Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Reality Without Rielly

Episode Date: February 13, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with Morgan Rielly's delayed suspension hearing, why it's taking so long, which precedent it will follow and how many games they think he'll get. They look ahead to tonight's Leafs game against the Blues, McCabe taking the power-play QB role, which player Keefe should try next to Matthews and Marner next and how long Samsonov's leash is with Hildeby in as the backup. They are joined by Blues' President of Hockey Ops. and GM Doug Armstrong (27:10) to share the progress on St. Louis' rebuild, Robert Thomas' development and the decision to fire Craig Berube. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

we're right back at it on the real kipper and born show nick kiprios justin bourne sammy mckee frank the tank baraska derek brandeo with you for the next two hours for the first hour it is our Leaf edition. Toronto Maple Leafs will face the St. Louis Blues as they make their only visit to Toronto. Leafs looking to get back on track as we await D-Day for Morgan Rielly. Decision day. We know that the hearing went on early this afternoon,

lasted about 30 minutes. Snowstorm made it Zoom. Snowstorm made it Zoom. So the Leafs wanted to go down there and have a little face-to-face because there is the thought that they were very animated in terms of feeling very strong that this should not be a lengthy suspension. And the best way to do that is eye-to-eye.

I bet you Brandon Shanahan, having been there, encouraged Riley to say, I think it's worth it. Remember David Perron didn't go? And I remember thinking at the time, like, boy, you should go be there for that and stand up for yourself. But Riley was going to go by all accounts. Yeah, and the weather stopped him. Yeah, the weather that we're supposed to get

on Thursday is supposed to be snowy here. I'm just trying to share my screen. Can you see? This is the hearing. Can you see what I'm seeing? You can't? He's just working from home today boys sounded like a very business-like zoom call i don't think uh there's a lot of yelling and screaming or furniture being broken in the background so uh lasted probably about half an hour who do you think who all would be involved in that meeting from the leaf side uh morgan of course would have to state his case uh brad tree living perhaps brendan shanahan i have no confirmation on that but i would think brendan would want to be on it in some way shape or form

just in terms of giving morgan support you'd have georgeos, Stephon Quintel, Patrick Burke, I imagine. Yeah. Yeah. And members of the Players Association. Can I ask you why this is taking so long? Because they have the time.

Because they have the time? It's always about the schedule. It feels like to me, is it always about the schedule? Always about the schedule. All right. Do you play the next night? Or in this case for the Toronto Maple Leafs,

it goes from Saturday to Tuesday. They take the extra day. I guess the idea that it's going to be less than one game was not an option on the scorecard. I guess. It just feels like they've really left a lot of time for us. Yeah. For people like they're, I guess this is why maybe the Leafs lead the league in the suspensions

because it's just the discourse on this. And it's tiresome. It's, you know, there is a lot of different opinions from a lot of different sides on this. And it just feels like if a Phoenix of an Arizona Coyote did this, we wouldn't be talking about it very much. Well, of course. There's nothing that can grasp the attention than a controversial play against the Toronto Maple Leafs. But also, it has major ramifications for this Leafs team.

He plays the whole game for them. He's their most important defenseman, maybe their most important player. And they're on the cusp of playoffs. This is a massive. No, no, no, no. You're exaggerating. You're exaggerating.

You keep saying this because you want it to be more dramatic when they are on the cusp. You're couching it. And this is the same with the Tavares going to be point for game thing. It's not a lock, my friend. Like when he said the Leafs should sweep the Panthers. Like 32 games. They're not on the cusp they've got 32 games yeah to go in either direction that's how how it works

you're not assured an upward ascent over 32 buddy they got the ducks the blues the coyotes teams they should beat the next five games and they're timothy Lilligren's on the top pair. Can we have this conversation after five games? No. No. Jake McCabe's on the first power play unit tonight, Nick. This matters. Okay, so... How many games, by the way?

Speak hypothetically. Give me your prediction. I think they go one less than Perron at five. But here's the but. Too much. Oh, listen. I don't like... I didn less than Perron at five. But here's the but. Too much. Oh, listen, I didn't like Perron's at six. It's too much. Did they box themselves into a corner here with needing to match Perron?

He could get six. Morgan Riley could get six just to say that it ticked all the same boxes as Perron. Therefore, we're going to stay consistent or do they go a little less because it's it's morgan riley the guy had two penalty minutes for god's sakes well that's a big part to me like perron didn't have a suspension history but he had a history of being a no i think there was a retaliatory uh there was one thing something but he had and he also had a history of being greasy. He's greasy.

You know, Riley took his first penalty in game 41 this season. Can I just address something that I've seen a lot amongst Leafs Nation? Of course. Is the chase-on play where there's, do you see that clip kipper of the chase-on cross-check? And I don't know who was in the Leafs that he got. He cross-checked somebody and it was one game suspension. It was Jimmy Vesey, thank you, Derrick Brandale, that he cross-checked him.

