Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Questioning the Code

Episode Date: March 15, 2024

Justin Bourne and Sam McKee welcome guest host Gord Stellick with Nick Kypreos away. They start with the Leafs' blowout win over the Flyers last night, whether Keefe 'broke the code' by running the top power-play unit late, the Leafs' lucking out on some bad goals, Samsonov's stellar play and Bertuzzi starting to roll. Then, they share their concern levels for Marner's ankle injury. They are joined by former NHL executive Mike Futa (31:53) who shares his thoughts on the Leafs' additions at the deadline, the offseason additions finding their way and he sets the stage for the Leafs' big test tomorrow against the Hurricanes.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Welcome to Real Kipper and Born. Today I am proud to be with former Leafs general manager, all-time great media guy here, Gord Stelik. Welcome, Gord. Great to have you, pal. Well, I've been milking the GM thing, thank you, for many decades, so I'm glad i'm glad i can milk it one more note on your resume it's uh no it's true it's true anyway it's fun it's for and uh yeah always great to be on i'm always watching or listening and i miss sammy

of course we always did least nation for a while so lots of action going on so i'm ready to go i didn't even give you an and sammy mckee the way Kip does, but it's just not natural. Here's the thing. I feel so much more comfortable back over here. In that seat? Yeah, like I was sitting there. I was just, I was a different person over there. I got bad news about the second hour of the show, pal. You're coming to hang with me. Why? What's that? Oh, we got Gord the second hour too?

Yeah, dude, on show! This is amazing. Gord for both hours. I thought we just had one hour of Gord. You're not getting Gord all the way in here for one hour. I'd be worried my pass card wouldn't work on the way out. I've had that before. Don't scare me. That's awesome.

We're on Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, and Sportsnet Plus. You can find the podcast wherever you get your pods. And today, text us at 590-590 in the back half of the show. Gord, Sammy, and I are going to respond to those texts, and we'll actually get to those today. We're going to dedicate a little bit of time to respond to as many of those as possible. So last night, the Leafs, 6-2 victory over the Philadelphia Flyers. Outside of a few injuries, guys,

not sure that there's too many negatives to take away from last night's game. One of their better showings in a while, I thought. Yeah, I really thought it was. And it's funny, first a question about are the Flyers vulnerable right now? I'm not taking anything away from the Leaf win. And then great team win. No Mitch Marner. And they still won.

I know Kelly Yarncroke you mentioned from the injuries. But, yeah, I just liked. We're trying to identify is it a playoff style kind of game. And I thought last night was a playoff style kind of game. I thought it was hilarious about the three broken sticks. I've never seen that before. A one PK situation. And then the other thing about the code,

about putting your best players on at the end. Sorry, is this House League? Sorry, is this House League that some of the parents call? The Flyers and say these Toronto Maple Leafs? I mean, this is not the NHL. Right. So I don't care. You know what?

Next week, if it pisses them off, it pisses off you shouldn't be losing like six two i know sam go ahead and do your thing though last night at five one or six one the leafs put out their top power play unit because it's professional hockey and those guys would like their stats and to work on things and whatever and the other coach you're very upset i think i think you were obviously eligible to put out your best players in a 6-1 National League hockey game, for sure. But if they're doing that to the Leafs, and I'm a fan, or I'm on the team, or I'm Sheldon Keefe, they would be feeling the exact same way.

It cannot be a bigger crybaby thing in sports than this. We could see NHL. Of course, I understand that. But there's unwritten rules in sports that's just one of them there was no time it should be abolished there's no reason for this to be an unwritten rule and sheldon shouldn't even had to try to explain he actually kind of said look i just got my third and fourth line off so and they then they put their best penalty killers on yeah and they scored a short and a goal so wait a sec you know yeah And anyway, that was kind of a weird note at the end about it.

But I, you know, to the point, there were so many positives. Good team game. Coming together with depth, which is what you hope sustains them in the playoffs, because that's something they've lacked in other years. Yeah. And also, I will note that the Leafs scored a power play goal when all the sticks were dropped. And it was Lilligren to McCabe to Nyes. So, you know, you guys are still giving up goals to those guys.

Hold on. You guys can't see Rocky Thompson's perspective at all? I got zero. Zero? I mean, eight-nothing, maybe. Like, you know, it's not like it's – I still don't think it's silly. Even eight-nothing. Just go play hockey.

I mean, I think – yeah, okay. just go play hockey i mean i think yeah okay i just the fact that keith did immediately took off the top unit after getting screamed at to me was very telling no and he put his top penalty killers on that's what that's what's about he immediately was like oh crap i probably shouldn't have done that for me was the point where i was like yeah okay if he was leaving it out there to stick it to him he would have left them out there a little longer, I think. But I just, I don't know. I get why they're mad. And they're competitive.

They're getting starched. It's not a great look. I understand your guys' perspective. But I think if you were both in that scenario, you would feel a similar way. I think Sheldon's doing a solid for Bradshaw and Rocky Thompson, that he talked to them. You know, these are the interim coaches.

And a lot of people thought like boy if john tortorella was there which i think is wrong because they they won a game without him but i think i think keith was almost being polite because these guys were the interim coaches and yeah and and the players they pick up from the coach okay when the coach chirps on that the players pick up and then when they're driving home they're going that was sucky yeah That was sucky. That was lame. You know, the Leafs came back from five goals in one period. Oh, you mean so that

they would have a clearer second thought driving home from their rig? Oh, 100%. They probably would. We've had a kick-ass season. You know, we're in the playoffs. Nobody thought we'd be. I'm talking Philadelphia now. And we've had it because we play a certain way that's admirable by the other 31 NHL teams by and large. It doesn't include that.

