Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Overtime Obstacles

Episode Date: January 12, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off with the Leafs' loss to the Islanders in overtime last night,  concern levels over the team's inability to win in regulation, McCabe's overtime disaster class and Keefe overthinking his OT rotation. Later, theorizing on who will get the net in the back-to-back on Saturday and Sunday. Finally, Avalanche analyst Aarif Deen (33:55), tees up their matchup tomorrow against the Leafs and discusses Jonathan Drouin's career resurgence, Landeskog's progress in rehab and what's up with the locker room drama for the perennial playoff squad.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

it's friday you know what that means off the rails on the real kipper and born show that kiprios sporting his 1980 salesman shirt justin bourne and what about me sammy mckee derrick brandeo Jen Rolnick, all with you for the next two hours. We'll start off with the Leaf edition, of course, into our show, and then we'll move it towards Doug McClain, who's got the Friday reputation all to himself to completely drive us into a ditch. Yeah, it's really good to start the show by setting the bar low and seeing if Doug can get under it.

Okay. And speaking of low, I didn't describe your look today as a 1980s salesman. You did. Would you like to join my bowling team? So let me get this straight. I personally love it. You look honky, I think. I think you look good.

You wake up and you had a couple of choices and that's the one you went with. This guy was taking cuts day in the sim for sure. So I did. I went to the sim today. You got to wear a collar. Swim the golf clubs a little bit. No need to further explain.

If there's a golf simulator involved, then we welcome in your shirt. I was in Hawaii in my mind, hitting it off with volcanic lava today. Kapalua? One that sounds like that, but isn't that? Oh, no. Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. Well, wherever you're watching and listening,

Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus, we're glad you are with us for the next two hours. It'll be fun. And as always, we welcome in your texts, especially on a Friday when we really start running out of gas in the last 15 or 20 minutes. Please send in your texts. Sammy will be more than happy

To read them And in about 30 minutes We'll also tee up The Colorado Avalanche who are in play This weekend for the Toronto Maple Leafs Arif Dean will join us Arif Dean will join us from Mile High Sports He also hosts a podcast

Hockey Mountain High Avalanche podcast. We'll get an update on how good this Avs team is. Landis Cog is skating a little bit. We need an update there. For a really good team, there's a lot of drama things with that team. It's kind of

exciting. You think about what happened with Rantanen and Lekkonen earlier in the year. Paves calling out the whole team landis kog may be back you know gorgiev leads the league and starts this year's 34 starts and wins and the weirdest thing because like they seem to be scuffling not doing great then you check the standings they're 27 and 12 yeah they're right eight one and one in their last 10. Three points back of the Winnipeg Jets, who have won eight games in a row. So they're right there. Okay.

Leafs blow a two-goal lead. Leafs can't close out in regulation. Kind of seen this movie before. Yeah. You know, they obviously had some failings last night in special teams or something. I know we're going to get to at some point. But I do think they played a pretty good hockey game last night i thought it was a good hockey game period but you know by you know sort of the fancy metrics in my own eye test i thought the leaves had a you know

brought a pretty good effort they outchanced the islanders and yeah disappointing to see them not get two points last night because i thought they played well enough to get them both um yeah i thought i think that keep mentioned yesterday that coming off the sharks games it might be a bit of an adjustment it felt like it for the first bit of the first period maybe the first 15 minutes of the first period where you're like oh the other team gets to have the puck now too and we have to adjust to that fact because they played what was it ducks sharks sharks three in a row where they had the puck the entire game for three straight games so they had to kind of adjust but yeah i agree i thought they they played pretty well and you know matthew's brilliance and their way we go but yeah it's pretty good game yeah

and nice to see their fourth line becoming relevant you know that mcmahon group i know holmberg's kind of been playing third line at times but you know mcmahon ripping one in getting harder for ryan reeves to get back in that lineup, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think with the way certain players have kind of stepped up a little bit, it's going to be real tough. But here we are barely halfway through the season, and it's pretty incredible how much time we've spent so far

on overtime conversations when you consider that three-on-three hockey is nowhere to be seen in the playoffs. And yet, I would imagine through Leaf Nation on social media or even your post-game show, how much time was spent on that overtime and mccabe starting and why the leafs blew a chance for an extra point a very important extra point and how it went down and i i think we should start there uh because a lot of question marks on Jake McCabe. Sorry, did I say Brian? I don't know.

I think you said Jake. Okay. I don't know. I didn't hear Brian. So a lot of people, first question, where's Morgan Riley to start? Watching last night, I can't recall in all my days watching three on three anybody have maybe

a worst three on three shift in overtime than jake mccabe had last night it was a disaster it was not pretty not pretty no no a disaster oh i'm gonna save. I'm going to save him on one aspect of this. I know ugly going back in the puck and makes a bad pass, right? No, well, the first, Matthews bumped it back, and I think it went through his legs. It went through the middle of his stick blade. That's Buckner for the Red Sox stuff. A little lower stakes, I'd say. Lower stakes, but a little comparable.

