Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Rest Down the Stretch

Episode Date: April 11, 2024

Nick Kypreos and Justin Bourne welcome guest producer Daniele Franceschi as they look at the Leafs' lines ahead of tonight's game against the Devils. They dive deep into the defensive pairs as Edmundson returns to the lineup tonight and how the blueline will be deployed before playoffs. Then, they discuss the importance of rest before the postseason and how to balance Matthews going for 70 vs. being well-rested for Game 1. Finally, the Athletic's Josh Kloke (32:17) weighs in on the rest vs. rust debate, which Leafs players need 'load management' the most and the goalie rotation in the final games with Samsonov now virtually locked in for the Game 1 start.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

game day on the real kipper and born show we are live on sports net 590 the fan sports net 360 and sports net plus from four to six and remember you can get to real kipper and Born. At any time you like, if you can't catch us live, wherever you get your pod. Yep. In Texas, if you want. 595.90. Nick Kiprios. Justin Born. Derek Brandeo.

David Sissboomba. And in for Sammy McKee. Disco Dan Franceschi. The organized. The all-knowing. Be very helpful at dan how are you yellow oh guys i am doing well it's great to be back it's been a while it's great to be back so when when did we have you on last because that by all my estimations on you on twitter changed your life that's right. Okay, sure.

We'll say we'll go with that. It was a great experience. I think that was in the middle of January. Middle of January. Middle of January at some point, yeah. So since then, what's life been like? Because you made your national debut. Yeah, yeah. And what, commercials?

No, no. I wish I had the Mercedes one like you. That's a pretty sweet gig, I got to say. It's a pretty sweet deal you got going on there. No, nothing. I wish I had the Mercedes one like you. That's a pretty sweet gig. I got to say, it's a pretty sweet deal you got going on there. No, nothing's changed. I still show up for work like normal. I maybe gained 10 Twitter followers, which is fantastic. Okay.

And I'm happy. That's great. That's all. We're good. And it's been, yeah, it was very cool, obviously, at the time. Pretty surreal. Fun to be back with you guys. And the Disco Dan moniker just took off.

All right. Well, baby steps to the Mercedes. That's coming next. So Disco, obviously another welcomed opportunity because, I hate to say it, but our Sammy faked an illness to watch the first round of the Masters. It's the first day of Masters. Oh, written all over it. Wow.

I saw this. I saw this more than like people saw the eclipse coming. Bet 365 had this at minus 150, I think. He was not showing up for work. He even set the stage, didn't he? He did. You know what he did? He did this one yesterday.

Here's where I think it's genuine. He will never pass up an opportunity to go play golf and he had that yesterday yeah he didn't go golfing so i do think it's somewhat genuine i really do no no no you can't go golfing and then not show up for work the next day well or he just bailed on one group and went with a group that agreed to keep it quiet i don't know lame but it is. We should have come in with the tinkly music today. We should have some azaleas. We should be whispering.

We should be hushed tones today for the Masters. Nick Kiprios with his lineup trying to find his pen for the 13th time. I'm good now. Okay. It's a little different. Listen, I told you this. I'm not used to having an itinerary so organized.

There's a lot of information. It's a ton of information. And, you know, Sammy's lineup's gotten a little better. But it ain't this. It's not. Listen, I know you don't have to tell me, okay? But we miss him, Sammy. Hope you feel better, pal.

He'll be back. He'll be back soon. All right, game day here. don't have to tell me okay but we miss him sammy hope he'll be back he'll be back soon all right game day here we're inching ever so closer to the stanley cup playoffs but there's still four on the table for the toronto maple leafs including one tonight against the new jersey devils yeah gonna have some lineup changes sounds like uh particularly on the back end ilia labushkin gonna draw back in uh joel edmondson been out for eight games uh had blocked a shot his foot was hurting him he'll be back as well um mccabe out

resting some injuries and who else would be out there lilligren still sideline lilligren still out and then up front it was doer for noah gregor that was the other change so starting to see some rest for some guys who aren't hurt, but could just use a little bit of time. Alright, we'll pick up on that with our first Sheldon Keefe's Kippers Clipper on the load management and what it means to sit

McCabe out tonight. I mean, case by case situation, we don't have at this point, I wouldn't say we have anybody in that same sort of situation like you know like i said gabers he's played a lot and done a lot for us this season quite honestly i don't know that he's played many games at 100 percent like he's he's played through a lot of stuff uh this season nothing that's obviously held him back from playing but he's

he's uh you know he's he's played through a lot so uh you know give him in particular a chance to to breathe i think is good i think the rest of our group right now is feeling feeling good for those that are in the lineup you know mccabe's interesting he's missed eight games uh or sorry this season he's yeah he's missed eight games still pretty good numbers eight goals 20 assists plus 19 playing 21 minutes a night thereabouts he's been a big part of their back end and he's gonna have to play a really big part in the playoffs here he's a guy that i i like for sure i'm just not sure where he truly lies in terms of is he a legit top four defenseman i can't believe you still wonder if he's a top four defenseman.

