Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Panthers Even the Series in Sunrise

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' pair of losses to the Florida Panthers in Games 3 & 4 over the weekend. They discuss the dipping play of Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner, the Leafs' undisciplined start in Game 4, the Panthers getting greasier and much more. Then, they look at potential adjustments ahead of Game 5, including a different look for the 5-forward power play, whether Matthews and Marner should be split up, and other possible lineup changes.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

It's the real Kipper and Bourne show Toronto Maple Leaf edition the Kipper is Justin Bourne Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jake the Snake, Schultz with you for the next two hours. We're live on Sportsnet 590, the fans, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus. Hope it was a good weekend. Happy Mother's Day to everyone. Great Mother's Day, I hope, for everyone. The sun's out.

Sammy? End of good things. It's all good. I believe on Friday, JB, of our show, you kind of left us with two games before we come back on air on Monday and what it could look like. You said, could it possibly be over? Yeah. No, no, I think it said it could be over.

Yeah, that's what I meant. It could be two-two. You left us with the thought that it I wasn't suggesting that yeah That it was gonna be over but you left us with It's very seldom that we disappear and then come back and then you you you could either be tied or the series could be over Massive swing over that weekend and the swing swung it did it did and I Think it's a reminder of a best of seven over that weekend and the swing swung. It did, it did. I think it's a reminder of a best of seven

could be a very short series when it comes to certain points of a series and how it could just be that fork in the road. And obviously Friday, it was the swing of one goal. A three nothing commanding lead or a two one series lead. And obviously we know where we are today. And you know, you guys tell me where you want to start because there's a ton to get into here. And I'm sure it'll obviously fall on guys like Austin and Willie and Mitch of course but what was the biggest thing that you've got you got out of the two losses in Florida? Well I think the Florida Panthers looked a lot better at home in fact the game they played in

game four was the most complete game I've seen any team play in playoffs. Like there was just no at no point did I think the Leafs were going to score a goal. You know, sitting there halfway through the game watching the way Florida was playing they were so tight. So they have beat the eight of the last nine teams they've played in a playoff series. They are the defending champs. They They are the defending champs They look like the defending champs

It was never going to be a walk But the Leafs fell short had no answers and will sit here over the next three days and hope to find Find the problems and find the answers Sammy you you led the charge last night on your leaf talk with JD, but bunkus and and JB here and I never leave the charge in that show buddy. Well no. You're. I'm the Bobby McMahon of that show, I'm a passenger.

Your emotional state I think leads it and hey listen I don't know if I could ever truly do that show a mere 15 minutes after the game is over ideally less So, yeah, you know, you also have the unique situation of Of doing it last night and then coming right back at it another hour and just how does it change for you? You know 12 hours later well, I don't know.

I woke up today and my mentions on X and my DMs and my texts and my friends, I gotta tell you boys, it's a wasteland. It's an absolute wasteland with Leaf fans. And I guess that's to be expected. Like it's a pretty reactionary fan base, as everybody knows, we've been through a lot over the last nine years with this team But I got to tell you like to leaf nation people listening like I'm clearly upset and there's lots of things

I'm upset about over the past two games But if I sat you down we go all the way back to October and I sat you down I said the Leafs have a best of three series with the defending Stanley Cup champions in the second round of the playoffs with home ice advantage Would you sign up for that and what percentage of Lee fans would say no? It's just the process on the weekend sucked that Friday night game If they lose this series will haunt me to the day I die Morgan Riley down the left wing off the post didn't go in

Greasy rat bouncing over time, MarShan skating towards it. Yes, skating towards the camera, making me wanna barf. I understand how annoying and crappy the weekend was. But I do think that we are due here for a little bit of perspective. Is that allowed? Hey, I love it. They're not in a bad spot, pal, I agree.

The series is not over, and it's just like the stars stunk last night. I get it. There was some brutal parts of that game, but it's just it's not over. See, I watched last night's game and I know the heat on Matthew's particularly right now. More so than we've ever seen before but I've seen The Leafs have success even without him Scoring and leading a charge. They've won the most games have ever won in the air without him They're clearly deeper that that was a big part of why we've talked to all season long that It's different this year. It looks different. it feels different is because what was around those guys,

but the concern for me last night was their team game, not a couple of guys having trouble, including Matthews, Marner, Willie last night, okay? They did not have a presence as a team last night. My biggest concern is that there was no sustained for-check. JB, you showed me the start of the first period last night, just before we went on air, which we seldom do share even that much.

