Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Panic Button

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' bad 5-3 loss to the Boston Bruins. They discuss the team's response to Nikita Zadorov, a lack of team toughness, and whether the Leafs can dig themselves out of this poor stretch. Then, they get into Auston Matthews and Anthony Stolarz's injuries and how the Leafs will fare in their potential absences. Finally, they weigh in on whether the issues stem from coaching or personnel, who is first on the block if the front office starts feeling desperation, and the consequences of potentially missing the playoffs.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

It's the real Kipper and Bourne show. It's the Leaf Edition hour of our program. Nick Kiprio's Justin Bourne, Sammy. I'm waking you up, Sammy. I'm waking you up. We've got to go hard here. He's left right through it. Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jake the Snake Schultz.

We are live on SportsSet 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto and streaming always on SportsStat Plus, always available on a download, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. As we wrapped up our Leaf Hour Edition show yesterday, you Sammy said a nice win in Boston could stave off the wolves. Did I say that? You did, my friend. You did. And on leaf talk last night, I clipped something out of you and J.B. J.D. Bunkus here. Let's have a listen. What is it? Oh, it's a wolf. Oh, I thought it was a motorcycle. I was like, are we got a Harley?

That's a pretty. Sorry to me? I know. I know. What? Oh, yeah. Mr. Mr. Nice guy over here. Never been mean to the least. Like, what are you talking about here? They didn't stave off the wolves. They didn't stave off the wolves. Yeah, they put a big fan on that to the game.

What do you expect me to be like, wow, great effort. Awesome game again. What do you want for me? I'm just, I just thought that we tie in your wolves' comments. I don't think I said, woes, did I? Stave off the wolves. I don't remember saying that. Anyways, we say a lot of things here.

I don't remember anything I say. It's going to steal my will to live. Listen. they have employed a psychotic fan to go on the air moments after multiple horrible games and you get what about not just Steve Dangley you guys go on air too

yeah anyways it's not easy no no it's not easy I mean is this a trial here like no I'm gonna at least talk for three years I said a lot of bad things no it's not just you it's us as well we talked about how a big game could turn things around for them in Boston an environment that has not been kind to them

and it didn't get the job done right my whole point is there are wolves out there right now and you're not one of them I'm probably like are you going to zag and say that it was a good game like what's going on here there's no comparison

there's nothing all I'm saying is today that the wolves are out there on this hockey club. Yeah, listen, you can't walk down the street. If people know what you do for yourself, myself, probably use him as well. It's a tough one right now for this fan base, for this organization. There's been this window of

slow starts or okay and then there's the let them get to know each other to get the chemistry going. Are we still in that window? Are we out of that window? I don't know. Can't do it.

I don't know. We've got an hour here. If you're talking about there's window talk, the window is slamming shut if we're talking about any windows here, but I don't know. They're really hard to watch. They're really hard to talk about.

They're just a really, it's a really painful experience as a Toronto Maple Leaf fan right now. It just is. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, the whole, give them time,

They're going to need 20 games to sort it all out. We thought that along the way within those games, there would be some answers revealed. Yeah. There haven't been many. The answers that have been revealed have been really concerning about the goaltending, about Austin Matthews, about the defensive play in general.

So, yeah, we're getting close to some of the early stuff. It's like, okay, what can they be, what will they be? And right now I think it's a little concerning that it's like, oh, might they be the 19th best team in the league? and not the ninth or whatever we thought they were going into the year because it's ugly man i i just can't remember them ever looking this bad in their defensive structure and you know when i said that they were back i was of course referring to the first year out of the lockout when they were no good they were overpriced they were

overhyped that's what i meant what they were back to not to being good that's what i was referring to when i said they were back i want to go to craig bruby his thoughts and then we'll get into ours and where the concerns lie. Okay, sounds good. Craig Brew will be on last night's hockey game. They're in there. Clip one. You know, there's still things we can clean up.

Well, we took three penalties. First period, got behind the eight ball. I thought this, you know, the second and third. We competed hard and battled hard, you know, stuck up for each other, did a lot of good things. We just, we just, we needed some kills tonight. We didn't get them. Okay, so there's some greater, the penalty stuff was very real. There's some greater questions about like, does this team have enough talent to, to be good, to contend, whatever.

But I want to talk just a little bit about what we talked about before we went off air yesterday was the Hayes, the door off. hurt Scott Lotton coming down to crush him on the wall. What do you expect to happen tonight? We talked about could it be a fight? Could it be a cross-check to the teeth? Could it be a suspension? Like on this show,

we expected there to be some attention paid to Zedorov off the last one. Yeah. Three minutes into the game, he absolutely buried Nick Robertson. Borderline, you know, maybe he's just bigger than Robertson, fine. But it's in the same spot

whatever. And that's not even the hit I'm talking about. Yes, it was. No, it's not. No, that's a different hit. In my article is a giff of a different hit than this one where... That was Nick Robertson there. That was Nick Robertson, I know.

