Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Reason for Optimism

Episode Date: December 14, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee kick off with a look at tonight's Leafs' game against the lowly Blue Jackets, the team's tendency to let down in these spots, Gregor getting another look on the top line and Keefe trying to limit the team leaders' workloads. Then a look at Easton Cowan and Fraser Minten making Canada's world junior team, how the tandem of Samsonov and Jones will split time and whether the Leafs prefer a blueline rental or a defenceman with term in a trade. Finally, Blue Jackets analyst for The Athletic Aaron Portzline (34:32) gives a Columbus POV of tonight's game, Fantilli's first game in Toronto, Jarmo Kekalainen being on the hot seat and Gaudreau and Laine's struggles.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

let's welcome everybody in the real kipper and born show leaf edition this hour and also game day all right what a week what a week we have a week and it just doesn't stop in the next two hours for me and you jb we will race over to the studio side, get ready for a 6.30 pregame show that we will be involved with all night. Sportsnet will carry it regionally here, and we will be a part of the show. We said, you know what game we need? Get us on the Columbus matches. You know why? Because JB is going to take a scheduled loss in New York City

to a guaranteed win night against Columbus. How can it not be? No guaranteed win, Sam? No guaranteed win. Are you crazy? Dude, the Blue Jackets, come on. This is a perfect time, perfect opportunity to talk about one of this team's worst habits

is let that midweek letdown spots against out of division opponents that aren't that good. That never happens to the Leafs. This is a true test of how well they're playing. Because, hey, there's a chance they just spanked the Blue Jackets tonight. Like, there's a chance they win big. But. But also.

But. You know. I do know. That's the voice of Sammy McKee. Of course, JB here, along with Derek Brandeo and Jen Rolnick for the next two hours. And wherever you are, download us if you get a chance or text us at 590 590 okay so if in fact the leafs find a way to continue the trend of downplaying against their opponent does that wash away like the last 15 games of the season as a top team?

We are. No, no, no. We fans, but we're built for that. No, I'm telling you. It's not whether or not you're built for that. It's not whether or not you're built for that. But is that another knock against a showing of what? Lack of focus, lack of commitment, lack of character, that you can't come home and beat

a team that reminisces an American Hockey League team. They took a point off the Blackhawks this year. What place are they in, Sammy? I mean, they have what place are they in sammy i mean they have where are they american hockey league teams don't have guys that shoot in the net like they're not i believe they're not the blackhawks the grinch narrator says stink stank stunk that's the blue hey sammy no good no good who is that you that was a great drop because that's the that's what i was gonna to tell you i do i want to they're no good but here's the thing the leafs are built to beat the pants off the type of no good that's

like nashville where there's no real game they can kind of sleepily go through the night and figure it out the columbus blue jackets do have line a and good row who could do something to score a couple of goals in a sleepy game. And all of a sudden you go, Oh God, are we chasing the game again? Have you seen their numbers?

Have you seen Johnny hockey's numbers? Does he have any, what does he have? What's he doing? Like I actually haven't. Mid. No, it's not mid.

It's bad. What he's projected for what? 50 points this year. He's having a bad year. He has four goals in 30 games. Is that good? It's not good. He has 15 points in the game.

There are no signs of one of the top players in the game. No, that is not great, Bob. That is not great. Here's one thing I will say. In about 20 minutes, we're going to welcome in Aaron Portsline. He covers the Blue Jackets for the Athletic. We'll get into Johnny Hockey. We'll get into General Manager Yarmul, his job security,

maybe even Babcock talk. You got to ask him. I mean. Right? It's a story. Ask him what? About what the hell happened. It's all a story.

It's months ago now. No, no, no, no. He plays into where they are. This is. There's a story. Ask him what? About what the hell happened. It's all a story. It's months ago now. No, no, no, no. It plays into where they are. This is. There's pain coming. This is. Oh, my God, Derek. Oh, my God.

Okay, I missed that. Which one? Give us Babs again. There's pain coming. And there was. This is all a domino effect. This is all connected dots for Columbus. I mean, poor Pascal Vincent.

They're like, here's the team. You found out you're the coach the day before the season. Good luck. You have two mercurial superstars and a bunch of young players. Go get them, Tiger. Van Tilly, did you hear the amount of tickets you got for tonight, Kippy? No. Yes, in Toronto.

Please tell me only 10. Times that by 10. 100 tickets to the Toronto Maple Leafs. That's his whole salary for the year. 100 tickets times two is 300 bucks a pot? Yeah. How do you get a hold of 100 tickets? That's the best question I've heard.

You only allocated, I think, 50 as a visiting team. You hit up all your teammates for their two. Somebody's from Ontario, too. But maybe 10 guys give their two tickets. Listen, born in Toronto, probably knows some people in Toronto.

