he should be in the American Hockey League, gaining confidence. Instead, he's losing confidence in the NHL. So this will be fascinating to see how he plays the final 28 games and 29 games of the season.

But he is very, very offensive, motivated and gifted. You saw it. We all saw at the World Juniors. But he's a player who in his own zone. is an adventure right now and will continue to be adventure for a lot of years, I think. That's going to take a long, long time for him to figure out that end of the game. But offensively, I think a lot of GMs would probably say the same thing that I think Conroy would probably say, if you really ejected some truth to him, is I can take all the defensive lapses if he can help resurrect the power play and get me 40 or 50 points a year.

It seems like they're all set, Eric, when it comes to Inette with Dustin Wolf and Devin Cooley, they've been kind of going back and forth recently. I assume we'll see Cooley for no other reason, maybe, because Wolf's 03 and zero against the Leafs with a save goals against average of 5.39. But outside of that, it seems like it's, those are two great young players to build around. Yeah, I saw the staff the other day. Team saved percentage, their 10th in the league. And that's pretty good for a, you know, a 31st place team in the National Hockey League.

So goaltending has been their strength. It will be for the next many years with Wolf signed a seven more years after this. Cooley just up for two more years, held a bargain at a million a year. You are actually going to see Wolf tonight. I can tell you that. Oh, you get some other crack at it. Okay. And, you know, that was 10 games in a row.

They had alternated goalies because Kooley's been so good. He's basically demanded and they want to take advantage of it. But they decided to go with Wolf because he basically was the reason they won the game the other night. So they're going to give him another chance to break this bad spell against the Leafs today. And Dustin Wolf, you know, I know the stats are terrible against the Leafs, but I don't think many people around the league would tell you that he's, you know, and he's going to be anything but a top five or ten goalie for the first. rest of his career. He's not good.

So let me ask you, what do you think the leaf should do? We've been doing this whole leaf block. Should they sell? Should they buy? Reload, re-tool, rebuild, re-whatever. You know, you've got some experience of this stuff. What do you see? Oh, I got lots of experience of this stuff in Calgary. It's funny, I'm talking to people from the Leafs today and such a, you know, which team would you rather have in five years from now or three years from now?

The Leafs or the flames? I didn't have a single person who said they'd rather be the Leafs. I mean, I think everybody understands the Leafs are in for some significant turbulence to put it mildly coming up. And, you know, I do think that they should, you know, take advantage as sellers this year because this year's season has lost in terms of the playoffs. Are you blowing the whole thing up in Toronto? No, I don't think you do. I don't think you should. I don't think you can.

But I do think you've got to take advantage and get rid of as many of your games. UFAs or anyone you don't see as a core piece moving forward. So I keep saying this in Calgary. Look, they thought they were going to challenge for the playoffs last year after the year they had. They brought back the same roster. And then when it became apparent like nine games in, they lost eight of their first nine. It's an opportunity.

And you've got to roll with the punches in today's NHL. The Leafs were not expecting to miss the playoffs. But now they have an opportunity to do some management that I don't think. like they looked at. So I would take full of advantage of that if they could. And I'll let three know that when I see them later today. Well, you're out. Tell us

how to fix the Edmonton Oilers then. Great stuff, man. Really appreciate your time. Enjoy the game tonight, Eric. Cheers, boys. Yeah, it's not going to be as exciting as Leaves, flames games of the past, but we'll get through it.

We'll get through it. Thanks, Eric. Appreciate it. That is there as Francis. Sportsnet's very own covering the Calgary Flames. It makes it sound like taking your medicine, watching the hockey game. It's not going to be bad. You know, those Westerners are having a blast watching the Leafs right now.

I do feel for my West Coast and, you know, Alberta Leaf fans because you get one chance a year when those teams go through there. And usually for the last nine years, there's been a clear, like, the least are good. These games matter. You want them to win. And now it's like for the first year in a long time. You want to go to the game.