Well, on the Toronto Maple Leafs, he is. Okay. I just don't know on what we perceive as a Stanley Cup contending blue line. Yeah. And, like, I just measure the Vegas're basically you're putting them up against colorado vegas for sure yeah and you know i know vegas is kind of struggling a little bit here and you know we'll get into that probably later on in the show as they they took a really bad loss against the edmonton oilers and we'll get on that probably bigger picture in the next hour or so. But my point in all of this is if McCabe was on Vegas' blue line,

which we know is a Stanley Cup blue line, where would he look? Can he be a top four on that blue line? You know, so maybe, you know, thereabouts. To me, it's like Vegas is the best decor that we've seen win a cup recently right it was petrangelo theodore hagg and white cloud were the third pair um forgot who i'm missing uh haig did you mention haig i did mcnab mcnab you know like they they were really really good yeah you know mccabe to me is no doubt about it as a good second pair guy. You know, the Leafs aren't going to have the best D.A. I know.

We know that. Yeah, yeah. But it may be their Achilles heel when it's all said and done. Yeah. And Matthews still is Matthews. Yeah. And Samsonov's pretty good still. Yeah.

It may come to that blue line where we go ultimately they weren't deep enough or they weren't they were missing like a a legit two three yeah i think the real the question you're posing which is a good one is is he what they want him to be or need him to be you know like he's definitely a second pair guy he's definitely going to play on this team yes he's definitely going to be the guy out there against the best lines is he going to excel in those minutes he has at times this year but it's yeah definitely a question mark he's not yeah he's not one of the elite okay let's go to sheldon keith on edmondson coming back into the lineup and also uh connor doer yeah it's great to see him back for sure especially for a guy that's still new to our team. You know, to have to have him missing time, you know, it's tough. So yeah, to get him back in

the mix is good. He's, you know, he's been managing this well and he's been back on skates for a while, but just giving him time to, you know, be certain that things are good. It'd be nice to get him back in and, you know, get him those reps that he needs and that we need to have with him. I guess the other line of change is Dewar going back in in that same sort of situation, just continuing to give him the reps here as a guy that's new to our group. Edmondson had a comment today.

He said, it's never fun to watch hockey. If it was playoffs, I would have played right through it. It wasn't that big of an injury. We just wanted to make sure it was 100% to watch hockey. If it was playoffs, I would have played right through it. It wasn't that big of an injury. We just wanted to make sure it was 100% before getting back. Eight games is a lot to miss for a help a thing get better that you can play through. Depending on who you talk to, a deep bruise or a slight crack. Crack or something, yeah.

Can you play with a hairline fracture? Yeah, yeah. Right? That sort of thing yeah okay you don't want to you don't need to yeah is it 70 is it 65 i hope it's a bone bruise that would be better than a hairline fracture those things they can heal though yeah right they can and i think that's what happened if it was then he should be fine two three weeks is a big difference yeah he's been skating for two weeks it is it was interesting to me just because he is a guy that

it's a small sample of him in that lineup and you want to kind of figure out where he slots in best yeah right and that even maybe goes hand in hand with like jake mccabe like who's he gonna play with and how does that sort of how do you assemble your top four on the blue line to ensure you feel comfortable about that group going in so yeah missing i think missing eight games is a big deal and he said even adding to your comment there born you're reading the quote talk about how he's been skating for for two weeks now yeah like he felt good and felt ready to go and today very cautious very cautious before even keith was like yeah he's going to be back in he declared himself healthy and ready to play he was ready to go and eager to get back in there

how do you like riley labushkin edmondson i see brody i see riley labushkin is uh you're you're your pair first pair anything morgan's on has to be your first pair yeah so that's your first pair game one. Benoit McCabe, Edmondson Brody. Tough to look at. I know you like Lilligren. I know you like Lilligren. Where is Lilligren?

We expect him to play two games, just one. Like how do you? It's tough. Now you're into that territory of I'm not sure there's going to be enough to to lock in lilligren in a in game one it's like i know even if you want him in if he hasn't been playing it's really tough to say okay go defend bennett and chuck and that includes that we think tj brody is now coming back think the last two games have been good. Been okay for me.

Is okay good enough? That's right. Is okay to better good enough for you to pick him over Lilligren? And how important is it that you need a second right-handed shot in your lineup? Like right now, you're going in tonight.

