Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Position Battles + Rangers Run-In

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

Justin Bourne and Sam McKee welcome in Gord Stellick with Kyper away, and they start the off-day edition by sharing their early impressions of Craig Berube behind the Leafs' bench. They get an update on Joseph Woll's status, discuss the battle between Liljegren and Timmins for 6th D and evaluate the play of a Holmberg/Tavares/Robertson line. Finally, MSG analyst and former Rangers defenceman Dave Maloney (39:31) shares his thoughts on New York's season ahead of their matchup against the Leafs on Saturday.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

welcome in to real kipper and born i am justin born you're probably not used to my voice bringing you in and that is because we're without nick hipprius today but uh we have upgraded we have picked up on the waiver wire today with extra peppers it's g's Gord. Stelic. Gord, how are you? Well, what am I, the James Reimer, you know, waiver wire pickup? You know what? I'm really good. I'm really good. I guess Kipper's visiting his daughter.

Is that right? Or was he trying to keep it quiet? Is he on assignment? On assignment. He's on assignment. Yeah. He's in parts unknown. He's getting his Stanley Cup ring refitted or something.

Whatever that is. The honest answer is, like, you wouldn't even believe how little we communicate off the air. I think he's in Eastern USA somewhere. I think he's maybe going to see a Clemson football game potentially. Potentially? I don't really know. But when you chat with Kipper, you'll chat.

He's very personable. Oh, yeah. But you'll chat and he'll be distracted by a myriad of things, usually texting, and then you'll get the delayed three minutes later. So what? Wow, so your son's doing, yeah, that's what I said three minutes ago. I didn't think you were listening. I would say 80% of my mornings start with him on his phone as I walk in

going, what's up, bud? And I say, yeah, I was just doing this, and he goes, good. No processing of it. It's great. Thanks for joining us, Gord. We appreciate it. We got Derek Brandeo and Jake the Snake Schultz on tech. We are live on Sportsnet 5. Oh, it's Frank the Tank.

Sam McKee on the hook for that one. We'll welcome. Listen, it's a it's an absolute rotating cast of characters up there. I'll eat that one, but yeah, it's my bad. Sorry, Frankie boy. But live on 590 The Fan and Sportsnet 360 and Sportsnet Plus.

So Gord, we haven't had you in studio yet this year. The Leafs have played a few hockey games. Do you want to share some early impressions of this year's Toronto Maple Leafs? Well, first, I love what you've done with the place. Thank you. Maybe done with the place. Thank you. It looks really good. Maybe it looks the same.

But, you know, so, okay, the Toronto Maple Leafs, it's like my taking calculus. Okay, so in grade 12, there was grade 13 back then. And then first and second year university, I took it. You had to take it for one year. And then because my mark didn't quite hit 50 i took it for a second year so it's like every year i felt good about things yeah and then the exam happened and it didn't go so great okay and so that's the toronto maple leafs so i feel good about things again okay like i've done every year and the final exam which we'll talk about game number 82 and a half game number 83 of course will be the ultimate litmus litmus test but as far as

the positives now lots of positives like finding a way to win games come in first place yeah get home ice advantage don't have the tough first round opponent right you know just get the whole thing about kicking ass scoring your building you know making home a difficult place for opponents to play. So I've liked all that. I don't get overly excited that Austin Matthews hadn't scored, that the power play hadn't worked, whatever it may be. What kind of effect is Craig Berube going to make? What kind of effect is Austin wearing the C going to do?

It's a lot to expect in five games, that minutia. But that's what we do. That's why we have talk radio and talk TV. So I just look at it a big big positive start which a lot of other teams can't say they have that it's it's nice to get a positive start so gordia a lot of people talk to you about the leafs i'm assuming a lot of people come to you about the leafs talk to you about the leafs in your in your in your day-to-day life yeah i have to say the the tone around the start of this season is much different than even in the last

two years they've been studying harder than you in calculus court is what he's saying what i'm saying is is that i think the change of coach and i think we all kind of pined for change in the offseason talking about marner potentially all that stuff that we that didn't happen but the thing that did happen was the new coach and i feel like the talk around them amongst my friends amongst my leaf fan people that are in my life it's a much more positive feel and less i i don't know what the right word for it is it just feels a little more positive in the conversations i have do you feel the same way well i think so and i'm not gonna fly off the handle like i did this but i like flying off the handle about the big differences and sheldon keith actually saying

we didn't finish it so I got a great regular season coaching record I'm going to get another job he didn't say that but he did get another job but no we did not complete the deal as an ownership a management a coach and the players and finally finally they're they're espousing that understanding it doesn't cut it I and I did a I did a corporate thing once one and only once that Shanahan, we did kind of a hot stove with the milk group. I must have done well because they're now on their jerseys for the last few years. Oh, yeah. There's about 1,000 people.

There's a lot of milk out there. So about 1,000 people. And so let me get it right. So it's heading into COVID, so 2020. So middle of that season, COVID hadn't hit yet. And someone asked that question about if you don't have the playoff success and he said i know it's not the answer you want to hear i know it's not the sexy answer but you just have to go back at it again and you know believe in what you do

and all that but you know here we are four years later so i think even brendan shannon would say i wouldn't give that same answer four years later like i gave back then that was before they played columbus and montreal and all those things so it it held water for a few years they had a plan it was going well but now yeah so any i just think that any kind of positive how will it translate later in the playoffs well you got to think you got to think positively if it's going well you know that's going to be a good thing yeah i think isn't it the the old metaphor that like a rock splitter like you hit the same place a million times and it doesn't happen then the million and first time it just splits in two it kind of feels like the maple leaf's only hope here that this thing all at once just kind of comes together even though the metaphor is about falling apart and they

weren't saying and yeah no but also they weren't saying oh the criticisms were for poor so-and-so yeah like that used to be the the thing you know like like it'd be like poor gourd getting criticized for flunking calculus, and you're, well, I should. What do you mean poor Gord? Like, whatever. I mean, I got to take it again, and I got to do whatever. It's on me, right?