He's an NHLer. Probably played a lot of hockey with a lot of guys. I would love to know what his total cost for that is. Like Justin Danforth, a young kid, is playing on the number one line tonight. I think he's from Ontario. Don't tell me he doesn't have five or ten tickets there. The Columbus Blue Jackets are third in the NHL in even strength goals this year.

How is that possible? I have no idea. You know who gives up the most in the NHL? Yeah. But they score somehow. I don't know. I got no further answers on that. Justin Danforth is from the schwa.

There you go. So he's excited tonight. He's playing with Fantilli and Goodrow on the top line. That's a fun line. That's fun. Yeah, we'll see how much fun it is. Are you excited to watch Dmitry Voronikov tonight? Yeah.

It's a real player. Is it? Yeah. Are they not the youngest team? They have their lineup, can't drink in Ontario. Chinkov, Marchenko, Cole Sillinger, Kent Johnson. It's the youngest average age in the NHL. You're right, Kippy.

So let's go to Sheldon Keefe for our first Clippers, Kippers Clipper on the Blue Jackets. Young team, lots of skill. There you go. They're going through their lineup. Yes, they're in the top third of the league and producing offense. So that would be the challenge.

But the bigger challenge for us is just our game. Coming back here, you know, it's been a good little segment. You know, the schedule started to heat up for us. I thought we managed that well on the road, starting with a good home game here against Nashville. So now it's about coming back from the road and the same type of mindset and attitude as we did in that Nashville game. So that's what my focus is on.

Wouldn't it be refreshing if he just said, listen, if we lose to this team tonight, I'm resigning. Wouldn't you love that? I mean, minus the maybe the resigning dramatic part. But like if he was just like, there's no reason we should lose to them. We have better hockey players. That's up to us, to me and our leadership tonight to make sure we're the better team because we are the better team yeah no one would ever say yeah and like this is when austin and mitch and like you don't take your foot off the pedal here coming back from new york

noah gregor is getting two on the top line tonight, just buzzing against an AHL and a half team. Yeah, I do really respect the way Sheldon Keefe can make every team seem like the 79 Canadians. He has a way of... He has to sell it to his team who can't get up for these sort of games. But going this way is not convincing them. I wonder if it might be better if he just said... I'm sure they're all listening to his availability this morning and where keith is like yeah they're

good i swear they're good he would have given them the same message of course yeah yeah no uh no board clips to post up for the teams to motivate themselves with right maybe they just play clips of the blue jackets best of five series from four years ago and yeah roll that on loop all right you mentioned noah gregor we'll get another look i think on the top line yes he is let's have sheldon keith talk about uh his new number one left winger he's taking advantage of every shift that he's had uh you know i think that uh his speed of course is a great threat, and there's so much you can do with guys that can skate like that

on both sides of the puck. He's done a terrific job on the penalty kill for us, and, you know, we've been pretty much healthy on forward all season, so there hasn't been a lot of wiggle room or movement there for him. I think, you know, with Bertuzzi and Nyes and Robertson, those guys have done a good job. And obviously you've got Marner, Nylander, and Jarnkruk on the right side. So it's been tough to get him more, you know,

because you're trying to get the other guys going just the same, and they deserve their minutes. But, you know, when things happen and there's an opportunity there, you want to reward a guy that's really just worked extremely hard, hasn't complained or asked questions or anything like that. He's just taking every shift and every day as it comes. And you admire that and you need that as a coach. Not easy when you've kind of built into your lane and then you go and go get two superstars to play

with it'll it'll mess with you you can get caught a little bit out there did you have any run of play where you found yourself oh yeah above your oh yeah yeah and it's like get them the puck or just do what i did 95 of my nhl career dump and chase but i mean when they put you with those guys they don't expect you to become someone you're not no but what is expected is to make the right play at the right time yeah and if it is abundantly clear to your coach and your two teammates and probably 15 000 people people in the building, it should be... It should go to that spot. It should go to that spot.

Yeah, I get that. And they're not asking you to create something like Marner, like put it through a triangle and create something. They're just saying, if it's time to dump it, dump it. If it's time to pass it, pass it. Stay in your lane, that sort of thing. And I think that's good advice for Gregor. Yeah, I'm going from playing with Kampf and Reeves to all of a sudden being 17 minutes

and playing with Matthews and Nylander. You're playing a different sport. Totally different sport. There must be times where you're like, all right, I'm planning to play Dizo. And they make a play and you go, oh, we get to go that way. Oh, the other end of the ice is fun. This is fun. Yeah.

Yeah. We will keep an eye on that because it is funny that he hasn't had the opportunity, you know, to get that time given. What are you going to do? Take Bertuzzi down or, you know, who's the other one? Who's the other left winger that they usually have? Who's hurt? Nice.

Nice. That's it. Yeah. The guy that we play, the cover. And the Leafs. Yeah. Nice. And he's been, I think he's just sick.