You got one right-handed shot in Labushkin, and he's Labushkin. He sure is. The best I can describe him. He's Labushkin. Right? You know, speaking of the blue line, I guess the one question I have there is then, well, I think everybody would naturally point and say it's Benoit that is really the bubble guy and that if Lilligren's in he's the one coming out

brody's probably done himself some favors with how he's played recently but i kind of feel like it's actually closer than what it might appear kip this like life's been beating that drum how can you take i i just i find it difficult how can you take a guy like benoit out like what he gives you what he provides yeah there's something about the way he plays i think we're past that now they're he's in he's in he's like there's something about the way he plays i think we're past that now they're he's in he's in he's like there's something about the way he plays that strikes me as a guy for one whatever reason we always look year over year that third pairing deemed on a really good playoff team and you say oh that guy and sure enough he's productive and 20 minutes and 14 seconds per game this period

this uh month so they're they're playing they're playing they trust yeah so i don't know where they stand on feeling like lilligren as a right-handed shot still gives you more flexibility on the back end right that's important too it is so one thing i think we should talk about because it's the talk everywhere i go about the Leafs, is Matthews and 70, which I know it's, you know, you and I maybe are less inspired by that than I think fans of the team think it's a huge deal. It's a, you know, going for this chase. I wrote an article yesterday on should he rest or should they let him pursue 70?

I want to get your thoughts on that. We do have a Keefe clip on it as well. You can decide if you want to go first or Sheldon goes first. Let's go to Sheldon. We'll go to Sheldon and then we'll pick it up because I also wrote an article today for the Toronto Star. God, a couple of authors. Yeah, a couple of authors going at it.

And I had my thoughts on Matthews and the best season by far in his career so far. Let's go to Sheldon first. Am I concerned about it? Not necessarily. I think the guys have done a good job of it. It's been good. Look at the goals that group has scored and that Austin scored. The process has been good. The guys haven't cheated the game.

They haven't forced anything. any of that sort of stuff i know i've got lots of play on on uh you know whether austin should have been on the ice with the goalie out and such and he was going to be out he's the next man up he's not going to be out there four on six it's not a situation that he would he plays in and that to me is forcing it to me the guys are just going out there and playing that's the best way if you want To me, the guys are just going out there and playing. That's the best way. If you want to add to your goal total, just go out and play. Those are good players, and they've been dominating play. Just go out and go about it the right way.

But it's pretty remarkable already what Austin's accomplished here. The number continues to grow, but nobody in the league has gotten to this number, and that in itself is pretty terrific to watch. Austin's feeling really good right now. He's got lots of energy. He's playing with a free mind, and you can see it out there. So we'll just keep going about it. And within our team process, he's a big part of it,

and he's going to score goals through that. Kind of what I've been preaching all along here is that it's just the look of the record right now and i i think it looks absolutely perfect in terms of what it should look like and they're not chasing it he's not chasing it the team's not chasing it i was team's not chasing it. I was so happy that it was an obvious look that there's an empty net and I want this guy to go out and stuff when he doesn't play in. Good on Sheldon Keefe to go know that the rotation's the rotation. He wasn't next man up, and I'm not giving him a freebie and throwing anything else off.

And that's what it should be. So to get to your question on what's right or what's wrong, there's no definitive answer. I know a week from now, if he gets hurt, they're going to take it from every which way. But that goes with anybody. There's no hindsight here. So what do you do?

Do you take it upon yourself as a coach or general manager? And do you go in now and tell Austin you're not playing? So I have weighed this carefully, I think, in my mind about what's best for him and the team. I think there's a couple of questions that are important to answer first. Do you think that the rest gained by not playing will make a material difference in his performance in that first series? Like, Will, sitting out, let's say he misses the last two games of the year against Florida

and Tampa Bay, is the gain tangible? Will he actually be 1% better if he doesn't play those games? I think probably 1% is reasonable. Like, you know, somewhat better, right? It's tough to say, right? We don't have an

answer to that. At the end of the day. You are guesstimating. Exactly. That's generous. I think I'm just guessing. There's, there's, there's no way to know. There's no way to know. And so all the sports science doctors and whatever doctors, but sort the people, the

people who make these calls will say the rest will help him playoffs are a long run the rest is good for him let's just assume they're right let's take that at face value that the rest will help him in playoffs then i think if he only has 67 goals or 68 goals with two games to go and the rest will help him in playoffs, I think you have to prioritize the team. This is a team that will come to be defined by putting personal above team based on contracts and now something like this if they don't win. And so even if they don't win the cup this year, it reflects better on the player to sit out and rest and try to maximize his performance in playoffs

over chasing this goal. So I get why they might rest him. I actually think it probably makes more sense to rest him. Everyone I've talked to disagrees and says, boo that and chase the record and 70's awesome. But what are we doing here? What is the priority? And to me, unless he has 69

goals no no no no you're either in or out not not you got to make that same decision whether he's got 67 or 68 no 69 changes that it does now you're not prioritizing the team first based on what you just told me well now i think he is... Well, here's the thing. If you go in with 67, you're not even likely to get the record if you play. Have you watched this guy lately? He can score three in a period. Yeah, but it doesn't mean you're going to.

