Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Rallying Back Against the Bruins

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Gord Stellick and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 5-4 overtime win over the Boston Bruins after trailing 3-0. They discuss the Leafs' slow start, Anthony Stolarz keeping the team alive, the plan for a suddenly surging Nick Robertson, Mitch Marner building off 4 Nations momentum and Auston Matthews' 'tired' play. Later, sports orthopedic surgeon Dr. Jason Smith (36:05) checks in on Chris Tanev's shoulder injury, the worst and best cases in terms of severity, and the implications of Craig Berube's diagnosis of 'day-to-day.' Finally, they discuss Kyp's latest trade board and the Leafs' potential interest in Mikko Rantanen.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Right back at it on the Real Kipper and Bourne show. Welcome into our Leaf Hour edition of our program. Nick Kiprio, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jake Schulz. And for the second consecutive day, let's welcome in Gordon Stelick in for the vacationing. Justin Bourne and looking mighty, mighty go well good to be back, you know, so I was kind of casual yesterday tonight the longest-running Sports media dinner, I believe in Toronto. Anyway, the cons my sports celebrity dinner. So it benefits Easter Seals kids and We've got Scott Morris and Nelson Millman Christine Simpson like a lot of a lot of alumnus from here We're a part of it lot of alumnus from here

We're a part of it. So anyway, Stammy's gonna be down there late. You've been there the odd time, right? I have I've done a few I've done a few over my career. You've been a head take you should be a head table Yes, I've been I've been on the head table. Did I interview you? I think you did I did I did I that ask good questions? No, okay No, I actually ask you to repeat it cuz I didn't understand it So far so far just me and Andy Brickley What'd you say again Well, listen if we can't have Justin born here you are probably third or fourth. I know choice Two and three couldn't make it but you know thanks for coming. Well like

I said when you would join us on like Landry and Stelick in the morning or whatever we were, when I was on vacation you want to get somebody not too good and not too bad. So I think I think I fit the bill. Last night the Toronto Maple Leafs kind of fit that bill not too good not too bad But ended up being just right with a Mitch Marner overtime goal the Leafs rally late to defeat the Boston Bruins and I think we got a little bit of everything out of this hockey game. Unfortunately maybe a couple of injuries as well in about 40 minutes will welcome in our our

orthopedic surgeon to the pros exclusively on Real Kipren born Dr. Jason Smith. Dr. Dr. Dr. Dr. He's a real doctor. Yeah, and we'll get his thoughts on Dr. Dr. Dr. And on Chris Tannov, who was lost real early in this hockey game and Made it real taxing on five other guys, but give the Leafs credit. They found a way Well, you know was weren't they weren't they up by three game seven way back when in that very building, right? And so it's kind of nice not so much poetic justice But just yet this going the Leafs way on a weaker Boston team. But Kipper, yesterday, I think we were talking about an off air, we're just talking about, okay. I think on air too.

On air too, well yeah, we had two hours to talk. If they dropped, if something, lo and behold, happened to Chris Tanev. Exactly, just about, you know, just the depth needed on D. That first goal was so bizarre. First of all, people David Pasternak. And I don't know, McCabe did kind of a dive which kind of walked Tanev and then all of a sudden Pasternak's got that goal and then the next shift is when on kind of an

innocent looking play which quite often injuries happen, all of a sudden Tanev's out of the game and then at the end of the game I never really saw what happened to William Nylander. Boston lost Trent Frederick which is it I mean that's significant because he's a he's a bona fide trade deadline Guy they're looking to sell, you know much like Yanni Gord's been out in Seattle for a while So you're wondering will he be healthy in and around the trade deadline? But I give him to come back from a three-goal deficit and Mitch Marner scoring the big gold again Okay, so I I hope these are all positives when when it leads into the playoffs

I mean, they can't be anything but positives. All of a sudden, Mitch Marner just excellent at TD Garden. What a turn of events. A week before that, he's setting up one of the bigger goals in Canadian recent memory. And then he goes there and he has two goals, including a beautiful overtime winner. He's flipping the script, bud. Is that your way of saying like this would be a good time to play the Boston Bruins now in the first round?

I didn't probably still find a way to lose to them. I don't know how. Maybe not after watching them last night. Yeah, I think the one of the bigger takeaways we could talk about a little bit amongst the three of us is that's a brutal loss for the Bruins. Like that, the way they finding a way to lose that game, especially after how the Leafs looked, that's a brutal loss for the Bruins. Like that, the way they, finding a way to lose that game, especially after how the Leafs looked, that's a brutal loss for them. Let's go to Craig Berube on our first Kippers Clipper

of the day on his overview of the game, and then we'll get into those details, Sammy, out of Chief. Yeah, it was a great character win. I thought their guys pushed in the second, pushed in the third, and, you know, did what we had to do in the OT. But you know, we were aggressive in those two periods. Like we wanted to start the game that way, but we didn't.

But they did a great job of battling back and our goalie made some big saves for us. We didn't. I like, first of all, Sam, I hope there's more than three people talking about this. and our goalie made some big saves for us. We didn't. I like, first of all, Sam, I hope there's more than three people talking about this. I hope we have like listeners and viewers on top of the three of us, otherwise we might as well shut it down. Isn't this different than Mike Babcock?

