Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Out of Tune in Nashville

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee recap the Maple Leafs sleeping at the helm against the Predators in Nashville, Craig Berube's outburst during practice, the importance of experimenting with different lines down the stretch, and how they can extract success out of Scott Laughton. Then, former Leafs general manager and analyst Gord Stellick (32:45) chats about why it's a good goal to win the division, if Toronto is ready to showcase a different style of play in the playoffs, if the change in 'C' has affected Auston Matthews and John Tavares, goaltender decisions for game one, his assessment of Laughton, and the ideal bottom six lines.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right. Well rested weekend for the real Kipper and born show. You guys good? Great. You inching closer to death. No. Oh, you got me buried six feet under already? We're all step by step.

Playoffs! Playoffs! I mean, sorry. I mean, are those... Sammy usually mixes the two together. If you are a Leaf fan, could be inching closer. It does feel like an inevitable march. Wherever you're watching, wherever you're listening, at 590 the fans force at 360 sportsmen plus

Happy to have you along with us Nick. Impros Justin born Sammy McKee Derek Brandeo and Jake the snake Schultz Toronto Maple Leafs Looking good for a while No first period. Okay,. What a what a wrist shot. He is rifling that thing right now. Buddy like it's a like it's like a BB gun to him. It is seven straight 30 goal season. But then the Predators five straight goals. And here we are on a Monday morning and Monday night Where do we Where do we go here? Where do you want to go? Like it depends. It's it's how grumpy do you want to be? Well, I'm not that grumpy

It is disappointing that there's an opportunity here and it still presents itself to win a division which you haven't done yet, right? You haven't. That's the biggest thing that I'm frustrated about. Can you not smell blood in the water right now? Like, why are they not, like you can touch it.

The schedule's in your favor here. Why did it look like Saturday night, like they didn't care about winning a division? I was gonna go back in our group chat to see at what time in the night you text us, and we all agreed with you, cookie night. Cookie night. And I think it was around the time

Lawton tipped in the goal to go up three nothing. And it just felt like it was going to be one of those nights. One of those nights. Everything goes in. And to me, it's like if they're going to smell blood, go ahead and smell blood. Make it a night where you get six. You're already up two or three at that point and you're probably going to win. They didn't score again after that and part of it felt like it was because it felt like it was going to be easy, right? It didn't feel like it was going to be a night where you had to put in the work. They go into intermission, Nice takes a penalty at the end of the first and all of a sudden

Goldis allowed penalty at the end of the first. They score on the power play, start of the second and it was like Nashville mowed them down in that second period. And that's where you're saying like, can't you smell blood? Can't you at least, God, it just, really frustrating with the division sitting the way it is. You want, I talked a little bit about this after the game on Leastalk when I was particularly pissed off

about the result of that game. But you try so hard to not watch these games and make big sweeping big-picture Proclamations about their chances going forward and their playoff stuff and all that God Like if they lose this division by three points, let's say You're gonna look back to that stupid Monday night where they blow a two- league to the literal worst team in the league, the San Jose Sharks, and you blow a two goal lead on a Saturday night in Nashville against what, the 30th

or the 31st ranked team in the league? I don't think they're worse than Chicago. They're probably 30 or maybe 29 or whatever. I don't know, their stats are awfully close. They are real bad. That's an awful team. And dude, like, I get it. One thing, they go in there, they jump you,

they got a lead, like you can't fight back in the game sure whatever but you were in cruise control You were beating them and they just went to sleep and there's been a lot of times this year where there's just been these long sleepy parts of games Anyways, let's get let's get Craig Barube's thoughts on what he saw clip one Derek second period odd man rushes against well two on one three on one we gave up kind of got disconnected in the second period in my opinion and bottom line is that you know we didn't defend well enough because it did seem like you got had a game under control. Well we had a real good first, you know, I don't know. I mean we just didn't, they came out there, they looked more hungry than us in the second period, you know, they were, didn't give us a lot of room but we didn't fight for it

either. Yeah, you gave it to him on a platter. Yeah, and they didn't accept it. So what are the main frustrations? For me, it's one that we've talked about a hundred times this season. Not sure anyone's going to have anything new to offer it, but watching Morgan Reilly defend that two on two with Brandon Carlo where he doesn't pressure the entry even though they have numbers and then he sags way off his guy even though Carlo covers his guy They got they it's what is that? It's simple two-on-two hockey like he can't defend or doesn't want to defend

He's so passive. Well If we if you look if you if you look back at it, I think He's not in great position. think he's not in great position, so he's not in any position to defend. He's skating forwards with the guy. The whole time he's skating forward. Which is okay. You can do that if you close a little pressure.

He was on his way to closing. And I don't know, I mean mean I watched it two or three times and whether or not Carlo should have come over and covered for him or not maybe it's the right play you saw it you saw it a couple times yeah I know your feedback is it's the right play but what isn't the right play between the two of them is like no communication mm No, none, not even. To me, it doesn't look like they called a switch. They didn't acknowledge.

