Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Scoring Scarcity

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on a pair of back-to-back Leafs losses over the weekend and discuss Auston Matthews' early slump, Matthew Knies emerging as a top-end player, Anthony Stolarz solidifying himself as the starter, the return of the five-forward power play and much more. Later, they evaluate the team's D corps a month into the season, the lack of depth production and Domi's overtime gaffe against the Wild.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates. 

let's officially put a bow on the weekend monday back to work the real kipper and born show at kiprios justin born sammy mckee derrick brandeo and jake the snake schultz with you for the next two hours including all leaf hour edition of our show toronto maple leafs dropped both halves to a back-to-back they snuck out a point sunday on a game that we did on sportsnet but overall not a great feeling on on maybe where they were this weekend where they're at in general let's start with you jb your overall assessment of the weekend first off kip we never did note that our record of doing regional games for sports net and them losing in horrific fashion continued is it us it might be us should they they? You guys just started working for Prime. Yeah.

Prime is the magic touch. If we got to take one for the team. If it means it leaves Cup, can me. Put Sammy and Gordo on the show. What would you say? I'll do it. I don't care. But I'll put a bow on the weekend by saying I thought in the second half of the back-to-back in particular,

they looked slow and tired. And I know it's early in the season. We don't want to hear those sort of things, but slow feels like a bit of a conclusion for me, where this team is just having trouble creating offense, Kip. I mean, there's a number of games this season where they just can't seem to produce enough goals. And we go back to last year's playoffs,

and it more and more is like, well, the core guys score, so let's surround them with non-scorers. And it's like, someone? Can someone, Robertson or McMahon, or someone break out from the depth outside of Matthew Nyes has been a nice plus. That's about it. Slow and tired is what you got out of it, Sammy?

Yeah, I think that's pretty well said. I am a little bit concerned about the play of Austin Matthews to this point of the season, and I think that's a big storyline. Like, listen, when he's going, Marner's going, Nylander's going, Tavares, he goes sometimes, sometimes he doesn't. They're a hard team to beat in general, but when one of the four or two of the four aren't really lighting it up, you really start to see flaws with this team,

and Matthews hasn't been his usual self in terms of shooting the puck in the net i think i've seen that he's got his shooting percentage isn't great to start this year missing the net a lot more than he has been i just don't i don't know if it's the captaincy or whatever but that stuck out to me you know that's a that's the type of game where he makes great pass to nylander on the power play goal but that's one where he shoots one in the net and it's a 2-1 game where you go to overtime he gets one in overtime he's just lacking that sting for me so it was last year where he had the back-to-back hat tricks start the year and then he went through a stretch where i think he had one goal in eight games or nine games yeah something like that and he's been known to have long

streaks of of not putting the puck in the net, but there's no worry here right now, is there? No, not for me. I mean, the funny thing is you look at other players on other teams that score goals, and, oh, that guy gets 40 goals or whatever, and you don't watch him every game. You don't realize 40 goals doesn't come a goal every second game. It comes in a hat trick. That's just kind of the nature of scoring goals

in the NHL. I would say one of the main things for me, Kip, is he's being used differently. He has taken the most defensive zone draws. Him and Marner have started in the D zone more this year than Tavares and Kampf, and that was not the case under Keefe where Tavares and Kampf started more D zone draws.

So they're starting more on their own end. They're spending more time in the d zone than the o zone as a result he's not it's not going in but he's still getting lots of shots i'm not that worried about it you got any fears that it's a greater issue you already hear people going is he hurt is he i've seen the hurt thing yeah everyone says anytime someone's cold for a bit it's like hurt i don't think so. Looks fine to me. I'm not overly worried based on the fact that we've seen long stretches where he's kind of got cold. You know how I believe or my beliefs on where he needs to end up

when this thing's all said and done. Does he need to look like a 60 or 70 goal scorer? If he doesn't get 50, is it a disappointment? No, because we're way beyond that. We're now at the point of what does it look like towards building something towards the playoffs. So he'll always be a threat. There's no question that he'll always be the guy

that they worry about most shooting the puck. We've seen Mitch Marner handling the puck probably more in the last 10 days than we saw all of the first two weeks, two and a half weeks of the season. So he seems to be looking a lot more like himself, albeit he'd like to have more than two goals for the season. But it's just a matter of now Austin finding those seams. Like even the goals that we're accustomed to seeing where he can score from 40 feet out when he toe drags it in,

changes the angle and catches the goalie a little sleep off the post. It doesn't seem like those opportunities are there like they were. I do wonder with those ones if that's just not, that never felt like a sustainable way to score to me anyway. You know, like everyone's kind of figured, all right, he pulls it into his feet, a foot, and he shoots it beside the shin pad and like the goal. I don't know.

That should have been stopped sometimes, and now they're maybe on to him a bit with him. I saw a tweet this morning. This comes from CorsiHL on Twitter. Matthew's 5-on-5 shooting percentage 24-25 is 5.88%. Matthew's 5-on-5 shooting percentage from last season was 14.9%. The power play this year, 6.25%. And last year, it was 20.48%. so there's a huge thing there and this one stuck

out to me he missed the net on 23.2 percent of his unblocked shots this year and last year he missed the net only 17.6 percent of the time that's a big one and to me he is missing the net a lot but i will say a lot of times i i don't love when people talk about shooting percentage because often there's a reason the shots aren't going in. Like, you're not getting to the areas as well. Yeah. You know, you get to the dangerous areas, your shooting percentage goes up. I'm not sure he's getting to the areas quite as well.