Okay. Yeah. Comparable in the fact it went through his legs, sure. Right. Okay. In that one aspect. Okay, go. Yeah, so he goes back, bad pass.

The face-off play, I've never watched a guy who's on the ice to be the defensively responsible guy line up in a situation where it's he's mine, he yours he's yours and then get beat off the wall for a goal but i watched that play back and it looks like the islanders win the puck back to is it dobson who makes the play or whatever matthews wins that off mccabe's skate he he shoots it so hard to the wall that it bounced off yeah it hits him so mccabe's like oh is it my feet and that gave him the time. But it's not like...

It's not a clean win, though. It's not a huge win. It went to the side almost as a 50-50 puck. For sure. And it hit McCabe. But my point is that McCabe, if it were a clean loss, McCabe would just back up and take Barzal. He actually thought he was going to make a play on the puck.

And by the time he looked down, Barzal's behind him. I don't know. He did delay. And was it because he lost play on the puck and by time he looked down barzell's behind i don't know he he did he did delay and was it because he lost sight of the puck for a split second i think it was just like oh it's here oh it's gone oh i'm in trouble you know it all kind of happened bang bang and how about the bounce off his skate land into like a pillow on dobson stick yeah like right in the sweet spot to put it on barzell to end up in the net barzell makes kind of a sweeping backhand. He makes a really nice play to finish it.

Still, the Leafs have now been in overtime 16 times this season with four forwards who make a bajillion dollars and a great defenseman, and they've won four of 16 games. They won an additional four in the shootout. So eight goals. Four of 16 in the actuals.

We can chalk up to maybe McCabe with an unlucky bounce off of the faceoff. Yeah, it's still not great. But he will never quarterback in the NFL when you're throwing balloons like that for the icing. That one was really, really bad. And, you know, Sammy, when I got in today, was doing the griping about overthinking it just morgan out there that's the thing that when you play so many of these games

you like remember when he talked about earlier in the year they didn't even practice it yeah he's like oh we barely even practice it and then it's like oh they started playing more and more and they started practicing more and more the more you practice something and the more you do something the more likely you are to overthink it it's like the review process where they're like we're gonna watch it a hundred times yeah we're gonna watch this thing a hundred times we'll spend 15 minutes like connor said and we're gonna change our minds on something he's had all these different opportunities and it's like let's try camp out there let's try little grin how about you just put morgan riley who's maybe their best or second best three on three player he's so good three on three him and willie are probably their

two best why is he not starting it's an insane like and it's one point it's in the regular season but it's really bad coaching decision it just is i think he has so go ahead can you go i think he has such little face faith in the defensive interest of his forwards. He does not trust that Matthews, Marner, Neal, and Tavares will be thinking defense, that he thinks he needs someone on the ice who will. It's three on three. Yes.

Nobody thinks defense. Well, no. I'm with JB a little bit on this. If there's any explanation that I could think of on why McCabe was with Marner and Matthews, it's because I think he might've wanted Riley with Tavares and Nylander next, who had, in my opinion, terrible, terrible game. Yeah. Terrible. They weren weren't they weren't solid at all

tavaris got caught i think after the second period on a almost two minute shift and they were just they weren't in it and tavaris had some his skates were heavy last night can i just a quick aside i really liked willie's like not first kind of coasty game to not come. Immediately after the contract. Two days after the contract. I'm not saying that's who he is, but I wouldn't have minded it if it wasn't like, you know. Was Sheldon thinking, I'll have Morgan, my best guy, out with them

just to cover their off night? Well, and it could also be if you look at the islanders offensively if you can get past you know uh horvat and barzal it's pretty thin after that so maybe it's like matthews and marner can handle the big dogs and then yeah riley's our best d we put them out with a couple of guys you can score. Maybe we get him in the second wave. So we've seen the pattern of two forwards and a D, right? Yeah. So if we were to go down the depth chart of the Toronto Maple Leafs, I got Morgan, my first guy.

I got Lilligren ahead of McCabe. Lilligren would be, I totally agree. It's not a physical battle type of game. He can move the puck. He's at mobile. That's a great point. Yeah, why isn't Lilligren out there? would be i totally agree it's not a physical battle type of game he can move the puck he's at mobile that's a great point yeah why isn't lily out there why is yeah i don't know so where is mccabe he lands third yeah i'm pro mccabe but yeah yeah i think i have him over brody brody to me is guys playing with a broomstick not not not not there you mean he's just he's struggling where are we

on the legitimately worried about this guy scale because he's gonna have to play 22 and okay i don't want to keep beating up mccabe here uh but i do want to just talk a little bit about the icing and just forcing something so he throws a pass a a 150-foot pass into Matthews, who's got double coverage. And there was an ice-level view of Mitch Marner at the blue line giving it the beaver tap. Yeah, that's why you passed to the other guy.

