Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Pouncing on the Panthers + Willy 'Ewing Theory'

Episode Date: January 7, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' 4-1 win over the Florida Panthers. They discuss the significance of the win, the Leafs' ability to match Florida's physicality, Auston Matthews finding his rhythm offensively, Bobby McMann's fit on the top line, and Matthew Knies showcasing his potential as a power forward. Then, the guys debate why the Leafs have played better without William Nylander in the lineup. Later, they weigh in on whether Nick Robertson has played his way off the trade market, the Leafs as a potential landing spot for Jason Robertson, and Eetu Luostarinen's dangerous hit on Scott Laughton. Finally, they dip into McKee's Midweek Mailbag to answer your questions!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right back at you. It's the Real Kipper and Born show. Jake Schultz, Derek Brandeo, yours truly, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, and the latest addition to The Real Kipper and Born show, assistant producer,

Ethan ja ja ja go boar oh my god you kill me man you kill me yeah we are live on sportsnet 360 sports net 590

the fan in Toronto and streaming always on sportsnet plus also at your convenience Spotify, Apple podcast and YouTube feeling a little good today are yeah that's

I brought the the ja and ja ja ja ja yeah a little extra a little extra oomph how many times have we heard the word umph in like the last three days I don't know but it was a lot there was a lot of umph last night for the Toronto my place thing on Monday was oomph no way yes it was in the New York Times it so I picked it out

you still do whirdle what's that you still do world I do my parents oh my god my parents like I'm on a 100 days streak of my co-cares stork I did I keep it myself I don't involve you in it I had two guesses, two days in a row. You did? Yes. Have you ever hit two?

Red Hot one time very recently. And actually, our producer, Matt Marstrom, said a word you guys used a lot in the show was the word on Monday. And so I, I one shot of that one, I guess. I picked it up off of Chris Cuthbert, who said it Saturday night. It was around Austin Matthews. And, umph is a different word, not often used. And it's sticking right now. these days. It's sticking right now. Austin Matthews again stays hot as the Maple Leafs defeat the

Florida Panthers to push their point streak to seven. Not bad. Not bad. I mean, things are getting fun here. So let me just revisit our feel going into the game and Sammy yours, spitey senses weren't great yesterday. Way off. Way off. I got to tell you, that was one of the more stunning results I can remember. So that was kind of like the fork in the road we had last night was and you said it I think best that we need

either them to like completely get blown out or a convincing win but we don't need something that just keeps us in the middle. And this we got it. This is like a team that you can see what they're supposed to do right now

and you can see what it looks like when it's going well. Skating well forechecking, physical, moving the puck. So is it safe to say if we did get the blowout that didn't favor the Leafs, we'd be talking today about like selling off, blowing, like going the other way? I wrote an article today on Sports said about how the early movers, the early teams who say, we know we're not winning a cup and we're going to sell, are going to beat this rush of 20 teams who are going to be sellers in a month,

and they're going to do best. And I certainly would have had the Leafs. A loss last night would have had them several points out. Games you play, it just, it would have looked really ugly this morning. And, I mean, it doesn't look ugly. I think there's ways that you could have won that game. Like you said, if it was a 4-3 game, they win in overtime. And, you know, Wall keeps a minute for long stretches.

And it's kind of a fluky win. You could come in here and be like, ah, but for them to like out Panthers the Panthers on a big night, it's just like. Twice this year, the Panthers just kind of went quietly into the night. So does that play into anything at all because we know how crazy the standings are and we know at times some certain teams, including the Panthers, could look every bit the Stanley Cup champion that they are and have been for the last two years. And then there's also nights we go, oh my God, they're awful, they're awful.

And does that kind of slow down, you know, that feel of like you didn't get the best Panthers? last night they were quiet why were they quiet where was sam bennett where was uh ryanhart where were like do we do every time you play good though the other team's not going to like if you play good and they put them in a body bag last night they're physical yeah yeah i sure you can say florida i expect more out of you and i think their coach did and i believe we have that quote as well um do you want to start with paul maurice and his taking what the panthers had to offer no you don't we're not doing this today we're not doing the panthers sucked last night thing like that's no no no we're not kippers alluding to the panthers suck

last night and like i will come in here and fully admit when teams stink and the panthers came out they were they were they were they were a team that got shut down that's what they got the panthers came out and for the first two full minutes of that game i was sitting there on my couch being like oh my god my i'm right they're going to lose five one they're not going to touch the puck and the game i didn't get that for the first i got that maybe like for a short period of time i was going to say the first three or four shifts of the game they took it to the least physically was in the zone they would look like a better team but i'm not going to sit here and be like the season's fixed they're making the playoffs playing the parade but i'm not going to let you

be like ah the panthers stunk that's why the leaps lost i'm not i'm not i'm just throwing it out there i'm not suggesting that that that's the case but i've seen we've seen the panthers better we've seen them play harder. Yeah, definitely. For sure. For sure. Let's listen to Craig. There.

We'll start on a positive for you, Sammy. With his overview of the game, Klipler. Good team effort. You know, like everybody had a part of it tonight. Carlo, great having him back tonight. I thought he played well. I've been out for a long time. But I thought he really did a good job there tonight.

