Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Reaves's Role + Midweek Mailbag
Episode Date: January 8, 2025Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' 3-2 win over the Philadelphia Flyers to pick up their fifth straight victory. They get into the history of Toronto and Philly's rivalr...y, Ryan Reaves' role, the Leafs' sleepy start and whether it could be chalked up to a late night out on the mentor's trip. Then, they discuss options for the struggling power play, the top line's dominance and another stellar start from Joseph Woll. Finally, they dip into the mailbag to answer your Leafs-related questions, including what a Matthew Knies extension would cost, Craig Berube's case for the Jack Adams Award and the Leafs' top targets at the trade deadline.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.
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It's the real Kipper and born show.
The Kipper is Justin born Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jake Schultz with you for the next
two hours.
You're live on sports at five 90 the fans for Sportsnet 360 and Sportsnet Plus. As we kick it into our Leaf Hour edition of our show, where the Toronto Maple Leafs are now
enjoying their first five game winning streak of the season. Makes our job real easy to come out here.
Or hard. When you play like last night, you're're gonna win a lot of hockey games. Let me tell you what a performance
undeniable
Last night. I'm sorry to be a cynic last night was our I don't know our sixth or seventh
leaf midweek game that we've uh
Been a part of along with david amber and elliot freeman. I don't recall ever Sammy coming up to me before today
saying, hey, good show last night.
No, that may have been the first time.
Oh, great.
Yeah.
Nice face, man.
What was great about it?
I got home from work
and I fully thought it was a seven o'clock puck drop,
so I turned on the TV at seven.
I didn't see that. And I happened to stumble across you guys doing a wonderful half an hour pregame show which I flipped back and
Forth the Bruins and Oilers
But I watched you guys do an awesome breakdown of all the brawls
Between the the Leafs and the Flyers and I felt like kind of an idiot like to not bring it up
Even when we were talking with the Reeves stuff and like the all the stuff heading in
Leafs Flyers is like one of the great lost rivalries
for Leaf fans.
When I was a kid growing up,
they were a top three most hated franchise,
not even close.
Well, and that whole Leafs Flyers,
the many packs that we had of that,
there wasn't the hit on Kaepernick and the Roanico,
none of that, it was all just about the physical stuff alone.
It was cool.
Lot of history.
The Reeves Hathaway stuff I thought was cool too.
That Elliott did.
It was my era, right?
That's what I grew up with right from the get go.
My first visions of being seven and eight years old
were the introduction of the Philadelphia Flyers
and the Broad Street Bullies.
And then you became one.
I mean, you were a part of that for years in the American League.
In the American League, I never got a chance to put that uniform on during a regular season
game but that's what I grew up with.
So when we were building the show yesterday and our producer, Matt Marstrom, had asked
me how I felt about tonight's game, the first thing that came to mind for me was, hey, got a little bit of animosity against
the Philadelphia Flyers and the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Why don't we grab a few clips of the last 40 years, 50 years, and have some fun with
it, which we did.
And the response actually was really good.
People loved it.
And that's very funny because at the end of the pack, you know, contrasting the eras and I was like,
yeah, what are we gonna get tonight?
It's Connor Dewar, it's whoever.
We're gonna fight.
And that's all we got, it was a Connor Dewar fight.
I wouldn't have called for it,
but we had traces of it coming out of Sunday night
with, like you said, Hathaway
and now Ryan Reeves in the lineup.
And it was kind of building
that way including our sound bites from Kippers Clippers yesterday when Craig Broove he said I
want a bigger lineup that's it that's I want a bigger tougher lineup well what does that mean
going against the Philadelphia Flyers apparently nothing and then it kind of disappointed me yeah
wires. Apparently nothing. And then it kind of disappointed me. Yeah. I have to say, I have to say that the one with Ty with Sandy McCarthy and Berube and the four guys chasing
him down the ice. Well, he was that's incredibly common. I was having to pick one and he ended
up I think going out of my little bit both. And then I don't know who was that because
Mike Johnson was on the ice that time Damon Lankow young Damon
Lankow didn't realize that he was out there but like
Ty for some reason was like behind
Cabral a hiding behind Cabral a and then coming in and punching the guy that
Just doesn't have it anymore. I just brought me back to my youth. I used to love that stuff. I'll be so excited
I think the media yesterday were just prior to the game missed an opportunity to go, hey,
remember that?
Yeah.
Tell us about that.
What was going through your mind?
You were a big bad Philadelphia Flyer.
You're up against Tye Domey.
How badly did you want to kill Tye?
Well some came to that.
And now his son's on your team.
Let's get him on the show and ask him about that.
I'll get on that.
Yeah.
Is he dodging us? I don't know. He actually had him on when he first got the job and ask him about that. Oh, yeah, yeah, is he dodging us?
I don't know. I actually had him on when he first got the job and not did we yeah
Yeah, remember that first week after signing the contract and that happens hurt a whole lot from uh, yeah, it's
My next Toronto Star article I'll butter him up for us. Oh, yeah, absolutely
Love it, and we'll get him on no, I just those stuff. It was great watching that
I just brought me back and like the guy falling into the penalty box watch the lawsuit tie like one of the all-time
Harry Neil that wants them to get each
Rooting for it. He's openly rooting. I think tie in that guy who fell into the penalty box. They're like decent buddies now. Oh, yeah
Oh, they they made up. Yeah, but there was a guy who knows a big thing after that
I remember it being like a really big story for quite some time, but it was great
He's spraying the water bottle it just hockey used to rock man
Okay, so last night. Yeah, so last night
I kind of built it up a little bit for for Ryan Reeves and to the point where I just assumed
Something was gonna happen between the two of them at what point I said
Didn't have to be in the first five minutes didn't have to be in the first period
But apparently it didn't have to be in the first period the second period or the third period
You know and Barube seemed to want it to happen.