Yeah, so we don't need to kick that around anymore, but it is a worthwhile conversation. Well, it is a two-hour show, right? It is. Okay, yeah. Okay, am I mistaken again? Why am I only here for five minutes? Why don't we start with Sheldon giving us an overview of the game, get his thoughts, and we'll dive in from there.

Well, we got a great goal first to start the game and get us get us going well um you know first couple shifts weren't weren't the best uh to be honest but but that was a great goal that we got a great sequence uh through there great pass by austin and finish by bert so so that's a great moment to get us going early and scoring scoring early and playing ahead uh you know and playing ahead. And then I thought we played well. I thought we defended well. We did things that we wanted to do here today in terms of not allowing the big chance or the

big... This team gets a lot off the rush. A lot of breakaways. Two-on-ones and getting them behind you a lot. I thought we managed that really well tonight. It wasn't perfect. I mean, goaltending is a factor here. I mean, Sammy made great saves for us. You know, we got some that I'm sure that their goalie coach doesn't love on the other side.

And then the second period, I thought, you know, they made the goalie switch. The guy came in, made some big saves, and then they scored, and it's a game there. But overall, I like how our guys stayed with it. Fair enough. Got some goals that their goalie coach wouldn't have loved. Yeah.

That's a nice way to say it. And that's a fair point, but I think the National Statric had the high danger chances at 19-2 for the Leafs. Wow. It showed. It did show. Yeah.

You know, we talked about it yesterday with Charlie O'Connor that that decor was just really hurting. They traded Sean Walker, clearly. Rasmus Vistalainen's out. A lot of Igor Zamola last night. It just, they're really hurting on the back end for sure. So it kind of showed. And it's, I mean, a huge testament for them to still be in the playoffs

with that roster and just how hard they work. And that was a closer game than it looked until halfway through the third period when they kind of blew it open. But yeah, they're struggling a little bit. You know, talking to Craig Berube because he does a insider hit on our NHL network radio show weekly.

So talked about the flyers about a month ago and being a coach. First thing you talked about, first of all, I said every other team there's as prepared, you know, work as well as any team in the NHL. But what do coaches say first? Bang, bang, goaltending.

Goaltending. And it was a one-two punch. Of course, Carter Hart not there anymore. So they're riding this guy, what, 22 out of 23 games? Yeah. You know, so that's some. A lot of work. So that's something.

And that's taking nothing away from any of the other aspects that's gone right for Philadelphia. But that's a team that I'm kind of surprised how great, how solid the goaltending's been. And that's a big reason they're in the playoffs right now for sure it is and yeah so a game like where they've relied on that all year then last night Lilligren comes in steps over the blue line just like wrists went into the net from distance you're like yeah can I defend Arison a little bit on that one it knuckled it was a slider yeah like Steve like just right down to the outside corner of the plate I thought but yeah i'm supposed to make those references dave steve well i mean i've seen i respect that that's

great i mean who would i go with more recent i mean manoa's slider was pretty good there for a couple years and but wasn't dave steve that's for sure so the other end of things sammy plays well again the goalie not the co-host over here um You know, is he, they gave him the start over a wool and they had been alternating things. You know, is this some sort of indication that they're going, God, maybe he's the one that's going to play game one? Yeah. I don't know if he will.

But first, one is when I really give Samsonoff a lot of credit and I give the organization a lot of credit about being, you know, my day would be get the hell out of here, play for whatever a farm team is, and that's you know where they said no it's not going to help him going to the ahl so whatever they did behind the scenes and whatever he did to get a reset you got to me i commend both of them so you go into the playoffs and and can are both joe wall and samson off ready well that's a great situation i mean, Vegas last year needed two goaltenders, and they weren't big names.

So they just need to have one of them being able to play playoff games that always give you a chance to win, and if they steal, that's a bonus. Because except for Joe Wall last year, they have not had that. And I love Freddie, but they've been out-goaltended basically all the time in the playoffs. Yeah, I didn't think there was anything last night that made me feel that different, but there's a point there last night where it gets to 3-1, I think,

and there's a power play the Flyers have where a guy has an open look in front, and Samsonov gets a skate blade on one, where all of a sudden, if it's 3-2, it changes the tone a little bit. We got Sheldon Keefe weighing in on his goalie here, so let's go to clip three and see what Sheldon had to say. Yeah, I was late for this season for sure right he's more like himself than we came to expect from last season and it's been like that for quite some time so it's that's a huge part of our group right now and there you go i i can't believe this is the same

guy like i really because he's gotten back to the point with me last year where one of my things that I would say on Leafs Talk a lot is that he just looks like a capable starting NHL goalie where you don't think about him a whole lot. Where at the start of the year, it's all you thought about. It's a circus. He's like Peter Mrazik in there. I couldn't, I mean, Peter Mrazik was okay for a stretch this year, but he just had these moments where, you know,

every sort of shot going towards him, you were panicking. Like, it was all you thought about. In this stretch of, I don't know how many, since he's come back, there was a little bit of a dip there, but since then. You go and do something like this. And totally redeem yourself! I'm just kind of back to last year where i'm not really thinking about it and worrying about it a whole lot because that's the whole thing when you're a goal like when you're a coach

a general manager a fan a player on the team the last thing you want to be doing is just thinking about your goalie a lot like you just want him to kind of be solid and consistent and he's gotten back to a place i never expected him to get to i have to be honest you got to get peter morass of credit he he saved a teammate for getting the crap kicked out of him, the Chicago Anaheim game, when he was the third man in on that kind of fight. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. When Gibson came down.