But, yeah, all around, good team effort. Like, penalty kill had to do a good job, especially early in the third with the penalty start in the period and then right after again. So getting those kills was big. Yeah, the penalty kills has been unbelievable. And it's still, the storyline is a little underwhelming because it was buried over a poor power play

for pretty much the whole season. Yeah. And the one thing that we were aware on our telecast last night is those third periods and especially coming off a really bad third period against the New York Island. And I'm not to suggest that you go out there and get a penalty right away on purpose, but it didn't actually hurt that you started the four out of five minutes short-handed to one of your strengths right now.

And it's almost like, you know, you got to dump it down the, all the way down the ice. You didn't have to make any plays. You could keep it simple like it. I see your point that the way the game sort of shook out might have helped them because they're very good at killing penalties. Did you know where they rank in the league? I think fourth or third. Third.

They moved to third. Behind Colorado and Buffalo, the third best penalty kill in the league. I mean, shout out Scott Lotton. Steve Lorenzky gets some credit for that too, but Troy Stetcher, since he came here, has been, they're too. If you lead them a nice time again last night, sure did.

The Panthers power play on the road is 30th. Is that right? I think I saw that last night. Yeah, well, they didn't get a sniff last night, really. Stetcher 24-09 last night. But yeah, Carlo, plus two with Morgan Riley. Give him credit. Their pair was good.

I would say, I'd like to know if you're talking about the penalty kill here too. I'd like to know what Joseph Wall's short-handed save percentages. Yes. Because it feels like he's been really, really good on the penalty kill for them. I came across that today, and he has been. Yeah, I'll find that very quickly. Just anecdotally. Has to be your best penalty killer.

Yeah, it's true. It's true. But no, he's been really good on the penalty kill, too. Yes. Can we just sneak in a Paul Maurice overview of the game? We absolutely can. You know, I only cut Paul Maurice clips when he's sour. I don't cut the happy ones.

But let's play Paul Maurice's overview of the game. Well, there's a good question. We started slow and falling away to get slower. And then, I don't know that we could write it, but you're down in three at that point. The risk profiles of both teams changed. I didn't like our game tonight at all. Did you like anything about the push there at the end?

Oh, really. I like Mackie Samis Gavis. I thought they'd be played hard. I thought the Cunning line played very hard. And I thought Sergey was good. especially in the first two periods. So those guys get the past, the rest of us. Coach included, can't be too proud of our game tonight.

Sounds like Kronk from Emperor's Newgru. Not really. Not really. That's great. Started slow and got slower. I mean, the physical play was the most shocking part. Yep. And you didn't think it was there as much, but you thought after the fight it kind of woke up?

Yeah, I did. Yeah, I thought it went to another level there. and Elliot spoke of the history between Max Domi and Eckblad that goes that dates back to his Montreal Canadiens days when he caught him with a good one. I forgot about that. Yeah. And then I saw a vote around on Twitter of you talking about it on our like one of our old morning shows and I saw the video of it.

It was a bad song. Yeah. It was a bad thing. Well, Ekblad looked like, you know, Domi gave him a little pop there. I forget how five, six minutes left in the first. Yeah. And then Ekbad turned around and was like kind of, it all. you could see him processed and it was like domy let's do it yeah yeah when for the we're fighting

whether you and then nick waw got into it then bobby mcmand got into it uh simone benwaugh got into it it just it rise the temperature a little bit for me for the leaves especially and i don't know for whatever reason florida never never got there like sometimes i sit there and go how can you guys be so mad at Tampa Bay and then not kind of but it's it's for sure and that's that's that's a valid point and one that kind of you still have to be reminded that three Stanley Cup finals and the amount of games you know what nobody's really done and I wanted to do it last night but it's just there was no time and it's at the end of the day it's a Florida story and not a leaf story is the amount of games that Bobrowski has played over the last

three years, which is equivalent to another season for any other goalie. Yeah, he was, I thought he was excellent last night. Yeah, he was really. Yeah, but I'm saying that he's probably, he's probably averaged 75 games a season in the last three. With the playoffs. Yeah. Right. Calculate the playoffs in the regular season.

Josh, yeah, get on it, buddy. And then, and then tell me that goalies need, um, load management. load management days. Like, convince me. I mean, there's, there's, no, he's a freak of nature. There's a freak of nature. He's a freak.

Yeah. There's no question. He's just built differently from the mind to the body. His, his ability to recoup, reset is probably, we'll go down as maybe

one of the best in history. I mean, is 885, save percentage, or goals again, or, you know, save percentage isn't great this year. It won't go down in history.