But you're like, come and tell me what you think of this first shift. And I saw it and I'm like, that's what I saw the majority of the game. To me, the bigger picture isn't necessarily all on Austin Matthews tomorrow night or Wednesday night, I'm sorry. It's, can you guys get out of your own zone,

make two passes without having a forward face the wrong way? Like how many times did we see the D up to the fours, without having a forward face the wrong way. Like how many times did we see the D up to the forwards, but the forwards toes are facing back to Joseph Wall. They're not going the other way. Right. Yeah. Hey, this is so much about going forward to me. It's tough, Kip, but I'm on the fence with that one

about the stars and the team game versus those guys. Cause I think what happens when the score is tied or close and you haven't got goals from the first line, people start going, hey, who else do you point to? Who else do you hope it is? Where is it? Bunk asked us after the game last night, he said, leaves you down one nothing the whole third period.

What was your favorite Matthew's Marner moment? What was the moment where you thought they would ever? And we both sat there and went, oh my God, did they have the puck? I don't remember if they had the puck for a second in that period. So that's frustrating. And to me, it's like everything else around it

can be bad, can be worked on, whatever. But like that part has to be better first where Matthew's in particular, I feel like needs to attack, needs to be more assertive, needs to whatever. But then yeah, there is no going around the panthers. The whole team is gonna have to go through them. It's gonna be physical, it's gonna be dirty, and you just have to accept that that's what it is.

The thing that was very spooky about last night is what I thought it might look like throughout the series is it just at times they were engaged physically like Benoit throws that huge hit and Borubei thought that they were the more physical team last night all this different stuff but it just kind of felt like they were sick of getting hit last night you know like it just felt like there was a bit of a the Panthers were just really really on it last night And it just that's what scares you I thought game five against Ottawa was more about the Stars than this though Okay, five against Ottawa was Columbus. It was Montreal. It was yes, you should beat this team your stars are good enough

Yeah, that was a really good Florida team well and again Just to go back to your point, I don't know if that's appreciated enough, JB. Your first point out of the day here is that this is a Florida team, I think, that looks at the opportunity to go back to back. Like, I won one Stanley Cup, that looks at the opportunity to go back to back.

Like I won one Stanley Cup, I thought we had a chance for a second one. We knocked off Quebec and they were ranked number one when we beat them. And the feeling was, yeah, we're gonna do this again two in a row. The difference between winning one Stanley Cup and two is two almost puts you in a row. The difference between winning one Stanley Cup and two is two almost puts you in a different class altogether on how you will be remembered.

Consecutive cups is the difference. Consecutive cups and then you're one of the greatest in history with your dad and the Montreal Canadiens. That is next-level stuff. The Oilers are in that class. Yeah? But, two in a row for Florida, they look like a team that does not want to waste that opportunity. And if by chance they find a way to get to a final and maybe win the thing again, they will be considered, I think,

the best, one of the best teams in the past 30 years. Right? Since the inception teams in the past 30 years, right? Since the inception of maybe the salary cap, when it comes to being big time gamers, potential future Hall of Famers, they look like a team that will not let this opportunity slip. And others can find a way to wanna quit,

they don't wanna quit. Do you remember game six and game seven of the Stanley Cup final, how many points Connor McDavid had against them? Like one zeroes just one one assistant like four or five games He had zeros and he had two shots total they shot him so right down And my point is that great players have a hard time with a good Florida defense Matthews Marner. They're feeling like How many potential future Hall of Famers as the Florida Panthers have right now Florida defense. Matthews, Marner, they're feeling like,

how many potential future Hall of Famers as the Florida Panthers have right now? Barkov and Reinhardt, I don't know where they end up, but like two consecutive Stanley Cups gets them right there. Like they are playing a very hard team. For sure they are, but Kipper, Austin Matthews has paid the most amount of money. I get it. I'm not taking off the hook. And you know, Marner this off season wants to be in that echelon. You have to be able to push through and be better

than those guys. Answer me this question. Yes. Can the best of the Florida Panthers beat the best of the Leafs in your opinion? I don't think that the best Florida players are as good as the Leafs best players. I think Matthews and Marner are the best, and Willie too. No, they're the most talented, but they're not the best, JB. I don't have Reinhardt above them. I don't have Bennett above them. Barkov, me. Reinhardt's a player, man. We do not agree. He is a player. I would take him over Willie in one game to win it all all day long. I would take Barkov over Matthews all day long on one game to win it all it just seems that they have a little bit of that extra recipe

I want horses back until until until they can prove that they can get over these humps I Don't know how you can pick anybody on the Leafs over Florida right now. Well, that's the thing I mean they've won so it's hard for me to say I'm gonna be like you're wrong Yeah, but I'm not gonna say I know I just as far as talent. It's it's there Yeah, but right now Matthews is missing the it factor for me. Yes It's the dog factor, right? It's the you know, not willing to upset accept this result factor and Marner to the down to me the two of them it's it's the

You see the frustration. I saw someone say the yesterday after the last game I thought Matthews look frustrated after that Barkov. Sorry after therovsky save he looked frustrated and why do we think frustration is a problem that's great he should be so frustrated he should be pulling his hair out he's begging to get out there he's not I know he's not I agree that it's not he's not the same no matter what right So that's the point I'm making. So I wasn't thrilled with Connor McDavid's screaming at the top of his lung behavior, right? I mean...