That's the second time. That happens with five minutes left in the first. I'm talking three minutes into the ice. It happened to Robertson. Fair enough. Benoit sees Robertson gets buried and skates by and goes for a change. And it was like, oh, not only we're not mad about last game, we're not mad about tonight.

And does it matter? Does it affect the outcome? the games, I don't know. Of course it did. Okay. Because that's the same guy that took out your captain. Because you said if nothing happens, he has a credit card to go do whatever he wants to whomever he wants. It's a green light. It's not that hard.

It's not that hard. How come they don't understand that? I know the game's changed over the years, but it hasn't changed that much that you still understand human behavior. Give a child an inch and he takes a yard. Give him a yard. He'll take a my

It's like it's, it's human behavior. No one wants to stand up to this guy at the beginning. He will go run around until he hurts someone else. Soft. No, you're not wrong. And that's exactly how it played out. And we're average guys. We're not geniuses.

How come they can't figure it out? I mean, it's a strange thing. I don't know. And then Matthews has to go back in there and just double up on a message to him. He's the one that has his ass fed into the boards. And he's, and not one other guy. He chased the door of. One other guy can't go and talk to his door off.

It has to be Matthews. Yeah. And then 10 minutes later, Max Domi had been sitting on the bench watching all this being like, oh, that's a bad look on all of us. Someone should do something. And he takes what, I know a lot of people, Sam, yourself, include are happy that someone did something but it is a four three game with five

minutes left or whatever it's six minutes left it's not the time and I don't mind it either but like this is this is 12 minutes left in the game and you're down a goal it's like it's too late

Max you and your teammates it's just way too late for this that was by the way correctly called by the referees I saw some pushback being like, how, like, I don't know, yeah. I mean,

it's just, literally nothing here. It's just, oh, like where is that look and where is that in the first 10 minutes of the hockey game? If Max would have done this and taken an extra two, 10 minutes into the game at zero, zero,

then you go, let's kill it off for Max. But we, we just send him a message and it's, max is just the start. If I'm like, man, I got to go and bump him. I got to go tell him the same thing. It's not a fight.

It's not a stick to the teeth. It's whatever you think you need to do or say to Zedorov to say, not on my watch tonight. And that's how you rally some momentum. And that's how you make your teammates feel better about one another. Not 10 minutes left in the third period when you've been chasing the scoreboard all night. And now, miraculously, you're within one goal, one shot of tying it up when you've been fed your lunch for the majority of the game.

You can't go take a penalty there. Yeah. No, I know. I know. And Sammy, I think you probably, like, felt the emotional, like, okay, glad that something happened. The one that drove me crazy. And, I mean, we can show the, the hit by Robertson, on Robertson, again, the one that Jake had shown earlier.

that play ends up going outside and the whistle blows and that's you know Robertson got plastered by him great hit right but that's a guy I'm sorry but Nyes you're not going to go over there and just like

maybe grab onto him and make it look like you're upset about your teammate just getting plastered he looks at him it's all of Reckman Larson oldest guy in the team's always all over Rickman Larson but it's like why is it always him I know like Nize you're six foot three like you don't have to drop the gloves with the guy just make it look like you're upset

that he buried another one of your teammates into the boards. And people may listen to this and be like, oh, you know, like they still didn't score enough, or, you know, the defensive worries or whatever. It just tells me they're not connected. That they're not on the same page. That's what it tells me. And that's been one of the biggest issues that they've had the whole year.

Let's go to Craig Bruby on the Domi penalty, clip seven, please, Derek. I don't know why he called it. I don't know why he gave Domi the roughing on it, to be honest with you. Because I was watching the referee he didn't have his hand up or nothing his arm up i mean so i thought it was just going to be you know five each for fighting but um he thought that uh he did a little more than the other guy yeah this penalty he could resonate he did a little bit more he did all of it

yeah okay he did everything like what i don't want to come on trotrador do that i don't want to come on Toronto Sports Radio and defends Adora but like It's Right now It's so bad on this club I'll take that emotion Obviously

I didn't like the penalty he took But God at least Why is it always just Max At some point Even if his timing's not right Why is it just him It's not just him though I gotta give credit to Bobby McMahon here

Who's been in the middle of the fight here For the three straight games Or he's actually fought a couple games He was in another scrum last night. He seems to be running around a little bit. Like, I'll give credit to him, too. He's not trying. He's trying to mix it up a little bit.

