Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Questions & Concerns

Episode Date: January 17, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the Leafs' 4-2 loss to the Oilers last night, the Leafs' passing flaws, how much of the defensive lapses are personnel-based, Keefe's lack of trust in the team and Marner's post-game comments. Then, concern levels rising for Brodie on defence and Tavares on offence and if the Leafs should consider moving JT out to the wing. Later, they are joined by Flames forward Nazem Kadri (39:44), who discusses his side's 4-game win streak, how Calgary has bounced back from a rocky start to the season, using trade rumours as motivation them and why players love to beat the Leafs.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

let's welcome everybody in real kipper and born show we are live on sports at 590 sports at 360 and sports at plus from four to six we welcome everybody downloading us welcome everybody on our youtube channel who's watching the leaf edition And we've got a ton to get into Sammy McKee, Justin Bourne got a lot of things on their mind. What happened? Derek Brandeo, Jen Rolnick. We're together for the next two hours.

Just a quick note on top of, of the hour. We're going to welcome in a former Toronto Maple Leaf top of, uh, of the hour, we're going to welcome in a former Toronto Maple Leaf or no, no. Where are you talking about? Do we not have? Yeah.

Cadry Cadry's joining us at 440. That's where I was going. Yeah. We said the top of the hour. That would be at. Oh, I thought we were. Okay. Not the top of the hour at 440,

440. We got Naz Cadry. There you go. Okay. That's just as good. Yeah. Well, it means you got 35 minutes to get any relief thoughts here.

Let's... Okay. I'll go first. You don't want to do Raptors thoughts? Oh, yeah. NBA champion? Spicy? Out the door.

Sad. Sad. It's too bad. Okay. End of an era. Now we'll do Leafs. I don't think Leaf fans care. Okay, I'll go first.

Yeah. Okay. Last night, I had a lot of fun watching. Good game. It had a great vibe to it. It did. Listen, of course we're going to dissect what we saw out there out of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

After all, this is a Leaf edition hour here. But both sides played hard. Yeah. They did. Great crowd, right? Really good energy in the building. And 27 seconds in, Marner and Matthews were just,

they completely set the tone and it really set up the rest of the night. A fantastic goal. And, and you know fantastic pass it was unbelievable pass through the seam you know and uh mcdavid i thought really played well for a guy who didn't have 10 points you know like he was uh what do you finish with an assist i get an assist on the night but you know he was he created a lot uh was on some almost highlights and just yeah just generally the best players were very good fun hockey game um and then yeah uh do you care sammy does leaf nation care about the fact that justin and i were entertained

last night what are we doing here that's what we're doing i just dropped my phone sorry um no i love the past that love the game love the game said so much on least talk last night thought it was an excellent game wish these two teams got to play more specifically in that building it just feels like the least western road trip is really special for all the fans out there that get to do it the one night a year it's a clear event like the goalies go let's go oilers let's go go leaves go it was loud the entire night and like you said great first shift unbelievable goal by high skill guys leaves were leading and then what happened happened and then we're sitting here now so

love the game no i'm glad you guys said it because i thought it was excellent as well two good teams maybe one better than the. So if we were to kind of compare it to a heavyweight fight, you got two of the biggest heavyweights in the National Hockey League, Matthews versus. Oh, I thought you meant teams. No, Matthews. I just pumped the brakes there, buddy. No, no, no.

Just stay with me here or there. I got you. Matthews versus McDavid set up two heavyweights last night if we're going to stick on the the fighting theme was that just the leafs now throwing punches really early and then leaving themselves exposed at the end yeah to get knocked out well you know it's almost like they tried they started out the fight as mike tyson in his prime and then tried to become floyd mayweather at the end and just play defense you know try to pick apart a team and with with you know tactical play or whatever but um that's not a strength of theirs they can't afford to stop throwing punches and they stopped

throwing punches i had the chances by sport logic they had six grade a or good chance in the first period seven in the second and one in the third they just stopped playing offensively that's which is consistent with the fact that they blow leads at the end whatever team that you see to start is not the same team that finishes correct yeah yeah so what do you uh do we want to talk our opinions or do we want to do the team? I'm kind of more interested in yours than Sheldon's, to be honest. Because, I mean, I don't know how you feel about it, but... Yeah, I think last night was, for me, a little bit...

Well, first of all, I'm glad that the guys tried hard. Yes. Okay, but what is kind of clear more than ever after watching last night a team push hard and give it their the old college try that they're just not quite there and if you would have sat there and said oh that was a lousy effort then you'd be okay how much more let me ask you last night how much more can you squeeze out of that team to be better? It's a great question.

So I think the question you're posing really is, is this a roster issue or a coaching issue? You know, right? Yeah. So I think some. Little from column A, little from column B. I think it is that. It's never as simple as one or the other.

