Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Overpowering the Oilers + Marner's Value

Episode Date: November 18, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee quickly share some thoughts on the Toronto Argos taking home the Grey Cup in the CFL before looking back on the Leafs' 4-3 overtime win over the Oilers on Saturday. They discuss the team's resilience, Chris Tanev's impact and Mitch Marner stepping up in Auston Matthews' absence. Then, they debate how much Marner would cost in free agency and whether a 5-game suspension was appropriate for Ryan Reaves' hit on Darnell Nurse. Later, they discuss Bobby McMann's 2-goal statement, Evan Bouchard's costly late-stage mistakes and Matthews' mysterious status.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right. We're jacked to start the week. Real Kipper and Bourne. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, and Jen Rolnick with you for the next two hours as we start our Leaf Edition Hour live on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus. What a weekend.

What a weekend indeed. Started out Friday with a goofy fight. Yeah. Went into a good hockey game on Saturday. Then we rolled into Sunday with the Bills beating Taylor Swift. Yeah, and? But more importantly.

And your Toronto Argos underdogs. Big underdogs. Big underdogs. Like eight and a half points. Absolutely destroyed Winnipeg. They dusted them.

Toronto is the city of champions once again, boys. Aronauts get it done eight and a half point dogs wonderful game enjoyed it thoroughly really boy fraser so big hit big play uh yeah game-changing play yeah uh recovered a fumble on a punt made it a two-score game and away we went but it was awesome i was really really fired up i love the great cup jonas brothers you know not my big cup of tea, but I will say. Do you think they should promote Canada bands? I think you just go for who's the biggest guy that'll say yes.

I actually support that. Yeah, I think that's like if you're the Grey Cup, it's like sure you'd like to get a Canadian. You'd love to have Shania every year. You'd love to have the Biebs. Did you see all the fans? Yeah. In the front?

Yeah, they did a good job of making it look like it was a lot of people. How many of them actually follow the CFL? That's what I want to know. Well, they also made it look, did a very good job of making it look like there's a lot of people there. But then like you see people that were actually on the field, there wasn't that many people on the field.

Anyways. But there was 50,000 plus people in the building for that game. If I can have one complaint, you can't have the Grey Cup in a dome. Sorry, Vancouver. No? No, it's got to be. It's in November. Cold, November.

Cold, Canadiana. It's got to be outside. It's a beautiful stadium. It's great to have all those people in it. And the ball should be a beaver. No, it's just shot. I think it's better when it's outside. A little chill in the air.

I missed it, but Prince Harry was there, too. Did you get excited to see him? I didn't see that. I didn't even notice that. I must have been going out with a beer or something at that time. Is he still a big deal? Prince Harry? He's a large name.

Absolutely. He defected a little bit from the royal family, didn't he? Didn't he get into it with the fam, with Meghan Markle and that whole thing? He's looking for a herald yeah well i mean listen we've had a mentor the royals before the leafs on this show a great start this isn't the royals got in before the leafs i will say i have one last thing to say good for you buddy thank you for you thank you okay uh plenty to digest out of Saturday night's Toronto Maple Leafs. You want to skip the Tyson fight, do you? You don't want to talk about it today? That was it. We'll save that for

we'll go, we'll talk about it in the National Hour. Alright. Let's not waste time on that until we need to waste time. Too much content today. Lots of content. So much. So, a lot to dissect out of that Saturday night

where the Leafs, with the help of Mitch Marner and overtime, 40 seconds in, beat the Edmonton Oilers. So we could start on depth scoring out of Bobby McMahon. We could start on a big hit. We could start on the news that Austin Matthews is still nowhere to be found i open it up to you jb let's start to start the hockey game itself uh from an overview perspective um what did you think of the matchup how did the leafs match up how they look against the oilers yeah i thought

it was a terrific hockey game and i thought on saturday night once again that the leafs are showing signs of of playing a style that i think is conducive to their head coach without many lulls i thought they competed hard once again stolars to me is just a a rock yeah and it's just not not seen before for me in the 10 years brendan shanahan has been the president that this type of goaltending has been provided for this long of a stretch that you say like you you need a good goal to beat him yeah right you know there were stretches where i felt good with freddie anderson in net for the leafs so you know he had some great regular seasons for them but you know sammy made a point before we came on uh the air talking about how stolarz actually makes you feel like not like he's

going to give you good goaltending but it's an advantage in the game like you have a leg up on the other team you are you're the guy you know you're the team that's got it feels like a cheat code a little bit having a goal it was playing like this and who did he rob before the tying goal that i thought was going to be in front of the net it came across i can't remember who he robbed he robbed somebody right in front of the net before they tied it you kind of thought well that's another one of the ones that saves and you know what else he did he made a great poke on a pass out from behind the net to an open player in front like he just he man, for a guy his size.