My man, it just looked like they were both unsure of who they had. You know, you can find a number of instances where communication seems concerning. So in the neutral zone, one of the plays, who shoots it in the net on the two on one or three on one for Nashville? There's a, I forget. Keith, Kiefer Bellows? Kiefer Bellows. And there's a pinch with it. It's either camp for, it's McCabe. It's McCabe.

It's either camp for Matthews. It's center that get crossed up and Matthews and they end up behind. They didn't look like they communicated on that one. One of the early days Carlo had the back into Tavares and the two of They didn't look like they communicated on that one. You know, one of the early days, Carlo had the back end to Tavares, and the two of them didn't communicate about the guy off the backside. I feel like it's become a theme from this back end. They have the play in front of them.

They need to be talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, yell, communicate. I put it on those guys that the Leafs D don't seem to talk enough. Help the guys out, let them know who you want to take and make everything a lot easier. That's exactly what I saw. It's particularly on the crossover between Carlo and... You're right that if they called a switch there, it would have been very easy to defend. Really easy. But it's also just you got your guy, I got my guy, you know. But you're right, if you talk, you can play it differently. You need to send that message.

All right, let's get Craig Ruby's thoughts on the mistakes Saturday night. I don't know if I'm surprised. I mean, you know, there's things that happen throughout the year You know mistakes like that mental mistakes and you know, it could be a number of things You know, I haven't seen the mental mistakes like we made tonight in a while. So we'll look at it, we'll discuss it with our team and go over things and we'll go over how we looked in the first period too. So you know, like I said, it Saturday night we get a More vocal Craig Broovey. Mm-hmm, and he just does not want to go there with

Anybody right now, you know you have your eyes though not Not like Sheldon on Kovacevich this weekend. Wow. See that? Do you have that? Yeah, I got to grab it. I was going to get it for the national. Oh yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. But he does not want to do that.

And I do buy into not necessarily trying to coach these guys through the media, but you gotta I think it's a little bit too over protective of him right now. It's too much for me. And I think it's important that, first of all, if he's giving it to them behind the scenes, that's good. But there's a lot of people out there

that are frustrated Lee fans that probably would like to hear a little bit more accountability than And I don't think it's bad you guys want to do like we have the the video of the Sheldon Keefe Kovacevich thing if you want to save it now, or you want to go? Okay, it's not relevant right now. Okay, I think what's you know, even Andrew Burnett came down on the guys prior to that hockey night in Canada talked about His hard comments on a team that's underachieved the reason I'm asking if it's relevant is because is this a Directive is this like a mission statement where he did that we and I won't well

No, no like Sheldon lost his cool but three times in a post game thing here, soft and purposeless need more from the stars. Like you can go back and you can remember it. But the reason they stick out is because the next day in the media, he was apologizing. He was coming out and saying that like, you know, not, I'm sorry, but like in his words saying that he

Kind of groveling a little bit and Berube hasn't done it at all. Is this just something what they understand the market and they know the way that things we do talk about it They just don't want it ever what i'm hearing you say is our Brendan Shanahan and or brad tree living saying to their coaches there's enough pressure in this market We don't want you to add to it Yes, that's what I'm I don't want you to pile on the guys in public. I Don't know It's less impossible every game that we see them with some mistakes where it doesn't

Get singled out, but nothing's nothing's getting singled out right other than mistakes for a blanket But so this seems relevant here is we have a clip on Ruby. Why did you yell so much at practice? So I saw some I saw some stuff on Twitter about him Going really crazy practice and I went on sports that this afternoon I got to the office and we have like B roll of the practices and I watched a lot of it Nothing. It was a practice like it was yelling He's dropped a few f-bombs amongst adult men that a hockey practice like it didn't really seem like a lot to me But you can play the clip and we can talk about it. Sure. But five execution. Yeah. Yeah, that's all

Didn't like the execution passing wasn't very sharp. Did it get better? I didn't like the execution passing. Wasn't very sharp. Did it get better in your estimation? Yeah, it got better. It's just the mindset coming in there. Day off sometimes, you know, a little sleepy. Execution's not good. So there you go.

He dropped a few F bombs at practice and they asked him. So there is a chance that he's being harder on the behind the scenes than we're seeing. Maybe there's a chance he's not. Also, also a chance he's not. I don't know. I'm guessing. While we're throwing stuff out there.

That's because what we do on this show. That's right, well that's what radio is. Two hours, we gotta throw some stuff at the wall. So I'm gonna, in the exact vein of what we're talking about, throwing stuff at the wall. They go out in Nashville. Think they went out? Is that a team that went out the night before?

You're not the first person to- Because I think they went out the night before. You're not the first person to bring it up that it's a Friday. Yeah. You're in Nashville. Yeah. Fridays are really fun.

