Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Setting up Shop in Stockholm

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with murmurs of potential trades for the Leafs as they settle in Stockholm, TJ Brodie surprisingly involved in trade whispers, what it would cost to get rid of John Klignberg's contract and what the Flames would ask in return for a defenseman. Later, a conversation on the challenge of a mid-season trip to Europe and how the time off and jetlag will impact the team. Finally, former NHL head coach Claude Julien (30:02) shares his thoughts on how coaches mitigate distractions in international games, the Oilers' decision to fire Jay Woodcroft and looks around the league at coaching impacts on teams' hot and cold starts.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

it's the real kipper and born show on sportsnet 590 sportsnet 360 and sportsnet plus from four From 4 to 6, Eastern. And remember, download us wherever you find your pod. And text Sammy, JB, and even me, 590-590. Is that your personal number? Way better ideas or answers than we do on this show. Nick Kiprios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee, Derek Brandeo, Jen Rolnick. This is the Toronto Maple Leaf Swedish edition of our show. So I left here yesterday. Went to go play my weekly hockey game with the Zig Zags, as I talked about.

Yeah. Just got to the rink. All the guys are getting there. We're all buzzing, getting excited, ready to play hockey, chatting it up. Power in the the rink all the guys are getting there we're all buzzing getting excited ready to play hockey chatting it up power and the whole rink goes out just i mean pitch black like in the room like picture how dark a room no lights not pay your registration well listen it's a bit of a sticking point with their team we're like well maybe they're cutting the lights out on the all of ashl because they don't pay anyways lights go out we're like well i guess we'll go to the parking lot and have a beer after like we usually do let me tell you doesn't hit the same without

the hockey and as we're out there power comes back on it was on just long off just long enough for our game to be canceled oh all for not so we're there from it goes out from 7 till 7 30 we didn't get to play but we had a cold beer in the parking lot without the hockey, and it just wasn't the same. Are you allowed to have a cold beer in the parking lot? Of course. No one ever gets in trouble with me. I mean, I don't know. These days, probably tough,

but it can be. They were partakes. I'm going to hang out with about 16 of my favorite cop buddies this week. Is that right? Yeah, there's a gala going on. Ask them.

I will ask them on your behalf, Sammy. I think you're... I think you need a permit, but I'll look into it. You're going to ruin it for everyone. No, no, no, no, no. These guys were drinking just pop. Yeah, we're having a couple of root beers. Yes, root beers. That's what I said.

You know, root beers in the parking lot. A couple of mugs. Well, listen, you could have golfed today and made up for your lack of activity. Today is golfable. Tomorrow is golfable. And Thursday is golfable in the city of Toronto. It's really supposed to be. It's supposed to be 11 and sunny tomorrow, 12 and sunny on Thursday.

What a time of year. Beautiful. All right, Tom. Now, I take it there's a few people that didn't really understand, basically, where I was coming across because you guys were just licking your chops. You wanted to revisit my stance a little bit on Saturday night and the toughness that we saw to the Toronto Maple Leafs and you guys came in here like you know a couple of school boys with a playboy magazine right well so happy right

I think it's great when people pay attention to our show I do that's great I just was surprised at the blowback we're not surprised but I would say you've had a lot of takes in this show that have been controversial, but I think that might have been one of the more controversial ones. People were pissed, Kippy. At what? You were saying that he shouldn't have fought. I'm not saying that he shouldn't have fought.

Other people should have fought instead of him. I'm just saying that if there's one thing, if there's one glaring omission from the start of the season up until Saturday night, it was this Leaf lack of toughness. Would you agree with that? It's been a major disappointment. By the way, I was mad because everyone was like, this show. And I was like, two of us were against Kip on this.

For me, it's been a major disappointment yes i agreed the lack of toughness i thought after the yeah marshand incident yeah what you had to say was potentially one of the best things you've ever said in this show i told you that uh i get that you have to start somewhere. Me, I just would have liked it not to have been a 40-year-old defenseman who the Leafs have overtaxed time and time again. And you know how I felt with Giordano the moment they traded for him, that he's not a top four. He's not a guy that can play like he did in the height of Calgary. But if you use him properly, there's something there for sure. And Saturday night, I'm watching Giordano now play every game.

I see his minutes crawling back to 19-20 on average. Yeah. And he's the first guy to go in there and fight. That's not the guy I want. But that's what fans see is a guy who came here, takes minimum, pours his heart out. Everyone says there's not enough team toughness.

He presents team toughness. He is instrumental in getting things going for them. And instead of coming in here and going, finally, someone did it. Someone's willing to. He's not about the money. He's about the team. And instead of doing that, we went boom.

No, I'm big picture stuff. I'm beyond Saturday night. I'm going big picture. He plays on the team. He is eligible to drop the gloves. That is allowed. And as I told you last year, be prepared for the end of the year when this guy looks slow as molasses

because you've played him all 75, 80 games and you asked him to go play 17, 18 minutes and I'm going to say, hey, Sammy, I know they're out of the first round, but what about that Saturday in November where you came and you just felt great for five minutes? It's such a separate conversation than should Gio have been in that fight or not.