All right. But where's Joshua? Where's Wong? Where's the biggest guys in the league? And they're Philippe Myers. They're not going to do it, you know, which, by the way, probably a big guy. It would be great if he might try. Benoit, Carlo, Joshua, as you mentioned, Waugh.

These are huge people. The one that bothered me the most, I don't know if you saw Nick Wae take a cross-check. I think it was from Charlie Mat. Yeah, yeah. Another one. He was down and he just cross-checked him. And then there was a scrum and then Nick Gua gets up and just stands there beside him like nothing happened. And I'm just like, I'm sorry.

A guy gets a lick on me like that, all bets are off, buddy. I'm going to, I'll take five games. I'll take five game suspension. I'm sorry, but you just can't get, you can't take that abuse. and just stand there beside them like as if nothing happened Charlie McAvoy You know what's funny is like

this isn't why the Leafs are bad right now Like if you look at all They're in their own end They can't make a breakout They can't make a pass They can't defend a lick These are more important things

However, early in the year team building showing what you're going to be about What you stand for with other teams in the league It's statement time I think it's all linked to that. And I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that.

It's all linked to that. You would be better defensively if you had more pride in not looking like a sap. Mm-hmm. Okay? Yeah. I'm sorry, but you would be better at everything, your attention to detail. It's your pride. In yourself.

You can't treat me like that in front of 20,000 people. If you let people treat you like that and you don't have the pride to stay. stand up then you don't have the pride to play defense you don't have the pride to do anything moving forward collectively as a hockey club i'm sorry but it starts with that stuff and this stuff was supposed to be cleaned up and it's it's it's it's as bad as it's been for how many years now yeah this is 101 this was supposed to get cleaned up i mean that's the the scariest part about it is is that the pivot this offseason was, you know, partly brought on

because they had to, you know, move on from Marner. But they brought in these guys because, you know, their playoff kind of guys who are going to go through the Florida Panthers and, you know, they're going to be able to compete with the bigger teams in the league. We need a little bit more snot to our game. Exactly.

And it's not, like, they're, they're drop. Guess what? They are not, they do not have a cold. Their nose is clean. No, it's not. Like, there's just, I don't know. It's hard to explain. It's hard to explain.

I would be fine. So, Jeff Vayette had a Twitter thread yesterday about sort of the... That's the crossjack right there, for those of you that are watching. Great job by Jake Schultz here, pulling this up. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, not great radio to rewatch the clip. That's a greasy movie by way. Yeah, well, at least he's involved.

Yeah, me too. But, like, at this point now, like, if you're Sammy, you've got to go the extra mile here. You got to, you can't just go. go in there and then in a scrum, you got to back it up. You want to try to take someone's knee out. That's fine, but you got to back it up. You got to go in all the way here.

And if that means dropping your gloves and going after somebody, so be it. I got derailed on a point that I was just making about how, no, no, no, you didn't do it. That, you know, I would be fine with them saying we're getting away from skill in favor of toughness if they got tougher.

But they got away from skill and they haven't got tougher. They got bigger. Yeah. But they're no more willing or interested or... Well, they got Michael Posetta in the offseason and I was like, this guy will fight anyone at any time.

And he can't dress for the Marleys this year. He's been in the lineup down there, so... Which I can't say I've seen a play so I can't speak to what's going on there. But they signed him to a two-year NHL, like a one-way NHL contract. Yeah. So they focused on the positive.

I get it. better than just laying out your frustration again publicly and they talked about towards the end of the game they liked actually the way they kind of stood up for each other they mentioned that publicly but the biggest disappointment for me is how come you can't start the game the way you finished it why like it's it's too late we've been talking about this for everything here shows time they always turn it on when they go down I mean I know it's score effects I know a lot of teams that happens but it's been a calling

card of this Maple Leafs era like they just they did play well for stretches of this game after they went down 4-1 but that first period to your point is like God were they bad sleepy the first shift the first shift it was Matthew's line the first shift

they're just they're spinning their wheels in their own zone it's he's not he'll never he'll never score 50 goals ever again if you're playing in your own zone like he has been for quite a while now. I mean, and it's that whole period, Kip. Like, what do they have three shots in the period?

You know, with the five minutes left, I don't know what had finished up. I just remember seeing it at that point being like, God, they just cannot get pucks on net. They can't get pucks, period. So, you know, maybe Boston's playing great right now. Maybe they came out hot, maybe blah, blah, blah. But it's like, you know, the techs are coming in

during that first period. Like this was their desperation game right when you think it's embarrassing. They show you that, oh, okay, they still got it. That's, I mean, you've mentioned this to me. I don't know if on air or off air, but that's what's really scary about it, is that that's the exact spot, two in a row.