Remember Mike Babcock's sermons from the Mount? Every post game it went like nine million directions and this is the way it is and you talk about. Sheldon was much different, too Yeah, yeah, so this is this is plain English and Hey, I I think he his sound bites Ruby sound bites are no different the way He coaches and the way he played it's like straight lines short and sweet simple If you have something to say, get to it.

End of story, that's it. End of story. That's what it's all about too. Yeah. Right? Yeah, get it done, get it done. And it's, yeah. So, there was a part of me that watched Pastor Nat go in

there and bury that first goal, and I'm like, well that alone had a different feel for Stolarz last night, right? Yeah, where it's like He's down that early. I can't recall another game where it's like first shot on goal basically and the Leafs are down Usually stole ours would have found a way to make that save and I'm like, maybe this is the off night we've almost been waiting for on stole ours all season long and Even though they dug themselves in that hole it wasn't It's always that that that next one that goalies cannot give up that will

Yeah, give your your team that the no hope put it that way and he was Unbelievable and yet we say it again, that Marner doesn't have a chance to do what he did at the end of the game without Stoller's like doing what he did last night. Another game where you can argue that the Leafs had every reason to lose that game. Well, that's saving overtime

when he was being run over and Boston's all over them and it leads to that goal. You know, the good part was coming back because that Pasternak thing is kind of a nightmare visual because that's how the season ended last year. That it seemed like a harmless face off and then all of a sudden, guys, the sea parted and he put the overtime goal in

where last night the Leafs had the pressure early on and then son of a gun, there's Pasternak, sprung free, the one guy puts it in and then what the yeah after that that's the key You're right about the goaltender. Just keeping wits about it It's like a great starting pitching baseball that gets rocked a little bit early and Characteristically, but all of a sudden goes in and gives you the good six or seven innings and lets you get back in the game And certainly that's what stole ours did we joked a little bit about it on least talk after that You know, I hate to do it, but you know Sam Sanoff's and net in the game and certainly that's what Stolars did. We joked a little bit about it on Leastalk after that.

I hate to do it, but Samsonov's and Net, that's a five nothing first period. But I don't even know if you just have to go to Samsonov. A lot of goalies. He's gone now. You're still dumping on Samsonov. I do dump on him quite a bit, I feel badly. But.

Gord, a lot of years of just that bad type of inconsistent goal-turning. No question. No question. It's not just Samsonov. A lot of goal consistent goal. No question. It's not just a lot of goalies around the league. That is a three or four maybe five nothing first period. They were all over the Leafs and even at the end of that period was it geeky that the puck fell on his stick and he stretches across and makes those two unbelievable saves. Yeah, like I can't say enough great things about Stolaars.

It's just the only question is health and he missed some time already and he's looking really good. He's jumping around. He battles. Like it's just, it's a really, really appealing style of hockey to watch for him. He's been great.

And depth scoring Kipper and Sammy, you know, again, you know, you got Robertson, you got Holmberg, you know. It's funny, they were kind of on there by default because the line stayed out so long right at the end But they got it done with the goaltender put like a bit's about it's what the Red Wings are doing right now finding ways to win right and it's been an interesting collection of games since the Since the break the way the Leafs have won different types of games big lead over Carolina Hang on for dear life at the end game against Chicago

Gotta beat him. you beat them. Last night, the reverse, you fall behind, you find a way to come back. From Gord Stellic to the head coach, Craig Bruby on Robertson and Holmberg. Clip three. Clip three. He's scoring right now and he's working and competing

and he's confident, right? Gives you confidence, same as Homer. So great job by those guys. The other guys were out there, got tired, good change by those guys. Not overextending it. The other unit went out and got the job done. I thought though in the third that we did a lot of that. Good changes from the offensive zone and getting fresh guys out there and rolling them

and guys did a good job of that. The assumption probably majority of the season is like find a trade partner for Nick Robertson. And I don't know if he couldn't or he did and the deal wasn't to his satisfaction, but somehow someway, Nick's put himself in a position to be hanging around and it just seems like right now,

there's a sweet spot right now for him. And what do you do now, Gord? Do you let this thing ride out? Is he a guy that you envision that can contribute in the playoffs? Or if you find something, you move off of them? Because it's funny last year Bobby McMahon kind of took that sweet spot away from him Robertson played more games than I really thought he got more goals than I thought it was he did better than people think

But to answer your question, I like I can't see teams come a-calling for Nick Robertson Okay because that's the kind of thing like say in in the off season, for argument's sake, the Chicago Blackhawks, or you know, Anaheim or San Jose, I mean the teams that are looking to rebuild are looking at that kind of addition. So I think Nick Robertson stays,

and like everybody, see what they can do in the playoffs, and if you have a big playoff, that really elevates your stature within the team. If you have yet another disappointment, well then once again, everything's up. But I think he's a guy that I can't see a market out there for him on a trade deadline deal. So he's ours, yours, Leafs for better for worse, for richer for poorer. I think it's-

He's sick to send in health. I think it's a tough one though. Death to his part? No, not anymore. Don't you think it's a tough a tough Spot that they're in here because this is exactly what you would have wanted from him all year and I don't think he's had stretches like this coming out of the break the three games that he's played he's been really really good and Dave

desperately needed depth scoring for how long on this team and You know, we've been tricked by Roberts in the past where he's had great pre-seasons, he's had good stretches where you're like, well, you know, they're finally getting what you need from him, but I'm caught on both sides of this conversation. Like, you know, is he more likely to have some value right this second than he ever has?