It's a conversation about, are the Leafs misusing Giordano? A hundred percent, I'm here for that one. I went to that conversation. Yeah, and I think we skipped over the part where the man himself. No, I went with, you know, the game that happened the night before.

I can't do that in conversations. You can't conversation? I can't go for 30. You're in real trouble. You can't conversation? I can't go for 30. We're in real trouble. I can't just, I can't go. How are we on TV? I can't focus on just 30 seconds. I look at the big picture.

Maybe that's why we get along or don't get along at times. I'll read the pages. You look at the big book. Right. We'll do the. Yes. But yeah, I think he'll probably be slow and as molasses, regardless of if he fights or not.

Well, fair enough, Tim. No, I don't think so. No. They can manage him all they want, Kip. No. He's getting up there. To your point, 12, 14 minutes, he's a different player, Sammy. Oh, that's for sure, but there's just no way they can.

You just told me he's still the same player at whatever. Well, I wasn't aware of that number. Like, if you're playing anybody 12, 14, they're going to be better. But, like, they don't have the... What do you think I'm talking about all this time, Sammy? Well, I think about the big picture versus the small picture, where the fight...

I don't know what the bearing the fight has on him being slow in the playoffs. He may be slow in the playoffs, but they're playing him 20 minutes a night. It's not having anything to do with the fight. That's what we were getting at. I would agree that those are separate issues. But I still think that there's merit there,

that, yeah, like, when Timmons is back, does it look like this? Or when, segue time, they acquire, say, Zdorov or Tanev or potentially move off a guy, I don't know, like Brody. Could there be the opportunity for him to get the minutes you're talking about? To be the sixth guy who missed some nights. There's no question that even at a training camp that Brad Tree living knew that this defense wasn't and isn't good enough right now to truly compete. And trust me, he is out there every day knocking on doors.

And for sure, Calgary would be one of those doors. Do I think Calgary is ready to do anything just yet? You hear from some people, they think so. I don't believe that there's a deal to be made, but does a loss against Detroit Friday afternoon here or Sunday change things? Well, I don't think they're going to do anything while they're in Sweden, are they? Oh, they can do anything anywhere.

Yeah, that's been a weird detail here, the whole Sweden thing. Like, I guess they could still make a trade. We'll see you when we're back. I don't know. I don't know. Why would you say that it wouldn't be business as usual? They got cell phones over there. Sure.

I don't know. I just mean like, you know. Stuffing meatballs down his throat all day. They got cell phones over there. Sure. I don't know. I just mean like, you know. Stuffing meatballs down his throat all day. I'm just saying that if you fly a guy over there, that's potentially going to be part of a trade. If you're taking somebody off your roster, which you have to do with the money,

it might be a big ass to fly him over there. Like, actually, you're not going to play anything. You're going to fly back. Right. Well, it was our boy Dangle, right? Stan Steve Dangle show. He said something like he had heard that there was a deal in place. Yeah, they were alluding to that. Yeah. That Zdorov could be coming here and potentially Brody going. dangle right Stan Steele dangle show he said something like he had heard that there was a deal in place yeah they were they were alluding

to that yeah that Zdorov could be coming here and potentially Brody going there's some well there's some well it's you got to understand that that there's money in and

money out that's the only way deals like this work really would be surprising to me you know like I I can see all right they want to unload Klingberg it's not working they need to

make money work but like you don't have that many reliable guys to eat minutes for you, and Brody has been that. Yeah, but if you replace Brody with, say, a right-handed Tanov, that's money in, money out. And the Leafs would gain because Brody makes probably what half a million dollars more than, than the tan of, but that's just replaced.

The minutes are, are filled. Brody's minutes are filled with a right-handed shot. I think the Leafs would probably welcome that. I mean, but what does Calgary want Brody for right? Other than a favor, you have to give them something else,

right? Yes. Yeah. That's yes. It's just not one up, one up here. You're not much worse as a team if you do that, right other than a favor you have to give them something else right yes yeah that's yes it's just not one up one up here you're not much worse as a team if you do that but it would be something imagine tree living would first tried to trade him for cadre brody when he was in calgary right tried to trade brody and then let him walk as ufa comes here and immediately trades him like he

really doesn't like brody if that's the case uh there was some rumblings about Brody at training camp if you recall Scranton beat it Cervelli was had put out something that like yeah the shocking guy to be traded from the from the Leafs was he had mentioned they're not re-upping him so I think the feeling is if you're gonna if try to upgrade in any way, shape, or form, you've got to unload contracts. Now, who's going to take Klimberg's 4.1? That might cost you a first rounder right now. I understand that you'd have to attach something first to get rid of Kling.

What did Carolina get for Marlowe? Where do you think Marlowe's game was at that point? Well, Marlowe was making six and a half and wasn't very useful. Klingberg might be salvageable. I couldn't even say salvageable. They don't have any second rounders left. So like, they're going to want something to take them just off their hands. You know, for me, that's like me, that's a non-starter.

