Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Shaking Up the Slumping Top Six

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee get set for the Toronto Maple Leafs' matchup against the Washington Capitals. They discuss the Leafs' decision to start Dennis Hildeby, Easton Cowan's move up to the second line, Scott Laughton's usage and John Tavares' scoring slump. Then, they get into Matias Maccelli's extended stay in the press box and when he might get a chance back in the lineup. Later, Nick, Justin and Sam dip into the Midweek Mailbag to answer your questions!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Game day on the real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live and in color, Sportsette 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus, always available on Spotify, Apple Podcast, and YouTube. When you cannot catch us live, Nick Kiprio's, Justin Bourne, our very own semi-McKee. Excited about the game tonight? Derek Brande. Oh, sorry.

Jake the Snake Shultz. And yes, I'm excited about the game tonight because I get to work with you. Yay. Who's now turned into a season veteran. You know, getting some reps. Got any. Any pointers for me tonight?

Yeah. No, but be careful. Be careful. All right. What are you? I'm always careful. Well, we're going to talk about the Leafs, and this is a very sensitive time here.

There's some exposed nerves, that's all I'm saying. That's right. Absolutely. And it's the Maple Leafs and the Capitals on SportsNet, Ontario, with yours truly and Borno on the panel. Borno. According to carbs. Carbs.

My boy, Carbs. Borno. Hey. Yeah, I like Borno. I'm going Borno. Are the Leafs going to get, Are the Leafs going to go heavy on the carbs tonight? All right.

No, you guys won't be. Oh, boy. All right, all right, all right. Let's get this thing on track. Let's get her going. Let's get her going. The Toronto Maple Leafs in the nation's capital. Of course, USA's nation capital.

Fared pretty well last time they were there, with the exception of not being able to close out a lead. It was the opposite of the last. opposite of last game yeah where they they were leading two one going into the third and lost four two in regulation or three two in regulation i can't remember which there there is a sense that there's just a comfort zone for them i think on the road is there record better on the road is that what you're telling me i don't know about the record being better you're going to tell me in about two seconds whether that's true or not but i just i get the sense even off of uh the last road

trip where they went Columbus, Washington that, I don't know, they're just, maybe that us against the world mentality on the road, they just seemed a little bit more relaxed and not willing to. They're just never on the road. They played 20 home games to

12 away. They've barely played. That's going to catch up to them. Dad is going to catch up to them for sure. Their strength of schedule stuff is not pretty back half of the year. Hasn't been pretty for Carberry's team the last three games. They've given up 13 goals in three games, including, you know, taking it on the chin to Quinn Hughes' Minnesota

Wild. Is this a good time for the Leafs to be playing Washington or maybe a really bad one? Yeah, it's a concern. If you believe they're a good team and I think they're pretty good, they're probably not just going to be bad forever here. I think Carberry is a pretty good coach and, yeah, you're probably getting a pretty good capital team at home tonight. It depends.

Neander hasn't scored eight straight games, eh? It depends. Who's that? It depends which way you look at it. You could look at it as they're a. hungry team that's looking to get back on track home game against the Leafs coming in or you could look at it as they're not playing very well at all and they've been smoked in two straight games and it's a good time to see them so I don't know which if you want to take a positive perspective maybe you know

the Leafs coming off that character comeback victory against the Chicago backhugs on Tuesday you're dripping going into Thursday night in the nation's capital maybe it's just to build so much momentum. All right, let's get Craig Bruby's thoughts on our first Kipper's Clipper of the day on the matchup. Clip one. A lot of like the third period, you know. But, you know,

we came in here last time. We, you know, we had the lead going in the third period. I thought we played a pretty good game until that point and we got, we let them come back on us and get a couple goals in the third, but, you know, I think just getting to our game here right away, like coming out on our toes, skating, attacking,

You know, just playing to our identity, getting pucks deep right away and going to work on that D-Corps over there and forcing them into bad puck plays. You know, they're a very good rush team. They got, you know, they're very active D. So we're going to have to be really good off the rush here tonight, defending. A little later on in our Leaf Edition hour,

we got McKee's midweek mailbag. It's a day late because we had carbs on yesterday. So we went a little, a day late. Okay. I'm not sure I'm going to look forward to it, but... No, you don't like to know a bag? Like he said earlier, a few fans on egg shells, so I'm not really sure what's coming our way here. Not too bad.