Yeah, you know, by the way, Matt Murray's been on the ice for a while, too. It's not three in a crease. There's four in a crease. Don't tell Gary Bevin that. We don't have that talk here. But the other side about it is, now, you're better at looking at the technical side.

He doesn't seem as busy. That was the whole thing about Samsonov. Like, you just look busy. Too much is going on. He's got a lot of work. He's out of the net. He's got to push back into the net. And certainly a little bit calmer now.

So, you know, how much of that is the last three games they put him in against Arizona, Philly, and Montreal, you know, versus Joe Wohl gets Boston-Boston. Yeah. But... Saturday night against Carolina, if you're going on merit, to me, the starting goalie would be Samsonov again. To me, it's like, how is that reasonably fair to Joe Wohl,

who you handed Boston-Boston to? Well, I mean... You haven't played... Way to go getting wins against the bottom teams in the league. You can't play every 10 days. Yeah, I guess. One of their biggest schedule gaps. I think they basically have a tandem going now,

and they're comfortable getting in the playoffs, and you want to give both of them equal time in the net to both be prepared. The only risk is, let's say you go back to Wohl and he gets Carolina, who just beat the breaks off Florida. And so now he loses again because Carolina's a great team team just like boston is and all of a sudden this guy is on some sort of losing streak sammy wins every time he's in and our you know what does that do for for the mental state of your starters that's a part of the reason why if i was a coach i might consider starting him but i think it's pretty clear they'll go wall on saturday like it's just

the way they've been doing things but i'm just you know feels like sammy's the starter again and i never thought you remember with freddie the whole concern was we got to give freddie some rest yeah remember that was the whole concern all the time they played him like every night well yeah and then he never go in his prime and then he ever got then he ever had great playoffs as well but here we got we're talking uh i guess riches of goaltenders trying to find enough crease time for them yeah riches, riches is generous, but we'll take it. Quantity-wise. I mean, in Freddie's, how many years here? Five years.

The first four years, he was 66, 66, 60, 52. That's wild. That's a lot of hockey. They played him way too much. That's crazy. You know, on the upside of things last night, so Mitch Marner's not in, you know on the upside of things last night so mitch marner's not in which is not the upside part but they put together a line with matthews nylander and bertuzzi

as yarn crock well they had yarn crock but bertuzzi ended up sorry nylander ended up being on the line when they scored the first one right i don't know who stayed late but the point i want to make is more bertuzzi based which is just they kind of got a guy here do they not like does he not look totally different from the first half of the year? And that's why trade deadline, I know Kippy wrote about it and you guys have talked about it extensively that, you know, first of all,

their rivals didn't do a lot in the Atlantic Division. And your trade deadline pickups are Max Domi and Tyler Bertuzzi finding their way because they're hired guns, they're on expiring contracts, which is usually, you know, that you have that kind. And I got to tell you, there was a, that Boston game was a statement game.

I don't know how many people said, I didn't, I didn't like the loss, but I love the game. Because going back to when Marshan was, you know, what the visual of them doing nothing when Lilligren was injured and the new guys in town, aside from the fact they've been contributing before that, but that word snot, that Brian Burke used truculence, Brad Treleaven used snot, Kyle Dewish used unnecessary, whatever. But they showed the snot, you know?

Like in that one, they initiated, even Jake McCabe a little bit. And so if you're going to play boston in the playoffs or whomever that part i like because they're as we well know it there's an element of that and it's not for wayne simmons or kyle clifford or matt martin or fraser mclaren or colton or it's about someone that can be in your top nine and provide that you know burt was the exact guy we We talked, so we had Anthony Petrilli on yesterday and we talked about how Bertuzzi would be best if it were like eight on eight hockey. The more traffic, the more chaos, the better he is.

And last night is a great example. The swinging foul ball tip that gets waved off is one of the best tips I've seen in NHL history. I mean, the timing to be able to redirect it with force as it's coming across your body that's a legitimate top two top three goal of the year candidate if that stands it was one of the more unbelievable things you've seen with the broken stick one yeah right yeah that one was great but i the rule the thing that led to it getting overturned is just such a spot where

you can't have any gray area right there's just no gray there's no gray area it's no goal but like he got buried and his hand is like he's like his dead hand like touches the puck a little bit it wasn't i think a spirit of the rule thing but it's gray area you can't have it but yeah i suck to see that come off the board but there's an amazing look after that of what bertuzzi's good and bad at, he got in alone for a break, and he squared the puck off and dumped it in the corner. And it was like, God, he can't handle it with space, but get him in traffic. And yeah, one of his better games of the year last night.

Why don't we hear Sheldon, we can go in more on that clip too, please. Well, he's been a good player in the league, and probably the biggest thing is he just, the number of chances that he had, so close into the net or in around the net that just hadn't been going in for him you know he gets another one taken away here tonight i think that's three that i can recall now that have been taken away uh from him yeah this season

um but he's around that net and uh you know it's good to see it's it's an important piece for our team three that he's had i can't remember the three was he up to see. It's an important piece for our team. The three that he's had? I can't remember the three. Was he up to 13? Like, there's a sneaky chance he could get to, could he get to 20? He needs seven more in the last 17 games. Feels like it's asking a lot.