Yeah. Playing hot. I do think that the way that they're playing, Kip, it's like they can't – they're just keeping games close. Like, normally when they would be behind in a game, they open it up a bit, they start to chase, and all of a sudden it's odd man rushes a little bit. They just kind of hung around, and both Washington and Edmonton

gave them the chance to get back in the game right they were given gifts and they took advantage of the gifts the evan bouchard plays are obviously what i'm talking about tom wilson yeah in washington and i'm not sure that that's great that you can count on the other team to make mistakes all the time however if you keep the game close you put yourself in a position where one mistake can get you back in it so yeah let me ask you. Maybe that's kind of what you alluded to here, but we talked about it a bit on Leafs Talk after the game that this is part of the recipe where not a lot happens

for a lot of the game, and then these last couple wins, it's just been bang. All of a sudden, it just happens in the third period where they let the skill takes over, and you get a couple fortuitous moments by Evan Bouchard and they take advantage. You know how I felt the last few years watching the likes of Justin Hall or the lily pad jumping up with a minute to go in the period

and getting caught. And it's like... Just wait. Just wait, you know. Wait for an opportunity, manage the clock, don't have to gamble. And they've cleaned that part up. And that, to me, is the biggest difference,

that there seems to be a level of discipline that even when the game isn't going great, just don't give anything up. And to your point, just be patient and wait for that opportunity. When it comes, just don't give anything up and to your point just be patient and and wait for that opportunity when it comes we don't know but when they do let's pounce and make the most of it and that's the way the game has looked most often than not for the Leafs I know there have been some bad games but it's part of the learning process it doesn't that feel like how good teams have beat the Leafs in the past

where you know they least can't quite score they can't get the next one they can't get the next one and they wait for their mistake and they're hanging around all of a sudden one least mistake and you're like god they made one mistake they played pretty well you know nick paul goes down and scores or whatever it's well good recipe you know a lot of it probably has to do with these things you're talking about with personnel like the guys that they added, you think about Tanev. Tanev's not going to get caught up the ice, make a dumb mistake late in the game. That's just not in his game. Hockenpah, the same way.

You've seen him through two games. He's still looking a little stiff to me, but he's not going to get caught up the ice. Albrechtman-Larsen definitely charges it up a little bit, but a couple of the guys they added here are definitely more to that. They're going to stay back. They do a very good job of taking the most dangerous middle part of the area of the net in front away. And that's why Tanev can constantly block shots again. Eight shots or something the other night?

Eight Saturday nights. Some guys go half a year without eight blocks. But he's he's always there yeah no and and that probably helps the goaltenders out just trust what's going on in front of them uh why don't we go to the coach we'll get a clip from craig barubi his overview of the game clip one a lot of special teams obviously in the second period, you know, they came out and pushed pretty hard in the third. But, you know, we don't like they had the puck more than us, you know, early on in the third, but we only, we didn't give up much, you know,

we really protected the interior of the ice tonight. I thought our net front, I didn't, you know, the second and third opportunities we did a real good job on. We battled, we were like, we didn't, you know, the second and third opportunities, we did a real good job on. We battled. We were like, we didn't quit. You know, it was a hard game. It was a good game. It's a hard game.

Yep. Yeah, I agree. It's a good game. Don't want to go too long without mentioning Mitch Marner. I just, before you go on to that, just one more thing on Tanev. You know, Tanev and McCabe is something to me that the Leafs haven't necessarily had in years past you put them up against McDavid yeah like you put them up against McDavid yeah line McDavid ends up with two points because he gets one on the power play he gets one at the end

of the night and when they tie it but they I think McDavid was dash three in that game like they did an excellent job against that. Good gaps, just limiting their chances, blocking shots. Like he said, limiting the middle of the ice. If I'm watching that game, it's like, wow, you can picture that in a playoff series against a good top line, having those two guys. So that was encouraging.

There was an article in The Athletic last week about how that pair, Tanev, McCabe, is one of the three best pairs in the NHL at goals against, or expected goals against, keeping opportunities down. Or great early. Just say Mitch Marner plus three. That helps. David minus three. Yeah.

That can sum up the night too. Yep. And I thought the overtime where, once again, the most dangerous player is dictating defensively the play on on the goal yeah i get like pretty good night for mitch marner he was the best player on the ice and that's that's a big thing to say when mcdavid is also on the same sheet of ice for sure yeah it um you know we'll get to the power plays the special team stuff but obviously yeah marner was you know he's the type of guy who can control the outcome of a

game in a way that not many people can because of the way he plays at both ends of the rink and i thought he controlled so much of the play the pace the ability to you know on the power play the play in overtime is just absurd yeah to get back on the two to be the defenseman on the two-on-one get down to a knee redirect it to the perfect soft spot get up accelerate maybe the best passer in the league accelerate all the way down the ice and then i mean i'm not gonna kill stewart skinner here but stewart skinner gives him the whole net to shoot it into and he does and he shoots it into the wide open net that he gave him on the worst angle i've seen in a long time.

But, yeah, he was awesome. He was awesome. Yeah, let's get Craig Berube's thoughts on Mitch Marner. Yeah, he was excellent. I mean, he did so much good in all facets of the game, penalty kill, power play, five on five. You know, he did a great job of breaking up that two-on-one in that play and going the other way and scoring there you go yeah effusive just will not sorry boys we got to get the coach's thoughts it's just he's not expressive

it's good to get get the coach in on that she's not expressive starting to win some people over i think mitch what's that like who's coach yeah everybody maybe even the town no no let's not jump to conclusion i think so i think so do you want to talk contract stuff uh no what's the point well i think it's valid well what because all this stuff is yeah it's you know like last year when willie would score goals he okay is he up in his dollar amount? Is he up in his value? So did you see my poll that I put out today on Twitter, Kipper?