But he could. But if he has 69 and he's going to get the record, almost certainly, then I think it changes the math a little bit about whether you do it or not. You hate to play god kip he's at 68 goals you play him and he gets hurt or even tweak something like i told you he's getting buried the leafs are getting yeah the leafs will get buried for sure and i'm burying you for not saying that he should have sat out yeah but he can get hurt in practice like it's i don't know he could he could but

i'm more likely to get hurt climbing everest than sleeping 100 i i get that i'm with you though i do agree i i think you have to prioritize team over individual i i firmly believe that because at the end of the day as you put it they're going to be judged based on what happens two weeks from now and beyond potentially not what happens come next what is it wednesday they finished the regular season and whatever that goal total is he hits 70 and they lose in the first round our conversation is not any different it's not going to change it's going to be a repeat rinse and repeat of what we talked about for years now when it comes to the playoff failures and the shortcomings and god i mean god forbid he goes out and he has a bad first round we're not gonna look at the 70 and say well but he scored 70 no you're gonna say

well he went five games and scored one goal that's what counts so it will all be forgotten very quickly regardless it'll it'll be a passing conversation and then it'll be gone i'm with you like i i've always been in that camp the whole way through what did you rest them what did you think of edmonton not dressing connor against vegas last night well connor's hurt but do you buy that no i don't but he's oh yeah they're and he's they're saving one more but he's not he's chasing chasing an MVP. He's chasing an Art Ross title. Yeah. They didn't play him last night.

That's a good point. I mean, I think some people would say that 70 is different. They may. Than whatever Connor's chasing. And a Hart Trophy, which he already has. You know, Matthews has never hit 70. But I get your point. That they're probably resting their best player for the first round.

So I think this is a minority opinion that I think you should rest Matthews unless he has like 69. He can take it out of our hands tonight. It's the Devils. Yeah. No offense to the Devils, but he scored 16 times. Oh, offense, take it. Yeah, he has 16 goals in 17 games against the Devils.

He usually scores, and he probably will tonight. How about this, though? If he has no goals tonight and doesn't score against Detroit on whatever that is, Saturday, then you definitely arrest him, right? 66 goals, two games left. You definitely arrest him there. I think if you're Keefe, you probably just want him one way or the other to take the decision out of your hands go out there tonight saturday score two goals give me a couple get there say okay we can and even if you want to play the card of well there are still

stakes because like home ice is still technically available to them i don't think it matters but he's probably sitting there being like gosh please do something so that i don't have to get the questions about you sitting at 68 or 69 and is he gonna play or is he gonna sit it's gonna be it's coming to a head all right let's pick up on that uh topic with sheldon keith clip four on the concerns oh we did oh did we do that already oh i'm sorry no all good all right um one last thing yeah on this like for me still i my first priority would actually be giving tavaris the night off here this is well this is uh this is a key guy here he's gonna play second hold him matthews at the center ice position this is the guy i gotta make sure has legs much more concerned on tavaris playing every other night heavy minutes against the florida panthers team and providing offense and still

providing that responsibility defensively like if they if they shut down austin here if barkov has some success, where's it left after behind him? Tavares, to me, is an important guy to shut down here. Yeah, you know, there's a case being made that Austin might be better off playing games, staying in the rhythm, scoring goals. Tavares right now hasn't scored in five straight games, has a couple assists over that time. Yeah, maybe doesn't quite have the pop he had a

couple weeks ago i think that's a great point you know this is and then so the question becomes then is how much do you prioritize this home ice advantage chase in terms of should you just rest all these guys not worry about you're not getting caught by tampa bay at this point you know or should you just sit tavara sit matthews sit i don't know if you want to get mitch back in a rhythm a little bit more mitch is well rested mitch is well morgan is well rested yeah no concerns there there's times when willie plays and he's well rested willie yeah you get what you get you don't get upset with Willie. Yeah, you're right. He plays.