Yeah, but, you know, you're getting into that conversation where he is legitimate depth scoring. And keep in mind, last year at the trade deadline, this was a big trade from Detroit to Boston. Yeah, I mean mean this guy's one year away from and because when the Bruins get eliminated in the first round and that always changes the perception of the deal he didn't go from you know that that's still a hell of a if this was a trade deadline move this year to me that's still a hell of a pickup like they did

last year in Boston about getting Todd or Bertuzzi I mean he's that he's and to a different extent Max Domi kind of with two consecutive playoffs you know playoff experience because he'd been boston about getting totter bertuzzi i mean he's that he's and to a different extent max domi kind of with two consecutive playoffs you know playoff experience because he's been with teams that haven't been in the playoffs arizona and montreal dallas last year in carolina right the last two years so he's been a serviceable i don't know whatever the word i mean you know kind of player so they they've kind of they're kind of add-ons that have had about i don't know about bertuzzi having positive playoff experience maybe not that but a touted guy the kind of add-ons that have had about i don't know about bertuzzi having positive playoff experience maybe not that but a touted guy the kind of player you need and domi that

that's not as well but also a guy who was a plus was a good depth guy with two different teams in the playoffs last year in 19 games he had 13 points and 52 penalty minutes in 19 that's a lot of pims that's a lot of pims in 19 games but i think if there's one thing that really does give me some hope heading towards the playoffs with the inevitable series only one positive note here they won i don't want to get too down in the weeds with this but it is that those two guys domi and bertuzzi specifically have really as we've been getting closer to playoffs here have started to kind of turn it on a bit and started to look like the best versions of themselves

and both of them being sold as playoff contributors for this team and all they're really going to start to look their best when it's playoff time. The fact that we're inching closer towards that and it's sort of starting to happen does give me a bit of hope, I have to say. You know the big thing I like about this? I have no idea.

I have no idea what it means heading in the playoffs. The year when it was the Canadian division, and they won those three games in Edmonton, three different goaltenders almost got shutouts, but one goal was scored. That was, okay, I would have bet, I'm not a betting guy, I would have bet whatever on it. So I really, I don't know,

the mystery of what constitutes the right way, the best way to get you better prepared for the playoffs, or does it predicated on playoff experiences? Like last year you won a series. So maybe that's the positive, but yeah, I don't know. I've been everything going on.

It's not just Toronto. It's a lot of other teams, but what, what is the best way to enhance your chance of playoff success in how you play the regular season and finish the regular season. Well, we had Ralphie earlier this week, and he was saying that he loves them as an underdog. Like, he loves them in a series going into Boston

as an underdog. He thinks that any time there's the expectations on the score or that they should beat somebody, that's when it goes the other way. And I think... It hasn't gone either way. Well, no, it hasn't. They've done a lot of losing, for sure.

Yeah, they've done a lot of losses. But they've also been the favorite in a lot of these series, right? Like, looking back, going against... Recently, for sure. Well, Columbus, I don't know if they were actually a betting favorite, but they were perceived...

Oh, God, they were a favorite. They were a trail favorite, yeah. They're perceived as favorites against Columbus, Montreal. I think the first Tampa series, both Tampa series, I think they were favorites. Well, no, one was in Tampa, so you got to give them it and you could say last year maybe they were the favorite didn't they both start in toronto they did both start in toronto game seven

year yeah okay and then well washington they weren't i want to say the second boston series that might have been two maybe five straight years where you'd say at least close you know break even or favorite somewhere in that realm. So that's the hope is that maybe the underdog status return will help them out. Gord, to your question about what's the best way to go about it, one thing recently, so it's been broken, but when teams in the playoffs have gone seven games and then won and then gone up against a team who swept their series, the team that went seven games won the next series like i was seven

straight times say okay yeah one more time so team goes seven games knock down drag out series and they win and then they play a team coming off a sweep the team that had been through the war won those series like seven straight times until i think recently the streak was broken last year but you know so the teams that get in and fight and play competitive hockey right up to the end, there is some advantage to having to play playoff-style must-win hockey and rather at least have coasted in a lot of years now. The team that swept then is off like the equivalent of that long break.

Like 13 days sometimes. Remember they put all the breaks together now because it was so obvious when it was so obvious that they staggered them but you've been off five days you got your you got your butt killed coming back terrible and a terrible hockey game and that's almost so the funny one one thing people say is you can't play four seven game series you got to have a series that only lasts five and maybe that is the case but the other part is there's extra days off and things like that you know and and uh but but you're right about the winning well how about teams that you know like the memorial cup if they're off for a while and then they and they you know the home team the

host team and then they have to play 30 days later yeah it's like they're sitting at home and then a red hot team what wins a one of the leagues comes in and stuff for them yeah sure i was thinking last night watching bertuzzi a lot of earlier in this season we did a lot of god you're paying him five five and five five and you know the number kept coming up what you're paying him all of a sudden you step back from his season right now and how he's playing right now and if he were a ufa what he would get and kind of start to feel like he's worth the money again and would probably get a similar contract wouldn't he oh absolutely absolutely absolutely. Absolutely. And, and, you know,

now maybe, you know, maybe they wish they had term, but I like the fact that, that they didn't, you know, it, it,

it, it sort of put them, both of them have to establish things. And early on, you kind of thought, oh man, are they going to just be a step ahead of John Klingberg? Yeah.

You know, about not making any, you know, not putting on a good show and not helping their marketing value. But yeah, it's, it's just nice to see it. Like I've compared it about sometimes making any, you know, not putting on any good show and not helping their marketing value. But yeah, it's just nice to see it. Like I've compared it about sometimes we've all had things about somewhere new, a school, a workplace,

and you don't get off on the right foot. And then quite often you never get rolling. You're David Clarkson, you're Nick Ritchie, you know? Well said, yeah. You're not Michael Bunting, you know? And I was worried that that might've been the case for those guys. And that's what I'll go along with Sam about.

I will say that is an encouraging part heading into the playoffs. Him finding a little bit. I would do four times his current contract right now. Who? For Tuzzi. Yeah? It's a little much. Four times five.

Four times five? But you're not going to get him for cheaper. Four times four or five? Yeah. So what would you give? I don't know. Sammy doesn't keep the cap in mind when he gets crazy. He was going to give Jack Campbell Connor McDavid money.