You know, I shared that stat with you guys this morning. First place in the NHL in high danger scoring chances this year is Matthew Nyes. Not Austin Matthews, who typically leads those sort of categories. So, you know, I'm not as sure that he's, yeah, your shooting percentage is going to be down if you're not getting into the dangerous areas as much. We've seen a lot of attempts at bad angles for me, you, Sammy, and most of the NHL.

But for him, there's always the thought that he's going to find a way to get a bounce and put it in. He has on occasion from bad angles oh yeah right so he can drive settle they whip it on net low from the you think that one against buffalo last year where he rips it off the sideboards it's in before levi knows it even what happened but you sometimes the stars have to align for that sort of stuff right you got to get some puck luck you got to get when you're so confident that you're not hesitating it's just like it's just happening and we talked about it last night in the power play when he gets the puck right now everything's dusted off right it's a couple stick handles no luck i guess he's left he's always a couple of

touches i just it's funny to me to watch a line that has awesome matthews mitch marner on it and you know matthew nyes i think over the past two weeks i would say that matthews mitch marner on it and you know matthew nize i think over the past two weeks i would say that matthews has been the third best guy on that line which is crazy to say like it's just how good nize has been especially on the forecheck like he he's the most coachable guy ever because brube told him to go north and south. And all he does is go... You're feeding right into his wheelhouse because he's a fantastic skater. He's got about 230 pounds

to go and drive a four check. He's got quick feet for a man that heavy. It constantly plays into where he can... Matthews just has the puck so much less because of how well Matt Marner is it is nye's being noticed that much more at the expense of austin matthews game it's interesting i just opened up sport logic to look at some stats and like first

place in the nhl and expected goals based on shots and stuff is austin math yeah you know he's ahead of kareel kaprizov nikita kucherov like he's still pretty good but yeah i i get the idea that it has changed with nize's resurgence or emergence he is becoming a top-end guy you know maybe this isn't the time to talk about it but i wonder if team usa is interested in eyes he is a different player than he was last year you look at his ice time per game for the Leafs, 14 minutes, 15 minutes, 16 minutes. Last night, he's 19 and a half. He's catching up to Nylander. He's ahead of Tavares.

This guy is becoming a star for this team. They have a lot of good players. Is that? They got a lot of good players. That's true. They're so loaded, maybe that's a... And Boldy's the kind of guy with Guerin leading the charge would probably take more of a place as a role

than Nye's for me right now. For sure. Yeah, so I'm not overly concerned about Matthews, but I think his lack of production, you can kind of point to their uneven start in terms of he's won them so many games where he just scores two or three, has three points, has four points.

Like it's just. They're 6-5-2. If he's got a few more goals than the power plays average, they're, you know, 8-3-2. So a lot of it comes down to that for me. But, I mean, they're getting nothing from the bottom six. Like, you know, you get the late one from Lorenz where he scores against the Blues.

Yeah, that was. Good goal. But he's the second of the year. You know, camp's giving them nothing offensively, obviously. Domi barely doing anything. It's just, it's very tough. Outside of being snakebitten,

we saw a pretty good response from Austin Matthews, albeit down 3-1, 200 feet from your own net. You don't typically want a player to take a penalty at that point of the game. But it wasn't just anybody. It was Austin Matthews coming to the aid of Mitch Marner. Let's get Craig Bruby's thoughts on that Saturday night. I have no problem with Matthews doing what he did.

I mean, Mitch Marner got drilled at the side of the net. It should have been a penalty. They missed it. For sure that's a penalty, and they missed it. He's sticking up for his teammate there. I have no problem with that. I think that's nice to set the precedent that I'm going to be okay with those penalties.

You guys want to stand up for each other? Green light from the coach. I like that. Not to do ref corner here. Do it. What are you looking at? Hey, Stripes, what are you watching? Are you... One of the premier players is standing in front of the net where the puck is, gets frozen, and he gets absolutely buried.

It's just nothing? Yeah. And then you give Matthews one for the retaliation? That's just world-class bad refereeing. Yeah. That drives you nuts. Drives you nuts if you're a coach. They did kill it off.