No, I did not. I should follow you. You follow? Yeah, give me a follow. I'm going to give you a follow. Tell me about your poll. I did not see it, and I do follow you. No, you do.

I was genuinely interested in this because I don't really know where I'm at. Like, I think I wanted them to sign him. I do, but, like, I'm not 100% sure on that. I put it out there and I said, where are we at on the Marner contract situation? My options were just sign him. Let's see you go playoffs.

Let him walk. Those are the three options. What do you think is leading the way? Knowing this town, let him walk. Let's see you go's leading the way uh no in this town let them walk let's see no playoffs was the was the final so and it's pretty close 44.7 percent of people said just sign them let's see playoffs 45.2 percent and let them walk was 10 okay it's it's almost like you think like they'll decide what do you mean right like it's like i got news for you if it's let's

wait to the playoffs like there's a chance it'll be too late by then oh no question right yeah so it's like you want to pull here's a pull sign him now or let him walk which one me yeah sign him now yeah absolutely absolutely you know i actually think but i don't know about your pull i mean Let him walk. Which one? Me? Yeah. Sign him now. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I actually think. But I don't know about your poll. I mean, it's just. If everybody's saying wait to the playoffs.

Yeah. Then they don't want to sign him now. He's the foremost, most sensitive player in the league. The wait to playoffs thing would definitely hurt some feelings. Oh, yeah. Right? You know what I'm saying? It's like, look at the way he's playing.

So my poll just costs at least a chance of signing him? Look what he's done throughout his career. He's one of the greatest Leafs already to have played, along with Austin. Yeah. And people don't want to sign him. It's like that tells you how sensitive it's been. Well, you got, you know, a combined 90% of the people

either want to sign him or want to see some more in playoffs. You know, I think both sides here have kind of messed up, but particularly the Leafs in that, you know, he's such a good player. And let's say you sign him and you give him a little bit more than you think he's worth or whatever. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Why a little bit more? I don't understand that he'll get

the raise that he's entitled to if he plays fair market value okay there's not a little bit more i mean he's at 10 9 he's been that way for six years okay so what's the what what do you tell me you tell me what what do you want to see him get paid i don't want to see him anything what do you mean? You tell me. What do you want to see him get paid? I don't want to see him anything. What do you think is the number? I think he could be worth close to Leon Dreisaitl. Which is $14 million? Yeah, $14 million. Jesus.

No Jesus. I'm telling you that if you stuck him out in the market as an unrestricted free agent, I think someone's going to come to him with between 13 and 14. That's great. You know, I think the Leafs have messed up by letting it, you know, let's say he's worth 12. And the Leafs said, yeah, we'll give him.

Okay, hold on. Why 12? Well, because he's probably worth about 12 because he's. Why? Why 12? He's making 11 now. Because he can't produce anything at five-on-5 on his own. He can't produce in the big games.

Oh, my gosh. These are truths. Have you followed the team? These are narratives that have been following him by... By magic? By lies? By you and others that just say he's not worth it. Get rid of him.

He's not worth it. I'm not saying that. I'm saying he's not worth being the second highest played player in the NHL. But he is the, he, over the last five years, like Oney McDavid and maybe one other guy. Pull up the text you have from someone telling you what to say. What is it? Stop it. Well, come on.

Stop it. This is tiresome. He is the third highest producing guy the last five years. I'm sure he is. Don't tell me he's not up there with all the rest of them. He is up there. But he has not delivered a Stanley Cup. No, we're talking about.

And he hasn't delivered in the playoffs. If he gets paid $12.5 to $13 million or whatever number, that's the highest paid guys in the league. You always talk about this internal cap. No, it's not. It's going up. Matthews makes $13.5. That's old money. You're talking about old money.

No one can pass anyone else. Internal caps in this internal culture, but the Leafs can't have one with their top guy? They can, but he might bypass it. So then they can't. Well, they can, but they choose not to. Not that they can't. They choose not to.

Right. So listen, McDavid is the number one guy in Edmonton. Okay? Not that they can't. They choose not to. So, listen. McDavid is the number one guy in Edmonton. Edmonton thought that they were going to get Dreisaitl for 13. And he said, no, the number's 14. You know what happened? They gave him 14. They gave him 14.

Right. And the Leafs may be in a similar situation. Look at Leon Dreisaitl's playoff stats. To say that Mitch Marner is going to be worth what he's making is astounding. If he goes to a conference final or he takes him to a Stanley Cup final, then he goes to 14. Well, if he's able to produce like Leon does on route to it, yes. Or he can pick another team to go to and they go,

we'll give you 13 and a half, 14. So I think he's not in Leon's class, and there's no statistical measure that he is in Leon's class. Not one. Not any. The stats will tell you he is. The numbers will. The production.

Not the postseason numbers. Not even close in the postseason. Like 50% of his output. But Austins weren't either. And neither were Willys. Okay? Because they're all the same. They're all the same.