Eight times 12.5. I compared him to Cujo. I don't think I would give him any contract. No. I know. I think he's gotten better and he's continuing to improve here. But like there's a lot of year where it wasn't going. I don't know.

I don't know if he's the perfect fit. Wait and see what he does in playoffs. Absolutely. Don't pay him way too much. I think an underlying story right now that's important is the injuries. Mitch Marner, the report is high ankle sprain for Marner. He has previously had one, but high ankle sprains are, are a not quick or fun to deal with

and aren't often like it's better now 100%. So how concerned are we on the Mitch Marner thing? Well, I mean, the injuries for all the teams, right? And the Leafs have been, you know, haven't had Dougie Hamilton or Mark Stone or, you know, those kinds of injuries that other teams have helped, geez, Gabriel Landeskog and what have you. So, I mean, it's a weird thing. And actually, I guess their record, their record is great when Riley's out of the lineup. Their record is great when Matthews is out of the lineup,

which is weird logic. And Tavares, too. It's good. And Tavares. But Mitch is actually the one that... Mitch has been the smallest sample. He's only missed, like, 25 games in his career or something. But obviously, you miss him big time. Yeah. But it's going to be the kind of thing those are the kind of players that are

going to could be out in the playoffs and the team that wins it all uh wins in spite of the injuries yeah and that's what they're supposed to be we have a clip here about the the update just for the sound of how serious it is if you want to play a clip eight there derek has he skated like was he on the ice at all yeah he skated he skated today he skated yesterday yeah yesterday is he still you said no update is he still kind of in that day-to-day sense no i would say it's it's more so more and more than more than that at this point uh he won't skate tomorrow and leave a day off a couple days for him to settle and then and sort of start to ramp it back up for next week there you go okay so he's not going to play this day today could be

next saturday that sort of thing we're looking at two and a half weeks maybe total yeah eat them you need them well it's a really hot take but you need them you need them at full strength but you know what i will say this is one of those things where if you're buying into the leaf season playing out fortuitously we have said in the past this guy guy, these guys play too much. Freddie Anderson playing 66 games. Mitch Marner is the guy that Kip's always saying, you know, this guy can't play 27 minutes a night in game 57, then expect him to produce some playoffs,

maybe two and a half weeks off in late March or, you know, mid March, not the worst thing for the guy. Maybe it could have happened two weeks before the deadline. I don't, I don't know about the injury thing, but I know,

I know. And you're not referencing that either but i gotta believe to your point i mean it's a science now like i want to have that job to tell you how much to sleep i know what a great job hey a lot you sleep a lot it's great shout out richard you know they don't practice they don't practice long um and the thing about players missing games is it's kind of they're in that mode anyway, and they're young, you know, like Mitch wanting to play. But I accept from Kippy that being a factor. And also in the playoffs, again, you don't want them playing 27 minutes.

Like you want four lines going or at least three lines going because that's what's happened far too often. They've had to throw those guys out there every second shift. Well, and today, so they rolled out some new look lines. Marner's out and Yarncroft is out. Yarncroft is a hand thing. He just came off a hand thing. I got no further up.

Was it a hand thing? Yeah. You think? I thought it was a whole body thing. I thought it was. But yeah, there was a report that it was his hand. Oh, great. Yeah, we'll see.

He's going to be out for a little bit, it looks like, once again. God, it was nice for him to be back too. But the lines are very interesting. Holmberg on a top line matthews and bertuzzi old pontus getting some shine um and then they kind of made three lines nize tavarez robertson back in mcmahon domi nylander as a third line which is interesting reeves out with doer gregor and camp as a fourth line pontus can you see it do you mind him getting that extra shine, getting some Matthews time? Well, I mean, see Bobby McMahon, another one. Finding guys that can play.

You know, I always remember a guy named Mason Raymond. He was only here one year, and it wasn't a very good team. But he got a good contract out of it from Calgary because whatever it was, that year he was able to play on every line. Again, not a very good team. But that's what you want to try to get where there's those guys about that you say okay especially when the playoffs what are the horses i have where am i going to go because every year when the disappointments happen you got you're looking at making adjustments you know along the way so i don't mind it at all i think the fact that they went on this uh tear lately finally got some comfort space.

They weren't comfortable all year to that six game until that Morgan Riley out winning streak. This is exactly what you want to try. Yeah, they do have some breathing room now. Holmberg made a great pass on Matthew's goal last night. He did. Where Labushkin, again, just gets buried. He gets hit a lot.

Yeah. And we pass it up to holmberg and holberg made a great pass and he shot his 55 55th in the net there but yeah i think holmberg's the type of guy that they all talk about they're all like oh he's the most skilled guy they all love him they all seem to have this like are they joking are they facetious i don't know but they all like you know mitch morgan asked who's his favorite player and he said it's his holmberg like i do that about my buddy who's the worst you know i'm like oh yeah he's the best i mean he's in the nhl and it's not like he stinks oh i know and he had two points last night he scored one of their

goals like i think he's a guy that they like to be able to move up and down so um why don't we listen to sheldon talking about the lineup to play carolina as the team they have tomorrow night so it should be a good battle there. You look at our lineup and practice that we had today, that's sort of my response to it, just in terms of getting more versatility in. You've got Speed and Skill, Robertson and Gregor,

and Gregor in the penalty kill, Robertson in the power play, so you're just trying to have a more versatile lineup, in particular with the opponent that we have tomorrow night that's going to be four lines deep and scoring spread out over four lines as much or more so than anybody in the league so that's a night where you know we're going to need four lines there you go i did a quick search here while he was talking because i was thinking he uh does get hit a lot. I wonder

who gets hit the most in the league. And at 5-on-5, the leader is Jake McCabe. He gets hit more than anyone else in the NHL. Really? Yeah, he's been hit. I'm going to do all strengths here, so I'll do a quick toggle. But yeah, he's been hit 149 times this year. So, okay.

