Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Passing & Power-Play Problems

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick things off by looking back on the Leafs' 3-0 loss to the Vancouver Canucks Saturday night in the first of a three-game homestand. The trio discuss the team's lack of passing ability, the need for adjustments on the power play, and Mitch Marner's most recent post-game comments. Next, Sportsnet's Gord Stellick (33:05) weighs in on Steven Lorentz's effort level leading to a promotion to the top line, Dennis Hildeby's start against the Canucks over the weekend, how the Leafs can shore up their performance with the man advantage, and the big defensive void left without Jake McCabe.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Alright, the weekend's over. Back to work. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandale, Jake the Snake, Schultz with you for the next two hours as we kick it into gear on Sportsnet 590 The Fan, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus. This is our Leaf Hour edition of our program. Kevin Lankenen records his fourth shoutout of the season, Saturday night, and apparently was the first Vancouver Canuck Goaltender to shut out the Leafs in Toronto since like the early 70s. I might have been six or seven.

Really? Yes. Wow. And I want to say the name Dunk Wilson. Oh, I remember Dunk. Oh, Dunkie. Dunkie. He was the hell of a keeper.

Monday mornings he had a bit of a different first name. Yeah. So, Windsor Maroons back in 71. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Can anybody back me up on that or not? I don't know.

It was a long time. That's what I was told. It's been a while. A long, long time. Well, it felt like a long time ago weekend today. Today, it was a proper Canadian weekend, wasn't it? Can I tell you how this weekend went? Sammy this morning coming off a weekend feels like he's already had five days this week.

Yeah. Oh, what do you mean? He put in some hours today. He was, or Sammy was scrambling this afternoon. No. Sometimes that role that Sammy has requires some work. You plugged up nicely a few holes. Here's what I'll say. Okay. Well, your bill's won. That's the important thing. Yeah. Go bills. You know know you make me want to shout

Um I am the producer of this after all and sometimes things happen and in my earlier years It used to really set me off the wrong Road, and I would really panic and I would really get out of hand and those days are behind me But so the whole you want to explain the whole situation okay? Just briefly don't spend too much time on it. Early this morning, I booked Gorda Selig, of course, who's coming on early this hour. And then in the national hour, we have our good friend Gary Galley coming on to go across the country,

talking about all this stuff in Canada. Anyways, around 12 p.m., Disco Dan, who fills in for me, texts me and says, hey, the commissioner's coming on today. I'm like, oh my God, the commissioner? That's exciting, Gary Bettman. And then he caught word of all the times I made fun of, of, what's his name?

Oh my God, Perros. He caught with how much I made fun of Perros, how much I made fun of the league, and how much I said it's Fives against Leafs, and he decided to cancel. No, I'm joking, he didn't do that. Anyways. You know, people are gonna believe that.

Anyways. Don't joke. Anyways. He cancels, coming on later in the week tentatively, so that I had to scramble back, I'm behind the eight ball, and it was a bit of a stressful day, but I've got it all, we landed the plane, we're good, baby.

He's still planning on coming on the show. Yes. We'll get Gary. Just later on in the week, so let it build up a little bit. So we canceled that Gary, we brought back our other Gary'll get Gary. Just later on in the week, so let it build up a little bit. So we canceled that Gary. We brought back our other Gary. So Gary Galley's stepping in.

So the Garys are all coming today. We're good, baby. No problem. Guys, I had a classic weekend. I took the kids sledding. We went skating. And the fresh under the lights, the falling snow, felt like a proper Canadian.

We didn't have one last year. Last year, the ice did not freeze. Was it the bent way or whatever it's called? The belt way or under the garden Gardner. Uh, no, Bo more Bo more the In the East End there. They have just like a classic little hope, you know fire hose becomes a rink sort of thing So yeah good weekend. All right, so we're all good. We're ready except. Oh my god leaf land because The longer we follow them, the more we just cannot figure this market out because it is there's only two things in this market. Either they're planning the parade. No, or you're

burning the building down. No one's ever only only two choices in this town. Okay kipper and I'm talking to your Nation Sam I have to stand up for my leaf friend and brothers and sisters. There is not one Damn person in this city that would ever believe is left. They would never pick this team to win the cup ever Not one so no one's ever playing the parade They use people people are excited that they're good people are excited that they're a first-place team and maybe have a chance at not playing The Tampa Bay Lightning or Florida Panthers in the first round people are excited, but no one would ever Consider like the Leafs are gonna win the cut I will say this I talked to some people this weekend some Leafs fans

Okay, my understanding is that as it swings from they're gonna win the cup you know you have a moment of believing to utter despair we're back baby like they're at least like this team has a chance again so we've done a 180 if you will from you know July but you know we've got lots of friends across the country across North America if you reach out to you and just like, how good are they? Yes. I got that text was, hey question, you've watched them every single day. Are the Leafs good?

And I'm sitting there, you're about to reply to the text like, hello. You don't put yes or no real quick, right? No, no. You got to be like, You should've seen my response. Asked like thesis statement, hypothesis. I will say the vigor in which they laid an egg on Saturday night against a quote unquote Canadian rival with a lot of eyeballs who hate the Leafs.