No one's, like, volunteering, helping the Leafs. No, definitely not. What's in it for me? You don't think it would be a little bit different, maybe, with Trill Living, the guy that everyone loves and charges, instead of Dubas, where they were all claiming as guys just to spite him? That remains to be seen, for sure. I don't know.

I just, to me, trading Brody, you better be pretty sure that your defense him that remains to be seen for sure i don't know i just to me trading brody you better be pretty sure that your defense is still going to be good yeah because he's an incredibly important guy to them at this point he hasn't hit high notes this year he is supposed to anchor family issues too going behind the scenes so yeah it's hard to tell you know sometimes a guy's head can not be in a great space over the start of the season. Yep. And he is there to defend.

He's supposed to make Morgan Riley better. If you have a guy like Tanev, I know I'm dying, sorry. Yeah, something like that. You could see that swap making sense because it doesn't really change your personnel all that much. You should talk about Sweden? Well, I don't know. I'm just pushing back a little bit on Brody.

I guess maybe it's just relative to what else they have. I thought he was pretty good this year. I thought he was a little bit shaky at the start, but him and Riley have been pretty much their only guys on the team. Zdorov, I don't know if he's better, per se. Like, does he look bigger? He's different. Can he be a little meaner?

But Zdorov might be a good five on a very good team. But, Kip, I do think the Leafs would love to have some guys with a little bit of, I don't know edge you know like Brody is not a guy with edge right he is never going to raise his voice get hot under the collar like show emotion it's quite remarkable for a guy that was a big free agent signing that came here played on the top pair made five million dollars how little he's taught little he's been tossed about really good for the money he's been talked about. He's been really good for the money. He's been a good leaf.

But I think that if you're looking at this team and you want to change its personality, you could say, what if we had someone who cross-checked someone once in a while? Or what if we had just a different type of player rather than trying to be different? Teams are calling Calgary right now. And I'm telling you,

Zdorov is low on the totem pole of teams being attracted to him. It is Hannafin. Hannafin. It's Tanev. And this guy is the fifth defenseman on Calgary. Yeah, he's used it. On a team that isn't going to make the playoffs. He is used it. On a team that isn't going to make the playoffs. He is the fifth.

So I don't know if some teams might not even want to give up a third for him. I mean, they're Wieger, Hannafin, Rasmus Andersen, Chris Tanev. And his minutes are... Yeah, behind those guys. I mean, I really like the guys I just named. Rasmus Andersen is one of my favorite players to watch. How about millstein saying he's the best d-man on that that was a bit aggressive bit of a stretch there but i i guess what i'm getting at here is i'd be very worried about the least decor if it's just brody out the door of it you're right because brody is like justin

hall i agree with that that's not what i wrote he's like justin hall in that you don't think about him but he takes care of something you don't want to have to think about. Just defending. Just think about the rest of the league now who's clamoring for defensemen, hearing our conversation. I would think there'd be a lot of teams going, I'll take Brody. Yeah, 5 mil Brody, definitely. Every team wants defensemen.

Eat a little bit of it. If I can get him for four, and a half i'm not a bad pickup for a guy that could in a pinch play 20 minutes a night and he does yeah with some consistency so yeah i get your point that it would be you know if he's out you better be sure it's tanf back and you can trust tanf's healthy and all that. But like we said, you got to get some money out. And that's where it gets a little tricky. Even if you thought you could put a deal together for a draft pick in Robertson or if you want to go higher end.

And this is where I think Minton comes into play. If you're trying to attract now a legitimate top four which i don't have the door off in right now then that's the upgrade is that you start pushing fraser minton as a guy that looks sounds and feels since day one of training camp like a first rounder here's uh yeah here's eric francis says as the hockey world tries to piece together various pieces that could make at least for a flames defenseman possible consider the fact the toronto farmhand nick abruzzese was matt coronado's setup man at harvard two seasons ago uh leaf's fourth rounder was just named ahl player of the week with two goals and five assists in three games. So Abruzzese maybe goes to Calgary as some sort of secondary.

Here have this guy piece as well. Just doesn't solve the math. It actually fixes nothing. But it's a guy they can have. It does nothing. Yeah. I think he was just named, if I'm not mistaken, I think he was maybe the player of the week.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, player of the week. Seven points in three games. There you go. Yeah. So now he's still high. So what's the good word out of Stockholm, Sammy?

Did you get us some clips? Yeah, they arrived. What's new and exciting in Sweden? They arrived. Good. William Nylander was asked. I was trying to cut some clips of William Nylander, but boy, they just couldn't do that to our audience.

It's just a little low-key. Bill, well, they're all a lot of travel. Short on words? Short on words, but they basically pulled it out of him that I think he's got 90 to 100 tickets that he's bought for the two games he's there, including his grandma. Let's get the calculator out. His grandma who's never seen him play in an NHL game.