Well, that's the Marner conversation, is it not? I said A player. But anyway, yeah. But that's what's different now. You're 100% right about never mind that crap. Okay, whatever. Just, you know. And I like it.

They all own up. They got a very comfortable group on and off the ice. Okay, whatever. Just, you know. And I like it. They all own up. They got a very comfortable group on and off the ice. They get it. This could be, like you see Crosby and Malkin the other night. You know, just the milestones together. Like, honest to God, like in X number of years, these guys could all, well, I'll include Riley, but the three forwards and then Riley. But that could be them.

They could be setting records like, oh my God, it's Austin's 1,000th point tonight. Mitch got his 700th assist last week. But how different is it if it doesn't come with team success? Totally. That it's not successful. That it's not successful. But I mean, that's what it could be. I mean, they've committed to being here.

Mitch apparently wants to be here. So theoretically, if they get some team playoff success, that could be a case down the road that'd be neat it is funny you see guys who had great careers i think of charles barkley on the tnt broadcast who constantly just like he has to hear about it all the time doesn't matter what his individual accomplishments were the thing that stands out when you think of barkley is like he's the guy who didn't win it so yeah it will have an effect i think the the best parallel for the least would be the sharks right would be the Sharks, right?

It would be that era of the Sharks. But the Sharks went deep in playoffs. They went to the finals a couple – they go twice or once. I think they did, but I also think it was later in the tenure. No, there's no parallel. There's no parallel. Even the Washington Capitals, when they hadn't won the Stanley Cup, would win playoff rounds, okay?

Yeah, you're right. They'd be disappointed. They'd lose the second round of the Penguins. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, they'd get – yeah. But, no,. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, something. Whatever. Yeah, they'd get back. Yeah, you know, but no, this is sort of unparalleled. Yeah. Yeah. Well, if they're going to get

through, one of the things that's been talked about is goaltending. Love to talk about that because Ilya Samsonov is not the guy. Go back years. None of them were the guy. Joseph Wohl was supposed to be the guy this year. Anthony Stolarz looks unbelievable, but the Wohl injury story still interests me. We do have an update. We have two separate updates updates two separate updates from brube and do we not have one

from wool we have four clips yeah yeah we just one contradict the other no okay good uh we'll uh you drive the bus on the clips in the order there's all right well we'll start with brube clip one just his first update on wall how How did Wall look to you today? Good. Yeah, he's out there with us, which is a great sign. And, you know, it seems like, you know, he's really heading in the right direction. All good. Good.

I like that one. Google the phrase vague. But also, it seemed like he was in good spirits there. Berube clip two update on Wall, please, Derek. Do you have a sense of a timeline for when he might be ready for games? Sooner than later, I would think. But, you know, you've got to kind of take a day by day still. You know, I think it's important here after practice just to see where he's at. I haven't talked to him yet, so we'll figure that out way to

go craig he's learned he's learned be personable he actually was anything he was an insider for us on nhl morning skate after he got fired in st louis he was once a week insider oh yeah and he was good he was a little more forthcoming than that but he understood about toronto like in a sense so yeah be personable be friendly don't be a. Don't be a jerk. Don't say anything interesting. But don't get, you know, like be, I don't call it vague, but you're right. Yeah. You know, yeah, well, damn it. Yeah. Well, he's not being an actor.

He was on the ice. It's like Gord showed up for calculus class. Yeah, you're there. He's got, like, he's doing a great job of putting on a nice guy move here. For sure. Just, you know, it's October 18th. October 18th? Yeah, of the first year of his tenure.

Yes. So we're two weeks into his career. Don't read him. Yeah, he's doing a great job of being a nice guy. But who said he's not a nice guy? I know. No, he is a nice guy. I know he's a nice guy, but I just mean in terms of not, you know.

I'm saying he's doing a great job because I wouldn't be able to sit there every day and answer these questions about Wall when he clearly doesn't really know. I would be like, you know what? I'll tell you when it's right. Well, I love being here and evaluating these comments and not being Luke Fox who has to lob the question every day. I know. Because one day it feels like he's going to be like, enough.

Yeah, but you got to ask it. I mean, hey, look what they're making money wise and this is a big part of their job yeah they don't allow assistant coaches to speak anymore right you there's only one there's only one voice and you know mike babcock we went through these sermon on the mounts all the time you know his him lecturing us about things so i and i thought sheldon keith was really good at this and and because the craig berube the misnomer is he's not and even vince lombardi was beloved by him i'm going way back but you know those kind of old And Craig Berube, the misnomer is he's not – and even Vince Lombardi was beloved by him.

I'm going way back, but those kind of old legends, right, was beloved by his players when it was all said and done. Everyone's going to go, Craig Berube is not going to take that crap. If you coach like that or think you can from decades ago, you're screwed in 2024. And he gets it. But there is a difference. There's something he has,

and it's good. And I don't know whether we call it toughness or an edge or whatever that is different than what Sheldon Keefe had or others. And it's a big-time positive. And it was a significant reason why the St. Louis Blues won a Stanley Cup. For sure. And we also have Wohl on this. Yeah.

So we can play the first Wohl clip. Is he vague, too, about himself? Well, his first clip, please, Derek, on his injury, wool. We spoke to you right before the season. You sounded so excited to play in that first game. What happened? What kept you out? Yeah, you know, just a little bit of groin tightness

and I'm feeling better now, so right now I'm just focused on, you know, coming back and helping this team. He said a thing. He said what it is. God, that's nice. Boy, that's never a problem historically. Goalies with going tight. Oh, he's worked out perfectly.