I've heard it's a good time. Never been. Had some friends down there said it was fantastic. Really, fantastic fun. Yeah, so We're not naive enough to think that I Don't know a couple of late dinners. Maybe yeah, I guess I guess couple of late barley sandwiches Barley milkshakes, I guess I bring that up because it feels a little frustrating that it's like, well, they're

in Nashville. They're going to go out. Oh, well, they're in California. They're going to, oh, they're in Florida. They're going to go out to Montreal. You got to go. Okay. At some point, you don't have to go out.

I would never throw stones from my glass house about going out in Nashville. I moved out of a glass house. I'm chucking them. I would be all in at Tootsie's a hundred percent. So I'm not going to judge them if they did, but they did. No, no judgment as men, but as hockey players. Only speaking based on the percentages. That's right.

Of 22 guys. Yes. Okay. And also other things. Yes. But yes. Right? Yeah.

I don't know, but that's your question. They wouldn't have been the first guys to try to maybe play guilty. No. So that's been around for the game as long as the game's been around. Well, just hoping that now with three weeks left in the season or whatever it is and two points separating them from the division lead and everything that rides on that that that would be the end of that Yeah, I would say even as a player who was prone to going out There's a point in the season where you go alright, and you lock it down playoff a little bit before playoffs

We're probably in lock it starting now now and then you go out you go You know at the same time all of them if they've decided to go out for a couple cold ones, they probably thought that they could beat the 30th best team in the league. When you're one of the top 10 teams in the league, you thought you could probably do that. And I will. So we'll say sometimes you lose following something like that. But maybe Scott Lawton feels more a part of it now or Carlo feels more a part of it or

maybe you know, maybe something comes of it where you feel like more of a brotherhood. Yeah. Who knows. Now we're talking. Alright. Oh, male bonding. Let's get Brewie's thoughts on Scott Lawton. Good for.

Yeah, this was the best game. Last game for sure. I know the goal was disallowed but he was way more engaged in the game and you know provided more. What do you like about him on the wing? It's, you know, sometimes coming to a new team, it's less to think about, less to do. I don't want to put so much on him early on, you know, but it's not that he can't play center.

He's played center a lot in his career, and he's played wing, so I mean, he's played both. So I'm just trying to find some chemistry for him let's have a lot he did that was his best look by far Saturday so Brew was not wrong great pass to the friends in the slot there tipped one in just I We all got a sense that He was the first guy that knew his goal wasn't gonna be allowed I know he should have faked it a little right no I think it wasn't even close. I think it's

It just ran on maybe what he's felt the last ten days now just It just ran on maybe what he's felt the last 10 days Now just E or just all I just I'm starting to I'm watching him wear all of it for sure right the trade I Don't know whether or not he truly wanted to get traded or not apparently he loved it in Philly and in a perfect world would like to stay, but then you come home and then there's that home thing which I've experienced and if it's not going well, it's not a good feeling. No, I-

It's not, it's more weight on your shoulders. I think he's gonna hit a threshold soon where it's gonna be exhausting, right? The constant, ugh. And it's just, he's just gonna have the attitude where it's like, I don't care anymore. I don't care anymore. And that'll be, to me, that'll be the point where he can start showing more of who he is. It'll be freeing for sure. Freeing.

I want to read a quote from Eric Johnson, who was his teammate in Philly, who said, talked about him wanting to come to Toronto if you went anywhere and saying all that good stuff. And he says, he was super excited to go there, grew up cheering for the Leafs. He says, it's tough when you come from a franchise, you've been your whole career and then you come somewhere new. It's just a shell shock. You have to get used to so many different things. There's a huge adjustment period and it'll take some time, I'm sure, but I'm not worried about him. He's a total gamer and a guy you just want on your team. So, you know, the hope is that the words gamer are important there.

And this is a guy who is able to rise up and, you know, we've talked about team A, team B. If he can make team B stronger and include it more, bring it closer to team A, that would be a good thing. Can I ask you a question about Lawton and his deployment and the way that he's sort of played on this team up until this point. Plays 952 on Saturday night.

I guess they're chasing the game at the end. Lowest of the forwards. He's been on the left wing on the fourth line. He's played fourth line center here. Was there any chance that this is a miscommunication between Barube and True Living Was there any any chance that this is a miscommunication between Berube and True living in terms of his want of this guy like he had him early, right? He was the coach of it within Philly had him knows him

like not like he's sending a message but this his message that he's sending is this is what how he's deploying him and Just this is what kind of player he thinks he is as opposed to what the general manager does. Does that happen? I'm not going to put words in Kip's mouth, but I feel like you think that Borubi has been waiting for him to earn the minutes to give him more. I think yes, in many ways, I agree with you. But I think there's also a mode or a mechanism here to kind of protect him a little bit until he can find whatever they envisioned for him. And is there still a chance that he could be a third line centerman?