But I do think there's more that can be squeezed out of it. I'll give you sort of my quick diagnosis here that I have an article up on sportsnet.ca. It just came out before we came on the air, so I know you guys haven't had a chance to read it. But one of the things I looked at, I'm just trying to make sense of the idea that when you look at the Leafs' great offensive stats, slot shots and, you know, inner slot shots, chances, all top of the idea that when you look at the the leafs great offensive stats slot shots and you know inner slot shots chances all top of the league and then their ozone possession time is like 24th in the nhl so why are they so good offensively but they spend no time at that end of the rink and it's your diagnosis that they're not a great passing team is the correct diagnosis they are 30 second in ozone successful ozone passes and they are 30 seconds in successful touches in the ozone with like what does a positive play happen or negative play 30 seconds dead last in both categories

okay last so they don't stay on offense right they force everything to the middle which i've said before i have kind of brought this up in the past you have and you guys kind of looked at me like i've got three heads no i argue with matthews can't pass and he can so that i i argue with that all the time but the team itself i never thought of as a bad passing team but everything comes from the middle everything stems from your centerman so i i do point to matthews and tavaris as guys they're not good distributors at the middle of the ice they're not there's no doubt about that and it's and it hurts the ball club i should sorry when i say matthews isn't i don't think he's bad at it and i think you should shoot the puck average and i think given that even like the pass to holmberg he makes the other night, or last night, which, by the way, strips Connor McDavid coming back.

You know, Matthews in the slot makes a great pass. It's still Matthews. I still want him to shoot. You know? I don't disagree with you there, and it's something that we've seen in the past. You're the best shooter on the team. You're in a grade A position.

I hate you. I'm okay with that unless he knows that there's an opening. And he's 90% sure that he can find Marner for a tap-in somewhere. Yeah. And so, to me, that's what happens with the game, why they end up in all of these blown lead games. They end up playing in their own zone because you know why? They force pucks to the middle.

Remember we did the Detroit game and i showed that pack of the least just forcing passes into the middle that's what it is and you end up playing in the d zone against the best offense in the nhl nothing's more abundantly clear on how average of a passing team they are than when you watch mickinnon and ranton or tampa on a power play and it's like boys you're not even close to sharing the puck like that not even remotely and you watch that power play with the amount of talent that they have how many times did we only just catch it and just shoot it with no one no other fakes or screens he's forcing it what is going on there I've never seen the guy Willie just catch it and just shoot it with no other fakes or screens? He was forcing it. What is going on there?

I've never seen the guy just get it and shoot it like this. You don't think we want to move it around a little, make the defense change their shape, make the goalie lose his net a bit? It's just like all bets are off. I'm just going to do what I want to do, and I'm going to try to score myself. That's what I saw last night out of Willie. Yeah. And, you know, Tavares had chances,

but it's kind of the same thing. It's all coming from one spot. So, you know, we're going to talk about the defense because the defense needs work, right? Like there are issues there. But to me, it's that, you know, you're not creating anything offensively and they stop playing. They stop playing and all of a sudden you've got to defend,

and you're playing good teams, and it's in the back of your net. Okay, so to start, a few Kippers Clippers. Do you have stuff from last night? Were you able to get anything? Did he speak today at all? He did talk today. Did you find anything for us today? Did you want to hear that one first, or did you want to talk about the…

Let's go to the overall feel of the game last night from Sheldon okay we'll get the clip one and clip two are definitely must place okay we'll play clip one and then we'll go from there you know and that's that burns here especially in a night like this where i thought our guys played a really good hockey game played very hard um ultimately you know when you're not scoring like we aren't scoring here in this little stretch, you've got to find ways to win 2-1. And that's tough to do, especially this building against that team. But to me, we play a great hockey game. I mean, take charge of the game early in the first period.

Could have had three or four in that first period alone. Now they had their push, and I thought we managed that well through the first. I thought we'd again come out in the second period, have an abundance of scoring chances, and three breakaways through the game, and nothing to show for those. So all of a sudden you've got very little breathing room and margin for error, and the way things are going, you're on the wrong side of it. But very pleased with the effort of the group here tonight,

and we've got to find ways to close these games. Okay, before we go to clip two, that's the second time I've heard Sheldon Keefe say, basically, we can't win 2-1. It's hard to do. He said it against Detroit and he said it last night. And I'm saying

no. No. I get it's hard, but don't tell me. Don't brush it off like it can't be done. All you're telling me now is I don't want to win a game 2-1 i want to win a game 6-5 7-6 i want to get did he say that he said that they struggled that they don't want to win 2-1 not that they don't want to win 2-1 that it's hard

to do and i'm like yeah no kidding yeah all right there's a lot of things that are hard but why don't we why don't you start teaching these guys on how to maybe win a game to one yeah and not keep opening it up many nights is enough to win okay yeah i think i think they've already won around 10 games when they've given up a goal or less. 10. Two's enough. You just haven't taught them how to win the 2-1 games. Or you're not sending that message