That cross-check. They might as well show it in black and white. It's like a million years ago. It's like it's not even counting. My point is Leafs Nation are lying to themselves if they think that's even close to as bad as morgan riley's but morgan riley's is much worse than what jason did like sure it's a cross check to the head kind of it's it's a similar thing i would say even close wayne

simmons getting cross check that's out there is pretty egregious that one's worse for sure but i just that one but just seems like we don't, we only can compare it to maybe the latest suspension or the one behind it. But when you start going back a year, two, three years, it's almost as if it's dated. Well,

we'll have Elliot on today. Elliot Friedman is going to join us in the second hour. But one of the things that he talked about is how, you know, people are appealing suspensions more now they just never did that and three of the last four maybe or three last three have all been appealed and so now there's this like desire to have precedent to have yes you know something to compare it to previously so listen make them work yeah make everybody work yeah and that's fine and get it

down on paper but things are changing right like the i agree that super old ones are not super healthy and it's and it's not to uh save a game or two the appeal and it's not to necessarily even try to save a few bucks although that's that's a nice bonus it's just to get them to write it down on paper so i don't even know if i asked you what do you think it should be if you were george peros what would you give him kipper yeah i'd be in the two to three range exact same pocket for me i'd say yeah three yeah i'd hear both arguments for sure but no injury riley's history i think it's more one hand than two on the cross check that gets written up just please

please just acknowledge that ridley greg touches his dick first made a dick move how's that just acknowledge it it. Say, you know, I love the video shows. As the video shows. You kind of had something coming. You know, just acknowledge that. We don't condone crosschecks to the head.

But the video clearly shows we have a bit of a dick move. Come here. Play your teammates' comments here. Like, everybody believes it here. Come here. Play your teammates' comments here, right? Like, everybody believes it was a dick move. I heard Braden Shen today. His comments on it were basically like that it was embarrassing,

what Greg did. Like, he was really opposed to the idea. As the video shows, he was a total hotshot. We're okay with what you did. We're okay with what you did.'re okay with what you did but just know that something's coming and if you want to turn around and fight them yeah we welcome that because we love the battle of ontario and it's back baby like even if you wanted to fight him you know i talked to my dad today who you know played for a lot of years and his comment was very similar to yours yesterday

which was like the art of goading someone into a fight is kind of lost and my dad said the the best play is just a glove on punch you know you start with a good punch to the face of the glove on you're not getting suspended for that and then you're saying and if you're willing to get the gloves off at that point now we're in one you know i'd rather get punched bare knuckles than a glove yeah the the insult what's that we're having the glove on is more insulting or no no no no you could do a lot of damage with a glove yeah like if i point my thumb in the right direction i could i like you can't see for weeks out of one eye that thing right into your skull mr kiprios are you speaking from experience by any chance yeah

it's dangerous gloves are dangerous a knuckle any chance? Yeah, it's dangerous. Gloves are dangerous. A knuckle sandwich I can deal with. It's not viewed the same, is it? Like a glove-on punch is viewed as much more acceptable. Yes. Yeah. I'm fine with that too. Yeah.

But yeah, no, I'm two, three range. Yeah. I think it'll end up being five. The Perron thing at six has really put Morgan Riley in a tough situation where I don't, anything lower than Perron, the perception is going to be that they caved to the Leaf nation. The guy Perron hits isn't looking. He doesn't even know what's coming.

And it's also the wrong individual. And he's hurt. It's the wrong individual. Yeah. God, that is a lot. That makes it worse. So the feeling what the feeling is that uh we will hear something tonight we want to turn the show i don't know if we're

gonna get it before the show let's send some texts here soon it would would it surprise you if it uh came down like 10 minutes into the first period no no is the answer would not surprise me at all if it's not before puck drop at 7 p.m. for St. Louis, it has to be after the game. No. They'll do whatever the hell they want. You think? Yeah, you're right.

Just they know what they're going to give them. Put it out there now. The meeting's over. They know what they're going to give them. Oh, no. They're going to take the time because they're going to want to put a video together to explain it. Oh, they're just.

They got to make content. Get the content ready. Oh, no, they're going to take the time because they're going to want to put a video together to explain it. Oh, they're just... They got to make content. Get the content ready. Oh, God, I'm really dreading this one. As the video shows. They already know the clips. As the video shows, Sam McKee is pissed off. When was the last time you actually listened to that? To those videos?

Are you a listener of the explanation? No, it's a great question because I don't anymore. Think anybody would be interested in it? I did. I did for a long time when they were new and whatever and now I don't know. I remember being Shani's voice. Remember he used to narrate them when he was the guy.

I remember when it first came out, he started it. I don't watch them because I know what the cause of them is. I think I can tell, isn't it? Oh, is it Burke? I'm not sure. We do not agree. Whose voice is that? Oh, is it Burke? I'm not sure. We do not agree. Whose voice is that? That's whoever it is that's still doing it. All right, let's go to Sheldon Key for our first Kippers Clipper

of our show on playing without Morgan. It gets the team's attention, I guess is what I'm saying. And, you know, you can galvanize or rally around that. In my time here, the team has done that quite well. You know, a reference to yesterday, right? Last season, we had a number of injuries on defense. And guys came in, did a good job. Everybody around them played better.