So, I mean, they gave a little update. Somebody asked if he was back in tonight so we can get a bit of an update on the lineup if you want from Keefe and Clip too. Sure. We're still kind of sorting through some of that stuff. So, you know, we've got, yeah, he's coming off of, you know, getting beat up pretty good by it.

And he's not quite at 100%, especially not having an opportunity to skate and work the bugs out yesterday. But we've got some other stuff happening too. too so we'll make a determination later this afternoon on what the what the group looks like and and how to best manage that all right little green could see action tonight he could see it uh on the weekend against pittsburgh but uh i think overall i mean pretty good job by that blue line the last two weeks to to hold the ford here so when lilligren comes back in it's one of lagasin or benoit that's going out right i guess if you're not going to go seven which you might go seven uh originally when when

he comes back they may go seven just to kind of ease him back in, right? Yeah. But, like, ultimately, one of those guys is going to come out of the lineup, and I think they've both been pretty good. So which one would you lean towards to be the guy that would come out? I like that question, and it's one that I will answer momentarily, but I do want to give you a quick couple of stats on Benoit and Legasin. Yeah. Stealing this from our broadcast tonight because, you know, not everyone listens to everything.

William Legasin is first in the NHL in D-Zone puck battle wins per 60. So he's ahead of guys like Zdorov, Tanev, Adam Fox, Ryan Graves. He hasn't played a ton of minutes, but he wins puck battle. And that does track eye test. Yes. He's not a lot of fun to go up against he's hard on sticks he plays the body well like i that tracks to me fifth in the nhl in hits per 60 is uh simon benoit yeah uh you know behind luke shen lundvig jeremy lozanne no jules and so okay they're useful

yeah they've been really good on the pk they you know there's i don't want to take either of those guys out the way they're playing. It's tough. Yeah, what, like, which way would you lean, Kipper? If you had to bring one of those guys? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it, is Benoit significantly more minutes than Lejoie or Lagasin? I'm not sure, but I think he, I think you're right.

I'm looking at it right now. So I think Benoit has shown that maybe his range can go a little deeper. Career-wise, too, he's over 150 games. 20 or 12, 14 points or 12 or 14 minutes is where I think Benoit's range is. I'm not sure Lagasin can probably carry as much to sustain those numbers that you're talking about. They're both around 15 minutes a game. Are they?

Yeah. Yeah. Listen, watching Benoit at training camp, and he missed a good portion of it, did he not? Yeah. But he seems to be pretty comfortable with a real simple game here well i i i'd say i prefer him to legacy and just because he seems like a guy who kills you know offensive possessions with physical play like he just stops it and he's content to bank it off the glass if the one

like the one silver lining of all these injuries to the decor is you're always going to add to this regardless right fellas like you are always going to add to this regardless, right, fellas? Like, you are always going to be looking to upgrade this, especially after Klingberg, the way it started, and then him getting hurt. But you feel fine with either of those guys getting put into the lineups, even in the playoffs. Like, if a guy that's going to play on their bottom pair

for a game or two, Lagasin or Benoit can obviously handle, like, 12 minutes in a playoff game. Benoit is 6'4", 20-0-5 and lagasin is 6-2-2-11 so they are just bigger bodies which is something they they miss yeah so i think that's i think that's a good little silver lining but uh be nice to get some help like having lilligren come back will help them also uh also from sheldon is managing yeah morgan r Riley's minutes, which isn't necessarily a topic over the years. I don't remember at any point in November, December,

publicly talking about managing minutes, which I like. I mean, the first time you showed me the lineup, I'm like, that's good, because I do believe not just Morgan but the big boys as well is managing these minutes and where you want to allocate them and where you want to focus here has to be a priority going into the back half of the season. Okay, so let's listen to the clip and then talk about this after. Okay?

Yeah. Well, that was part of having seven guys in is that you could share the minutes a little bit better. But, you know, I think those guys have, the other guys have done a good job in earning a little bit more trust. So that's part of it. But it's also, you know, it's back-to-back.

So anytime you go into a game like that, yeah, the goal is to try to keep everybody's minutes down. The game starts and hockey happens, and it doesn't always work out the way you want it to, but going into it, not just Morgan, but all of our top minutes guys, you're trying to bring them down a little bit, and the game finishing the way that it did the other night um you know gave us an opportunity to to not have to to grind through our top people and morgan's averaging 25 a night

yes he is which i'd like to see come down you know it's interesting um last year he was at 21 42 so he's playing three and a half minutes more almost three and a quarter minutes more than last season it's a lot that's a big jump but i don't think it's unreasonable to ask your number one guy to play 25 minutes he's 10th in the league in time on ice there's 90 playing more than him yeah i i have no problem with it to me yeah it's too much for me but has there been a noticeable step back in his game for you kip or is it more about the playoffs you're worried about 100 it's just his uh and he was fantastic against tampa bay he was a maybe their best player yeah

but first round series how about like making sure that that level can be sustained in the second and third round as well. Yeah, we saw it. Nobody thrived in the second round against Florida, including Morgan. Morgan dropped like everybody else did in that second round, and that's what you're trying to protect for the next 50 games. Yeah, I would say the best argument for what you're saying here is that he was so good in playoffs after a season where he played 21-42.