because you're too busy going to your stars and pushing them out there to score another goal. And that bothers me a lot. You know, I get that. And I get the idea that idea that yeah you can be a a 2-1 winning team that that's possible but i also think you have to be honest about what you are and who's in your room and what your your dr you know what your team is and i look at that this leaves decor and i go who is a impact player on the back end it's morgan sometimes it's jake mccabe and that's it you know

so i i don't i don't want to play a game where i'm just trapping and whatever i your best bet is you're in the lead offense try to go score again so i i agree see that to me it uh it pigeonholes you like your coach okay you're telling them that our style is whatever it takes to win. That's it. Yeah. Okay? I don't want you to believe that we don't have the players to shut it down for 2-1. I'm going to make you believe that whatever it takes to get the job done over 82 games,

that's what we play 82 games for. Some nights we're going to outshoot them. Some nights we're going to shut it down. Some nights we're going to piss them off. Some nights we're going to whatever it is. That's what 82 games are all about, JB. And to me, if he just wants to keep sending that message out that this is our style, we're going to outskill you,

we're going to make all these great plays. We're going to wait for Austin or Marner to bail us out. The philosophy is all wrong. But the message to me, and I believe the coaches do coach their teams through the media quite a bit. The message to me for this group is that they have to be thinking about playing down there. You you know like rather than just saying okay we're gonna hold off the oilers for a period here you know like at least pushing to

create your own thing and again it's been kind of my theme here is that if you just sit back and say and we're trying to hold this door they're gonna come bursting through it at some point and so you can't stop playing so you can win two one1 but I think you win 2-1 by continuing to play to by pushing on offense and go on the other way but it's okay though to feel like if you're in your own zone you know what the hell you're doing and they don't look like they know what the hell they're doing so in their own zone my the the article today um that I wrote is a breakdown of the game-tying goal, the Oilers score. And yeah, you're right.

The coverage in the D zone is disastrous. Domi is not a great defensive player. He makes a couple of misreads on the game-tying goal. Matthew Nye is, boys, struggle you know so he makes a misread tj brody's not quick enough like there are it's a real issue and i'll give you that that the d zone is uh you know a little scrambly at time but to me a lot of that's personnel too let's hear sheldon keith on the trend of blowing leads well it's it's been like eight days. It's been like eight days.

That's the trend, eight days. I mean, the week before that, we won four in a row, got leads early, took care of them, took care of the game, played mature games against Anaheim and San Jose, played a great game against the LA Kings. That's like a week ago. So my concern in this little stretch four games and whatever it's been seven nights uh eight nights uh yeah i'd like to be on the right side of it but

we can only control what was in front of us here tonight and the guys played a good hockey game and we play that game over um we're gonna score four or five a lot of nights and that you know they're a great team they They're going to get their two or their three, but we'll be waiting this game. Three breakaways, nothing to show for it. A chance to go up 2-0 early doesn't get it. Holmberg gets robbed on a

one-timer. Before you know it, we've got four, five, six goals and some other nights. While the story will be us giving up leads to me the story is more an ability to execute on these scoring chances and grow our lead and pull away and take away the will of the other team sounds like john cooper sounds like a guy that wants to run before he can walk that's what i heard yeah i mean he's he's obsessed with four, five, and six goals. That's all I heard.

Luke, by the way, got him a little hot in the eye. It starts in your own zone, guys. That's where the foundation has to start. You know, but don't you agree that this is personnel-based, like on that back end? Lilligren, Giordano, Benoit, Brody. You know, like what? You can tell the guys all you want.

Like, they don't have guys. They don't have guys right now on the back end. I can't argue that. I think Lilligren played 15 minutes last night, and Benoit played 20. Like, they're playing they're ben was like according to last night ben was your second best defenseman morgan you might i'll give it to benoit i'll give it to mccabe over benoit but yeah

oh listen i i trust benoit more than i trust McCabe. Well, certainly McCabe is. I loved his hit last night. Oh, did he plow him? He plowed him. He saw Hyman set a pick on Mitch and gave him a little extra juice on that one. But, you know, McCabe is more like he's higher event. Things are going to happen both ways. He'll jump on the play.

He'll make some mistakes. He'll take some chances. Yeah. So, you know, everyone's mad at the coach today because they've lost four in a row. It's not going away. The narrative of the easiest fix right now is just get rid of the coach. Right.

Like Ottawa did. Yeah. Or like the team they played last night did. Yep. Sure. It could be either they played last night did. Yep. Sure. It could be their one. So you have to be honest about what you are. Are you the stacked roster Oilers?

Sure. The Wild. How's that going? They're going to fire two coaches this year. Yeah. It's. You know, the Oilers roster was not the Wilds roster or the Sens roster. I'm with you.