But he wants results to be different. But I would take that over what Matthews shows. Yeah. And you know, same for me when guys, you You know when they're getting hit and they look to the ref rather than the player who just cheap-shotted them or something It's like go get mad at the guy who did it. Don't look the dad to come in and help It's anyway, I don't think they've been that bad and we started the show off they have not been that bad and and They're even with when when they're out there with Barkov

We know the matches change better than the Barkov line in this series. They are because Barkov got the one Power play goal. Yeah, so they're even on Five on five. Yep. They've controlled a lot of the numbers when they get to play We're talking about one Willie giveaway there in the neutral zone that Bennett scored the second goal. That's that's all they've given up to those guys. Yeah Yeah, I don't sorry. Well, I just you know The thing that is tough to swallow because we've talked about how they need contributions from other guys In all these different playoff series and for the most part they've gotten it like think about What they did in the first round like Simone Benoit scored an overtime winner.

Max Patchready scores the series clinching goal against Ottawa. Game two against the Panthers, Patchready has two points, including the one in the pouch. You know, their defense have scored at a higher rate than they have all year. So it's hard for me to be like, wow, you know,

their depth, they're not like, it's not a prioritized scoring depth. They've gotten a lot of depth, quoteunquote Domi scored an overtime winner Domi scored goals in this and In the tough games. Yeah, when it looks like that, that's what frustrates it gets tighter And that's what frustrates people the most when it gets tighter Marner Doesn't have the puck enough. You can't go two games that a shot can't he He's not getting the puck enough. He can't go two games that are shot. Yep. He He's not getting the puck enough

Don't get it. He has to get into traffic a little bit. He can't be outside Is he the guy and the guy that goes and gets his own puck though? If he can't then that's a problem. They don't want when they have it. They don't keep it Neither them are getting they don't move it. They don't move it. They're not they're not passing the puck. It's remarkable to watch Florida come out of their own zone. And they're like these short passes, they're close, they're supportive. They can they can string four, five, six, seven passes in a row. I don't see that from the Toronto Maple Leafs.

I see dump and chase. I see where is the second four checker. I barely got the first one on my television screen. It's a different look when it comes to passing the puck for me. Yeah, you know, to me though, it's like it's a little plain the result. And I think we did this on Leafs Talk a little bit,

or at least in our text messages where it's like, the score is one nothing. So everything the Leafs are doing is bad, you know? And if it's one nothing for the Leafs, everything they're doing is good. And that is like the way we perceive this. It's two-two in the series, the most recent games were bad.

Do you think they couldn't break the puck out in games one and two? Like, they had a tough time these past two games, but I don't think this is something they can't do. I mean, they scored a beautiful transition goal with the four touches with Lorenz backhand. So like they can do it. Yes, they can do it.

Yeah, they can do it. It was tough in Florida. But they didn't do it in Florida. No. And Florida cranked it up, boys. They weren't even remotely, physically, or even emotionally where they were on the weekend

in those first two games in Toronto. They took it to another level and now it's on the Leafs to bump their bar up. This is what it's all coming down to with Matthews and Marner. Those guys have said, oh, we need to find this. And every time we run up against that with these guys, it's that's where you, where's this?

Where's your next step to match that or to better it? But I mean, just to push back a little bit on Florida turning it up, like they were unbelievable last night. Game four, I would just like, you couldn't get a sniff of anything. And I give them full credit for that. Friday night, boys, was such a winnable game.

Winnable, for sure. No, no, I'm still. And if Joseph Wall plays the way he did last night, on Friday, we're sitting here talking about a 3-1 series. He constantly, like, there was multiple bad goals in that game where he was just not good enough, and the Leafs were great in that game. They had a couple mistakes here and there.

They scored four again on Bobrowski I'll definitely agree that last night Florida turned it up big-time, but Friday night was so winnable so winnable my My worry for the Leafs is that we're gonna look back at game three at game three forever and it will be The regrettable loss. I totally agree. I totally agree. If they lose this series, that'll haunt me forever that game. Regrettable. Last night, even if they were up three nothing,

that's almost a scheduled loss. Yeah, you're due to take an oath of the champs. You're not sweeping them. So that one was, the one they needed was on Friday. And that's, I think, where you're looking for the Matthews goal. You're just like, it could be there, could it be,

even the next game when they didn't deserve to win, can you steal one? And that's why people are frustrated. That's why he should be frustrated, but. All right, let's. We haven't played a clip yet. Yeah, we haven't played a clip yet. Let's go to.