Carolina is one of the exact spots where they would have bounced back after a bad loss to Boston. They would have had a good game. Or if you want to say the Boston game after Carolina, they would have bounced back and looked a lot better. That's been another one of their traits that they've had. Now they're just getting filled.

on every game. So I don't know. No. And like the, go ahead. Can I ask you just like a, are they going to pull out of this? If they say healthy, yes. Yeah, I'm concerned.

I am concerned. They're too talented to miss the play. I'll tell you something. I'll tell you what I have more faith in, okay, than the Leafs right now. is that it's not a great league right now filled with a lot of good solid teams. I have more faith that there's other struggling teams

for the Leafs to get back in this than I do because the Leafs are just going to play their way back into contention for the Atlantic Division. Mid-HL right now. I don't think that they're quite dead and buried right now. You're not. 91 points mid playoffs based on the inconsistencies

throughout the league right now including the Atlantic Division I have less faith than other teams right now Boston staying this good Montreal staying this hot Ottawa staying this it's so unpredictable

it is it's a very unpredictable league right now and we'll throw the Leafs in there but we can also throw in half a dozen teams in the Eastern Conference that's where I think that the Leafs can find a way to maybe get back in this a little bit. You know, not many teams have Matthews, Nealander, and Tavares. And Nyes, if you want to throw them in there too.

Not many teams have a decor that's veteran proven and experienced. Not many teams have goalies they trust. Now, all the things I just mentioned, aside from the elite guys, have gone terribly this year. Yeah. But like, this decor is not terrible. We saw it last year be pretty damn good. Just last year.

Yeah. Over summer, I don't think they age so much. they got terrible. The goalies have a chance to find it. Hopefully Wohl comes back. Stolars plays less and he's able to come back. There are reasons for me to believe that like it should be okay. But it's perilous now.

If you get a couple guys hurt. Well, like the captain for a long time. And we are right where we were a year ago questioning the health of the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Want to start with Ruby's thought on the Matthews hit and go from there? Sure.

Yeah. Do three and four, maybe. Yeah. Let's go three first. I think it's a penalty, personally, but I'm not the referee. I don't like it. I don't like the hit. He's in a ball and roll in a position.

So, whatever. I mean, nothing I can do about it. So he didn't like the hit, but it didn't seem like the rest of his players were okay with the hit because it went uncontested except the captain had to get up and run into a brick wall and go and go deal with it himself. I would say that

he was a bit on an island there you know, like he's out there over on that side of the ice by himself but I guess somebody's supposed to scream across the ice the gloves off going after him there. You just beeline, Sammy. You just be lying. I don't care where you're coming from. That's fine.

And again, it doesn't have to take a suspension on it. You don't have to, but you just, got a you got to say something he's your best player he's your highest paid guy he's your face of your franchise come on guys yeah well why don't we uh don't listen to barubi on the injury yeah sure let's listen to him for good four we'll see tomorrow more than i mean right now it's lower body we'll just see tomorrow how he is it seems serious um i don't know exactly i really can't give you guys a timeline or how serious it is right now. So, and I'm not sure when he heard it, to be honest with you.

Okay, that one, that one's a little tricky. That means something. Right? I'm not sure when it happened sort of thing. Not sure if that's when he heard it. Day to day. Just on face value. Day to day.

We just assume that he heard it on that play. Right. The coach just told us he didn't know. So if he's suggesting that. it may have not been on that play. Yeah. But he didn't play after that play. So that could have been the one that just exacerbated whatever groin injury he may have had.

Exactly. So he was hurt before that play? I don't know. Is that what he's lending? That's what I think is he's implying. So he had been nursing something without any mention of it. Listen, we got the Dakota ring out here, Kip. I mean, doing the best we can.

can but yeah yeah which is a problem in itself yeah because we're right back to where we were before where this guy is good enough to play but how many games left not good enough to feel like he doesn't need to protect anything how many games left in the season uh 64 sweet yeah i just if he's out for a long period of time that's when it really starts to get scary. I think it's better if he's out a long period of time because it implies that it's something that can be fixed or whatever. If it's one of those, they're doing another managing.

