Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Schedule Stagnation

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with a little bit of baseball talk with some Shohei Ohtani rumours and how his signing in Canada would rank among the top Canadian sports stories ever. Moving onto the Leafs, they are joined by Sportsnet's Luke Fox (12:04), who shares his thoughts on the team hitting another gap in their schedule, Samsonov missing reps with the time off, Matthews' inconsistency and how Keefe is doing things differently this season. Later, NHL Hall of Famer Adam Oates (26:50) weighs in on the Penguins' power play struggles, the evolution of film study in hockey and how much skill depth forwards should have. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

right on the set sammy the real kipper and born show we are live and in color also available on sports at 590 sports at 60 and, and Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6. You can always download us if you don't get us live at any time during the day. You show can. Okay. Hot start. This is the Real Kipper and Bourne Show,

predominantly in the first hour, Leaf edition, which we'll attempt for the first hour. Then we'll go national. But between four and six, how many different times are we going to have you look at your phone to show an update? Give us an update. There hasn't been a hockey or baseball talk at the station.

Let's have it. There's a million different people saying a million different things there's people reporting things there's fake insiders saying things i heard some things it's just right now if you want clicks on baseball internet there isn't many better times at this moment than to say something about shohei we are in the mothership of sportsnet if you were to tweet just talk to someone and the eyeball emoji or something. Or how about like an eyeball emoji and the Japan flag? Yeah. I would get a thousand

retweets right now. You know, people are at each other. You could move the needle right now. But it's apparently down to the Jays and the Los Angeles Dodgers. So speaking. Shohei apparently flew to Florida to go check out the player development complex. They're reporting on it.

I don't know what to believe, Kipper. I'm having a hard time caring about the Leafs who don't play hockey. I just, you know, it's Shohei Ohtani, and it seems like there's a real chance. So speaking of the Rogers mothership here, I don't know whether we're like nine or ten floors above someone saying okay to $600 million. Oh, yeah, maybe more. But if that does happen in the next ten minutes, an hour, hour and a half, we're going to get booted out of here. Oh, yeah, they're kicking us off the air.

For sure. We're done. You know we're done. National Blue Jays voice? Sam McKee is a good number good we may like take off for a week maybe i mean i would need to go somewhere to get tickets like everyone else in toronto were that to be the case so that is the best case scenario is that we get booted out of here in the next 15 minutes for an official announcement yeah the worst case scenario is

news also breaks that he's going to la and we have a grown man crying on our show and it also seems like the most likely outcome just because i'm afraid of being hurt i don't want to be like i'm very protectionist sports fan yeah mostly because of my history with sports and the teams that i yeah like outside of the 2019 raptors i haven't had a whole lot to cheer about in my life and i've been snarky about this and i've been like there's just no way and today and last night are the first time that i truly let myself believe in this and it's a dangerous game it's a very it's a dangerous dangerous it's a metaphor for life it's making you bury your vulnerable heart before they pierce it with the dodgers tweet yeah it's just i i really want this now and i was kind of and i think it's i'm

gonna be heartbroken it's gonna suck but you know okay can i just get your hopes up high for a little bit here though for a second please where would this rank in number one canadian for a lot of storylines to me i don't care about the 600 million it doesn't uh run toe-to-toe with gretzky getting traded to la i think this is in that conversation how could it not be this is like this is a top conversation. How could it not be? This is a top five most famous guy on earth. Edmonton traded him. They chose to get rid of him. This is a guy that's choosing to sign in Canada,

that's choosing to come here and play for the Jays, which is something that would be crazy. I get the international scope of Shohei compared to Wayne Gretzky. The Blue Jays Twitter following or Instagram following goes from the second all of Japan follows. You know, like, this is the money they would make that money back over the time, no problem.

It'll pale in comparison to that emotional element, other than Sammy maybe, of a Canadian sports story. You know, we had the Raptors win a championship. There's the Jays runs in 15-16. Obviously, your Leafs years.

You know, you got Nick Taylor drains one to win the Canadian Open, all that. And you have it up with those. No question. Yeah. No question. I think it's on, like, the excitement that your fan base would feel is, like, on a championship level to sign Shohei Otani. I don't think that you're both looking at me like I'm crazy. I don't think it's crazy.

Now, you know, there's just no promise it even goes well, right? You know, like he can come here and... You don't buy the fact that if LA leaked a tiny bit out that Shohei's going to go, oh, no, I'm going to Toronto now. To Lou Lamorello? Lou slips over there. I'm going to Toronto.. To Lou Lamorello? Lou slips over there. I'm going to Toronto.