And to have it go like that, that's's a that's a formative all-time well no they make fun of us for not watching Vancouver but they don't watch the Leafs so they form their opinions on them watching that game they're like wow the Leafs suck and that was such a big win for them they land here it could turn their whole season around yeah so while you were doing the family thing, Sammy and I were on real time watching the game. And it was a little frustrating watching them for sure because you're waiting for that gear to kick in and it never really did. Yeah, but it wasn't for me. It was not nearly as as bad as watching the

50 minutes against Carolina Mmm, I would wholeheartedly disagree with that other than the lack of energy Mm-hmm. I thought they were they were more in the game as much as the energy was not there and there's no push and a lot of lost battles you know it to me it wasn't as nearly as bad or one-sided as carolina for 50, you know for 50 minutes carolina felt like after

Spotting them to nothing. I really like the expression uh after spotting them to nothing. I really like the expression, you'd rather tame a tiger than paint stripes on a pussycat. And it felt like the Leafs against Carolina were the tiger where it was like, they're all over the place, there's energy. And they just couldn't, they weren't in their spots, they were undisciplined, but they had some pop. And that just was a pussycat of a Leafs team

on Saturday night where it's like, do something. Like, it just felt like it was harder to get some. No, no, no. That part was frustrating. You know, watching Canucks get on top of them, first on the puck, even the first shift, the first, what, 30-plus seconds of that first goal. Like watching a simple puck down below the goal line and then watching Brock Besser get in there before Morgan Reilly gets in there and the next thing you know it's back to the point and you're down 1-0. Yeah, yeah.

You know, I wouldn't say the Canucks had a ton of grade A chances or anything to that effect like it felt like they were pretty low life too. It just felt like the whole game was kind of that way. The one thing the Leafs do a lot in the D zone is they're really low. The wingers are really low and they allow the pass to the point. And Vancouver's D ended up with,

I counted 13 shot attempts, which is a pretty high number over two per guy. You know, and it just feels like some days they're gonna bounce in you let a lot of shots go like that So I don't to me. It's a stylistic thing totally agree and not only that but you now have If not, you know, well I'm in my car nobody does it better in terms of getting a puck at the point pulling it in, opening up so you've got both options. I don't know who he froze there on the third goal. He's a freak up there.

Well, it was Max Dolm, he tried to reach out on him and then he froze. Max tried to cover off the lane like they often do and And then Quinn Hughes gives him the 10 to two so you don't know if he's going left or right. He's like a slightly more dynamic Marner skating. It is phenomenal. So when you got a guy like that half the time on the ice, and the Leafs don't cover that well, he just ate him up. Yeah, he ate him up, for sure.

And then, you know, I think that's where I also feel like part of the perception of the game comes from the fact that it starts with Vancouver scoring to start a period. So immediately before the game gets started, you're like, oh, you know, that's your first vibe of the game. And then you're waiting for this push and the start of the third period, it happens again. Now it's three, nothing and it feels like the game's really over. It for this push and the start of the third period it happens again now it's three nothing and it feels like the games really over it just the whole game felt bad yeah on top of being bad it was bad

I will say bad I love hockey and I love watching hockey and I legitimately still look forward to that one a lot too. I love watching the league. I had a really hard time holding my attention that game that game was so bad to me and it just was such a lack And this is something that we've talked about with this team in the past. It's just there's these nights where it just doesn't seem like they have a lack of a sense of urgency and the nitrous a sense of Like maybe not even a sense of the moment. Is that too big? But just like on Saturday night like against Boston how much how much was it for a lower bowl ticket on Saturday night? Do you think?

Yeah, you're gonna spend Yeah against Vancouver. You're probably gonna spend three four hundred dollars and you may they're booing them off the ice I'm like, you know what? I'd be doing if I was there spent five hundred bucks on a dick Yeah I wouldn't booing my ass off because it was an ugly game to watch and I just you know You want a better effort against Vancouver? You know, is it is it playing every day catching up to them a little bit? I think it catches up to everybody over 82 games and like I'm not gonna sit here and

build in excuses but it has to be said that they've already played 10 back to back games. It's not just them, but Vegas could look really bad against the Islanders the other night. And there's some teams now going through it. Tampa Bay's had a recent bad run before turning it around now. Florida's had a bad run. Like there's, there's good teams that can get beat now. Now there is the frustration that because of the things you're talking about, you would have loved to see them grab that opportunity and get some distance atop the standings there, but it has felt like

if the big guys aren't playing well, you're not gonna get the offense and you're not gonna win. And right now, I'd say that top line didn't play well for a couple games in a row, or at least didn't have have the the things that make them special they kind of ho-hum And yeah that kind of that results in a loss one other thing stands out. Go ahead. No, i'm just I am fighting The perception of what this team actually is like it's you know, they won five in a row But even in some of those games they didn't yeah

Look particularly great one goal games against the aisles against the Flyers against like and There's a lot of people beating down my door telling me that this team isn't actually that good and I am fighting the first Okay. All right I am and maybe it's just starting to balance out a little bit here Because there are some games that we've watched this year where you're like, there's a lot of Things going right for them right now. They are just, they can't help but stand in the right place at the right time and block a shot and get a save. And it went along for like six weeks.