McCabe has been? That's a lot of times. So, the positive or negative side of that stat so one is the guy is unafraid he takes a hit yeah he makes the other is i i view the positive versus others that say maybe they can catch him to catch up to him too much he should be more elusive i don't know how hard you interpret those things yeah well that's a good question it's laboosh can anyone near there uh nowhere that i saw easily in the top but uh brody was eighth and lilligran is ninth no he's he's 12th so yeah there's some leafs that are going back and getting hit quite a bit which to me actually says something about running more interference for your partner you know when or the forwards happen well the

expression forward slowing down hit yeah guys afraid to take a hit right so i mean that's a positive obviously unless they were afraid to get a hit, right? So, I mean, that's a positive, obviously, unless they were afraid to get, they still got hit anyway. That's not good. So, a three in the top 12. Yeah, of guys getting hit a lot. Wow. Something to consider. We'll go to break. We're going to get to Mike Feud after the break here. He's going to talk a little

hockey. We got some questions for him, and then we'll have Doug McClain. With no Kipper. With no Kipper. I don't even know what to expect there. Doug and I have never talked to no Kipper. I'm a little terrified. But anyway, Pewts is coming up next after this. Breaking down the biggest trends in hockey.

The Hockey PDO cast with Dimitri Filipovich. Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to Real Kipper and Born. We are now joined by two-time Stanley Cup winning executive Mike Feud, a friend of the show. How are you doing, Feuds? I'm doing awesome, Borny. Awesome.

You guys are doing a wonderful job with the dataway thanks i do feel like you know we're gonna have to like clean up the studio when he comes back or something like my parents been away or something but no it's been going good um just talking a little bit about uh the leafs last night we're we're happy to get you on the leafs hour so we can actually ask you questions about them um I don't know that we've got you on since the deadline and just kind of wanted to get your thoughts on the way they went about it adding Labushkin Edmondson Dewar was that enough for you are you happy with the way they handled their deadline well I think Brad did what he did with the assets that he had I don't think he had much

to move and I think in that case he went out of his way to, I think ideally he would have liked, I mean, Labishkin's a righty. I think ideally, you know, if Edmondson shot right, he would have hit it out of the park. But, you know, when you don't have the assets and you've got other people bidding and you don't have the cap space, I think he did an admirable job. He's gone out of his way looking at who his first round opponent is to get the team harder to play against and i think with the additions of edmondson and

lubushkin he accomplished that i still think it's a work in progress uh when you see we're going to see like carolina come in last night and i just don't see we're seeing that camaraderie yet where the pairs just have that synergy where you're completely comfortable but it's definitely still a work in progress so up front we talk about the uh additions more last summer and i'm curious about uh max domi and tyler bertuzzi finding their way mike and and what what's you see that potentially being a difference maker in the playoffs for a team that has had bad playoff finishes for too many years well i listened to you guys start off and i couldn't agree more that they're playing their best hockey now and i love the fact it doesn't look like toronto is going to get to max like he's used to it and i think even last night the confidence that

that pertuzzi's playing with and he's finding ways to laugh about missed chances now because he seems to have his confidence but again it's it's going to come down to what they do in the playoffs and I know Borny Borny asked me the other night when I asked about coming on he said to watch the Philly Philly Toronto game and I found myself last night like a kid kind of cheating and looking over at the test on another channel and watching the Florida Carolina game after the Flyers kind of got wiped early and uh I think it's going to be a real big test on Saturday night I mean obviously it sounds like based on what you guys said that Mitch is going to be able to line up but this Carolina Hurricanes team right now and they've been playing some big boys too they've

been kind of going a little uh going back and forth with um playing the Rangers and playing Florida and their depth and with weight what they've added I think it's going to be a real kind of going a little uh going back and forth with um playing the rangers and playing florida and their depth and with weight what they've added i think it's going to be a real big test for that leaf defense because again i still don't like i thought last night i think i think that brody took a penalty because he was forced to defend playing his offside and he had to kind of dive to the middle when the guy beat him to the inside which is a tough thing for anybody to do but i think that saturday night game is going to be one heck of a test for the leafs playing a team that uh that is kind of hitting all cylinders with depth up front and a defense core that's six deep and we'll see who they play in that because freddie

never seems to play very well against the leafs but the uh kakachev has been very very very solid yeah maybe you can help us tee up that game, that Carolina Hurricanes team. Do you feel like they're better than they've been in years past? Like they've had some fairly deep runs and they've, you know, there's been a little bit of turnover there. Obviously, nice addition with Gensel, Kuznetsov scores the other night.

Did you feel like this is their best chance at a Stanley Cup? Health aside, and I i mean i'm not backing away from your question because i was a part of the organization a couple years ago and as i and i talked at length i sat in that in that war room and at the time there was a no rental rule uh and there was only certain prospects that they were willing to part with and at the deadline i mean max was added late but there was a chance to add Giordano and Delorier, which were players that Roddy coveted, and they didn't want to move on from any of their prospects.