Like, this is why you traded for him. Like all season long the number one priority until it was or wasn't was we need a depth center man. Yeah, and now it's like No longer there. He's playing wing on the Fourth line. Well, I practiced today. He's on the wing with Domi and Robertson so Domi's playing center with playing left wing. I think yeah I think the thought is is that they they have to find a way to work them back into the center ice men they thought they traded for. What's what's killing me right now is Berube says he

works in pairs and I don't know if that's one of the things we have but he talks about forwards works in pairs it's Matthewsarner, Tavarez and Nylander. And then why is Domi Robertson a pair? Why are, you know, what about that is like, okay, that's one of our pairs? I don't think it should be. I think, so who are the three best offensive forwards that they have?

It's probably Lawton, Domi and Robertson past, you know, the top six so I guess we don't put camp and Holmberg in there a young yeah yeah look you're in croak you know but you're looking at Florida's third line of Luster ain't in London Rodriguez and Tampa Bay's got Bjork strand Paul gone Salvas are gone all this I don't know what it is yeah you know they've got pretty darn good third lines. It's going to be curious to see how that works out. You know, in the second to last game,

they actually played Lorenz, Kampff, and Jarncrok, or Lorenz, Kampff, and whoever it was, more than the Domey line. So they're still working on that bottom six. Just think that, I'm not sure if he was just a little bit overrated on the trade. That's the only thing that kind of worries me. He's more of who he is right now and hopefully he can get a bounce here and there,

but he's a 10 or 15 goal score on a good year, 15 on a bad year is 10. Yeah. And yeah, you can kind of fit him in, in, in short spurts anywhere between maybe the second line, the third line and the fourth line, and he's not going to look overly out of place, but I don't know. and he's not gonna look overly out of place, but I don't know, I didn't watch Philly enough to really tell you what I thought the Leafs were getting,

and I don't know. Yeah, to me, go ahead, go ahead. To me, the buildup, first of all, was like, a guy that I would say, that sounds like a John Tortorella guy. And it's like, well, John just traded him away, right? Well, John didn't, but yeah. If John wanted him, John would have kept him. Yeah, but it's not where they're at in their arc, right?

Was it too inconsistent for him, right? That's all. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Why did why did the Flyers trade him? Why why he's 30? He's not 34.

Like why did the Flyers get rid of him? Probably because they got a first round pick and the third best prospect for my team for him. I think that's certainly part of it. But I do think they're gonna try to make the playoffs next year. Your point to you know just scored like Max Domi has this year. Are the expectations too high right now for a bar that maybe is unachievable right now for him and I don't know can he get a lot better or can we just back off the guy a little bit too? Yeah no

that's totally fair. You know first of the back off the guy a little bit too? Yeah. No, that's totally fair. It, you know, I, first off the back off the guy part, no, that's not on us to do or on anyone to do. They traded a lot for him. He's meant to be a part of this. We're here to evaluate him. It's not our job to soften his life. The other part is, right?

Yeah, the other part. I mean, we've never really done that here. My Justin Bourne's getting a little tougher these days I'm just saying we all have jobs do this is ours. You can do this. This is literally the job. Yeah Hey, but you're right, but I do think it could be our job to adjust maybe People's expectations of what it was our blown out of proportion because of the cost. Okay, yeah, that's where I'm at right now. But I mean, could you give him a taste? Like give him a taste.

And to that point, yes, I would like to tack that on. That I would like to see him give it an opportunity with a couple of guys who can hawk. Give him like two shifts with Nylander and Tavares one time or like just don't keep plugging them away on the fourth one. Like... Tough to get a rhythm going when you're playing three minutes a period. It's a chicken and an egg situation here where you clearly want a new guy to earn Minutes, but you want this guy to be big free

Would you like would you like him and McMahon to kind of play off of each other sure sure? I think there's a great way to create another line by looking at one of those left-wingers nice McMahon And yeah, you're still gonna have to plug someone in up above But is there any way and maybe this is crazy Because nice has been good But is there any way that you put Dolmy up there and you try to create something with nice and and Lawton and Roberts and like just try something else Yes, absolutely nice Lawton yarn croak if he's just starting to play he's not been great

But he's had a couple of days off here But when you're contractually obligated to keep the top six, the two guys, the two pairs together, as every coach in this history of this team has been, it's tough to do. Three out of four games coming up between the Flyers, the Sharks, and Anaheim

will kind of exclude the Kings right now because they seem to be a tough team right tough that's tough game tough tough team right now and a playoff ready team but I Got to think three of those games. There's ample opportunities to try different looks Yeah, you you need six points and I do think that Whatever you want it to look like in playoffs Now is a great time to do it because you're likely to have success here and you can get good vibes going with whatever.

So if you want Lawton to have success, say he played his best game last game, we're gonna plug him in with in this spot. I think you have a chance to really start building something. But I mean, it sounds like it'll be Domi Robertson. It does sound like Craig Bruby sees Domi and Robertson both in the playoff lineup,

which is, you know, Domi not surprising, and Robertson both in the playoff lineup, which is, you know, Domi not surprising, but Robertson a little bit. And so can I just make one more comment on the lot and thing? Yes. You know, this is maybe more for Brad for living. Maybe don't wait till noon on deadline day to address a need that everybody knew was there all year long. I'm fully in on that. That was a frustration for months.