Yeah. It drives you nuts if you're a coach. They did kill it off. And that's one of those where short-term pain for long-term gains. That's kind of the response that you can hope Austin is feeling now moving forward with his new captaincy, that that's something that shouldn't be any hesitation. There shouldn't be any second guessing. Somebody's got to go into that pile and say, that's just not good enough. But, you know, there have been now a few games where in our group chat or even just in person when we've been there like last night,

it's like now would be a good time for Matthews to have like a shift. And he doesn't seem to have an extra step or a gear or whatever it may be. But, you know, we talked about Nyes and gave him lots of praise here on the show already. Going in on the four check in the second and third period of that game against Minnesota. There's a couple times he's going in and kind of pushing the guy. You try doing it like 40 times in 24 hours. I know. Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying that it's a natural progression that you can't play that hard that often every shift

and give Craig Brew exactly what he wants. So I'm not surprised if the foot's off the gas pedal a bit. Think about the way these guys have played since they broke into the league and what craig's asking for it's night and day and pace of play with back-to-backs and now how many of those grade a four check games are you going to have over the course of 82 games well that's it so does that mean berube should change it a bit in the regular season does i don't know or get in better shape like i don't think he's going to take his foot off the gas pedal and that's where you hope that you got 20 guys so if if nize isn't on top of his four check game then mcmahon's going to pick up

the pace holmberg's going to pick up the pace other Holmberg is going to pick up the pace. Other guys you're going to lean on over, over the course of the season. But if they all kind of shut down at the same time, then you're going to have nights like last night where it really looks like your foot is off the gas pedal. It's funny. Last year, they averaged 26.7 hits per game and they averaged actually fewer than that this season with

Berube but it does seem like there's more of an effort for guys to go in and do that so I don't know how that checks out necessarily it does seem tiring though to play that way so whatever it may be it was visible to me at the end of that game so back to back on the road. Just to finish off on Matthew's

thing and it's you know something we talked about a little bit on Lee's Talk last night. Doug mentioned it on Friday in our Off the Rails segment where the 200-pound C off Tavares' chest onto Matthew's. Like, is that something here? You know,

like, Mitch Marner's got 14 points and Matthew's is, you know, kind of right there with him. He's got two goals. Like, we don't think Marner's suffering from anything or William Nylander's got less points than last year. He a no okay i'm just saying i'm just you know i'm just saying like i think it's like a we're looking for a reason and i just it's just the results i guess they all results have always fallen with him but you know when you're not when you're not

the captain i guess it's a little bit different but when it's a shaky start with you wearing the sea maybe it feels a little bit different i don't know I'm just I'm looking for reasons yeah no it's it's a fair it's a fair question it's a fair point that that he may be feeling a little differently this season and I hope that we keep seeing these subtle changes

in his his leadership to build off of what we saw Saturday night coming to the aid of Marner, but there's no doubt after, what, eight seasons now that his first thought is, if I'm going to lead this team, I got to lead putting the puck in the net.

That's the most natural feel that he has. After that, he's going to have to come out of, you know, the mindset that as long as I'm scoring, I'm good. And it's like, no, no, no, no, not anymore. Now it's plus, plus, plus as the captain of the Leafs. Maybe he's got a few different things he's thinking about besides putting the puck in the net.

Yeah. It could be all a combination, right? New coach, more D zone starts, wearing the C. putting the puck in the net and yeah it could be it's all a combination right new coach more d-zone starts wearing the c it's all just weighing a little bit differently on how he was feeling i will say that i thought that line was awesome defensively last night yeah like i thought that was they had some heavy shifts in the first year they had the puck and uh that eric's neck is a really good defensive center and i think he probably played 85 to 90 of the minutes against matthews i thought it was a good, it was

a tight game, and you know, they didn't get the extra point, but just interesting question on Matthews' captaincy. Anthony Stolarz was the reason they got a point last night. Yeah. You know, that third period, the Leafs had nothing left in the tank, and he was battling. The coach mentioned something

to that effect. It's a short, sweet one like many of them were over the past weekend. But Berube clipped seven on Stolarz. We were a little gas in the third, you know. Killed a lot of penalties. And we were gas, but he stood tall for us, you know. Yeah, it was a good point. Good point.

Would we say he dropped his stick six times last night? Four, for sure. I mean, that thing, yeah. I don't know what kept happening. It's giving me bad Samsonov flashbacks, boys. That's where the comparison ends, mind you. But, boy, he dropped his stick a lot. And that reminded me of Samsonov used to do it every game.

Yeah. We'll pick up on Solars. Let's just get an overall thought from Craig Berube on last night's game versus the Minnesota Wild. Well, we just, you know, for me, it's the mindset. We didn't play the way we played the first, you know, direct, hard on things, pucks. I thought

that we were late in the second period, and you know, we tried to make a couple plays late in a shift, and it turns over, and that's a result of the first goal they got. Now these guys are going back in their own zone, tired. It's things like that, managing the game. But for me, it's playing the way we played in the first period.

We didn't do that in the second. Okay, that was the Blues, actually. That was the game against the Blues, yeah. But it could almost work. You know, the one point he did make there about how they tried to make a play late in a shift and it's about staying on the gas doing the consistent little things getting it deep and they didn't do it against the blues why don't we take it to barubi clip three and his overview

of the wild game now real good battle special teams were good tonight power play got us a goal and um you know we killed killed penalties well tonight okay short and sweet yeah short and sweet so let's just stay on stole ours for a second because i think it was our post-game comment last night on sportsnet where we had a discussion on, I think we expect Stolarz to play Boston. And I'm like, and Friday for me and possibly wall, maybe on Saturday.