He was good last night. Austin Matthews could have had another six goals last night. Honest to God. I mean, the amount of touches, he's getting those dangerous areas. Bob shut him down, fortunately, for Florida. But, yeah, he had a lot more touches. Do you want to just stay with a theme about playing the physical game? Can I just say a quick Matthews thing that you said there

and something that we never said at all this year until this last stretch is he could have had X. Yes. He could have had a sign. He could have had X because. when at the start of the year it's like he couldn't have had one no he couldn't have had a half of one like it just it changed so quick there was stretches during this season when he he couldn't in three games have the looks that he had last night right he has 29 shots in his last five games boys yeah six a game there is a misconception that like elite scorers

score on all these opportunities elite scorers get a pile of scoring chances yeah that's how you score more you know some of them have slightly higher shooting percentages but mostly it's volume based and he is getting the volume super encouraging for the Leafs do you want to get a thought from Matthews on how he feels did you want to continue with the physical stuff or go talk about we'll do Matthews and then we'll go physical yeah yeah yeah play Matthews clip on on the team yeah I think we've definitely found our rhythm I mean I feel like a broken record but I mean a couple weeks ago I thought we played two really good road games in Nashville and Dallas. We didn't, you know, we didn't come out with it with wins or points,

but I thought we were moving in the right direction. And then, you know, we closed it out at home against Pitt. And then after the break, I just felt like, you know, the momentum from those three games, regardless of, you know, not picking up points in all of them, you know, the rhythm that we were creating and generating was going in a really positive direction. I think we've just picked up from there. And it's been great. I mean, these games are important, especially against teams in your division. So we know how much these points mean each night. that's an uncommonly in-depth thoughtful response about where the team was

That's why I put it in there Because it's rare that it's one that I'm actually interested in Specifics about a game and Like remember when we When he came in here after that back-to-back Or maybe you were gone already But they played the Dallas And Nashville back-to-back

And he both games said Hey I think we look pretty good I think it pissed us all off big time He called back to that There's a change going on here Because again to your point about the thought-provoking answer there. There are times when you've watched him in an interview

and it's like, that guy can't wait to get out of that. Totally. Just rushing through it. Just whatever it takes. Say whatever you want. Just get out. And, I don't know, winning breeds, you know, feeling better for everybody, for sure. But it just seems like, yeah, he's, it's almost as if I think he got sick and tired of being sick and tired.

You know, it feels like something in his personal life changed, you know, like he had something pressing. that's cleared up or he just i mean puck started entering the net probably i mean i'm only saying this because of the timeline but like it does line up when they did make a change behind the bench i don't i can't possibly begin

to know any times it's just crazy they only have 14 of a possible 16 points since they fire i'm more more on course with what you're saying if it was a head coach i know an assistant coach i'm not saying that's why i'm just saying the timeline is exact you're right you're right but i i don't

I can't see an assistant coach ever having that type of effect on your best player. And it's not like the power play structure changed so greatly that he's getting all these power play goals and points or something where you thought it was tied to that. Yeah. Everything has been better. So the physical aspect of the game last night,

for me, Matthew Nyes for sure. But Bobby McMahon now to me is kind of, looking like he's... We're just playing. He's in a much better place. His ceiling is like NHL All-Star some nights.

Legitimate NHL All-Star some nights. And then he'll have a month stretch where he gets no points and doesn't hit anyone. But I don't think he's ever been as physical. No, this is the most physical he's been. So can I ask you two?

Yeah. Is it because of his role that he's more willing to do that because he's playing on the top line? Rewarding the coach? coaching staff saying if you put me here, I'll play like this. He's been emboldened by the coaching staff to play more physically. Like, does that matter?

I think a greater question is, when he's on the lower lines, is he pouting? I've just always thought he's good in the top six, bad, and the bottom six guy. Yeah. Playing with good players, he looks good. But he's got a unique set of skills, man. It's not very often you get a guy that big, that strong, that can skate like that. And shoot. And shoot the puck.

and what's he headed for, 25 goal season? Yeah, probably. I think he's, was that his 13th last night? 13th? The empty net? Can he get 25? Yeah, that's the exact pace. Could get, you know, if he gets hot,

if he stays where he is, he can hit. Yeah, he can hit 30. His current pace is 26 and 20 for 46 points. Yeah, 26 goal pace. So, and then, I don't know, maybe he's inspired by Matthew Nott. as well it's like he's not they're kind of similar big and skilled right yeah yeah i don't even

think matthew knives has that extra gear that macban has not speed wise but he doesn't also probably have as much power as matthew nize especially on that setup last night which was nice is crazy he's like a running back for me going up the middle and then breaking it i think it doesn't matthews call him the tight end or something yeah no no running back buddy not tight end running back all right can i ask you too again about Bobby McMahon. And maybe this isn't even asking. This is just telling from a Leaf fan's perspective. I've had to listen to Brad Marshan come in here and dunk all over Leaf fans and dunk on

the Leafs and make a cottage industry of like, look at me, like practicing his lines in the mirror before he comes here to make fun of all the Leaf fans. Seeing Bobby McMahon just take an absolutely greasy run at him and try to hurt him and knock him out of the game. It's like, yes. That's what we'll make you beloved by us. He just sold 100 McMahon jerseys. Somebody make it look like they're sick

of this guy ragging on the franchise every chance he gets. And it was awesome. And I loved it. And it made me love him even more. It did. So, so there. Yeah, fair enough. I don't, uh, no, that's, uh, I thought we had a McMahon clip. No, McMahon clip. But let's listen to Barubi on playing the Panthers game