Let me just tell you something about the beaver tap. Yeah, that's why you passed to the other guy. Let me just tell you something about the beaver tap. Okay? No place for it in the National Hockey League. I'm sorry. Thank you. No place. You can't do it.

It's no good. Minor league stuff. You've got to trust these NHL players. It's not. You can pick the two options and pick the better one. In this situation. He didn't pick the record. Go ahead.

He didn't pick the right option. And this isn't a slate against Mitch Marner. This is a slate against Mitch Marner not having the faith in McCabe to make the obvious play. That's why he's beaver tapping because he doesn't. It's like I'm lost at words this is what i have to resort to for you to make the pass that you're supposed to make hey meathead i'm open hey that's what it is that's exactly what it is and i don't know guys and I get Matthews is on fire okay it is and it to me that's just

McCabe feeling I don't know if it's the pressure to get it into the hands of Matthews or what but there's a sense right now that everybody feels like hey he's hot get get him the puck just get him the puck he'll go win the game somehow some way and it's like no that's not the way the game of hockey works still even if you are on a historic pace for 70 or 80 goals it just it don't is everybody now just hey give it to matthews he'll he fix everything. I don't know. Was Marner stopped at that point? I didn't see the angle you're talking about, Sam. Was Marner stopped? He had him right up the wide open.

Two guys, like, it's an easy pass to make. You have an easy zone entry with your best passer. Anyways. Into the zone. Was he feeling the pressure of giving it to Matthews? I think he just made a bad pass. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. I think he's out there and he's just like, I don't know.

I'm going to try to make a sick pass. The best thing you can do to get Austin Matthews a goal is to give Mitch Marner the puck. Yeah, I agree. Okay. By the way, Matthews last night, those two goals are to come the game after he shot one through the back of the net against San Jose to then

demonstrate those soft hands those are pretty slick finishes the play how high can he get the play that impressed me the most on that goal wasn't the soft hands it was the play along the boards i think number who's three pellick yeah yeah yeah he ate him up he did he absolutely ate him up with the body first and then he absolutely owned him in front of the net to me that is that's what you want to see that's that's the matthews i want to see yeah and right to the blue paint after i mean not great d by the i thought it was fantastic in terms of then you must have loved that's the playoff pontus turning the puck over on the second one hey yeah we'll get into pontus uh bit of a soft play by we'll get into that the puck he robbed him with one hand like stopped basically it's kind of a but what do you think

about matthews when he scores the nice goal those the nice patience blowing the celebration makes the goal not as nice for me yeah it's too You know, like he's down to the little crouch and he falls forward into the boards. Like when they show that one on the highlight reel, it's like ah, crap, that looks stupid. Cut it before that. Because he was right as he did the little crouch that he does. He hit a little right.

What do you even care about that? Because it just looked funny. It's like he makes him look human. Like this guy's a godlike hockey player. All he does is score and he goes down to do a little celebration he stumbles i thought it was funny okay let's get uh sheldon keefe's overall views you clearly got ours in the first 15 minutes let's hear what sheldon keefe has to say for the first kippers clipper i thought it took us a little bit uh but the back half of the first period i thought we were we were pretty good there i thought five one five were pretty good in the game not perfect but pretty good and have a pretty

significant advantage and in the scoring chances at five on five but special teams are rotten tonight that uh power play penalty kill over time it's how it costs you games. Rotten. You know what everything, all of that has to do with, too? Just winning draws. Matthews lost a lot, I saw last night. And Kempf lost a lot of draws. Overtime. Win a draw.

Uncommon, right? The Leafs are sixth in the nhl and face off percentage but it just seems like yeah and even the power play it looks good overall but it just seems like the timing is never right on those goals yeah i mean last night really not good they're you know in terms of things looking good their special teams aren't great like their power player rate is overall pretty good i think they're also six but they're 24th in penalty killing now which and dropping you know and that's that's problematic getting the playoffs against watching tampa zip it around or the cats i think i know And this is where Kemp has been a lot less consistent than he was last year.

Yeah. And I think Kemp's struggles at times have really led to the penalty kill because he's been such an important guy. For sure. Yeah, he's not quite been as good as he was the season before. I thought that line's been better, though. I thought they were good last night they got a goal mcmahon scored one i thought they looked a lot better and we have a clip about this but you know he's got asked about how he's starting

to trust his bottom six more the ice time last night i don't know if you noticed kipper but in a tie game that goes to overtime and including overtime it's a quick overtime so this that helps all four of the core four were under 20 minutes right so it's like the guys played the most the bottom six guys are starting to come up a little bit so that's good anyways you want to do you want to hear that clip yeah let's go clip three on uh on the trust camp line again tonight like uh was really good and it's a tough night for for that group because them and Domi, the matchups are going to be tough. They matched their fourth line against Matthews the entire night. So that's going to create some tough matchups for the rest of our lineup, you know, when their best people are going to be going against our other lines.