And I give Tom Dundon and his staff full credit this year because needing someone that can be a game-breaker with his puck and the stick in the playoffs, you couldn't have asked for a better guy proven than Gensel. And Kuznetsov is not too far in the past showed he can do it too and it's easy to share for him with the problems he's had so as far as depth and that blue line I mean you talk about when we try and put pairs together you got like Slavin, Burns, Pesci, Orlov, Shea and Chadwick and then you've got DeAngelis as a healthy scratch that's deep that

is deep and uh and they match up there's a lot of righties there lefties so I think it's going to be again because the skill that the Leafs have up front is going to challenge them it would be a real I think it's just going to be a good test for both teams and particularly Toronto because you see that um I just didn't think I know we're giving him credit for last night and i i kind of disagree with sammy i thought arson was absolutely terrible early in a game that uh and i very dis i very seldom disagree with sammy but when drysdale's and russel lane are out of the lineup you need a much better effort when you're fighting for his playoff and if that was a slider then he should have dropped down and done his best buck martinez he blocked the ball that was a terrible terrible goal yeah i i thought sammy had a

terrible start too as far as the first segment so far so maybe that's why he was sensitive you know so you know carolina last year they lost every playoff game by one goal right they just could not get that one goal and mike in a lot of ways although to me Carolina Carolina's a stronger team this year no question compared to Toronto but they're both looking for that guy to be in the running for the cons my trophy right that guy in the playoffs that's Nathan McKinnon for Colorado that you know is one of the Tampa Bay guys I mean it's kind of that way they've got elite players both teams and they and if if one or two of them do in the playoffs, it could be a fun run because they have it in the past. I think you nailed it, Gore, but I think there's some... When we won our Cups with the Los Angeles Kings,

if you kind of internally voted on probably, and I'm not taking anything away, Quickie was phenomenal and Justin Williams was phenomenal, but there probably weren't a lot of votes for Andrzej Kopitar, and that's because he was the most accountable guy every night, 200 feet. And I think that guys like Sebastian Ajo play such an accountable game under Roddy Brindamore that their numbers aren't such that that they're acknowledged for being that kind of guy.

But I think a player with the talent of a Svechnikov, if he gets hot, and Ajo, I could definitely see. I don't see you see a goaltender for the Hurricanes being a guy that's named. But I do think if a Gensel gets hot, they might have a few guys that are candidates instead of one guy that kind of takes the ball and run for it, which you see with some of the start teams. But, again, I think it's going to be an exceptionally interesting series.

And I think so much matters when you look at – i i've read borny stuff about the playoffs and it's so i mean i looked at the western conference matchups that they started today there are eight teams like pick your poison in the first round where it stands where i think in the east um it's really critical in that conference for somebody the rangers and the Hurricanes, battling for that top spot. And I think, again, Florida and Boston, that battle that's going on because you've got the Leafs sitting there with everything to prove. They may not be the favorites in whatever the pundits' mind are betting, but in everybody in Toronto's mind, they're the favorite because of what they need to accomplish to save face for the last success

over the last few years. When you guys won your cups, if I'm not mistaken, I think you had Clifford, Jordan Nolan. You guys had some muscle on the fourth line. Do you think Ryan Reeves needs to be in the Leafs lineup come playoffs? Can he be an effective version of what you guys had? It depends who they match up against. Last night, I actually sent a text to Mike Johnson effective version of what you guys had? It depends who they match up against. I mean, last night I was trying,

I actually sent a text to Mike Johnson because I was surprised that the way the flyers have kind of been built this year, that Nick Deloria wasn't in the lineup and he was healthy. Like he, and I guess he and Revo were having the conversations that everybody has nowadays in the warmup. And then he was healthy scratch. So it depends who your playoff opponent.

Like I know they can't drive caroline in the first round but based on what i heard sheldon i can't believe more that's not it's not a series that ryan reeves is going to be necessary and i mean they're not going to draw brandon lemieux in the lineup to take care of ryan reeves and that's no knock on ryan reeves because i think he's playing much better hockey uh whereas if they play the new york rangers somewhere down the line i don't think boston uh if it gets if they have to throw it in the mud, I don't think they necessarily have a guy that matches up that Reeves has got to be there to keep them honest.

I think he'd be more effective against a team like that. The Rangers, I mean, I don't know. Is their kid going to be out of jail by then? I'm sure he is. It's all about the matchup, but Carolina, they've always consciously thought, and that's why I was pushing for Nick Deloria when I was there, that that's not a player that they felt they needed.

And Brandon Lemieux kind of is there for them now, and he fills in when they feel that they need to address some toughness on the other side. But I don't think that's going to be a factor in the playoffs. Yeah, something you probably heard us talking about earlier as well, Mike. And, again, we referenced your two Stanley Cups. I know one of them, I guess the Kings just got in at the end and just went on a tear.

How do you gauge a regular season, whether it's Carolina, Toronto, whomever, to get you best prepared for playoff success? I mean, is there anything you've found over the years? Well, we went about it two completely different ways. And I will tell you, you in 2012 we had to play every game like it was an absolute street fight just to get in and vancouver had an asterisk for about six weeks they knew they were the first seed and and we came in and we were ready for a street fight and we just kicked the living crap out of them in vancouver physically in every facet and

they weren't ready to play have a turf war and they never rebounded we were up three nothing in the series i mean and we weren't again we were up three nothing in every series in 2012 and we weren't picking the tar out of everybody there was a lot of overtime one goal wins but you're still up three nothing you're never facing defeat at one time which is a incredible way to do it and i think it was a lot to do with Daryl Sutter. But consistency, I laugh. We played the same six defensemen from the trade deadline, Christmas on, all the way through the day we hoisted the Stanley Cup. We played the same six, which is unheard of, with injuries and stuff like that.

But, I mean, our guys were war-torn. And then 2014 was the exact opposite. We won three Game 7s on the road in the first three series to find a different way to win. So that one was a little harder on the nails than the heart. But then again, the final results there, and that's why so many teams, I look at some of these teams that have made really strong moves to get themselves a chance at that banner.