Ended up being one of our best stretches of the season at a time when, you know, it could have gone real bad. You know, the team was kind of trying to find its way. You know, and then even this season, we had injuries on defense as well this season. And, you know, we were unsure about our depth on defense. And then guys come in and do a really good job for us. And, in fact, you know, you look at a case like Benoit, he sort of hasn't looked back from that. So, you know, in some of these cases, some great things can come up.

I can see this happening. I said to McKee before we came in to do the show here that one of two things is happening tonight. You're going to get an awesome Leafs game. Like, you know, one of those times when the Blues are red hot coming to town, the Leafs are with O'Reilly, the exact spot that you get like the best Leafs version of them, they surprise you.

Or. Or. Door number two. Or Dennis Hildeby's in net before the second period. Yeah. Oh, man. Those are your two outcomes. Blues have won five straight on the road, Kip.

They've won seven of their last eight. They are coming in really hot. They're playing well for Drew Bannister. I just, I don't know. For remind people well for for for drew bannister i just i don't know for remind people for who drew bannister he is the coach of st louis blues yes he did not know that yeah so it was last year they lost morgan riley for what 17 games yeah and they were awesome it was i think it was 14 15 they went 12 and 2 i think oh i think they went better than that yeah because it was there it was that november where they were red hot and then they went into ari Arizona and lost the first game.

He came back. Yeah. I remember the conversations we had last year. Like, are we sure? I feel so dumb. So, I think they went something like 14-2-1 or something. Yeah, they were really good. Really good.

So, yeah, it's possible, right? But Lilligren hasn't been very good and he's going to be asked to play top pair minutes that stretch too was like like phenomenal defensive coverage that we've seen in many many years and it maybe just speaks to the sense of urgency when you lose a morgan riley and that's what's why I think tonight could be a surprisingly good game. When everyone's like, no passengers, we need everyone without Morgan, and all of a sudden you put together a great effort. One interesting note is that Jake McCabe is replacing Riley

on the top power play unit. Does it surprise you that Timothy Lilligren isn't the guy being given the look, given kind of what, you know, he seems likeigren isn't the guy being given the look given kind of what you know he seems like maybe they're more offensive guy mccabe you think of as a defensive type of guy do you want a really exciting answer yeah no doesn't surprise you doesn't surprise because because i've watched lilligren play for last month yeah so this is more about lilligren than mccabe to you for sure like i just don't like i don't know what Kipper thinks, but if there's one guy on the D-Core that's shown that he's

proved his way up to that top unit, it's him. Timmons is out for however long with Mono, so he's not going to be able to do it. Yeah, Connor Timmons out for indefinitely again, which, you know, feel for that guy. God, he's had a tough run. But I don't think there's anyone else you'd go to unless you're going to do five forwards, which we can talk about. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with

Sammy that I do believe that Lilligren will get good looks on the power play tonight. I think it's wise to not announce it or tell anybody. Oh, really? Yes. I think because he's got enough on his plate right now between his ears and maybe his ankle. Yeah. Okay. He's not playing well he's making

some bad decisions i don't know where he is on percentages of feeling great on the ankle but the last thing you need to do is to tell the whole world and lilligran's gonna come in and on the power play okay so this is totally random little bits. You can do useful or useless on this for me. In 124 minutes for Morgan Riley, they've scored 26 goals, the Leafs, of power play time. That's a goal roughly every 4.45 of ice time. Lilligren, it's 11 minutes, a goal roughly every 11 minutes

of power play ice time he gets which is obviously twice as bad uh jake mccabe three goals they've scored in his seven minutes of power play ice time two minutes and 20 seconds per is the actual exact number look at this guy here jake mccabe is kale mccarr he's been waiting in the wings i love by the way big mccabe guy he can shoot the puck he can shoot it yeah he can shoot it i think he can shoot waiting in the wings i love by the way big mccabe guy you can shoot the puck he can shoot it yeah he can shoot it i think you can shoot it in the net he's he shot it over 92 miles per hour in game once this season he's i like it so give it a try and as for five forwards they've only been five forwards for less than a minute i think 20 some seconds of ice time this year but

last year they went five forwards fairly often with michael bunting yeah and when they did that not a ton of success lower success rate than the first unit and their second unit and they gave up a couple shorties so we can listen to sheldon who talked a little bit about that as well on the idea uh clip number three on potentially playing with five forwards on the power play still an option for us. Quite honestly, it's specific to how St. Louis penalty kills and how we feel we need to play against them. They create a lot of offense on their penalty kill, so that's one thing to be aware of. But just some of the nuances in the zone,

we think it's better for us to have our forwards play in more natural positions, and McCabe as a left-hander with that group is more similar to Riley. So it came down to kind of a handedness thing for us with debated Lilligren or McCabe, but we like for today's game and for this opponent with more of a traditional look for us st louis second in the league in shorthanded goals yeah they got 11 already the leafs only

have five and they roll out marner and sometimes matthews and neil and i st louis looked pretty good and i know it was montreal the weekend, but they're coming in feeling pretty darn good here. I think as long as the power play doesn't look leaky, it's fine. I think that's part of the McCabe thing too. They're like, you just make sure no one's behind you and let the other guys do the thing they do. They don't. If you get to hit it, great.