against them. Yes. Physical stuff. Collaborate on your earlier point. they're a team that likes to initiate hits and go to the net hard and it's almost like you were the guys that doing that we're initiating both those things tonight we talked about it this morning and before the game this game's played like in the corners winning those scrums and at the net like that's how they're going to play they're going to win the scrums in the corner they're going to get it up to their d and they're going to the net and we got to get into guys we got to have numbers around there blocks shots battle around the net and vice versa the other way we got to win the swarms in the offensive zone we've got to get the puck up top and we've got to win the races to the net and did a good job of it tonight that's the game against these guys shout out the legend's eyes for a good question there but i just they kind of they looked like yeah i just wish they would play like the panthers against the teams that aren't the panthers but it was nice to see them do

that well i can only imagine brad tree living watching this game up top and going and go, finally. We talked to her release talk last night. It's like you built your team to beat the Panthers and they beat the Panthers and you both might not be in the playoffs. Yeah. Well, you succeeded.

We didn't bank on them be the 10th best team in the conference. You're two at all against them. Good start. Yeah, that's a good point. Matthew Nyes. Yeah. Another day, him just kind of

showing what he can be. His ceiling is really fascinating. calm down when I say this, but like there is that like Lindrosian combination of size and skill. Not many people with hands that big and strong. All right. Let's get his thoughts on his game.

Matthew Nyes. To be honest with it, it's a hard thing to do for 82 games. They obviously try to work my tail off to do that. Sometimes it doesn't happen. And there's some unlucky balances when the game goes that way. But yeah, that's the kind of player. I want to be on it tailoring myself to being that kind of player.

And, yeah, so I take pride in trying to be that consistently. Yeah, there's sometimes you do watch him hold on to a puck, and it's like, you can't, no. No. Like Jerome McGinlow last night at times. Yeah, I actually used your line on the air last night. Oh, you did? Thanks, man. He had a royalty or anything?

No, no. That's just how this works. But he just looked really, really good. And what's interesting, too, is he's doing it away from Matthew. Has everyone, you know, they tied those two together for the whole. year you know one thing i mentioned last night that kind of has me interested is this is the best they've looked and they've had all three of their skills smaller guys in the lineup dishing the puck around cowan mitchellie domi all getting big opportunities you know nize is not with matthews it's

you know matthews driving his own line i don't know you've talked with them not passing the puck they're moving it pretty nice right now okay uh have you guys ever heard of the Ewing theory? Yes. Is this Patrick? Yeah, it is. Do you know what the Ewing theory is, Kipper? It's a Bill Simmons theory where basically

Patrick Ewing got hurt and the Knicks got way better and Patrick Ewing was their supposed best player, one of their best players. When's the Ewing theory committee start arriving for the William Neander conversations? No, absolutely not. You know why? Because where was the Ewing theory for Morgan Riley last year

and they're 7 and O? It's like, oh, they're better without him. Well, maybe, you know. I mean, they've been historically unbelievable without him. And then with Matthews out, too, it's been the same thing. It's like, oh, well, they're better. They have pretty good runs when they have to step up and fill shoes. There's a reason they can't do it for 82 games. Their teams would just build bad teams.

It just feels like it's never been more balanced than it feels right now. That all four lines are bold and it just really... You need skill to win this game. I understand. Deep down. Like, you can go through stretches like in January or February. You can go through areas where it kind of looks and feels good. But at some point, you're going to hit a brick wall

you just need talent to take over and most often than not it it just rises at the end i am i'm not i'm not totally off board on what you're saying if in fact that whatever the case is and i'm a big energy guy as well is the energy just better without him outside of the talent that he can bring this is the run guys out of town conversation where it's like what are we doing what are you doing what we're doing is watching him watching him next year with no skill the energy is great out there can you take willie out and bring in two or three other pieces in that may not hit his ceiling of talent but can hit other areas what is wrong what is wrong with having that conversation jb Hey, you can have the conversation and I can make my point that it's dumb. This is like free speech.

You can say dumb things and people get to say that you're dumb for saying them. You're allowed to have it. And I'm providing the other end. I do it every day. That's dumb. I do it every day. You know, and listen, I don't want to shout it down without, you know, any sort of logic or backing. And my logic and backing is just that they don't have enough skill and talent right now today with Matthews and Neelander in the lineup to hang with Colorado or Minnesota.

or Dallas, and I don't think the solution is getting two or three energy guys and William Miller. No, no, no. You get high-end talent back. Where, how? That's Brad Tree Living's job. That ain't mine. I hate to do that. Where I'm like, I'm in. I'm in if the thing you're saying can happen where everyone's like, we need a number one right D and people go, okay, who is that? How do we get there? I'm in on the theory

of two or three high-end energy guys, whatever. But I just don't, it's not an option. That's not an option. It's not on the menu. It's always an option, buddy. Always an option. Well, then, I'm willing to have that conversation. If you can put the names on the board. It's an option in the off season.

Yeah, you have to look. You have to look. And I will tell you. I'm not anti-trading kneelander entirely. Let me. It depends. I love that we're back here. I'm going to say something.