Okay. I mean, only two or three trade matches. We'll catch up to that soon enough. But where do you want to start, J.B.? We got a little shuffle maybe with the lines. You want to start with the goalies, Hillbillie, the Hillbilly. The Hillbilly.

the hillbilly is starting tonight which that's surprising it is for me yeah I really thought that coming off a Tuesday Thursday

that would give Joe Wall enough time to go back to back I'm certainly in the belief that he should be playing two out of three games not three out of four

which would have set up wall on a Sunday versus Dallas. That's not the way it's shaping up, obviously with the Hilda Beast going tonight. So you're going to serve the Hilda Beast to the Dallas Stars on Sunday?

Is that what we're doing? You're not going Joseph Wall Saturday Sunday. Yeah. So that's what it's shaping up. You know what it also shapes up to me? Is that Joseph Wall felt okay coming off Chicago Tuesday night, but not great.

and if there was just a touch of anything... What was this injury? We believe a groin. We don't... We got to say we believe, or we speculate, or we think, because we're not getting any other information. So I'm going with groin until someone tells me otherwise.

Actually, we are new personal show policy is we'll pick an injury we think it is. And stick with it. And we'll just stick with it. it and force the team to reach out and be like guys that's what it is all right okay he's going his groin injury on that he came off of them we'll go to stolars next okay uh but in the meantime it's the only explanation i can come up with is that maybe they're just over cautious with a groin yeah but obviously it's good yeah i don't want to i totally disagree with this i totally

disagree with that. They overfed wool early when he came back was seven to eight starts. Yeah. Which I was all in favor of when they first were doing it and you're like, you know, he'll be mixed in that great start against the penguins on the Saturday night where he looked awesome and he kind of earned

some more trust. And I sat here and said they should have started him against Carolina. They didn't. And Pop goes to whatever dynamite, the knee or the groin or whatever we're calling it. And then he's gone for a week and a day. It's just you can't go back to the well you have to you he'll to be shown you enough i agree with that he's showing you enough i'm just

telling you i don't like it i don't like the fact that i think that the leaps need two out of three sure two out of three and you can win with hildaby they did it multiple times while wall was out but i think you can win better with wall than the beast for sure you're better with him in so i've got i've got Washington, Nashville, and Dallas. I wanted Wall to see two of the top three teams. And it's not. I think his point is that he doesn't like that they're this fragile and they have to do this.

Not that he doesn't like the decisions necessarily. Thank you. You know, it's like you don't like you're in this one. Okay, so we're arguing two different things. We are arguing. You don't like that you don't get to use your good players here. I agree. I agree with you that you can't take that chance

And you have to be, but it's just, we're not even at Christmas right now and we've got them wrapped around bubble wrap. So speculate then. Do you guys think that Wall went to him and said like maybe a day or it's a coaching decision or it's a trainer decision? Like how do you think they came to the decision to not go to him tonight? That's the question I have. I don't know the details of how it, I just feel like.

I'm asking for some speculation, baby. Let's speculate. He might have just said it's, It's still there. It's, I'm okay to play, and I'm, I'll find a way to manage through it. But I, I mean, if, if there's a chance that he just felt something, then no chance that he starts tonight. I agree.

I also think that his chances of playing on Saturday night just went from, oh, I don't know, whatever the percentage was, down a whole bunch. I think there's a chance that if he's not ready to go tonight after two days ago playing, playing good maybe something's lingering maybe god i hope you're wrong arthur actiumov on the road no he's at tomorrow at least right now god i hope you're so wrong but you know what i mean yes like because kip is 100% right this means that wool is like ah and if it's ah today there's no guarantee it's gonna be ah tomorrow do you want to let's listen to uh so this would maybe answer our question a little bit uh i think josh cloak asked them if they were gonna maybe do a little bit

like if this is a rotation potentially between these two guys. I'll play the clip there Derek clip two please. Do you foresee using Joseph and Denison kind of a tandem or are you waiting for one of them to really take it right now? No not necessarily I think just with Wolk coming

back off of injury playing that game you know we thought about him tonight again but I think it's important that we make sure that he's rested and ready to go for the next one all right. All right. That sounds more just like rest.