So what are the Leafs roster? I'm with you in terms of like, there's no guarantees that you get rid of Sheldon tomorrow and you, I don't even know what they would do. Would they go to Guy Boucher? I would imagine that they would go to Guy Boucher. Here's what kills me about the assistant coach hire. He's on the bench. And what's he holding back?

If he has the answers, let's have them. And I hate the assistant coach. What is your job what is your job i don't know what to do you're just not telling the head coach can i say okay but you can't tell me that gibu she didn't take this job thinking that day if sheldon doesn't get the job done i'm i'm sliding in there i is that good i can't believe that you want I can't believe that conversation ever came up between him and Brendan Shanahan. So for true living right now, I'd say where the blame is being laid, I'd say it's probably 70% Keefe, 30% true living, right? Like I think true living is still kind of flying under the radar, although the signings are not looking great.

Did Fertuzzi put that one in for me last night, by the way? Please, just fire that into the back of the net right you can't miss that no you can't if you if you pull this lever and you pull the fire keef lever and you still aren't that good yeah then immediately all the eyes are on you on who on true living yeah it's like it's not keep going going higher keep going yeah i just it's a big move to make and if you're not sure that this team is it then you're gonna look even worse yeah so great point then you wait that's what i mean then you wait and uh if sheldon feels like eight days ago we were on this winning streak and everything was great then you wait for the cycle to come back with a couple

of wins against calgary and vancouver right but what if they don't what if they don't yeah good question sammy regardless he's coaching the next two games you're you're on this west coast swing here you know but if yeah seattle or three games okay so you you know if you go get roughed up in three straight matches here by the way nazem cadres flames on a four game winning streak yes canucks best team in the nhl good comeback last night and just won eight in a row before the couple of losses i think but yeah um yeah so it is i understand that's the conversation today um you know people are talking about sheldon a little a lot can we play the clip from today

it's the number of i just put it in there darren's number four uh he got asked about this you gotta ask about tj brody and what his play is. And he kind of divulged into a really long answer, but this is kind of the coolest note from it. So if we could play it there, Derek. You know, him and our guys that we need to rely upon in these key moments of closing out games, right? Whether it's Brody that we've come to rely on over the years

or anyone that goes on the ice in those key moments, you know, we need to execute. And some of it is relying upon those who have been here. And then the other part of it, as I'm trying to work through as a coach, is to figure out with all the new players we have, whether it's forward or defense, who are we going to rely on in those moments? Who's going to go out and get the job done?

And despite the fact we're through the halfway point of the season here now, 42 games in, I still have halfway point of the season here now, 42 games in. I still have a lot of questions, quite honestly, about who is going to go out and we can say for certain he's going to get the job done for us. To me, it's a little bit inconsistent throughout the group, and I would put TJ in that category. Wow. So, I mean, that's...

He's not telling anything we don't already know he doesn't know who to trust i don't know who i'm but we don't know who to trust of course we're watching the same game so i don't know a lot there's no there's no surprise in what he's saying we can tell yeah we can tell by the way your team responds by the way you're juggling the lines we we get it sheldon yeah yeah i mean last night you know he is he's made the point that the last two games have not been poorly played games necessarily by the leafs that things just haven't quite gone their way but it does look like playoff hockey to me in the past where the Leafs hit their two goals and get stuck is that against Detroit

they have three against Colorado but against Detroit and here again against Edmonton they get stuck the top guys kind of start to get slowed up and then what do you do after that who protects your leads it's the same problems that they've had um yeah that's it just felt like every playoff game it feels exactly like it where it's coming and i where it's coming well and a big turning point that game too is i thought that the uh oilers really started the physicality they really started turning it up and it felt like at least went away leon's a big they can't they can't compete physically. That's why Sheldon wants to open it up for four, five, or six because they want to out-skill you because there is nothing left for them to beat you with.

Nothing. Well, hey then, if you get sent into a fight with no sword but you've got a slingshot, stand farther back and use the slingshot. That's what they're doing here the only thing missing this past week was someone calling them soft they've resorted back to a soft team last night shout out connor mcdavid last night went out and threw four hits in the first period you know like they had that every time he jumps over the boards he jumps

over like it may be his last shift yeah he's special okay yeah there's no comparing him to anyone did bouchard bury nyes in front of the net yeah i don't know but i'm not gonna sit here and praise bouchard's game last night you would you'd kill him if he was a leafs defender but i got no problem with what you're saying right now yeah but bouchard couldn't even accidentally run into anybody and you're matthew nyes at what 230 yeah what is he a month and a half coming off that fight yeah right remember we talked about him fighting and coming to the rescue of uh domey of domey yeah And I sat here with you guys and I said, okay, that kind of sets him up moving forward here.

And I'm watching him last night and I'm like, I don't even know if he should be in the lineup. I'd scratch him. Okay. I'd give him a night off for sure. Like, you don't have to clear waivers. He should go play a game in the Marlies. What?