He got Reeves out there for three shifts in the first six, seven minutes and two of them
against Hathaway.
Kind of gave him his opportunities, if nothing else.
So you know, not upset that he didn't fight him, but like there was no conversation, like
no talking on the bench, no, I'm coming for you.
Like he just kind of played the game and went home,
which is really surprising given who he is,
what his role is.
He hadn't been playing much.
You think this is his chance to be like,
I'll remind everyone what I'm here for.
Could I ask you this question, Kipper?
Because last night on Leafs Talk,
we did a round of the game and you know,
you're heated after watching the game
and having it not happen.
Like I think it's pretty bad He didn't fight him in that game
And you know you can say that he tried to engage him off a couple face-offs and there was conversation between the two of them
But what I said, and I'll ask you is I think there comes a point where this guy fights your best
Defenseman takes him out. I mean it's not his fault. He falls in the ice
But the results of the result you kind of have to leave
Them no choice
That's what I said. I don't know if that's right or wrong
And at a certain point throughout the hockey game I agree with you the closer it got to
The halfway mark to towards the end of the period towards the end the third period, there had to have been something to say,
this is where
I've got such a ton of respect for the guys that have done it for almost 15 or 20 years and to me one of
the very very best that I've seen and I've
played with a lot of tough guys, but Tye Domi
was the greatest at leaving messages, either
backing him up with his fists or just leaving you scared or worried.
He had a feel for...
He had a feel.
Like, even in that video, right?
Yeah.
That we watched with Felix Potvin and Ron Hexdahl fighting, okay?
And he's on the bench.
No, no, but he's not just on the bench
sitting like 18 other guys.
He's at the gate and he's a presence.
With no jersey on.
You know, like there's.
Turpin Hexdahl, you're leaking.
Turpin something, pointing fingers.
He's a presence that he makes himself part of the story.
And that's what you want out of your tough guy
is that he's always part of the story.
He's always a part of the animosity,
even if he's not dropping his gloves. Whereas
I watched Ryan Reeves last night act like he's one of 18 guys just going out there and
playing the game like nothing's happened Sunday night. And I'm not going to rip on the guy.
The guy's been around the league a long time. He's hanging in there. He's made himself one of the better, tougher guys in this era. He's done a lot of things right
over his career to get to that point. But last night, the best way I can describe it
for me is I was disappointed that he wasn't a bigger presence in what we were talking
about when it came to the follow up of losing one of your better defensemen.
One thing that stands out to me, yeah, that is well said, but one thing that stands out
to me is like, I think guys who have played Ryan Reeves role over their career, you come
in young and hungry to prove yourself and I'll fight anyone and I don't care when, who,
whatever.
By the time they get towards the end of their career I don't think they love doing anymore
And maybe they never did love doing it and you could speak to that better than I can
But you know I look at Tide Omi's fight card 24 in one year 26 26 20 14 18 fights in the last few years
It's you know 18 13 10 7 you know and it's down to what you know not zero right no no I know that but
The times are different, too
But I do think these guys like to fight less as they go on it
No, no question. No question and you don't have to fight as many as times as Ty did
But what you need to do is still have an effect and a presence
because of what you bring to the table and
It's just not about and I tried to tell this last night,
it's just not about dropping your gloves.
It's about how much anxiety
that you can press on your opponent.
It's sometimes the fear of what may happen
is just as bad and crippling to you as the actual act.
And that's where Ryan Reeves had so much room just as bad and crippling to you as the actual act.
And that's where Ryan Reeves had so much room to play with last night.
He could have gone around and said,
hey, Hathaway, you don't wanna meet me at center, right?
So that's fine, I'm going to get your best defenseman.
I'm going to get that guy.
If, hey, and then you go up to Mishkov and say,
listen, if that guy doesn't fight me, I'm coming after you.
And then you know what Mishkov says?
Can you go deal with him, please?
Get him off my back.
Well, Scott Lawton dealt with him way in the game.
At the end of the day, it didn't matter
because Mishkov and the rest of them didn't really kind of,
they're not that type of team
and they're not expected to win.
And they're a weak opponent last night as
We found out because the Leafs certainly didn't play their a game and they still find a way to get their game breakers in
And win a hockey game, but there'll be times when you're playing a tougher opponent maybe
meaningful games either in March or the playoffs like a
Florida Panthers or Vegas Washington and you're
gonna have to gonna have to step up a lot more than we saw last night.
One thing is you know I'll note here is on the big picture of what this means
for the Leafs season it's probably just that Ryan Reeves is not he's not gonna
be in their lineup like that's I mean that's if you don't do the thing you do
Yeah, then we'll just put Lawrence in with a zero parents. That's awesome
Nick Robertson put Nick like if Ryan was gonna be that quiet and you weren't gonna be a presence
Put Nick Robertson back here and it's a strike right? I think Ryan Reeves is a bad player. He's fine
He's fine he's fine
But like if it's you're right like Robertson has at least this other element and so that maybe changes some of their decision-making
I thought that's just the part that kind of frustrated me because
We've talked about their fourth line that they've put together here with Dewar who you know had a good night last night through
Good tilt got the gloves off you know Dewar
Camp and Lorenz has been a really effective fourth line
Bobby McMahon told me Robertson has its warts. It's been a really good third line though, but that's not great defensively
But whatever there been a decent third line for the Leafs
You totally change the entire lineup to chew horn a guy in there for a pretty
to chew horn a guy in there for a pretty obvious reason.