Do we know? Which is cool. Do we get a ticket price over there? I don't know how to look that up all right 90 times let's say it's 200 bucks he's looking at 18,000 I should have been able to do that I know leave me alone 18,000 for Willie I don't I I think it's uh way more expensive than that. That's my first thought. Yeah. So maybe he's looking at 25 grand. Yeah, 200 euro maybe. Maybe 200 euro. Maybe this whole thing comes out to 30 grand for Willie. And Willie's going, I'm going to get it back on my next contract.

I'm going to build that into my next deal. I think to go see an average game over there is probably like 70 euros. Yeah, yesterday when it came up, it was 80 euro for a game. So this is at least 200 euro for a game, I would imagine. But he'll be fine. You think he'll get by? I think he'll be fine.

Yeah. Well, if not, he's got a couple more dollars coming. Judging on the next contract. Yeah, it should be good. All right, Sam. They got a lot of different, I'm just looking at this.

I'm now on a Swedish website and it's not in English, so I'm having a tough go here, but there's a lot of different. I'm just looking at this. I'm now on a Swedish website, and it's not in English, so I'm having a tough go here. But there's a lot of different options. VIP options. Hang Kavar. Hang in there. Yeah, it's basically sold out here. But I'm looking at it.

Yeah, there's one ticket available, and it's, I don't know what to say. Read the numbers. Well, I don't know. Carry the one. 219,000, or maybe that's... The comma is a period there. Oh, go. With numbers.

It's just 219. You're not joking there. Like, that's... I don't know. When it comes to money, they use a comma. Okay, so it's $2,195 SEK. Swedish kroner. Oh, I see.

Is that a thing? Yes. Now I have no idea. So it'ser. Is that a thing? Yes. Now I have no idea. So it's a lot. Okay. For one ticket. So he's dishing it out. This has been another segment of.

Sam is dumb. Born and Sam exposed their lack of worldliness and poor math skills. Okay. In about 10 minutes, we got Claude Julien, one of the winningest coaches in NHL history. He's going to join us and maybe we'll get a sense on the challenges for Sheldon Keefe in Sweden. Yeah. Trying to get the guys to focus. Sounds like they had minimal sleep on the plane, he said.

The guys only slept three, four hours. Wasn't easy. All right, let's go to Sheldon Keefe for Kippers Clippers, number one on practice. I can't do much today. Today is just really about kind of fire the engines a little bit just to kind of keep them awake through the day. That's really it.

We're trying to keep them away from the hotel and keep them away from being able to nap or have the body shut down just because tonight's sleep really is vital to set us up for the week. So to, to get the bed at a decent time and be able to sleep through the night really is the priority for the day. The skate was just, like I said,

just about kind of firing the engines and getting a sweat. He looked like he had just been on a plane. He looked all wiped. Sheldon did? Sheldon, yeah. He looked a little wiped. Sheldon did? Sheldon, yeah. He looked a little wiped. It is hilarious, though, that they're like, we're just trying to keep the boys away from the hotel

because they know if they allow them in their room, it's night-night city. But these guys like to nap anyway. Oh, yeah. So just to quickly clean up our Swedish Corona conversation, it is $283 for one of those tickets. There's one ticket available in the rink, and it's $283. All right. So I There's one ticket available in the rink, and it's $283.

All right. So I'm assuming, and that's a lower bowl ticket. I don't know what the, it's an old barn there. I don't know how much it would be, but it's a lot. Willie's in 30K one way or another. Yeah, he'll be fine. He'll be fine. Yeah.

So there you go. So I want to play this clip from Sheldon about what he's most excited about for Sweden. And I just really am excited to see you guys react. So if we could hear her clip two for Keith, some possible drops. The moment I hear museum, I'm cutting it off. Some possible drops in this clip. So if you could fire that clip for me, Derek. Just looking around and, you know, moving around and all that kind of stuff.

Trying to see as much as I can. But at the same time, I'm just excited to see an old building like this and just different culture and all that kind of stuff, even the hotel and the lunch we had today. We had a quick little pit stop at the hotel, not in the rooms, but just to get lunch and then come here. But just trying to experience what I can. And also I'm excited about, you know, I coach a lot of European players and never, you know, I've never been able to experience, you know,

what life is like for them. So it's been fun to talk with them and try to give them, for them to give me a few tips perhaps on where I should or shouldn't go and spend my time and all that kind of stuff. So I'm just trying to take it all in like anybody else. What are you excited for? Moving around.

Walking around. Moving around. You know, it reminds me of the Pierre Dorian. Moving around and all that kind of stuff. Answer when they said, what's your favorite thing about your team or the best part about your team? And he's like, we're a team. That's one of my favorite clips.