You don't really see that happening here, do you? Listen, I've convinced myself of a lot of things over the last hour and a half that I don't really know what to believe or what to read into, but he was very clear in the early parts of this that leaks were not to be had. And then old Kenny Rosenthal last night,

Mr., I thought he was supposed to be Johnny Tightlips writing an article about how he was at the, who's telling him that? It's just a really tense time for me. I also like, I personally have a tough time with the idea that someone would be, have this hard of a time making a choice. Like to me, it's like, okay,

you either really value the money or you really value being in LA or whatever. Like how do you not know? Well, it's not like somebody can come up with an extra 20 to 40 million and that's going to be the difference here, right? You have to now picture lifestyle. Where do you want to be? And I don't know.

On one hand, if he goes to la and or a big market is he one of many stars there does he worry about being too big of a star he in canada sure he'd be the guy it's he has canada there's nowhere he goes where he's not the biggest star i don't think like even with lebron in la if he's playing for the dod where he's not the biggest star, I don't think. Like, even with LeBron in L.A. If he's playing for the Dodgers, he's right there with LeBron. I mean, he's, yeah, okay. He's there. I agree.

With the Angels, no one cares. Shohei Otani could walk into a lot of places and people would not know who he is. I think. Compared to LeBron James in North America? Yeah, well, it's, LeBron's got 12 years on him. 12, yeah. Of pushing. For sure. 12 years on him of pushing. For sure.

14 years of pushing a market. And maybe Otani would get there for sure. He was in Space Jam. Everyone saw that. So he's the second most famous guy in L.A. immediately when he signs with the Dodgers. Yeah, you're right. That's a pretty big place.

Yeah, it's huge. I know he has to knock old Anze Kopitar off the ledge there. Walk by the statue of Dustin Brown in front of the Staples Center. I think once he does a Subway commercial with Barnes from the Raptors, he goes to another level. Yeah, can't you see Otani in the new Osmos commercial? It's coming for him. All right.

It's not a baseball show. Oh, we got to talk about the Leafs now? Yeah, we do. Oh, they practiced it. What a thrill. Can we just talk about the worsts now? Yeah, we do. Oh, they practice. Can we just talk about like the worst schedule ever? Oh, my God. Like we had that big break before they went to Sweden.

And now we've got another one. What is up with this schedule? Do they not know we have a show to do? The good thing is that I assume the back end of the season, we're going to be heavily heavily loaded but yeah they don't play till thursday night skated today we did get some uh some audio thursday they play saturday and then it goes monday tuesday thursday saturday next week so back to back monday both they play both new york teams uh rangers in the second half of back

to back which is a schedule loss. We've got a terrific show. We're going to have Luke Fox in a few minutes because we've run out of things to talk about with the Leafs. So we're going to invite Luke onto the show. Yes. We have Sheldon on that schedule too, Kipper. But we also have Hall of Famer Adam Oates in about 25 minutes.

Want to get his thoughts on a ton of stuff, including three-on-three, which is still a hot-button topic, I think. Fans booing when teams retrieve. Yeah. I like that. Yeah, let them know. I really like that. You know what is happening?

We can talk about it with Luke. I do have a complaint about it. And Mike Rupp, NHL Network analyst, will join us on our National Hour here on The Real Kipper and Bourne Show. But let's go back to the goofy schedule, and let's get Head Coach Sheldon Keefe's thoughts on him, on our first Kippers Clipper.

Different type of schedule we've had here for quite a while now. But you've got to take advantage of it when you have it, right, in terms of, first of all, some rest, and a chance to work on some things and build your game in practice. So, you know, we're making most of it. It's honest to really continue to stay on the guys and make sure our habits don't slip. You know, there's a few instances out there today in the practice

that you look like a team that hasn't played and is coming off a day off and all those kind of things. And that's sort of what you've got to combat is losing your game readiness. Yeah. And I saw someone tweeting from their practice on Sunday after the Bruins game that was very upbeat. You know, team feeling pretty good after a loss to the Bruins.

They had a day off coming on Monday. A little bit of rest, a little bit of practice time. Not the worst thing to happen to you at this point in the schedule. So even though it's good for the Leafs, it's inconvenient for us, but it is a good thing. Very inconvenient. Yeah. As someone producing this show.

Yeah, well, three good guests today. And so Samsonov's been super sick. Apparently he was, like, down and out. You know, he he didn't start he wasn't the backup on saturday night right and they're trying to get him ramped up for thursday or whatever but keith gave updates on samson of lilligren and clingberg would you like to hear those i would love that okay let's hear those maybe twice okay yeah sammy's uh he was feeling better today in order to get on the ice, but this illness has beat him up pretty good, so he wasn't going to work through the whole day, but the hope is that we can just kind of build him up a day at a time here now.

Lilligran's progressing really well. No timeline at this point that I've been made aware of other than just continue to kind of ramp him up a day at a time, and he's had no setbacks and is feeling good and strong every day. And I have nothing for you on Klingberger yet at this point. So, there have been some long meetings with old Klinger. I know. Is he okay?

The longer it goes, the more worried I am. That he's going to play. That he's going to play. I haven't met with the lawyers yet. Yeah. We haven't decided who's paying this guy. Us or insurance. Maybe Klingberg's down in Dunedin trying to get Ohtani to try.