And like he was in on the ranting thing and he was juggling a bunch of different balls. The Shen thing that we all knew. Like it's just wow that's because it was his safeguard. I know but it just. Which feels like you still spent the expensive price for the safeguard which is not what they wanted either. Just felt like a rush situation And anyways, I do think Lawton can turn it around I do think he can be a contributor to this team, but right now it's been a pretty bad start

Indeed on the other hand mmm Brandon Carlos been pretty good. You want to just fall? Did you like the Bob Bobby? Because we're on the subject yeah, yeah, but six Just because we're on the subject. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. All right six Well, he's got such good speed on that line. He's strong and big got size and can skate I think that He gets to so many pucks in the offensive zone on the fore check and then hangs on to it uses his speed So that's what I see with that line with him and he's earned that spot my opinion That's what I see with that line with him and he's earned that spot in my opinion

So hey, there it is. I wouldn't even want to begin think about where this lineup would be without him. I know He's a good man. Yeah. Yeah, I'm so no he's turned himself into a very We play some other good players. We play the top six these six. He's big, he's heavy, and he can move. For sure. That's the biggest thing is getting in on pucks and creating opportunities in the offensive zone for guys. And him and Knives, have a look. Have a look that really can help this time of year.

The only problem with McMahon this year has been streakiness. You know, like he'll have stretches where he's not as valuable, like he'll have stretches where he's not as Valuable and then he has stretches where he's awesome. So you kind of don't know where he is in his cycle of things But right now is going pretty good Yeah I just I think he has to kind of play in the top six to have yeah to be to look like he has

Because I think it it just there's a little bit more space for him He works well with knee lander and DeVaris, I feel like, but he does get a little lost in the body. I'm totally in on Domi on the top line. And give me Knies with Lawton and someone. I like that. I'm fine for that look for the next couple of games. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm with you guys. I wanna see some shuffling going on. That would be good. Before we get to breaking, get to the great Gord Stelick, thoughts on Joseph Wohl. He ends up giving up four was, none of them terrible. I know Bellows is coming a thousand miles an hour, but it's just to me,'s it's a save that he He's made before yeah coming out Challenging and then finding a way to have a glance off his shoulder. Yeah. Yeah, I don't think any of this stuff right now It doesn't feel like we're deciding who's gonna be the game one starter until we get through

versus Florida at Florida at Tampa Bay. You know, like there's some games on the stretch where you're going to see guys play big games and you're going to go okay, that's him or it isn't him. But he's waiting for one of them to grab it right now. Okay, let's get a quick thought from Craig Breivy on Joseph Wall. I'm not sure what he could do on any of the goals to be honest with you. When I look at it, maybe the second one, you know, the short side one, but you know, he

made saves and you know, and the third one, you know, Tanny slides and ends up going into the goalie so put him, you know, he got out of position, but there's nothing he can do about that. We just we can't have breakdowns like that in the game. And for me, it's just that's mental. All right. Even 10 breakdowns, even 10 of his slide was like maybe. His worst slide of the season, right? You don't ever see him have like these slides that Potentially was sliding in the dance floor tootsees the night before don't necessarily work

Do you relax over there? You're ready to put them all in the Betty Ford Clinic? I'm the one who says I would have done it Ford clinic or what? No, listen, I'm the one who says I would have done it. I would have 100% gone out. Listen, I'm the bad guy here. I just thought it was a funny joke. You still love to joke on this show? Holy.

Tense. I can assume Brandon Carlos doing everything that you've wanted and asked for, I think, in a guy that got traded for a top prospect in a pick Yeah. Yeah for me. He's just solidified a pair. He's another guy. I feel comfortable with out there You know the other note there is just that this is a guy who's actually played playoff hockey He's played 70 plus playoff games. He's been to a Stanley Cup final. You don't feel like he's gonna get eaten up by the moment. He's been there, you know, so I feel a little more comfortable with him. You don't? That little smirk over there? Yeah, I don't know who punched him three times in the chest, but like, it was McCarran. Yeah. On the second one, McCarran's soft, just like

giant human. Somebody cross check somebody and just just like, there there times when I know they can do more of just a push back a little F you just a tad and I could have used some of it Saturday night if you're gonna go down boys Don't go down like that That's all that's not in like I didn't like the three punches He took to the chest buddy your six five on the second one punch him back take a two-minute panel They I don't care but just look at somebody and go not tonight. No, I'm not I'm not you punch me in the chest three times Sure, that's all. Yeah, my Karen's got an easy monster. I don't care You don't fight him. That's the beauty of your team