It's been a while since we've done this. Your job as a general manager, and they did this, I know, I know the Leafs, did this before before they signed Willie Nealander they shopped them. They shopped them. Okay? They shopped them. And they shopped

Marner's. They shopped Marner before his no move kicked in. And then they come back and they say, what's our best offer? And I think they had Marner for Petrangelo, the Vegas.

If those do that. I'm telling you. Okay. They had it. When? Before Marner's no move kicked in. Oh, hold on, hold on. Yeah.

Like when Dubis got fired? Yes, and Brad Tree Living came in. Okay. Oh. You sure about that? When you know something's about to happen, you need to go and weigh out all your options, including trading him.

Yeah, okay. And the best that they had was a Petro-Angelo for Marner, because Vegas has been on Marner for a few years now. They were sitting on that forever. Yeah. And it's like, we're not trading Marner for Petrangelo, who at that point, I believe, started having some health issues and was not the defenseman that he was in.

Maybe Toronto was a bit aware that this is a damage good. And they said, can't do it. Can't do it. Can't trade Marner for Petrangelo. And honestly, they come. kind of, you know, they would have got a year out of them or two, and it probably was the right move. A hundred percent the right move.

It's like the name is sexier than what you're at actually buying. So that's the way their business works is that they always look at options. And they're guys out there right now with no move clauses. Do you think that's keeping, do you think it's keeping Doug Armstrong from shopping Jordan Kairu right now? Kip, there's just no precedent for an NHL trade you're talking. about like with a guy like kneelander where you get back these two or three guys that make you better and the best guy goes out the door it won't keep you from at least making calls and having

those options and looking at things that's my whole point i had people should be looking at options for willie now let me yeah i had people send me stuff this past summer previous or previous to marner getting traded saying the logical guy to trade of nilander and marner is nilander he's the guy who is not the Barubi-style player. He's the guy who is not as defensively focused. You know, Marner's a better fit for... So, like, it's been a consideration for sure. The fact that now they're left with him in Austin,

I just think you can only pair this talent tree so far down. And I worry about now it's just Matthews and the couple of guys, you know, magic beans. Maybe they'll turn into. Yeah. I also think that we had a long conversation yesterday about how you get a one other thing after this about how you get a number one

defenseman and like oh hey can we say the thing that you had suggested to you yeah so me yeah we can do an early mailbag but my boy I think it's moche my boy texted me a guy that I was blown up trying to get ALCS tickets and now he texts me here and there about certain things but he said what about kneelander for

Adam Fox at a New York was just like he's disgruntled U.S. team disgruntled with his coach back on the long long-term. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the type of trade I would make.

Not that I would do it today necessarily, but I would consider that. There's your number one guy that improves Riley and who's not doing that, Leaves? I'm not doing that. Leaves. Yeah. If you're, if you're value me, you lander over a number one week.

No, I'm just saying that Adam Fox to me has dropped a lot substantially. Yeah. A few years ago. Pretty much ever since. I would have said, yes. I don't know. His game's falling off. Yeah.

He's not big. he's not physical he's like he's got little presence like he did a few years ago yeah that's not the guy yeah i want a stud back there for willie nielander you wouldn't do fox for nielander no how old's fox 27 you know norris trophy what's you got 30 points and 32 games this year i do i would do brandon uh uh montore for willie for willie and nick ritchie and alexiac no you wouldn't no you wouldn't no you wouldn't Yeah, I would. Again?

Jamie Alexiak and Brandon Montour? Yeah, no, no, no. No, no. I would. You're back on the hook. I would. Yeah, I would. I'd sure up the blue line.

I would take that blue line to the next level. Oh, you take it to the next level, all right. Submarine. Isn't he like 32? You get relegated. You win with that Montour. Okay? You win.

Oh, my God. They won't trade them. Seattle won't trade them. He's their heart and soul. You're validating an old debate. That's what you're doing right now. The Leaves may have won the cup if they would have moved Willie back then.

I think you're sure about that? I can't argue. They've never had a defenseman. No. They've never had a real true defenseman. I know. Adam Fox would be that. Anyway, this is not what we should have been talking about today.

It's fine. You started it. I know. I know I did it on purpose. That's what we're doing here. Anyways. You guys don't want to talk about Nick Robertson and the Law line? I thought they were great.

They were actually great. Nick Robertson is, has un... Buddy, you know what it started. Mind-blowingly become valuable. When he was nice to you. Last year, when Nick, you know, and I got together.

Yeah. That's when it all started. That's when his energy shifted. Yeah. It's, it, I cannot believe how strong he looks in physical confrontation at whatever he is,

five, ten, I don't know. But like, he is going at guys. You nailed it in the intermission. One of the intermissions, I'm not sure which one it was, but you said that we used to talk about what he did without the puck and how it was so lacking now it's like he's their most competitive guy he's

digging on every battle and i don't know if waws rubbing up rubbing off on him in terms of just like the defensive responsibility and playing with him and having that guy in his line but it just feels like he's i don't know he's really good and he's still an rFA somehow well it's crazy that he has asked for a trade they have tried to trade him everyone has wanted this relationship to end and all of a sudden it's like you got a pretty good thing here he's still an rfay he must have played his first game when he was 14 years old. They can't let him go now. You're not going to get anything near as valuable as Nick Robertson.