But I really trusted those guys today, gave them the opportunity to meet the challenge. Like I said, the camp line was really good. I also thought the Domi line gave us good minutes as well. Yeah, and I really do think that past versions of the Toronto Maple Leafs fourth line have looked like guys who don't necessarily want to be fourth liners. We've discussed this. Joe Thornton, Jason Spezza, you know, even Wayne Simmons is a guy

who was an up-the-line-up guy at different points in his career. You look at the fourth line of teams that have won Cups recently, it's Keegan Colazar and William Carrier, you know, those type of guys. And, you know, to me, the Leafs are finding a bit of this with McMahon, with Holmberg. Kampf is a bit of a luxury fourth-line item, but they're getting closer to a fourth line that looks like a good one yeah i don't know yeah you're no no i'm with you with the progress that individuals have made yeah but

once you get past matthews and tavaris then i'm not sure you could definitively look and say, okay, these guys are the third line and this is the fourth line. There are times when you can switch them. You can move guys up and down. I don't know. When you talk about teams over the past that have identified the pecking order of their depth, and it's like, well, I'll tell you who was on the fourth line there.

I can't say that about the Leafs. No no you're right because camp will end up playing 15 minutes on the fourth line while the other guy the wingers will play 12 you'd be scared to death right now to start the playoffs with the toronto maple leaf forwards as is max domey's not going to be a third line so you got max on the fourth line and then you have camp no on the third line i have domey on the third line to preserve a fourth camp on the third line i have domey on the third line to preserve a fourth line that you can use differently okay so what you're telling me is we just we're not there yet they have not sure so that to me is an issue right now because you're going in the back half of the season and you've got two third lines or you got two fourth lines

or you got like who is gonna be to be your all important checking line? Who's being groomed for that? So going, you're right. It's still work in progress. Going into the second half, you're talking about, we're looking for this fourth line center, this one, this person or whatever. Going into the first half of the season,

you didn't have Holmberg or McMahon. You had them on the Marlies. They were gone and out of the picture and now fault is that i mean if you ask the team they'll tell you it's the players they'll tell you the homework i'm gonna tell you right now like it's the team's fault yeah i told you guys and i got laughed at because i told you pontus holmberg listen we i still think there's there's teams that just missed the boat on this guy, on how good this guy or the potential to be good for this guy is.

I got laughed out of it. Oh, offer sheet. He's in the minors. Listen, his progress by putting him in the minors, you've actually delayed the work that you've put into him already he should be ahead of where he is now in his progress to me this guy has shown in the last little while just snippets of of how good he can be now i don't know what that means moving forward 24 but we've got a we got a a clip a kipper's clip from austin matthews regarded as one of the best players in the world listen to the scouting report from austin matthews on holmberg yeah i mean we've

gotten pretty familiar with him since he's uh you know kind of made the jump up uh and been called up a few times like last year and stuff like that but i mean he's incredible incredible player like his skill levels uh you know it's up there with uh some of the best guys i've seen honestly so um you know he's got a great stick and really good anticipation he made a nice play to knock the puck away and i just happen to be in a good spot to get it and just go in one-on-one with the boy can he also scout for the Leafs? Because I think he's got a pretty sharp eye. Well,

Martin said he's his favorite player in the league. The day before. They see this guy at practice. He's got some skill. He's a stocky frame. He's, you know. Incredible skill. A guy that has incredible skill is calling somebody else out as incredible skill.

One of the best guys I've seen. It is strange how much they like him. Can you comprehend on how high of a compliment that is from a guy who's doing what he's doing right now in the game of hockey? I guess he would just be like, if he didn't feel that way, what would he say? Is he just trying to be nice to him? I don't think so. That's what I'm asking. No, no.

The answer is no. You don't put your balls on the line with comments like that because he's a buddy of yours because you hang out. It is a different level of compliment. It's huge. And also, Marner saying that he's his favorite player in the league yesterday or the day before. You know, unless it's outright sarcastic

and you think the guy sucks you probably think you know you probably like the guy legitimately a little bit so they they think the guy can play so okay i don't know where these guys are going to be in the lineup come april 17th i don't know if they'll be in holmberger mcmahon but it sure feels like you have options now i've always had this thing with the fourth line where I want guys that are prime aged, who are like kind of 25, 6, 7, 8, somewhere in that window. Fringe guys who are happy to be on the fourth line, happy to be in the league, four check, big, all those things, make league minimum.

Just be your worker bees and be content being there. Those guys fit that mold to me. They're not trying to play their way into some other spot. But they've got some decisions eventually they're going to have to get to. Do you have to wait to March after the trade deadline, before that? But you've got to start grooming these kids to know their role, their job. You don't think outside of it. This is what we need you to do that's with mcmahon you're

not a scorer anymore i don't know we love it but does mcmahon know exactly now i think he's starting to understand it i see him get his nose a little dirtier lately uh he's shooting the puck in the net he's passed by running running like the, I think, the last little while in the game is the fact that third and fourth liners think that they're first and second liners in waiting. Yes. Totally agree, and that's the point I'm trying to make, too. This is just do the thing you're here to do, and we will keep you.