Let's just make sure. We thought about it tonight. Okay. Until he said, don't start me tonight. We thought about it. And then he said he wasn't able to play. The thought was,

we want our starter in tonight against a good team. And we thought that we should probably go to our backup in case he gets hurt again. We thought. Should we, like, when we're speaking injuries, do we need to do those disclaimers? Like, this is solely,

this has no reflection on Rogers' media at all. And this is just. The views of these three idiots do not reflect. by anyone outside the immediate room they're in. I don't know there's no one else in the room with us here. I'm supposed to be the guy who's like, no. We have no adult in the room. That's right.

That's right. Stolars, still no word. Any update thought? No, I guess. Well, no, no update, but like we know it's not a concussion because Craig Bruby said that. We know it's upper body because they, They've stated that already.

So it's the shoulder. If we're speculating, it's the shoulder. It's his back. I don't know. You're thinking of other arms? We're just going out. Arm, wrist? I don't know.

Perhaps they could get a two for one special with TAN of on the area maybe. Oh, no. Well, I'm just speculating. No, maybe neck maybe. An awful lot of. Yeah. He's been out. for almost six weeks now, guys.

Without returning to this. And we're just doing the process of elimination here, okay? It's, we've got to go back to, we think he might be okay. And we could see him that week to five weeks later. There's a sense that they're still looking for answers. Talking to people outside the organization. As I wrote for sportsnet.ca, that the concern around TAN of,

it's kind of feeling the same way to me for Stolars is that there's question marks. There's more questions than answers. And they're waiting, and it just seems like they're waiting. His knees, bone-on-bone, and his neck ear, whatever is not great. He's going to be like the tin man when he's, like, 40. He's going to need to oil. I saw Jonas Siegel wrote an article for the athletic today about

them not being forthcoming about injuries so our takes are pickers I know I do feel guilty that they must hate us because we 100% started this conversation last year we're just trying to talk with the team Sam and we can't I know and we don't know anyone's back you know they can eliminate all this talk of ours

just by telling us well not just us but everyone but I think we're beating a dead horse here but you know this doesn't happen in Tampa Bay when it comes to their best defenseman in franchise history with his elbow or Montreal Canadians just put out two statements on two players detailing what they got on injury and what they like I mean

it's allowed so anyways well yeah the horse has upper cardiac stillness from us flogging it here so let's move on let's move on call on the second line tonight boys don't me down to the fourth Eastern Cowan Yeah I'm electric

I'm okay with shuffling the deck here so and Max to me as I told you all day long is just this utility guy that can play different roles and if it's not going shuffle the deck

that's all that's all this happening here outside of not wanting to mess with Matthews and Neely lander right now yeah um yeah so cowen is is going to be on the on the second line it's funny like when when you also reward robertson and put them on the second nut line all you do is turn the second line into maybe not the second line yeah so i mean they're yeah it's robertson cow and joshua wah McMahon which has been good and then the fourth line is lorence lawton

and just put dolmy there is yeah so we've had this thing with lot and getting like 11 minutes last game and his overall time were you surprised to see that they shuffled and he didn't get any different? No, because they haven't done it all year. So, why are we going to do it now? Am I crazy here? Or is he got to be pissed off by now? Like, you traded a first for me at the deadline.

I wasn't very good. I was nervous to come here. I get it, whatever. But like, we're going now. Like, can at least give me the opportunity? I'm at least skating. I'm running into guys. Like, he doesn't want to play 11 minutes.

So was he 31 years old or something? You just want to do that? No. No. And to answer your question, yes. Yes. he's pissed yeah i'm sure he is and that's brutal that's brutal he is 31 it's brutal to like bring a guy in here he is pissed like do you know that or you just just speculate are we speculating

the the beliefs is my business to know yeah when he is pissed okay okay all right yeah i mean i think a lot of that has to do with they have no like the center depth i mean if you put him up in the top half of the lineup then it's domy at center as your fourth line center and i guess you're He's done that. I know, you have 100%. But I guess that's maybe why they don't want to do it. He wants to have the checking line or whatever, I guess. Lorenz played center.

Domi can play center. Like, play him on wing. Say what you will about Robertson's year. It's been better and Cowan or whatever. Can Lotton not do that? How about Cowan or sorry, Lotton, Tavares, Cowan? Yes. Give it a try.