So just the guys I think that we mentioned. One guy that doesn't appear to need any rest is Max Domi. Let's get Sheldon's thoughts on where his importance may be down the stretch here. Clip three. Clip three. importance may be down the stretch here clip three clip three or not i mean he's always been a guy that has that ability to make plays but i think just as he's progressed through the season and gotten more comfortable here and uh more comfortable with his line mates and obviously the way it's going now with austin it's it's uh it's been terrific to watch but you know we've used him a lot in the middle of the ice at center and he's done really

well for us there uh so yeah he's got he's got that ability so it's ability it's skill and then it's confidence he's a veteran in the league and uh you know he believes he can make a difference and that confidence is something that shines through for me in any moment. This is a guy, he's a competitor that the opposition can bring whatever they want. He still, his confidence doesn't get shaken by anything the opposition is doing. And, you know, and I've talked about this with Bert. I think it's those types of competitors and that mindset, I think, is, you know, what was exciting about adding those guys in the offseason.

And as this season is winding down and you're getting more prepared for playoffs, you're that much more excited because I think those are the types of guys that will shine when things get most difficult. Foregone conclusion, Max Domi's beside Austin Matthews for game one. I don't think foregone conclusion but certainly trending In that direction right now uh Bertuzzi has 13 points over his last 13 games including nine goals all At even strength um

Domi 13 points over his last 15 Games plus 13 over that Time i mean it certainly looks that Way are you coming Around to that at all Yeah i am coming Around a little bit yeah i am uh bertuzzi's going well right now if you were to bring in marner on that line which ultimately i think at some point yeah we're gonna see a push from the leaves you're gonna load up you're gonna

have matthews and game and they'll be there back there but so far Bertuzzi's feeling really good yeah so I'm okay with that and Willie will continue to be with Holmberg and maybe Robertson tonight what's he how many points does he have like speaking of milestones here what does he have to go to 100 still he was on pace for 128 130 yeah uh a month and a half ago two months ago this guy was on pace for 125 i think he has two points in his last six games he's he's one to watch tonight chase yeah maybe yeah so four games left he needs four points he's averaging 1.2 points per game or a little bit more so you you think he'd get it but boy he's been kind of stuck lately we'll see uh need a couple in the on the power play here yeah three points in his last nine games three yeah three in his last nine one goal during that span real drop off for him maybe he

does need night off kip but does he really yeah i'm with you kip i when i watch him sometimes i'm just i shake my head yeah just because of we all know we all know but you need him you desperately need these fans have come around to willie people ain't get mad at him anymore he just is willie now that's exactly it i think i think there's still enough time for these lines to kind of feel each other out and gain more chemistry but overall i got a much better feel for this lineup going into the playoffs than i have in previous ones really yeah i do i think i get a better vibe from one to four yeah than i ever have in the last little while and that includes you know those significant trades last year ryan o're Like, they didn't have a Ryan O'Reilly trade this year,

but it feels like it was almost force last year. Ryan O'Reilly's a great player. He's won the Conn Smythe. He's led a Stanley Cup team. Fit him in there and let's make some magic. And it didn't happen. Yeah. It didn't happen.

And I get a feel like guys know where their roles are this time around yeah better does that make sense totally and you know what this is the first year of the last three or so where the leafs haven't looked to new players to say maybe they'll fix the problems like the growth from this forward group has come internally. McMahon became a waiver, went from a waiver guy to a contract guy, Benoit, same thing like Holmberg, regular in the lineup. Now the growth is internal.

There seems to be a hierarchy, which is something you've preached to me over the last couple of years. Yes. You know, where do, where do guys fit in and are they okay with that? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, I would say we are mutually optimistic about this leaf team right now which when though and you know whether whether it's ryan reeves in or out yeah uh and there's he won't play tonight connor doers in with camp and nize nize i think like whether they're playing eight or nine minutes they look eyes is coming yeah no they look like like they're playing 12 or 14 minutes because when they're out there there's significant four checks there's significant uh cycles there's positive place there's significant place to the

net yeah and there's a sense now that that fourth line is key now for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Which is crazy considering, you know, years past looking at, okay, it's going to be Spezza and Achari and, you know, like trying to piece it together. So, yeah. Hey, man. That was a lot of positive Leafs stuff. That right there, what Kipper said about the fourth line, it harkens back to, I mean, two, three years ago, years of them playing Tampa. And it always felt like the fourth line was on the ice.

That Perry, Nick Paul, those guys, it always felt like. Maroon, Maroon, Belmar. It's like, did they win 28 minutes? It's like 11 minutes. Yeah. Like, what? But they made an impact. They had their fingerprints all over the game at all times.

And I think, yeah, that fourth line, this Leafs fourth line, has sort of showed a little bit of that as of late. For sure. Is our Sammy McKee, who's home, this Leafs fourth line, has sort of showed a little bit of that as of late. For sure. Is our Sammy McKee, who's home covering the Masters for us today, tweeted anything on Tiger, his start? I should check out Sam's Twitter account to see how active he is today. I'll keep you abreast of that after the break. How about that?