But for me, it's crystal clear after the weekend that like Stolarz is just head and shoulders above Joseph Wall and that you are now not exactly lighting it up in the Atlantic. And if you want to start distancing yourself from the middle of the pack in the Eastern Conference, start leaning on Stolarz a lot more. Yeah, and I didn't agree last night. I don't agree now. I feel like Wall deserves a chance to get his feet under

him because i think if you don't let him get his feet under him you're relying on stolars and that now you got no backup plan i think you do not agree secure the backup plan you can remain the backup plan well sure it's back a plan but like let him get playing well playing being a part of the team no team b it was meant to be Team A and Team B. Sorry, it was meant to be starter. Based on this, you've got Joseph Wall starting tomorrow night against the Boston Bruins. That's fine.

The Bruins aren't any better than the Blues or the Wild or any other team. I think they're nuts if they start Joseph Wall against the Bruins tomorrow night. I mean, this is what we criticized Sheldon Keefe for, was that it was always everything he could to get the two points that night rather than zooming out and being like, what's the best thing for this team this year?

But I think the two points are really important against the division. I know, you're too desperate, too early. You're too desperate. I mean, Sammy. I'm a division rival. Totally team stole-ers. He's the better goalie. I obviously prefer him right now too.

I think right now, like Kipper said, you're kind of off to an uneven start. And every game that he's gone in there, I guess outside the Rangers game, where he was still pretty good, but he gets out goaltended by the best goalie in the world, he's given you a chance to win and has been excellent. He's been one of the main reasons you've won a lot of these games.

To me, you press. I don't know how long this is going to last with stolars like i i'm loving it i'm so invested in the guy i just love watching him play net i think you just ride the hot hand here and to me it's stolars tuesday stolars friday wall saturday second half of back to back that's what i'm doing stolars has just made the save that he needs to make. Yeah. And Saturday night, Wall didn't. I agree. And I don't know what he ended up with.

He had some bad luck. Three on 14 shots. I don't care how well he played. You can't give up three goals on 14 shots. It had to be 24 shots. Well, no, the first three goals. Oh, I see. Right?

It's not the total shots. I think he gave up three on, don't know 14 16 whatever it is it's not a great number put him behind the eight ball they didn't dig themselves out he needed to make a save off of uh pareko he needed one save the second one the second one the second one he just needs to make that save that's a stolars save yeah right from training camp on out. But no one listening to the three of us right now is hearing me say Stolarz is bad or not good enough or wouldn't make saves.

To me, it's like, Lowell was in game six of the Stanley Cup playoffs for the Leafs last year and was amazing, about to shut out the Bruins, and all of a sudden the momentum was like, this guy is the guy. He's saving their season in game five and game six, and he's the dude.

He's hurt in the camp. And then he lost his net. He's lost his net. He's lost his net because someone else played well, not because he played poorly. He deserves a chance to recover. When do you ever lose your net other than that? When you play badly.

That's the other time you do. And he hasn't lost it because he's played badly, and we're in game 12. Give him a a check a chance to find it again you've won the net so far and i need a big win against a rival tuesday night yeah they do need to win so let's just learn let's just agree to disagree agree thanks kev but i like you're sure if you want to go like stolars is absolutely no-brainer starting tuesday for me if you want to go, like, Stoller's is absolutely no-brainer starting Tuesday for me. If you want to talk about Friday, if Friday's wall, that's fine. Then you switch it to Stoller's in the second half, the back-to-back, that's fine.

But there is no world that if I'm the coach or the general manager or anyone making a decision, that Anthony Stoller's is starting Tuesday night. It's a huge game. He's earned it. He's been way better. He's been there. He's been available. Done.

End of story. All right. End of story. Good. I can't believe it. So you, anyways. We're good.'s been available. Done. End of story. All right. End of story. Good. I can't believe it. So you, anyways. We're good. We're good.

I've said my piece. I know, but I disagree with it. We've agreed to disagree. Two against one. We win. We do not agree. I don't know if that's how it works. Do you think if the Leafs made decisions on their lineup based on the three of us finding

a majority opinion, do you think they would have more success than they've had? Boy, I don't know. That's a great question. Probably not. How about you? 100%. That's a great job. Oh, my God.

Okay. Power play. 50%. Last night, 50%. How do you feel other than great about i believe power play right now i thought it looked a lot better you know it's uh you know i think i've told you a couple times i mentioned last night i was a forward who played the point on the power play in college it's very hard to make that transition mitch marner is significantly better

at walking the blue line than me. But it is risky. That's not the word you used last night. And I don't know if you said it on air. I think you said it on air or you told me it off air. But you used the D word. That's dangerous? No. Desperate?

Yes. Well, they're obviously desperate. Did you say that on air or off air? I don't remember. I'll say it on air. They're desperate, baby. It was perfect. Yeah.

And when you're in last place with 50 million bucks out there, putting five forwards is a desperate move. Are we all in agreement on that? Great observation. That's like, you know, that's like putting left-handed from 10 feet.

Talking to my dad. Hi, Dad. Good short-term move to kind of alleviate some of the pressure that's on you and Mark Savard. But there's no longevity with five forwards. You don't think so? No one's done it with any prolonged success. We are at the beginning of November. Just picture OEL and Morgan Riley sitting beside each other on the bench

for a month without seeing any power play time other than maybe the last 15 but you're worried that they'd be grumpy about it it's just more separation like there's no world that you cannot pick one D to go out there on a power play. It's just, it doesn't work. For me, it doesn't work. And it kind of goes back to the Team A, Team B thing. It's okay for now. But eventually, you're going to have to need those guys to come back. It feels like the unplug and replug of an electronic device that's not working.