That's a nice line. That's one of the things we're going to talk about tonight on the show, too, is what would you do with the line? up. And I have no problem putting Scotty Lotton now with Tavares. I mean, neither. I just think he's, well, I just, I think all of us, you know, watching the games every night, his shifts, maybe they're just more noticeable because he plays so little. But it's just like every time he comes on, he's like, oh, there he is.

24 kind of running into guys and digging deep. Let's go to Craig Barrowby on his comments on the second line now that features Easton Cowan. Yeah, in the third period, I thought that they created a lot more. Rob, he's got speed on that line, and Easton, too. And just, you know, Easton's there to, you know, he can make plays. And, you know, he found those guys a couple times on some plays. So hopefully maybe that line can get some chemistry and produce for us a little bit.

Notice what he mentions there when he says, speed. Yeah. Yeah, that's conscious. Pick up DeVarice's pace a little bit. I did that Jets game last night. They looked like the leaves. It's the same thing where it's like they lost Nikilers. They're not as fast as they were.

Tava or Taves for, you know, in there is not fast. Like they're just a slower team. And it's, you watch today's NHL. If you're not in the upper half of the speed teams, it's tough. It's tough sledding. Yeah. And I think. You're chasing it.

I think putting those two guys with Tavares is maybe an attempt to like the little defib to kind of get them going a little bit, make them play a little bit quicker. We will get into the Winnipeg Jets a little bit. more, obviously, in our national hour when we'll welcome in Sean Reynolds. Have you seen, I was looking at the central standings. I'm like, well, we know what the playoff picture

it is for the central. Three top teams are the three top teams in the league. No, they're in trouble. You mentioned Nylander, what, eight games? And what about Tavaris? There's got to be that or more, right? Well, one, I think I said yesterday, right? One non-empty netter since

November 20th, I want to say? Yeah, so he scored an empty netter against Florida on December 2nd. His goal before that was the 20th against Columbus. So since then it's been 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 11, 11, 12. Where exactly are we on JT? Because he had, if not one of the best starts of his career.

You know, it's real close. He was on pace for like 105 points, 110 points. People were talking about him pushing for Team Canada. who me yeah yeah you're looking at me yeah you said that probably i've said a lot of two hours in a day every day buddy exactly yeah throw it on the wall see if it sticks may have said something like that uh now i think you mentioned the other day maybe pushing him down or putting him on the left wing um he's where we thought he he obviously isn't a hundred and five point guy but he isn't this right now which we've seen for two weeks

So where's where's the middle for J.T. here? You know, the month of October saw him play 1725 per game. The month of November saw him play 1921. And this year he's back in the 17 pocket. This month, I mean? Yeah, yeah. Sorry, December. So like that month of November when they were without Matthews was two months.

You think it burnt them? I do. You wonder if you ever get to a point where you do not a healthy scratch, but a, you know, load management in the NBA is a real thing and people like want to roll their eyes and laugh at it whatever and it's like they're trying to get the most out of the athletes there's no way the best thing is for john devara is to play 20 minutes a night 82 times this year so did they do with marlowe no they wanted Patrick marlowe too but he wouldn't because he had a streak uh it was the what's it called like the consecutive game yeah iron man thing and he was so much better

uh he missed some games somewhere due to injuries at some point i don't i remember something I just remember being upset that he wouldn't take a knee for a minute. But I think the Olympic break will be great for him so that they come back after that with a little bit of time off. Like I remember him after the Four Nations last year kind of came out of that, like with a bit of a pep and a step. If he does, then you need to rest him before playoff. For sure. I totally agree. But I think they, yeah, this guy isn't a young man anymore.

And he was, I mean, that 19 minutes, I remember there being like nights where he's playing 23 minutes. Yeah, there's a stretch there where he really. He's 2040, 21, 59, 20, 23, 43, 21, 2240. They need them now because you don't want to be out of the Olympics and him feeling fresh in your eight points out of a playoff spot. That was going to be my joke that I was going to make, but I tried to be a little bit about a lot on that one. Yeah, I did, yeah.

Right? Yep. Well, maybe try Scott Lotton as a second line center for a game or two. There you go. Is that allowed or no? It's allowed. It's allowed? Yeah.