Okay. But he's soft now he is a he is he's supposed to be a top six forward this year for you and again too much too soon you know how i feel about that but at the end of the day you've asked him now to be a top six and now you have no place for him in the lineup. He's overwhelmed. He's never played this many games before. And we've heard Sheldon's right. Like, you got to be careful now with Nyes. Really careful.

Because it could go south. He might ask to get sent somewhere else. Listen, he couldn't play last night. Yeah. would you agree with that sammy 100 i thought it was very obvious well the tying goal he's staying there front row seat right and you know what the best part of all this for leafs the leafs brass should be is that there's only two power plays last night one for each team but 56 minutes of five on five i loved love that standard officiating five let them play great flow 56 minutes of five on five. I loved that game. Sender officiating.

Let them play. Great flow. 56 minutes of hockey last night. I loved it. And you got a sense for who could keep up that pace. And I felt like Nye struggled with it. 100% he struggled. You know, and love Gregor.

That guy's a useful hockey player. He can play on the third line. Kelly Yarncroft had a really good night, I thought. You know, there were some good players last night but i do think that you got a sense for there you know you're gonna ask big minutes and eyes if you want to playoffs he's you're counting on the guy yeah is he at least like homework continues really good really really good how did this how did i get the puck out twice though in the last year yeah yeah twice in the last year and he's coming up i thought he got put in a bad spot the guy was in the minors okay he's playing on the top line with the two best players in the team you got to

get the puck out there i'm sorry it drove me nuts it's like he had two opportunities puck comes around fire poker he's the biggest body gotta get the puck guy was buried in the minors i know and now you're telling me that you have to do this. They put him on the top line. He's playing two minutes left. It doesn't make you a top line guy because they put you there. The coach thinks he is. It's not. He's still

inexperienced. He's still a guy that's got 50 career games in the NHL, but now you're a number one guy, and you have to get the puck out against one of the hottest teams on the planet. I think to the point, if you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't be in that spot in the lineup, and that's a roster issue.

Yeah, it's a coach issue. It's a manager issue. It's like, come on, guys. Put guys in positions to succeed. There's no other guys to put there. Someone's got coach issue. It's a manager issue. It's like, come on, guys. Put guys in positions to succeed. There's no other guys to put there. Someone's got to play. So why should we expect different results then than what we've seen in the last four games?

Well, I don't think Sammy's out of pocket for saying that a guy who's on the ice for five minutes should get the puck out on the wall. Like, you know, it's the same in the American League or the NHL. But I know he hasn't been in those spots, and they're asking a lot on the wall. Like, you know, it's the same in the American League or the NHL. But I know he hasn't been in those spots, and they're asking a lot of the guy. The Marner stuff. People mad about Marner. Why?

About what he said after the game. What did he say? You didn't hear it? You didn't see it? Well, I read some quotes. Let's have it. Do you want to hear it? You want to hear it?

It's the Marner clip number one. What gives you encouragement that you guys can get back on the right track here after four losses? Because we're a great hockey team. And we've got to ignore what everyone else says. We know we're a great hockey team. We show it every night. I mean, these last four games that we've had leads.

We've played some awesome hockey, some great hockey. You know, like I just said, stuff goes your way sometimes, stuff doesn't. So for us, we just can't get frustrated at each other. We know we're doing the right things. We're talking a lot, communicating well on the ice, off the ice, and it's going to come. So stay patient with it. Don't let anything outside of us frustrate us or get us angry. Just got to do what we do.

Yeah, for me, listen, you guys know I'm like the kid from day one. I didn't like that at all. What's the problem? Well, first of all, I think he he's wrong they're not a great team but you got no problem first and foremost i don't agree with them yeah that we do not agree that they are a great team i just you can't watch what we watched the last four games and i don't know what the numbers are in terms of like where they are now regulation or how many wins that they've had over 15 games now uh and the majority

of them coming over uh what anaheim and san jose but like i would have preferred some more humility in his comments you know i i got no problem with the guy saying, you know, he doesn't have to give an answer that means anything aside from we're a pretty good team. We believe in ourselves. I get that. I get that. Put it in your article.

I get that. But I think people, if he, and this isn't just Marner, this is any star, the general consensus is when teams struggle and your stars come out and you say and they say it's not good enough i need to be better yeah you win a ton of people over yeah you know what it kind of reminds me of actually to come to your side a little bit is when leafs were good jo Joe Thornton's on the team, team meeting, Amazon series, and Keefe says... That got us through our first month of the show.

I know. We got some problems with the way we're playing, and Thornton says, what do you mean? We're in first place. We're fine. And they're not fine. And they're not fine. And they're not a great team.

Right. You know, they do great things. They create offense like no other team. Up there with Avalanche and Edmonton. Doesn't matter. It's a piece to build on. You know, you can't take the Minnesota Wild and build on to it. I'm not sure.