Yeah, you cross check him back and then you got three guys in a pile and it's over That's all He's six six 240 you're talking about a guy that Hey, you're talking about you're talking like a guy who's scared me. Yeah. Oh I terrified. Yeah. Yeah, so it's good for you It works for you shouldn't work for the guys On the ice we gotta get to go. All right, that's all. Oh, that's all. All right We'll take a quick break when we return it's Stelac tricity in the house Gord Stelac when we return to real kipper and born

Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL the JD bunk is podcast In the house, Gord Stalek, when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL, the JD Bunkus podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kiprius, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. All right. Is he ready? He's wonderful. He's talented. Put your hands together for the lovely Gord Stelick. Thank you, Kipri, Justin. Have you, have you recovered from filling in for Justin? Gordon I owe you a couple of lunches. I appreciate you pal. Thanks so much. No, it was great I'd love to hear about your Disney world word night world trip ordeal and all that at some point But can't be it's a fun week a lot of people watch the show

So it was kind of nice people know what I'm'm doing again, as far as the fan goes. So enjoyed it and always great to hop on board. Awesome stuff, Gord. So let's get right into it. The division is right there for the taking, Gord. It's a conversation that we had even when you were in a couple of weeks ago about the Toronto Maple Leafs and winning a division here and

then we watched what we watched Saturday night. Where's the concern level of blowing a lead and ultimately coming out with no points in Nashville? So I kind of thought it's true. My Monday morning analogy is that I try to apply it to real-life situations. So the worst four words to hear in a relationship are we need to talk right that's. But the other one is when your partner says how we doing and you go fine we're doing fine what does it mean fine well you never we never go on the strips you don't spend

enough time to go don't do what I've never doing fine and the Leafs are doing fine, but they've never done anything the playoffs they never got on those trips they've never got to the next level so we're doing fine but we've done fine eight other regular seasons and it hasn't meant anything in the playoffs so Kipi I do agree and Justin that I think something to play for obviously something different would be first place in your division it should give you a better first round matchup it would give you home ice advantage does that make things finer or is that the same old same old I I don't I don't really put a whole lot of stock in it I just think it's a good kind of goal to have down this stretch drive okay forget about the Leafs why

are you and Lisa not going on vacations talk to us Gord let us know we're fine we're fine Kipper we're fine, Kipper, we're fine. I just wait, you know, I can't go because Justin made me off one day. I gotta go down to the contenders, and it's nice to fill in with Kippy. It's like my field of dreams thing. So, you know, maybe, maybe, I should adapt.

Well, yes, we really appreciate that. So, looking at this team, like there's some frustration at the potential of what they could be and how they haven't seemed to just like take, they haven't taken this step. Do you feel like the way that Craig Barube has coached them gives them an opportunity later in the season to have more success?

This different style is built for playoffs, right? So will it be different in playoffs? Well, that's the hope, obviously, Justin. And, you know, last year, you really saw the first time that someone was made accountable, and then Sheldon Keefe made himself accountable. Like he flat out said, I didn't finish the job. And that, collectively, is the management group,

the ownership group, and the players. They have not finished the job, but for the first few years, it was about, let's not ruffle feathers, you know, worry about things, what have you. So that's the tweaks austin matthews being named captain when they could have waited another year was another one of those kind of tweaks and then the the two things i'm optimistic about or give me more optimism is the depth in goal now you need one good goal ten goaltender to play great but at least you have the chance for two and hopefully that's the case

and i think there's a better d so uh and then the Borubi coaching now there's sort of mythical proportions okay. There was 2019 when they won the Stanley Cup and the Blues won just one playoff round after that okay. So it's not like it was the magic dust every year so it's kind of like going back to 2019 and to his credit I mean he was a huge part of pushing all those right buttons and getting the play a certain way. And that's the reason he's here. Okay, that's the reason he's here. And it's not a new coach, fresh coach without deep Stanley Cup playoff experience.

So I wanted so many things I want to get into still with you. But just to touch on that, we just said, is there a chance that in 2019, just the style of play on the hard hockey, the straight lines, the dump and chase would just work better with guys like Ryan O'Reilly and Braden Shen than they would with Austin and Tavares and Jan Kruk? Well, exactly, because unlike when Mike Babcock came in, okay, and it was a blank canvas, unlike when Mike Babcock came in, OK, and it was a blank canvas and they, you know, they had team way out of the playoffs, they started

building pieces together like like Craig Barube is coming in and he's going around the office and hey, here's Mitch Marner, here's Austin Matthews, here's John Tavares, here's Morgan Reilly. Like, it's not about who do you want to bring in because there's nobody you're bringing in. Basically, it's about a certain, you know, finished product. So to your point, Kipri, I've always been about it. And I think Ruby's got that right feel that, you know, about, okay, there's things he can

do, but also you can't get people to change the way they play, particularly when they've been basically a successful team. Like you can get the Brett Hulls of the world like Ken Hitchcock did to adhere more to defense. That part's understood. There's minimum kind of team accountabilities. I'm not saying they were there before, but it's not like there were any consequences so it seemed in the playoffs.