It's legal. Okay. Clearly after the last three minutes of Chicago, Nielander has to be a guy moving forward to get Austin the puck a little bit more. Can he do it? I mean, I don't even know what you're asking. He made a great play.

He made a really good play. You want him to change his game? Maybe. Yeah, maybe, maybe. Kenny? Do you think he can? He's a talented guy. I think he did it at the start of the season, right?

he was passing the puck. Wasn't that a whole thing that he was looking deferring too much, looking to pass too much? You think that would help somehow? Well, I just, I like the look of the goal. Goals are good.

Right? Yeah. I liked it when Willie was shooting it and then at the start of the year too. I'd like him to do one of the other, you know. There's been a drop-off for sure. I think they have all the pieces here.

We talked about Matthews ad nauseum as everyone else has. Tavares is in a slump. Neilander's in a slump here. Like, they're only going to go as their best players go And all their best players aren't going right now And where are we on Matthew and I's? I saw a clip.

Luke asked him about, asked if he would be on the Olympic team. Okay. He asked my practice. I thought, I mean, this is something that you wrote about. I thought it was relevant. Matthew said, listen. Like, we're...

No, no, he asked Rubet. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I hope, I hope he said. Why don't let's listen to his answer? Well, get, there you go. Well, that's on my call. I mean, I think... Advocate for your guy.

He's, uh, he's, Obviously, in consideration, for sure, he's a real good player. And he's got size and strength and, you know, whatever they decide what direction they want to go in in terms of what types of players. But, you know, I think he can be a real complement to some of the skill and talent they have over in the USA side. And just the guy that's going to forecheck hard and be a heavy player around the net and being around the net in that front and being physical. You know, he could be a real good player for him. But hopefully it happens, but that's not my call. I listen, fine answer.

You're supposed to, right? That's something your player wants. That's important to your player. Carbbery did it yesterday very nicely for Tom Wilson and Logan Thompson. Carbs. Better off-day questioning. Just focus on Washington. What do you mean?

Well, just, okay. I was going on an off day about the Olympics. Wrote your favorite article of all time today. So let's be a little, let's be a little. Oh, we did, right, you're right. Yeah, it's a good question, but like, I don't know, just seemed like a strange question on the day of a game. Well, it's all coming to a head here.

I think there's lots of articles about lots of teams right now. Yeah, okay, that's fine. Do you think he, I guess you wrote it, so you think he should be there? I wrote it and think he should be there. However, I don't think he's played very well. I was going to say, watch a lot of Leaves Hockey and think about the names that he's in competition with. I mean, I don't watch those teams.

teams as closely is. How's his number has been lately because he got off to a terrific start? He has a goal and two assists in his last eight games in this month. Yeah. So quiet. Quiet. Yeah. But, you know,

last game he had six shots. That's nice. Yeah. Before that. You're right, though. Like, it's hard to win when Matthew, like,

all these guys are slumping. It's like, you know, you want to say it about any team. Like, your best guys have to play well. But everyone shot it in the net for however many games straight. And they let in 10.

goals a game. So it feels like it's really not been together at the right time. You know who has shot it in a bit. Dakota Joshua. Good clip on him today from the coach. Healthy scratched on November 20 ill, 7th, 8th, something like that. And he kicked him in the ass. Yeah.

Worked. Four goals and eight games since and, you know, some good effort out there. Let's listen to the coach on Dak, Josh. I just think he's got his feet under him a little bit more. I thought he was a little, you know, we talked and stuff. He was a little bit just slow, slow with over. thinking things I think probably wanted to you know you come to a new team you're trying to

find some form and some chemistry here and I think he's just probably overthinking that he's just playing now he's doing his good job he's physical he's moving his feet better and that line's got some chemistry right so I think that's really helped yeah I think on his game winning goal full marks to him

I know Spencer Knight served it on a platter with the rebound, but you still have to be on your toes. You still have to stay up on the play and anticipate anything. He could have sat behind Cravier and just like angled them. You got right underneath them. Easily. Yeah. And I think that's

what he did probably the first six weeks of the season. Totally. Stay in position, don't want to get caught. Just like play it safe. React. React instead of forcing a reaction. It was just as good a heads-up play by statute as to fire the straight out. That's stature. On here higher. My goodness.