And when that doesn't happen, he's minus one, he plays six minutes, it looks bad on everybody.
I feel bad for him that the one went off a stick
and went in, because he's kinda in the right spot
in my opinion there.
Anyway, so we discussed the fight between Durer and Farabee
in the first intermission.
I think, Cathy, one of our producers said
that maybe Joe went on local radio or TV to
identify that he asked Conor for the fight.
I have the clip.
Oh, do you have the clip?
I don't have it on the line up, but I got Derek to record it.
We play that clip there, Derek?
This is scary.
Okay.
Askew, Conor Dure, when were some magic words exchanged?
What led to you guys dropping the gloves?
Yeah, it just was a little quiet in the the building so I figured I'd ask him.
Yeah, you know, thankfully gave me one. He's a really good guy so I appreciate
him giving me one there. I thought it was a pretty good fight.
It makes me laugh guys. I gotta be honest with you. It just makes me laugh and it's okay.
Bad laugh, good laugh.
Well, I'm an old man laugh.
Okay.
How about that one? So like... Bad laugh, good laugh. Well, I'm an old man laugh. Okay.
How about that one?
So like.
Well, but there was respect among your fighting brethren
even when you fought and when you played.
I think, yeah, there was.
And like, I'm not saying that.
He broke K-Fabi.
I'm not saying that that never happened
where you would thank a guy for taking a fight with you,
but it wouldn't be
seconds after maybe after a beer.
I wouldn't be in front of your teammates, your coach, your
general manager, your owner and 18,000 people kids these days
that fight then right if everyone still know animosity.
No, what's the point?
I got that, they look like there's some animosity
when they're going.
Well it's a good thing, both of them were.
But what purpose does it serve then,
if it's like, oh there's no tension here,
it's just for show.
Pump me up.
Yeah, but it's entertainment value,
it's not serving a help you win a hockey game purpose.
And the Leafs did not respond to it well.
He could have easily done the same thing
right after a game, underneath between the dress rooms
as a team maybe is on its way to the bus.
It could have happened with a text
because everybody knows everybody's cell.
It could have happened over a beer in a bar
which happened all the time.
I do want to clarify, I loved it.
Like I think it's cool that they're like cool
with each other and still punch each other.
But I get your point from a hockey standpoint it makes no sense if you are
You know of covering another sport if you're like a football writer or a basketball writer baseball writer
And you see that clip you're like cheese these hockey guys are animals like that's just that's what you're thinking just
Like I love your passion. I mean without it. You're not on our show
That's the best way I can describe you and I completely agree. Yeah
give me
Canada USA World Juniors give me
Canada US Olympics give me
Give me a high event where your heart and soul is in it
event where your heart and soul's in it. You watch any exchange like that, either on the benches or in the penalty box between
a Canada, US guy giving each other thumbs up.
Oh my God, I'm sick.
Right.
I'm sick.
What are you, chumming it up with him?
I'm sick to my stomach.
Scram.
Eat it.
I get mad when Vlad is yucking it up with somebody at first base in July.
So like, yeah, I'm sick to my stomach.
Why should we sit there and watch it and say,
okay, for game number 41 out of 82?
So I think it's more-
Either we're trying to beat them or beat,
like, Jake McCabe took Hathaway's head
and he cranked it in the ice
before he went down Sunday night, okay?
So how do you go from that to, hey thanks pal.
I want everybody the same.
I'd rather you want to drive a guy's head into the ice
than give thumbs up to each other
and pat each other on the back for whatever reason you want.
Yep.
It's funny because they're two separate things.
It's like that was cool, but I get your point here.
And it's funny as I get older, because I hear my junior hockey coach talking to me about
Not taking things seriously enough sometimes which is a bit of a trend in my hockey career
And and now I you know, I can see it more how it's like
It doesn't work. It doesn't make sense. Are we are we doing this or are we not in it?
I think it was way more on Farabee's side than it was way more way more
Doerr seems like a pretty intense guy to be honest. Doerr is maybe the Leafs most intense. Yeah, like I and you know
He yeah, you know, no, no, this is this is on Farabee for for you know
Thankfully gave me one. I think it's just the fact
You know, we're we're in this era where we have to just like
share everything, our inner feelings, our cameras in the dressing room, following us
to the bathroom.
Just because you don't want to see a therapist doesn't make the whole era a mess.
Give us a little mystique for God's sakes in this game still.
Is Gen Z the laziest generator?
I love it. Oh, that's good. Sorry.
So all that gave us something to talk about, well, not talking about the fact that,
that stunk last night. That first period, the Leafs were abominable.
They couldn't connect on a pass. They got two shots. That was awful.
Two goals on what, nine shots or something?
Well, two goals on six shots at one point. On six shots. Yeah, I fully blame Joe Thornton
Yes, let's go off in a new take no like
You know
It's a pretty big deal for this they get the mentors trip and like even Barubei yesterday in the pregame was like yeah
They went out I didn't like he mentioned that
That was like I mean we could we break down all you want to break down and everything you want to talk about and systems
And everything it's like
A bottle of wine that's red. Yeah, that was a baby a red wine first period for the boys there
Is that a lot of to say those of you don't know?