Kipper, probably. Like if you send a pro scout out to follow the Leafs after the Four Nations break and you've watched these three games You could probably trick yourself into thinking that he's a contributor and could be part of a package for something. No Yes, but what kind of package around the trade deadline there aren't these packages? Yeah, there are packages The package is I get what you're saying. Well, they come from San Jose to Dallas I mean, that's the thing Grandland and and CC if there's

If there's a middle team that needs to either take on a little bit of salary or another contract Then these type of guys can get thrown in in any scenario from here on in I want this piece But I can't get this piece unless I get rid of this guy or this guy. And it's like, okay, I'll take them. That's the scenario that you still picture if Nick ends up being part of a trade. Right. Other than that, there's not a contending team right now going, we gotta get Nick Robertson.

No, exactly. So that's not in the equation. And if there's a lesser team out there That's missing the playoffs that would like to take a flyer on him go get them in the summer You don't have to go get them now Well, that's what I mean and then and also about like hey like like all these particular variables in the playoffs like if one or two can pop Nick Robertson could be one of them that all some become Difference makers and hopefully going and you know again, it's funny because Jordan Binnington, what he did

and a lot of people said, well, yeah, six years ago was a long time. Game seven against St. Louis. Well, he showed that six years ago he could still do it in 2025 come up with the big game. And that's where in some ways they go, well, 2019 was a long time for Craig Barube. I know that was six years ago when they won the cup. But that year, I always think about 15 different forwards used in the 12 spots. And it just seemed to be a way somebody came in for a couple of games and was the right spice there, you know, and it's it's an it you did it in New York

with the Rangers like a lot of different you were part of it like a lot of different pieces that went in and out. Maybe sometimes it's a little bit luck, whatever, but other about that. And so having all hands on deck for the Blues that year, one in the cup, and I could see that being a way you're going to go. Like they can't do a Philadelphia Calgary trade, right?

I mean, that was a real hockey trade, what the Flyers and the Flames did. But I don't think Nick, like I don't think the Leafs are looking at that right now about just doing like kind of a couple of players trades. Just speaking of Jordan Bennington, he is on my latest edition, trade board 4.0 sportsnet.ca sportsnet.ca go to the lies and read Kipper. I was just turning pages this morning for the latest.

And we'll get into it a little bit more in our national hour when we welcome in former NHL player agent, Manager Brian Lawton. So stick around for that as well. I just wanted to the Nick Robertson continued conversation. I will say that last night is probably the most impressive been with him in his like least career. Maybe I truly I'm trying to think of a game where he had as much impact as he did last night. It's not just a goal though. When the puck crosses the line, it gets the most attention. He's actually played with a lot of fire

and he's played with a lot of competitiveness and Barube's been saying that all year long and yeah, there's times when he's not in the lineup but for the most part when he's been in it, he's got energy. He's got energy, and he has been noticeable with the exception of shooting it in the net now that it's going in.

Guys like you notice him. I love Sammy's best game ever. Sammy's got a lot of best games ever, which is great. He's got a short memory though. I mean, I'm trying to think of a game where Nick Robertson was as engaged physically, best games ever, which is great. It's got a short memory though. No, I mean, but try to think of a game where Nick Robertson was as engaged physically, makes that play where he beats a guy that's twice his half,

sorry, twice his half, twice his size along the sideboards to set up a game-tying goal, he's whacking it, swaying in, he's getting engaged physically. That's a guy playing with a ton of confidence, and I can't remember him looking as good as he did last night No, we watched a lot of games marks. He was really good So I ever said to me a bit we'd be a good example in all seriousness about times when you felt really confident

Yeah, and times when you said geez every game. I'm going out and I'm nervous I'm gonna be a healthy scratch next game and the difference it makes and I think to Sammy's point that Nick's got a little that mojo back about all of a sudden that every shift is not like I'm on probation again Versus okay, I got a chance to kind of take a little bit of a run at this It could have been him chat me up at the casino night charity event Three or four weeks ago, I think it might have been a turning point for him It was it was for me. I wasn't there. But yeah. And for Sammy to. Yeah, he didn't chat me up.

But no, I just think he's been really good since the break and he's tricking me a bit here if he's not going to continue to play like this. OK, let's let's dive a little deeper into Chris Tanev's injury because Craig Brewery spoke of it last night. Let's go Derek to clip two and then we'll get the latest update from you Sammy today Plays against all the top line shut down You miss a lot of things, you know penalty kill, you know, just all the hard work and gritty stuff he does on the back end and You know leadership. There's a lot of stuff you miss just like, you know, you know, he's a very important player for us. Sure is, man.

And Craig today at practice said they got good news on Tanev and he is day to day. Wow. Uh-oh. But not expected to play against. The dreaded day to day. I believe he may have said the exact same thing about Anthony Stoller as who missed from mid-December to the start of February. Six weeks.

Yeah. So. Forty-two days. Day to day. Yeah. Technically, it's day to day. So. Matthew's day to day for about four weeks maybe.