The Ottawa Senators are waiting for Dominic Hachette to come back from the Olympics that year. Oh, no. Oh, you're so right. Okay, it's a great. And then his second clip, please, Derek, where he takes. Oh, go ahead. You know, truthfully, I don't want to get too much more into it, if that's okay. Yeah, just focus on getting better now.

So he did what I would do. He said, I don't want to do it anymore. I don't want to talk about it anymore. So... What else do you have to say about groin tightness? What, like, what... Well, that's a great point. There's no...

There's separate questions about it. But there's no additional information there. My groin was tight. Well, like, that... Like, is your left side worse than your right side? Like, what do you got... Like, come on. That answer came off of somebody asking when it happened and what what it was that it happened like how did that how did it happen basically and he's like and he just said

i don't want to talk about it anymore that's good reporting whoever i don't blame him yeah so i don't really blame the reporter either for following up of course there's no such thing as a bad question no so the big question is gordon where are you at with wall that's a brutal question no that's a big question yeah where are you at with Wall? That's a brutal question. No, that's a big question. Where are you at with him? So game number one, where I'm at, and again, I want to get perspective and context. But I did say game number one that, okay, things about the season. You know, you just got to, guys, they have to find their scoring in the playoffs.

So they'll score in the regular season, whatever. Guys have to come up with a big game defining moment that doesn't show in the score sheet and so far they've had that whether it's the third or fourth line being a difference in games but then about the goaltender's health so when he did not play game seven last year yeah and then wasn't ready for game one i said oh crap one of the boxes already is unchecked okay and that remains unchecked it'll remain unchecked to game number 83 for el gordo even if he plays 45 games and doesn't get hurt again that's there's still that kind of worry but the flip side there's no surprise if you follow last year anthony stoller statistically

was one of the top goaltenders in the nhl and goaltending is the one thing that statistics really you can you know even you don't have to look deep no you look deep for other stuff and you're quite good at that but go goaltending, it's pretty simple. People can look and make goals against average, say percentage, yada, yada, yada. So that was the plus that, unlike Samsonov, like you said earlier, they got somebody else, another stud. I'm just really big on Joe Wall.

I'm really big on him if he gets the chance. What I've seen, I've really liked. But when it starts again that's that that's a legitimate concern it is funny that we feel no closer to an answer like he's available soon we got games monday tuesday thursday next week i expect him to be in a leafs jersey by tuesday you'd hope i would hope i just you know i think at some point here what's the difference what do you mean you hope what's the difference? So what if it's another week? So another two weeks?

Well, I don't know. How much of a band-aid are you okay with the guy being before it's like, this is a real problem? Well, no, I just want him to get healthy too. You're not talking about rushing him, but I'm just saying, okay, whatever it is, then he gets back, and like I said, I even said if he plays the rest of the season and doesn't have another like game loss due to injury

but whether he misses the next two games or the next 10 games you're still going to be kind of on pins and needles the next time go oh no not again you know 50 games in the season whatever that's basically what I mean it's a fan's perspective but even when he gets back into the game every shot that goes towards

him you're going to be thinking about it and I'm sure like people that work in the organization. Nobody thinks like you, Sam. No, no, no, no. You don't think, like, every, come on. You don't think you're living. You don't watch the bloody game. You don't think you're living.

Like, every shot. Oh, my God. Shot against Joe Willis. I would say that, and you mentioned the Game 7 thing last year. It really was a deep cut in terms of how it made everybody feel. And I think it paints a lot of how we're feeling about it to start this year. Like you mentioned in your thing there. My tie read.

I would like to see him get in there soon. I don't want to be listening to Berube every day being like, yeah, it's getting close. It's getting close because it's... Paul, he doesn't want to say it either. No, I know he doesn't. But he's being a nice guy. He's being a nice guy.

Remember we went that whole thing about we had to get, because Kawhi Leonard with load management, so we had to get Freddie load management. And then Freddie started getting hurt all the time, right? You know, so. Yeah, it's, goaltenders are like voodoo, and no one seems to have an answer. But it is nice to have.

The one thing with Stolarz that I like is the question you've labeled as, what's the catch? Yeah. Like, it just seems like everything's great. Great guy. Big guy. Moves well. Stops the puck.

29 years old. Cheap. What are we missing? Yeah. Well, be the Charlie Lindgren this year. Yeah. The Charlie Lindgren of Washington, right? That's why Darcy Kempers in LA.

Like, the guy gets a chance, and he could be the guy. Could be the guy. And too bad, Joe Wall. Like, you know, Jordan Bennington seized the opportunity in St. Louis. Too bad, Billy Huso, who was ahead of him at the time. That'd be great. Not the guy is Timothy Lilligren on the back end.

God, they practiced today, and Lilligren's out again. Yeah. Back out. You know, you mentioned before we came on air the shot attempts when he was on the ice last game. Like, how does that happen? 20 against and 2-4. Tough to get back in the lineup when you're a fringe guy.