What is a long time for you? If they're managing something, it looks like last year. Three weeks. Where he scored 33. Three weeks is way too long. They will miss the playoffs if he's out three weeks. There's not a chance that Tavares can carry the mail for three weeks and leave your,

yourself in a position I have no idea to make the playoffs in my opinion is that a long time three weeks is a long time right well three weeks takes you well past seven months long so you're looking at almost one of the seven three weeks takes you well past American Thanksgiving

American Thanksgiving and we all know what statistics tells us about if you're on the outside at American Thanksgiving they've had one of the softest schedules they've barely been on the road it's only going to get tougher.

What's interesting, too, is John Tavares is actually playing the fewest minutes of his NHL career this season. He's never had a lower average time on ice. He's averaging 1737, you know, which is not something. I think it's working for him. That's part of the reason. That's what I'm saying. Like, now if he asked him to play 1937, against better competition.

What's David Camp up to? Is he still not, is he still pissed? It's just not, it's just a big ask for John Tavar's right now to just try. to carry this thing for two or three weeks. I mean, my point is, it's just, it's paper thin right now up the middle of the ice. I just don't get the feeling that Thursday night versus the Kings, the puck drops. I don't think 34 is going to be in the lineup. No, I don't think so either.

But I am curious about the goalie. Well, I mean, also the Marley's played today. They played an early game, Joseph Wall, speaking of the goalie, Joseph Wall played three goals on 20-something shots. Today, happened already. That was a day game, yeah. Against Grand Rapids. I can live with 3-127? I think it was like 3-1.

Yeah, maybe around there. H.L's hard. H-L's hard, yep. Break, first goal the game was a breakaway, top corner, nice move. What can you say? So the reason I brought that up is because Cowan wasn't in the lineup.

Didn't play today. So I would imagine that that's telling us that he may be. He's coming back up. He's rejoining the team. Easton Cowan does two things. He works hard, hard, hard, and he has hands to make play.

Yeah. They missed both of those things He may never play in the minors again They need them this year You know what I will say I'll give you a W on one thing I fought you on that the idea that they needed him this year They might need him this year I also said he could be back in a week

Yeah This could be the W hour Because now we're going to talk about Stolars So yeah no I'm still not Okay Let's play clip five on Stolars's injury I don't believe that's serious I think you'll be fine

how did that happen I think it was a play that happened in the first period there kind of like a battle at the net he kind of got he got a little bit stretched out something in the upper do I right now I hope so

see. I mean, you know, we'll see. What was the follow-up question? Will he play Thursday night? Yeah. Or would he be available? He said, I hope so. I find this incredibly strange, this whole thing. Okay?

Like, just strange is my first thought, okay? First of all, you made two incredible saves early, eh? Huge. Oh, that's the play Nick Robertson got buried on. The puck went to the far boards after that, and he And it was like, okay, so that's a great sign.

The stretch across, the followed up blocker's day, was unbelievable. Oh, is that the stretch across he's talking about or no? He's talking about some battle, some other, yeah. So, I don't know, right in this area, and then the inside, like, maybe the heart. And then, oh, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding, knocked on wood there. And then he can't go through 20 minutes without giving up that shot to former Toronto Maple Leaf. Steve's. Alex.

You can only. You can only hope to contain Steve or. Yeah. Steve, always loved that. That one hurt. Oh. Emotionally or on the scoreboard?

Yeah. Everywhere. Everywhere that one hurt. So he's at, he's at three on ten shots. And that to me would have been an easy pull. But he doesn't. He leaves him in.

That's as bad as a show goal. Two and a half minutes to go. Two and a half minutes ago. I don't know if this question was asked in post-game, but did you think about pulling him at that point? I would have loved to known. I couldn't believe they didn't. I would have immediately got the hook.

Well, hold on, guys. Maybe they did. You know what I mean? Like a lot of times they just want to give guy intermission or whatever to pull him. They pulled him at intermission, right? So. And so this injury thing is maybe to help him save face. I don't know. But correct me if I'm wrong, if I read it.

I didn't see it on TV, but he approached the best. bench before after the second goal apparently after the second goal your honor may i approach the bench so we assume it was to say i'm not feeling well something i felt something what what was that right yeah no i read this what was that what was that what do you what are you saying at that point after the second goal he talked to the medical staff and stayed in the game okay so no different than in the playoffs where he Went to the bench and he said, I assume I'm not feeling well.

And then he left after that, right, against Florida in the playoffs. There's no barf involved in this one. I don't remember the exact. No. Was there a barf involved? I didn't see any projectile. So are the trips to the bench to say, keep an eye out for me?

I may be not right. Here's the question. Did he pull himself last night? Did he forewarned them that I could come out? That's the way I read it. I think they reached a consensus after the first period that, you know, if you're not feeling great and it's not going great, maybe we just sit this one out.