Or like in basketball, you're playing 21 with someone where you throw it off the free throw line so they have to move their feet. You'll spin her? Yeah, it just feels like, I don't know, let's just try and get them off the line here and start over. So yeah, a little bit of desperation.

Yes, I do think though, like if you... Like Oli was brought in to help Morgan. Morgan Riley and Alden Power Play 2 were the plan. They make $10.5 million combined between those two and neither of them can get on the Power Play? Yeah, but if one of those guys comes off, someone else who makes a lot of money comes off. I mean, it's...

No, but you have the two defensemen that are supposed to be offensively inclined. It's not a good look. OEL was the guy who... Klingberg was supposed to be the guy last year. Yeah, I don't remember sitting here with you before the season hearing that OEL was going to run PP1. No, no, it wasn't about PP1.

It was about a viable option to help. It's an option, and right now he's not the best one. To help Morgan. And now you're asking both of them to sit and watch a power play. I just, I was okay with it i liked it last night i like marner back there i like the way marner can disguise and uh doesn't solve the shot from the top problem but but he does it would help if he had a bomb back there but he can sift it through and he did that last night he found a way to find a lane and but

probably a better decision maker up top there than either oliver eckman i mean he's one of the best passers in the nhl absolutely and he's making great great decisions and he's got a bit of defensive instincts didn't they play him at defense a year ago that was the thing i forgot about that happened right but you know you made the point like or was it elliot that he thinks sometimes he the big shot's gone and i'm like i just watched the weekend i watched pareko with two huge shots from the point then i watched tampa and bouchard or bouchard spurgeon last night he one times it off of uh minnesota's first goal in front of the net and i'm like like, the big shot lives, man.

Hedman's threat. It's the threat of it. It's the nuclear option. It's that if you're not in these lanes, because we move it around, just so you know, we can hit it from here. And it's nice to have that option. There's also this guy that's closed in

on a pretty big record in Washington that hammers it pretty hard, too. Slaps the shot. He hammers it pretty good. So you need to have the threat, and they don't have it. next hour we'll have alan may talk about that a little bit more capitals analyst for monumental sports network and frank cerebelli will join us at the top of the hour as well so plenty more um it does fall apart though the five forward

power play i saw it in the marley's uh that we tried it for a while and it led to the biggest dubas and keith fight i ever saw where at one point keith said why don't you why don't you fix it then big mouth so it's like that was you know we'd given up like three shorties and two games of the five-man power play if you stick with it for long enough you'll have that game where it's just a couple of shorties straight away they they did get caught out on the ice for the whole two minutes lucky and uh and, too. And Austin ended up being the last guy back. It reminded me of Marchand in overtime with Austin back there where I was like, he looks tired, and that's Kaprizov on him. Kaprizov didn't get the puck to challenge him one-on-one,

but it wasn't that far off from it happening. So, yeah, you don't want to stay with it for too long. No defensive instincts are natural for forwards. It is funny, though, how bad their yips are on the power play that the first unit had five forwards and the second unit had two D-men. It's like we literally have no idea what we're doing. And even I think Nylander's one-timer,

winning off the skate of the Ds. He didn't hit it hard. They needed a break there to get one. Savvy's like, I don't know. I'm just throwing anything. They're literally dead last. It's crazy. What about no forwards?

I would be no forwards. They're desperate. Let's go to Morgan Riley, get his thoughts on the game last night. Interesting. I thought it was a good hockey game. Obviously not high scoring, but that's okay. I think we want to get comfortable playing in those types of games. You know, coming in here on a back-to-back um i thought we were pretty good in the first um i thought we battled and you know that's a good team and so um that is a good game and um it's

unfortunate we don't get the extra point um but we're moving in the right direction they did grind they did they did it's a heavy game the wild are second best team in the nhl defensively by pretty much every stat like they don't give up much they're a tough team you like their decor a lot i think it's quietly one of the better ones in the league so let's take a look so after the we're gonna take a break here soon about the break we'll talk more about you know robertson and all that stuff but i'm impressed with what Bill Guerin's done with that team. They're sitting on a cap head of 15 million? Yeah, 14 and a half that they can't use.

He's going to take that nothing trade that we thought about, Kevin Fiala, that Brock Faber, and he's going to run it for the next 15 years. That Faber, I'm watching him last night. They were playing 25 a night. I'm watching him last night i'm watching him last night buzzing he is for me like a chris chelios without the the ugly mean streak right-handed guy right-handed guy that can control the game defensively seldom is out of uh out of uh position and and always finds a way to make the right play in a calm way.

Meanwhile, Fiala's a scratch because he's missing meetings. They gave up a first, too. It was a first-end Faber for Fiala. So Faber's playing with Middleton. Middleton's having a great year. Spurgeon's playing with Jonas Brodine. Brodine's solid, too.