I was like, what? When he got let go, that clip circulated and I had to text DA about it because he was the one sitting beside him. He asked the question. He's like, oh, we're a team. Favorite part is just being ambulatory. He made it a point to make sure that everybody knows that i'm keeping the team away from the hotel yeah it's like the sleep doctor out there is gonna fine him like thousand dollars if i see anybody be some going into their room 9 30 bedtimes tonight

yeah i mean i'm sure well we saw a picture of them all at the Borea movie, right? So we did see, it was Willie, Lilligren, Lagason, JT, and... Jarnkrok. Jarnkrok. No Klingberg, though, in the photo that I saw. Maybe he was there, too. So I guess, you know, Tavares gets included in that. Tremendous honor to see this movie with you guys. You do a good Tavares.

Thank you. It's a tremendous honor. Obviously,remendous honor to see this movie with you guys. You do a good Tavares. Thank you. It's a tremendous honor. Obviously, I'm so excited to see this movie. Is that why we don't have any JT? That's why he never comes on our show because Sam can do it. I listen to him every day and there's just never anything. It's remarkable. He talks to media every day and he never says one thing of note.

Does the right thing every time. That's what you want from your captain, right? It's the guy who does it. What is your one? You want the guy to just does it the right way all the time. Obviously, it's a tremendous honor. A little bit of emotion might come in handy every once in a while, too. Yeah.

JB. Yeah, well, you know what to tell you there. Okay, let's see if he took any of Willie's recommendations. We'll start with Keefe on that. Willie's the guy I've talked to the most about it. He's just, as you can imagine, Willie's pretty chill. He just, you know, kind of, you know, walk around and take in the sights. That was really all that he had to offer.

But it sounds like Willie himself has got a pretty full plate while we're here. So I'm sure he's excited to be here. But knowing Willie, he likes to keep the focus on the hockey. So he'll get his obligations out of the way and all that. And I know all our Swedish guys especially would be excited to play on the weekend. So Willie's recommendations were to walk around again. Move around. Wow.

He's got to be, like, at the peak of, like, willingness. Oh, yeah. Right now. The last thing Willie wants. He's going back as another level star. Top 10, 15 guy in the league right now. I mean, among the four teams, outside of maybe Daniel Alfredson going back as an executive for Ottawa,

he is the biggest name right now. Yeah, Willie's got a 15-game point streak going right now. Raymond? No, it's not. Detroit? Lucas Raymond. Lucas, sorry. Mason. That's a little

back in my broadcasting early days. But Lucas Raymond is going to be a big name for Detroit for a lot of years, but not in the Willie wheelhouse right now. I'm sure Willie, who is, like you said, the

number one man in demand and his coach comes up to him hey willie what do you think i should i don't know just look around what do i look like a tour guide how do you google it oh boys what do you think of those clips i knew knew you'd love them. Really? We got a couple more. Do you really want to hear them? Wow. I kind of do at this point. Is there any real hockey stuff in this? Well, point streak's pretty good.

Pretty chill. Let's hear his point streak comment. Yeah, perfect. Clip four. I mean, the point streak is one thing. You know, sometimes there's some luck involved in these point streaks and such. You know, whether the streak continues or whatever it is, that's not the point. Sometimes there's some luck involved in these point streaks and such. Whether the streak continues or whatever it is, that's not the point.

He's just played terrific hockey. He's really been a catalyst for us offensively. His effort away from the puck defensively has really matched the effort that he's putting forth on offense. So to me, he just looks like he's really focused on having a great season, which is building upon last season i thought he took a big step in his in his overall game last season and he's taking another one here this year just i guess maturity or i i we all can do the link here yeah we we can do the link we understand that there's money basically dominant now but he's a big man you know like i think there is an element where he's just so fast and so strong that there's money basically dominant now but he's a big man you know like i think there

is an element where he's just so fast and so strong that it's probably easier to i don't think he'll ever have that snarliness of uh i know of a pasternak he definitely will not but he does he can't portray uh uh i don't know not not the force because that guy will run you over i'm not sure willie will run you over but he is a strong man now yeah i would imagine there's a level of frustration defending him because you can't seem to get through to him we saw like leon dry sidle gets frustrated at times right someone get in his head he took a fine the other day cross checks a guy in the knees yeah you know like will, like, Willie's just... Pretty chill.

Kind of pretty chill. That's a good draw for Willie. He's kind of above the fray sometimes. You could even say he's just moving around out there. He's just moving around. That's what he does. Moving around and all that kind of stuff. He's going to get paid a lot of money to never...

Move around. Do you think, like, he'll ever move himself into a true leader kind of guy? Like Pasternak's a leader on the Boston Bruins. JT Miller is a leader on Vancouver. And they have that. And Leon in Edmonton, and they all have that short fuse at times. Will that keep Willie away from... When you think of Willie,

could he ever put himself in a position, I'm not just talking about the Leafs, or even if he signs somewhere else, could Willie ever put himself in a position where he is the leader, the guy that you build around? I know you know the answer in terms of he's closer than i ever thought even at this point i would see guys who lead with their performance and i think if you

look back at the florida series you know he was their guy that was going when no one else was and i would say that's its own form of leadership but i don't think he's ever going to be standing up in front of the room and you know raw raw cheer type of guy but if he if if he has a few nights off you'll shrug it off because that's just willy and others may not get that same leeway i would say yeah he's uh he's a unique individual yeah let's take a break okay we got uh claude julian coming up after the break and we'll get into more on coaching and what his thoughts are of on this early season, including what's going on in Edmonton.