Can I also mention that you got me in this pool? Yes. Right, and it's a good pool. Good pool. Shout out Brandon Miller. With in this pool. Yes. Right? And it's a good pool. Good pool. Shout out Brandon Miller. With 271 entries. Wow. And just prior to the show, I looked and I was in 271st place.

I'm not even. Last. Xander Shoffley is not helping either of us. I have Shoffley too, so. And I was so upset. I didn't even look where you are. Yeah. Probably T271, pal. That's not possible but anyway all right we're gonna take a quick break when we come back joshua cloak maple leaf writer for the athletic will join us we've had him on a couple times

solid writer very good stay tuned more real kipper and Bourne after the break. Covering the Blue Jays from an analytical perspective. Jays Talk Plus with Blake Murphy. Be sure to subscribe and download Jays Talk on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Nick Kiprios. Justin Bourne. Disco Dan. Talking Leafs.

We go to Joshua Cloak, Maple Leaf writer with The Athletic. Tell us about Tiger Woods. Is he ready? One under through one. He's on the on-deck circle. He's on pace to shoot 72 below. Under? 72 under. Does he make the cut?

Yes. He's literally never missed it, right? He's made the Masters cut every year of his career. He ain't missing now, pal. When was the last time he was in last year? Yeah. And he made the cut last year? He did.

Yeah. He just didn't play the weekend. He hurt, right? Yeah, he withdrew in the third round. Okay. That's what I remember. Yeah. Can he play 72 holes of golf is a tougher question than will he play well enough. We got to do a show from there.

I think they'd let us do our show from there. From Augusta. Real Kipper and Gord. Yes. From Amen Corner. Yes. Sounds amazing. Sounds good.

All right. As promised, Joshua Cloak joins us now. Josh, what's going on? Somewhere in Burlington on a GO train heading eastbound. Kind of wondering what the point of these last three or four games in the regular season is. That's kind of where I'm at. Really?

Tearing out the window. Yeah, existential crisis over here. Oh, listen. It's, you know, once upon a time, you know, the last five or ten games of the NHL season included like legitimate playoff races. Now it's load management. Right. How exciting is that?

Talking about load management. It's probably not very exciting if you're Austin Matthews. Right. Like, I'm sure that conversation is going to happen. It's probably going to happen, like, awkwardly over the next few days. But it's tricky, right? Like, the Leafs are still fighting for, like, home ice advantage. And there's some fans that I'm sure would rather they start on the road,

given their road playoff record under Sheldon Keith. But, man, it is going to be tricky. I'm thinking about that conversation and how, like, Austin Matthews is essentially going to say, no, I want 70 goals. I want to play. And then if you're Sheldon Keith, like, what are you really supposed to say if the best player in franchise history says, I want to play, and you're kind of thinking, oh, but we want you to play better in the playoffs.

You say tough beans. I don't know. Like, what do you, like, you know, Keith, how does that conversation go? Do you think if, and it's funny because we do talk about load management here, but it's with Jake McCabe tonight. That's the conversation.

But really, should we be focused on Matthews, Marner, Tavares, or Nylander here? And if you're going to pick one, does it need to be Matthews first or last? Where's Tavares in all of this for making sure that he has fresh legs for game one? Yeah, great question. So if we're doing a power rankings of these, like, four players

and who should get load management, number one on who should not get load management right now is William Nylander. Like, you've got to get him going. You've got to get him producing. And maybe the key to that is getting him, you know, more ice time or on the like the second line um i think he's kind of even though i like the idea of balancing out um you know your scores and having three lines that can score it does kind of feel like he's in no man's land right

now so i think you probably don't rest him at all and the same goes for mitch marner right coming off injury you want him playing the tavares is an interesting one because i do like the idea of him becoming this kind of shutdown center or this matchup center um but he's also the oldest so you think he'd need some rest um and then you land on matthews so i i't know. I guess where I'm at is like, don't rest William Nylander or Mitch Marner. You need William Nylander. He's been like, just on average, he's been their best forward in the playoffs over these last few years.

You need him going as best as he can. So I don't see him resting at all. I don't know. What do you guys think? Yeah, I don't think Mitch will rest. What do you got, Kev? Oh, I'm just worried that you missed your your stop you're okay listen i'm gonna stay down as long as i have to with you guys

but i i'll go to oshawa love hearing that josh appreciate it the uh you know the one that has me curious is, and you can clarify this, it seems like they have all but named Samsonov the game one starter. What do you think the plan is here? Three starts in a row. You're going to want Joe Wall to play. Is Martin Jones going to start? What do you think the goaltending rotation looks like down the stretch here?