There's so many issues just be a dad's trip. Then it turned into a dad and mom's trip.
And then it turned into like-
God, the poor moms had to watch
Conor's Aries on me yesterday.
I'm telling you right now, I'm calling it right now,
there will be a pet's trip.
Oh my God, I can't believe they haven't done that.
That's such a good idea.
I'm telling you, horse is back.
When you hear me sarcastic,
that is gonna be huge PR.
I know this era.
This is coming.
Are you listening, Leafs PR? I know this era. Are you listening, Leafs PR?
I know this era.
Pets trip.
You're not wrong.
Brought to you by Chewy.
They already got Max Domi doing Chewy commercials.
So last night was a mentor's trip.
Yeah.
And I don't get the Joe Thornton,
Austin inviting Joe Thornton as a mentor.
I don't get it. I found it a strange pick
Would you like to make your case for why? No you
You tell me why you
Tell me why you liked it. No, I didn't say I liked it. I said I get it
In listening to Matthew's comments about why Joe Thornton was his mentor it's about
The captaincy and he likes the energy and inclusion that Thornton brought with the team
Oh, everyone's a part of it and bringing the boys together and it's all about the guys and Joe Thornton brought that energy
And he liked that he wanted to bring himself out of his shell the way Thornton does
That's part of it. The second part of it is you can totally see these guys over like a red wine
Hmm being like the next mentors trip. Let's get them to pay for a trip bring me. I want to come out anyway
Let's just have the Leafs pay. I'll come out. I'll get to sit in the room again. It's like these guys hacked the system
This was not the intent of the trip no two. This is two guys, they go to Vegas every summer,
these two.
This is like, yeah, he's my mentor.
Yeah, he's my mentor, he's my...
That's why I found it so strange.
That's my case to you, is that they talk all the time.
He's not a real mentor.
It's not a real mentor.
It's a cheap way to bring a pal around.
These things are for the dads, the moms,
the brother, the moms, the brother,
the best buddy, your pet coming up soon to a team near you.
It's for people that have never had the opportunity to go.
Blue dog would be a pain.
Never had the opportunity to go.
You're talking to a guy that made $100 million
and did this for 20 straight years.
Like, Gilmore was there and Wendell was there.
If you want Joe there so badly,more was there and Wendell was there. If you want Joe there
so badly, just invite Joe with Wendell and to hang out with Wendell and Doug. You don't
need them to be a mentor. He probably doesn't have a mentor. Not everyone has a mentor and
he's like, oh, we get to bring someone? Like, what you doing Joe? Like, you know, like he's
already taught him how to photobomb naked trips to grab picture. Would you come on my mentors?
Would you come on my mentors trip my mentor
You know the joke thing is complicated here because came at the end of his career
Wasn't particularly great. Superstar who never won anything you didn't want that from Matthews?
And there's the famous clip that we've talked about for four years in this show
where
Sheldon Keefe is having the meeting and it's on the Amazon or whatever one of those ones they did where it was Elise
they're having this meeting about some of their
the stuff that's been wrong with them and like what's what's they got to work on and all this stuff and then
Thornton is just like wow we're in first place
Right, and I'm never being like
Everyone I think he's won a ton of playoffs
He's a
He's a legend he's a legendary hockey player. But I'm not sure for like, Leaf fan.
I'm not the only Leaf fan that feels this way.
A perception of a player has changed in less time than him.
And he kind of holds that.
They blew that seriously to Montreal.
He was on the team.
A lot of Leaf fans kind of feel that way.
You wanted it to be Mark Messier.
Someone like a captain who's won again.
I will elbow you in the larynx. What's like Joe Saka got through? But he's running a team. Or like, what'm gonna get you know, I will elbow you I was gonna say what layering what's like, you know Joe sacca got through but he's running a team or like what's like
you know, it's just a
Great captain who's had you know got over the hump is God loved jumbo Joe, but there's just a complicated relationship
So there I said, so now I will be your mentor. Thanks, buddy
You've already been his mentor
Rude all right Sounds like you've already been his mentor, judging by some of these opinions. Oh, oh, rude.
All right.
You want to go to a Kipper's Clipper?
We haven't even got to the overview of the game
for the first one.
We didn't even get one Kipper's Clipper.
We're already 24 minutes in.
How about the overview of the game from Craig Brewery?
That's all good.
No, it's all good?
It's all good.
Play the one in the first period,
because it talks about the power play.
OK.
So do the one in the first period, clip two.
I thought we were going early.
I thought we were playing the right way and just missing the net.
The power play I thought set us back. You know, that power, the two power plays we had were not
good. Obviously they, it got good, but which is good for, you know, it's good they recovered,
but you know, I think the power play kind of hurt our momentum in the first period.
Is that why you led to the PP1 change there?
Yeah, just change it up and see if we can get a spark going and it worked.
We gave midseason report cards last night on our telecast.
I think all of us were like in the Cs.
Like if we broke it down into power play, penalty killing, it'd be around a B, I guess, for a penalty killing.
Yeah.
But the power play is...
In case we could.
If Mitch Marner doesn't have the puck in making plays,
I'm not sure if anyone else is capable.
You don't pass.
Well, what...
Thank you.
You don't pass.
And I've said that for a long time.
Even with Mitch Marner having it,
the only thing they create typically is off broken plays
where Mitch or someone sees a seam
and makes it off a breakdown, right?