You're getting chirped by these flames fans and you're chirped by Oilers fans. I'm sure in Vancouver on Saturday night, the vitriol was brutal. They hate leaf fans there. But you're like, yay, we won. Crap. Now we're even more in the mushy middle. Like it's a weird. You're kind of reaching that point where like, I don't know if I should cheer for them or cheer against them.

So it sucks to the Westerners that they get that. But have fun. At least the teams they're playing Calgary and Vancouver are also in dire straits. Yeah, I put it a video. on Saturday night after Matthews scored the overtime winner. I don't think they just zoomed in on the sky and he was just sitting there just didn't she Oh yeah, we got it.

That was good or bad. Oh, by the way, he could even have a wide open net. Watch coming up here if you're watching on YouTube or on Sportsnet. Look at this guy. On the left. Thrilled. Yeah. Okay.

There's some happy ones, but I love it. What a. Another win tonight kind of would that completely squash the thought of your article last week about trying to get to the bottom? Yeah, trying to get to the bottom. It's just, I don't think so, no.

You think it's, you think it's, it's legit after the Olympic break? You know, it depends, Kipp. If they split these next two games, so in your scenario, they win tonight, they lose the next one. It's not out of the question, you know, could you go eight and 20 in the final games

or whatever the math is on that? I think it's doable. But I do think it would involve a concerted effort to say, not playing. Nice is the plan. You know, you'd have to do some things. I don't know.

A lot of act of him off. I saw Mike Kelly does fantastic analytic work and works right. We had on the show before. Works on the show before. Works on H.L. Network. Put out like a with the Olympic break approaching a look at teams who are pretty much in and pretty much in trouble. And this is odds run on 2,500 simulations.

At least have a 2.8% chance in making the playoffs. If you make decisions based on that based on 2.8%. What's the expression? Hope is. not a strategy. Yeah. Nostalgia's not a strategy. Is it 24 or 26 games left?

56, right? They've played 54, right? Is that right? Yeah. 26 then? Yeah. That's not right. No.

Oh, God. Don't look at me. 54 plus 28 is 82. Yeah. 28 games left. Give me a number. What they'd have to do in 28 games? I actually think they've played 55 now that I'm thinking my head.

Okay, 27 games left. 27. 27. What I want them to go? 7 and 208. 20. And you're talking about 20 and 7 to make it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, 20 and 7 gets you 40 points, gets you to, what I have, 59 gets you to 99. I think 98 gets you in. No, I think.

The Bruins ends. Probably 96, 97 could get you in. So you could go conceivably take it from 20 to 19 to 18. 19 and 8? Yeah, that's tight. It's two out of three games. So you have to get that stinking hot. And you'd also have to have to have the Bruins and sabers go for a crap too. And the capitals, or sorry, and the Panthers and the senators and the blue jackets. That's why Mike Kelly, Mike Kelly, 2.8%. They have no chance.

They are screwed. I don't know what it was six weeks. Yeah, I know. He's God. I sat in this very chair. And I told you. Money puck, Kipper. That they had it at 20%.

No, no. It was 11. It was 11%. And it was like 14. on. Yeah. I don't know what it was, but the look on your face

when I said it. At that point, it was priceless. At that point, it was ridiculous. But now it's not. They tow picked. Yep.

All right. Listen, I expect them to play as hard as they played Saturday night. Yeah. You know, they're trying to win the games.

They're trying to win the game. They're going to get points. You know, if there's a world here, guys, where neither winning nor losing is the goal. Look at the way they reacted after the win.

You know, it's like... I believe in that room that 2.8 is still something, right? They're still playing for the 2.8. Yeah, no. And they want to believe Matthew Nyes. Listen to him. I don't even look at the standings, but I'm sure we're fine. There's no Larry Murphy.

We don't have a lot, lots. We don't have any gas to take, but I think I could drive to Vancouver. A lot of lots. Our thanks to Eric Francis. We go national next. the one the only Elliot Friedman what did we do last week

we talked about Robert Thomas coming to the Leafs but he didn't tell us how we will ask him how because we got plenty of time for that in the next hour don't go away