That's not really how he works. McCabe? Yeah. Like, you don't think they're going to put him out there and be like, I'll be a good boy. Like, he is going to be. Jumping? You think he's jumping?

He'll be down below the goal line one time. He'd be so nervous to be out there for the first time, he won't do that. Okay. Not my Jake McCabe. Okay. I'm putting Carlton in the bear if I see him gambling. Yeah, McCabe cannot take a risk.

No one behind you. Okay. We've been watching him for a year, boys. You're making it seem like that's a crazy thing that happened. Well, but a 5-on-5 is different from... He's a gambler. Yeah, he'll roll the dice here and there, but... I just think it's within the realm of possibility.

Hopefully Smart enough to know this ain't his spot to roll in. You've got to now look at the team collectively with the loss of Morgan Riley, and it's okay to just look at the blue line, but this is going to be a night when all the forwards are going to have to come back and help, and they're going to have to have better back pressure. I get that Sheldon still wants maybe a stretch pass to break out.

But you got to make sure that puck comes out before you start blowing zones tonight. Listen, try to win the game 2-1. It's okay. It's all right. Tonight's about not giving them chances or not shooting yourselves in the foot. that's what tonight should be all about well and as you mentioned off the top of the show this is where they did that their best without morgan

riley in the past they said we need to tighten up and they have shown that they're able to do it so yeah you'll see a full effort you get david camp back tonight which is big it's crazy how different the lineup looks with and without him. So, you know, at least you feel like you have someone else that's defensively responsible. Mark Giordano is going to be back as well. You know, whatever you think of him, he is defensively responsible as well.

So you got enough guys to help contain the Blues. All right. Have we played Sheldon on the elevated roles? We have not. All right. Let's hear what his thoughts are on the rest of the hockey club. Well, I think it's a combination of things. First thing is to not try to do too much

and not feel like the responsibility is bigger than anything that you're capable of. It's more so just getting out there and playing. And as I said yesterday, sometimes for some players, it actually works out better because you're just thinking less. You have to go.

You've got to keep going. You don't have time to get in your head. And if you make a mistake, you're likely going right back out. Sometimes when some of these things happen and you have no choice but to count on others, it can benefit guys. In some cases, too, guys just get really excited about a chance to go out and and show they can play everybody's looking for more opportunity always you know whether you're going well or not so well guys want to play you guys want to play a lot and um you know that's uh you know that's that's where we're at here and um you know i'm excited for for the for the team to

go out and respond. One of the guys that is playing a lot more in the last couple of games, Max Domi. And I'd like to see him up with Matthews and Marner. Me too. I'd drop Nyes. Me too. You know, there's nothing to be married to with a Greg or Domi Robertson line.

Yeah, it's not giving you no a lot so you might as well you know domi you said been playing what 17 minutes a couple of games yeah 16 17 you know against ottawa every time he's on the ice with mitch marner whether it's them connecting directly or not they seem to have good things happening it's two really good passers you know with the best shooter on earth so i don't hate idea. I'm not sure who goes to get the puck, but hopefully you just have it all the time. Yeah, there could be some potential there to really unlock a guy like Domi

who hasn't created as much offense as he's probably wanted to because he's been on the bench too much. Yeah, I just think that it feels like there's a natural fit there with him passing too often, Matthews, and it's not going to help Matthews is his numbers skipper, but I think it'll be good for him to sauce a couple of Matthews.

So Matthew and I has been better though. You know, I think we're at Saturday. Yep. Scored the other night, had an assist, you know, just,

just the looks a little bit more energized to me. You see in that Kip, a little bit of second wind from here from, from him. Yep. Absolutely. And again, I think again, You seeing that, Kip? A little bit of a second wind from here, from him? Yeah, absolutely. And again, I think, again, Nyes is still a bit of a project here, guys.

Just in terms of now, you got to back him off a little bit too. I just don't think that, they made the decision to rest him during the all-star break. And I get that in terms of coming out of college he made it abundantly clear my season would have been over this time last year at the halfway mark uh yeah he could have gone and played a few games for the marlies but they didn't want to put the the extra weight on his shoulders of uh wear and tear or just the mental

battle so just back him off a little bit and put a guy that's been in the league almost 10 years and max domey last one i know we're gonna go because we got to get to doug armstrong on the other side president of hockey ops and general manager for the st louis blues uh but what are your thoughts on samsonov tonight um you know is there a scenario where they just say look you're the, you're in there if you give up eight? Or do you think this is a scenario where he could get the hook if he's bad? Yeah. Again, they got a rookie in Dennis Hildeby. Hildeby.