Yeah. And Brubay said that Phil Myers will draw in for TANF on Friday. So he's confirmed not playing Friday and they didn't go beyond that. But I guess you have to take him out as That but to please not lying and say that it's it's good news Well, you got some guys like hampus lindo with Boston Andrew cop in Detroit out for the season, right? So that's that's what you hate to hear and yeah, you know, we're we're kind of in Toronto like Florida's talking about the Matthew Kachuk situation like fully expecting it and should be in the playoffs So about getting that particular player 100% for the playoffs is key.

The one thing that kind of worries me is that it's it was a hit that we often see along the boards. It wasn't much. It wasn't much. And that's the only thing that kind of you're you might be a little concerned about because this guy has taken his lumps. There's been a lot of wear and tear on this body. And there are times, you know, when we first heard about the signing of tan of is like, okay, but can he stay healthy? Can he? How often have we seen him over his career come out of a hockey game and sometimes to come back

and sometimes not, but this hit to me wasn't anything that you go, okay, that guy could be hurt. Yeah. Well, but you know, quite often those innocent plays. Yeah, no, no, no, for sure. Are, yeah, I don't know Yeah, I don't know what I don't know. I don't know the exact application of the word injury prone nowadays versus injury being harder, being part of the game. And also when you play like Chris Tanev,

that's part of the game. You talk about an honest guy, a physical guy, you know. So we keep adding the proviso. It's understood about staying healthy. We get it. The Ottawa Senators are dealing with it now and if they don't deal with it right now, they're out of the playoffs it now and if they don't deal with it right now they're out of the playoffs today and if they don't deal with it they're gonna be further out of the playoffs. So that ends up you know the best teams overcome the injuries right whatever the injuries may be and so that's gonna be a bit of a challenge. They overcame it when they had a whack of forwards out right they had a whack of forwards that

were out not just Austin Matthews so this on the D part we're gonna we're gonna find out some of the depth of the deep hey Morgan Roddy getting four points last night you know like I he plays a different role than Tana we know that but that's part of it is contributing offense and you know that been not his forte this season but that was a big night for him as well I I think if there if you're picking a time for a guy to get hurt now would be the ideal time if he was gonna miss some before the playoff start, truly. Like, I mean, they're solidly in a playoff spot.

You don't want- For the record, nobody picks a time to be hurt. I understand that, but I'm saying as a fan, if I was gonna pick a time, late Feb, as opposed to April 15th would be the time I would pick. You know when I would be really impressed with that comment if you actually picked it before the guy got hurt not after the guy Got hurt. Well, I wouldn't pick it. I would pick him not to get hurt That was my ideal pick a favor for Friday pick one pick pick

Get hurt Friday. No, I won't do that. Well, they'll come looking for a Monday. I won't do that It happened I think it happened really this year was stole ours never when I said oh I mean you could get hurt tomorrow and he did get hurt the next day. So what? What have we learned anything today about Willie Nylander not finishing the game also for the Toronto May please Ruby didn't go into any specifics. It's from David Alter on Twitter Ruby didn't go into any specifics with Neil and or other than to say there were some contact in the third and they were being Cautious and then he was gonna get a today Get a day off today. Anyway shrugged it off as maintenance. So there was a

Long list of guys absent from practice today dude Panev Riley Matthews Marner Nylandlander all recommend Larson McCabe all right anybody except a guy that Did not finish the game and I think we saw on TV His glove was off some speculated a wrist injury a hand injury Yeah a broken fingernail Well, I keep going back to in the playoffs. We saw Austin Matthews going for goal number 70 then we saw missing games We saw Willie Nylander unexpectedly missing games We saw a different goaltender in game 7 because Joe Wall got hurt in the last second, you know

So so these types of things gonna happen kippy what I got to ask you What a great trip Boston and York like what like normally you don't get those kind of trips like and I in New York? Like normally you don't get those kind of trips. And I know it's not the end of the world if you lose, but there's nothing better than winning and the buzz and the energy when you're on your trip. And you're in two great cities like that. Like this is very unusual. Usually you're in and out in those kind of spots. So never mind about bonding. When you win, bonding comes naturally. If you're losing right now, the Chicago Blackhawks ain't

bonding, okay? Right now, Seattle Seattle ain't bonding Nashville's not bonding This is this is a real nice spot to be right now. Just one more thought on Willie Nylander mmm his head headaches Okay Physical game last night any concern that so you're going back to the playoffs. Yeah, what how can I not it wasn't he wasn't at his wrist that was bugging him I don't know I don't know they didn't say they didn't say so would you with had his glove off would there be any concern at all about yes his head go hearse I I I

didn't see anything specifically happen like you said it was a physical game I didn't see one particular moment where he got jarred or anything, but it's something I think you always have to worry about but if I was going to play fake doctor Even though we have a real doctor coming on today when they showed him on the bench Gloves were off. He was kind of looking down look like his hand was shaking a little bit So maybe it's in his hand or for this reason, but yeah, definitely you have to worry about that and for any fan watched last year, for him just to kind of disappear on you when he was one of their better players down

the stretch, it's something you got to always worry about. So I hope he's all right and plays on Friday night. But, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if maybe miss a game or two. We'll see. So, you know, players like Nolan Patrick never got their careers going right with those kind of injuries. And then with Sidney Crosby seeing him again in an elite game, you know, you're doing hockey DB and you look and you forget, you know, remember how few games he played for two years?