William Carrier has been, I don't even know if it's a Carrier. Is he a French guy? I think it's Carrier. Carrier has been with Vegas for, like, if it's a Carrier. Is he a French guy? Thanks, Carrier. Carrier has been with Vegas for like six years. Just plays in their fourth line. In beast mode. Does his role. Stay in the NHL.

Keep cashing those checks. Living in Vegas. Sounds okay. Win a cup. Okay. I know we got a few minutes before we go to break. We got to just have a goaltending conversation here, guys, because, like, Martin Jones was okay,

but probably a little bit more of the Martin Jones that 30... Not to be Mr. Goalie guy here, but, I mean, the first one's bad, but what other ones do you want him to have? The Romanov one. Oh, he shoots it under the bar from the hash marks. He's outside the dots. Can I just say something? The hash marks.

On the left side. This is a team. Yeah. This is a team when you let a bad goal in, they lose. Okay? They can't afford bad goals. Yeah, but it's Martin Jones. Like, I just.

You're right. And no one is saying, like, good goalies don't let in bad goals or this is enough to whatever. It's just like, he wasn't good last night. The Leafs might be. Yeah, sure. Like, okay. Two bad ones. Yeah. Two to whatever. It's just like he wasn't good last night. The Leafs might be, yeah, sure. Like, okay. Two bad ones. Yeah. Two bad ones. One tip, not his fault. Bing barred down

the other ones. Huge test for everybody Saturday night for Martin Jones against Colorado. Going against some pretty talented people and McKinnon and McCurry. It'll go a long way to suggest that he can still

hold the fort for a little while but we know he's not starting against detroit it would be crazy someone else coming off the islanders and colorado to go to him i love it you and i are on that game and we're getting someone new in so oh my god this is your sake was this is where game had samson off this is columbus this is where it gets really tricky for the Toronto Maple Leafs. What is going to change in their mindset from today to after Saturday night where you have to decide is it going to be Samsonov or is it going to be Hildeby? Does it matter to you if Hildeby gives up zero or seven

goals tonight because he's playing in the american league uh maybe that's a factor but at the end of the day it won't change that if you go for you go to samsonov this is going to be this would be if samsonov starts sunday it will be like it will be a break point i don't know if it'll be a make point more so than uh a delay to the next start for samsonov but if you go samsonov and he gets shelled again he may not play again the rest of the year for the least i think if he gets shelled or it he may not play again the rest of the year for the Leafs. I think if he gets shelled or does not look good on Sunday, but more importantly then, I think it sets up to really have questioned his last week, 10 days.

How so? I mean, well. He hasn't played a game. Oh, you're saying, yeah, but he stunk before that too. So how can you say that 10 days did something? I'm saying that I would have liked him to actually play tonight for the Marlies. Get one game in. Yeah.

Like if, so between what he's gone through, clearing waivers and all that, he has not played a pro game. So I think I, you can't play him. You can play him in the Marlies. you can't play him. You can play him in the Marlies. You can't play him on Sunday night. There are 58 qualified goaltenders in the NHL this season. He is 57th in his numbers.

It's malpractice. You're trying to win hockey games. You can't put him in there. You have to go to another option. If they put him in there, it's a mistake. Then you have to have decided that you can't use him and you need to move on from him. Sure. If that's where you're at.

It is. And if you're not there, then you have to play him. This is not a... It's one of two things. You're either over him or he's got to play. It's not a four-year deal, Borny. It's not a four-year deal. You have him for...

It's not a one-year contract. He has been wretched this season he has cost him multiple hockey games yes here's what i don't like isn't playing a lot of hockey because six go in every night here's how i see it he has two starts to not have a bad game if he has if they put him in on sunday and he's bad or they put him in the week after he's bad oh no he doesn't get a week after if he's bad sunday no i'm saying but let's say he's good on sunday and then the next night he goes out and stinks it's still he's got to go he's got to put together at least two good starts maybe three or four yeah like he has to have a run of success or it's to gain any trust at all moving towards march or april he's gonna

have to string a few games here one of two things is happening if samson off plays on April, he's going to have to string a few games here. One of two things is happening if Samsonov plays on Sunday. He's going to give up three in the first eight minutes, or he's going to shut out. And guess what? I would rather him give up a crappy goal or three on eight shots in front of 800 people. Yeah, that's another part of this. Than 17,000 at Scotiabank Arena waiting for

us to do the first intermission. And we now go live to Nick Kiprios. Your thoughts. It's just... You know what I'm saying? To go in early, you're talking about a guy with a... We're talking about his mental health and how bad it's been and how horrible