Hildeby. Hildebeest. I think it's a last resort to want to put him in his first NHL game. Cold. Cold and down for nothing so I think like the roof's got to completely cave in one of those ones are they saying sorry Samsonov sorry about your mental state if five's going in it's ten but yeah to me is it's not ideal it's the wrong line of thinking it's it's because I mean if you need I mean when's wolbeck like i know he's

practicing but like you need samson i think you're still in protect samson out of mode here versus hildeby no no i think it's a good point it depends if you've given up on him or not you could you can do a lot of damage if you think that you've made good strides in the last three weeks or a month with samsonov there is potential to do a lot of damage tonight yes so i don't know what the answer is i think you just gotta you gotta read the vibe tonight and sheldon needs to throw in the towel that's his job that he's paid to do that i think you know if you're the leafs you got to give up under 25 shots to st louis tonight the blues are 22nd in the nhl and goals four per game like it needs to be you need to protect samson off tonight we think joseph wall

is close yeah so like next week he could be what's the weekend like ducks saturday saturday and then tuesday he is in practice uh so st louis tonight uh in philly thursday and then saturday at home at the ducks yep yeah i don't think he can look past the next two games and then reassess. And if it's not pretty in net for you, you may have to go to Joseph Wall as early as Saturday night. The Wall and the Beast as a playoff tandem. Here it comes.

All right, let's go. All right, we're going to take a quick break and as my good buddy JB mentioned, Doug Armstrong, president of Hockey Operations, St. Louis Blues and they are hot after the break. You're watching and listening to Real Kipper

and Born. covering the Raptors in depth like no one else the Raptors show with Will Lou subscribe and download the show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts the Toronto Maple Leafs are set to do battle against the St. Louis Blues, who make their only visit to Toronto as the Leafs look to get back on track. Now joining us, let's welcome in the president of hockey operations, general manager of the St. Louis Blues, Doug Armstrong. So, Armie, you beat Buffalo on Saturday. You crushed the Canadiens 7-2 on Sunday. You've won seven of the last eight.

How's the rebuild going? Well, the last couple of weeks, it's been going well. No, the guys have really played well recently. We had a good road trip prior to our all-star break. We laid an egg against Columbus just the night before we took off, but responded with two good games after, and it'll be a great test tonight, actually. Our next four games, Kipper, are going to be a real good test.

We have Toronto twice, Edmonton, and then a Nashville team that we're competing against for a playoff spot. So I guess every game's important, but these next four should give us a good test. Yeah, Doug, you guys are in the second wildcard spot right now. Where are you compared to where you expected to be this season? Is this about par for the course, or are you guys pleasantly surprised with how well you're doing?

No, we thought that we would be competing for one of the wildcard spots. Going into the year, I thought that Colorado and Dallas were going to be the premier teams in our division. When I did say that in September, I also thought that Winnipeg might be trading Shesley and Hellebeck, and they doubled down there. So I've got to give them a ton of credit.

They've had a great year, too. And then you see a team like Vancouver that's playing great and maybe unexpectedly at the top of where they are. We thought we'd be competing with them, but they've taken a different step. So all in all, I think we're in a good spot. I think a place that we thought we'd be. We traded away a lot of good players last year at the deadline and have created growth opportunities for some of our

younger players and we're living and dying with some of those um some of those decisions and uh but i like our veteran group and i think we can stay competitive for a playoff spot here to the rest of the year no no is a guy like robert thomas is still a youngster or just a a guy that's you know coming on or or is he just ready for prime time right now? Because every time I watch you guys, I can't stop watching him. Yeah, I would say he's been in the league a long time because he came as a 19

year old in 2019 when we won. And so he's got a lot of experience, but he's still at a tender age. So I just think probably this year might be the first year or next year is where he's going to feel the most comfortable for the better part of six or seven years. So he's entering the spot right now. I think getting into the All-Star Game was a great accomplishment

and doing it in Toronto in his hometown. And the level of competition I thought in this year's All-Star Game was the highest it's been. And just being able to rub shoulders with those guys I think is great for him. And you're right, he's a player that I enjoy watching every night. You would have competed against Adam Oates, but there's a little bit of Adam Oates in him, Kipper. Just his ability to find plays and to find scenes and to find people is at the top of the NHL. And I think he's one of those younger players now that with the NHL saying that they're going to go to the Olympics, he's a player that I hope sees himself as someone that can

continue to push and strive to be on teams like that, whether it's the Four Nations tournament, the Olympics or any international events. He's represented Canada in the past very well, and him and Kairouan, there's a whole host of people that are looking forward to doing that, and we're happy we got a couple of them. Well, that's interesting. I actually wanted to ask you about Jordan Biddington because, you know, when everyone makes Team Canada's right now,

they go, but who's going to play goal? And Biddington, you know, not that far removed from a Stanley Cup and having a very good season. Tell us about his year. I should say statistically having a good season. Tell us about what you've seen out of him this season. Yeah, he's been very good for us. I think, quite honestly, last year he probably accepted

the most of the brunt of our poor play in front of him. We gave him way too many grade-A chances. I think we're at the bottom part analytically in slot chances against and high-scoring danger chances. And we cleaned up our game, and he's responded by playing very well. I think him and Joel Hofer give us a really good one-two punch there. They push each other. And I think Binton is going to be in that conversation

with other players obviously Hill had a great year and the campers won the Stanley Cup and you go back they talk about not a shortage of goaltenders but I think besides Vasilevski there hasn't been many other countries that have had

Stanley Cup winning goalies lately either so I think we're in a pretty good spot there. But I think Bennington has done a really good job. And he's certainly putting his best foot forward for not only our team, but for whatever comes internationally. We're talking to Doug Armstrong, president of Hockey Operations, general manager for the St. Louis Blues. Army, you had to make a very difficult choice of changing your coach this year. And Craig Berube, Stanley Cup champion. And, of course, you do make the big bucks.