They've got a piece. I'm not sure you can build off of three guys making great individual efforts. I don't. And Matthews may continue to score 70 goals and it won't matter. Unless. I heard Versteeg on Bunkers' show today talking about this and it was a great interview.

If you want to go check it out. But he talked about how when Quenville came in there and I think it was five or six games into the season it was a different situation clearly than this one. And one of the first things he said to them is like tell the media that you screwed up

and like you're not feeling great about it and like you're going to be better and you're you apologize and yeah it's like they could use a little of that yeah i'd fight my mom to win another they could use a little like hey sorry yeah we're not sammy the words humility that's what i mean but like you know just just take it and don't be like, we're great. You guys are right. People want answers. Fans today want answers. But Sheldon never really, it's kind of from Sheldon.

The way he talks too, it's like, wow, we're going to come out of this. We're going to come out of this. It's like he doesn't, it seems like it's a team-wide thing. I agree with that, Sammy. I think he sets the tone. He's downplaying right now. For sure. The sense of urgency to to win games i also think when one thing he does particularly well in my opinion is is teasing out the process

and results thing right now the results suck and the results have been bad and so everyone's whatever do you think that they've played bad hockey the last couple games? I think when the game's on the line and they need to count on each other the most, they've played bad hockey. That's what I want to hear out of him. That's the piece. It's fine if he wants to say, I like a lot of what's happening here, whatever. But you've got to take a piece of it when you're losing this much and say,

here's our issue. There's got to be something. Every team in the NHL has good stretches of hockey in every hockey game they play. That's a great point. The San Jose Sharks have had to be like, wow, we were really good for those 10 minutes. But when the game is on, the last 10 is the most important when it's tied.

When the game is on the line, where are you guys? That's all. As a team, that McLeod goal. There's four guys on the other side watching. And then Matthews is in front of the net and he tries to. He's the only guy with a guy.

Barely. Yeah. And then at the end, he doesn't really have a guy because McDavid's completely screening Jones. And he tries a kick save, I think, at the end. That's that one, though. That is two-minute shift. Riley iced it when he shouldn't have

and just had a kind of desperation. Guys are running around tired. You know, it's accumulation because Holmberg wouldn't get it out. It's an accumulated goal, that one. What do you want to do, go to break? Yeah, we'll hit a break and then come back with Naz. Okay.

Plenty more on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Just getting started. Don't go away. Everything Raptors before and after the games, the Raptor show with will Lou subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back into the Real Kipper and Bourne show as we await Nazem Kadri

who the Leafs prepare, get ready to go into Calgary but we'll get into that when he joins up. I know we talked briefly about the Leaf defense, but where's your level of concern with a guy like TJ Brody? Yeah, so super high.

Watching. Super high. Agree. Watching Hyman blow his doors off for a disallowed goal. Love the outside review there. Great review. Love that review. Okay, what a goal, by the way.

I don't want a poster. Unbelievable. Edge work. Strength. Yeah, he's had six disallowed goals as an oiler, which is wild to me. You know what that is? He's on the goalie's head for a lot of goals.

Yeah. Boys, TJ Brody looks to me like he's burnt out. Yeah, I had the same thought. You know, earlier in the year, I wrote an article about how his gaps have gotten a lot worse. It just, every time... There is no sense of urgency in his game.

Right, even getting back on the game-tying goal there on Ryan, he's just kind of, you know, I'll get there when I get there, and that's not gonna work like they count on him to play top minutes against tough matchups teams are eating him up on the forecheck they just it's into his corner and he's it's it's not pretty yeah and he's a guy we never spent time any talking ever talking about he's been a tentpole for them you just could count on him he was hyman on defense basically where he's like yeah he does his job we count on him whatever and yeah with him struggling and you can't fix it by the way he has

to maybe unless you like rest him or something but you're not trading them a level of concern for john tavaris as equal as tj brody you know i thought he had some moments last night yeah like last night he he had the puck around the crease a few times or whatever but i thought he had some moments last night yeah like last night he he had not the puck around the crease a few times or whatever but i mean he has not produced you're not paying 11 million for moments no is it i am concerned about the one thing that i think it's been noticeable at least this week is uh the foot speed guys for me anyways yeah i'm not gonna argue you know you just played colorado detroit edmonton three really fast teams and you know you expect to see that in the playoffs and yeah i thought he struggled there a bit in general my biggest takeaway after watching them play non sharks and

ducks is that they're looking pretty slow yeah like there's a lot of teams that just feels like they're getting blown by a lot. And I don't know if that's, I don't know how you quantify that. You probably look that up with your fancy little machine over there. I got no answers there. But it just feels. I'm not sure if starting Tavares at center tomorrow night's the easy answer. I think Sheldon's got to start thinking about protecting him a little bit,

possibly moving him to the wing. Really? Wow. Oh, we're that part of the season. Yeah, for me anyways. So then, I mean, who are you going to replace him with? Who are you going to put in the middle? Well, Pontus will go back.