They should probably have fewer points than they do. They probably should. And it's just right now, especially these last two games, even the Florida games, right? Where we're like, that's some bad hockey, man. They could have easily lost this one. If they had Samsonov, they would have lost it. We've said it half a dozen times already. Well, now they're not getting that like,

Vezina goaltending, it's come down a notch here. They're not necessarily standing in the right spots and they're not getting any bounces, they're not getting any breaks that they've gotten earlier. Maybe it's just starting to balance out a tad. And going back to Carolina, minus six, Marner Matthews, nice I think was minus five. Combine minus 17. Listen, Iarner Matthews, nice, I think was minus five. Combine minus seven.

Listen, I don't even, I can never recall, I've been around this game a long time, even at the pro level, I can't ever recall seeing anybody minus six and being on the ice. On a first place team. Being on the ice for nine total shots on goal against your line and five go in. Do you know what the odds of that ever happening ever again? I don't think we've made a big deal though about that minus whatever.

But people want to look at it and read into it. What I said after the game I'll still say now, It's incredibly hard to be dashed X in a hockey game Happen very often so maybe it's just it's starting to Kind of come down to earth a little bit and yes you guys are we talked we talked about it last week you guys were really Hard on the fact that you know Brian McCabe Jake McCabe's out Yeah, okay, Jake McCabe site out. Yeah, hey Jake McCabe site matters That guy has really become a key

guy for the Toronto Maple Leafs and It's I Don't know where it's left the blue line. It's left it'll we know where it's left it. It's left it a lot more vulnerable Yeah, and till he comes back you're gonna have to find a way to scramble right now. I do have sort of two thoughts on this. One is that I've said this before in the show, I know, but I maintain the idea that the style they want to play, you just can't do, it involves all out effort, lanes, blocking shots, finishing

checks, grinding. I just think if you play that style and you don't have your energy, effort, compete, whatever, it doesn't look good. So I think it can still work in the playoffs. And I think even like 5% off. Like we're not talking about a large margin here. We're talking about just being offered like a split second. Yeah.

And but my point is that that to me is a good thing. I think that in playoffs, you'll see that. It'll look better. See, I'm not sure. I'm not sure either. I'm not sure. But I mean, if you're a Leaf fan, that's... And I only say that because it's so different than what they've been accustomed to.

And I've talked about this a little bit a Few months ago like you are on your best behavior training camp October November But I cannot emphasize enough What a grind at the NHL level is Going into February March to play a certain style a certain demand going into February, March to play a certain style, a certain demand every night you try to be the most physical guy or finish checks. And if it's not, if it doesn't come natural to you,

or you haven't done it in like the past 10 years of your career, but you're asked to do it now, and it's like, you know, Pacioretty's a prime example. He's been phenomenal. Halfway through prime example. He's been phenomenal. Halfway through the season, that guy is phenomenal. Couldn't have asked for more from him. Couldn't ask for more. Chug, chug, chug, chug, chug.

I don't know how he's gonna handle the next 41 games. It's slowing down. And if, like, do you think, like, he can rest or rejuvenate his batteries between now and April to get ready for two months of that every other night I don't it's a big ask. It is a big doesn't look like he's gonna be in the lineup tomorrow night against Dallas. So I mean It's it's gonna get actually harder to play Craig Bruby type of hockey Try to win that Atlantic division. Yeah, right push hard

hockey, try to win that Atlantic division, right? Push hard. Every game matters. Give us your all and then see what you have left in April. Yeah. I also think that there's some perception about Craig Borubi hockey and that this team is like they hit less than they did last year by the per game, whatever. Like I think Craig Borubi has changed some of the perception that like they're this, I don't know, wildly different system or something like that. Like they're playing a very similar system. Berube just prioritizes, block that shot, finish that check, that's it, right?

He grinds the players on an individual level. And straight lines, pucks deep. Yes, you'd rather pucks go deep for sure. But the problem is, again, Maybe they should try that on the power play then. Good point. If you want'd rather pucks go deep for sure. But the problem is If good point If you want to get a puck in deep you better be on your toes to go get it back And I think that's what's been the issue here. How's that when you are off this five? Seven percent and you are a split second late on a four check

and you are a split second late on a four check, well then all you're going to do is dump it in, watch Quinn Hughes turn around, look over shoulder two or three times and there's one and done. He must be the most frustrating guy in the world to play against where you think you got him pinned deep and he just like squiggles by you somehow. How the hell did that happen? Squiggle is the best word you've ever seen. How did that happen? Squiggler out there.

All he does is that. The best word how did that happen wiggler? I've been a big fan of Craig Berube so far But like if it ain't working change it up do something different. You can't keep dumping it in That blue line and watching them walk out on a red carpet Yeah, I think that's that's a good point. The one thing, you know that I Consider myself a pretty in-depth analyst, I watch video and watch all the games. One thing that I never noticed that you brought to my attention is the team as a whole does not pass the puck particularly well. So I heard a lot of these guys comments about disconnected.