the season he's had offensively, off the ice, everything. To go in in what's that building gonna do 17 000 people raining booze down on this guy yeah it's you cannot start this is this is the ultimate rolling the dice oh yeah it is a truly horrible move to put him in net on sund night. Let him be let in six. I don't care. You know, the expression, you know, giving a guy the rope to hang themselves sort of thing, this is the hand on the rope and say, either go be good,

you can stay in the NHL, or make the decision for us. You're trying to catch Florida. You're trying to catch. You're not in a development season. As a management team, you've got a responsibility at least to attempt to put these guys in a position to succeed. I'm not sure what starting Samson off Sunday at home after being off all this time without any game action have you considered maybe they think he's a good goal do you you you pull the how many players play for the Leafs how many guys would say

hey who do you want who do you want in that on Sunday how many are voting he'll to be Petro Zelli how many are voting like yeah it's a i just know you can't start martin jones this often and not expect to see more of what you saw against the islanders so i think we're gonna see the beast he'll be on sunday every time we say yes we're wrong okay i'm actually saying yes for the first time ever for what the beast yes yes i you can't do samson but hold on i know we have to go but like then what do you do with samson off if you're starting hill to be over him send samson off back down play him in the minor you just uh you just continue the same story we're working on him and he's got more time now and that's all you just keep buying time keep kicking

the can down the road compromising pictures of your family? Like, if you don't think he can play, move on. I don't know. Anyway. Well, you got to know what you have. Before you make that decision, you got to know what you have. That's where it starts. Game one for the Hilda Beast.

Okay, we're going to take a quick break. Arif Dean covers the Avalanche. Will join us after the break. Of course, Off the Rails Friday means Doug McClain at the top of the hour. Plenty of more on Real Kipper and Bourne. Don't go away. Get smarter when you listen to Hockey Talk, the Hockey PDO cast with Dmitry Filipovich.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Kipper is Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, the real Kipper and Bourne show. As promised, Arif Dean, who covers the Colorado Avalanche, does a great job at Mile High Sports, also has the podcast Hockey Mountain High. The Avalanche joins us now. Arif, how are you, pal?

Thanks for joining us, of course. I'm doing well. Thanks a lot, guys. Good. You know, Colorado's been this team, you know, for the last little while, much like the way we thought of San Jose all those years, is just automatic. A contender and one that can certainly be there when it's all said and done.

The feeling is mutual still going into this season, maybe with a question mark in goal. Where do you see Colorado in the mix with, say, the Stanley Cup champion Vegas. So it's a great question to ask coming off a game two nights ago where the golden Knights were here in Denver. The abs were able to shut them out three, nothing. I know Vegas is kind of dealing with some injury issues, but the avalanche this year are an interesting case because let's compare it

to a season ago when you guys had me on. They had the top-end talent. They were playing well, relying on McKinnon, Rantanen, and Makar, but the depth just wasn't there. The injuries were kind of hampering the team's depth, lowering the lineup, even their decor. Manson and Byron played like a combined 60 regular season games last year. Coincidentally, both those guys might miss the game tomorrow in Toronto. But this year just seems different. are like you said there is a question mark a little bit in goal what team doesn't have that right now for most of the contenders uh they still have that

ryan johansson second line center question mark but they have the pieces when you compare them to vegas when you compare them to other top teams they're right there in terms of are they perfect like the 2022 avalanche no but i don't think any team is and the reality of what the nhl looks like right now they don't need to be that team they are a little bit flawed like other contenders but they are up there with the top give us an assessment of their new additions this season jonathan drouin was a big name, you know, added. Obviously, Ryan New Hanson that you mentioned, big name. Even Colton from Tampa Bay. Keep your eye on him.

Tell us about the new guys and how they have fared as Avalanche players. So, Ross Colton, I'll start with him. Him and Miles Wood on the third line are giving you pretty much exactly what you wanted from them, somewhere around that 28 to 40-point range, playing hard-nosed, high-energy hockey with Logan O'Connor, who is always a fun guy to play with. And then going up the lineup from there, they had Tomas Tatar. That lasted about a month and a half, two months, and then he was off to Seattle.

Starting with Jonathan Drouin, he started the season really slow. It kind of felt like it wasn't going to work. The first 10 games he had one assist and it was literally the secondary assist on the first goal of the season and then nothing after that. He was healthy scratched a couple of times, but then something clicked and now Jonathan Drouin, he's playing games where he's playing 23, 24 minutes a night. Incredible. Back on that.

Yeah, he's been playing well. It's actually quite impressive. He's on that top line riding shotgun with McKinnon and Rantanen. It's allowing them to play Natchushkin on the second line. He's on that top power play unit. If you guys saw the highlights of the power play that they had against the Vegas Golden Knights, like just like chef's kiss puck movement. And Jonathan drew and as a part of that,

and now he's got 13 points in his last 13 games and he's playing well, he's, he's looking like a 40, 50 point guy. Uh, there are people in my mentions asking me when the avalanche are going to resign this guy and give him a long-term deal because the fit is there. Uh,

so it's been a complete one on jonathan drew and i would say since maybe early december until now um ryan johansson is the bigger question mark i know kipper you you questioned uh the acquisition when when you guys had me in the summer and it's it's just not working and and i don't think there's anything there about johansson being a careless player or not necessarily putting in the work. It's just the foot speed that he has compared to how this team plays is just not there. There are games where he's playing 10 or 11 minutes. There are games where he has the fewest ice time heading into the third period of like, you know, all forwards not named Curtis McDermott.