You make big decisions like that. But, you know, all kidding aside here, and this isn't me fishing on what Craig Berube did wrong or why you made the change. But I'm just, you know, there's a lot of markets including this one here and sometimes they just they think the easy decision is just change the the coach and you know some teams um have that type of pressure or at least when do you kind of look at something i gotta think as a president or a gm it's got to be one of the hardest decisions for for that

to be made. And when do you know? And when do you not know? And when do you sit there and go, is it the players? Is it the effort? Is it the system? It's got to be one of the toughest decisions you'll ever make at your position. It is the most uncomfortable because you get a partnership.

And, you know, the reality is, and it's not tongue-in-cheek, like for me, I talked to the head coach when I talked to my wife because every day there's something to talk about. Every day there's something that we're going to go about. And you build that relationship up with your coach. And then Craig and I went back to in 2016. He was doing some scouting for us. Then he went to coach our American Hockey League team, and he came up as an associate coach. And then Craig and I went back to in 2016, he was doing some scouting for us. Then he went to coach our American Hockey League team

and he came up as an associate coach and he takes over as a head coach. So he and I had a long relationship and that's the last thing you want to do. But you get to a point where you've tried to, the organization you've worked with each other, you've tried to push and prod and do different things. And at some point you have to make a drastic change and uh it's not it's not a fun decision you know i've had to do that in the past with a good friend and ken hitchcock uh craig you

know will always be credited for winning our first and only stanley cup in st louis so far and uh he's a great coach, and you're right. He did nothing wrong. It wasn't like Craig Baroud was doing things wrong. We just weren't responding as a team, as an organization, and unfortunately we had to try something drastic to get ourselves back on track. At the end of the day, less of a checklist or a check a box

and more of a gut feel the way you work? That's the way I work, yeah. And I've talked to other managers that they say, how do you know? And I say, you just know. Just one day you wake up and you feel that it's time. And you want to make that be the last decision you make, meaning you've gone through everything else, but there just becomes a time where you feel you owe it to the organization and to the fan base

to see if you can get things back on track. It seems like it's a reflection on the coach, but it's a reflection on the organization as a whole. Ultimately, you change the coach, but it's not the coach's fault. The coach is at the

crosshairs of change. Do you think that a coach can change their ways in season? Like if something's not working, do you think it's possible for a coach to say, all right, I'm going to be a stricter coach or I'm going to change to an offensive system? Or do you think guys are just kind of comfortable being the way they are and take it or leave it? I don't think it's take it or leave it. I think people want to evolve and they want to change. I think everyone wants to change.

But when you've had success and when you've had a relationship with a lot of players for a long time, what you don't want to be is disingenuous to who you really are. Craig has a style. He's open. He's firm. You know, he has a strong belief in veteran players. And that belief was well earned by those players, too.

And so he had the, you know, he wanted to give them every opportunity. And this wasn't just something that happened this year. Last year, you know, we thought we were going to be in a different spot. We had good players in O'Reilly and Tarasenko and Achari and Barbashev and Mikula that we traded the deadline because we weren't having a good year and it just felt that you know we had to make a change but as far as I think Craig has evolved he and he and I worked a lot over the summer trying to get to to know what makes these younger players tick right now and how we can help them get the best out of their career so but at the end of the day, I think Craig Berube has the greatest success.

Craig Berube, I'm not trying to be anybody else. I would say that any coach or manager, if you try and be somebody you're not, I think people read through that quickly. Armie, you mentioned the schedule, the next four games, including Toronto Maple Leafs twice. That starts tonight. You're going to dictate your approach to the trade deadline through the next four games.

Will they play a huge factor, or you got this master game plan? I'd say we have more of a macro look on it than one or two games wins or losses. And again, our team is situated differently this year where last year we had prime time free agents that could change organizations, meaning they could go in there and play in their top six and really help out. This year we're in a little different spot. So I don't think Kipper and guys that – we're not one player away,

let's say, trading two first round picks to get one player. And some would say, well, geez, that makes them better than Vegas or Dallas. You have to be realistic in the way you're at, but also knowing that, you know, Florida made it to the final last year. Like, crazy things happen when you get to the playoffs. L.A. won two championships coming from the seventh and eighth seed. You'd rather be higher up in the food chain.