And I don't really think that, like, the second round, to me, wasn't about the Leafs being tired. I think it was more about them just not expecting what was coming with the Panthers and just getting punched in the mouth. I think it just happened so fast for them. Like it happened to everyone that the Panthers played. They swept Carolina. Like it just, they were just a different situation.

But I hear what you're saying. You want them to be fresh in the playoffs. Yeah, I didn't get energy out of them, Sammy. And that's slow, fast, say what you will. They didn't have, they did not match their energy. They were scared. Or their intensity. That's what it comes down to they were scared with that team yeah maybe it sounds harsh but that's what it felt like and it felt like that earlier when they played them this year

so yeah i don't disagree with either point you know riley i think the uh 25 then if we want to back it off like a minute or two i'm fine but i like sheldon's idea that that's why they went into seven on the back to back you know try to spread out the minutes a little bit so luligren would certainly help out and take some of the load off as with giordano yeah um shall we move on to the young fellas uh not yet minton and cowan because we're gonna have jason buccala in the second hour uh talk a little bit more specifically about uh of the Leaf prospects at the World Juniors. Team Canada. Leafs.

Two players. So this has been pretty rare. Did I not put it in here? I thought I put it in here. Yes. I didn't. The last time a Leafs prospect made Team Canadaada was ian scott in 2018 he played in just one game prior to that it was mitch marner and travis dermot 2015 wow so uh that was from

kevin pepetti on twitter and i just he laid it out for me yeah and i didn't really realize how long it had been wow and i think for you know i think the relationship with that tournament has definitely changed as i've gotten older clearly clearly. They really are just kids. They're so young. But I think for a lot of Leaf fans who, over the Christmas break, are excited to watch a World Junior Tournament, to have Cowan there, to have Minton there, that's awesome. And for them, that's huge.

It's a really exciting thing. So, I don't know. Kipper, you don't care? No, I want to hear Sheldon Keek talk about the prospects. Perfect. Let's have it. For the players themselves, it's a tremendous opportunity. I mean, it's a great tournament, obviously.

It's sort of the pinnacle of junior hockey, you know, in terms of best on best. It's the stakes, right? It's the stakes. It's the pressure. It's representing your country, it's coming together and, you know, it's all players that are, for the most part, top players on their teams,

but now have to come in and, you know, find a role and, you know, do different things than they're probably asked to do, in most cases, on their own teams. Those are the kind of things that I think really help top-end players to develop. And that's all part of becoming a pro. In most cases, you don't step right in and get the same role that you had in junior hockey. You've got to sort of work your way through things.

I'm probably more excited or at least the prospect of having a bigger impact on the Leafs in two years for sure maybe next year is more Easton Cowan than Minton for me

about playing for the Leafs next year? Yeah. Really? Playing for the Leafs. God, I saw the picture of the two of them on the bus in their Canada jerseys, and they are children. I can't believe Minton played in the NHL this year. I said to Borny, and I'll say it here,

I don't, like, you know, Pontus Holmberg losing his job to a literal child is probably not great for his career. You know, it is crazy looking back pontus is uh like i'm surprised how much he's on the outside looking in right now he's not even part of the conversation he's he's trust me he's going to be that prospect that they're trying hard to throw into a deal right now yeah pontus yes oh yeah yeah because you could sell someone on like hey if you're looking for a fourth line center, he's got some value for you.

I think he can play. I think if you put all the league's fourth line centers into a list and you put his name in there, you'd go, yeah, yeah, it's fine. But as far as Cowan's concerned, I think he just needs to get stronger, a little bit more mature. But he's got that type of game that you can not commit

to Tyler Bertuzzi and envision Cowan in two years, two and a half years. To me, they'd have that similar type of feel. Yeah. He's got 39 points in 23 games, 35 pims. they'd have that similar type of feel. Yeah. He's got 39 points in 23 games, 35 pims. So he is scrappy a little bit, eh? He's in the mix.

He's got a few shorties too. I thought he showed very well this year. And I thought when he left, he'd be two years away from being a Maple Leaf. The hard part is you see guys come into the NHL with big reputations. Matthew Nyes comes out of college at, let's see, 6'3", 220 or something. He's a monster of a man.

It's still really hard, right? Not just to be a contributor, I mean. Nyes is so clearly a good NHLer. It's obvious. But to actually contribute to a team that's trying to win a Stanley Cup is a different thing than making the league. And so, yeah, I can see...