We were disconnected. We need to come up with a five-minute unit. Barube said disconnected. Yeah, Matthew said disconnected. So I went to staff athletes and checked out. They need to come up. I said disconnect. Yeah, Matthew said disconnected So I went to stathe athletes and checked out they have some like passing stats. They're expected goals passing and first in the NHL is Edmonton Colorado Vegas

it's the good team the good really good teams and second last at 31st at the Leafs and In what's the other category assisted high danger chances the lease our ninth in the NHL and in what's the other category? Assisted high danger chances. The Leafs are ninth in the NHL in high danger chances. They get a lot. They're top 10 in that category. In assisted ones that are created by a pass, they're 29th. So they have guys that create them on their own, but they don't.

So to me, when they say this, I think it's true. I think they got a lot of shooters, a lot of guys who like to score. But you're two best center men. I've been beating this down on you guys. And you look at me like I've got a lot of shooters, a lot of guys who like to score. You're two best center men. Listen, I've been beating this down on you guys. You look at me like I've got a third eye. You make it about positional, and it's everywhere. Willie's not a shooter or a passer either.

Knives isn't a passer either. McMahon's not a passer either. In the middle of the ice. Those have the freedom to go left, right, anywhere they want. The wingers don't. They don't. Well, I mean, once they're out of their own zone, they do. They're all over the rink. They just don't pass it well. Either as a team. They don't have pass. Tavares has strength six feet around the net.

Of course. It's not. And in board battles, he's really good. Yes. But it's not moving the puck. Yeah. And we know Matthew it's not moving the puck. And we know Matthews wants to shoot the puck. But he does pass fine too. He grades out in everything as a pretty decent passer.

I know that he shoots it first. Everyone knows that. So then you might bring those points up and those stats are fantastic, very telling stats. That to me is just screams out like that's why the power play sucks. I agree with that. I think that's why one dimensional players don't have enough great passers That's why they can't like I don't know I mean we ran a B roll pack on least talk after the game that was put together by Luke squadron and it was just Them trying to make passes on the power play and it looked like the zigzags

Like this just couldn't make a pass was bonking off legs Like go trying to go cross seam through hundred sticks like it was horrible And I had what those stats to me tell me all I need to know they don't pass it to the slot effectively at all They don't see it on the power play. They cannot disguise Passes they don't and as I said the guys who pass don't look people off. And as I said, the guys who pass don't shoot. So it's like we're all one-dimensional here. I found that a couple times they made plays like Marner went down to Willie at the goal line. And instead of like taking it to the net for a 2-on-1, it's walking back up the wall.

I saw that a number of times. I actually clipped a few. I break them up. I have... Obviously, you're going to keep Marner and Matthews together, but I have Willie on another unit. And I'm like... Who could argue now? You're not succeeding. And, like, depending on when the penalty is drawn, my next power play that's up gets it. Not Matthews or Marner or not Willie or John, whoever's up. Okay? Until you get it going, I see you guys equals.

I don't care how much money you make or you. And McMahon's got to be involved. Domi's got to be involved in one of two units. Well, everyone looked at me like a freak when I said they should leave Matthews off when they were rolling a little bit. Naomi's gotta be involved in one of two units. Everyone looked at me like a freak when I said they should leave Matthews off when they were rolling a little bit, but hey. Well, guess what?

They went back to five forwards today at practice, so that'll do it. They actually did practice before, like they used to do this under Boucher, I guess, and they went out before practice, just the power play. Yeah, I mean, you can look at it, we can talk about, until we're blue in the face, about the issues from that game on Saturday night, but there is no way you can look at we can talk about into a blue in the face about the issues from that game on Saturday night

But there is no way you can deny that their power play in the first period completely killed that game Where they finally got some momentum they finally got the power play they were playing better the guys take a penalty and then the Vancouver got more chances than the Leafs did on their power. They couldn't complete a pass Do we want a Borubi power play? Yeah, so he talked about it after the game, but then I was listening to today and the clip today is probably better. So Borubi clips six on the power play, Derek. Yeah power play has been 23% over the last game, 10 games, which is pretty good.

You know, could it be better? Yeah. Um, you know, for me, it's sometimes a time of game when you get a power play and you just kill your momentum with it, you know, that's what stands out. And we've got to be better at that where we generate momentum off the power play. It doesn't always go on the net, but we've got to generate momentum off the power play. It doesn't always go on the net, but we gotta generate momentum. And how you do that is by execution and attacking and shooting pucks.

That's exactly right. So it does the opposite now. Everybody, it's like when you're going up, your buddy that's got the chipping yips and he's about to hit one, everyone around the green is like, oh God, this is gonna be a skull. And then you're just, they're going out there and everyone knows it sucks. The whole building knows it sucks They can't make a pass. Everybody's grumbling. They got the yips. It's got a build momentum. It kills it

Yeah, it kills the game. What's the percentage if you take away the empty net power play goal they got? Yeah, I also I don't love that right all right, we know it's we gotta get to this because it's been I think last couple of days been the talk about the Leafs and the comments after the game it The internet ran away with it right social media. It just drove everybody nuts basically. Yeah, I think we can all agree that Mitch Marner maybe isn't the best media talker All right. So why don't we go to Mitch Marner?