One of my great cities. The media's awesome. I'm having a great time in Toronto. I would worry about Klingberg coming back on the ice and not being well welcomed. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome back. Because there's a lot of people, including our Sammy, that expect a new fresh $4.1 million to come into the system.

If you're going to use his money, maybe not one guy. No? Two million taller guys? One, three, and one, one? You got a lot of holes. You got a lot of holes. Anyways, Luke's here. Okay, let's welcome in Luke Fox, NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca

and a good friend of the show, especially when, as I said earlier, we've run out of things to talk about. So go, Luke. How are you? I'm doing okay. I love messing with you. I know there's a lull in the schedule when Sammy texts me. You're running out of quality A-list.

Oh, no, no. You always bring us great stuff here on the show. So is there a thought that they could not come out of the gate great against Ottawa on Thursday night, or is this old hat from them from the time, the downtime leading up to Sweden? Yeah, it's kind of interesting. Like Sheldon said, today's practice wasn't as sharp as he'd like, but let's be honest, he's a bit of a perfectionist, right?

He sets a high bar. I don't think they should have any excuses. I mean, this is a team that could probably use the rest. An incredible 11 out of their 22 games have gone to overtime. Like the odd day off, the odd practice day, I think should benefit the team and not be a hindrance. I'd say they have no excuses. The only, you know, kind of interesting thing is the fact

that ilya samsonov tried to practice today he actually had on his gear and was out on the ice for a few minutes but then once the real practice got going he bolted and uh they said they got to work with him and build back his strength because this illness has uh has given him a bit of a beating and you look back i think it was november 24th since he last started and and part of that's just because joseph wall's been dialed in and taken the number one spot but we all know that this league you need you need two goalies going and it's like okay if he doesn't start in ottawa it's going to be a long stretch here um between games and sheldon said he's a little bit concerned, the fact that he's not, it's not the game action.

It's like he's not even getting much serious reps in practice at this point. Yeah, and they sent Martin Jones back to the Marlies, did they not? Correct, yeah. Yeah, okay. Well, they may be needing him again yet, sounds like. Can I stay on Samsonov for a second?

Just in terms of now, the patience that they're going to show with Samsonov, is there a scenario where if you look at the playoffs and, yeah, I know, I get it, he got hit hard and didn't come back. And now he had a horrible camp, and now we're around Christmas, and there's just no real sense on him gaining traction again. Can you see this thing playing out where they just go with Sammy right to the very end and keep your fingers crossed on wall here? There's a sense that he's still a good goalie, Luke, but the reliability meter is really low on Samsonov.

Yeah, no, I agree with you 100%, Nick. Like, first it was the mental struggles, and then it was, you know, some shaky performances, and now it's the illness, which, you know it's it's going around you can't fault him and you don't want him to rush back if he's feeling sick or be around other players even more importantly if it's something contagious uh this guy's a good goalie when he's on um and the other thing is what are you going to do try and bury his salary or try and trade him when he has no trade value at this point.

You know, but it is a question mark because this guy was given the number one job from, you know, the first night opening night, this was his chance to run with it, but he stumbled and the, the belief in the organization is so strong on wall that I think they've been happy to,

to give the lion's share of the duties to the young guy. But, you know, you step back and you look at Joseph Wall's track record and he has he's never carried the load, especially at this this level. Like you still need a tandem. So I think it's important that they they work with Samson off at this stage, at least, and get him up and running. Luke, the Leafs are built a very particular way, as you know well. Top heavy, and they need the top to be good, or it's just not going to work. We've seen that in playoffs. They've gotten cold at times.

Starting the season, Matthews and Marner didn't look quite great. They didn't quite work together. I want to talk about Matthews a little bit and just get your thoughts on the difference between his game that we saw on saturday and for the previous seven games you know the the year before we're going is this guy hurt what's happening like i can't see what it is that's making him less effective on a game-to-game basis but then he comes out in boston and he's just so overwhelming. You know, what have you seen in his game so far this season, which frankly

has been a little bit inconsistent? Yeah, no, it's been inconsistent. That's a great word for it. His highs have been incredibly high. You think of the hat-trick games, and his lows have been pretty low. Like, coming into that Boston game, he had one goal in his past nine games, and

that morning, Sheldon Keefe did something that I can't recall him doing at least not very often and he publicly challenged him on what was a pretty softball question by the reporter and he went in and said it's not just the goals his process needs to be better he has to do the things that we ask of him to create chances and And it seems kind of easy from an outsider to say, hey, you're one of the best shooters in the world. You should have a shoot-first mentality. But Keith felt the need to have a one-on-one chat with him and say, you know, we want you to shoot