Yes. Remember we thought Sidney Crosby wasn't going to play? Yeah. And that was like 12 years ago, you know, and every case is different. Don't get me wrong. But I'm just saying whether it's Nylander or others, like, you know, really the hope is and there's a very good chance that it becomes one of those things and you're able to hopefully move forward because it's just city played hardly any game yeah you look back in those years

for said not to get too off topic here but yeah he was 41 22 36 those three years and you look at his point total now that probably cost him a chance getting 2,000 points anyways you mentioned Morgan Riley he becomes the third defenseman in Maple Leaf history to record 500 points with the club. You of course know the other two. Boris Somming? Yep.

Yeah. Who's the other one? Thomas. Oh, Caberley. Caberley. The restaurateur. Exactly. He's a good restaurant, but I think he has a couple, right?

Does he have a couple of restaurants or just one? Yeah, I only know the one on Yonge Street. Right, okay. Does he have a couple restaurants or just one? Yeah, I only know the one on Yonge Street. Right. Okay All right. Let's go to Craig Brewery's thoughts on Morgan Riley joining an elite group Yeah, he's been a great player in this league for a long time You know, he made a great play tonight and that Robertson goal, but he made a lot of good plays. He's Like I said, this is going on for a few weeks now where he's way more involved offensively more aggressive, making plays and confidence.

I think so. I remember when we it was really not going well for him. And we had the conversation with you, Borny and I, about what he needed to do to look better. And you said that he would just needed to play faster. Do you think that's what's changed here? Just more decisive, quicker? And why do you like quicker decisions?

Less tentative. I think he's I think he's found his we'll use it against sweet spot right now for for where he needs to be on this team. So sometimes you can overthink, you can overanalyze, you can over worry. And I think he's a little freer in his head right now playing the game. Well, Ruby used that word again, confidence. We were using it for Nick Robertson.

Like you assume just cause someone's been around for so many years that it's an automatic, but you know, you go through ebbs and flows and that could have been a part of it as well. Because yeah, the decisiveness is one thing I notice. Like Drew Dowdy's always decisive, right? He always knows what he's gonna do. I mean, he's just a very confident, decisive guy

and always plays that way. And I think in Morgan Riley, you've said, and I'm glad it was addressed, like hey, it was kind of obvious, right? We've seen the best of Morgan Riley and we've seen when it wasn't the best which was a big chunk of this season and I think again that C-word the confidence is is is another big part. Matthews and Marner. Barube spoke about them after the game I thought it was a pretty interesting

comment and we can talk about it after. Clip 5. Yeah, I mean I think that him and Austin have been a little bit tired for me, but I thought they showed a lot of grit tonight, a lot of determination out of them. Willie too, but Willie's a little more rested, right? But Mitch had a heck of a game. Played a lot of minutes, overplayed him, but killed too many penalties tonight, so he was used on a penalty kill. And I mean, he was an excellent player tonight, I thought. What did Marner finish with?

26 or 27 minutes, Sammy? I'm just quickly pulling it up here. Last night? Like, he was, you can tell a coach can feel a little guilty over doing it You just heard what about that plate on the non goal in overtime? Oh my god, like oh my god The kid up to oh my goodness Tavares Was it? Yeah. Yeah, I mean 2541 last night for my that's huge minutes. Yeah, like it's

It's not even debatable who his most important player is outside of obviously the goalies now. Okay, but let me ask you a question, Kip, you being the professional athlete. So the tired part. So first of all, they'll, you know, obviously they had back to back games on the weekend. This one's a little more breathing room, you know, like a game on a Tuesday and a game on a Friday and a game on a Sunday and no ridiculous travel. And that, I think I said it yesterday as well.

I think in life in general, when we're younger, we got a ton of energy, physical energy. And I just think quite often it's the mental stuff that can get you down. And I think as much, that's why it's good to have off days and whatever, just about like the mental exhaustion, you know, that kind of grind is more than, because you want to play hockey.

Like you're young and you want all the minutes you can and you can actually handle it, right? So, I mean, so the tired part, how would you quantify it? I would quantify it as Craig Bruby throwing it out there and kind of lumping Mitch in it to kind of protect Auston Matthews. Okay, the guy who looks tired.

The guy who really looks like he's not firing on all cylinders. He's not 100%. He looks like, I mean, quite frankly, he looks like half the player he usually does. You know, I couldn't agree more. Oh, come on, half? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, come on. Come on. No, no, no, no, you almost wanted for Team USA. Whatever. It wasn't Gord He can have his moments and he had one last night But he was sucking wind beyond belief last night late in the game

Boston gives him a platter the puck on a platter and he fires it off a crossbar Right now you could have said he could have scored last night and tell me the same thing it was he scored a goal he's great but no gordon you watch him from start to finish i'm just arguing about 50 he looks like really any other forward out there until he finds a way to shoot the puck and that that part can be impressive, but the rest of it, he does not have the power that jump. I go back to no quite I don't argue with that. I'm just saying he's not that Matthew Kachuck or Chris Crider in the final game or team

USA should address Kyle Connor. Like you don't want to end the game and both guys could only play eight minutes and you know aren't whatever. So yeah, he's not I don't know what he had 60% for you 70% like What is it? I should come up with a number of two 70 70 That's what I got in high school the odd 80 the odd 60 I'll go with my high school 55 to 60 that's usually where I was here per sweet spot Would you get in high school?