Just then just to tee this up I got I put the quote I put the question from Luke in there to to create context for the clip So so basically this is Mitch Marner's perception of Saturday night which was much different from Craig Barubis or Chris Tanev. Let's have a listen. How would you judge the effort level tonight on your guys' part? I liked it. I mean I thought we played well. I really did. You know I think just last couple games we've been giving up plays teams that aren't missing on them. So I thought we were good five man tight in our zone. I thought we went to the neutral zone as a unit.

I think when we didn't do that, that's when breakdowns happen and they had a lot of offense off it and that's something that we talked about that we need to be better at and we'll look at it going forward and fix it. So again, that's coming off of Chris Tanev, who basically said they outworked us, they outcompeted us, and it's unacceptable. And Borube did something similar in the overview of the game. So I mean, for me, that's pretty... I think the question in terms of Luke saying the effort level and him saying I liked it,

I think it got taken a little bit out of context on Twitter when you read it versus what you hear it. But saying that I thought we played well, I probably wouldn't agree with that. But the one thing- What the heck are you talking about? The one thing about this market and the Mitch Marner relationship

is it never really works out well when he's talking to the media. And this has always been an issue with him. And it's always been a perception. Above and beyond anyone else on the club. This is just a continuation of the relationship between the fan base and Mitch Marner. But he says the worst stuff.

Well, he's, yeah, I mean, first of all, I don't know even if he was even aware of other comments. Like, I gotta think, if somebody would've got to him and said, hey, listen, this is what Chris Tanniff said just seconds before, I'm not sure he would've necessarily come up. He believes it. He believes what he said.

Yeah. Right? And you lose three nothing on a signature game like that. People don't want to hear it. Yeah, you can't say that. Like you just have to have some awareness of the frustration of everyone as difficulty reading a room. Right. I'd say that's the end of that conversation like that. I agree. And that's kind of it for me is where it's just like, even maybe effort's not bad. I looked through some stats, I watched some video. It's like they weren't that bad. But it's not the time. Everyone wanted more from me and you didn't give it to them. So you just kind of got to go, oh, we didn't have it tonight

or whatever. To me, it's not like a fundamental moral failing of Mitch Marner. It's that you just can't really say that. It's consistent with the way he probably feels he gets treated. I think that's- Because anyone else would have probably, but there's a history there and- Buddy, Matthew said that today.

He said he liked it and everyone else has liked it. Not like Mitch. No, not like Mitch because of the history. Yeah, because of the history. But, you know, and that's that's that'll play into His decision down the road it do I want to continue to be like this is this the town I want to play the rest of my career in if they just take anything I say and twist it around and

Like you think you think he like I think he's like a burner guy I think he's going on X and what people are saying about where would he come across that fan people said to be honest I haven't come across that fan reaction I have it's impossible to I think we didn't have growth social media here in the 90s I'm telling you it's impossible to not pick up a vibe in a town on the way people feel About you or the way they talk to your family or the way, you know all of it. It's just Whether he's got it whether he's looking on

Instagram or Twitter X or whatever you want to say the everything app he Sorry do my he knows what's out app? He knows what's out there. He knows what's out there. Can I ask you that he is so sick and hates talking to the media that everyone's expecting him to come out and that he says bad and he just resents him so hard that he just wants to say the opposite? Just zag. Zag for zag sake.

I mean listen, I'm fully aware of what a zag is. I've been doing sports radio for six, seven years here. I apologize. I'd like to apologize. He just resents it so much. I don't think he sits there and zags on purpose. But what I will tell you is I don't think he gives a crap. You don't?

Well, I think it's the opposite of what you just said. I think he gives the biggest crap. At this point in his career as a leaf. I think he's Good then none of this matters. We don't know it doesn't matter to him. This doesn't matter to him Oh, phew, so I thought it was gonna affect his decision of whether to stay or not, but oh it could it's a notch I'm saying it could it doesn't matter to know it what matters is that he's looking at I mean, I may only have six months of this left. That's for sure.

That is something where he's just like, I could say whatever the hell I want and I'm gonna be playing in Anaheim in six months. That would be great. It'd be great if your 11 million debt guy has already quit. He's already like, yeah, six months, I'm out of here anyway, whatever. That'd be really inspiring to hear.

Buddy, no different than Tavares in the island no different than any other guy going into free agency those all ended disastrously Well, the fans hate them the difference with Tavares is is Tavares is like, you know I like I would like to be here and I'd like you to not treat and Marner has not said that so I don't think Listen, there's only one way this plays out with Marner and the fans. But, you know, he's on pace for 110. The guy's been their MVP. He's not quitting. No, no, no, he's doing great.

Here's what I'll say. There's only two ways this plays out. Either he stays and there's this lifelong weird relationship between Leafs fans and Marner, and there always will be. There'll be a section that loves them, section that hates them, just the way it is. Or he leaves and every Leaf fan's saying,

how did you let him leave? Those are the two way it goes. Right, like next year at this time when Marner's got the same amount of points lighten up with Bedard in Chicago and everyone's like, how the hell did we let him go to sign Sam Bennett who's got one goal in his last 25 games? How do we do this? Or he stays and everyone resents him.

So those are the two ways this plays out. Either way, we'll have a ton to talk about. Doesn't hurt our show. It doesn't hurt our show. Although I will say this, if you let them leave and they lose a lot more, that hurts our show. Oh yeah. Good chat, boys.