because, yeah, you might not score on every shot, but what it does is it creates chaos. And we have guys that can gather rebounds and it puts the defense on edge when you have a shoot first mentality now the fact that his game has been inconsistent i i think i don't think it's one thing i think there's a couple things at play one his his running mate you know mitch marner had a stretch where he wasn't feeling it and he admitted his confidence it was low when he was in his head a little bit wasn't relaxed out there and we see the difference between good marner and and you know you know not so good marner so i think part of it is that and the other part of it is the left

winger i mean i think matthew nize has done an admirable job as a rookie but you know maybe they missed some of the chemistry or that forechecking power that they had in that spot, whether it was Michael Bunting or years back with Zach Hyman. And then I also think there's a little bit of Matthews that is kind of, you know, he would never say it, but he doesn't get up for a game

against the Seattle Kraken the way he gets up for a game against the Boston Bruins. He knows the narrative around this team is nothing matters till the playoffs. I think when there's a big game, he gets fired up. So you add the fact that they had an interesting, compelling opponent to get up for.

The coach called him out a little bit, and there was a bit of a wake-up call by removing Marner from him. And he probably gets fed up and says, OK, you want me to attack? I'll show you what attacking Matthews looks like. And I think what frustrates the fan base is maybe we see that a little bit too infrequently

for a lot of people's liking during the regular season. We're talking to Luke Fox, Leaf and NHL writer for Sportsnet.ca. Luke, John Tavares approaching 1,000 points, kind of coincides with playing a little over, I think, 1,000 games, 1,051. I thought he was kind of attacked a little bit on social media the other night, and it was uncalled for because I think he played a good portion

of the last half of overtime against the Boston Bruins. But, you know, he comes kind of as advertised, right, in terms of what he's been able to deliver, and, you know, he's never claimed to be something that he's not. Yeah, no, I agree, and the thing is, we probably don't talk about him enough, and especially in a pause light, because we take him for granted, because he's like a metronome, right? He's the same guy all the time in his interviews, in his practices,

in his performances. Like, you know, we were talking about how Austin and Mitch sometimes have these crazy highs and, and, you know, some quiet, noticeable lows, but Tamaris has kind of been steady Eddie and and it really is phenomenal sheldon keith was talking a little bit about him today and his consistency and it starts with his habits his routine um and then it just translated into his game uh it's just phenomenal the way that he's maintained his production like his numbers this season as a leaf aren't that far off from his first season as a leaf and that's really

remarkable because when he signed this deal everyone was like well it's gonna look horrible at the back end and yeah maybe he's not worth 11 million but there's a lot of teams that would trade their second line center for john tabaris right now i mean he for one his face-offs have actually improved i think he might be at or if he's not the top he's very close to it he's winning draws at like a 60 percent rate still producing on the power play he's just incredibly dependable uh and it's kind of nice you know when these milestones come along because it gives you reason to kind of open your eyes and wake up and appreciate what he's kind of just steadily done for,

for so many years in his career. And, and it's funny, like a couple of guys tried to talk to him about it on the weekend. And he basically refuses to talk about it until he's there. He's like, well, you know,

guys who have done that, that he positions it like that, as opposed to myself, he doesn't want any attention until he's uh actually hits the number and i think he's only five points off yeah that's crazy he's at 61.8 percent on the face-off circle this year that's wild yeah so luke you are down at the rink and around the team every single day you are the best question asker in all the scrums we always appreciate uh you know when you get a fox question we really like it when you piss them off lu Luke. Yeah, you know, you ask real questions.

It's great. I want to know if you see any difference in Sheldon Keefe this year. He's got a contract extension. He's not under Kyle Dubas. He's got a contract extension. He's got a contract extension. He's got a contract extension. He's got a contract extension.

Different team. Do you feel like you're getting a different version of him this year than you've seen in previous seasons? I would say we are a little bit. A variation of him when he meets with us behind closed doors who knows I don't know how much of that has to do with the GM change or how much of it has to do with I think there is a genuine concern on his part that this team might not be as good as previous incarnations. And that worries him. You know, this guy, his work ethic is off the charts. I never questioned Sheldon Keefe's level of care or devotion.

I think he's constantly studying tape, constantly looking at numbers, constantly trying to find ways to get the most out of his group. And I think in the early going here, and it's calmed today, certainly I think he was really happy with the Boston effort. But in the early going, I think he was concerned about the blue line. Did he have enough horses back there? About the bottom six? I think there's still some lingering concerns there for sure. And when he feels like that, he has a horrible poker face.

And he lets slip how he really feels, whether, whether it's in his tone or sometimes in his words, or the length of his answers. You can tell a lot by the length of his answers, how good of a mood he's in. Um, and, uh, yeah, he's, he's a fascinating guy, but I, I totally respect him as a hockey mind. I do have questions, whether he's enough of a motivator to get this team over the hump.

I think he's a great coach, but sometimes I question whether he's the guy. So let me ask you then, now that you mention that, yesterday we briefly had a discussion and we talked about his comments before Austin Matthews' two goals Saturday night. And we debated whether he was actually calling out Austin a little bit or where it could fit like on a scale of one to five. So what did you make out of his, I don't know, did he motivate Austin on Saturday?