It's just not working despite him having, I think, 11 goals now in less than a half a season. We're talking to Arif Dean, who covers the Colorado Avalanche for Mile High Sports, also has a podcast, Hockey Mountain High, covering the same Avalanche as they get set to take on the Toronto Maple Leafs, a game that you can see on Hockey Night in Canada.

So lots of talk, Arifif on Gabe Landis Cog skating again and the last I had heard that this wasn't a typical injury that you just know for sure he's going to be coming back where is his status as far as you're concerned and is this is this progressing to the point where people are optimistic he will play again or is this uh still let's wait and see situation it's it's absolutely still wait and see it's it's far too early to tell obviously there's been a lot of talk about the knee cartilage transplant on his right knee it's the same injury that uh and surgery and procedure that Lonzo Ball had in the NBA. And Lonzo hasn't played since 2022 as well.

So where we're basically at with Gabe Landis-Gogg is he literally took the ice yesterday. So the Avalanche took off on their flight today, this morning to Toronto. Yesterday morning, they had an optional practice, which usually most of media takes the option i was there and the first person on the ice was gabe landis gog and it was his first time on the ice since may 11th when he had that procedure done of 2023 basically the the news we got from jared bednar is you know it's been kind of leading up to this he's been telling us in a lot of post games and morning skates that gabe is getting closer to finally taking the ice. And what he said yesterday was this is the next step in his progress.

Has he suffered any setbacks? No. Is he at a point now where you can clearly say when he's going to come back or what the next step is? Also, no. He's kind of the progress is going as it should up to this point. The reality is there could be a setback at any point. And I believe it was in the summer, Chris McFarland told us, the general manager, that as soon as he suffers a setback, it's back to square one.

So they're kind of just playing it case by case. I did see Chris McFarland did not tell us this, but I did see he spoke with Frank Cerevalli and told him that the initial prognosis that they got for Landis Scott coming out of the surgery was 12 to 16 months. So if you're talking 12 months, you're looking at that date I just gave you, May 11th, 2023. So May 11th, 2024. So you're talking second round of the playoffs, maybe game four or five or six of the second round if the Avalanche get there. You get to 13 months. You get to 14 months.

Well, you're already into July. So the idea of him coming back this year, I would say is kind of, it's more hope than anything, but I don't see it. I think to me, the best case scenario is to have a healthy and ready Gabe Landeskog for training camp in September. But with hockey players, it's never say never.

With athletes, it's never say never. With surgeries that are kind of new and unfamiliar, you know, think back to Jack Eichel last year or two years ago. There's always a groundbreaking person. So could we see Gabe in May? Maybe. But at this point, there's no guarantee he's ready in May. And quite frankly, there's no guarantee his career is going to be what it was. You know, I think Mark Mathot has spoken publicly. He actually tweeted me and spoke with me a little bit yesterday about how when he came back from the surgery, he did get his opportunity to play a couple of games. But then in his recovery, the knee swells up from the same exact procedure by the same

exact doctor. And then he's just unable to play for one or two weeks and then you know ultimately ended his career so it's all still just a giant question mark and it is absolutely heartbreaking for that guy i'm so glad he got to have that cup in 2022 but you know he's dying to get back out there well that is a fascinating storyline to watch obviously such a big part of the colorado avalanche um you know watching the abs from afar this season and having expectations on them to be very good as they have been um it has been unusual to see the odd little bit of drama we heard uh ranting in talk a little bit

about leckanen's dad at one point and then we saw devin taves talk a bit about guys in this room who think they're playing well. They don't have a clue. Is there any fire to the smoke that we're hearing out of that locker room? So it seems to be all good and no bad. And I was actually very fascinated with kind of how that all unraveled, the Rantanen thing, and then Devon Taves.

It may have been like a week and a half later. It was very quickly after the Lekanen and Rantan thing. Obviously, Yzmo Lekanen, the father. But ultimately, the vibe that we get out of the room is this is a locker room that holds itself to a high standards. The leader holds them to a high standards. It runs through the lead-by example of Nathan McKinnon in terms of on ice and off ice and how he takes care of his body and himself and how he's there at every optional practice skating regardless. But in the room, it just seems like anything that spills out are things that were already discussed internally where you're not really catching any teammates by surprise. And that was one thing that I specified with, with, uh, coach Jared Bednar back, uh, after the Devon Taves comments, when they came back from that road trip that they were on where he said them, um, I basically asked him because Devon was very precise. It's, it's