Oh my God, do we have any clips today? Holy. I haven't been busy, what was have any clips today cancel the national first Kipper's glipper with Craig Ruby on his overview last night well they did they were good they checked us hard tonight but you know the first period were in a box the whole period so you can wipe that period out, too many penalties. We had looks. It's like, they're doing a good job with swarming us

with numbers, obviously, and we gotta do a better job of getting that puck out of there quicker, and I thought we were really coming in the third with some opportunities and moving the puck better in the offensive zone. And then, you know, we took a penalty kind of, again, we took another penalty, kind of ruined our momentum a little bit, but, you know, it's a battle out there.

And this is what it is. They don't give you a lot. So we capitalize on some of the opportunities we had it's a different game, right? Not Matthew Nyes had the whole top of the net the sale that was a tough awkward spot on the broski the one save He made okay, but the breakaway he had the whole last time that Guaranteed goal guaranteed. He's been pretty automatic to me. It's like you can't score every breakaway I know his mother's day. I was writing home to mama boys. I thought that was He's been pretty automatic to me. It's like you can't score every break Home to mama boys, I thought that was honestly I thought backhand forehand backhand up over the glove again I was something I just thought he scored him on so many of these like it just he can't keep doing this You know, it's good shot. You had the whole top of the net just missed and that's that's the save that you didn't save it

Did he that's no, I think he got a piece of it, did he? I thought he sailed it. Oh, you did? Okay, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. But Bob was... No leakiness on Bob. But I mean, I think people will be like, oh, another playoff shutout for the grizzled vet.

They had two slot shots. They couldn't get to them. It was a Chris Osgood in the 1990s shutout for the grizzled vet like they had what they have two slot shots like they couldn't get to them It was a it was a Chris Osgood in the 1990s shutout like there wasn't a ton of wasn't a ton of high danger for me, but he was okay He made some good saves, but he did his part did his part He is now tied for the sixth most among active goaltenders for shutouts Yeah, and if you would have told me I know he's tied with Peter Brasic if you would have told me, he's tied with Peter Marazic, I would have told you.

What? Who did he play for? What? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know who he played for. What did you make of all the penalties? Yeah. Oh God, it's just,

Domi's first one two minutes in with the stick up around his visor. Reckless. Yeah, just. It's Domi's first one two minutes in with a stick up around his visor. Reckless. Yeah, just It's penalty. It's a penalty McMahon one Boarding early early if you if you're If you're trying to send a message that boys don't don't don't start that crap It's a penalty. The problem is there's no point where his numbers aren't visible to McMahon there's

no point you know it's not like a last second turn and I feel for McMahon here too because you could probably feel that I don't think they're gonna take him out like what is he gonna bring in Robertson for like but he's not really contributing a ton here been a bit of a passenger for games He's ever played in a season gotta be by twofold Yeah, and it's just he's probably trying and brew is like you got your big body keep trying to battle you take season's shot And he hammers him into the boards, but I thought it's Puck over the glass to lay game. No, no and

Hooking the hands nice almost They almost weathered the storm here and it was looking pretty good and then it's like They just they just need the one opportunity and they got it on the game-winning goal and it was a great pass But even if you were able to kill all of it It's so taxing guys on your penalty killers and it's just it's stressful. It's managing very stressful minutes which can sap a lot of energy out of you. Well and you get your lineup is all out of whack right? You have. That's a pretty good hook.

You know some of the guys who don't PK never get on the ice. Some of the guys who do PK are exhausted The Leafs have been so good when they win their time on ice distribution is usually so tight and last night They just didn't have a chance to keep it remotely All right, hold on before I move on the glass over the puck over the glass Did you hear like an audible clunk when they like when he shot it out? I don't know. I was listed. It just sounded like it hit something I did I do know you're talking about.

I was like what? I do. So the refs get together and they have their little meeting there and they're like, did you see anything? Did you see anything? Yeah. They must've heard, I thought it hit something. I thought it hit the glass. The replays showed it was clearly out.

It was, but it sounded like it hit something. I know what you're talking about. The only reason it felt like maybe it didn't is because Ekman Larson was pretty adamant it hit something. I would be too. Let's go to Craig Rubyuby on the penalties clip three. That is like we don't need to take those you know hookings and you know interference like you know we got to be better we'll be smarter than that

but in the end I really liked their physicality or compete out there. Guys played hard. It's tough series. They're very good team. We know that and it's a battle. It certainly is. And Benoit, I think he smoked Brian Hart behind the net. That's a big hit. How does Sam get up after that? He took three strides from three feet away We did that but it was there's they're there, you know, and sometimes you got to fight a little dirty

I didn't mind the OEL Hit on Rodriguez. Yeah, I didn't mind mine that either didn't mind I know it's illegal and it's two minutes. Yep, for sure. And it's take your chances on killing it. Take your chances on killing it, but that's a good lick on a guy that just ran Tavares' head into the boards. Like at least the boys can show that, you know what, we know who you are

and we got a little bit of that back in your face. And even the Domi at the end of the game pay that fine all day long but Give give Barkov a good run to I'm okay with that. It's let him go your pros or losers. I like that I got to go. I got two questions for you about that. Yeah, so the first thing is does Domi have to pay the fine? Yes, okay. It's got his pocket. We had a lease aren't foot in that bill No, no, they're not allowed. Okay. The second thing is I just you know, you've watched the way the Panthers Bench reacts to like a greasy shot It's just like they act like they haven't been trying to take guys out the entire series do like see that Mikala play where Where I don't know who it was riding Nylander towards the boards. He's looking right at him and he opens up the gate