But, boy, tough to do anything with Lilligren if he doesn't play hockey games. Like, he's just going to watch until Timmons gets hurt. But on the other hand, how do you keep Timmons out, who didn't do anything wrong, and I think they just wanted to get Lilligren in at some point. Yeah. It's got to be tough to be Lilligren,

because we've talked about this, Gordo, that he's not exactly the type of guy that's going to go in there and do a bunch of amazing things to like wow you right like his whole thing is to be sort of solid and just kind of a quiet defenseman and when you're trying to make an impact on a coach maybe that's not the best the best thing to do i don't know what your thoughts on on him are on him but seems like they're in a tough spot with him well they weren't really thrilled about his contract negotiation either i know you know you know kind of of just thought that it could have been handled differently and

settled more amicably, whatever. But I mean, they move on from stuff. You should, but it just, it kind of showed a, yeah,

it showed a sign of what, how he valued himself. And, and they, you know, they, they negotiated probably a little higher than they wished. I mean,

it's just after Rasmus Sandin and Stuart Percy years ago. And now can you, can we develop a defenseman in Toronto? Yeah. Like, you know, Morgan Riley is it, you know, so you're hoping and I'm honest to God, Justin, I'm trying to remember now that when Lilligren played his best, you know, it's all kind of

morphing together because I thought Rasmus Sandin had kind of crossed to the next level and, I mean, they did get a first round pick for him and they used him quite well with Easton Cowan, right, you know, but in the case the case of lulligan i'm trying like when did he play his best like it seems like he never did now but i know like what was last year in like february march there was like a time when it was like he's figured it out and before the marshall thing like at the start of the year last year he had really kind of turned it on a bit and then

marshall trips him into the end boards and he that's right he's high ankle sprain i remember we were talking about him being on the way out his footing back the injury thing yeah but but you know it's funny because he came back from that and we chalked up a run a poor play to oh he's coming off this injury but he looks like that same guy now so was it related to injury at all then tough to say we do have a brooby on connor timmons who i think is a pretty like a decently high upside guy given the way he sees the ice his size right shot so let's hear brooby clip three i thought he played well um moving the puck and doing those things that he's capable of doing that he's a he's a good puck mover he's a good playmaker he can make plays he sees the ice pretty well and for me it's all about

the defensive side of things you know um he was killing penalties which was good and he did a good job and uh you know making sure he's strong defensively strong in the battles you know winning those because that's important because that's what we need from them i wish we had yesterday's lilligran clip from brew because he said he needs to be strong in the battles win his battles like he's like whoever's gonna be my 6d i would like you to win he was fine i mean you know he felt they're killing so the interesting part about he got what 14 minutes five on five i don't know what it was oh yeah you know he he was pretty solid yeah i don't know what it was. Oh, yeah. You know, he was pretty solid. Yeah, I don't know if that's the one.

But whatever. The same idea is that he wants that D to win puck battles. Not asking much. So here's maybe the whole flip of things, that he is the example Craig Berube's using. That, okay, you're the third and fourth line forwards. It seems to be they understand the style of play Craig Berube wants them to play. Like, we talk about it more north-south. Not of play craig barubi wants them to play like can we talk about it more north south not that sheldon keith wanted them to go exclusive

east west but just a little bit more about and we saw with that that uh the goals they got about like lawrence the one about just being more aggressive maybe taking more chances you may end up with more odd men rushes against but whatever kind of thing if you got a chance to press in the offensive zone take it come at him at him hard. Yeah. And we've seen that. And probably what he's saying, look, if you're going to be a fifth or sixth defensive on my team, you got to play a certain style. And Lilligren, you ain't playing it.

Right. Okay. And the rest of the team, he ain't playing it right now. And if you're going to be my fifth or sixth D, or if you're going to be my third or fourth line, that's a minimum. You got to play that. You know, I can take from, you know, Marner and Willie and other guys,

they can get a little more slack or whatever you want to call it. I mean, you're not going to be able to cheat. But, I mean, you guys got to do that. That's a style that I insist you play. Yeah, I think Derek does have yesterday's clip on Lilligren because it is funny to hear him say that about Timmons. And now let's hear the Lilligren one. He has ability, right?

Skating, moving the puck and things like that. And he's, you know, he should be a good puck mover. And it's just about him managing his game and managing his puck movement and making good decisions with it, not risky ones, and simple. Just simplify. And then you've got to win your battles, right? As a defenseman, it's important that you're defending well and you're strong on your net front and you're winning those board battles and corner battles and things like that that's he's got to he's got

to do that and if you're yanni hockenpah hearing bruby talk about what you want from your 6d you're just like oh yeah let me in yeah i'm your guy yeah we'll see if his knees will allow him to get in yeah i just you know i think kipper said it yesterday. If you're playing Benoit and Hawk and Paw as your bottom pair, you need somebody to snap it out of there and break it out a bit. But maybe not those two guys. Maybe they're more for penalty killing or whatever. But those two together. I want to see Hawk and Paw.

For sure. But. He also keeps going, yeah, if he gets 25, 30 games, that'd be good. Well, when does that start? When do we start talking about him? Well, he's still in the LCR, right? Yeah, he mean they signed him in like july wow well for the first time the first time i was gonna say the first time for two years and then in the at the start of training camp it was for one year and we had an orthopedic surgeon come on and say all it is is pain

management so when like it's not growing cartilage between the knees so yeah well i don't know about what injury well again i don't know about injuries like no like just we talk about joe wall or anybody and how uh a player so so what the orthopedic guy is saying that he that's always the thing when someone says you can't do any structural damage to it correct like you just got pain you got to play through the pain and um so are we are we saying he can't play through the pain is that is that well the implication is how much pain can he handle was that's how many games he'll play was the implication from jason smith yeah dr jason smith so and he's i mean he's skating now right so like he's on the ice at practice so i mean

so is doer so maybe 10 games or maybe like, was it 7 games or 10 games until he can play? 10 games. I think it's 10. When they go on LTIR, I think it's 10 games. So, yeah, it'll still be a little while before they're eligible to come off. And regardless, I'm not going to get way ahead, but everyone does to the trade deadline.