Yeah, I'm with Sammy. Are you I mean the reason I'm sitting here. I just know I was a You weren't hanging smoking area George van day out there. No Remember they had smoking areas where that's just you and your brother Don't lump me into this. I Just I don't know. It's just a maybe it's the jump Maybe it's the but like when you think about last year, Gord, when he scored almost, he was- Oh, no question.

Unbelievable, and people are saying, people are saying, well, his defensive stuff's really good. Yeah, it used to be that you got both, where he was unbelievably defensively. Could he just be like a little mentally fatigued? Like, could he just have hit a wall a little bit? Like, he's- Don't you get tired of being hurt all the time He's been hurt a lot. I

He said ailments. Yeah, no, no, you know for sure and there's something to be said about this mysterious injury all season long which Until someone tells me differently. I got to think it's a back or lower back which can obviously affect everything you do but like a back or lower back, which can obviously affect everything you do, but there's no spark, there's no jump. There's no, sometimes you watched him at the height of his career and he could have two guys hanging off his back and he won't slow down. Okay, so you and I both write Toronto Star columns. I had an idea too, but you already took it a couple of weeks ago.

So what else? Yeah, you know, whatever. So Dave Washburn got back to me. Don't leave your briefcase around. Nick just wrote about that last week. I said, ah, shoot, I didn't read it. Then I read it after. So anyway, what I had talked about was,

like Wendell Clark was the first guy to go to London, England. I talked about all that thing all those years ago, right? And Lord Thompson set him up with his guy. And now Austin Matthews has gone to Germany. And it's not uncommon nowadays. Like you go, you know, but when you're going out of North side, North America, it kind of raises your eyebrow.

Like, why are you going outside North America? And in Wendell's case, as you remember back then, there was a question, you know, career question was, but it was like two solid seasons at least that he languished. And then he got going. And I don't, you know, so I'm just saying that kind of timeline comparable nowadays,

there's a lot more, hey, there's a lot more available, you know, whatever, but just something there. And if you're going to Germany to try to figure something out, whatever it may be, it's there and it's got to be mentally tiring. It's got, you can't be in 100% shape and all those kinds of things. So I will concur with you on that. But I'll give him better than a 50.

I do think that there's a amongst Lee fans and kind of bubbled up in some of my buddies and on Twitter and other places that like, you know, second guessing the four nations him his involvement him going but I can't like I can't talk it to both sides of my mouth on that one in terms of how much I loved it And how passionate it was and how like how great it was and then you know, Matthew Kachuck can't even play Maca boys out for maybe the year like it's it's hard to second-guess that now But he just doesn't look the same and it sucks. And it just, a short while ago when he was scoring 60 close to 70 goal seasons here. Yeah, well one away, yeah.

There wasn't a shift that he wouldn't come out on where you go, like he could score, he could score. Like there was a, he was a threat. Every shift he went out there, it was like, a goal a game should be easy for this guy the way he plays over 60 minutes. It's not unheard of To score a goal a game and right now he can't what is it 10 games Sammy without shooting it past a goalie He's only got the one empty netter in his last goal was against Columbus Is that correct outside of the empty netter a Columbus? It was that on a goal?

Yeah, I'm trying to think I can't remember What did he end up with last night to two or three shots on goal? He ended up with four shots on four shots on yeah What you're not seeing a hundred percent was like when he gets the puck and first of all he gets the puck And then it's like on a string, on a stick, or it's like he's a lacrosse player. He does that and you go, oh boy, oh boy, he's gonna fire it as better,

than as good as anyone else in the NHL, with the trajectory, the speed, the accuracy, you name it. And that, yeah, that we have not seen this year. But last year, boy oh boy boy every time you got it You can see everyone the heebie-jeebies because like this guy is gonna fire a beauty well You got no choice, but to patiently wait for it to come back Okay, he still got 48 points and 43 games playing at what I in my high school average of 55 60 percent Alright, let's take a quick break when we return dr. Jason Smith and we'll get a little bit more into

shoulder injuries and Again good news out of the leafs. They're going with the day-to-day But we'll get Dr. Jason Smith's thoughts Orthopedic surgeon after the break you're watching and listening to real kipper and born Covering the blue J's from an analytical perspective Welcome back into the Real Kipper and Boran show and at Kipper, Sammy McKee, Gord Stellett, and in the house, Dr. Jason Smith, orthopedic surgeon. Dr. Dr.

Dr. Dr. Dr. Not bad, not bad, not bad. How are you? We've been a while, but guys have been relatively healthy up until last night, Therefore, you know, outside of you may be helping me get Gord Stelick to ask clear, concise questions.