Takes a long time. Yeah, like Minton and Cowan can definitely play in the league next year. Definitely. Can they help the Leafs win a Cup during their peak time here? I don't have an answer. It's just hard is my point. Samsonov gets the start tonight against,

we believe, Elvis. Stojakovic. Berslikens. Yeah, I mean, what else are you going to do? Jones didn't play well enough to hold the net or anything like that. You need Sammy. Yeah, Samsonov is the quote-unquote starting goalie for the Toronto Maple Leafs right now.

Martin Jones is the clear backup and you run with it like that until joe wall comes back i guess like i don't think martin jones is gonna blow you away so bad he's like he's you gotta start him over samson off do you envision that happening no but i do think that you know you could still give samson off some rest like jones makes me feel very comfortable when he's in net that he's able to kind of handle the, you know, medium level shots, not do too much. So yeah, so he's not going to steal the net or anything.

Especially when you think that there still might be work to be done to clean up his game a little bit here. For Samsonov. Yeah, for Samsonov. Yeah. That's why you would welcome in a Martin Jones to kind of hold the fort a little bit yeah but not to not to think that martin will be the guy once uh joseph wall returns i think he's just like he's the seventh defenseman of goalies martin jones he's not like you're

gonna put him in there you're gonna hope it doesn't go to he's not gonna win you the game but you hope he doesn't lose it for you basically that's what it comes down to you hope you score four goals and yeah he lets in three it's kind of what you're hoping for so in front of him is that you know riley we're talking about how much he's playing is paired with uh tj brody the guy we don't talk about very much do you feel like he's found he's even better of late for you where are you on brody a guy who's start to knock you know the amount of points that they've accumulated over the last, what, we said 15 games? Yeah.

Like, but... Over the last 15 games, they have 23 points. Best in the NHL. I'm just, I'm not sure where it's looking long-term for TJ Brody. And I do believe that Brad Tree Living still looking at shaking the apple cart on that blue line I don't believe for one second he has any vision

of thinking that that that blue lines close the problem is so does that mean Brody finds a way to hang in there in the last year of his contract or do you does he get flipped out i just don't see any version of the leafs d that gets better when you trade tj brody because you have to start by replacing 20 some minutes of a kind of pk defensive specialist steady guy well we talked about this a little bit yeah uh you know under the right circumstances with a prospect or a draft pick though you can go out there and and get someone with term

in that sort of role and then someone you know a team feels like they they open up cap space somewhere else and Chris Tanev is a UFA but a guy last night I'm watching David Savard. That's my guy. And I'm like go get David Savard. For sure. He has another year at three and a half if you can get Montreal to retain on that.

So give him an expiring contract in TJ Brody. Yeah. And throw him a he's expensive. Savard? Oh yeah. So give him an expiring contract in TJ Brody. Yeah. And throw him a... He's expensive. Savard? Oh, yeah. Can't give him Holmberg in the third?

No. The thing with Brody is, we talked about this a little bit on Lee's talk, just feels like he's always handcuffed. Because he's playing on the offside, and Morgan's firing passes over to him. And he's always hitting him on the backhand, and he's trying to dig it out of his feet all the the time just playing on the offside as a d-man

must suck as good as he is at it it definitely is a bit compromising well he's done it forever right but it's just it doesn't really look pretty no i wonder what he'd be like on his actual side be fun to know yeah the the other options like in terms of getting guys with term who are right shot guys, who are effective, I don't think Sens would ever talk Chikrin, do you? Yeah, I think until he, does he have two years left? No, I think he's just got one after this one. He's got one after this one. Yeah.

So that's another thing is if they don't have visions of signing him long term and they already have a lot of money in that decoy bought and uh sanderson locked up big time yeah one year left at four six do they want to do they want to like i wonder if they fell out of it like they probably still think their season's not over they probably are justified in feeling that way right now but if ottawa feels like they're out of it it's it's exactly he's a left-handed shot though is he lefty yeah oh man um okay so savard top guy matheson i like but he's a left shot he's a left shot too the same thing chickering and matheson so savard he's a left shot too. He's a left shot too. The same thing. Chikrin and Matheson. So Savard's like your prime candidate. Right now

it's just yeah David Savard and Chris Tanov and Who else can chop it up out there? How about Jacob Middleton? Jacob Middleton. He's left too. He's left too? Yeah he's left too. Because I've been looking at all the butchers

and he's left too. Ristolainen? Bring meies? Because I've been looking at all the butchers. Ristolainen. Well, Labushkin. Bring me back Labushkin. Ristolainen. Bring me Labushkin, though. Labushkin, he's in Anaheim. They're dying on the vine.

I think after the Christmas break comes here, because I don't think anything's going to happen before Christmas, right? And then after that, it's like, Brad, fire the serious tech stuff. It's time to start making the serious calls. What I do think is that Lagasin and Benoit have bought the Leafs time where they don't have to do something. They can see if these guys take a step, but... Anyways. Okay, we're going to take a quick break.