Pontus has been playing center. Domi? Domi on the second line. Domi second line center? Yep. Boy, you know, I have not liked the way he's made decisions in the offensive zone. He throws pucks away quick for me. I understand he's a talented kid, and he can play.

But, yeah, are you going to get more there from Domi than DeVarez? I don't know. Yeah. Better skater, no question. Sure. Quicker. skater no question sure it's quicker yeah and yeah there's there's you know a level of concern on on a lot of guys but i don't know going in again do you want to try nice gotta be willie gotta be willie nice tavaris and we have a nice long look at it. They're going to have a nice long look. Willie at center. We back.

That's an option, but I think he's got to get the bingle bangle balls back out. There is a potential that whoever, if there's a new coach that comes in, the first thing they do is make Willie center. Is make Willie center. Yeah. And you're all like, oh, yeah.

And it's like, you get the best out of them. And it's like, that was a galvanizing moment. Like you can you can write the article now yeah get that one ready in your drafts we're moving tavarez to wing willie's gonna play center you could just i can i could see it happening but anyways still waiting on nazi or anything there's not a lot of guys who defend as a priority you know like i think okay willie is he gonna play d in his own zone not sure tavara's not a strength of his right coming back into his own zone domi not really his thing playing d in his own zone that's what championship teams do defend in their own zone yeah correct yeah so this is a lost cause now not a lost cause i mean i don't think jack eichel is a defensive

wizard or anything you can feel kessel on a stanley cup you can have guys that don't defend as a priority and win i know but but jack eichel's and the phil kessels of the world are surrounded by good players when you have jack eichel leading you in buffalo and when you have sure kessel leading in toronto and mitch and mor, they're no good. All right, let's welcome in Nazem Kadri, Calgary Flames, as they await the Toronto Maple Leafs. Thanks for joining us, man. How are you?

Yeah, anytime, Nazem. Good. How are you guys doing? We're good. Just, you know, unlike the Leafs, tomorrow night you come in with a little momentum, overtime win against Arizona. The overall feeling, Naz, for you, your hockey club,

and where you're at right now. Yeah, it's been good. It's definitely been good, you know, recently, obviously. You know, the dads got us going a little bit, I think, and, you know, kind of generated some momentum for us. And, you know, it's always fun hockey when you're getting Ws and playing the way we're playing. So we're going to look to, you know, kind of generated some momentum for us. And, you know, it's always fun hockey when you're getting Ws and playing the way we're playing. So we're going to look to, you know, build on that. Yeah, 10 points in the month of January.

How many long, eight or nine game points streak? You know, what's changed for you guys? There was a point early in the season where it felt like catastrophe was looming, but you guys have really found your stride here. I think we've battled. And, you know, that's a great quality to have. You know, being down but not out. You know, I think, you know, lots of third-period comebacks this year

and just being a resilient group and just having that belief and that trust that, you know, we can get the job done. If we're all playing together, I think, you know, we could be a playoff-type caliber team a team that's uh hard to beat so you know it's it's a as you know hockey's a confidence and momentum thing and right now we're riding that wave we're talking to nasm cadre of the calgary flame so so just to touch on that a little bit uh no doubt that everybody's well aware of who needs a new contract, who doesn't, who's potentially on the trading block, who isn't.

Has this been, Naz, for you guys in that room, a bit of a rallying where you guys kind of galvanize or come together and say, hey, let's give them every reason not to trade us? Have those conversations gone on earlier? Yeah, exactly, Kipper. I you uh you're bang on there i think uh you know just kind of having that uh underdog mentality and and uh you know understanding that you know it's kind of us against the world type type feeling where um you know people don't really give you much of a chance and you want to throw that back in their face.

So for us, I think in the dressing room we've been pretty focused and, of course, there's, you know, looming contracts and this and that. But, you know, when it comes to preparing for games, I think we're doing it all together. And, you know, it's a scary team when that happens. All right, Naz, I've got to ask you a question from our producer here. He's convinced. You've obviously played for the Toronto Maple Leafs.

You've played in Colorado and Calgary now. And you've seen kind of both sides of things. He's convinced that players care more about beating the Leafs. Is there anything to that? You know what? That's absolutely factual. Right on. I honestly did not realize

that until I kind of moved out of the Toronto bubble, but everyone's gunning for the Leafs. I mean, that's such a historic and terrific franchise with a lot of great history. I don't know.

It's just a little extra incentive, especially for myself. Being a former Maple Leaf, I think you always have this game, these couple games circled on your calendar, and always, especially when you're rolling through Toronto. So, yeah, I guess that'd be pretty accurate now as uh the leafs are coming in with a losing streak uh over the your career you had a few of those here in toronto but uh the overall sense on on how to handle the media in a canadian city when things aren't going well and i know you've had some instances in Calgary there.