Yeah, oh, yeah, you thought that was on purpose hundred percent. He's looking right at him. Oh, yeah, shove him right in Dangerous, I don't know like I just hey Sammy. Yeah, it's a dangerous game, but they but they There's lots of teams that Rodriguez on Tavares Kulikov on Marner on wall obviously back up goalies playing because of a targeted shot that took a guy out of a series they try to take wall out the next game like there is a certain part of their game and they're really good sure they're good yeah but like what but what what's their place amy it's not fair yeah don't tell the principal on you go to the principal's office. Sammy, just say, you

know what this guy who said in my face, whatever boys, because NHL playoff Sammy, but like are, is every other team trying to just run guy? They're not doing the same way. They're not, they're not as good as, you know, why they're really good because they take out the other team's best players so they don't get to play. They sure. Yeah, it's it's just a little bit rotten That's all yeah handle the truth Zero respect for any of them handle the truth Marshaan at the end of the game just classic fake tough guy move dropping with Bonnie you got in there

I'm Bobby man. He's like oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm the toughest guy on the ice like give me a break We do have a bunch of clips on greasiness. That's why we start with the Craig Berube on Panthers playing a greasy game clip six Yeah, no, it's normal We expected it and I think we're We're fine with it. You know, we're handling it. We're physical. I thought we were the more physical team last night. And then we also have him on avoiding the Panthers' grease. Clip nine, please.

Well, I don't think it changes the direction that we already been going. Just hard between the whistles. And I think we're doing a good job of not retaliating or getting involved too much. I mean, things happen. That's part of the game and there's nothing you can do about it.

It's hard to avoid it all the time. But I think we're doing a good job of playing hard between the whistles and being physical and initiating, you know, and that's the key. Yeah, I've got no problem with that either. I think they're fine there. For me, Wednesday night, they just,

they gotta find a way to get through the neutral zone. I think Willie's forced pass to Tavares and to triple coverage is just, was a perfect example of how good Florida was taking away the middle. So that's in my article today. That's one of the other clips I have. That was one of the first times,

but it is a perfect example of Florida, but where the Leafs tried to not be a dump and chase team, they're down one, there's eight minutes left, and they were like, we can't get it back on the forecheck. We're gonna hang on to it. Tavara's brought it back, Nylander brought it back, and they try to carry the puck in, can't. When they're in their structure,

you have to chip it past them hard room the way it's the only way in and you gotta come in with speed and you gotta You gotta have a group of guys just in there with some purpose I think it of ours might tip it in is what I'm guessing Like sure it has the other guy pal One more one more Quick quibble about the finding and stuff cuz don't make it's fine. Yeah, the cool account thing not a fine Not even a mention wasn't even a two-minute minor flying elbow and star players

It's regular season. It's a one game suspension to games. Suspension. You can't even give a performative fine. They just pretend that it doesn't. I don't know why I have no idea. I could be around this game for a hundred years. We're never going to figure it out. We should probably should have some ever look at that. Oh, it's dirty. He's trying to decapitate. I will say this and this is you know, we'll get into this a little bit, you know in the national hour, but say this and this is you know we'll get into this a little bit you know in the national hour but Nicholas Wah has cross-check in in Vegas yeah like no

just maximum of I don't get that that there's nothing nothing yeah just a fine yeah fine so you so you agree with me that like I do don't me don't me on Barkov I mean that's just I mean Berube said it play the clip here well we'll hear what he had to say. But clip number, Jesus, there's too many clips. Clip five, Barube. Well, you know, whatever, it's not, like that's leagues stuff, I haven't heard anything,

so I don't know, I doubt it. How important is it to stay? To me, the Kulikov hit on Marner was ten times worse. He wanted to say that. That was during the first answer of the first question. He was like, whatever the question is, that's the old politician trick. You can ask me whatever you want. I'm answering about this.

I can't sit here and give you any reasonable explanation on why that was not penalized or fined. It doesn't land enough. It landed. You hit him. Yeah, but you think it's too much of a glance? I think if Marner doesn't duck, it's the same as Kachak trying to take out his knees at the end of the one game. If Marner doesn't high jump his leg, then there's a big thing, but he didn't really land on honesty I've stopped kind of really truly zeroing in and paying attention to what is and what isn't and just like just play I mean play if you're Florida though, right?