I don't know anything about Declan Chisholm. He's like Eckholm in Edmonton for me. Brodine. That's Swedish D. Frozen face-off. Yeah. I just... Frozen face-off. I don't know what it's called. Frozen four nations. Four nations face-off. Four facing nations off. There's no

Frozen in it. That's a huge number to like you're playing with a anvil on your back with 15 million bucks like that's three players that's it's like it's impressive until you recognize they chose to wear the anvil we're all looking for the guy but i i'm impressed man and you know they wore those jerseys last night they look so good sexy kit yeah kaprizov looks really good. Although I thought the Leafs did a pretty good job on him last night. But anyways, just I'm impressed by them.

Okay, let's catch our breath. And when we come back, we'll get in more on the Leaf blue line in terms of those block shots. One guy special. I will tell you who it is after the break. You're watching and listening to The real Kipper and Bourne show. Diving deep into Leafs, Raptors, Jays, and NFL. The JD Bunkers podcast.

Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Kipper, it's Justin Bourne. Sammy McKee. mckimpery house justin bourne sammy mckee so overall the blue line we heard from morgan rally uh just moments before we went to break uh nothing outstanding no one got shot out of a cannon to start the season but we believe that there's more depth and it's better than what we've been accustomed to seeing the last few years for sure no argument for me there like i think mccabe's gotten better i him and matana have playing together as a pairing you could actually picture in the playoffs shutting somebody down like i like that pairing yep bottom pairing leave me a little wanting, I would say.

But you know what that is for me? It's like Timmons has been, like, almost, like, found money. Yeah, he's been good. Benoit's not been the same player. How many minutes did Timmons get last night? I felt like he was out there a lot. He was out there an awful lot. I would get you that answer.

Right? And I think we discussed this before the weekend that Benoit, you said maybe lost a step i said i just doesn't seem like to me that he's processing as quick i think i thought he was a little better on the weekend minutes for timmons timmons 18 minutes that's a big number that is in a close game and uh benoit got 16 and a half i think if there's two guys that have taken advantage of an opportunity and really run with it, it's Nyes and Timmons. It would be one-two under a new coach, right? Yeah.

And on the other side of that, I know we want to stay in the decor, but McMahon and Kampf, we'll get to them later. Okay. And the overall effect Chris Tannev has had, we know what he's notoriously known for, and that's putting his face in front of every shot. Let's get Berube's thoughts on the D core. Not just Tanev, but all of them on blocking shots.

D are doing a great job of blocking shots. Big part of the game is being hard in front of your net we talked about it tonight there we talked about you know that team they use their d a lot and they get a lot of pucks through and so we're gonna be hard on our net tonight i thought we did a good job i know last night you had a couple examples where oh we all likes to throw one up the middle. Yeah. A couple of pizzas. He's not afraid to toss one. But it's just like he's such a good skater.

Sometimes like skate it. There's room ahead of you. And he tries to like fire one through traffic in the neutral zones. Don't do that. We don't need you to do that. He actually is leading the Leafs in nice time this year. Shocked, anyone? Really? Yeah. i am shocked riley's like fourth he's behind mccabe oel tana yep some of that probably has to do with him not playing pb1 yeah does that worry you at all in terms of wear and tear for oel

tan of oel all of it not really like none of them are playing like a crazy amount. I think he's got 22 minutes or something for OEL. Like it's nothing. Two through the roof anyway. So the majority of the concern, I know we earlier in our show, we were talking about the lack of production out of Austin. He's got to get going. But that probably puts a lot more stress on him

when others underneath him can't find the net either yeah i just wanted to add hawkenpaw is going to come back yeah do you think he'll uh take out benoit i don't know if they're that blue line has uh hawkenpaw and benoit in in the same game yeah the same idea i don't know how take Timmons out with his right-handed shot in his 18 minutes. Yeah. So tell me what's left then. But Hockenpah's a righty too,

so they're going to have two righties on the bottom pair? No, it'll be poor Timmons. You think Timmons is coming out? Yeah, I think so. I mean, they're going to want to see if Hockenpah can be of help. With Lilligren gone, they kind of need Hawk and Paw to be okay. Anyway, wait and see on that. Yeah, yeah.

Like I said, your guess is as good as mine right now. Yeah. I will say I do love how much the Florida Panthers rubbed off on Oliver Ekman-Larsen. Really surprising. Gracie. Gracie. And actually hits guys.

I don't ever remember him like that in Arizona. No. Or Vancouver. He just seems annoyed. He didn't have any edge at all in Vancouver. I don't remember it like this. I don't remember it either. I'd love to hear it from people, but I've watched him long enough

and I can't remember being like, ooh, he's got a little, but he's looking for guys. And sneaky dirty, eh? Well, he. Which is great. Hootie pie. Was it Rossi that he did like the... I've been watching the Vince McMahon doc.

He went full Stone Cold Steve Austin. That guy just like hammering him on the eyes. Like he was punching him and then he was sitting on the bench fooling with his thing. And then Reeves goes over. Like I love that stuff. So yeah, I mean, maybe he didn't need to take an extra two, but he's been sneaky greasy and it's good. Yeah, that's a positive.