And when you look at the match-ups, some of them could be be like you talk about vegas who's got to get in now but if you get vegas and edmonton there's a lot of currency that was spent that could result in a first round exit so it should be very very fun to watch it's funny you know because you look at these teams you talked about you guys fighting tooth and nail to get into that postseason. Tampa, the year they won the President's Trophy, got mopped by Columbus, right? And then last year, Boston, all-time points record, they lose to Florida. It's like you almost have to have some adversity

along the way in these seasons. Well, usually what I'd say to that point, I agree with you 100%, is we went a few rounds and kind of got busted up before we went the distance. We learned our lesson. And that's the only thing I'd say about the Toronto team, and it is nothing because I love Brad Shelleving,

and I'm of the point that, I mean, there's people there. I'd love to see Mark Giordano win another Stanley Cup, but I don't think the league wants this team out. I think they'd love to see this team go deep, but they haven't had that adversity where they've had a long playoff run and they've failed early every time so it is going to be different i don't think it's a thing i think they're capable of going on that run and going the distance their first time but it is unusual for a team to have all their adversity in a first run before they make an unsuccessful long playoff run uh boy i know a tv network and radio network that would love a long run for the toronto

maple leafs that's for sure okay as far as it goes now uh rod brindamore so contracts up is that correct and you know tom tom dundon pays a little different okay you know like uh so and and last time you know it kind of had had to be massaged for him to stay there. And I'm just curious, what's your gut feel right now? Well, I think if Carolina has success, regardless that they had success, I've never met a human being like Rod Brindamore. He's an absolute machine. I thought, and I mean it's funny because I was going to make a comment. I don't want to get off track.

But this guy was in the gym 6 o'clock every morning. I mean, the guy's got muscles in his face. His work ethic is so off the charts. Like I used to think that, and I used to be told, like I felt I was a pretty good orator, but you can't give your best Vince Lombardi or the guys will tune you out. This guy does it every night.

He goes in there before every game. And after a game, he addresses them every well. And it's not X's and O's. It's about getting them going. And you can just feel his energy and his passion. And yes yes he took a very huge pay cut to be the coach and even to return and resign and it'll be an interesting thing because i know last time he took less of his less to keep some of his assistant coaches

on i believe the leafs assistant moved on to from carolina because they didn't have the money to pay him so hopefully if there's some kind of success in the playoffs or regardless that he stays a Carolina Hurricane forever because he's such a part of their fabric same Justin Williams there and he's such an incredible coach I mean I'd love to see him get the nod as the uh the uh the Olympic coach as well because the passion that he has but it's it's absolutely incredible and I have I have to make one comment really quick because you would love to record this is my me as a coach because i heard you guys talk about this this event on the bench last night where the coach you know to have the choice to put your top power play out when you're waxing a team and as a coach without mark osborne for the expansion st mike's majors

i was always the coach looking at the other team going, hey, do you really have to put those guys out there? And then I usually have Larry Mavity or Brian Kilroy go, that is our third unit. You guys are just that bad. That's a tough spot. Well, Feuts, we appreciate your time and your insights as always, man. Yeah, we'll get you back on soon.

Thanks so much. Pleasure, guys. Have a great weekend. You too. Mike Fura. All his wonderful coaching and managerial insights. You know, the main takeaway there, Sammy, for you is maybe there's sometimes you get frustrated if you're the expansion team.

Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, I told a story about this last night on Leafs's talk but when i was a kid and watching the london knights come to on sound and daryl uh sorry um them leaving the top power play unit on when they're up 12-4 and cory perry's still coming out over the boards i wasn't too thrilled about that so maybe you had some deep uh deep-seated stuff from that but yeah listen it is what it is i don't think we spent too much time on it already well no part of it he would be saying the context of being venting as an expansion

coach right so you got the worst team by virtue because you're an expansion team and yeah if you're looking at philly you're going you're not an expansion team you should be able to handle it um love the the quick look at carolina like what a team top to bottom just in terms of depth with especially top a, Teravine and, you know, Kock and Niemi's on their fourth line. Jordan Martinuk is a great player in the third line with Seth Jarvis, who I know is a soft spot here, but

you know, do you see this team as an East fave? I picked them to win the Stanley Cup. Did you? And the most underrated general manager is Don Waddell. And Don was brought in, he had a history of the Carmanis family, so he was brought in to facilitate the sale and in doing that tom dundon uh who he he's a hands-on owner whatever it was they developed a good relationship and he asked don to stay on and don wasn't um that wasn't in his plans and one reason ron francis left is because the owner calls you a lot oh you know yeah

and apparently he doesn't mind as long as you call him back but whatever but he calls you a lot and it's so it's not for everybody and and don has developed a great way to deal with uh the owner has got a lot of positives too like i mean it's been a lot of what he's brought there and then also just an underrated hockey guy he was in a bad spot in atlanta he's been an assistant gm in a lot of spots out there and just very quietly like even like at the trade deadline a few years ago brady shea for a first round pick from the rangers you know little things that way and and getting guys to understand in some cases making it a making carolina a destination franchise now sure that's That's huge. Yes. That's huge. The analytics side of it too. They have done things differently.

Like Tulsky is an analytics guy, is an assistant GM. He hired Ellen Etchingham, who I once hired as a freelance writer, as a scout. Like they will try to do things differently and explore all options. So a big thanks to Mike Fuda for his time. When we come back after this break, we will still have Gord Stellick. Yes. And we will talk with Doug McClain. Looking we come back after this break, we will still have Gord Stellick. Yes. And we will talk with Doug McClain. Looking forward to it after this.

We'll be right back.