But I don't get why you're trying to drive his contract to a place that's not. I'm not driving it. I'm telling you where it is. And I'm telling you that that's not right. That's not accurate. That's a negotiating position that someone would set at the start of a deal. No, and no one's... Why would someone need to tell me what I think he's worth

after 25 years in the broadcasting business, 10 as an NHL player, and I've lived through strikes and lockouts and i've watched negotiations why would you think that i need somebody to feed me information so i can push mitch marner's numbers up i i have no idea but it always has felt like lobbying rather than but what about your stripping down of the value that he really provides i just don't think you know listen he provides a ton of value. It's okay if you say he's not worth it.

It's okay. I'm saying he's not worth it, Leon Echelon. He's not. I just don't think. I think he's way more valuable than you think. Well, Dreisaitl has had 100 points six times in his career, and he has 108 points in 74 playoff games. He's making an argument.

They're not in the same conversation to me. I'm sorry. He's making an argument that he's Craig Berube's most important guy. He is. Past Matthews. Matthews. But he hasn't been. Matthews hasn't played at all under Berube.

So Matthews has been hurt. And we have a terrific goal score. But he doesn't provide as much value as Mitch Marner has. He's been hurt, and we die with this conversation. He's a terrific goal scorer. Yeah, but he's good defensively too, Kipper. He doesn't provide as much value as Mitch Marner has to the Leafs. As a penalty killer, minutes played. Okay? Yeah, yeah. His point production, even with Austin out of the lineup.

Austin Matthews is a center who has a heart trophy, who's the captain of the team. He's a terrific goal scorer. Perhaps the best ever up there with the top couple guys. Yeah. But ask Craig Bruby, like, who he thinks might be his most important player, even with Austin back, I bet you he'd be pretty darn close to saying Mitch.

For sure. So Austin's making 13 and a half. The only thing is they have never delivered in the playoffs, and they're all right there. Sure. So Austin's going to make 13 and a half. Let's say they were to give Mitch 13. Can we do that or no?

Mitch could take 12 and a half. He can take 12. And if he does, then I'm saying that he may have left $2 million on the table. Okay. I'm not saying that Mitch won't sign $2 million on the table. Okay. I'm not saying that Mitch won't sign. He won't give him the discount. He won't do this.

He won't do that. That's for him to decide. But I'm telling you right now that that guy is in the ballpark of all the rest of them in terms of where his value lies, whether or not they chooses to take it or not, is up to him. Why don't we get Berube on this, right? Yeah, he got asked by Luke Fox, asked him if he was worried about the contract stuff heading into the season.

Clip. Clip four. Clip four. I mean, I don't worry about that stuff because it's out of my control. I mean, and he's obviously not worrying about it. He's just playing hockey and he's enjoying it. He's had a great, you know every day this guy has tons of energy and life at the rink and on the ice and practice and during the games and uh you know he's in a real good spot right now yeah i guess here's what i would say about the Mitch Marner had what Leon Dreisaitl did

in the playoffs, he is 100% in the conversation with Dreisaitl. If you're Utah or if you're a team that needs scoring, they don't care. They don't care about it. You don't think they care at all? I think they care a bit when the biggest games, it's like he's shrunk in the biggest games, Kip. It's just a fact. No, he's shrunk. So is games kip it's just a no he's he's

he's shrunk so is everybody else the team was never good enough the team never had the depth on the blue line like a defense they never had goaltending like this okay it's like just to put that that he shrunk in the playoffs on him will not take away we're talking about him we're not talking about why aren't we talking why aren't we talking about like you could have made the same argument for matthews that he shrunk in the playoffs too and he didn't deserve 13.25 i think if he doesn't shrink in the playoffs he gets 15 you know i do think these are relevant things the point i was trying to make before we got off the rails here is i think had they gone out early and paid him,

even knowing that it hasn't gone how they wanted at the end, it's impossible to deny from a fan perspective watching him here over this month that this guy is a guy who gets you into the playoffs, who is a difference maker, who's fun for the fans to watch and separates your team. Some nights nothing happens. And then he's the guy who makes something happen for you and it just makes such a world of difference you to me you're never going to regret having paid a guy like that maybe it's a hundred million dollars over eight years

i just think now you're in a position where you're you know we're going to talk to elliot later talk about the salary cap going way up and all of a sudden yeah i can see why you know it's great for mitch's bargaining that they're talking about the calf going way up because they're going to cost themselves some money for not having done it yet for sure well i agree with that the yeah you can go back in history and you can just follow kind of you know the crumbs on on where it kind of screwed up and how one chased after the other and one one up the other and now it looked like last year it was matthews and nylander and mitch was a distant third and now it's like okay is he equal to willie to me is he better than willie where i would feel comfortable at would be

matthews 13 was it 13-5? Marner, 13, Willie at what he's at. Because I was in the camp, you know, I was starting to wonder if Willie was more important. But you watch what Marner does and all facts of the game, he's incredible. But he's right below, he's just right there. It's not realistic that a guy's making 11 and then the cap rockets. And he only gets a million and a half to $2 million raise. People don't think he was an 11 guy. They think that contract stunk.