When we come back, Aaron, Portsline covers the Columbus Blue Jackets for the Athletic. We'll join us and we'll get into what's going on with them a little bit and if the Leafs are going to see any fight at all out of this hockey club tonight. 7 o'clock puck drop. JB and I all over this game. Oh, yeah. I love it.

Sammy? Love it. Going to just sit back and watch us, eh? Yeah, I'll sit back and watch it. Then I'll do my show after. Chiming in from a distance. Okay. We're back after these words

breaking down the top stories in the nhl every day the jazz marriage show subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. Just waiting on Aaron Portslain, who will help us dissect what we're about to see tonight against the Toronto Maple Leafs. And that is, of course, the Columbus Blue Jackets. You know, if we go back, JB, a little bit to that series in the bubble with the Toronto Maple Leafs, which technically, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't an actual playoff.

No, it was a play-in. Playoff round. It was a play-in. Playoff round. It was a play-in. Yeah. So we had thought at that point that that organization had really good signs that they were going places, and it was led by Pierre-Luc Dubois. Well, the Blue Jackets, sorry. Yes. Okay, yeah. Right? Back then in the bubble? spaces and it was led by pierre luke dubois well the blue jackets are yes okay yeah right back then in the bubble did you not get a feel like this this is an up-and-coming team i'm not gonna

pretend i thought they were great but yeah i did there you know they had goaltenders they had some you know veteran experience they they did have some pieces i thought it was a coming out party for uh pierre-league dubois too yeah as a big physical centerman yeah who when it went toe-to-toe with austin matthews and and won turned out it wasn't a coming out party for the blue jackets but a coming down party for the toronto maple leafs is really what it was i also remember phenomenal goaltending too out of columbus at the time corpora sallow and elvis who will see tonight play they were really good they were really good there's no doubt about that uh tight defensive team the leafs just couldn't get inside god those are painful games no fans grinding defense from the blue jackets um you know looking at this blue jacket that never happened

boys oh yeah it also never happened i happened. I actually don't even. The COVID sports. Doesn't even count? No, they carried us through that time. But one of my big takes is like all that stuff is just total. So even the Stanley Cup, the Tampa Bay Stanley Cup doesn't really count. The one that really doesn't count and the one that got a lot of people off the hook is the Dodgers winning. And I mean, they are one of the classic choker franchises.

And they got off the hook by winning. It was like a 60-game season. But the Leafs couldn't have got their off-the-hook cup? No. Because this may be a crazy take. I call BS on you. If the Leafs would have won the bubble cup, you would have been the happiest guy in the world. I've said this. I don't know if I've ever said this on air, but I'll say on you. If the Leafs would have won the bubble cup, you would have been the happiest guy in the world.

I've said this. I don't know if I've ever said this on air, but I'll say it now. I'm happy the Leafs didn't win that cup because it would have been such crap for the fan base that would always have to listen to how it didn't count. You would never get the authentic. You would never, ever get to hear how great it was.

Ever. In like 75 years when you die, and by chance the Leafs don't have a cup. I'd rather have none. You'd rather have none than the bubble cup. Yeah, for sure. See, again, I call BS. No, I'm being honest.

I'm always honest in the game. But you get it. You get it. I get it. I kind of get it. I get it. Like, you know, you don't want that. Dodgers have no World Series, in my opinion.

And like Clayton Kershaw, who's one of the all-time great chokers, got that off the hook. I'm a guy where, like, a win's a win. Yeah, we're competing. We're on the ice against each other. A win's a win. All right.

Okay, let's welcome in Aaron Portsline from The Athletic, covering the Columbus Blue Jack. And, Aaron, thanks for joining us. How are you? Hey, good, guys. How are you? Thanks for having me. Good.

So, let's just start on your thoughts on maybe the disappointment so far out of the Columbus Blue Jackets and how that pertains to what we may see tonight versus the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, I mean, it's been, geez, some major issues. Johnny Gaudreau, Patrick Laine, both performing just way below their career tendencies, what you would expect from them. Gaudreau's picked it up here the last probably five, six games. Laine is still just a lost soul out there. He's on the third line tonight he's on that line tonight where there are pieces parts that don't fit anywhere else right now line uh cylinder in the middle he's got one goal in 25 he's got four goals in his last 89 the number 12 overall pick and kent johnson who's been up and down this year kind of of in and out with the lineup. So it's those twos.

And then there's a real issue with them having leads and not holding leads. There's been eight times now they've led in the third period and let it get away from them. You can just feel them tighten up in that situation. And you can just feel other teams, especially more experienced teams. This happened against Boston. And you'll, you'll sense it tonight, perhaps with Toronto, just really sensing blood in the water.