So we'll see, but that's a very valid point. Does it work six years later? Who knows? We'll find out. One of those tweaks you mentioned was the C being transferred from Tavares to Matthews. Does it, do you think there's anything to the weight of the C being moved in that direction?

Because John DeVires just scored his 30th goal for the 7th time in the NHL. Last few games, he's rifling the puck in the net. He almost seems to be a little lighter. You know, great point. Like, it's funny. I respected him as a leader, don't get me wrong. But I don't believe you can be that serious I think you got to be a little bit more I mean because I think that's the way the team like like teams that win have a little personality look kick-ass little flair a little whatever a little little give-and-take with it so I think maybe you know that distraction or non-distraction has helped him he said hell of a season you're right and the other

one I thought of here's my other analogy Justin I know you step cats in the background, I'm sorry I remember one of them died when I asked what that I'm always upset when a pet dies. But you know during covid right we sat at home and we watched our pets too closely and veterinarians made off like bandits because we you know we sit and go a little fight when Muffy and blue have a cough I better take him in right and that's kind of how we're watching Austin Matthews. Is he hurt?

Isn't he hurt? Is the C-Wing on him? Isn't the C-Wing on him? Whatever. You know, two weeks ago, he had a game that wasn't much of a game against Florida. Oh, he's gotta be hurt. Then two weeks later, he said,

you talked about it last week, like some real vintage Austin Matthews games. So was the game two weeks ago just an off game for him? Or is he actually hurt and he rose to the occasion the two games last you know like the couple games last week like we're kind of micromanaging watching him so it's interesting in two parts of the sea that John Tavares it's kind of free at last free at last and in Austin Matthews case it's been a really uneven ride this year you're watching and listening to Gord Stelick Toronto Maple Leaf analyst

for Sportsnet 590 the fan and also wants to remind everybody to have their pets spayed or neutered. That's an important detail. Were you, did you think you had the number one goalie figured out last week for the Toronto Maple Leafs in game one or did the weekend confuse us more? Well it's a good kind of, well I mean I don't know if it's a good kind of confusing or not so I've always been big on Joe Wall and you look at his stats like he hasn't played much in the playoffs but his stats are ridiculous like both times he's had to play under unexpected circumstances I know it's not a ton of games but his stats are ridiculously good so he still is but I acknowledged, whatever it was, Kip, a week or 10 days ago,

Anthony Stoller said I would have gone with the hot hand, that he would have been the guy. And that's something Craig Barubia said, and I think open-minded and should be open-minded, and I would go with the hotter guy. But if they were 50-50, and it was rather than a coin toss, I would lean towards Joe Wall. Yeah, I think that's where most of us are kind of settled here.

Well, can't speak for you, Kip. The discussion we had earlier in the show was on new additions. We talked about Scott Lawton and him trying to find his way. Certainly he hasn't been given much opportunity, but hasn't been awesome either. What do you think on his game?

And is there still basically room for him to find himself as a Maple Leaf? Well again I think in layman's terms when you start new at a job and you know you've had like the other job you're at and sometimes the first week or two don't go the way you want it to right it's a lot and I think that that one sequence with Seth Jones where Seth Jones kept the puck in the blue line and Lawton was kind of blown by early and whatever kind of was you know the symbolic about his first few games by the way Seth Jones ain't killing it in Florida either right now but anyway we'll see what he does in the playoffs so so so yes you know what Scott Lawton is okay

he's he's not he's not a future you know exactly what he can bring my opinion now is you say to him whatever number of games say say it's three, you're going to play on one of the top three lines, the third line, and you're going to get whatever it is, 14, 15, whatever minutes. That would be my suggestion because you made the move to get him. Okay, you weren't stuck with him. And he's a guy that can be a real, you know what he does. He can be a really valuable contributor.

And that's what you're hoping for. Hasn't been the case so far He knows that we all know that and I think that would be to the solution right now is Because you're not going out giving games It's not like you're calling guys up throwing them out there from the American Hockey League just to get that experience But just that to help hopefully bring out the best in him how important in the next three or four games is it to get Scott Lawton going in your opinion here?

Because you know this market, you give up a first in prospects, no different than Foligno and it, fans here, they don't let you forget, Gord. Well, that's kind of after the fact they don't, you're right, they don't, but they do move on more than, you know, than say the Cardinal for Cordock trader taking three bell bubbles in the first round, which

seems to live in infamy. Okay. So I certainly know about not forgetting. I think they appreciate what the team's trying to do, go for it. And, you know, and that's why Kipi and Justin, at the end of the, at the other playoffs, we talk about trade deadline pickups and some flat out just don't work. Some flat just don't get going. You know, remember, remember Nick Richie, right? Remember that? Sure.

Really kind of a can't miss. Never got going. Michael Bunting did. Why? Who knows? Don't care. Not going to waste my time breaking it down. Just didn't get going.