They're talented and they take advantage of a breakdown.
Like I've said this a million times,
but the list of things that Tampa Bay wanted to do
on their power play last year was like,
okay, it was a one-timer to Stamkos,
B was a one-timer to Kucherov,
three was a one-timer from Hedman, four was a one-timer into point,
five was a tip in front with Cerelli. Yeah bump. You know into the you know like you had this list
of like here is their check down list. It's like for me all right the least power play what's option
one? Okay Matthews hasn't shot a one-timer into the net this season on the power play so that's not it.
Mitch makes a play. Kind of lands on Tavares' stick in the sweet spot and he pokes it in or Willie hammers
one once in a while.
It's probably a Tavares net jam.
Yeah, that's like the go-to play.
But on the flip side of it their penalty kill has been so good.
Right?
Like it's just, I don't know, maybe it'll just suck all year and they get high at the
start of the playoffs.
That'd be nice.
I kind of hope it's just the inverse of every other year.
That'd be good. But anyways. hope it's just the inverse of every other year. That'd be good. But anyways.
But it has sucked. Like every spring.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's actually been pretty good during regular seasons. So I mean, are you just hoping
it's a hope and a prayer that it reverses this year?
What's your expression? Hope is not a plan? Yeah, it's not a plan.
I don't like the chances unless something changes.
And I think the only thing left is personnel.
But Kipper, they've done that.
They've gone five forwards.
They broke it up.
They've done all of Rickman-Larson at the top.
They've done this guy at the top.
They've tried all the...
I want to blame the coat.
I want to blame everything
as much as possible, but at some point, it's just a mix of guys. It's always...
It lacks chemistry.
It does.
It's tough though, guys, because they said, oh, it's been good in the regular season,
but it hasn't been good in playoffs. Well, the regular season is a lot of hockey and
they've been the best top three power play in the league for over a five year span.
They've been excellent on the power play and in the playoffs they had the year they finally
won a playoff round.
They were really good.
They were over 20% that year.
Every other year.
What a concept.
I know.
So it's not like they can't do it is my point.
It's not like, ah, these guys, it doesn't work because it has worked.
I don't know what needs to be different.
Do you have a suggestion that way?
The only thing is, is every time I see them,
they're not moving their feet.
They got their head up.
That's Edmonton.
Stick handling.
David circles a lot.
That's harder to be that for them.
Lack of movement.
It just seems one thing.
97 helps.
Part of it though, I think is that there is a good passer even yes
Oh, yeah, but this is the thing is that their guys are pretty one-dimensional Mitch Marner went over a hundred games without a powerplay goal
He's a passer and Matthews is not a pass. He is a shooter
So it's not like every guy is like Kucherov who can't shoot it or I don't think they have enough passers
They have one passer. Well, what's Riley? Not shooter. I mean, he's not I don't see great great
Seam passes from him either. I think that's the reason a lot of people wanted him off the top unit is because his function up
There I mean he's good at keeping the puck in at the line. Actually, that's one of his skills
He's really good at but outside of that he's okay at everything. Yeah, he's okay there. He's pretty good at everything
Yeah, but he's not great at everything. I think I think it's
Game-winning goal. I mean it wasn't a power play goal nice, but he can get
An occasion player. He's a good player puck to the net. Yes for redirect. Yep, but that's not movement
That's just pucks to the net. Yeah, that's a great face-off when I was back there and right the Granite man
Nice goes to
Farris's strength as we've always said is around that that area and he can shoot it
in the net but he's not a he's not a passer he's not a great dish or me it's not the one
thing because you could put max domey out there he's a passer but he's like Marner it's
like he's not gonna there again they're onedimensional. It's like there's not this other element
that you know, everyone kind of knows what those guys are gonna do on a two-on-one or on any sort of rush, so I
Don't know. I don't know what the answer is, but that's on them to figure out because the talent is there and it might have to be a
Unit that's more orchestrated with more options. Bobby McMahon may need to be a part of it because he can pass or shoot You know, I don't know You want to get to it? I was gonna say top line looks amazing
Nice Matthews and Mara. Yeah, they're going has looked really last night. I thought they were pretty good last night
Yeah, that's the difference in the game
They have the best players on the rink and they make a few plays couple shifts in the third period where those three guys were just
Hounds on the puck in the offensive zone cycling noticed last night that they had that great offensive zone shift with eight minutes left
Then they put Devarra's out and went right back to him
And that's good. That was a good move by Ruby to get his top line and offensive zone face-off
Mm-hmm. There's your game-winning goal. Yeah, you want a quick clip on nice? Yeah, let's play it. All right
Good three, please very fearless goes hard to the net skates hard
All right, clip three, please. Very fearless, goes hard to the net, skates hard.
You know, he's hard to handle.
You know, that's the way I look at it.
Like he challenges D-Man with his speed and his skill.
And he's heavy, you know, he gets in there and it's hard to handle.
I think that's a perfect way to put it.
Yeah, guys go to he goes to the front of the net and got a great stick
and guys can't move him.
Yeah, they're really as you want that guys there like I don't think he's a really good transition player
But like once he gets in the offensive zone, he's really really a fat guy. He's had a puck touches
He had a reset about a week ago where I
Just think he's starting to figure it out after I don't know hundred
ten games 115 games that, you know, sometimes
you could be too early. You could be too early on a four-check. You could be too early to
get to the net. You know, once you kind of relax a little bit and feel it and have your
timing down a little bit more, less college, more NHL pro. So many games. He can go to another level.