Yeah. But they're going to have to add a Joel Edmondson, again, as a minimum. You're going to have to add a depth to you. I mean, that's just kind of understanding, looking at that. And that's not a ridiculous price. And Luke Shen, I mean, those were two really good examples the last couple of years about picking that up. So anyway, the Leaf D still has that look that, okay,

we need one more chip and we need guys to stay healthy. Yeah. It feels like it's there for Lilligren or Timmons, but I don't think that's the fit peruby wants he could probably use a center too yeah some point here that would be decent yeah um you want to do the uh tavarez line or rampy reeves well we can talk a little bit about rempe reeves but somebody asked berube about it today and just like it was the circus coming to town last year the reporters said the circus coming to town last year. The reporter said the circus coming to town last year with Rempe coming in.

It was. Rempe, he was in the thick of everything. Yeah, and what basically Berube thought the role of fighting was these days. And he answered the question there, so play that clip, Derek. You go out and play the game. You're that type of player, Ryan Reeves type of player. You're physical. You're doing your job.

You're mixing it up, banging bodies hard in front of the nets. Sometimes things happen. And guys like Ryan Reeves and Rempe who play that way and they're physical on the forward check and they're going to take the body. Sometimes the other guys take reaction to it and they're willing to drop their gloves and fight. I mean, that's really what it boils down to. I mean, there's other guys that, you know, they play the game hard,

but they're not willing to do that side of things, and that's where I think fighting is. I mean, you go out and play hard and physical, and sometimes things happen, and their gloves come off. There's one guy that knows what he's talking about when it comes to that. You i think he's up there getting close rempays played one game so far this year and it was played for 340 like is that the best thing for his development yeah no i'm i'm baffled because they put him in the spotlight last year yeah and he was really effective i mean he's kind of he got temporally chainted with not with the with the

wave and not fighting that one particular time but uh but i thought man he came up with big goals big plays and and man that was a cheap shot in labushkin last year oh yeah i mean that was a cheap shot you know any any hurt labushkin in that game against the maple leaf so the only i will say about uh the the fighting part and you noticed it with the Couturier hit on Stuart Skinner, is like, and I think it's different in 2024, that all that's fine, but you also have to be aware of the score. So like Sean Couturier, don't poke the bear. Edmonton's done.

And you gave them, they're dying for that. You poke the bear, so there's a fight, and then Corey Perry starts a second fight, and you come back, and that's just the one. You inject emotion into the game. Yeah, so that's just a, and then Corey Perry starts a second fight, and, you know, you come back. And that's just the one. You inject emotion into the game. So that's just a little bit whether you're Rempe or whether you're Ryan Reeves. You know, and Reeves, I mean, go play your game.

And see, early in the game you can do that because generally if it's your first shift, okay, it's 0-0, and you get out of the way. Other times, if you're trying to make an impression, well, understand the score and understand the momentum and keep that as a factor i'll say rempy last year though he was across the line like he was violent for yeah a while there a couple of devil's hits on guys who he seriously injured did he get suspended at least once like there was a lot of hits where it's like he's playing seven minutes a game and every night there's a highlight of should he get suspended or not.

Yeah. I don't know how you help him find the line by playing three minutes and 50 seconds on the season. 340 on the season, yep. 340 on the season. Like, is it so bad for him to play for the Hartford Wolfpack and play 60 games, then 22 years old he's ready? Well, it's going to be a great question for Dave Maloney.

He's going to join us later because that's the question. Okay, like he's a throwback to an old era. Yes. And everyone said he's going to be a great question for Dave Maloney. He's going to join us later because that's the question. Okay? Like, he's a throwback to an old era. Yes. And everyone said he's going to have to adapt or he ain't going to survive. But he continued to more than survive. He continued to thrive. So what's gone on this year within the sanctum, we don't know, the dressing room or whatever, that they've decided where last year

they threw him out for the outdoor game. They threw him out in high-profile situations that he's not playing now. So I'm curious what gives because last year showed that he's a raw material, but the way he played last year, there was a role for him in the NHL. He's also now 6'9", so he's got to figure out how to coordinate those limbs because that's like NBA almost center. He should play goal. He played a bunch of playoff games too for that.

No, totally. That's what I mean, Sam. That's when I kept thinking last year, okay, it's going to end. And no, he would be out there. And more often than not, he got a – like one, he got a – it wasn't a goal, but he interfered to create a goal. Yeah, I remember it. Just a lot of different things.

The fourth line wing, they have Adam Edstrom and Johnny Brodzinski. Yeah. Which, by the way, what a hot handle. That's a great, yeah. Johnny Brodzinski. Hell of a, hell of a handle. But he took the league by storm. Like, we're not.

Totally. More than any player has in years. Like, people were talking about him. For that kind of role. Yeah. They're chanting his name at Madison Square Garden. It's crazy. Anyways, speaking of which,

we'll probably take a break for Dave. Okay. We have Dave Maloney from the MSG Network after this, former Rangers defenseman. We will talk to him about Saturday Night, Rempe, Shusterkin, and much more. Join us after the break. Hey, it's Matt Marchese.

And I'm Mike Futa. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world weekdays at noon. It's the Fan Hockey Show on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born, joined by Gord Stelic today, which is a lovely change of pace. Not that, you know, we don't love our Kipper and Born, joined by Gord Stelic today, which is a lovely change of pace.

Not that we don't love our Kipper Friday, but Gord, nice to have you. Yeah, different show. A different show. Kipper's doing like Johnny Carson and David Letterman now, like four days a week or something. Is that the deal? When you get really big? He's negotiated a shortened work week.

Shortly, we'll be joined by Dave Maloney from Madison Square Garden, or MSG Networks. I'm evolving. To talk about the Rangers playing the Toronto Maple Leafs Saturday night. And the Rangers look like maybe the only team in the league that are as good as the Leafs so far. They're off to a really good start court. Yeah, they are.