guys that, you know, we have 20 guys out there, 14 of them. I think he said that are playing the system. And there's a few other guys that are just kind of doing their own thing. And you never really know what you're going to get. And the question i had for bednar was when the other teammates hear this is there anybody that's hearing it that's kind of questioning is he talking about me or do the guys know and he made it pretty clear that the guys that devon is singling out no and the way that he did it wasn't in like a very i don't know wasn't he wasn't attacking anybody it was kind of very calm and cool it was very fascinating but the way that he did it just kind of made it seem like it wasn't gonna cost a stir the ranting and lacking in thing was the one

that just caught us all by surprise yes completely out of nowhere it was so out of the blue miko after he spoke i was talking to i was in a scrum with media with Nathan McKinnon after Rantanen had spoke and he had left. And then he came back in with the Avalanche's PR and he was kind of asking, where's the reporter that had the camera? Where's the reporter? And then, you know, it was a gentleman that works at DNVR.

And he looked at him and said, you recorded when I said what I said about the Finnish father. And he said, yeah. said, you recorded when I said what I said about the Finnish father. And he said, yeah. And like the kid was kind of taken aback. It's his first year in the media room. And he was like, yeah, do you want me to not use it? He goes, no, clip it, post it. I want it everywhere. I want it posted everywhere. And he walked out of the room and we all kind of were walking toward the media lounge where Jared Bednar speaks. And we're like, what in the world is going on?

And then you show up the next morning and Rantanen's his same jolly self as if nothing happened. So he wanted that out there. It sounds like it was the kind of drama that it meant something to him locally in Finland because he cares about his reputation there. But in terms of him and Lekkonen, I mean, I see him and Lekanen walking out of the rink all the time. Arturi hasn't played since those comments were made. He had a neck injury back in November

and has been out since. He is getting closer. He is in Toronto with the team. He might play on the back end of this road trip. So definitely not tomorrow. But I've seen them walking together. I've seen them chatting after games.

So I don't think there's anything there between Arturi and Mikko other than like a a fun like hey tell your dad to comment down kind of thing so it was just completely out of the blue eric we only got about 30 seconds to go here so but just real quick here okay uh and it's with miko rantanen who's one of the best wingers in the game today who happens to need a new contract just suppose he noticed a certain winger here in toronto who signed for 92 million dollars yep anybody talking about that question yep i was waiting for that question uh uh what's his name neil ender got 11.5 miko ranton got 12.6 do the math math. Calculate it. Average it out.

Mikko Rantanen will be somewhere in the middle. That's going to be the prediction that I have. I don't think he will go above Nathan McKinnon. Kael McCarr is a different scenario because he's a year later. We'll see where Kael McCarr lands. I don't know if Mikko Rantanen is going to hit 12.6. I also think he will get more than William Nylander. Arif, great stuff buddy thanks

for doing this awesome thanks so much man appreciate it enjoy the game saturday night fun team dean from mile high sports jonathan drew and it's got to be comeback story of the year yes it's no one's talking but it's kind of jumped out to me with him mentioning that guys got 22 points in 40 games he's. He's nine goals, 13 assists. Like, he was written off. Can I give you his TOI by month? In November, 13-15. December, 13-43.

In January, 17-36. This month, 23-33 through five games. He played 28 minutes the other night. Yeah, he's him and McKinnon. Must be Alan Walsh, right? Best agent out there, man. He's promoting them. And look, he's playing and McKinnon from the Alan Walsh, right? Best agent out there, man. He's promoting them. And look, he's playing 24 minutes now.

And to be honest, like the connection with McKinnon from Halifax, like they were together. They were on one of the best junior teams of all time. Probably a guy that can tell them what to do, right? Anyways, got a quick all-star game right here for you guys. From February 1st to the 3rd, all-stars are back in Toronto for the NHL All-Star Weekend. We'll be giving away tickets to the different events

and episodes today until January 26th. Today, we have tickets for the NHL All-Star Thursday, which includes a PWHL three-on-three showcase, the NHL All-Star Player Draft, and a tribute to the 1967 Leafs. To enter for a chance to win, text today's code word PWHL to 59590. And we have another code word in Monday's episode.

So be sure to tune in. That's PWHL for the code word. I'm telling you right now, the hottest ticket is going to be the skills competition. I hear they want all the big boys in it. The most talented players. Connor, Austin, McKinnon.on you keep going they're chasing a million dollars well i mean keep listening to our show because we're gonna be giving away tickets

eventually i know they make they've made hundreds of millions of dollars but it's that old theory if i'm there i might as well win it 100 can't wait all right eric dean thank you very much for your contribution as we get set for the toronto maple leafs against the colorado avalanche they're led by the nate dog the intensity on this guy is off the charts by the way that's weird love him he's not weird in a good way oh in a very good way yes so looking forward to that all right plenty more still to come on The Real Kipper and Bourne as we go national, led by Doug McClain, when we come back after the break. Plenty to have some fun with.