I don't know. What would you trade the least for right now to get him? I mean, if someone offered me a second rounder for Nick Robertson, I don't know. I kind of like having Nick Robertson. Hold on. Say that again? If someone offered a second rounder for Nick Robertson, I'd rather have Nick Robertson. But depends what you're trying to do.

Right. If they suck, I'm taking that and running. If you're in the playoff phase, you're not. If you claim you're rebuilding to aim towards the future, then you want young prospects, whatever. What's Nick? He's 24. You know, he's in the, he could be four years from now when you're better.

It'll be 28. That's okay. I don't know. It is, it's tricky because you can't trade him for a second rounder because it significantly weakens you now. And you're not ready to do that. So that's why Yeah

That's why it's a bit of a conundrum I'm so happy we brought back Montour for Willie is an unbelievable callback It's like a comedian who called back to the start of the set My gosh So happy we're back Oh yeah Did you

We'll do it on the other side Because I got a mailbag I got a mailbag question about it So we'll do it on the other side All right That was fun That was the best winner of the seasons. And we got really for Montere.

I love this show. I'm going to make them a leaf before this is over. You know that, right? Yeah, it'll be like, you know, end of career, 41-year-old Montour. Well, it would be like, and then we put him on the Mount Rushmore along with Thornton and Marlowe. That's Giordano. Lindrosse, Leach.

I love that, Claire. I love the guy. Housley, Ron Francis. So we keep going here. Keep going. All right. Sammy's mail bag. Whoa.

When we return to Real Kipper and Bourne. Everything you need to know about the Raptors and the biggest stories around the NBA. Smith and Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Real Kipper and Born show. edition hour neciprios justin born sammy mckee just released on sportsnet dot caa is my latest nchl buzz what some teams are weighing ahead of the trade deadline i wasn't sure when this was going to come out but sammy made it abundantly clear to me as he's getting pelted with jason

i just talk in my article that um we're going to delay the mailbag yeah can i read this excerpt of potentially the juiciest? Oh, please do. Okay, Toronto Maple Leafs is the title of these two juicy paragraphs. As you know, the lease are really limited with assets they have to pull off a big trade. Last year, Ethan Cowan was pushed as a trade chip in an effort to try to obtain Braden Schen, but Cowan's going to be hard to put in play again this season. However, depending on what the return is, we can't rule out the possibility.

One idea of floating around the league is a bigger swing involving Dallas, specifically, Jason Robertson. Contract talks there haven't been smooth where Robertson is believed to be looking at north of $12 million more than what Miko Ranton and God. That's not an easy number for the stars. Toronto could pay it and the question of the cost of the acquisition. Cowan, Ben Danford,

plus more, likely an off-season conversation rather than the deadline one. But that's the kind of move that would actually change Lee's makeup, whether they had the stomach for it is another matter. Oh, you've got to keep Nick now. So here we are all these months or years going pushing nick out and instead of getting rid of a robertson the leaps bring another one in we need rabbi um wow what a fascinating thought that is juicy juicy yeah

so what do you think how old jason 26 oh yeah really and he's not uFA next year so you get him at the cap number this year and you get it next year before a potential $12 million contract kicks in a lot more open to that Nylander for someone else trade if you have Jason Robertson on the way no no you're thinking no it's more than just a greater no recipe no it's more than just a hat rack hold on what would have been worse minton and a first for carlo or Braden Shen in a first or Braden Shen for Cowan at a first. Poor Braden Shed dash 21 right now.

Let me tell you something. If Braden Shinn comes in last year and goes head to head with Sam Bennett, maybe it's the Leafs on top. Sammy. Real close. God, they had the leading game three to go up three-duffin.

They asked you on the morning show about Marchand, and I said that the least might have win the Cup if they had Marchand on the team last year. so mighta mighta shoulda coulda woulda be sure to check out my article on sportsnet dot cae jays might have won the world series if jeff hoppin didn't hang a slider to Miguel rohous anyways that's kind of what I'm thinking about so here okay let's go back to my now I've had a commercial break to think about this Willie Nielander to Seattle okay for Montor Alexiac and Shane right and Shane right okay now we're talking okay we're talking that's it Three for one. Yeah, okay. And Jason Robertson for...

No, no, forget Jason. Oh, forget him. We're forgetting him now? Well, I mean, I'm focusing on Neelander right now. That's the type of trade that I would entertain all day long if I'm the Leafs. Yeah, and so from Seattle's perspective. You don't like the Blue Line, eh? You don't think the Blue Line needs upgrading.

No, the Leafs? Yeah. I do. I just think Jimmy Lexiak's 33 years old. But you're trying to win a cup this year. year, right? Are we? Well, he can with a trade of that magnitude.

Shane Wright, I do think, has found himself a little bit. I haven't followed. And it would be the first star in Seattle history. You're right. They laugh. There's real value there. If I'm Seattle, I think you could talk me into. We just need a guy who can break a game open.