You were starting to talk about depth scoring. Yes. Part of the reason that Austin is playing so much in the d zone is just they don't like camp bruby doesn't like camp and he's playing what 12 and a half 13 minutes a night so now austin's in his own end more so that's one thing and then bobby mcmahon is feels like a very fringe guy here can't get any opportunity up the lineup and that line with him and domey domey has no points in seven straight games mcmahon that's gone real cold awfully cold and mcmahon's the same i don't think he has a point in a long time we saw nick robertson scratched saturday night only to come back in the lineup against minnesota I know we had our preseason

conversations on over under for Nick you were very optimistic I got him over 20 goals on the year that's what I said I don't is there a chance if he gets traded soon it could happen is there any room at all that he finds a way to contribute like he did last season with his 15 14 i'm gonna say last night was the worst i've seen him play in i don't know you know you know why why because he's not playing the game that he thinks like he's playing right he's trying to like hit guys run them out he's like trying to play that he's six foot he thinks he's playing. You're right. He's trying to hit guys, run them out. He's trying to play that he's 6'2", and he's you know, Berube's telling me a way to play,

and he's totally caught between what he's trying to do out there. He has no idea. God, that's the best analysis you've ever done. It's true. Oh, thank you. I mean, I'm not sure what that says about my other analysis, but he's just stuck. He doesn't know what he's supposed to do on the ice. He's running into guys like he's, you know. You see him angling guys into the boards, and he can't physically get them into the boards.

I don't know if you guys are watching the game closely. There was a fourth line shift where they must have cycled the puck for a minute and a half. We clipped it last night. And Nick Robertson comes over the boards, has the puck for a millisecond. The guy hammers him and the puck goes out.

Literally just separated him and the puck from the gentle shoulder and was like, okay. It was a minute and a half they had it in the offensive zone and then the second he touches, it's gone. Yeah. It was really really bad. We had a clip to show last night, but we were trying to keep it a little more positive. Oh my god. You guys are

so nice. Different guys on the panel, right? You're nice guys on the panel. We had two hours to let the real personality pour out. And on this show, we speak like no one's listening. Or no one cares. This is locker room style. Maybe they don't care.

TV's a different beast. Maybe they don't care. But really it comes back to those conversations we had before, is that if he doesn't get an opportunity to be a top six guy or start a power play, which he did during the exhibition series and yep found a way to get on this with a player or two usually the top line guy there was just never any room for him and he's really fallen back right to the same spot he was with sheldon keith yeah and he he's played 1140 last night,

had his shot or whatever. But the reason I said he played bad last night was a purely physical evaluation of his game, not like his puck touches were bad or he didn't, like he just couldn't get guys off the puck. He got separated from the puck when he had it. All the things where you go size matters were visible last night. And they're just, that's's not changing he's not going to become so i'm with

you sam he should almost just i am i'm an offensive player i'm gonna cheat i'm gonna do all the things and try to get goals for you because i'm not gonna help you if you're asking me to be a well-rounded guy or try to sneak him up into the top six for a shift here there maybe you can see one go in like it's just what you're trying to make him into, stop trying to make Fetch happen. It's not going to happen. It's just not his game. And playing him with Domi and McMahon

or Holmberg, it's not a good mix. Well, it's not a good mix because none of them are going right now. McMahon, Domi, Holmberg, who's a healthy scratch as well on the weekend and robertson there's four depth role players for the toronto maple leafs that can't find the back of the net and it says something that holmberg's a scratch because

he loves holmberg and wants it to work he wants a true center a strong guy who's committed defensively he likes the idea of holmberg but he just has been so ineffective and i think a couple shows ago we had a clip from him where he said that holmberg just looks a step behind right now and i i've that didn't change and i think that's why he was out of the lineup uh so i mean the bottom six in the game last night they have six goals combined on the season right three from mcmahon one from robertson and two from lorenz and the one from robertson was in a 6-1 game yeah when they were losing 6-1 yeah right like you're not unless you're i mean we're getting back to the core of

the issue for eight years here but it's just it's not good enough from the bottom half of the lineup. No. You go to the Marlies, you use an example out of one of them for a longer stretch than one healthy game. Scratch. Send someone down? Is that what you're saying? What's Alex Nylander up to? Do you look for a trade right now?

Going into American Thanksgiving? I think that a lot of the underlying numbers for the Toronto Maple Leafs are that they're doing pretty good. I don't think this team's in crisis by any means, so I don't think that's necessary. They are desperate for a center. But you have just mentioned moments ago that this has been an ongoing issue here with this hockey club,

the secondary scoring. It's not like just we're talking the last two weeks the first guy where you're like okay there's one other guy you know there's a fifth guy who could conceivably score like do you put him somewhere else i actually don't think that's a bad idea at all like he has looked like he could drive a line do you put domey up on the top with those guys and let nize go down and try to drive guys a bit but then you're losing what you're it's maybe you're just shuffling deck chairs on a certain ship i don't know but it's just it's not pretty right now uh i know we don't talk about three on three a lot

because it's not real hockey but can you explain the domey thought process yeah um sure so i'm gonna sneeze so someone else talk a minute oh oh her sneeze. Kip will kill me if I sneeze. What? Damn it. I tried so hard. Now I'm the only one that has not sneezed this season. Okay. Let's talk about Domi. First off, the patch ready play last night,