Do you know what just taking half a million less or a million less would do for his perception in this market? Where it's like a guy that's all. That's kind of it where it's like always ringing every dropout has not gone well. Listen. That's where this started. You know what? That's where of it where it's like always ringing every dropout has not gone well. Listen. That's where this started. You know what?

I call him a sap. I call him a sap that you got to suck up to the fans by cutting off a million and a half. But he's the one who cares the most. So Sammy can come on our show and say, what a great guy. He took a million and a half less because he wants to win us over. That's a loser in my mind a loser to me is someone grinds every nickel and doesn't care about winning but you know better than everyone he cares the most what guys like dumbo me thinks by far of all the guys he cares the most so why isn't he trying

to help his perception that he cares so much by not grinding them for every dollar and talk about 14 million bucks a year but but matthews can grinding them for every dollar and talk about 14 million bucks a year but but matthews can grind them for every dollar there was no grind there was a grind it's never the contracts are announced before we're aware you're right there's no grind because the leafs just said we'll we'll give you whatever you want because he's better we'll give you whatever he's better player what does better mean because he's just better he's a better goal scorer better goal scorer better playmaker better center better playmaker no better penalty killer anyways excuse me he's better is a better penalty killer no is he a better playmaker kip if you put him in the middle him and marner

in the middle and took 32 gms where's better for you he's he can he can compete in a physical game we don't see the game the same way buddy okay okay we don't you think most goals is better yes that's exactly what i'm thinking about yep that's it that's it i think 32 gms if offered one of them take the six foot three center who can kind of pull a line along with them and you know do what all the matthews things are yeah do the hardest part of the game we do not agree no but i mean like i was prepared to come in here today and have a conversation like listen i do the hardest part of the game. We do not agree. No. But I mean, like, I was prepared to come in here today and have a conversation like this. Listen, I didn't even want to go down this path.

You want to go, well, that's because you're trying to walk me. You voted me. You said, let's do, no, you said, let's do the contracting. That's because you're trying to walk me. I said, no, no, no, no, no, don't go there. No, but I knew we'd have some sort of conversation. But I think the point is that there is a number to be reached where we're talking about the same slice of salary, whatever. Where this doesn't have to be everyone's all rattled over 750 grand or whatever the difference is between what you think and what I think.

And to me, Marner and the Leafs, there's something there that doesn't need to be this like, you know. Contentious. Yeah, this like Michael Jordan and I took that personally all the time. It's always contentious. It feels contentious.

With Mitch. Not with Willie. No. Absolutely. Not when they just do their contract. But they just gave Willie everything at his highest point possible. Yes.

They just were like, we better. Which is not awesome either. Which was not great either, but he's lived up to it. He's been excellent. Somebody's got to take it on the chin between the three of them. No, that's not what compromise is, though.

I would love to just check my phone and be like, oh, they did Mitch at 12.75 for eight years. Where did Matthews compromise? Not only did they give him the money, but they said, tell us, four years, five years. He took less than dry cycle. Why didn't he take eight? I agree.

Why wouldn't you sign him to eight? Because he wants to make more money. I agree that that's stupid too. Like you're preaching to the choir on that. I hated that. David had to take eight. No. He chose to take eight.

He chose to take eight. They would take whatever he would give them. All right. Everybody took eight though. Everybody made the commitment of eight except Matthews. So have Mitch take five then. Go for it. Don't care. I think you would take a good

player i think he would take 12 and a half at at three or four years i think that'd be amazing be amazing sign tomorrow done deal what sucks about this is like you know he played so awesome last night and he is paid this year to be a maple leaf played awesome for it and the fans can't come on our show and enjoy the meal. It's like going to Jacobs and you had a great steak dinner and you're arguing about what you're going to eat tomorrow for dinner.

Like, enjoy this. PB&J for lunch tomorrow, boys. Like, he's here. He was awesome for this team. You guys brought up the contract. I didn't. I was enjoying my steak. And you said,

let's talk about the steak tomorrow. The coach is talking about the content. You know we talk about it because that's a relevant thing after a night like last night. I don't know. I'm having a blast, boys. It's good talk radio. Okay. There was a hit. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We got time

to talk about the hit? Yeah, we got a little bit of time. We got time. Okay. Seriously. Seriously. What are you typing? What is, like, what's the big deal? With the hit? Yeah. Other than it was bad.

Yeah. And he got suspended. Okay. Okay, what's the big deal? You think the length was not a big deal? Or you didn't think the hit was that bad? No, the hit was bad. It was bad.

But so what? I mean, we've seen hits like this before. Okay. It's standard that you're going to get suspended two games. And then if you hurt a guy, you're going to get three games. And then if you have priors, it's four games. And if you've been warned multiple times and it's your fourth suspension, you go to five games.

So you think this was like, bad hit, they got it right, here's your five games. I don't know if they got it right. In the ballpark of right. They're in the ballpark of Tanner Janot. Yeah. Okay, it starts with three and he's done it before. He's had it.

It's not his first illegal hit to the head. Tack went on, tack went on, And now you're between four and five. Yeah. So what is the big deal? Why are people so upset? Yeah, I don't know. I thought that the intentions of Reeves was way near as bad as the one on Besser. Yeah.