If they need to make a push late and the blue jackets have not been able to handle it. So those are two biggies. I could go on for a while here about what, what has cursed this club this season. Now they're starting to have some injuries as well. And Goodbranson is out tonight, third-pair defenseman. But I think those two are the two biggies that have really hit them hard to this point.

I know we are going to spend some time on some of the more challenging aspects of this season for Columbus. So just to set the stage for tonight, are there positives right now from this season for columbus so just to set the stage for tonight well are there positives right now from the season are there some guys are there some direction that that's positive yeah for sure there are um look no further adam fantilli this is obviously a really big game for him coming home to toronto he's been really good and if it weren't for a guy what's that guy's name in Chicago? Bedard.

People would be talking a lot more about Fantilli. Same with the draft last summer. He's been really, really good. And I think Pascal Vincent has been careful not to feed him too much. I think the kid wants more and more and more. He's going to get more now with Boone Jenner out. Tonight he's higher in the lineup. We'll see what his on-ice usage is.

He's been a good story. Dmitry Voronkov has been a really good story for this team. Number 10, it's hard to miss. He's 6'5". He was 240 at the end of camp. I think he's in the upper 220s now. Big guy, plays a big game, but he's got really soft hands. He anticipates well, so that makes up for his – he's not a bad skater per se, but that's a large caboose to move about the ice.

He's got some skill, and he's playing with two other Russians, and that line has kind of become a thing. There have been no lines in Columbus this year that's all over the place from game to game, but Chinnikov, Voronkov, and Marchenko have really been at times an effective line for Pascal Vincent, and they're together again tonight. So there are two bright spots.

One other I'll mention quickly. Elvis Merzlikens was god awful last year 876 save percentage i think he had seven wins the whole year maybe eight uh he has been not back to where he was a couple of years ago but certainly on his way toward that and a dramatically better goalie uh than he was last season. This is his first game back after a stint on IR with an illness, so who knows what you're getting tonight. But he's been a pretty good story for Columbus as well.

We're talking to Aaron Portsline, who covers the Columbus Blue Jackets for the Athletic. If we go back into training camp, just when you think about just that whole mike babcock fiasco and uh and how it was handled did it feel like it kind of trickled into the season are there ripple effects is it is the stink still on this organization based on on what happened in training camp or have they honestly moved on here? Well, I think it is a stink on the organization.

I don't think that just goes away when you make a hire like that, a really risky hire, and then have it backfire before you even make it onto the ice. So that, and all you had to do is read the statement from ownership to realize that Yarmulke, Kekalainen, and perhaps John Davidson are on a much shorter leash now than they were. And they won't say exactly what success means to them this year. But there's a sense among many that changes could be coming if this season's trajectory does not change. I honestly think the players, I don't feel like the players even really think about that now. I think there's probably a sense of, in some ways, a sense of relief that Babcock's

gone because God knows what he may have tried next if that's what he thought was appropriate upon first meeting them. But I also think there's probably a sense of the room that if you thought it was going to be easier necessarily under under Pascal Benson than it was going to be under Babcock. I think that's been a rough ride for some guys. Patrick Laine, a healthy scratch. Gaudreau benched. Damon Severson, who signs an eight-year contract this offseason with the Blue Jackets, is benched in his third game with his new team. Now, Vincent hasn't been as loud, maybe as rough a coach. I'm guessing his speeches in the dressing room have a little more sugar sprinkled on them than Babcock's would.

But he has not shied away from making difficult and kind of gutsy moves with veteran players early in the season, especially early in the season. So that kind of leads me to the theme of decision making here. Vincent making tough decisions about the players. You know, Jarmo has been there for a long time now and the team hasn't had success and isn't positioned to have immediate success now. Is there any heat the GM position in Columbus? Yeah, there's no question that that seat is as warm now as it's been since

Jarmo has been here. They had a stretch four straight years in the playoffs of course the year that they took out Tampa Bay in the first round. The next year they took out Toronto in the qualifying round. Since then, this sort of half rebuild, half rebuild on the fly kind of thing has not worked.

I think you can look at this team and see a lot of young players and see reason for optimism with them. But with Gaudreau and Laine struggling so badly, I mean, that's $17.5 million of their payroll, and the results haven't been close to that. There's a fair question. Can it work with both of them on this team? Can it work with those two guys at the top of your forwards? Are those the guys you need at the top of your heap? They've not worked well together when they've played together on a

line. So it's been a very weird fit that way. I think, yes. And we spoke with Mike Priest, the president of the business side, sort of the liaison between the hockey side and ownership here. And it's clear that ownership is extremely frustrated. They just changed the coach. You can't fire all the players. So I think the reasonable, the place to assume reasonably that the temperature has turned up is with Yarmulke Kalanen and again with John Davidson. I think to me, John Davidson's a bit in a different spot, 70 years old,