we gave way too much credit to. You know, Elliot was like, yeah, I can see what he's thinking. He's going to the wall. He's the last guy up the ice. Someone's changing he's cheating looking for uh turnovers it's a terrible play by patch already last night who's not fast already and probably shouldn't be out on three when he went over matthew nyes hasn't been out yet i was watching the game by myself and i saw him go over the boards i was like patch already yeah i said that out loud to myself to no one

i was like really and sure enough that burned him. Max just thought he was going to skate into a 40-foot push. He didn't recognize, right, that someone was a step behind him with a little more energy and momentum. And so the first touch was a little aggressive, punted up the ice. Yeah. And then the natural feel is that he's either going to skate the puck back and then regroup or throw it up the wall. And pretty smart little bugger.

Yeah. Puts it right back up the middle of the ice to a wide open. Boldy. Two of them. It was a two on O. Beautiful finish. Oh, that finish was so nasty. So, so nice.

Like just Stoller's wasn't within, I don't know, 10 feet of stopping that. Threw it off the barn. A couple other thoughts. First off, in their last 20 overtimes, they've won eight times. So they're 8-12 in their last 20. 3-3 sucks. Okay. And Willie must have all those. This is not sour grapes because

your favorite team didn't win, but I'm sick of it. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of watching one face off turned into uh figure eights for a minute it's just it's bad it's skate for the love of god it's challenge the d so when did this flip because when it first started it was was electric. It was breakaways, two-on-ones. You know what the grossest part of three-on-three is? It's watching you gain a zone and then a guy go,

take it back out to the neutral zone again. I think I'm in favor of the floating blue line. Three or four times to watch a puck enter a zone and then purposely bring it out because you just feel like regrouping again and killing another 30 seconds off the clock. Please do something about this. What's the floating blue line, Borny?

It's like once you cross the blue. It disappears. Or the blue line would become the red line at that point. So the offensive zone is all the red line, and if you take it out past the red. It won't solve anything because they'll just treat it the same way that they're just it's just it's the delay of waiting and waiting and waiting it's just it's so not hockey like it's so like if the nhl wants if the nhl wants it that badly like create a three-on-three league.

Didn't that happen? Wasn't that a rumor for a minute? I don't think so. No, I don't think it was either. Yeah. It's bad, though, Kim. And it's frustrating to watch. And often I think these guys are excited that we've all decided we're just going to get to have it for a bit and play around.

It's like, for the love of God, challenge, challenge. Skate fast. Yeah. Or just go to four and four the other thing for the leafs uh i got a message from uh from a friend here just that they do have depth scoring potential help does yarn crocker do or interest you they any better with either of those guys yeah they're 10 goals combined will help i actually thought the exact same thing where i was like yarn crock got 20 he's probably good for 14 this year. He tops. Pro-rated for his injury. I don't think Aaron Croft's close.

No way. No. You don't hear much. Don't hear much. No. I'm not sure if he's... Doerr scored for the Marlies. I don't think he's skating regularly yet. I could be wrong.

We'll maybe send a note to Luke. But you tell me, all of a sudden that guy's going to pop in in the next week? I don't think so. I don't think so either. That doesn't seem imminent, no. Doerr probably more so. At which point you have don't think so. I don't think so either. That doesn't seem imminent. No, Dewar probably more so. At which point, you have a natural centerman.

And just give him a look. See if he can give you something that Holmberg wasn't. Then Kampf comes out of the lineup. Holmberg stays out of the lineup. Holmberg. Does Holmberg have an option? Can he go back down? I don't know.

I think he... Taking him out? Yeah, someone is. He may have to clear waivers, I think. They might have to trade a human. Yeah. We towards that yeah i know where's that just right now everybody's still going through the feel-out process coming out of training camp but we are getting at that point where you know some teams like the winnipeg Jets have established themselves so well to start the season that they. They're 500 from here out.

They're fine. They're fine. Oh my God. They're so good. 500. 11 and one. 11 and one. Minnesota.

Minnesota too. If they play 500. Playoffs. They get in. Yeah. And you look at the. Leafs on an 88 point pace, I think. You look at the East right now, right?

And it's like Ottawa's pushing, right? But they're a mid-team right now, but they're really in the thick of things with the Leafs and a bunch of other teams. But we know who's in. We got Alan May coming up in the next hour, but where's Washington now all of a sudden to throw a curveball into the east?

And what does it look like? Is it four and four out of the east? Is it five and three? Is it five in the Atlantic? Is it five in the Metro? It's four and four. Florida, Tampa Bay, Toronto, Ottawa, and then New York, Carolina, Washington, New Jersey.

There's your playoff team. Who else is getting in? Let's fast forward to April, baby. Boston or Detroit. For you. I'm not saying it. I'll say they're in because that means they'll be out. Hold on.

We got another hour. We're going national coming up next. Frank Cervelli, Hockey Insider, President of Hockey Content with the Daily Face-Off. We'll get his thoughts on could we see a Leaf trade? Hope so. He'll tell us. This show would love it.

Okay, don't go away, everybody. We're just getting things started here on the Real Kipper and Bourne Show. Back after these words.