But did he, did he, if you were in court, did he lead the witness? Was there a second shooter on the grassy knoll? I think he was, there's a lot of, conjecture. Well, there's smoke, there's fire, Kip. That's what I'll say on this. There's been some smoke.

There's been some smoke. And there may be a fire in the dressing room. You think, what are you getting at? I'm getting at where he, you know. You can't handle it. Was he feeling the pressure? Did he pull himself? Did he take himself out of that environment?

Because I can tell you, through all my years of playing pro, I got news for you. It happens. Goal, he's full himself. Yes. I would say that I would probably like him to not be present on Thursday night. Regardless. Like, if he's starting Thursday night, I think it's kind of.

Can I ask you something? Okay. How bad is it on a Tuesday that you can't finish a game, but then 48 hours later, you're fine to play. That's what I mean. Please tell me. I think I'm entitled. You want the truth.

You can't handle the truth. Kip, it would have to be a cold. Nothing heals in that time frame. Nothing that you can pull, strain, whatever is healed. 48 hours later or 46 hours later, whatever it is by the time they get going. And the other thing that I find really, really strange is that how often when we're talking about injuries and how often. how secretive they are, upper body and lower body,

that someone asks Craig Brew be like when it happened, how it happened, and he starts going into the first period and this. And that's like, you never, you never hear any coach go any more detailed as, we'll have more tomorrow. Or I have no idea.

Or he thinks. What's he said that's more than that? Well, he made a bit of a description of where he thought he might have got hurt in the first. period and you don't even get that anymore from anybody you think the was it the trying to bail he's trying to bail him out or his guys a little bit how does the the shakespeare say go about he doth protest too much i kind of feel like he's sitting there going to everybody it's and then and then

there's i i expect him to kind of play thursday i don't think it's serious and i think you know i hope he's available Thursday right it's almost like again he's he's trying to send a message i think a little bit to his goalie that, you know, it ain't that bad, but get back in there. We need you. Even if it's not healed doesn't mean you can't play. Lots of guys play through things and maybe there's some pressure on these guys because, as you put it, three weeks without them could be the season. So, all right.

Oh, it's only 35 minutes. Hold on, hold on. While we're at Stollars, I just, the other thing I've been real consistent on. I know. Okay. I put the stat in the lineup for you, buddy. Go, just read the things. thing okay and it's not it's not about that i let go ahead and read the stat i'll let you i'll let

you get another w today okay it's okay anthony stole our you i'm looking at anthony stoleers ranked NHL ranks since calling out his team after a loss on october 18th it does not include the games played on that night 405 goals against average worst in the NHL 8 74 save percentage second worst and that's minimum 200 shots faced this season started a week before that stat so he's been bad all year he wasn't like a 920 then he said something. He got worse after that. He got worse. I like a puck in the net at most.

That's a big deal. The goal is a puck in the net per game. No, not per game. I'm saying he's been told it's been bad. No, no, no. It got a lot worse. He got a lot worse. I'm sorry, but he did.

And I think he's having trouble. I think it rattled him. I do. But that's not the W boys. I'm going to tell you this right now and I've told you this earlier in the year. Okay. he's not built to start out of the gate

like he's on pace for 60 games. Yeah. It was just he's not that guy. And I think part, there's parts of him right now that are realizing I'm not that guy. Yeah. He is not,

and I know he got them by default because Joe Wall had to leave. He was putting a bad spot. The team has played terrible defense in front of him and he has handed a terrible schedule, okay? He is. he's not a 50 game goalie he's not a 45 he might be 50 year goalie if he didn't have to play a 70 game pace to start no never never he's not built for this he's not we'll never know because they couldn't space it properly a really good backup goalie that's all he is oh come on now kip we have no idea he's not built mentally to handle all right the the starts that he has physically, mentally, or emotionally?

I'll handle, I'll let you talk mentally. That's fine. That might be the case. Physically, there's no reason to think he couldn't be the same body. He's got bone on bowed knees. Don't tell me that that's not the case either. He didn't have the chance this year to do it properly. He was handed every start.

You're asking him to do something that he's never done before. Yes. Now in his career. And he couldn't prepare for it. And on top of that, They have played so badly in front of them It's been a totally different environment From what he'd be used to

The man is hurt I'm hurt We've always said That he's susceptible to injuries And it wasn't if he was going to get hurt It was when he was going to get hurt And it was last night Unless it's the first thing you said

And it's mental Let's go to break We got a break We got a break Let's go Oh, my goodness. You should probably talk about the coach after the break. It's only November.