I think you probably see Joseph Wall on Saturday. And again, I'm sorry to undersell this, but in a meaningless game. And then you probably see Samsonov against Florida on Tuesday in a bit of a playoff kind of preview. And then you see Joe Wall on Wednesday. So you get Samsonov a little bit of rest there. But you want Ilya Samsonov continuing to roll with this kind of mental strength

that he seems to develop. I really like everything about his game and his attitude right now. He was the team's Masterton nominee, and he didn't want to talk about November and December at all when he was asked about the kind of hurdles we overcame.

He didn't want to talk about that at all. He only wanted to focus on the future. We're seeing, not a meaner, but just a hardened Ilya Samsonov, and I think that's good. But no, he's the starter, game one, no doubt. Does that rule out Joseph Wall in game three or four? Because as much as he is the starter, like does anybody certainly feel like, you know, he's going to play all seven games?

I don't think so. There's always this thread of injury looming, and there's always this thread of, you know, what happened in November and December kind of just looming. So he's the starter, no question. He'll get two of these next four games. And I think Joseph Ball knows that too, right? We're talking to Joshua Cloak,

Maple Leaf writer for The Athletic. So I'm going to ask both of you guys this, but I want to get your comments on this. I'm really surprised that since joseph wall has been back that this didn't turn into more of a you know split on who should start because now it's almost as if because joseph wall hasn't found his game since returning, and it's maybe a stretch to say he can do something that will convince us. Otherwise, with just four games to go, there's a real sense that as far as the goaltending is concerned

for the Toronto Maple Leafs to start the playoffs, man, all their eggs are in one Samsonov basket right now. Yeah, go ahead, Josh. I want to hear from you, but, like, you know what sticks out to me is how when Joseph Wall came back, Sheldon Keith gave him two starts back-to-back against Boston. Like, and that was tough. He let in four goals each.

Not, you know, not all of them were on him, but that was a really tough start, like, in terms of coming back from injury. You know, that was just a tough hand to be dealt. And I, like, I like the idea. You know, you throw your potential starter into the fire and see what happens. But he's just never really gotten his game back on track after those two games in Boston. And, like, there's no question about his, like, mental capabilities to me.

I just think that really put him behind the eight ball a little bit. I don't know, Borny, where are you at? Well, you know, it's not like he hasn't played any good games. You know, he loses to Carolina with a 953 save percentage. He beats Washington with a 958. He had a couple decent games. And then he's been an 840 and a 900 and a loss and a win since. He's not been terrible.

If I would have had money halfway through the season, I would have picked Joseph Wall to start in the playoffs. Yeah, and I think that's how they saw it too, which is why it's kind of like it's amazing how they pivoted fairly quickly to, okay, he's going to be the backup. You know, they definitely need to play him like he very well me may be an important piece of this yet so i kind of think like maybe they go sammy again saturday joseph wool on the 16th and then jones the last game you know give sam samson

almost a week between starts for to get ready but i don't know it is going to be curious and i think it's boring i don't say it's unfair but i once those boston games happened they just sort of put them in the back burner and said you're not the guy anymore which is weird because they put them in that spot you know what i think too is like and and this is uh there's maybe too much psychology involved in this one but i always thought that it would be best to have Samsonov as your starter to give, like in game one, to give him that confidence, right? Because then you know if things go sideways, Joseph Wall is a really good backup option.

But if you start with Joseph Wall, that's kind of tough on Samsonov. You've really backed him into a corner. He loses a lot of confidence that way and then you don't know what you're getting if you have to turn him in game three. That's the way I've always thought about how they're going to approach goal-turning in the playoffs. I don't know if that one makes sense to you guys,

but that's where I'm at with it. Got to ask you, Joshua, about the blue line and all things being equal and everybody's healthy here. We can all Got to ask you, Joshua, about the blue line and, you know, all things being equal and everybody's healthy here. We can all safely say that we think Mark Giordano will be on the outside looking in, but who is beside him watching on the blue line in game one? Yeah, that's a great question.

I would think it's Connor Timmons, and I think Timothy Lillard gets in, and you can hear how hesitant my tone of voice is. I think he gets in because the Leafs just need some offense from the blue line. They need some, and I just don't think Connor Timmons has really solidified himself as a really good PP option as well. Right?

Like, I think people want him to be the guy, but it just still feels like a development project there. And I think you need someone like Timothy Lillibrand who can break through lines in the neutral zone and move the puck cleanly, like, yeah, you're understanding that there's going to be some defensive miscues with that. But I just – I think they have to find a way to get him in there because I don't think they've found another good power play option,

obviously besides Morgan Riley. So that's why I think Timmons is probably out. Timothy Lilligren is in. Hopefully he can get a few games in. And he's probably your bottom pairing guy. And I think they're going to really lean on him on PP too. Do you have Benoit and Edmondson in? I have Edmondson in and Benoit out, which I understand is sacrilege

because like Simone Benoit has become a cult hero. He likes milk. He likes milk. He likes milk. Which is strange to me as an adult to think about another adult drinking milk. Look, I just

he brings a lot and I think there's a future where he played in the playoffs next season. But they just, they have on that blue line, if you look at that blue line right now, they have other Simone Benoit types. And I just think you need something a little bit different because they've really struggled all season.