Obviously, the better teams are going to be favored to win, but I don't think there's a trade we can make right now that's going to have the hockey world say, wow, they're certainly now better than the top three or four teams in the league. We're not going to be spending future assets on short-term solutions.

I want to ask you a bit about toughness. Just not fighting toughness, but just physical play from your core guys. We covered the Toronto Maple Leafs a lot. The guys who play the most are not the heaviest guys. It's Mitch Marner and Nylander and whatever. They're not an angry physical bunch.

I look at the way you've built your team and I see a lot of Braden Shen and Kevin Hayes and Sammy Blaze and sort of these guys that are talented, skilled guys, but not physical. Do you think it's possible for a team to surround a core with enough sort of physicality that a team can get through the playoffs? Here in Toronto, people are trying to figure out, can you do it when your core guys themselves are not a gritty bunch?

Well, I disagree that they're not gritty. They're not gritty, but they're gritty in competitive areas to score goals. They're gritty in certain ways. But I think the Leafs certainly have a great core, and I think they've been close to being favorites to win rounds. They haven't gotten it done. There's different things that happen. But I think that you have to stay consistent to who you are

and what you believe in. And one of the reasons that we built our team like that is because, you know, to get Austin Matthews, you know, you're not getting 112 points and getting Austin Matthews. You're getting like 60. And so you have to – so we built our team more on the strength of the whole group because we didn't have those superstar top-end players. I think if you have a chance to get those superstar top-end players,

you probably build your team a little bit differently. So I know that from the outside looking in, the Leafs have, you know, bringing in O'Reilly last year, bringing in Shari. They've gone about trying to address that. And I think the thing that Bob Ganey taught me about managing in the NHL is that you never know when your time is going to come. So you just got to go to the dance every year.

You just got to go to the dance every year. And maybe the year that people aren't expecting a lot from a certain organization won't go in at all. But if you're not there, I guarantee you, you're not going to win. So that's a strange way to answer your question, but I don't think you should try and become somebody who you're not. Armie, last week we heard USA Hockey announce Bill Guerin

as the GM of the Olympics and Four Nations face-off team. So when's Hockey Canada going to announce you? That's a better question for Hockey Canada. I've always enjoyed working for Team Canada in any capacity. And there's so many great people involved with Team Canada on and off the ice that I'm sure when they want to make their decision, they'll make it. And the way I look at it, Kipper, I'm in a great spot either way. If I get to help out in any way, I'll go.

And if not, I'll be down in Naples at a little pub having a beer, watching all the games. So that's a win. But you definitely want the job if they're interested, correct? I certainly want to. You know, I don't know. I don't want the job. If they think I can help out, I'd love it.

I've never said no to them, and I never would. I just enjoy being around the best of the best. Obviously, you want to win, but what I get out of it more is learning from some of the best in the league, like the people I've had an opportunity to work with on the coaching staff and management staff that made me so much better at the job I do every day. So I'd look at it selfishly.

It's not to go and you obviously go to want to win, but the information that you pick up and the friendships that you gain and the knowledge that you gain is so valuable that as long as you're learning, I think you're moving ahead. And Team Canada always gave me an opportunity to learn. Great stuff, Army. We really appreciate your time. Wish you the best of luck, and thanks for coming on our show.

Yeah, thanks so much. Guys, always enjoy talking to you. Take care. All the best. All right. Doug Armstrong, president of Hockey Ops and general manager for the St. Louis Blues, Stanley Cup champion. But would you put Conor Bernard on the first line?

And what do you think? Barzal, Marner, and, I have a thousand Canada questions. I don't know. He sounded excited about the pub in Naples, boy. He's not going to lie to you. He's going to do you all the job. He's like, ah. Where's Hockey Canada right now?

Look at these. Dude, they're busy. No, but there's a tournament going on. I know, I know. The USA team announced something. Yeah. Right? I think they probably should just lay low in terms of making positive

announcements and stuff. I don't think it's a good time for them right now. No? I don't. But I mean, to Kip's point, there's a job to be done and something to do. There's a job, yeah. That's right. But you're still paid to do a job.

But you don't think. Is that a paid job? I don't mean Hockey Canada, like Doug or whatever. They wouldn't pay you for that, would they? No, no. That would be a volunteer of Doug's time, I think, to go. But someone's getting paid to make those decisions. Correct.

Right? So do you think they maybe have already talked to him? I don't know. Yeah, they've got to be talking about this tournament. And they've got to be talking about who's going to lead the charge at the Olympics. Well, it was going to be Doug at the Olympics. Right? He was the guy for 24. And Cooper was going to be the coach. Is, it was going to be Doug at the Olympics. He was the guy for 24.

And Cooper was going to be the coach. Is that still the case? Let's go. You know, the one thing that bothers me, though, is that... You've got a lot of things that bother you. Yeah, I know, but this is bothering me, is that this...

that the team, the 2018 team, the 2018 team, the whole team remains suspended still. Not by NHL rules. But Hockey Canada. Hockey Canada. Remember Daly and Bettman were saying that they would make the decision?