probably on the verge of retiring anyways, has had an incredible career as a player, a broadcaster, and an executive, almost unmatched in this game in that regard. My sense is that this ownership group would give him every chance to retire before they would just out and out fire him but Yarmulke Kalinin I think would be held to a different sort of standard Aaron besides maybe a frustrated ownership group which refuses to do anything significant uh you know with with Yarmulke where's the fan base there outside of the the babcock fiasco where yarmulke claims he did his due diligence and homework on babcock like i did for grade nine algebra right where where where is the fan base on this guy remaining as the general manager for, what, 10 years,

if I'm not mistaken, out of the first round once? Yeah. The third longest GM in the league right now. Third longest tenured GM in the league right now. They're extremely frustrated. All you have to do, and I don't want to steer you in this direction because that's not a safe place to be sometimes, but just look at the comments section on our website after every loss. I think there are two elements here that get the fans ire.

It is, number one, Jarmo Kekkalainen at this point. I think there's a lot of frustration among fans with him. And number two, ownership. I think many people, in some cases, I think not knowing where else to turn, they look at the one thing that's been common throughout the 23 years of this organization. And let's not kid ourselves, you know, the Tampa series, the Toronto win, that's great. We're also talking 23 years here and not a lot to show for. The losingest organization in the league since they've been in it, those are just the numbers.

So a lot of people point to ownership, too, as being perhaps too hands-off. It's funny how when you have a hands-on owner and your team sucks, you blame the owner for being hands-on. When you have a hands-off owner when the team sucks, you blame them for being hands-off. I think have a hands-off owner, when the team sucks, you blame them for being hands-off. I think they feel like the chemistry or rather the culture needs to be initiated and stated and put in place by ownership and isn't. Ownership's place has always been to put hockey people in charge

and stick with what you know. I think most people think that's probably the healthiest or best way to do it. But in times like this, they get some of the heat is along with Yarmul. But I do think Yarmul is at the top of most team, most fans list. Aaron, last one for me.

You know, we we've all seen line. I have these ups and downs over the years. So it's like, for me, it's not that shocking that he would be having an off season. Good row comes to Columbus off a 40 goal, 115 pointpoint season,

scores 20 and 74 points last year, four goals in 30 games. What's happening? Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, last year he was better. He was okay. I don't think anyone expected 115 out of him, given who he would be playing with. This year, honestly, there have been times, and again, he be playing with yeah this year honestly there have been times and again he's been better of late but there have been times where it looks like

like he's on a retirement plan here in columbus that he got the payday to come here a place where it wouldn't be a ton of pressure everyone would love him for coming here and maybe the drive just isn't there as it was in Calgary. Maybe he, as much as he loathed a coach like Daryl Sutter, maybe he needs that pressure applied. I don't know. You know, I think back to the time when the Blue Jackets signed him too. It was a weird signing in that this was the team that was rebuilding, right? And they knew they were in the early stages of that.

But if you think back to where this club was there with all of the players that have left, and that became their reputation, the place where the good players punch the clock and then leave. Panarin, Bobrovsky, Seth Jones, I could go on. And here is this superstar player, certainly a player coming off a superstar-caliber season, saying, I'll go there. Do you really expect the Columbus Blue Jackets to pass on that? No.

Right. I mean, so now they've got him, and they already had line A, but, again, the two just do not mix. But, you know, Gaudreau, again, is starting to move his feet, starting to create. There's a case to be made, too, that this team is not chock full of finishers, that some of his better plays and passes go to die on other sticks. That's fair to a point. He was nonexistent the first 20 games of the season,

just not engaged and not there, not a special player. Johnny Gaudreau, no matter what team he's on, you notice him when he's playing well because he always has the puck. He's always going 400 miles an hour. And that just wasn't the case through 20 games. I think he was frustrated. I think he got pissed off by some of the coverage he got here. I think he expected it to be a always welcome, thanks for just being here.

And maybe through this he's learned that that's just not the case. There's frustration for him as well. Aaron, we really appreciate your time. Thanks for doing this. Enjoy the game tonight. Yeah, anytime, guys. Thanks for having me. Thanks, Forty. Aaron Portsline from The Athletic covering the Columbus

Blue Jackets. Johnny Gaudreau was plus. Yeah, they need centermen. I get it. Liney is no good this year. Neither is Johnny, but they're asking

Fentilly to be your number one centerman tonight. And you know how I feel about too much too soon. Yeah. By the way, Goodrow was plus 64 in Calgary's last season. Plus 64. Plus 64? Minus 33 last year with Columbus. Almost a

100-goal swing for him. Once again, our thanks to Aaron Portsline talking Columbus. We still got our national show here on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show coming up for the next hour. And then at 6.30 JB and I,

Sportsnet, Columbus versus the Toronto Maple Leafs from Scotiabank Arena. Stick around. Plenty more here on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. And I'll tell you how to fix up Columbus. Oh, nice.