Why not continue to throw flying elbows everybody because it goes unpunished every game, right? Yeah, I mean then that's so pick your spots if you're the Leafs and be a Ben one If I were a Ruby drive guys, I hope none of my players are talking spots if you're the Leafs and be a Ben one if I were Ruby drive guys I hope none of my players are talking like you like enough, you know, like okay, it's tough out there Obviously obviously not right there not me, but this is not why the score is why the score is as well It's I mean, it's why it's an impact. It's one of five thousand and it's well It's why they had their backup goalie and then he led in five bad goals on on Friday night Yeah, and then he turned into a starting goalie on Sunday her but he was back up on Friday

We do have the coaches on the thing we talked about most and people will be talking about most most which is Matthews Marner the lack of offense from those guys. Okay. Well, we hear a couple cups on that You want to drive that bus Sam Matthews one maybe from today? Clip seven math on Matthew.. Well you just got to keep playing. I get it but he does a lot of other things in the game that really dictate things and you know does a great job with a lot of other areas of the game and you know he's just got to keep focused on that. I mean, he's going to get his looks, and just stick with what he's doing, and don't get too frustrated with anything,

because it's not just about scoring goals. He's got a lot of other stuff he does really extremely well for us. And big goals coming. That's the way you you got to think about it and who knows when it's going to happen, but just focus on playing the game and he's doing a good job.

He's doing a lot of good things for us and I get it, the puck's not going in the net for him, but again, it's not all about scoring. It would be nice if it was a little about scoring. Very consistent all about scoring. It would be nice if it was a little about scoring. Very consistent all season long. He will not challenge them publicly. Yeah. You don't think that's a spot, Larry?

I think it could be a spot for sure, yes. But that's not his style. He has been consistent all year. I'd rather him being consistent than, to me, hearing him challenge Austin or Mitch now would would go totally against the grain to me That's a bigger sign of being desperate than Craig sticking to his guns. Let's play this clip that he got asked

I forget who asked him but about Marner not having shots for two games And this was his response. So that would be clip 12, please Derek. Yeah, I think he's looking to probably I think sometimes your top guys they look to Looking to get too good of a chance sometimes instead of just putting a puck on that And I think there's times where we could put more pucks on that at angles bad bad angles, just firing it in there with people going on the net. You never know it goes off somebody, rebounds or anything like that. So I think Mitch could just be a little bit more direct in that area. I think he has the puck a lot, we know that. He's got to look to put more pucks on the net. And I get what he's trying to do.

Like he wants to upgrade his chance, upgrade the chance. He's probably looking to, you know, he's a passer first. We know that, but we need him to shoot pucks too. So yeah, I agree with you on that. He, you know, two games with a shot. He's got, he's got to shoot the puck. Yeah. Yeah, give the puck to the net.

Yeah, that's, that's as the puck to the net. That's that's as critical as he ever had So much of that too is like because Florida is in their structure a lot is gonna have to come off broken plays Which you create by shooting the puck? Yeah, the time going Friday right out about the pad hit off a guy's leg goes into that Yeah, people at the net front you have rebound screens knives and Tavres are so good down there, and Pucks are on the blue. That's, there ain't secrets. No, it's pretty simple.

Yeah. It's pretty simple. Get it to that part, be there, out muscle. Between those hash marks, whack away at it, and that's pretty good. There was actually a good clip of McMahon getting boxed out by Ekblad after one of the shots in the point last night, and I think Simmer was like, you gotta spin off that.

I tell you what, I don't think he gets the credit he deserves. No, he looks really strong. Is there a reason he'd be extra angry? Is there anything that would make him extra angry? It's just acting very mean out there. They changed when he went back there. Yeah. Their D goes from all of a sudden you got Balinski's and you got a pair that you feel

like you can eat up and now it's like oh. Mikala? Mikala has become a player. He's a mule out there. Well him and Jones are long, long sticks. Alright well we'll take a break. We still got some more clips and we'll get into a little bit more of Austin Matthews and what we don't see out of the captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs when we return to Real Kipper and Born After These Words.

Hey it's Ben Ennis. And I'm Brent Gunning. We got you covered on all things Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays every weekday morning 6 to 9. It's the Fan Morning Show. Sportsnet 590 The Fan and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourns, Sammy McKee, Kimprio's Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Leaf Hour edition of our program, the power play. A lot of people thinking that they gotta change it up. I, for one, don't believe that now's the time.