Go for a rush. They don't have that. They've never. They've never had that. They've never had that. Maddie Baneers doesn't do it for you? Well, they're on the cusp of, of being Nashville, where your all-time leading scorers, again, David Leguant,

I know it's Yossi now, but it's like, you know, at some point, you got to be Vegas and go get guys. Got a little mailbag question for you here. Okay. It's self-serving. Chuck, is this from Chuckie's Picks? Listen, we're not naming it Real Kipper Born and McKee, okay? Oh, yeah, we're not.

This is Chuckie Picks. Why is it whenever the least make a questionable hit suspension or the act, the intermission discussion quickly becomes about the supplemental discipline and how many games, yet no other team in the league is treated like that. Lawton gets boarded into Bay Street last night. Not a people. That's a missed call on maybe a board.

Yeah, typically I do think that like, you, what do you want every intermission to be about bad hits and games we're not covering? We're covering the Leafs. So that's why you hear it when you're talking about the Leafs. That one on Lawton, I'm with you. Bad hit, hit from behind. Definitely a two, maybe a five.

No, not a chance of five. Okay, so a two. He sees him coming. It's an illegal hit, even if you see him coming. You're allowed to hit a guy from behind. You are. There's no rule. There's no rule that says I can't hit, I can't body check you.

Except the penalty called hitting from behind. I can hit you from behind. No, you can. Yeah, you can. That's an actual rule hitting from behind. No, it's not. Penalty, there is a penalty called hitting from behind. But I can body check you from behind.

There's a legal way I can body check you from behind. In what way? What is the context of hitting from behind? Nobody's allowed to body check someone from... Right. Nobody's allowed to hit anyone from behind. So if I turn my back on you, I'm not allowed to touch you. Correct.

No. Yes. No. There's not a world that you play a hockey game when I turn my back on you. I got to not touch you. Yes, there is. That's the world you currently live in. No, no.

It doesn't get called like that, though. No, well, listen, there's times where guys take contact like that and brace themselves and whatever. But technically, if you see numbers, you can't hit numbers. that one in particular I'll give you 10 examples a game Rule 43 That doesn't get

Rule 43 May I read it to you? Yes Checking from behind A major penalty that results In an automatic game misconduct Defined as hitting Unaware

Sorry as hitting an unaware player On the back Leaving them defenseless Getting from behind Checking from behind if you like Can we can we roll that again there Jake It should have been It's not getting called guys

It's crazy It's just not, it's not real, it's not NHL. I don't care if the rules there. I think Kip's not talking about this hit. You're talking about generally. Because this hit is obviously. To me, it's a boarding call. That is a, that is a finable hit.

That's a horrible hit. No, it's not a horrible hit. It happens a lot. It happens a lot. Yes, and people get punished for it. No, they don't really get punished for it. They don't. You got to be, you got to be, you got to be down and out.

Florida Kippy over here all of a sudden. He got his blinders on again for the floor of the Panthers. Lawton was defenseless there? Yes. He turned his back. And there was tons of time to let. It's on the hitter to not hit someone there. There's tons of time to let up.

You can't throw a guy into the boards and you can't do that. You can't use the boards and hurt a guy. I agree that people use it as a defense mechanism and say, you can't hit me now and I hate that. It is, but it's rarely. You got to hurt a guy now for a five minute. major. The guy lying on the ice. Yeah.

Maybe he could have melted it. I don't know. Do you want to hear Lotton talk about it? Sure. Let's hear it. Scott Lotton, clip one, hit from behind. Sure. Or we also have Buru?

Yeah, yeah. It was a clear hit from behind. So I'm not sure what they saw there. But yeah, we found a way state discipline stuck together. And Dome's got us started there at the start of the game for us. And I thought we fed off it right away. Guys played physical, Bobby at the end there, had a nice hit, and guys did their job.

I got to shout out Brando, too. I thought he was spectacular coming back. It's hard to come back for that long, and he was getting in the way and making a lot of good plays. Shoving, pushing, hitting numbers. Can I just say what happens a lot, guys. Yeah, yeah. But here's what the problem is.

And I'll tell you both right now, and you can disagree and yell at me and call me a crybaby. maybe. Bobby McMahon does that to lose the reigning. It's a two-gamer 100%. Where every major media guy is talking about how it's an egregious act, they can't do it. You know, the big bad Maple Leafs who lead the league in suspensions from the last eight years. It's, I'm sorry. You can't convince me otherwise. Throw the red meat to your base. No, it's true, though.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, I'm a Leaf fan, and I see the completely unjust way they've been treated by the player department. You can't fine them for bodybagging a guy face first into the boards. He should have been in the penalty box. Five, that's a major. I don't know. They just, I'll tell you, I'll listen to five. So you watch hockey and that's just unpunishable. Don't need to be punished.

No, two, no five, no fine, no nothing. All good. Are you hearing my word? No, but I'm, you know who I'm talking. It would be wise if the NHL. I'm talking to Florida Kippee. It would be wise for the league to find a way to suspend somebody out of. Make the least fans not think this is.

Just to hit Florida. It's 100%. Deep down the league likes the Florida Panthers. Oh, yeah, do you think? They like what they represent. They like what they represent with the toughness. And they want that back. But they have a, I didn't like the hit on Matheson, right?