Without that rebound, boy. could have gone up with one of the worst dump-ins ever. Avoided the icing. Micelli's citing? Apparently, the coach. I'll hold on. I saw a tweet that said, like,

Barubi wants to get Micelli back in or something like that. I was like, well, he has that option, if that's true. Apparently they had a long conversation today of practice, two of them. I wasn't present,

but I saw some tweets and some conversations about that. So he talked about it. Let's play the clip there. Yeah, just about where he's at, and, you know, we've got to get him in there here soon. I'd like to anyhow, you know. You know, he's been out long enough and, you know, just different circumstances, not playing, but, you know, we need him. And, you know, conversation was, this guy's a good player.

He's been a good player before, and he can be a good player again, and what he needs to do to be a good player. And my job is to get him in the lineup. Are you sensing frustration from him at all? No, none. none not not not not not at all he's a very he's um he he knows that he's got to be better and he knows he can be better and uh he understands the whole situation very well and i don't sense frustration from him that's not good he played in a month probably should be a little frustrated hey coach hey bud what's going on this is really enjoying these bag skates every morning

shouldn't he be a little frustrated no i i i don't think eight scratches and nine games or whatever it's been is is there okay you can go to the rink and you can fake it i guess in front of your coach but how do you go from utah where you were a scratch for 30 plus games and then here going on i don't know a dozen and not just want to punch someone in the face or punch a wall or something i i don't get that yeah i mean he could probably get in. You know, yeah. It could probably be like a night where, you know,

somebody could set it. I'll do my, my Jets takes and I'm going to steal one from Gaz last night. I'm talking about Logan Stanley, who last couple years for them. Six goals. Last few years, if he made a mistake, he was the guy who came out, right? He was like the guy who was the six, seventh guy, and if he's no good, coming out, and you play a little hesitant like that.

This year, he's not coming out, and he's Bobby Orr out there. Like, not just the goals. He's, you know, dynamic on the blue line and looking. whatever. I have this quote by Machelli stuck in my head where he was like, well, you know, they want me to make plays, but they don't want me to turn the puck over. So just trying to, you know, that's a tough spot to be in. Like, be a skill guy, thread some needles out there, but no turnovers. It's like, if anyone could do that, you're Pavledatsuk. Yeah, it's true. You're Patrick Kane. You have to live with some

turnovers. I'm sure he's watching Domi serving up a pizza per night. No disrespect to a good player, but Domi's allowed to make mistakes. Micelli won and done. You look at the top of the turnover leaders every year in the NHL. It's all the best players. And it's like, I mean, because they're playing a ton and they get the puck and they're making high-risk plays.

But I guess when the lack of production is there, it doesn't come with, listen, I'm not going to die on the Micelli Hill, but he probably could, they're probably going to play him against the crappy. Nashville. Nathan McKinnon leads the NFL in giveaways. He also has a puck for an hour. Chishikov, McDavid, Eichol, Celebrini.

Those are your giveaway leaders. Yeah, but they also shoot 100 points in the way. They're allowed to. And their teams are all in the playoffs. Right. Okay. Yeah, it's true. Listen, I'm getting painted into a Mitchellie corner here, but like, just play the guy.

Again, Logan Stanley's got six goals, but the teams sucks right now. Yeah. And once upon a time, I scored 17 goals in Hartford, and I was, I was Clark Gillies, like, at the time. Yeah. But we were nowhere near the playoffs. So that makes a difference. But what's the point you're making about, like, Michelli, that he's the team. I mean, I think if the team was doing well in Winnipeg,

I don't think Stanley would have six goals. Like they would have a better player in his spot. I think there are opportunities that open up with struggles. Yeah, for me, the point of Stanley is just confidence. Yeah. Is that he's allowed to make a mistake and he's not going to come out of the game. And Machelli is currently not allowed to make a mistake. So when he goes back in, they're going to be like, all right, now prove it.

He's going to be like, uh-huh, you hesitate half a second. You like Bruby's comments about being a Washington Capitol? Yeah, it's funny because it's like kind of your era. All right. Because he played a long time there. I forget the number of games, but they asked him, by the way, didn't tell you guys this. But, you know, yesterday we're like, oh, you know, if they lose that game, we could be talking about the coach being fired. It was his 60th birthday yesterday.