Yeah, he may have. I mean, that looks like a great move by him. And if it goes the other way if austin has a poor game then then we're we're singing a different tune right like it all it's all results dependent but no you're right he did something out of character i thought it was a pretty gentle call out uh you know he positioned it as austin's a driver for our team and we need him to be a driver if we want to win. And, you know, right now he needs to do more to be a driver is kind of the message he was getting out. He didn't say like, he's been horrible. He needs to step it up. Like relative to other

markets, like, cause Netsop's getting benched, you know, Rick Talkett is, has no qualms about, you know, benching JT Miller, like compared to other markets, this is very gentle. But I did think there was a little poke there, and there was definitely a response. Well, I haven't benched Sammy yet or JB on the shows, but... Am I off? I just got benched. My mic was on mute.

That's like not being ready for a line change. Too many. Let's talk about that, shall we? All right, Luke. Really appreciate your time as always, man. Be ready for tomorrow, too. Yeah, I'm going to Ottawa. We got nothing.

All right, we'll catch you on the 401. Thanks, Luke. Okay. All right, Luke Fox, writer, Sportsnet.ca. Does a terrific job. Yes. Did you want to talk about the too many men or do you want to save that let's uh let's break and get the ot we got uh we got tomorrow we got ot and that's it all right thanks to luke uh and we're gonna come back with

uh hall of famer adam oats don't go away Just warming up here on the real Kipper and born teeing up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame with Ailish for far and Justin Cuthbert weekdays at 6 PM on sports net sports, not five 90, the fan and wherever you get your podcast. All right, let's welcome in former NHL great Hall of Famer Adam Oates, president of Oates Sports Group. Oatesy, how are you, pal? Thanks for coming. Listen, you are one busy guy, so we appreciate you pal? Thanks for coming. Listen, you are one busy guy. So we appreciate you making some time for us.

So where are you coming from? Where did you just go? What's going on in your life? You know what? I was just at the Hall of Fame for the Hall of Fame game, which was a lot of fun. Great to see the old guys and welcoming the new people. And then back in Florida now, and like you guys,

I watch a lot of hockey every day. Today was a long day of video, for sure. And when it comes to you working with some clients or guys that you talk to on a daily basis, where are you on the skill level in terms of what you see or what you haven't been able to see? You know what? I would say the league goes through cycles. And, you know, when you watch every day,

you watch NHL.com, you watch the goals, you're seeing sort of, you're looking for trends, you're looking for the same stuff that coaches are looking for, trying to find that little magic answer of something. And I do the same thing I try I try and look at a particular goal like what was the mistakes on that goal and what was the good plays on that particular goal and then try and figure out a way to implement implement

that into my video package for the guys or the drills we do in the off season. And you know what? I would say that generally the guys are all pretty highly skilled. Right. And the nuances are tough. For example, just because I saw it today, Pittsburgh's power play. We're talking four Hall of Famers right there. And they're struggling on their power play. They haven't scored in 11 games. It's amazing.

And Ariel's sitting up top. Like you would think the common man would think that that's impossible right but there are certain details that have to happen to score a goal like they're not always fluky goals right and obviously they're going through a bit of a tough time right now so honestly on a daily basis i'm looking for anything i can to find to help a player. JB, give us your theory. I think Malkin is a detriment to that power play. He takes these one-timers from distance. He unscreened with the goal he has time to get over.

What do you see on that power play? What's going on? Well, you don't know what they're told, number one. Number two, they brought in Eric Carlson. Yeah. You don't know how Chris Letang felt about that. Maybe they brought him in because Letang's health was maybe a concern. I don't know how Chris Letang felt about that. Maybe they brought him in because Letang's health was maybe a concern. I don't know all that stuff. You have Sid and Gino that are

lefties. You've got Carlson and Letang that are righties. There has to be a chemistry formed. Who gets the puck? Who's technically the shooter? Who's the passer? You look at Tampa, for example, it goes through Kucherov, right? No matter what.

And no matter what. So they've come up with a plan, and they're very good at executing that plan. I don't know. Some teams don't always have that luxury. Some teams don't always have that sort of guys that are willing to be sort of like a shooter, right? They want to be the passer, or vice versa.

And we've all, you know, Kipper, you know that. You play with everybody, and not everybody's adaptable. that are willing to be sort of like a shooter, right? They want to be the passer and vice versa. And we've all, you know, Kipper, you know that. You play with everybody and not everybody's adaptable. Like Alex Ovechkin could not be Nick Baxram. Nick Baxram could not be Ovechkin. So sometimes you need to figure out what the chemistry is. So that brings me to my theory when I first heard about Eric Carlson going to San Jose. And we just had this conversation, Otsi, the other day.