If you just look at like the season as a whole, they've struggled to create offense in the blue line. And I don't think you're getting it from Simone Benoit. The Leafs would have to run into an absolute brick wall here to not finish second or third in their division so they're getting florida i mean i don't even think we've talked about it significantly enough on this show like the draw is the florida panthers how do you feel about how that shook out it could have been boston it could have been the rangers it could have been a whole host of teams. How do you feel about it being the team

that eliminated them last year? I feel like, I mean, they were going to be underdogs no matter who they would play. I frankly feel a bit nervous because, like, I'm packing for the trip, the final regular season trip to Florida. And I'm like, am I going to end up staying here for, like, a week and a half?

Yeah. You know, but that's a conversation, a testy conversation that I'm going to have with my wife in a few days. We'll go through that later. But look, I think you like the challenge and I think you like, if you believe, being the underdogs. I mean, frankly, they've been better on the road in the playoffs under Sheldon Keith. So you probably like starting it on the road. You know, I think it's very likely that the Leafs, if they do end up matching Florida, they just stay in Florida for those two days, you know, between the end of the regular season and the playoffs. That's good for the team, you know, team bonding and getting together and being away from, you know, all the extra cameras

that show up come playoff time. I think that's good for the team. You were going to face a team that eliminated you in some way, no matter what. But I don't know. I think if you're the Leafs, you feel, yeah, you feel better about being the underdog. I mean, when was the last time they entered a playoff about being the underdog. When was the last time they entered

a playoff series as the underdog? Gosh, Washington? I don't know. It's been a while. Yeah, it has. It's a good shift for them. I think you look at the new makeup of this team. The Bertuzzi's,

the Domi's, these guys that are starting to bring a little more of that P&V that this management group wanted them to bring. And you like going into an away barn and you like kind of being the underdogs. I think it's going to be important for them and I think it's going to be important to kind of lean into that mentality a little bit more. Joshua, great stuff, man. Really appreciate your time. You never miss a stop on this show, that's for sure. Oh, you've been

sitting on that one for a few minutes. That's great. Buddy, I'm this close to being a professional host. I think you might be now. Yeah. I'll wait until Union Station before I make that call. All right. Enjoy the game tonight.

Thanks, Cloak. Joshua Cloak, Maple Leaf writer, The Athletic. So, yeah, we're going to spend all next week, you know that. Yeah, I guess that's why we haven't dug in. The Florida Panthers. We should do like a pre-scout show where we go through it like I would a real team pre-scout. So, like, Florida's limping in here. Yeah, they've had a couple good games.

Right? They had a good game against Ottawa, so. Yeah. Do you count that? Yeah. I'm being sarcastic. No, no, I'm not. I'm not.

I'm counting anything right now. They beat Ottawa two of their last three games by a combined score of eight nothing so that's what i mean by they're doing better where do you have still home ice advantage for the leafs up for grabs here so i don't have the stat exactly in front of me but i i feel like at home they're like five and thirteen on the road they're eight and five or something like that you got it yelling I got the last three seasons. I knew you. Okay. At home the last three years in the playoffs, 4-8-2. On the road, 7-1-2.

No, they're not. Swear. 7-1-2 in the last three playoffs. On the road. That's just, that makes no sense. Pressure is a very real thing, right? I mean, you know that better than anyone. And John Cooper, and I'm going to say this tonight on the broadcast with you sitting beside you on the desk,

has taken great pains to paint the Leafs as the favorite in previous series. Oh, we'll be lucky to get games off them. The Leafs are the best. We're just, you know, everyone's picking them. Listen. Listen. To put the pressure on the Leafs, right? And at home, there's more pressure.

But I do think it's overthinking it a bit to be like, we don't want home ice advantage. Like, they should be experienced enough to know what to expect from that pressure now, no? I'm with you. It makes total sense to me. And either you believe that you can win or you can't, and you don't care where it is 100 it's like yeah okay there's pressure at home but you've been through the pressure it's

your eight of these playoff runs handle it baby all right the march continues towards the stanley cup playoffs first for the toronto maple leafs the devils tonight 7 p.m sports Sportsnet Ontario. JB and I will be on that panel with Elliott Friedman, who will join us in the next hour. Plenty to talk about league-wide, including those Coyotes. Howoo! That's pretty good.

Is it over? Finally! Uncle! That and more when we continue on Real Kipper and Born.