So that's very positive right now where his game is at.
Joseph Wall?
Another good one.
Another reason they win, right?
If it's Matt Murray or who I shouldn't pick on Murray.
If it's not Wall, I don't know if they win last night.
How many times have you said that?
How many times have we said that? How many times have we said that?
So many.
So many.
He just looks really solid.
He gives one up and he's right back.
He doesn't look like he's shaken by it.
In his last five starts, five starts, he's 5-0-0,
10 goals against a 934 save percentage.
Like those battles in the crease,
like he holds his ground.
17-7-2 when being out shot this
season 17 wins leads the NHL yeah that's a heck of a stat yeah there they have a
really good record in one goal games too these things are all goaltending
connected it's also almost comical how anti-Keefe it is.
The way they play.
Like the way they're winning.
Yeah.
Like it's the reverse.
Get out played, get out shot, goalie plays great.
Every night is a reverse of what I watched
for five seasons with the Leafs.
Where it's like they'd out play, out shoot,
like fire the puck on that 100 times,
and then the other team would come down and shoot to in the net
Opportunistic and then it would be over last night the expected goals were one point seven eight for Toronto three point eight two for Philly
Wow, there you go steal one steal two points on the road. Yeah
So now I
Don't look and critique of a win too hard and they're getting they're getting their points, right?
But well six points cleared the Florida now in the Atlantic for first place. The but is that
You'd you'd you play 82 games and there's really only
A dozen games that you can go marquee
A dozen games that you can go marquee. Okay, let's see what you got games
It's not against the Islanders. It's not against Philly
Not against necessarily Detroit or Buffalo, Carolina Thursday, maybe
I don't know where I have Carolina. I
Today I really thought that they were a top team in New Jersey, Carolina. I really thought they were top team, but to me they're
they're now
legitimately below a Washington Capitals or
Tampa got a much night even New Jersey. I have New Jersey ahead of Carolina. So
They lost last night, Carolina. Yeah last minute minute point scored. To Tampa Bay? Yep.
But, they should be a better challenge.
We should, listen, if the Leafs play like they did against Philadelphia, they lose tomorrow
night.
Tough schedule coming up for the Leafs, as Sam was alluding to.
It's Carolina, Vancouver, Dallas, New Jersey.
But then Montreal.
You know, we've got a handful of what we think are deep or good teams. Right?
Yep.
That's 32 in the league.
We're only talking about six.
Vegas is going.
I'd like to see the Leafs play Vegas tomorrow night.
Unfortunately, you're not going to get to see that.
That's a while.
I know.
But Vegas, maybe the most complete team right now.
So I mean, it's hard to complain about victories.
Just take your points.
As you know, it's January, it's the dog days.
It keeps you observed when you lose, you know?
Take your points when you don't deserve them.
Yeah, there's been a couple here,
I'm like, they could maybe pick it off a touch.
Yeah.
They don't need to get walled a bail note.
The one thing, so I know we gotta get to break,
but I do have a theory on this,
which is basically the way Craig Borubey is asking them to play that hard nose hit, four check,
block shots.
You can't do it 82 times plus two months of playoffs.
Just your body, it's not, we're not able to do that.
So it doesn't look great when you're playing a physical intense style kind of turned down
a little bit after some red wine at a steakhouse.
But I do think that when they turn it up Saturday night against Boston on hockey night in
Canada it's like, ooh that looks good. Yeah. You know there's something there.
The one thing that I wouldn't want the Leafs to get too used to is playing
without Jake McCabe. Yeah that's a big, big hole. Big hole. And it's really
concerning because the you know the second
Bonk to the head that he's had in less than a month
And it's just like then it becomes easier to get him and it's scary
But the word I think we had heard was that maybe better than
what I thought initially we'll see but
So I threw out a mailbag thing for when we had a mailbag
We're gonna do this every Wednesday
I think where we just get for the back half of the lease hour
after whatever we talked about in the store,
we're gonna get a bunch of people texting in
and telling us what they want us to say.
Old Ben Watzuck went in the mailbag the other night.
And I got a million questions that we don't have.
We've spent way too long yelling about Reeves and Dewar
and all that.
We're addicted to screen time.
Yeah, but we got a lot, so let's go.
Okay, Sammy, we got your mailbag when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne.
Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL, the JD Bunkus podcast. Subscribe and download
the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you.
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Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. that sound. Very good. So I even put it out on TikTok too.
I'm really trying to grow the hashtag.
I like that.
And you got a good response.
Yeah, I got lots of stuff.
Sammy used TikTok.
He could use a TikTok by the way.
His zigzags team.
That was just too many.
Yeah, I put out a TikTok asking for beer league players and I have now enough to field a
regular team and an AHL team, so we're good to go.
All right, this is from Skippy on TikTok.
How much is the Nice contract going to cost
after the Hattie?
Skippy, love it Skippy.
Well, it didn't get cheaper.
He should have signed him when he was playing like crap.
Yeah, 17 game pointless drought, here's your money.
Yesterday's price is not today's price.
Here's the problem is when you go through Skid still at his age, you're like, you start
questioning how good is he going to be really?
Yeah.
Right?
Yes.
And that's the trick. That's the dilemma here.
Leafs aren't, I know there's general managers and presidents with a ton of experience, but
it's like a crystal ball to them too, looking into it, trying to figure it out.
How good are you?
What is a good price?
Seven million? five million.