I like alpha dogs in the room, but I also like them on the ice as well. And my first thought when I heard Carlson was going to San Jose is like, who's the alpha dog on the blue line, Brent Burns or Carlson here? Because last time I checked, that was Brent Burns, blue line in San Jose. And now Carlson moves to, to Pittsburgh. And I asked the same question, Carlson or Latang. Can you,

can you have both? Can, how, how sure you just watched it fail miserably in San Jose. Didn't, didn't Kyle Dubas learn anything off of that? Well, and the funny thing too is,

um, if I'm Chris Latang, Hey, wait a minute. I've been here for 15 years and won two thing too is um if i'm chris letang hey wait a minute i've been here for 15 years and won two cups with you guys too so like do i want to take a second fiddle a backseat to eric carlson i know he's a talented man but am i not talented and you know what it's uh these are all the little subplots that happen at, you know, from junior to college to pro level. You cannot have a quarterback controversy. You can't. And we're all good guys, but at the end of the day,

we all want to succeed, right? And right now they're having a tough time, for me, finding the right chemistry. It's ironic because I think it's an old trope from the NFL that if you have two quarterbacks, you don't have any quarterbacks. You know, it's like you're supposed to have a guy um and so i can see that complicating things in pittsburgh i want to give people a sense for the work you do otzi in terms of you said you watch a lot of video like how has technology changed that what is you know how were you able to get through

all this video and and then do you make a package and send it to your clients or how does that work that's that's exactly what i do i i have a team of video guys we have five guys i train them what to look for good and bad yeah and then they send me the stuff and what i do i go through it and i'm looking for little morsels of information and one of the things that i think is good is like i played i coached i know what everybody wants we want some form of success on this particular play right now and uh the drills i designed in the summer are based on achieving that you know like like for example i was thinking of one in case you guys asked was like okay d get a shot in get a shot through from the point okay sounds easy oh right right like you're getting you're getting a pass from your partner or you're getting a pass

from the corner right what's two different ways you have to catch a pass you have to know where that guy that's coming out the block it is you have to you have to shoot around him that takes technique right and you're you're worried about velocity what were you doing to prepare for that before you got the puck so you're in the right spot so you know like for one simple shot from the point there's a lot of little skills that have to go into executing that right and we all see on a night-to-night basis guys get the puck they think about shooting they throw it back down drives the forwards crazy i just want to battle and gave you the puck and you're not shooting it's like like so why did i pass to you and these are all like but there's a lot of little skills that go into that like everything we do and honestly we

we go about just trying to fix all of it and you know the guys i see in the summer they come every so often and like it's usually like a three-day window, and we try and incorporate, say, eight skills into one session type thing. So that would be 24 subjects in three days. We're talking to Adam Oates, former NHLer and president of Oates Sports Group. We're talking skill, skill, skill, skill. The Toronto Maple Leafs, we know, have some of the best firepower in the world right now, O.T. And yet sometimes you watch that power play and you don't get the big goal when you need it most.

It's failed them, unfortunately, for Leaf fans around playoff time. But is there a thought that maybe sometimes it can be too predictable as well when you've got one main shooter like Austin Matthews and a guy like Morgan Riley, most often than not, who isn't a big-time shooter? So if you go back to Tampa, like we talked about, it goes through Cooch, right? So I would say that he is really, really good at making his reads,

whether it's passing to Braden Point in the slot seeing a seam to Stamkos or back to Victor Hedman and you think about it Victor Hedman is not a one-timer if he was a one-timer they'd be even better but still their power play is lethal so I still think it comes down to who's the quarterback and make the reads. And what are the reads based on what the penalty killing is doing? For example, Montreal scored a power play goal last night from Cole Caulfield to Suzuki to Monaghan. Great goal. So whoever they play next, that penalty killing coach is going to see that.

So he's going to probably talk about that in their meeting. So in that game game the next game cole caulfield and susie have an answer for that and i would say that the best power plays have those answers they're ready for that that's probably an under under discussed topic is just like you know what happened last game and how our team's going to adapt before the other team shuts him down that's a big part of of coaching and figuring those sort of things out. So, you know, you look at this Toronto Maple Leafs team, we talked about the skill at the top end of it, their power play, what they can do.

What do you think a fourth line should look like in terms of skill? Are you still, are you okay in today's day and age with a Ryan Reeves? Should it be, do you need to have this sort of handsy players all the way through your lineup? You know, my answer is yes to everything where like do i like ryan reese yeah yeah what he brings yeah right now do i want him

to make one more pass once in a while yeah right sure so why not right like so if you have a big man who's physical who can protect protect guys, it's very valuable. Very valuable. Obviously, in the playoffs, when it gets a little heated, it's even more valuable. But I also think every guy needs to work on his game and get a little better because at the end of the day, you don't want to be replaced. And if you don't get a goal or an assist for 25 games, I can't keep playing you. Because sooner or later something happens right but but in terms of what do you want i mean what if what if you're a fourth

liner and you're not ryan reeves what are you well now you're an energy guy so you're a fast energy guy okay dog on a bone okay so that's what you are then you got to be a dog on the bone on the forecheck you got to stop the puck and i and have guys like this, and one of the things I tell them is you can't fall down. Really? You're not Tom Wilson. You're not Ryan Reeves. You are an energy guy. So you're going to put pressure on that D on the forecheck.