Has your experience as a Maple Leaf been very helpful for you now at this stage of your career when there is a lot of outside noise? Absolutely. I mean, I think it just kind of teaches you how to handle that adversity. And, you know, sometimes it can be tough to do, but, you know, having that experience always helps. But, you know, things can change a lot in this sport, you know, from week to week.

You know, all of a sudden you're a hero to an absolute flop in the matter of, you know, three days. So things can snowball on you quickly, but we obviously respect the team we're playing, and we've got to be ready to go. We're going to let you go as you prepare for the Leafs. Can you kind of take it easy on them a little bit?

Our show needs a break. Our show really could use a night off. I can't promise anything. We understand. Thanks for doing this, pal appreciate it thanks man all right no problem as he now some cadre uh almost uh creeping up towards a point of game 36 and 44 games played yeah i actually had it wrong sorry kip he's got 10 points in his last seven game humming yeah should have been on leaf for his whole life. Yeah, probably.

Breaks my heart. That was a tough one in retrospect. Yeah. Not many guys. I mean, I shouldn't say in retrospect. That was a tough one at the time. Not many. Yeah, and it was just a horrible trade that people tried to defend.

And it's just like, oh, he was too passionate. Cared too much. Better trade him. Going into tomorrow. Everything's great. Everything's great everything's great yeah going in tomorrow and when cadre's breaking down the wing who does he see in that jones no it's it's samson it's sammy time it's sammy yeah see i'm i've been so wrong jones was really good wasn't

he hated that dry side can i tell you something yeah I'm telling you. I could have put the pads on last night, and I'm stopping that backhand from dry sidle. Yeah. Okay, that was a horrific goal to give up. I never know how to evaluate a goalie performance when they're so good, and then you give up one of those. It's like he was really good. And I'm just tipping my hat to him for holding the fort all this time yeah and

and he was good he made some great saves last night but you cannot give up that backhand no no it was just standing like outside of the net i know really bad and you know what's funny is it was a really tough sort out for the leafs on the back check like mccabe had been in deep and they they made good reads and they sorted it out great and Tavares went to the right guy. Should have been the goalie catching it like this. Still shot it in the net. Should have been a caught. Caught.

Play over. I've made a huge mistake. Dreisaitl's playing last night with Fogle and McLeod. I like that McLeod. Looked good. Yeah. Not even just on the game win. Anybody can look good when they're all by themselves in front of the net.

Not just on the winner. He was noticeably good. I know. I know. But I've said this about Matthews. I think Matthews should drive a line alone. If you're so thin, you know, go ahead and give him Yarncroft and Holmberg. I think he can do it

does he want to though I don't care he's getting paid however much a year all these guys don't get to make the choice anymore they got everything they've ever wanted I'm going to do a read from February 1st through the 3rd All Stars are in Toronto for the NHL All Star Weekend

we'll be giving away tickets to the different events and episodes today until January 26th today we in Toronto for the NHL All-Star Weekend. We'll be giving away tickets to the different events and episodes today until January 26th. Today we have tickets for the NHL All-Star Thursday, which includes a PWHL 3-on-3 showcase, the NHL All-Star Player Drop, plus a tribute to the 1967 Leafs. To enter for your chance to win, text today's code word SHOWCASE to 59590, and we have another code word in tomorrow's episode, this time for Friday's NHL All-Star Skills Competition. So be sure to tune in.

Today's code word, again, is showcase, fellas. And how about me being right about Kadri? What is that? Everybody cares more about playing the Leafs. Yeah, yeah. It's factual. Look at you. I knew.

It's like you gave birth. I knew. I was so happy. Look at that look on your face right now. So happy you asked. Thank you. You're welcome. It's like you gave birth. I knew. I was so happy. I get that look on your face right now. So happy you asked. Thank you. You're welcome. It's a good question.

Also, for the All-Star Game, we're going to be there. We're going to be there on Friday. People want to say hello, right? Yeah, we're allowed to say hello or do we have security? Where are we? What is it? Under the Gardner Expressway. I told you already.

We don't know where to tell you to go yet. We're going to be there. We're going to be live from the ferry docks. Oh, I can't wait. It's like a little road trip for the real Kipper and Borges. Three years, our first one. Looking forward to it. Nobody will care we're there.

We'll be second-rate citizens. Your fans will. All right, anything else on your plate, leaf-wise? That's tiring. It's so much. Tiring when they suck. It's tiring. Well, they didn't really suck last night.

They just... I think Ruby's at home putting voodoo dolls in Keith. All right. We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, Jason Bukala, former NHL scout, does a terrific job for us here on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show, sportsnet.ca. He's going to join us, and we'll get into more coaching and what a potential move could do to jolt a hockey club.

Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, and Sammy McKee. More Real Kipper after the break.