Yeah. We got guests waiting to come see us. Okay. Take a quick break. More on our Leaf Edition hour of the Real Kippur and Bourne show when we return. Hey, it's Aylish Forafar. And I'm Justin Cuthbert. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day

and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame. 6 p.m. weekdays on SportsSat, SportsSat 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back to the Real Kippin-Born show. Nick Caprius, Justin Boren, Saney, my key. So I sent out, I feel back, because I thought we'd have more time to do a mailbag here. But we yell at each other for six minutes.

I don't, I don't, I probably came across like a real jerk calling Stolars. I like Stolars. I think he's very talented. my whole point in all of this and it's it's not that i'm labeling him a backup goalie i'm just the point i wanted to make more than anything is he's just never been a legitimate starting type of goalie it's new to him it's there's a ton of pressure that comes with it you made a point off off air that you know certainly hasn't helped which is oh mike yeah just joseph wall And it's unfortunate for both wool and Stolars,

but it really piled on Stolars at a time when the team was struggling defensively to have to say it's you or nobody, you're your shoulder in the load here. And when you haven't done it before over 10 plus years as a pro, it's just really hard. I do feel for Stolars under that scenario. I really do. He operated with no net for the first time in his career this year. And I think it's safe to say he fell off the high wire.

You know, it's maybe time to climb back on and wool could be. And I don't know. Are we going to see Joseph Wall as early as Saturday? I'm like, for whatever reason, whether it's talking to you or other people, I'm convinced he plays Saturday night versus Chicago. And don't underestimate the pressure on that guy coming in Saturday night at home. Are they on a four game losing streak or are they feeling good coming off a solid win tomorrow night.

Did you say at home on site? It's in Chicago. Is it in Chicago? Okay, thanks for clearing it up for me. It is in Chicago. It's only 22,000 people there. Yeah, even tougher environment, by the way. And Badard can't shoot that puck at all.

Okay, we got a couple, I mean, I sent out the mailbag text or tweet today, which, boy, it's been a pretty of a radioactive, radioactive mentions today. Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, one of the biggest questions, I bet you guys can guess, is about the coach. And, you know, is it too early to have this conversation? The one thing I just want to point out is I saw multiple places people be like, oh, it's Derek Lalonde, whatever. The assistant coach does not come in and change a team's structure.

A defense of the head coach is the one who dictates these things. Yes. And it's silly to imply that someone else would have any say. And also, if someone did change something and it wasn't working, it's incumbent on the head coach, say, No, we're not doing that anymore. The other thing, too, is I've been around a lot of situations when there's changes like that.

And Derek Lelon's coming in off being a head coach in Detroit. Those assistant coaches that go back are very conscientious of not overstepping their boundaries and not getting too much involved with the players unless everything goes through the head coach first. They're on eggshells. Derek Lelon doesn't really fight. in right now in my opinion on on a lot of this right now no not at all so that was just one thing

I wanted to step out however it does fall on the head coach who uh yeah he's taking taking a rough ride in in the media and I think through the fans how I don't I want to make it clear like I think his intentions are very good and I thought last year that there was a team that totally bought into his system and you know they gave up they gave up a lot of shots last year but to get to the front of the net was a total, you know, it was hard to get to the middle of the ice against them. They really denied the middle of the ice. I mean, that hasn't happened this year.

Like, what would have to happen? That's what I want to know. Like, what extent are you talking about a coaching change? Yes. Like, what extent are they desperate to save this season? I mean, no chance, in my opinion. I don't think so either. Unheard of these 14 months into his tenure.

I disagree. I think there's a chance that if things don't improve, prove in the next couple of weeks, three weeks, they're under pressure to still try to salvage this season. That's what I mean. Okay?

No way. No way. Keith Pelley just came in and basically said it's him and Tree. Oh, yeah? We'll read some of Pelley's quotes three weeks ago. It's go time.

Yeah. You can't go from its go time to... We'll get him next year. We'll get him next year. Uh-huh. Unacceptable. He's in. Pellie's gone on record.

he's in we're going to do whatever we can at the trade deadline we were we had salary cap issues before we don't now uh look at the age of our team it's go time that 2028 first somebody's got to put that in a vault and dig it into the ground like a time capsule so you can't find it like so no trading that hold on to that matthews in his prime you got willie you you spent you gave up your first rounder next year you gave up the first rounder the year next go time yeah i just it would be a colossal admission of failure for brad tree living to fire a guy 14 months after he hired him that might not be his call okay there's people above brad they need results and you cannot miss the playoffs i'm sorry but

We're talking about tens of millions of dollars for a gate. You can't leave that money on the table right now in November. Here's my criticism as someone who can't see a difference in the system they're playing. And I was a video coach. I've watched systems closely. I think they're playing the same structures last year. What I see is that when things go good, guys buy in further to the system and they play it tighter and they just take care of their own work.