And you're right. As far as the creme of the Eastern Conference, it's interesting because there's been a lot of shifting with the Atlantic Division teams trying to stay up there, stay afloat. And then in the Metropolitan, with Carolina looking to go down, really the Rangers are the only team from there that people think is the kind of cinch to, for sure, be in the playoffs and make that run to get where they want to get

and where the Leafs want to get. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I was talking to someone this morning who was saying that this Rangers team should win a cup and it's you know it's interesting last year they win the president's trophy they have arguably the best goalie in the league you know maybe like Hellebuck maybe like Swayman but he's one of those guys do you think that guys like Panarin and Zibanejad and Kreider, older guys like that have what it takes because they've kind of had the Leaf issue

where Panarin has not been amazing in the postseason. Well, no, you're right. Real good comparable. Real good comparable. And it's been longer for the Leafs because the Rangers, well, maybe not. I don't know who the first was to send the letter to the fans, but the Rangers did that years ago

and actually caught a lot of the players by surprise. It was around the trade deadline about doing the rebuild the retool and they never drafted in the top three not all the players knew but well no because yeah we were talking to one trend one of them on the air they weren't that thrilled but then they they ever drafted in the top three and they get and they get lafreniere number one overall they get capo capo number two overall and uh yeah now you got the expectations. And interesting. 2018, February 8th. That was the letter.

That was the letter. February 8th. And then they win the President's Trophy five years later. Yeah. Was it a letter or email? I wonder if you actually send a letter now. It was a media release. Okay. Yeah.

I'll save you guys me trying to read it. Yeah. Because it's never pretty when I try to read something. But, you know, that back end, Kay Andre Miller, Adam Fox, Braden Schneider, Jacob Truba, pretty solid. I mean, third pair, not sure about Zach Jones or Victor Mancini.

But either way, this is a pretty loaded team. So the Leafs right now have one, have a pretty solid lineup all throughout. We have a pretty good idea of where people are. One of the things that has been in question is Tavares as a second- center or third line center i think uh why don't we listen to craig barubi clip five here get his take on the one line that's been a bit of a bugaboo here the holmberg tavarez robertson line clip five please well i know it was tough game uh johnny t

with you know being sick and not skating much but you know that line's got some speed for sure on the wings. You've got Holmberg, who's a versatile center wing, either position, so you've got really two face-off guys in that line. You've got two guys that are really good down in their own zone defensively. It's a good makeup of the line. I think that we haven't gotten the real makeup yet with Johnny being sick. And, you know, Robbie's a worker. Robbie's got speed and he works. And Holmberg's a solid two-way player.

You know, and Homer and I have talked. He's got to be better, too. I think that he had a real good camp, and he's not happy with his last two games, and he'll be better. The Holmberg thing is interesting to me because he hasn't been very good. No, and what I found was, and I know you had Brad Treleaven. When Brad Treleaven did the car wash, right, he was on here, too, right? I don't know.

Okay, well, anyway. We don't get anyone. Well, anyway, he was doing the car wash where he did a lot of things, except you guys. Yeah, yeah. He was on here too, right? I don't know. We don't get anyone. Anyway, he was doing the car wash where he did a lot of things, except you guys. Yeah, yeah. He turned his back on real people. So you talked about Nick Robertson. You asked about Pacioretty and that.

He brought up Pontus Holmberg, which is interesting because if somebody brings it up, a coach or a general manager, that's a good sign. And boy, that first period against Pittsburgh, he couldn't, you know, he's got a chance. John Tavares out. Oh, geez. Pontus Holmberg instead of Max Domi, you know, being moved up. And first of all, he didn't shoot when he could.

Like he had a myriad of things went awry in 20 minutes. He couldn't have had a worse 20 minutes. He almost fell over on the penalty kill and he was spinning in a circle. Well, that one, he just flat out forgot what he was supposed to do. Like he forgot the penalty kill. That was the in a circle well that one yeah he just flat out yeah forgot what he's supposed to do like he forgot the penalty because that was the most glaring one and i i'm not just he was noticed for all the wrong reasons and then domey comes out now if jenny mull can make it a terrible line change was a big reason they had the two and a half hours to zero breakaway but

max domey happens to get the first first shift with that line it sets up willie kneelander and then you're off to the races. That changes things around, and Pontus Holmberg's time on that second line is over. And good call by Craig Berube. Good call by the coaching staff about being a bench coach and deploying players, because that's a huge, huge part of coaching still. It's funny. I tend to think of guys like Pontus Holmberg

as the very definition of interchangeable. He's fine. He can play wing, he can play center, but he's not the fastest or the biggest or the best shot or anything. He's just a fine player. However, he is strong enough to be effective if he'll play the way. I think Ruby is going to make a hockey player out of this guy in terms of two-way.

He said he had two face-off guys on that line. So win face-offs guys on that line so win face-offs kill penalties be sort of a guy that then they can say hey is david camp expendable now you know like can we maybe spend 800 instead of 2.4 for the guy who kills penalties and wins face-offs and that changes the dynamic your team a little bit when you could free up some money heading towards the trade deadline. Well, I think he's, we said, like Timothy Lilligren, he's kind of saying, you don't play my style, you know,

and whoever's going to play that has got to play my style, fifth and sixth D, okay? I think he, and the fact Trillium mentioned Holmberg means they've talked in that context, like you said, Justin, and meaning about, I believe this guy can play this way. I like this guy. He's got to play a certain way certain way though he's got to just play the brood whatever it may be emin mcmahon and yeah and that and that's going to be the uh difference mayor if we do it so he got a chance to you know go in as you say the deep end of the pool you know you got

with the cool kids and uh and maybe maybe he didn't play his guy i don't know what it was because he really did look out of sorts in just a short period of time. But obviously they believe in him. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. One thing I do believe that Berube is going to be able to help McMahon and help Holmberg take advantage of those tools, the strength, the size,

the skating, all that stuff. Robertson's a curious one to me because it's tough for me to believe that a Berube-style game is going to help him that he become more of a straight line get it in like i don't think that you got to be special when you're 5 10 or whatever robertson yeah you know you got to be a special player and you need to have some lateral movement and vision and a shot and all that stuff it hasn't looked like it did in the preseason in the preseason he was the leafs, arguably. And he is working and he's carrying the puck. He looks better.