Close Julian after the break, you're watching and listening to real Kipper and born. Covering the Raptors in depth, like no one else. The Raptor show with will lose subscribe and download the show on apple spotify or wherever you get your podcasts so All right. As we mentioned before the break, we're going to welcome in Claude Julian, 15th winningest coach in NHL history with 6-6-7.

And they were all really easy. Right, Claude? How are you? Good, good, Kimber. How are you doing? I'm good. Where do we find you these days? I'm in Ottawa.

It's not too hard to follow that storyline on a daily basis, I bet. No, it's not. I've been here the last couple of years. We moved back to Ottawa. Family's all here. So I've been able to keep an eye on the Senators. Obviously, a close eye on them and seeing them go through those ups and downs and obviously a lot of the adversity they've been going through so far this year. So, Claude, we've got the Ottawa Senators and the Toronto Maple Leafs over in Stockholm. When it comes to these type of games and even outdoor games,

through your experience, when there are some distractions that can alter the mindset of a hockey club? What do you do as a head coach to make sure those distractions are minimal? Well, Kipper, ironically enough, I think, and if you look back at the, I guess, the records of teams that went to Europe, remember when it used to go at the beginning of the year, a lot of those teams came back and ended up winning Stanley Cups, which we, Boston, were one of those teams as well.

It actually, to me, it actually really helped the team bonding, team building kind of thing. And I thought it was really beneficial for us anyways as a team. And obviously with the other teams as well, I think it was really beneficial for us anyways as a team and obviously with the other teams as well. I think it was L.A. that won as well and Chicago if I'm correct. But anyways, it worked out well for us. So I'm suspecting right now for the Leafs and for the Senators who are obviously expecting more out of themselves,

this may be a good situation for them to go over there and maybe get away from all distractions that are surrounding them right now and maybe just focus on hockey and then maybe, again, get closer as a team and get the results they're looking for. Claude, the whole league is obviously chasing getting the results they're looking for,

and I wanted to get your thoughts on what coaches are going through when their teams are struggling a little bit jay woodcroft just gotta let go as you know um and you know i'm not gonna ask you if you think that was necessarily fair or not but in your experience you know how much of it is based on having lost a room in air quotes versus just bad goaltending or bad luck? Like, how does it come to pass that good coaches suddenly, you know, end up on the chopping block and losing their jobs? Well, you know, again, in all honesty, I think we realize that's part of our job and it may happen.

And, you know, when you ask every coach, he's going to tell you it wasn't a fair firing and we're all going to stick up for ourselves. But at the end of the day, there's always reasons. And I've always said that I don't know of a general manager who's ever made those decisions for the wrong reasons. And what I mean by that is they really feel that it's best for the team. So I guess as a coach, whether you accept it or agree with it, you end up leaving knowing that it wasn't personal.

And I think in Jay's case, when you look at his winning record there with Edmonton, it's even harder to understand. But, you know, like I watched some of the games and, you know, when you're playing catch-up hockey, you know, night in, night out, eventually I think you lose the motivation of the players. And that's kind of what I saw from Edmonton. It was like, you know, you get tired of trying to play catch-up hockey. And if anything, their game was going in the wrong direction. And I, you know, I can't speak for Ken Holland, but was he looking for something to give them some life again and hopefully get them back on track?

I think everybody knows, and I'm sure the people inside and the people involved as well know their goaltending has been up to par yet and needs to be better if they're going to win some hockey games. I don't think that's a big secret. But at the same time, the games I saw, I thought defensively there was a lot of puck watching versus awareness of where the players were in their own end. And I think that really hurt them a lot as well. So you can put the blame on the goaltenders, but I think as a whole, and then some of the players mentioned it, it's on them and not necessarily on the goaltenders but i think as a whole and then some of the players mentioned that it's on them and not necessarily on the coach we're talking to claude julian who's coached uh 1275 games 667 wins some of those 1200 games claude came with the transition of no cap to a salary cap.

And I'm just wondering now, the added pressure to change coaches as quickly as we saw in Edmonton. Can you ever recall coaches feeling the heat 12, 14 games into the regular season like we just witnessed in Edmonton? And is it because it's the one change we can make that is an easy thing to do, unlike moving a contract in or out?