We should go. Save that clip, by the way. We may be playing it a lot. What I just said? Both of you. Oh, listen. Both of you. I've always said, I've been consistent

since the start of the year This is what you do You plug your nose you sign it. Yeah Pay him the money. We'll see we'll see it. Hey, I said Like this is a team that we could sit there and knock for for a few days And then they can turn around and be Dallas for-2. We left 14 clips on the table. Hey, good thing I spent my whole day cutting them. Five tree living clips.

I don't give a crap. We got Gord, we can play him with Gord. Tomorrow's Leafs Hour 2, there's no game tonight. Who cares? I had a great time chatting. I could not care less. Just plug these back in the system tomorrow. We're good to go.

Okay, take a quick breather here. When we return, Gord Stelick, analyst for Sportsnet 590, the fam, former general. He's already waiting? Derek? We better throw it to commercial quick so we can get to Gord. Is he at the dog? I don't know.

Let's let him go. He's waiting in the zoo. All right. All right. After these words with Stelectricity. We're back on the real kipper and boring show. Okay, let's get to him right away because he's been waiting since the second period Saturday night to be on our show. Sorry, Gord.

Gord Stalek, Toronto Maple me belief analyst for sportsnet 590 the fan former general manager of the leaves and our go-to guy right now Gordo, how are you pal? Kippy, I'm good. I heard you reference the dog park I used to take our dog to down by Don Valley golf course I think I told you a year ago He turned to bread into Brad Marshawnand and he cut another dog, so he got stitches.

I'm trying to find out, maybe that dog's name was Pasternak. What do you think? Maybe my dog was ahead of the time. What is going on? Take control of your pet. Well, anyway, it was $800 vet bill. So now Blue, I take him outside. He goes, why am I not getting in the car?

Why am I going these crappy walks around the neighborhood? Why am I not getting exercise? Hey Blue, that's all I can afford, okay pal? That's it, that's it. So, Gord, Saturday night we didn't see much fight in the dog out of the leaf Saturday night, and I'm not making excuses, but it is the halfway mark, compressed schedule,

back to backs, injuries, like like are they one of a handful of good teams now that can go through a lull or there's some concerning things that you saw Saturday night. Okay, so that word perspective which all of us except Sammy have okay about taking a look now first about Saturday three great NFL games at a Leaf game what a perfect day that turned to be non-perfect for all four particular games so you're talking about team that is having a solid regular season let's Carolina game get away from themselves and I'm telling you Kip the adjusted I don't know and I mean I handled travel for a lot of years and I know about the pitfalls about storms and things like

that and particularly back in the air before cell phones, and you're on pins and needles. And I got to tell you, my memory seems to be that whatever something went south, whatever reason, it worked out well for the team. Like a couple years ago, remember the Red Wings came late on a Sunday night, and they kicked Elise's ass as well. So it's funny, I wasn't surprised about that as far as Vancouver went. They got that goal early, and it was a flat game.

Now, you know, those are the kind of games at home, Mike, I think of someone who gets one home game a year to go to, I feel bad for them, but all in all, we don't have a lot we can complain about. The one thing postgame though is, like I think Mitch Marner said something like we played well where Chris Tanna basically said we sucked. And that's what's got to change. And Sheldon Keefe was the first guy last year said, hey, I've done well, but we never got to the next level.

And, you know, Chris Tanna's basically said, I've been around for a long time. There's about a dozen games you can just say inexcusable. And there's no problem with that. You know, you can't have 82 games and not say that. So I prefer that, that no, no, we didn't play. You lost three, nothing at home. So these kinds of games are inexcusable and they're especially they're more so inexcusable to happen too often in the playoffs. Yeah, absolutely. Gordon. And so what's interesting now, the offense has kind of been hit and

miss at five on five. They struggle for it at times. So one thing they've done now is they put Steven Lorenz on the top line. He's playing with Matthews and Marner. Um, I gotta tell you, don't hate it. What's your thought? Yeah, don't know. You know, um, I love, by the way, the pronunciation of his name, whatever he's cool with, whatever. We always think about Jim Lawrence, that it was kind of like Steve Lawrence and Edie Gourmet for people that are over. Maybe remember them. Okay. So

Carol Burnett gourd. Okay. Harvey Corbin, Tim Conway, Lyle Wagner. Okay. We can go on and on and lose the rest of the audience. So I'll bring it back there. This guy won with Florida. This guy, you know, I love the way he celebrated that goal. He got, you know, he doesn't get many of them. He's been a gamer as far as a great fourth line, third line, whatever edition. And one thing Craig Baru, we've mentioned it a number of times, like when, and that's something that was done well on the Rangers as well, Kip, you back in your day that, you

know, when St. Louis won, I always said, it seemed like he had 15 forwards for the 12 spots. And he seemed to do a good job about plunking a Sammy Blais in for a game or two and then out and then out and then moving some guys up and down at particular moments. I think it's the kind of thing that you give some sugar to somebody who's worked hard and you give them that kind of opportunity. You also explore other options that you have when, you know, depth becomes more and more of an issue

about having strong depth as you gear up for the playoffs. It's funny, Lorenz, you know, I'm like, can he do this, the Hyman thing? He was, Hyman was 29 the first time he crossed the 25 goal mark. I'm not seeing Lorenz is doing that. I'm saying though, that this line seems to succeed with someone that just gets pucks, right?