Just to go back to my earlier comments, I think it would look more like a panic move then one that would Suggest calmness which is Ruby's forte. Yep. Yeah I thought Blake Wheeler did an awesome job on the panel for sports at this weekend really enjoyed his like insights about the handedness of Florida and all that. On the Leafs one, one of the

suggestions was Morgan Reilly and a lot of people in Leafs Nation would agree with him on that. I'm with you though, like they haven't had a successful Morgan Reilly-led power play. I don't know it's been five forward since like February or something like that. I think what needs to happen is an adjustment like more or sorry Marner is their best bet up there to figure this out But they need at the point at the point. I'm starting to not like them up there Well, even if you don't like him up there, those five guys are your best offensive options So they just need to be aware pressure is coming the puck has to get to the net and this is going to be a Tavara's

And nice power play series. It this is going to be a Tavara's and Nye's power play series It's not going to be a pass throughout the tips teams. I just And I am hating Austin just waiting on the on the flank and And that's every flame player right and when it when it when it comes to him like they're not dumb They're they're taking away as much as they can and then it's gotta go back to the point. And he's just, there's not enough movement for me

for Austin over there. I don't know if he needs to swing in, maybe even in the bumper at times. But it's just, I watch Florida's power play and they can take that puck from one side to the other. Watch how many rim rounds from one side to the other. You like that? It moves, it moves the box quickly.

And it opens up seams. Yeah, I like everything about their power play. Oh, I don't. It's behind the leaves in the playoffs. It doesn't matter. It looked way better. And I they they have way better movement. I think they passed the puck a lot better on their power play But yeah, I think that and they got the one that they needed last night I mean if you don't want Morgan out there and doing a panic and you don't want Mitch at the point

What do you what you got? What are you doing? You know like it's it's not it's It's far from perfect. Yeah, I know it is it's I agree that movement would be good part of Mitch's problems when when People get on him. It's He's not involved enough for me He is the troop best passer. Yeah best Best guy that can open up seams, move areas of the ice open. He's it.

If he's just sitting there waiting, I don't know if he's being used. Do you think his teammates need to find him more? I think it would help if, on the power play, well, on the power play, you're only just gonna feed the point. Yeah, five on five. Yes I do believe that that they get they got to get him the puck more, but he doesn't mean They got to get him the puck more

I mean now but Austin's got to get him the puck more part of his game is nice He's got to get him the puck more I mean part of his game is supposed to be that pick pocket II like uses stick uses use angles like that's part of his game too, like nice is I Agree with Matthews, but nice is doing that but he's in a fistfight every shift keeper. He's below the circle He's below the guys the best player in the series He's been he's been really good at that trying to get pucks out and I think he's in a pretty good job But like Marner's got to pull his weight. Yeah, man. No, no, no 100% Sammy 100%

As far as Matthews is concerned, the biggest concern I would have with him is he's lost, he's lost his zip. He is a pitcher right now without a fastball. Yeah, I agree. And how do you mean it though? Like with the shot or? Yeah, it's not And how do you mean it though? Like with the shot or?

Yeah, it's not what it used to be. Yeah. He is not getting the action on it he's had in the past and then certainly the inability to hit the net seems to be an issue as well. But it's not snapping like it used to. Now does that go back to his wrist injury does it? I don't know. I mean, can you win face-offs without a wrist? I don't I don't think we should act like he's hurt I hear a lot of people hate it. Yeah, I hear a lot of people being like, yeah

He must be hurting. It's like ah, if he's hurt then maybe he's Jimmy Plank. Yeah. Well, what can't he do? Yeah, I see him throw hits. I see him win draws. I see him. He seems to be able to do everything. Excuse me. So You know, I I actually so first off I disagree with the miss nets thing I do agree with the the shot the the miss nets thing. I think is overblown He's had a few egregious ones so people got talking about it, but his rates of miss nets are pretty in line He just shoots it more than most players him and McDavid. Yeah, maybe shots the thing that I think is his feet. I think he looks slow I think and and he looks slow because he's not even trying to get up to speed most of the time I did a thing in my article today where I looked at his top speed

In regular season and in playoffs in three straight years. He's like mid 60s 60th percentile at the top is good and in playoffs below 50th mid 60th below 50th in playoffs It's a below so he's he stops skating. Yeah, that's nervousness pressure Whatever, but he's not skating the same way and to me that affects your shot because you're not creating separation You're not getting open. You're not getting the spots the same way and then when he Tired lazy not what is it? I don't know. I think it might be pressure. I don't know where you just feel like a little jammed up. But the other thing is just with shots is like, it's legal

to fake a shot or use some deception a head fake a look off of something that risk around Bobrovsky he just shoots at high glove. And then like I remember a couple in this series where he's just no that would bar down in shoots at high glove. And then like I remember a couple in this series where he's just no that would bar down in years past. Yeah. And but there's no rocket Richard years. He's even fading away on that one. I want him to move, move your feet. Sammy, what do you see?