We've got an issue with Chris Tanev and the shoulders. And I think the latest we heard Doc was they think it's day to day, which is must be great news if it think it's day-to-day, which must be great news if it's actually true, but different type of shoulder injuries. I assume that you saw the hit last night on Kristanov. Your first thoughts were a number of different injuries, situations? Yeah, so good to talk about shoulders. I think we were talking about knees so much at the start of the year,

so good to hit on shoulders a little bit here. My first thought on seeing his hit. So he's going in and he hits his right shoulder. So he's right shot defensively, he hits his right shoulder and that shoulder drives into the glass and drives forward. Now kind of three things you think about with that is, one, the shoulder itself, that's pretty common pattern for dislocations.

So a shoulder could have actually subluxed out or popped out and it pops out the front in that position. The second thing you think about, and you see this all the time in hockey players, is AC joint injuries, where your clavicle comes in and attaches to your chromium. So AC joint and you go in any locker room, NHL, minor league, you can see so many guys with these little clavicles that are popped up. You want to see mine right now? Yeah, exactly. I have a grade two you have oh you have you have more of a grade three

So right keep your shirt on buddy. Oh, there we go. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you can see it It's so so how much time do you miss? You know what this was in season ending I had a screw actually put into it like in the mid 80s. Oh, yeah, that's caveman stuff now today, isn't it? Yeah, no, it's all super suture and magic magic potion for sure, man Um, so that's that's kind of thought two and then you thought three you always worry about that same mechanism That's how guys break their clavicle Now if they're calling them day to day, it's not a clavicle injury.

So we're now thinking, you know, AC joint, or maybe did his shoulder kind of shift in and out there. The thing I did notice though, is that when he was skating back to the bench, you know, he was holding his stick in his right hand and he was bending his elbow. That when you dislocate your shoulder, like you don't want to pick that up. Like you're just standing there, that arm's dislocate your shoulder, like you don't wanna pick that up.

Like you're just standing there, that arm's kind of going numb, you're not holding your stick with that arm. You're getting to the bench, but you're not holding anything with it. So if I had to guess on which of those three, I'm saying, you know, maybe a little AC joint injury, or maybe just a little shift in his shoulder

and not a dislocation. And that typically can settle down within seven days. Could we see him back as early as next week? Can it heal that fast? Yeah, so let's talk about AC joints. They can. It's a very stable joint. And if you get one of those little grade ones, I mean, they're sore, but it's pretty stable. It's not like you're risking his career by sending him back early. So it really just depends on how tough is, how tough is this guy and, you know, how soon can he get back. Now, this is as long as it's not popped up and sitting around his ear like yours, you know, if it's just a little separation, grade one, maybe grade two. And, and we rank these like grade ones, yeah, one to two weeks, grade two, two to four weeks, weeks grade three once it's starting to be like yours

You're thinking six weeks or surgery. So grade one. Yeah, you can get back in a week ten days. Sure I don't have the question. So my shoulders fine, but I got a rash that won't go away. Can I get your opinion? No, okay. Anyway the wrong doctor Well, I gotta give it a try, gotta give it a try. So I would think doctor that, okay the fact that Craig Borube comes out today and says day to day that, you know my memory is, there's certain things like they'd say, okay we gotta wait till the swelling goes down and we'll make an assessment and maybe need surgery.

I know, I remember Stewie Gavin early, just whatever, hitting the boards right away, you knew you're gonna need you're gonna need surgery So I mean would that be something? Definitive of that point that if it was that serious they'd be saying this is the deal like or are they waiting a couple days? And it could still be that kind of deal or what he said today is more along the lines of you know You've given your very educated assessment you've given your very educated assessment? Yeah, if he's telling the truth, right? But this is this is t minus eight weeks till playoffs, right? So this is where like this is a big confusion of information going

out there. So, you know, if it was something that was, you know, a six week or more than that, I think they're probably going to still call it day to day. I mean, honestly, my experience listening to these coaches and stuff, divulge stuff leading up to playoffs. That being said, he's been a pretty straightforward, like, guy, you know, up to this point that he hasn't, like, kind of let us astray. So, you know, I think him staying day-to-day, plus with what the injury looked like,

plus him holding a stick and skating to the bench, I'm pretty optimistic for Leaf Nation that it's gonna be a week or two and you're gonna see this guy back, at least practice and hard. Doc, one more for me quickly before we let you go and that's, I know it's a Leaf Edition show, but I wanna ask you about Matthew Kachuk.

We all suspect that some sort of torn groin injury, whether or not we'll see him from the regular season or they go to a long term IR, they go get it, they trade for a guy, whatever the case is. But the difference between a partially torn, a complete tear, like what are the odds of this guy coming back and playing the Leafs in the first round and, or the second round and beating Sam's Leafs? Man, you know, great question.

Like a complete tear is really hard to come back from in six weeks. For a skater, so if that thing's tore off and they're thinking surgery, yeah, you're hoping for next season. So even, you know, a high grade two, six, eight weeks, that's a tough one to come back from cuz that's that's the you know late coming back the speed muscle for skaters That's a real tough one. That one worries me

There you go, Sammy Good news for you. Good. Good. Hey doc really appreciate a buddy. Yeah Word is where can you send that cream for? The lower body injury rash Gordon has? He's got to peel down to show us or else we're going to lose him. I'll talk to you at the faculty wine and cheese about it, OK, next week, right? How about that? Sounds good.