Well, I think, you know, I kind of agree with your comment there. There's no doubt that there's a lot of pressure to do something with the situation. But I think, Kipper, last time we had talked, we had talked about the fact that, you know, with 32 teams and only 16 making the playoffs, it's a lot of pressure on not just the coaches, but the GMs as well. And, you know, owners expect results. They pay big money for these teams and uh obviously the uh the money then they make in the playoffs is important to them just

just as much as it is in a regular season so i think right there and then there's a lot of pressure and there's a lot of pressure to uh i guess make moves as you mentioned uh when things don't go well quicker quicker than what it used to be. And you're right. I mean, that's a quick – I guess that's a quick change to make when, again, we mentioned earlier, this is a coach that's had the best winning record in the Oilers' history. And 14 games in, 15 games in, he's out and, again,

took them through a lot of playoff series in the two years he's been there. So he's got a lot of positives on his side and yet wasn't able to keep his job. Claude, you have taken over a team, you know, partway through a season, I believe the Montreal Canadiens at least once. What is that experience like as a new coach taking over the team? What are some of the challenges that you have to, hurdles do you have to get over to have success? Well, the one thing is, you know,

a lot of times you'll go in there and you say, I think I know what I have to fix, but how much time do I have to fix it? Because as you know, once the season starts, there's not a lot of practices, there's travel, there's, you know, the mandatory days off. And at the same time, you know, you're dealing with making sure the players get the proper rest and all that kind of stuff.

So it's not easy to make those adjustments in season. And I think the best approach, and I'm saying that, I guess, from a little bit of experience, not only once, but twice I went into Montreal halfway through a season, is that you can only do a little bit at a time. And, you know, while you're doing that, you just hope that the players, because of the change, have got some sort of motivation that they're going to go out there, play hard, and give you a chance at least to win some games as you're making those adjustments. So that's the best you can do because you can't go in there all of a sudden. And especially if, you know, you're totally different than the last coach and say,

I want to change the forecheck, I want to change the neutral zone, and the way we play D zone. There's no way in the world you've got to accept the fact that you may have to live with some of the things that they've been doing for, whether it's a couple of years now in Jay's situation, and say, well, i'm just going to tweak things here and there and if we're going to make major changes maybe we have to wait till next year's training camp quote 10 years in the boston bruins which included two stanley cup finals of

course one stanley cup and uh this is the year they lose patrice Bergeron and David Krejci. And this is also the year they're supposed to not start the season 11-1-2 because of it. So surprised or not surprised with two players that have meant near and dear to your heart? Well, Kipper, I think, first of all, I think it's the second year they've been, they were supposed to struggle at the beginning of the year. But the one thing I'm going to tell you about Boston,

and it's been like that for years now, is that they have such a good structure. And it just seems that whoever they bring in there just buys into the philosophy and the structure that the team wants. And because of that, they're able to continue to have success. Again, you know, who's your best player? Your goaltenders. And both of them have played well, so that certainly helps. But defensively, they're big, they're strong,

they protect around the net area and kill a lot of plays, you know, with their long sticks. But the players come back, they respect the system. And then, you know, know right now it's not like they're blowing anybody out because they have lost some key players as you mentioned bird drones crutches and others even taylor hall and then bertuzzi who was playing well with them last year when he got there they've lost a lot of uh firepower but now instead of winning maybe with a lot more scoring than they had last year they're

winning those tight games claude you're living in ontario again and you're joining us during our leafs hour i'm sure you've been force-fed leafs content over the past couple years you have an idea what's going on here in toronto uh what's your assessment of this year's iteration of the toronto maple leafs well that's you know it's really not an easy question to answer. No, I know. When I look at them, you know, you see a lot of good things from them, and then you see other times where it's, hey, you know, I would expect them to be a little bit better.

And as we all know, everybody has their reasons. Everybody seems to know why they're struggling and what changes they should make and everything else. But, you know, I think you've got to give them a little bit more time. As you guys mentioned earlier, you know, there's a lot of changes that are being made early in the season. I just use the example of Max Domi. And, you know, I was watching him at the beginning of the year

and having had Max for a couple of years, I know Max is one of those players that really thrives on confidence. And if he knows you have confidence in him, if he knows you have trust in him, he's going to play a lot better. And I think he was trying to feel his way into the team earlier on. And you, again, being a local boy and been around Toronto and his dad and everything else, I think he must have felt a little bit of pressure

of doing so well right off the bat. But now you're starting to see, you know, Max do the right things. And when I say do the right things, it's Max really had a good year with us in Montreal because not only was he skilled, but he was taking pucks to the net and he was going in those areas. And when Max is good, that's what he does.

He really does that well. And if Max stays on the perimeter, that's where you kind of lose the Max that you know can be as good as he can. And what I've seen lately, and when you've seen him you know produce now he's taking pucks in the net he's going to the net he's skating he's playing with a lot more confidence so i think in his case uh you know it's just a matter of time and hopefully

he can stay on that uh on that trajectory but uh same thing i mean with bertuzzi uh i don't know if it was just because he was a good fit in Boston, but he was such a good player for them. I actually thought when Toronto signed him that that was a good signing because, again, he's the guy that goes to gritty areas, he'll go to front of net, and I think the Leafs needed that kind of player. Right now, I don't think he's found his game yet,

but once he does i think the fans will appreciate him more claude the term they used just moments ago uh structure and we we tend to hear it now more than ever and the leafs much like edmonton earlier in this season were uh you know accused of not having great structure and And as a head coach, when you know maybe that there's a vibe out there, would a coach automatically know that if there is a lack of structure, that it has a lot to do with either lack of effort, lack of focus, lack of talent, or not getting a save? Is it clear to you as a coach behind an NHL bench why it doesn't appear to be as structured as, say, other teams?