He looks more dynamic than he ever has in his previous seasons with the Leafs. But how long can it look like this, where he's just better and he's dynamic and he's carrying the puck, or does he have to score? Or it's just not going to work here? Well, when you're having team success,

you can carry on the ride. I mean, there's no crisis. Totally agree. It's not even about him, right on the ride i mean there's there's no totally agree it's not even about him right it's about the group there's no crisis i mean it's a crisis for him because if he's a healthy scratch or any other player and how they fit in and they can talk team all you want but you you watch your ice time and you watch all those other things and especially when he's on a one-year contract looking for another one next year right but i think like in craig like craig Craig Berube and part of any coach is you have a certain style, but you also have to understand

players play differently, and you've got to find a way for them to get the most out of a player. I think that's where Nick Robertson, like you alluded to, Justin, about, yeah, he's, like, he's not afraid of the, but he's not going to intimidate you physically. He's not the guy, like, he's going to do, it's going to be speed and other things and hopefully get some goals and, you know you physically. He's not the guy. He's going to be speed and other things and hopefully get some goals. And be that Nick Paul in the playoffs. Somebody be the Nick Paul.

It didn't have to be Kucherov or Braden Point for Tampa Bay. Someone be like Gary Volk did years ago, get a big goal for Toronto in the playoffs. Anybody. And he's the one guy that possibly could do that. So I think there's an understanding that it's a different kind of style of play and yeah i get it's early but you're right i'd like to see i i'm i pull for him all the time i look how he battled through injuries and everything and you know the sacrifice he made to stay here to rehab that year and then got hurt again and you know it's let's we're talking like joe wall almost about his propensity in the past to get hurt so we'll see in the last couple games like he's getting

playing time like he played 14 against the pittsburgh penguins 14 39 against the kings like that's up he's been pretty fine yeah just without the production it just it looks like a different human than it did in the preseason yeah where he was just undeniably great shooting everything in the net the puck was fine i'm in the sweet spot i just you know i think it's good that they have the competition at the bottom of the lineup here now because you know a guy who scored 330 goals in the nhl and patch ready is missed a game against the kings and is on the outside looking in again here when they're practicing before the game tomorrow yeah like this is what they've talked about from the start with there being competition and there being options and i think they tried it in the key fair and they tried to say that,

but I don't actually think it. There was never any competition. Like you kind of knew. You're like, you got to get him in. Yeah. No, they like to lie.

There's not enough seats. It's like an airplane and people are on standby. Like there's the forwards and not enough seats. And I guess since Austin Matthews finally scored a goal, we got to worry about other people now. They all, they all went under that when Austin hadn't scored. Everyone else was secondary. I will confidently say that the game against Pittsburgh

where he didn't score was the best game he's ever played where he didn't score a goal. Yeah. He was unbelievable in that game. He didn't score a goal. But I do want then to kind of take this moment, and this is not a knock on my pal that i usually host with but he he is not always the most positive oh i was supposed to give fans this like big dose of leafs positivity

but we have our guest so it'll never happen we are now joined by dave maloney of msg network uh former rangers defenseman dave how are you thanks for for joining us. I'm doing well, actually. I parked out underneath the, what is this, the lakeshore? We're underneath there? Yeah. Anyway, it's a beautiful day here in Toronto. I'm here with my brother and sister-in-law and my niece. We're just kind of wandering around. How are you guys doing?

We're good. We're good. Good to catch up with you, Dave. We're trying to get the mystery of, okay, Matt Rempe, the guy that they played in high-profile spots all last year, appeared to play well and now isn't playing. So because they're wanting Ryan Reeves, Matt Rempe, then you go, geez, Matt Rempe hasn't played very much. And what's the reason as far as you see it?

Well, there's a couple of things. I mean, the myth was bigger than, you know, fact. Last year he exploded on the scene. And really, he didn't play a lot. I mean, there were an awful lot of things to be excited about. He's an interesting character. He's a big man. You know, obviously the physical stuff he got involved in right away.

And he became a cult figure way, way, way ahead of his time. Now, he worked his behind off in the summer. And I thought he had a pretty good camp. And, but again, Peter Laviolette, you know, it's like a lot of teams carrying the extra forward. Does he deserve to be in the lineup? Could he be in the, yes. But Laviolette has really always liked Johnny Brzezinski, and Brzezinski brings a little more speed, a little more, you know,

just kind of tenacious kind of presence. But that shouldn't be anything to take away from what Rampey hasn't done. You know, I just think it's a fact that – and the other guy, Edstrom, has come in, and Edstrom's just a little smoother, a little better offensive player, a little stronger on his feet. You know, he's a big, strong, you know, he's got some offensive savvy to him. So, again, you know, Larry Brooks is a post, and there are people that would agree that, you know, the impact of a guy like Rempe is going to become springtime,

but you've got to somehow, if he's in your plans, you've got to figure out a way to get him minutes. That was my kind of observation over the summertime, was if indeed he was going to be part of it, you've got to figure out a way to get him minutes. And not being in the lineup doesn't help his development that way. No, certainly not. But, you know, that is a very good hockey team,

New York Rangers hockey team, that you been uh covering for a while here and so knowing they're playing the leafs on saturday night i wonder if you could give us just a quick summation of their uh regular season to date what uh what have you seen out of this rangers team to to start the season well the thing that's most impressive to me is this team is deep. You know, they have 12 forwards. And both the opening game and last night in Detroit, now they stake themselves to a lead with their, you know, their top guys. The starting goal was Shusterkin in Pittsburgh, and he holds the fort. Last night, they take a couple of penalties early.