Marchand. But we're celebrating him now on TikTok so much. So we can't suspend it. All right. Let's turn the page. Let's do it. other stuff. Yeah.

That vicious Bobby McMahon, you know, he would have... Vicious. He would have kicked him out of the league. Okay, what are you got? You should talk about Carlo. I thought he was good? Yeah, I do.

He looks comfortable. He looks probably more confident and what's going on with his foot. So I thought he did a nice job settling everybody down last night. Yeah. How many minutes did he end up with? 20?

No, 18. 18? 18. And he's the most impressive version of his game is it's unimpressive to watch, right? One of those games we go, plus two, his job, that's good. From Sammy Flo on Twitter.

Has Michelli's recent games made him more favorable as an everyday guy? Shirley Yarncrock has become the far more expendable player. Machelli really good last night. Power play, been way better ever since he went out. He had the puck a lot last night. Got the butt the belt.

Yeah, he looks like he's... Chelly. That's what they called him. He's actually smiling a little bit, enjoying himself a little bit. It's been a rough ride. I don't know if... I don't know if, like, there's still a majority of guys here, guys,

they cannot relax. They can't feel comfortable. They can't finally say I've, they should all feel like they're on edge to be on the first line, the fourth line, or a healthy scratch. Mitelli should be one of those. McMahon should be one of those. Max should feel like the urgency is always there from him,

being a top player, bottom end player, or in the stands as well. All these guys have to play on the edge. Yeah, Machelli led the Toronto Maple Leafs in ozone possession time last night It was second in the game total So he had the puck an awful lot And yeah, that's what it looks like when he's going good

I do still feel like he's a guy Who can be good in January and February I don't think this is a guy Who's a part of the solution in the playoffs That's where I'm at on that Assuming the Leafs and Panthers Jump into this is from Zach on Twitter Assuming the Leafs and Panthers

Jump into playoffs by the end of the year That's a lot to assume. Which two teams currently in a spot do you guys think are most likely to fall out? Well, right now, the two wildcards spots. Oh, wow. Pittsburgh and Washington hold the two spots right now. I like Detroit. We've seen them a couple times now against the Leafs,

and they've got some nice players, but there's some nights I watch them and like 12 shots on goal. You know, it's funny that you say that. By goal differential, they're minus five. You know, they're well up. They're six points up on the wildcard spots. But they're, I don't know. Underlying stuff's not as pretty.

So I could see. Who did I say Pittsburgh? I think Pittsburgh for sure is going to fall out. The caps I like, I don't say I like, but. Flyers are in that conversation. Flyers. But they have a plus 11 goal differential. Like they're a little more real.

They actually. Montreal is even as a goal differential team. Like, you know, everyone's an injury away who's inside the playoff bubble from being out. To answer the question. It feels like everyone outside the Lightning and Carolina is eligible for that conversation. Totally. Yeah, and listen, Islanders lump them in there, too, even though they hung three field goals on New Jersey last night. I'll talk about that in the next time.

Yeah, my God. What else wait? Oh, yeah. This is from your pal Dan. Your pal Dan. How can this organization sleep at night knowing they let the Olympians, Pontus Holmberg, and Dennis Malgan slip away from them? Dennis Malgan is going to the Olympics. He's going to play against Connor.

My buddy Pontus. Making a Swedish national team that could win the gold medal. Sure could. Yeah, Connor McDavid and Nathan McKinn's flight doesn't arrive. Switzerland, to me, is the most fascinating roster because you have, you know, really good players. Romaniosi, heeshier, Fiala, and then, you know, you've got guys who are probably playing,

I don't know, Simon Knack or Sondro Schmeet. I wonder, it must be Akira's brother, but, you know, they got guys you haven't heard of. So they're going to go up against McDavid and be like, all right, Christian Marty and Michael Flora. You're the deep pair against. I will say, though. Jack Eichel and Austin Matthews next shift. I will tell you right now, Canada versus Switzerland will be a one goal game. They always play us tough at the senior men's level.

Well, because you're going to play Yosey for 32 minutes. You're going to play. It's just the way. You're a needer rider. I mean, the goalie, David Asherber or David Abisher, he was unbelievable against Canada a couple of times. What was the other guy, the Ducks guy, that was a good goalie? Hiller, Jonas Hiller.

John is unbelievable against Canada. They always have a good goalie. Remember a Latvia had Krister's Good Levskys. That was so good for them. Canada had like 60 shots in that game. They had to bring out like a guy to towel him down. He was so tired. He was going back to the corner.

Like it was a box. He was like getting cut. Then Shea Weber blew a 110 mile an hour. a shot past. All right. Just like that, we've solved nothing for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

But they're right back in the thick of things for the Stanley Cup chase for playoff positioning. Tonight on Scotia Bank Wednesday Night Hockey, the Calgary Flames and the Montreal Canadiens,

which leads us to Eric Francis when we turn the clock and we go national hour. Plenty of storylines as well. What do you thought about his time? Yeah. Also Trevor Zegris, quite the post.

game interview last night. You're darn right it was. We will get our thoughts in on that as well. Don't go away. We go national next on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show.