Where on Besser, you know, intends, goes out of his way, puck's not there, throws it on an elbow, hammers him. I thought Ryan Reeves made a play. No, no, no. He came in. It's bad. He sure got suspended, but I don't think he deserved five games. I thought it was a Toronto attack situation.

I think they're in the ballpark, both of them. What do we see? We saw Gallagher last year get five. He had a chicken wing, though. Yeah. Reeves actually, like, when you teach people the four check you lead with that stick at the puck and he did that like he took a swipe at the puck first and then he's going to you know he's a big strong guy and yeah he catches him in the head

it's on you to not be reckless it's got to control your shoulder it gets emotional you know and even for our panel saturday night hockey night in can, it gets emotional for sure. Because, you know, Edmonton fans on social media are screaming bloody murder. And, you know, it's emotional, but I've done this for 25 years. And I can tell you that,

you know, I get Luke Gastic on the show saying we got to get it out of the game because that's been a tagline for like 25 years. You see a hit, we got to get that. Well, no kidding, right? I know we got to get it out of the game, but if you really look at it, we have gotten that out of the game. Yeah, it's way better.

That never happens. We were close to 600 games this year. We've had like, this is the second incident. I got news for everybody. It is out of our game. As much as it can be in a game of inches. And the truth is,

like, people that said that he deliberately went after him, or he, like, come on. First of all, they're friends.

They're buddies. I guess he went to the room at intermission and apologized. He's racing after the game to your point to go and apologize. And in my era, all I heard was,

scrape that piece of crap off the ice and drop the puck. And it's like, it's not like that anymore. So it was just a bad executed hit. It stinks for Edmonton. It was a bad accident. He's playing 21 minutes a night for them, five seconds less than McDavid. You're telling me now Reeves came off the bench

and said, I'm going to go rip that guy's head off? Yeah. Like, that's what I had to worry about. These kids don't have to worry about that today. You know, I think a lot of it goes back to guys not expecting to get hit either like you know nurse comes around the net he's not really paying attention it's like you know you're talking about your day anybody comes around the net like that it's like you got to have

your head up it's a situation yeah and like not blaming them it's clearly a horrible hit but it just goes back to the conversation we've had a million times guys just don't expect it and reeves full speed downhill it's not a good recipe for not a good recipe i get it you can sit there and say you left himself vulnerable and that's up to him now to decide you know moving forward how much more do i have to have a of a radar and you know it could have been a clean check and he still could have been hurt you know so i mean it doesn't really matter that he left himself vulnerable. That's only for him to decide in the future how much more I got to protect myself,

get my head up, get my stick up, make someone eat it before I ever get in this situation ever again. That's on him to decide that. But people saying, like, you know, he should have the right to not feel vulnerable is ridiculous. It's crazy. It's still a really dirty hit. It is. We got the coach on it. Let's listen to clip five on the Reeves suspension.

Yeah, it is what it is. You know, it's tough. I mean, it's a lot. But at the same time, I get it too. You know, they've come down hard on hits to the head, and it's not like Rebo tried to hit him in the head. It was just, it's a tough play. Tough play.

Tough play. We've got a clip, too, there on him. Yeah. Should we check out number six as well, please? Yep. His type of game, and sometimes things happen. And it's not like he's a dirty player. He's not a dirty player. He's a dirty player he's not a dirty player he's

a clean player to my opinion for his role and there was no intention of him doing that it just it was just happened you know i don't think he is they're not no i don't i don't want to compare we had a very people are telling me they loved our Marty McSorley conversation. I forgot that happened. And I'm not comparing this to Marty McSorley taking a stick to Breschier's head. But there is always circumstances around it that people that don't necessarily understand the game or have ever played it before cannot comprehend. And, you know, for a guy like Craig Bruby to come in from day one and just drive down their throats every shift, finish, finish, finish and what that means to mitch or willie or austin is entirely different what it means to that guy yeah so when that guy jumps out there and he sees a chance to do something that will get him a pat on the back he goes and tries to his best of his ability but the game is very fast and it's knee-jerk reaction sometimes and it's

subconscious sometimes and execution can go astray i think you and i you know probably you more than me but have thrown hits in your career where the second it happens like ah you know like that didn't go exactly how i thought it was going to go like as it unfolds and i get it there was one night in hartford i hit gary galley what i've never brought this up before no let me tell you what's that oh we never brought this up with no we've never brought this up before next time we gotta have mon and talk about this and i was absolutely ashamed oh really of my hit they carried him off on a stretcher. Really? And to this day, I haven't had... I was so ashamed,

I couldn't even bring it up to him. We've worked on Hockey Night in Canada. We've done playoffs together. And it was... It made me so ashamed. I couldn't even have the nerve or the balls say whatever you want to go up to him

and say gary i never addressed this to you before but i felt so bad and it was like couldn't explain it couldn't even explain it to him you know gary there's my public apology to you for the first time man i'm so sorry did this happen because you were locked in i was locked in like that for me it's like you're mentally committed i'm finishing this check and as you're going to do it something changes in their positioning and you're like i wasn't open-minded to changing my own mind here yeah now these have been sitting for how long it was wasn't that right after the five they had, sorry, but they had another kill. He comes around the net. He's like, oh, my God.