So I wouldn't say it's about three games, but at some point, yeah, you kind of say, man, if he continues, if he has an indifferent regular season, then you probably can't give him a prominent role in the playoffs. So yeah, at some point, there is a need to get going, whatever that may be. Last one for me, Gorg, just in trying to build out the bottom six, how much would you prioritize trying to find offense there? You know, it seems like all those guys are kind of built for D, but it does feel like the Leafs are going to need a couple of goals past the top six.

We need the Nick Paul goal for Tampa Bay. We need the Gary Vaughn goal that wrapped up the series against the Philadelphia Flyers. Yeah, you know, like Stephen Mattoa, like that's exactly it, Justin. So it's a mix of a few things because we've had, I've lost track who we've had. Okay. I've lost track who we've had on the third and fourth lines. You know, there's Blackwell one time, there's a cherry. Every time I watch that game ago, wasn't it with the least for two months?

You know, there's a lot of those guys. So hopefully this year, yes, to answer your question about you got to get some offense along with the defense depth is so important in the playoffs. But again, your best players, your best players have to be vying for the Kahn Smythe trophy. You know, what Nathan McKinnon did in Colorado, it took him a long time, right? It took him a few years, but about getting to that level, for example, and you know, what Florida did about their big guns finally get going. So all these things have to work out. And then probably a little bit of luck like when when when, uh, Ruby's St. Louis

Blues won the Stanley Cup, the conference won final against Dallas, they got some bounces that really went their way, right? You know, it's usually like one round kind of maybe a round you really didn't deserve to win. But anyway, well, let's focus on doing what makes you deserve to win. And yes, you've got to get a little bit of scoring from the third and fourth line and a little bit of scoring from the third and fourth line and A little bit of scoring from the D last one for me to gourd

And I think from the beginning of training camp to where we are today that we'd all agree that this This team has done enough to tell us at least we're gonna have a different feel or a different look to this team in the playoffs And then we've had in the past. Yet we've seen blown leads creep in, including not a very good one, or not a very good showing Saturday night. Are we gonna be sitting here in four weeks, four and a half weeks, saying like, these guys once again didn't have the killer instinct

to put teams away? Whether, you know, and I never like to question things like that or question hurt. But what else can you think? What else can you think? What is that it factor? What is it that it factor? You know, Kippy is you and I vied for Toronto star columns. We're getting screwed now. They're all going baseball right now. I'm getting pumped on everything I try to throw out there. But we've discussed it before. And I got one in the hopper about the Roger Federer winning 54% of his points. And it made the difference winning 80% of his matches.

So it could be that simple that, okay, the Leafs 51-49. No, 54%. Like whatever that 3%, whatever that it factor is to your point, that last year, game seven in overtime worked in their way and who knows what would have happened after that goes to Toronto Bay police way. So we a hundred percent, I don't even think I'd be lying in the fetal position anymore, Kipper. There's a couple of years they lay in the fetal position like a lot of Leaf fans do.

I think now you'd kind of go, okay, we're fine. I think we're fine. I thought we're fine. But we are, you still haven't taken me on a trip. kippy by the way, you and I gotta talk sometime. Okay? Yeah, okay. I can't wait All right, I'll get the fiesta going. Okay. Love it. Gord is always great having you on the show pal. Thanks for doing this Thanks, Gordo. Appreciate it, buddy Former general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs, mr. Gord Stelick trying to think of that st. Louis Blues team that won the cup that

year Pat Maroon had three goals for us as seven points Pat Maroon barbachev yeah think so Sammy blaze yeah Oh Riley Teres Shen, Perron, Bozak, Jaden Schwartz, Robert Thomas, Sunquist, Pameran, Steen, Arbyshev. We're talking a bunch of meat and potato guys. There was no world-class skill, game-breaking world-class guys on that team. There was hard-working up and down led by Ryan O'Reilly. Yeah. No, it was a... Oh, I'm so jealous.

It's just incredible. I think I've sneezed for three straight shows. And every time I think, Kip never sneezes. Are you allergic to me? Is that what's going on here? I don't know. I don't know what it is But they also got it done on the blue line. Yeah, like they were a team that won From the net on out So it was petrangelo vince dunn colt parejo j bo meester jill edmonds and bortuzzo. Yeah, carl gunnarsen

and Petrangelo will never be Kiel McCarrie will never be Quinn Hughes that type of control of the game, but in so many other ways He was at that age. He was really good 20 points Really good Huge range he shut down power penalty kill You know could do it all and didn't you love the chop on Dry Cytl, the one he got suspended for?

It was when he was in Vegas. Yeah. But I just feel like, because it's like, okay, this guy is that talented and he still can't get angry. Grease. That's allowed. Okay.

Berkey's outside, boys. Ryan Burke, former NHL executive, Canucks, Ducks, Leafs, Flames, Penguins in studio. NHL expansion, centralizing the draft, international competition. Where can we not go with Brian Burke? Wherever we want, we go. Don't go away. The great Brian Burke in studio when we return to The Real Kipper and Bourne Show.