Okay, so you've got to stop the puck. And, yeah, your coaches want you to be a little physical. But what you can't do is fall down. So you've got to go as hard as you can without falling. You fall down, you can't make a pass or shoot a puck. And sooner or later, they won't like that. So you're not a tough guy, but you're on the fourth line, so you have to figure out a way to build your leash, right?

You need some form of success that the coach likes you and keeps playing you. And obviously, you're trying to get to the third line. That's Gregor. likes you and keeps playing you and obviously you're trying to get to the third line that's gregor ot um sometimes we hear that that catch phrase prone to mistakes zadorov no question a lot of teams interested in a big guy that can move around and he does it uh fairly well at 15 minutes but who isn't really prone to mistakes? And how can you teach when you go individually with someone to tone down those mistakes?

Can you, or is it just unrealistic and say the majority of us are prone to mistakes? That's what the game's all about. You know what, honestly, do I think you can fix that? Yes, I do. For sure. The guys, that's why generally I wait for guys to call me. I don't call them because I want them interested in listening.

So the first thing I'll tell you, which I know you know, Gipper, is your stick. Hey, man, maybe you need to change your curve. If you're whiffing the puck, why? If you're the guy that's whiffing the puck, don't you know you whiff the puck? Well, then why? So let's work on your curve so you don't whiff the puck. Right. You got to get the puck out. You're a penalty killer. You got to clear it. You don't get two chances. You get one chance. You get two chances and they score. You get replaced. So, you know, it's called pro. You're a pro.

So a guy like Sadorov, you're right moves pretty good obviously a big man right so they want to put him on the ice if they if he doesn't have enough success sooner or later they won't put him on the ice yeah simple as that with some of those guys it's a tough a tough role to find you know so you know we're always keeping it on the the Leafs here a little bit and one guy this season has struggled to put up numbers he has early in his career max domey scored his first goal of the season the other day um he's a third line guy that you know is a skill guy and so trying to find you know sort of that that niche you're talking about and fitting in what is it you want to see from a guy like max domey that he can bring who is a talented player but isn't

necessarily a top six guy on this team yeah so first of all that makes it very difficult because if if you consider yourself a top six guy and you're not you're fighting you're fighting your anxiety to begin with right and obviously you come to toronto where dad played that makes it hard right you got to get over that tough market um you're not on the first pp which gets the lion's share of the ice time so so it's hard but then you have to look at your own game and what are you doing well what are you not doing well and you try and make one more play you know can you make one more play can you win one more battle can you pass a puck a little bit better like at the day you have to look at of work and what can you do to improve it so that your coach plays you.

Oh, to a sore spot around this part of town in Toronto is too many men on the ice. And it's something that's plagued, I think, Sheldon and his teams the last few years. Is that something you would address with some of your players that you work with or is that strictly a coach and his team like are there some things that you can share that can help avoid someone getting caught in that net well you're gonna laugh when i coach washington we got too many men a few times and i called ovi and and Vaki in and I said, do I really have to have a meeting about this? And the answer was, yeah.

Because you're going to laugh, but some guys don't jump over the boards correctly. Oh, yeah. I don't doubt it for a second. Where's your stick? Let's say I'm taking you. Okay, I got kipper here

comes kipper and i'm a guy that doesn't like just jump over it while still looking so i take my eyes off you to look and you change your mind whose fault is that yeah it's the guy going on the ice yeah that's right the guy that took his eyes off of him yes it's him all the time so i had to have a meeting honest god i swear to god about how to jump over the boards in the nhl yeah that's some guys it is fascinating like like people like you know the one thing i always joke about with the guys is some of the stuff that we work on if people actually watch this they'd laugh so like i first first drill every every session poke checking you watch goals in our league and you watch how many guys miss a poke check it'll make you sick yeah it's unbelievable like i do that guys overstanding ot

just going too too committed whiffing missing missing it wow so what i do first drill i scatter pucks in the neutral zone and i say you got to alternate forehand backhand poke check them you won't believe how many guys missed it's it's unbelievable how many goals are missed because somebody didn't stab a puck or somebody stabbed it fantastic and got something good out of it so that kind of goes to like first touches for demon on retrievals right like justin hall took a hard time here in toronto used to get pasted all the time but he used to poke it somewhere useful i mean that's a valued skill isn't it it's like soccer i always talk about first touch it doesn't not as discussed in hockey like a defenseman going back for the puck is the hardest

play in hockey by a mile yeah agreed you're being chased the puck could be bouncing it might be against the boards it might not you got to have an angle is the goalie in your way are you going to reverse it you're going to strong side it and you have to collect that puck and you know what that's a very hard skill collecting the puck taking a hit to make a play is hard these days. Yeah. I don't even think some guys at the NHL really know or understand how to do that or what it means over the course of a game. We work on battling.