I'm going to get one here. 10, Beller. And boy. Yeah. We should take a break. Oh, my God. Yeah, we got to go. Yeah.

What a save. Sorry, guys. Wow. We'll talk to you guys again. Take a break here, and I'll just feel shame during the commercial break. More of Real Kipper and Bourne after the break. Diving deep into Leafs, Raptors, Jays, and NFL.

The J.D. Bunker's Podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Did we catch our breath on to hot cali yarn croc talk no hold on bobby your command boys i gotta i gotta i got a big read here oh no this is a long one and save us a little time for this and here we go okay this is i'm this is first cold read here so here we go who wants to win a bunch of cash while doing the best this holiday season i do okay it's sportsnet 590 the fans fortune supporting food for kids here's what you need to know we've created a 50 50 lottery where the more money we

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and data rates apply, Ontario only. That website, again, is foodforkid5050.ca. There you go. Are you guys okay? So this is fast because Taylor Swift only has like, what, four shows left? She's going to get 100 more shows. She's going to ride me off the highway again. I heard they were unbelievable.

Everyone who's gone has said it is like spectacular. Okay, how did I do, okay? You did great. I had a little nap. Sorry for that. That's why I was checked out. I just keep hearing amazing things about her. Yeah.

Listen, boys, we had enough, Taylor, so we have content on Saturday night. Holy crap. Let's just move on. Can we move on? Like, oh my god. This is a bad time to give Sam our friendship bracelet. Oh, god. Everything, it's like, oh, that swifty-boop-de-boo. A friend of mine is one of the sponsors Oh, God. Everything is like, oh, that swifty boop-de-boo.

I was like, oh, my God. A friend of mine is one of the sponsors, so they actually call her at home. What kind of tier of sponsorship is that? They call her at home, and they ask her if she could mind either staying a little longer at one of their corporate appearances or, you know, whatever. And then her mom goes, just a second, I'll ask her. Taylor! Come on.

And then she goes, yep, okay, no problem. And then hangs up. Like, no lawyers, no my people will talk to your people. Really? She's just the type of person that would just say yes right away wow it's a swifty show yeah listen she seems like a sweetheart should we turn the page a sweetheart wouldn't escort half of toronto off the gardener in rush hour i'm impressed with her yeah she's fine okay are you impressed with bobby mcmahon yeah i gotta say how i you weren't even

sure if the goal went in on the breakaway. I was impressed by Cuthbert, which, I mean, CCA shouldn't be blown away by him nailing something, but he nailed the call, and I thought it hit the post that comes out. Well, he's there, and he's got a better view than you. The speed was breathtaking, fellas. Like, I couldn't believe he was going to win that race, and he did win that race.

Breathtaking. Breathtaking, buddy. It took my breath race. And he did win that race. I mean, breathtaking, breathtaking, buddy. It took my breath away. I stood up off the couch. Yeah. I'm not really sad about it. At least. Isn't there a Seinfeld episode where a baby's breathtaking?

Baby, look at the baby. Was it not? I don't know. Very, very sad. Breathtaking. What the hell's going on with my show?

In Sammy's defense. It was amazing speed. Great burst of speed. He can only play, though, as a top six. He can't do that as a third liner. That is a reasonable point, that the second you play this guy with players, you have a new player.

He's a lot more useful. I do wonder when everyone comes back where they slot him in because he doesn't seem to be able to create on his own, but put him on a line that's in the right end. When he puts his mind to it, man, he can go. He might make Ruby mental

because he has all the tools and why can't you do that all the time sort of thing. The play he made on the first goal is my favorite play where he gets in on the forecheck, hammers Emerson, wins the puck, gets it to the front of the net and ends up scoring it it's just like brube watches that he's like you haven't been doing that why in the bottom six it's like he feels empowered or something how much do you blame bouchard on both goals the turnover on the nize goal both plays by the way skinner is allowed to make better plays on those like you don't just

just flip the goalies and Oilers win that is a no-brainer right yep that's what it's like coming down to makes no fakes Skinner's just so far out I think that's just what Edmonton Oiler fans have to deal with no different than Pittsburgh or San Jose or Ottawa with Carlson all those years. It's just he's really good in that end, and he's really good on the power play, and he's got a big shot, but it's a mystery. They were up 2-1 with 6.55 on the clock when he goes to make a cross-his-own-zone sauce pass.

The guy who's changing. The guy who's changing. The guy who's changing. There was one camera angle out of the corner, and it was like, what do you see? He's like throwing it through. Why would you ever attempt that? Did it hit McDavid in the shin? It hit McDavid in the hip or something.

What do you see that 18,000 people don't see? It's a one goal game and you're along the boards. Like you're allowed to use the boards. Just get it out there. Anyways. And you know, credit to Matthew Nyes who rips that but like it's top of the circles. You know, no tip, no screen.