All right. Thanks for joining us, Dr. Jason Smith, who Your orthopedic surgeon to the many other pro athletes see that that's a real doctor compared to Borubi He sounds like he's a Ruby sounds like he said Jiffy Lube, you know Kind of thing so you'd got a leaf scratch your head, you know, this guy gives you the good straight goods. We have a few minutes left in the lease hour. Yeah, I would like to read a paragraph from your from your trade board today. Is that fair?

Is that allowed? Sammy, you are the reader on our show. And it's not a good one. So here we go. In the East, the Florida Panthers could be a team in the running for Rantanen if Matthew Kachuk's long-term groin injury potentially ends his regular season. And don't rule out the Toronto Maple Leafs either, as they could acquire Rantanen as a bit of a security

in case Mitch Marner decides to head to free agency on July 1st. They could seamlessly replace Marner with Rantanen on a line with Austin Matthews, and could probably get an extension done. Stirring the pot. That's juicy, baby. Anything you disagree with?

I'm not disagreeing. I don't have a... What do you think? I think absolutely that Brad Tree Living is looking at all options and that would be one of them. So how much do they retain? Can you retain again? You can retain again.

Carolina can retain again 50%. So that's 50 Chicago has and up to 50% Carolina he could come he could be traded to the Leafs as if the Leafs are picking up a contract for two point three million dollars which is less than slotting which is less than a lot of guys you're talking as a hired gun as a hired gun to play alongside Mitch Marner Yeah in the Stanley Cup playoffs and then because now Carolina the owner has not had a propensity to spend money So if they're going to retain money, obviously that's added value that more assets have to go Carolina's way But boy thinking big I'm hey Florida won the Stanley Cup last year and they very well could get Seth Jones.

Bill Zito has a relationship with him. You know, I mean, just so, that's, hey, Vegas has done it every year. You think big, right? You think big, you go after the big fish. I like it, I like it. What do you think, buddy? Yeah, I like it, bud.

I like it a lot. When you don't have to give anything up at one point, you love it, but then. The only thing is, is the assets that it would take to satisfy Carolina and the other The other thing for Lee fans is that you are in high competition with every pretty much every competitive Team going into the playoffs this year who can easily add a two point

Four million dollar contract and that's pretty much everybody can make room for that so now now we're into what are the assets that's the question that I get well they gave up Marty Natures yeah they gave up more than that but I mean Marty yeah I mean they gave up a real player and they're gonna want a real player back yeah and so that would be off the throttle of my police. Well, the way Nick Robertson's playing. It's the best game ever. It's the best game ever.

We declared him an untouchable last night, Sammy and I. Oh, no, no. With Holmberg. Yeah, with Holmberg. But is there a guy, I can't really think of the match on the least roster that would satisfy them, like a, you know, in the nature. They also don't really want futures,

because their future is now Carolina. It would have to be a decent, if not significant, top six-ish roster player. Well, that's when maybe you do the three-way trade that someone that likes Easton Cowan and or Fraser Minton or whatever it may be. Correct. And you do it that way, the three-way trade. I mean, Jimmy brother for that and and Patrick all vein did a pretty good job in Vancouver about dealing with JT Miller and you know

Get a couple couple of different, you know different place different trades to try to correct it John DeVaris a Carolina hurricane I'm joking. Yeah, that's not that's not happening. John's not going anywhere and It doesn't sound like it really sounds like he'd love to sign a contract right now. But I think the Leafs are smart. It's like, John, you're not in your prime and we know that you don't want to go anywhere. So we're not in any hurry. So Kip, you are the trade guy. Sportsnet.ca, you're doing a lot of these trades. But don't tell anybody that,

because I like to be known as the guy that used to be that guy. But you're in it every day. I said that to you. Everyone devours it. Everyone loves this stuff. This is sexy stuff. This is salacious sports stuff.

Well, it was sexy until you brought up you had a rash. Ha ha ha ha. This is salacious sports stuff. Well, it was sexy until you brought up you had a rash Maybe you just redo my cream. I don't actually need to see him. I get a refill. But yeah, you're right. You're right if it's it's the fantasy of What you envision your team and what it could look like in a very short while and what you think you may need to to win a Stanley Cup and yeah it's a fun time of year for sure for everybody. That's what Vegas did Jack Eichel, Mark Stone like whatever that player was out there they found a way to get them. I got a lot of names that are being bantered about now and it's legit their names are out there. of names that are being bantered about now and it's legit their names are out there like I said in sportsnet.ca like St. Louis Blues has got a lot of guys out

there they may look at one or two but it's not a fire sale there's not like everybody Doug Armstrong is trying to trade everybody but it's like where's the fit you're always talking always or do you lived it no I know you're always you you were there always are you know another GM then you kind of hey I was whatever then you go by the way you lived it, man. No, I know. You're always up to the train. You were there. You always are. Always are. You know, another GM, then you kind of, hey, I was, whatever. Then you go, by the way, you thinking of doing anything? Do you like somebody on our team?

Whatever. Well, we got you all week. So I want to get into a few conversations you've had over the years as a general manager. I think it would be terrific insight. And we got plenty of time to do it the rest of the week. So. Should I go home now?

No. OK. No. Good. I get to stay for the national hour? There we go. National Next with general manager, former general manager, Brian Lotton. week, so. Should I go home now? No. Okay, good. I get to stay for the national hour. We go national next with former General Manager Brian Lotton.

Don't go away.