I think part of the concern is you look at like a contract
like Matty Beniers gets and you're like,
oh, maybe they were too soon on that
or I know you don't love Owen Power at times,
but maybe Samuelson on that team,
like some of these long-term deals you give guys
and then you're like, oh,
they're not who we thought they were gonna be.
So there's that concern. I am a nice believer
I'm a nice believer and I think you could do long-term. I
Would do it as soon as you can
bridge or long-term always
six years it's always
About your comparables and where you think you are up against others in the league.
So how far you want to take the control off of it
to bridge it as you'd say, or do you hedge it
and try to give him an eight year deal
that he can't refuse,
that you think in four years will be a bargain?
Well, and that massive salary cap rise,
like if you're nice,
you might want to do two years at five million or something
and say, yeah, let that number go up and let me put up some numbers and then we'll talk.
But yeah, for the Leafs, would you do like six times seven million?
It's a lot of money, right?
But you're asking for six years from a guy who might score 30 goals a year.
You're not doing six, you're doing eight. You got a lot. If you're going six, you're asking for six years from a guy who might have a go. No, you're not doing six You're doing eight you got a lot of the way that point you're going six. You're going eight. Okay, okay, so
eight times seven fifty six
whatever like
It is
Nice or his agent gonna come back and say, you know, we want the Slavkowski deal
What's that one? Would you trade? No.
Knives?
No.
For Slavkowski?
I absolutely would not.
So why are you not paying me?
Why are you not paying me the same as him?
How many Slavkowski have this year?
Two, three goals?
Slav is under contract till 2030 at seven points today.
So why wouldn't you pay me that?
Yeah, it's a great point by you, Mr. Kipper's agent.
That's a great point.
I mean, by Knives' agent, that's a great point by you. Mr. Kipper's agent. That's a great point. He nice his agent. That's a great point by you
Costy things tough. He had 20 last year for 50 points. I'm gonna have this year
I he only has four this okay
Well, which guy do you think he is you think he's gonna be an eight goal scorer or more than that?
Hey, maybe a solid 15 goal score
He should be he should be able to score 50 60 points every year and be a power guy
I would say at a minimum
I would hope I'll do not talking about some stuff cost I am to okay 632 30
I don't want a career year. He's 20 at a career year. Could he shoot it in the net 30 times?
Yes, 35 times absolutely on a bad year 25
So that's nice like that's very nice like but
So that's nice like that's very nice like but
You know, do we not think this love cost you ceiling sire? Anyway, we're quibbling over a stupid thing
Are they the same ballpark? They are. Yeah ballpark ballpark. Okay, maybe less than that half a million
Yeah, 250 thousand seven point one times eight done. So now that we're on the nice conversation I got this tweet today in my McKee's mailbag
Which Jacob told me to call it the keys mailbag. That's way better for sure
Rachel green tree treated me and said can we please address how kipper might actually be Matthew Nysa's dad
The resemblance is so uncanny. I'm half expecting kipper to show up at the next game yelling. That's my boy
Yeah, well holding a paternity test anyway
So I got the crack staff at sports day
Look at that. Oh my good gracious the same person by the way kipper. You're a honk bud like holy weapon of mass destruction
But you guys look exactly the same. Yeah. Yeah, that's starting to scare me a little bit
That is uncanny
Anyways, yeah, I had to bring it up
That Jersey's beautiful by the way that way I trade my past for his future
Very funny line give me June 14 1994. I got a I even up trade. Just give me. That's a very funny line.
Give me June 14th, 1994.
I got to hold out.
Next one here is from Grins Above on Twitter.
All right boys, please settle a Twitter debate for me.
Is David Camp a Stanley Cup caliber fourth line center?
I say yes.
Absolutely.
I think you can win with him as a fourth line guy guy. I mean who's your and it's not cheap
but this make clear that it's not cheap, but
Is he
Irreplaceable I think there's somebody out there that you could probably find cheaper, but it's too hard by now
I'd like to go through the Stanley Cup rosters of the recent champions who their fourth-line center was over the years. It's too hard by now. I'd like to go through the Stanley Cup rosters of the recent champions who their fourth line
center was over the years.
It's usually, you know, it's not no one special, but it's not a huge name.
This is a tight salary cap era.
I wish you'd be a little more physical though, a little bit more.
Yeah.
That's all.
That's one thing missing for me a little bit from him.
But the thing that was going to be a $5 million dollar player or a three million. Yeah, good point
I think that was jumps out to me is when Goudis on the Panthers just
Eviscerated him and he was never the same. Yes. Remember that one of the harder
He's just never recovered from that that was mean. This is from
Michael Byrne on Twitter. Can we finally start the berube for Jack Adams narrative now?
Sure Absolutely. Come on. How is he? He's he's Can we finally start the barube for Jack Adams narrative now? Sure
Absolutely. Come on. How is he? He's
He will not not be in the conversation like take a look boys
They're they're knocking on the door of a president's trophy. They're right up there. What are they four points behind Vegas six?
Yeah, they're in the conversation
Yeah, there are three points conversation. Right. Yeah,
there are three points behind Vegas, three points behind
Vegas. Yeah, it'll be hard to kind of wrestle it away from
Carberry Carberry in Washington. Again, it's got
Arneal. What plays what plays into it is that still Winnipeg
and still the Toronto Maple Leafs had a certain expectation.
Yeah, it's fair.
We had nothing out of Washington this year.
Zippo.