Skinner can give him one there if he wants. It's allowed. The only thing is, it's allowed um the only thing is is still a mystery is you know what do you do now is uh try to start solidifying third lines you've kind of noticed there's other teams that have had much more success i.e winnipeg yeah um yeah winnipeg's uh even washington's third line you know looks pretty darn good but right now you don't you don't have any feel for a third line for the leafs robertson camp holmberg is that that's what it's on daily face off today

holmberg was better too no it's just camp is kind of finding some relevance he's they're putting him out there in the d zone the way Keith used to. Yeah. He's coming around on Kampf. I can't believe how much Nick Robertson falls down. Like I sent out a rude tweet about them having to ring out his jersey at the intermission. Like it's just. It's still. He's on the ice the entire game.

Still a big man's game. I know. And sometimes those guys can find a way, but Nick hasn't physically. No. Give him enough room, he can shoot a puck. We've known that. But his battle, to your point, is staying on his feet when the checking gets tight.

And look at guys his size who have success in the league. It's guys who don't get hit. Like Marner's a good example. He's obviously much bigger than Robertson, but he doesn't get hit. Patrick Kane don't get hit. Like, Marner's a good example. He's obviously much bigger than Robertson, but he doesn't get hit. Patrick Kane doesn't get hit. All these guys are evasive when they're smaller. There's not a lot of guys who are small and playing. He's trying to play Brooby style.

It's not his game. That's not going to work for him trying to be a big guy. Okay, we've only got a few minutes here, but let's talk about Craig Brooby and his latest Austin Matthew matthews his captain's update coming back for the game this week or austin yeah um i do not see him for the game this week has he been able to skate in this couple last couple days here no no okay you had a tweet that people are just killing me for what would you tweet this is ridiculous he's not playing no that they're just hiding everything why is this so clandestine yeah

nfl teams list they're all their injury reports and it's a pen time more violently you can't even compare why not because it's a more violent league uh i know and it's just nfl that's what they've done all these years and uh betting's been a part of that for no one gambles in the history if betters now complained like i i was with somebody the other day it's like the leafs are killing my fantasy team because you don't know whether they're drop them or trade them or I don't know what they do in fantasy, but you have no choice because you think he's coming back the next game and he's not and he's pissed.

But there's no pressure on the league to forward information like the NFL. Well, I mean, the Leafs, they really hacked at McDavid's ankle that whole game. They were just trying to kill his ankle that entire game. They were just really going right after it. To your point, people don't really... It's not Kipper's prime anymore here. Like, guys aren't going to... If you're not giving him a hack and a whack when he goes by you every game,

regardless of what his injury are, you're not doing your job. Like, it's not like in the heat of a game, you're like, oh, my God. While he's trying to dance around you, let me hack him in the back. Are you suggesting that... Playoff oh, my God. While he's trying to dance around, let me hack him in the back. Are you suggesting that – Playoff time, totally different. Two and a half weeks ago when they said day-to-day, they knew it wasn't day-to-day. Are you suggesting that?

Of course. I don't buy that. I don't either. What? I don't buy it. So you think it's a disconnect between Leafs and Matthews situation? I don't think it's a disconnect. It's just not coming around, whatever this thing is.

Exactly. It's just not coming around. Okay. You're like, is your back ready today, pal? No. No, it's not. It's a little stiff. is. Exactly. It's just not coming around. Okay. They're like, is your back ready today, pal? No. No, it's not. It's a little stiff. Yeah.

Okay, tomorrow? We'll try tomorrow. I do think that they would look at the schedule and have Saturday to Saturday one game in between and say, okay, we'll just miss that one game

and it gives you a whole week, but I would like to see him on the ice. You know, if he doesn't play on Saturday, I think there's... On Sunday. Yeah. It's think there's... On Sunday.

It's Wednesday against Vegas and then Utah. You can see them looking at this rest period, but that's pretty concerning. You play a month of hockey without... Yeah. While claiming to be day-to-day, something lingering that long is not great. We have a second one.

Is that any worthwhile? What's the second one? Matthew's update two? Yeah, play it. Sure. I think it's a little bit of a holding pattern, but he's not getting worse. So that's a good thing.

It just takes time. It's just taking time. It's taking long. But it is what it is. And, you know, he's doing what he needs to do to get back in the lineup and get healthy. And our team needs to just push on without him right now i can only imagine like like the team around him to get him healthy right now

oh my god right there's better there's better than nascar crew just people formula one they're spending a few dollars on him getting healthy like 15 people in white coats walking around one of those game ready like ice compression things at all times. Doctor, doctor, doctor, doctor. And doctor. And before we end our Leafs hour, we do have an update on Cali Yarn

Croc. Craig Berby, clip 7 please. Yeah, tough on Yarny right from camp obviously and you know it's, he's got to get it fixed and um he'll be out a while but you know it's too bad because um he's a player that we liked and can help us and um really haven't had that opportunity to do that he underwent groin and sports hernia

surgery today it's listed as month to month. I got hurt at the end of the year that I had 17 goals. I missed like eight or ten games. It cost me my 20-goal season. And I could not even get out of bed. It was that painful. And I needed six months to heal it. You don't think it was the yarn carter?

I don't know. I don't know what the surgery can do for you. I passed on the surgery. Kali Kucherov? And it got better. Okay, stick around. Elliott Friedman, Hockey Night in Canada, next. National.