Plays a more physical style. Gord, the last two games, it just seemed like whether it's Carolina or Quinn Hughes Saturday night, the mobility of her blue line matters. And I'm just watching the Leafs the last two games. And I think it was a little bit of expose that for this leaf blue line to have success really has to come into the fact that you've got to be physical But you got to maintain your positioning in straight lines to block shots And even if you're off a little bit, uh, it won't work

Is there anything that you saw that maybe exposed them a little bit? And then we got a factor in that morgan riley is struggling. I cannot recall over his leaf career where I've seen him probably Feel most vulnerable and maybe lack some confidence. Do you see similar tendencies out of him now Yeah, I don't know the confidence part, but it's funny It's always talked about like your best defenseman

You shouldn't always be talking about who can they play with and you you know, it's funny, Luke Shen was such a great fit for him. Your best defenseman should be the one playing with everybody else. And that's who you partner with. And he kind of he kind of settles it down. It is by the way, you know, now Rick Tauken, I thought very smartly made a big deal. This gave him something to hang his hat on Elias Pettersson. And he kept saying, Petey had a great game. Okay.

And you know, they're looking for that in Vancouver, but Kip, to your point, I couldn't take my eyes off Quinn Hughes, holy crap, holy mackerel. Like, you know, that's what a player. So the accumulation of whether it's, okay, Morgan Riley being a bit off, you've got McCabe out, so you're lacking depth on D, your goaltending isn't, you know, number one, like it was before Christmas

in the NHL, so it's still fine, but it's not what it was. So there's an accumulation of a lot of different things, and it just didn't flat out any game, any sport you play, okay? It doesn't matter what level. There's a whole different animal when you get down early and you start chasing. I know it was only 1-0, but that line had cut the crap kids out of it in Carolina, and they're down 1-0 again, and it just almost seemed like that was that kind of it in Carolina and they're down one nothing again.

And it just almost seemed like that was that kind of mode as if you're down three nothing. So I don't read any big picture things in either game. They got a couple of tough tests now in Dallas and New Jersey to try to get back. I still think obviously the goal is to finish in first place to get home ice advantage and to make Scotiabank Arena a difficult place to play in.

It wasn't on Saturday and they'll have two good tests here with Dallas and New Jersey. in first place to get home ice advantage and to make Scotiabank Arena a difficult place to play in. It wasn't on Saturday and they'll have two good tests here with Dallas and New Jersey. What did you make of the decision not to start Joseph Wohl who had been, you know, kind of going every other day then all of a sudden hockey night in Canada you get Hildeby. That surprised me. Yeah, again, I guess throwing some sugar to Hildeby's way, I, cause I mean, we're trying to get this predict, what's the pattern gonna be for the goaltending? Will it be 50-50? When Stoller's come back, will it be 50-50?

And you know, I think by and large it will be, but I don't mind the gut feel. Like I remember Mike Babcock was always married to that, okay, the A goaltender started the first game, so Freddie Anderson didn't start his first game in Anaheim, you know, because it was the second game of a back-to-back. So much like I talked about Craig Barubey's ability to kind of, you know, move players in and out and that, I like going by field from time to time. But yeah, so you're giving the guy a bone.

Hockey in Canada, you're thinking he's going to fit into your plans depthwise as we move forward. But yeah, I initially was surprised. Gord, every year we've seen most of these guys have a very good power play during the regular season. And then yes, we can talk about how it disappointed in previous playoffs, but we have not seen this over this long of a stretch during any regular season,

what do you pinpoint the lack of success on the power play for you? Well, you can, I don't mean to pin everything on Morgan Riley, but you kind of look about when he, the guy that got 20 goals a couple of times, or at least once anyway, and just having that kind of weapon, and I think Oliver Ekman-Larson has done that to a degree, but

that part's a little bit diminished. You hear them about practicing the power play, but they're not the Chicago Blackhawks or Buffalo Sabres. I mean, it's the same guys, right? So it's not like as much as, well, maybe Steve Lawrence, maybe he'll get some play on the power play too. I don't know. Otherwise it's the same guys and it's the guys that have had a great power play. So there's a history there. So I, at times I get a little picky. The easiest thing as an observer, you're say, you know, don't overpass, get the puck to the net, get traffic, those kinds of basics. Maybe because they are, I mean, when they're clicking, it's like a clockwork orange, man. You know, they, they pass 10 times and you go, well, they pass four times too many, but they're clicking, it's like a clockwork orange, man. You know, they pass 10 times and you go,

well, they passed four times too many, but they put it in. So they found a way. So to me, maybe that's a part of it. When it isn't clicking, I have confidence it'll be worked out. I always take issue about, I think there's too much, too much onus on coaches anywhere. I guess they take the hit, whether it's hitting coaches,

pitching coaches in baseball, offensive and defensive coordinators in football. I mean, there was no better power play guy as a player than Mark Samard, and he's a great student of the game, watching the game, having worked with him in that. So he's gotta be as frustrated as anybody. Again, they're in first place. There are things that could be better,

and certainly one of them we all know is the power play. One thing I do, I regret not saying in the first part of our show when we were doing Overview, everyone's talking about they need to shoot more. Shooting to me, it's not like they're passing up shots. You need to create more shots with your feet. You need to get to better areas so you can shoot it. I don't need guys throwing pucks in from the boards, right?