They specifically got asked about this at the press conference that I was at. This is not a Hockey Canada sanctioned event. It's an NHLPA sanctioned event. No, I know that. But I'm just saying I don't believe that a guy like Kael McCarr should still be suspended indefinitely if he's come out and he said, I wasn't there.

I had nothing to do with this. Unless you have unless you have real evidence against me. All you're doing is just putting me you're painting me with the same brush here. Very true. And I don't like it at all. I've got nothing to do with this.

I've got nothing to do with it. I've said it. I've talked to all the, unless I'm being charged, get me off that list. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Okay. Yeah.

No, you're right. If I'm Kale McCartney or, you know, I want, I'm demanding Hockey Canada to take me off that list tomorrow, or I will never play with you for you ever again. That's it. And an apology, an apology to public apology for putting me on that list. That's it. And an apology too. Public apology for putting me on that list still. Yeah, what are those guys?

The fact finding's done. Why do we still have a list of these kids who had nothing to do with it? Exactly. So what, you can just continue to kind of drag me into that? No, not fair. Not fair. That's a good point. I thought about that, but it's true.

So we will see uh when hockey canada decides to make a decision on that presumably not too far down the road is cooper still the coach yeah tampa bay's on a tear the best best team in the league lately aren't they your favorite team your favorite coach yeah coop tough for me so what did you think of uh doug armstrong's uh answer to answer to changing a coach. He's just, it's just time, right? You just know. He's just a hockeyman through and through, though, Doug Armstrong.

There's not many guys in the league I would trust their feel more on things than that guy. Very true. And also, yeah, he's thoughtful, but still tough. He's made hard decisions when he's had to. I got a lot of respect for Doug Armstrong. Yeah. hard decisions when he's had to we got a lot of respect for doug armstrong and yeah because i mean there's a situation here with sheldon keith that you know there's there's people that think it's a coaching problem others say no he's fine but it's a it's a lack of depth or talent on the blue line that's the or inconsistent goaltending yeah I tried to ask questions with the Toronto Maple Leafs in mind,

and that was why I asked if he believes. That's all we do. That's the real fishing. You know, if you believe a coach can change. If you believe a coach can become a hard ass all of a sudden or a, you know, change the structure. Or are you who you are? And I kind of believe that for it to work you

have to be true to yourself and authentic and players will see through if you're not yeah so i think it's hard for a coach to suddenly you know you've said like you know accountability and whatever well i i'm i'm really interesting interested tonight to see how sheldon can get these guys to tighten up with the absence of Morgan Riley tonight or are they just going to kind of blow the zone and try to get a two nothing lead and outgun them I'm betting on the Leafs tonight these are their spots where where they feel nervous about their situation and all of a sudden they give you a performance if they don't I'd be real worried but yeah no that is

something to watch for for sure yeah what kind of two-way play do you get this is on a this is a shaky it's just shaky for me right now everything you're not feeling it tonight either i'll tell you what i'm just not i'm actually not worried with lisa i'm worried about the goaltending i'm i'm worried everything sammy's gonna go poop the crease i'm thrilled i'm looking at the bottom half of this lineup looking at this decor i'm looking at the bottom half of this lineup, looking at this D core. I'm looking at the goaltending. I'm like, this team is far from being really good. They are.

It's not close to the same team. I'm happy Legasin's back. They've got some holes to plug on that blue line. That has to be the number one priority. And you just roll the dice. Do it then. On Joseph Wall and Samsonov the dice do it then on joseph wall and samson off then do it on the d thing like you he talked about how binnington was exposed by them giving up the most high danger chances well how do you think samson off and crew has felt this year help them out a

little there's lots of rumors out there about you know sorrows and mark shimmons like just for sure the least shouldn't be in on that. It's just a waste of assets. Well, we'll find out. A waste of assets. No, no, no. Not a waste, but the cost would be huge. We're going to find more out at the top of the hour. We're going to welcome in our Elliot Friedman,

Hockey Night in Canada, 32 Thoughts, and we're going to get into all those juicy rumors. We're just going to ask Elliot how many games Riley got until he knows over and over and over. I feel bad because I ask Elliot how many games Riley got until he knows. Over and over and over. I feel bad because I asked Elliot this morning. I'm like, hey, could you come on today? He's a busy guy.

He goes on the radio every single day. And I'm like, can you come on and react to the Riley news? And we haven't got the Riley news. The good thing, like, we've had mild weather. So we're not getting Elliot when he's shoveling or eating or drinking. So he only eats in the cold? I don't know. I don't know. So we're not getting Elliot when he's shoveling or eating or drinking. So he only eats in the cold? I don't know.

I don't know. But he's really calmed down in that part. No comment. It's taken like 30 years for him, but he's now doing interviews for us. No comment. And not eating, which is really good. No comment. All right. I abstain.

All right. I abstain. All right. Thanks to Doug Armstrong, general manager, president, the St. Louis Blues as they get set to battle the Toronto Maple Leafs tonight in the first of how many without Morgan Rielly? We wait and wait. As we said, top of the hour, Elliot Friedman next. Don't go away.