Snow. There's just no. Was it you that what you said earlier, the it factor, the factor, the factor the fear? You know when he is at his best it just feels like every shift. He's winning puck battles. He's lifting sticks He's getting it towards the front of the net. He's undeniable out there and he just even in the Ottawa series You didn't see a ton of it. So maybe when you're just the pressure is higher, and you know, you got to fight for every inch You just don't Have the will to do it. I don't know but it's very

Frustrating to watch and it's talking about and and concerning. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's very good I think we're talking about all these other numbers that he's doing great these face-offs and you know hits or sorry not hits but like You know possession numbers and whatever lock shots all these other things. He's doing well, but his hits are but like, you know, possession numbers and whatever. Lock shots, all these other things he's doing well, but his hits are way down to he's never had below nine hits per 60s at seven. So this something's really different right now. Yeah. Oh, I went on with Ivanka and Ken and I talked about whether or not he can emotionally rise this time of year. And there's a look that doesn't look any different than what we saw earlier this year when he

just plays. And I mean, I don't want him being something that he's not. But when you're not scoring, there has to be a different look that presents itself, that this is the playoffs and this is not the regular season. And I don't see any difference. Fundamentally, the core of what gave people questions were Matthews and Marner. And that question this time of year, when it's not going right, and it sucks that you play Florida because they're probably the toughest to play through.

Break them up then, change it up. Sure. Like give me Marner on the fourth line, put Marner with Lawton for a shift here, just change it up. I've liked Lawton, I'd be fine. Change it up. Get him away from Matthews,

get Matthews away from Marner for a couple of shifts. Start double shifting these guys in different areas. What's tough is doing what they did worked in Toronto the last two times. I'm with you, I'm ready for lineup changes, but. Series doesn't start till somebody loses at home, Kip. So we're fine here, baby. We're all good.

Okay. But if it starts off in five or 10 minutes and you start seeing some of the stuff bleed from game four to game five, I Don't sit there with and then keep going to the well Until it's what ten minutes and you're down a goal in the third, please. I just I really don't think That that will happen with Borubei I

Really? I really don't think that that will happen with Borube. He's never given me any indication outside of a couple blowouts in the regular season where he's really changed things up. He just, if they're going into game five here, and they have a bad first 10 minutes, and they're like, breaking up Matthews, it's like the other team sniffs blood immediately. Yeah, so I just think.

It's not that you're breaking them up for good, but just free it up not that you're breaking them up for good, but just free it up a little bit with a couple of different looks on a couple of rotations on a double shift. Yeah, I agree. That's all they're in a hat's way together. And by the way, like, you know, you saw Florida toggle their whole fourth line, flip it over. Yeah, you can live without, you know, Holmberg if if camp is in there, you can live without your own croc. If Robertson's in there, your own croc for me is the first guy out It's a lot of yarn croc. It's a lot of yarn croc and like yeah, he kills penalties. Okay. He got lots of good. Yeah, I I'd find a way to change the lineup. I would I did energy just I need different energy

Yeah, do you think you will I do I think that? No, I don't know. I don't think I don't think he will either. No, yeah, I don't I don't see it There's there's good reason to not right? This is the lineup that one is Toronto if they get the matchups how they want to they've seen the plan can work Like no, no, no check. No check. No, shake. No shake. Yeah, Gajewicz got a horrible goal to give up Oh under the or All that's I'm telling you the playoff. What are you backing up on that guy for? But the guys got three goals in a hundred games Why are you giving them the blue line at 15 feet into the blue line? Yeah, make a safe

Make a safe close it off. Sammy make us come on. You can't Sammy Okay, mate like if you're gonna pardon wall for that one, then we might like only we're part. No, no, no No, make a safe, but don't don't put him in a position to have to at that point on that guy You're not thinking a wrist or from the top of the circle. That's a flutter pox going in on your goalie And I don't want to talk about game three anymore anymore Okay, just it's gonna haunt me forever Hey, like we started off with me. You don't have Yes, okay with Willie Lander. I had an issue with him Friday night Of course on the the game-winning goal where he stood like a statue. He's out there for two minutes

He got stuck in his own zone He does he never he's not gonna make it look like he's trying if he can't try Which is a tough look for him. It always has been you know, he's got no energy He's just never gonna look like he's you're almost excusing him for it. No, i'm not it was brutal It's a horrible look. He's stuck out there, but he's just never He just he won't Pretend to like he's not gonna do performative trying Unfortunately, you would like him to and you want them to beat the sally cup champions. He's also got to performative trying, unfortunately. You would like him to. And you want them to beat the Stanley Cup champions with star players who...

He's also carried them offensively, Kipper, when everybody else hasn't been able to score. So I'm willing to pardon a little bit here. Yeah, no pardon for me and my friend. Okay. No. I think these guys should cheat more offensively next game.

More cheating. All right. It's all good, baby. Two, two. Solved nothing. We got a series here. Solved nothing. You weren't going to sweep them. It ain't so bad. Okay. I love it. You guys stay positive. You'll stay negative. Drag me. Drag me right into Wednesday. But I need a better look coming off of the Florida Panthers, a game four. We're not going anywhere. We go national next.

Jody Shelley will join us as we go around the horn, looting the Edmonton Oilers. We got a series there as well, gentlemen. All right, more when we return to real kipper and born.