And I would say two reasons, Kipper. Number one, nowadays kids play hockey for eight years without contact. It's a long time. That's eight years of learning habits, right? And you and I played in a more violent time. We did. Thank God. So we got slashed.

We got slashed. We got cross-checked. So we learned how to play close to guys. I love seeing guys close to guys i like yeah unfortunately you gotta you gotta get bumped boys you gotta battle that d net front you gotta you gotta learn how you have to so one one question for me my last one here on these skills and i think it's relating to poke checking a little bit but i think part of the problem with uh matthews and marner this season they didn't have a lot of success in the early part of the season together i shouldn't say the

early part but for a run of games they don't really have a four checker like they did when hyman was there or even uh when bunting was there how does f1 stop the breakout how do you be the first guy and how do you stop that other team from executing their breakout as the first guy in you know what it's a it's a sore subject with me as well because i realize some guys are regarded as physical so so if you get a hit but that d plays the puck useless hey man you're gonna be back checking now i also understand that if it's early in the game trying to set the tone so maybe in the third period that d because you've been hitting him he won't be playing the puck is good i get that too but the point is if you're f1 can you do a

combination of stopping the puck and bumping the guy and obviously now the rules where you can't ram a guy from behind but it makes even more sense when you try and stop the puck if you can stop the other team and stop their speed we can get all five guys in the zone you get all five guys in the zone good things can happen one more for me and it goes right into the again uh maximizing your your skill potential when you're on the ice and it's a pet peeve of mine is length of shifts. Do you have these conversations with your guys? 100%. And what do you share with them to maximize their potential? It depends on which guy and what his leash is and how the game's going along.

And even to the point where I don't think you're working hard enough tonight, that's why you can stay on too long. I mean, at the end of the day, I'm very honest with the guy where like, like if you're not working hard enough, therefore you can stay on longer than your line mates. You put the coach in a tough spot. You know, you're not following up fast enough. That takes more effort.

One of the hardest things for me when I played was, especially as I got older, if I'm F1 in the four check but i see that that d's got the puck i don't want to waste the energy yeah right you have to you have to you got to put pressure on that guy it's your turn yeah you got to burn the energy even though you think he's going to pass it by you it's that's your job you know so do i have those talks all the time kipper actually yeah yeah ot fascinating stuff man always learn something new with you thanks for doing this guys thank you for having me i appreciate it thanks all right adam oats former nhl or nhl legend great hall of famer and president of oats sports group he does a terrific job working with individuals yeah maximizing their performance

i love that you know i i have i love the idea that you get the best players on earth into a league and then you have someone watch them play and go you can't poke check a puck you know because it's real right when you when you watch a lot of video and you go god i've watched 10 four checks in a row and you keep running into the guy but they break it out every time where's your stick yeah you know i will say ryan reeves the guy that often carrying his stick like a flag into battle on the skate in it's like down on the ice stick on puck lead with that love this story about uh having uh an nhl practice on how to get on the ice yeah during play remember having a coach, or a skills coach, talking about sitting on the bench with your blade up when it's your team.

So when you're over the boards, you're immediately blade down instead of having to, like, grab the butt in and pull it like this, like, quarter-second different swing. You know, these guys think about these little details. So you're sitting there with your stick with the blade up as soon as you jump over it. Now you've got to slide it It's a quarter second

If you jump on the ice you're able to play the puck I'm not sure it's going to make a difference at all Canlan Are you guys changing In the door, out the door? No It's shifting to the middle of the bench And the guy's coming on, jump over,

while the guy off the ice... I'm in the bench. Off the ice, comes through the gate. Lots of text in the text line about that interview. People love the Oatsie. Yeah. I mean, he's got a lot of great insights. Oh, I've done many nights with him on Hockey Night in Canada,

and sometimes I'm just like the audience right beside him. I know. Tell me more, Oatsie. Tell me more. You know me more times in this job find yourself we're talking to someone interesting being like listening to him being like oh i'm the guy who has to ask the next question just like wrapped yeah okay our thanks to adam oats in that first hour show hey update sammy is he coming to the jays uh nothing yet nothing yet okay we still got an hour to go here on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. We go national next. Great topics of discussion, including the Arizona Coyotes.

Hottest team. Yes, we do. Okay. Oh, yeah. Hottest team in the National Hockey League. Tampa Bay. Hey, we lit a fire, boys. Oh, we had them dead and buried. And now they're back to life with a big shutout win, Vas lit a fire, boys. Oh, we had them dead and buried.

And now they're back to life with a big shutout win, Vasilevsky, and an update on the Ottawa Senators and Thomas Chabot. Okay, let's have it. You're going to have to wait for that one. That and more. Don't go away. Real Kipper and Born.