By that metric though, the Columbus Blue Jackets making playoffs would be like for Dean Evison,
like holy smokes.
I thought they might finish near the bottom.
Yeah.
And that's a real strong case for him to
be John Hines and Minnie
Their third and the fourth in the league and they got all the expectations were there for them
Yeah
But I think those are legit names right now at the end of the year if you're doing that because they always do the three
Finalists right mm-hmm. I think it'd be totally fine for Craig Borube to be one of the finalists
Yeah, and let's see how the second half goes it's it's very possible for them to
Get hot
Boost his case a little bit
I do think that Washington's gonna come back a little bit just a little bit
This is from Elliott Coats and this is McKee's mailbag. So this is from Elliott Coats on Twitter
Can we just get some more Sammy talk on how the Bruins suck and they're totally wash
Nothing feel feeds my soul so thoroughly feel like I've been beating that drum pretty good.
God, I don't know. You guys were doing the Leafs game last night. I was looking back
and forth. The Oilers worked them last night. That was as comprehensive a beat down as I've
seen in a long time. I don't think they're going to make it.
I don't either. I think there's too many good teams in the
East. Teams that are not good, but better than that, that can just kind of jump over
them. There are four teams in the NH like teams that are not good but like better than that that can just kind of jump over them.
There are four teams in the NHL with a worse goal differential four teams total.
They're the fifth worst goal differential team at minus 24.
Typically when you get to playoffs in a season you sort the standings the teams that are
green are in teams that are red are out.
They're very out.
The guy that's going to take a lot of heat this year is going to be Jeremy Swainman too.
Yeah, fortunately for him it's a bunch more years.
It's a package deal because I think the whole thing was botched from day one. You cannot
hold them out, hold them out, hold them out, and then finally say, okay, we'll give you
8.25. That was the number all along he wanted.
It's crazy how important training camp is for these guys.
Like I just can't remember a time where someone parachutes in,
you know, and is awesome. Like they seemed to me said,
Willie was really good when he sat out till December.
Oh my God.
Awful.
Was he awful?
Oh, that was so bad.
Was he awful so bad
How do you think in six point nine for Willie was way too much was that what he signed for six nine?
Yeah, but to your point it's like
With the risk of missing camp if they wanted to pay him seven and a half
They're like maybe we just give him the number he wants so he doesn't suck and he can be a part of this like
I guess that's the mismanagement part a? Don Sweeney definitely takes some. He'll wear that one. Yeah. You know what if they do miss the
playoffs I think someone's someone's gonna it's gonna cost somebody something.
Oh yeah. And we haven't done a trade one in the mail bag there's been about a hundred
of them so this is from Matt. Marshall Auerbach who is the most realistic
acquisition target for the Leafs as the third line center. You like Scott Lawton.
I do like Scott Lawton, except God, that collision between him and
Mitch Cobb last night was violent.
And oftentimes the ones where you run into your own guy are the most
funny, you don't see it coming.
Like that was the large Hadron Collider just going the opposite directions.
And Mitch Cobb's face immediately like busting up a little bit.
He kissed his helmet on the bench and that was kind of a door yeah they're back
yeah they're fine yeah I like lot and I need a bigger upgrade okay I do Brock
Nelson yeah Brock Nelson that's your guy yeah that's my guy Barney or you can go
out and you know try to get cadre yeah it's tough Sam because there's not
anyone like
Yeah, you want a really good player here and I think worry about they need a really good player like Nelson Is not been awesome here. No, but a little bit about he's big. Oh, yeah, he's big and he's a legit
Top six guy. Yeah
This one we don't have much time. So maybe we'll do this one
In the national hour because it's more of a national hour. No time. It's from trevor powell on twitter
And can we get a mid-season champions league update?
Who's in your guys champion league? I have 13 teams in mind 12 top 12 in the standings and tampa
Everyone else's midter really stinks. So we've got two minutes, but you know, it'd be an interesting conversation
Maybe stretch out more but
There really is a huge line between people who could actually win and people who actually can't like I guess that's the most the case two minutes, but you know, it'd be an interesting conversation, maybe stretch out more, but
there really is a huge line between people who could actually win and people who actually
can't.
Like I guess that's the case in most leagues, but it really feels pronounced in this year's.
I just feel like everything is a bit compressed this year compared to most years.
Like I don't feel like there's, you know, the Bruins had 135 points a few years ago.
And you had teams like San Jose who finished here with like 40 points or you know, whatever.
It feels like everyone's kind of okay.
I have an article coming later today on the Eastern Conference Playoff Pitcher where literally
nobody's done.
I mean, the Buffalo Sabres are pretty done.
Yeah, but they're El Dante.
They're not cooked.
I could just I look at these teams and I guess like the the parody that you're talking about but I could even get it down to five or six
of teams I actually think are gonna win. Vegas, Winnipeg, Toronto, Edmonton,
Florida. I know Florida's not good right now. Let's pick it up with the
national hour. I'll reread that one in the national hour we'll do it more after
the break in national hour. All right I'll reread that one in the national hour. We'll do it more after the break in national hour.
All right.
Sounds good.
We're just getting started here.
The Keys mailbag.
The Keys mailbag.
Love it.
Good stuff.
Love it.
All right.
Renny Lavoie is going to join us on our national program.
After we take a short break, we'll get into the NHL, the Montreal Canadian.
And Lane Hudson, Is he the new
leader and rookie of the year? We'll discuss, we'll explain
when we return. Nationals next on The Real Kepern and Boren
Show. You