Quick makes the saves he has to make. They score, and then their depth is allowed to play. And that's, you know, and it's funny, we talked to Rempe. You know, the game he played against was Utah. They were chasing the score. He couldn't get the lineup. But when this team is cooking on all cylinders, they are deep. They are deep in the right positions, starting with Gould.

The difference may very well be, to me, over the long run is going to be Hedl, Kako, and Cooley. You're getting into now seven, eight, and nine in your lineup that can threaten you offensively, and you're not giving up an awful lot. So I just think, again, this is my 20th season doing this, and honestly, I think this is a really good team. And they're deep. And it might be the deepest team that I've seen over the time that I've been doing it. So, Dave, what do Ranger fans say comparable to Leaf fans about the years of lack of playoff success?

Like, the Leaf recipes have been the same. They basically lose the deciding game. I know they got eliminated by Florida in five games a couple of years ago, but they lose the game seven. The big guns that score so plentifully in the regular season don't, like they didn't get more than two goals per game in the seven against Boston last year. So how do you quantify

what the fans are saying in New York now about, okay, we really like our team, but this is what's pissed us off in the playoffs year after year, and this is what needs to change. Well, I'm not sure that it's what the fans say. From my observation, I think at the end of the day, you need to have a couple of top six guys

that are going to choose somebody's arm off to make a play. And that intangible is really hard to find. You know, when you look at Bennett, you look at Kachuk and the whole attitude that Florida comes with. So you can say, like, the Rangers top six, listen, you get to game five or whatever it was last year against Florida, but at the end of the day, it's just do you have that intangible with the guys that are going to be playing 19 minutes, 22 minutes?

It's one thing to say, okay, we'll bring in Ryan Reeves, we'll bring in Matt Rempe, we'll bring in these guys, but they're going to play. If they're playing at that time of the year, they're going to play six minutes. I just think you need every team. You go back to 94 of the Rangers, you had Mark Messier, right? You had Adam Graves. Guys that when push comes to shove, you know,

you look at those great devil teams. The top, your top players, I think. And that's why it's so hard to win with everything else being equal. To me, those teams that eventually prevail have some snarl with the guys that are going to command most of the ice time. Well, and Dave, to me, like you're talking about Nathan McKinnon does that for Colorado, Mark Stone does it for Vegas. Like these are recent champions, and you do see that.

So go ahead. And how about Sid? How about Sid? Yeah. I would see your arm off. You know, you know, how about,

uh, how about the guys that when it comes down to it, and that's an intangible, that's hard to find. And the teams that seem to find it with their top players lots of times, to me, end up at least competing if not winning the finals. Well, and so we're kind of talking about Artemi Panarin here.

He is first in the NHL in scoring right now, 11 points, five goals and six assists in four games played. I mean, exceptional start for him. But, you know, it's sort of the same conversation we have here in Toronto when, you know, Mitch Marner or Nylander or Matthews, they're not that guy either who are going to chew your arm off necessarily. So, you know, is it a matter of filling in around those guys or does it got to come from within a guy like Panarin or Zibanejad

or whoever it may be? Lafreniere has some of that, doesn't he? Yeah, he does. He really does. And, you know, he's young. He's got a bit of a snarl. Listen, and I say, if it was that easy to find, every team would have it in their top players.

You know, it's just an intangible. You can't say, oh, okay, I'm going to go out. And really, it's not to discredit to any of those top players. That's just not in their makeup. Now, the other side of that, from a Rangers standpoint, the Rangers don't get to the success they've had in postseason without Artemi Panarin's regular season. Right.

And it's the same with Lundqvist. The knock against Lundqvist was, well, he hasn't won a cup. Well, let me tell you something. They have no shot without Lundquist during the regular season. So it's just, like I say, it's just not that easy to say, okay, we've got, you know, it's funny. I was talking to a couple of guys who have won cups. Really, what does it take?

There's just so many things that have to fall into place, let alone do you have that last intangible that is virtually impossible to find. So to me, it's not a criticism of any of the elite players. It's just a bit of, I think, a reality that one should consider when you're looking at that final thing that might be missing and i've seen that with the ranger team absolutely well uh dave we appreciate your time joining us on the show today uh enjoy the game tonight and have a great call all right thanks guys appreciate it no problem thank you that's dave maloney of msg network former new york rangers defenseman and

the youngest ever ranger to wear the C. Yeah, well, and I'm older, so I remember him wearing the C, I believe, for the Kitchener Rangers. Is that right? Oh, yeah, yeah. He was on the Kitchener Rangers, yes. Ranger for life. The Ranger for life.

It seemed like the old sponsorship days, but no. And he's been doing it a long time, and solid, solid D back in the John Davidson era and others they played. You know, it's funny. The other comparable is Rangers Leafs. There's so many comparables. The one was being asked about the Mitch Marner contract that he wants to park. So Igor Shosturkin said, you know what?

I'm in the same situation. Let's talk about me. Yeah. So all of a sudden, Igor Shosturkin now, the last 10 days about, you know, turning down $11 million a year, apparently, has become a much more hot-button topic than anything about Mitch Marner's contract

status. Yeah, well either way, a lot of superstars in town. It's going to be a great game. Two of the best teams of the year so far, Saturday night. Join us then. We'll be back after this. We're going to talk with Luke Gastic about the Edmonton Oilers and the rest of the teams in Canada. We will be back after this break. We'll see you next time.