I see guys overcompensating, running out of position because they don't trust one another. And then pucks go in the net and it happens more. And you buy in less and you just, you're doing too much. Oliver Ekman-Larsen had some good quotes. It was in a Jonas Siegel piece today where he talked about how I think we actually need to do less. I wonder if I can find this. Yeah, here we go. Sometimes it's taking, it sounds weird, but taking a step back and trust it your teammates

and trusting everybody's doing their job. And you have to do your job. I know everyone wants to be a difference maker. I know everyone wants to make that player block or whatever it is. but sometimes you just have to let it come to you. I don't see anyone on the Leafs letting it come to them. They're running around like chickens with their heads cut off. And that, to me, does reflect on coaching.

Yeah, I'm almost past X's and O's systems. I'm just, I'm right down to they're emotionally inept. Yeah. I mean, listen, this team has never been. Emotional. Charged. Emotional IQ. you, they are missing it.

Start there. You're talking about the game. What it needs, when it needs. But is that coaching? Or is that? That falls on my other theory last week that I called them not. Is that instinct? Or is that?

Scotty Bowman, Sam Pollack. They'd all be in big trouble right now with this group. Yeah, no one could coax it out of. It's just when they wake up in the mirror and they go, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired or I'm just tired of the way they're talking about us and just go down with a fight

if you're going to go down, go down, swing and please this town. That's how Leafs fans feel. This town... No doubt that's how they feel. A championship would be great. Yeah, but they... Losing will going down swing. They need fighters, man. I know people are still crushed about the World Series

but there's so much pride still in a Trontonian that followed that story. They want pride. They want Wendell Pride and Dougie Pride. Not. Not last night. This is another,

we've got another mailbag thing. This is from Lease Van Ledzi. Imagine you get to walking to the players-only meeting. What's the first thing you're doing in that room? They all clearly need to shake the cobwebs off. Do you go and yell? Do you want to go on a team bonding thing? Do they all need to go on a trip with Aaron Rogers for a few?

What do you propose or say if you got to watch into that player only meeting i mean you're not kidding guys guys don't yell at each other like that in a players meeting players meetings are a lot more discussion than coach base meeting what would you say you do to me it's a lot of what oel is talking about you know where it's just yeah taking care of your own job what can what can each one of you do to help the team get better what do you like it's true that sound bite like what is it exactly you do what is it exactly you do what your role what is your contribution is it to put the puck in the net is it to keep it out is it to create um energy is it to kill a penalty is it like there's a lot of question marks right now

for a lot of guys yeah you know what i would do what's the best irish pub in chicago i team builder friday night chicago sounds like that happened in philly though they had their Halloween party, everyone got twisted and they won. Everybody on Friday night meet at O'Pattie's bar on the Chicago River. It wouldn't be the first one is to play guilty. Every single guy has to be there and it's a minimum of six Guinnesses each

and just get after it. They don't do that anymore. Well, they should. I know. It only works so many times, though. And if they just did it in Philly, if the solution is every other weekend get wasted on the road, it is no,

Sam, it's not. Well, guess what? Sitting in your room and play an Xbox isn't working either. So, yeah, we're just throwing stuff at the wall now. Team builder time. Something else, I know, I know. Yeah, I think those days are gone. Maybe a good video tournament.

Our junior coach used to say, F, fight, or hold the light. Just do something. I had another one here that I wanted to read. It was about, you know, it's just, it's no negative. Hypothetical. We'll turn it into a positive. Hypothetic.

We don't have much time. Positive answers only coming. What's not? It's just. If the least were somehow to miss the playoffs this year, then what? Well, I don't think it has to be a full strip it down sort of thing to change course. Okay. But I don't even want to think about it.

They're not going to. They're too good. There's my positive. Yeah, there'd be some major changes. There are even money on both sides now. To what? Minus 110 to miss, minus one 10 to make. You just make necessary changes, but I don't think, like, this is an organization that,

that thinks that they should compete every year and make the playoffs and you get right back on the horse, Sammy. That's what you do. Okay. There's enough good players here. Played some first. There's good players in here. Like a player like Carlo or Scott Lott.

Hey, both capable of helping. For sure. Struggling right now. They need to get healthy right now. That's the first start. What an uplifting hour. What are you supposed to say? did you like?

Thank goodness we got Gary Galley coming in our next hour. Save us, Giles. On our national program coming up next. More Real Kipper and Bourne after these words.