On an onscreen goalie. I couldn't agree with you more. I think there's some times when they just force a shot because everyone's screaming pucks to the net. And it's like, you need to create separation. And bad decision, bad angle, turn over, puck rims around out of your zone. Well, it's no, and again, yeah.

And that's a good point, Justin, because you don't want to say about just shooting haphazardly and that. And it's funny as I sit in this room with a lot of leaf memorabilia, I'll throw a name that hardly anybody remembers. But when I started with the Leafs, God rest his soul, Joe Crozier was the coach for a brief period of time. And one of his things was that if a player did not get two shots on goal, like the next day they had to ride the bike for like half hour or something like that, we'd be losing game six one with 10

minutes left. Nick Kirby was with T. Everyone's taking shots from your own blue line just to get out of the bike ride the next day. I mean, that's such a misnomer what shots on gold meant. Back then you only had very basic stats. But I'm talking at the NHL level, that went on for a little while. So yes, your point is like, I, like I thought OEL did a nice job, um, couple of games ago, just, it doesn't have to be a hard shot if you make the right move and get the lane and it's to the net. And if it's, and there's options, if it's saved, cause there's players there and

there's a little bit of difficulty for the goal-takers, it doesn't have to be the big windup in that, but yeah, I think the old days are riding the bike when you don't get, cause nowadays there's's so few shots you'd have 15 players riding the bike every day the day after every game absolutely I was gonna ask about McCabe yeah just your thoughts like how did we ever imagine McCabe would be this important they look like a different team when he's not in the lineup I think actually Kip if I their record without their stars we know it's not bad without Matthews all right without Tavara's. All right, without Willie like, but with McCabe, they get killed.

Oh man, Justin, one of those, one of those pleasures when he joined the Leafs, right? And it's, you know, there's certain things that when you're not in the game in person, you don't, you don't get to, that's why I love every now and then, you know, being able to go and it's as much for opposing players just to kind of watch certain things they do, whether someone's shot, you really don't understand how they skate and all those things. And I like watching players that do smart things when they don't have the puck,

that just when they're on the ice, they're always doing what, as unimportant as it seems, whatever is the smartest particular thing to do in that instant. And to me, that's what he brought in a big, big way. And then he made the commitment to re-up it, not a ridiculous number. So all of a sudden, you know, you've added McCabe and then the, as a matter of fact, my Toronto Star column today, I guess it's the one day Nick Caprio's didn't publish, but I mentioned about the free agents, you know, you, you, you add Tannib and

Oliver Echeverl-Larsen, like you added two guys to your core four and not crazy money, right? You know, not Brady Shea money. You added two guys to your core four after getting McCabe. So that's been the nicest part because we know it's been one way forwards, forwards, forwards, no development. Rasmus Sandin is gone. You know, first round picks are gone.

Lilligran is gone. All these guys are gone. And it's been Morgan Rielly and whoever you get, and they seem to go a year or two later. Gordo, great stuff, man. Thanks for doing this today, pal. Okay, I'm going to take Blue for a walk now. Kipper, you guys take care. Okay, enjoy your dog park.

Gord Stehlik, former general manager, now does a terrific job on our show the park near my place is just Pure drama. It's not an off-leash park in the Facebook group. It's popping off both people there with their dogs off leash It's a hot hot topic The last time the last two games as far as the Leafs blue lines concerned pretty mobile defense out of Carolina Yeah, it's slave in Burns can still move right Provov No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, east, west, north, south mobility, watching one of two of the best in the world on the planet Saturday night with Quinn Hughes.

And to me, watching the Leafs, that's a big drop off. With that type- Most teams, it's a big drop off. that type of mobile that type of mobility But I also want to keep if that's not a problem about the Leafs D It's like do they not handle mobile defense as well because that's not you don't match mobile D with mobile D It's well you do you do when you try to create to yeah offensively right right offense that's unrelated to the other side I feel like it's like how do you shut that down or contain? On the other side. Yeah, I'm watching

lack of creativity in the last two games against two pretty good hockey clubs That's all and maybe like outside of Morgan and I don't know what oh, he else kind of dropped off here, too Boys, we haven't really talked about that, but he's he's dropped. He's got a big green He's got a pick back up McCabe's not coming in to help with that type of mobility either he's got to be that shut down guy well Luke shen ain't fixing that problem that's what you're but Jason that's that's the pressure on Morgan now too is to be more mobile to be look like it look like a poor man's Quinn Hughes for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Yeah, he hit a crossbar. Snapped it. Yeah. That's about it. That's all I got for you. Centimeter from bar down. That's all we got. All right.

All right. Our thanks to Gord Stelick moments ago. We're back with Gary Galley as we go national here. When's Hock and Pop back? Hock and Pop. Not soon. Don't hold your Uh... not soon. I'll hold your breath.

Not soon. Gary Galley, as we cover the league nationally next. Unreal Kipper and Bourne.