It does, Kipper. And, you know, that question really shows that you've played the game for quite a while and know what's going on. But, you know, the biggest thing for me is that structure is one thing. And you can't put too much structure into a team where the guys are overthinking. What you want to do is clarify things so that the guys think less. And if they're doing the same thing all the time, structure means the other people that are surrounding them know exactly what they're doing and that's why a lot of times teams that have good structure are always in sync

and they seem to people seem to say my goodness you know they just seem to know where everybody is on the ice well that's what structure does but let's not confuse structure with you know leaving creativity to the players as well. To me, you know, you come back on the back check and you're coming into your D zone, this is where structure, you know, whatever it is, you say, listen, this is, once you cross the blue line, you haven't got your guy,

you got to find someone that you have to pick up. But once you get in the other end, in the offensive zone, you know, as much as you'd like to see guys going to the net, whoever has a puck and has got talent, you've got to give them the ability to use that talent and be creative. And I think that's the balance that I think I've seen in good teams where players respect the fact that they have to be structured in certain situations, but have the ability to be creative in others and for you throughout your career that's what you were kind of known safe to say that you are a coach that is from the net on out like if you don't have that defensive structure then your your first thought isn't out of how to outscore your mistakes, correct? Yeah, and, you know, Kipper, for me, when you play good defense, it wasn't that you were a defensive coach.

When you play good defense, it meant that you got the puck back quicker and was able to play on offense. And that's what we had to sell the guys. And I remember my first year in Boston, when I got there, you know, the Mark Savards with 96 points and Patrice Bergeron with, I don't know, 70, 80 points or whatever it was, but they're all high minus players. And at the end of the day, that's why they didn't make the playoffs. So, you know,

when I was able to sell them a little bit more of a defensive structure and really bring that part of your game to make it as important as the offensive type of game if you look at the stats and the following year Mark Savard still had lots of points I think it might have been in the 80s but at the same time he was a plus player and played in the playoffs for the first time in his life at the age of 31 so you know those kind of things i think is just it's it's not well received when people think coaches are defensive minded the defensive mind in my book anyways is let's kill the play quickly so we can get the puck back and go on offense because i'm all about offense as much as anybody else okay one more because i found that i find this fascinating and i want to squeeze one more

in for you but i think it's got to be quick because we're running out of time and that is that you mentioned it twice you had to sell you had to sell a program as a strategy is it harder and harder now whether you got kids who have grown up with skills coaches and i coughed up a pizza up the middle of the ice i know not only did i risk not playing the rest of the game or being a healthy scratch the next game being sent to the minors these kids today they go and no man no problem i'll get it next shift i mean is it a harder sell today to these kids what you're talking about well hey every generation changes right kipper from the day we played to now and uh and i've always said that as a coach it's so important that you adapt otherwise

you're not going to survive and and to answer your question is is yes it's a little harder to sell you know we talk about sense of entitlement sometimes that sets in and what you got to do is not worry about the sense of entitlement but you have to worry more about how am i going to sell it to this player because a lot of it is individual now more than it is group. And so how are you going to get this guy to buy in? And it's very possible. And it's there because you see it on a lot of teams that have success. You look at Conor Bedard, who's having a great rookie season,

but he'll be the first one to say, I still have a lot to learn. And with that attitude and knowing Luke Richardson so well, Luke is so good with players individually and collectively, I'm sure that we're going to see him have a lot of success with Luke as a main coach because uh as a player he seems to get it and he's got the right coach for him as well claude fantastic stuff we really appreciate your feedback today thanks for doing this thanks for having me guys thanks claude oh julian that was great and yeah he's all about structure his whole. And sometimes he did get labeled as, oh, you know,

this guy wants to win every game 2-1 and clog everything up the middle. And it's unwatchable. Winning's never unwatchable. Yeah. And, you know, he's saying it's about getting the puck back and playing on offense and adapting to the kids and a lot of stuff. You know, I don't think Claude Julien's done coaching in the NHL. He's 63 years old.

There's older guys than him in the league. It was, do you go to another young, inexperienced coach? Claude Julian wouldn't have been the worst choice to buckle down a few things in Edmonton. No, fair enough. We'll see if Chris Knobloch can do it. Ask him if you've got a call. Turn it down.

Where have you been for the last 20 minutes? Why don't you just jump in there and ask him? You're right here. My name's on the show. I'm not one of the hosts, boys. You're supposed to call me that. Don't you forget it. Don't you forget it, Sammy.

I love it. All right, we're going to take a quick break. When we come back, Mike Kelly, hockey analytics specialist, is going to give us some numbers to crunch. Useful or useless? Useful, useful, useful. Mike Kelly after the break. Another hour of Real Kipper and Bourne coming up.