Oh, happy 60th. You must feel awful, son, for that group chat. Was it really? It was his 60th birthday yesterday. So Luke Fox had a happy birthday to him. That's nice. They asked. He seems like a great man.

So, you know, our analysis aside, seems like great. So much fun as a teammate. So the clip is great from his time in Washington. Yeah, I think more than anything, you know, Dale Hunter and I were teammates for a long time here. I formed a great friendship with him. Coming in here, I just, I couldn't. I wanted to kill them from the days in Philly. But we became good friends.

I think more than anything, just all the great people that I was able to work with here and play for, trainers and players. I made a lot of good friendships here. It was here a long time. And, you know, the run we had to the Stanley Cup finals that year was something, you know, I remember a lot of. It was a great run. And yeah, I really enjoyed my time here.

Oh, they were neighbors. They went to the rink together. They sat on the bus. Oh, yeah. Like, thick as thieves. Scary. I wouldn't fight against them. Going on the ice against those two guys?

Well, I wouldn't. No, thank you. No, thank you. No, thank you. I will jump in open ocean waters with sharks before you put me on the ice of those two men. That would not be a lot of fun. No. Did you want to talk about Luke Fox's article at all or no?

No. We got to go. We got mail day. Ah, okay. No? Well, what? No, I'm just saying. You sent in the group chat today.

A lot of people have been writing about Austin Matthews this week. Yeah. And, you know, he was pretty passionate on the ear. Yeah. The ear move. He didn't like it at all. Luke did? I'm like, I didn't make a big deal out of it because I don't think it was that big of a deal.

And I just said, I don't think it was, you know, I think I used the word. I just didn't find it the timing appropriate. But, man, you go read his article, sportsnet.com. He had some issues with it. Can I, are we, let's go to Brose. That's your buddy. No, no, no, you started it. You wanted to open it up.

I just, just like, a lot of people talk about Toronto Sports Media, which we are, fully Toronto Sports Media. And a lot of people talk about, you know, driving people out of town where it's, you know, every day we have these two-hour shows talking about, like, is that, is that happening right now? Like, because people are like, oh, you're driving about it. I get that in my mentions. I get that in my DMs. Like, you're driving them out of town, blah, blah, blah. Is he... The noise is louder here than anywhere else.

Yeah. And it's... But it's, like, the way that, like, a beehive is noisy, right? Like, you know, if there's four or five bees, it's not that noisy, you get a lot of bees. And it's like, whoa, they're angry. And it's like, no, it's just a lot of them. Because, like, at my core, I'm conscious about how much we've talked about them this year and how it's so much it's been in the...

And hey, guess what? That's what the money's for. And I, that's why you're high paid. you're the captain at least there's going to be some scrutiny but just the that article today was like holy crap like that was you know we talk about it every day we have conversations every day but just reading that i was like god yeah like it's out there i don't know having it being in writing on sportset dot cae from luke just made it feel a little bit more real i mean i've read the article maybe i didn't take it as harsh as you know i don't think it's at harsh i'm just saying observing that

that conversation is more out in the but but to sam's point that type of article gets accused of driving that's what I mean people out of town this is the thing that bothers me about that did Mitch Marner get driven out of town with the noise I think it was a factor

I think I mean I think that's a factor when everybody leaves I mean look at Ryan O'Reilly the lease offered him okay and he didn't like he didn't want the noise like there's there's things that happen here it's not for everybody yeah and that goes part of your

it'd be nice if it were for somebody yeah there would be if there's one guy that's like yeah Willie got to do your homework and find that guy. Willie. It's funny.

It's funny because it might be for Willie. And guys like him try to dog pile him and Willie's a trampoline, boeing off the back. Sorry. He's like, hi, check out my Uberit. YouTube channel. Cherry's Pepper Bum.

I don't know. It's just maybe it's a stupid combo to inside baseball, but. Of Luke, of what I've said and written, what you've said and written is hold up the untruth that I've written or Luke written. Hold up the untruth.

Maybe it's just more of like my fan guilt where like I actually like really want them to win and I really want him to be good. Yeah. And it's just valid. And it's just like every day. I'm like, oh, this guy stinks again. I do think when there's something like the Matthews ear thing,

people have the opportunity to put on it what they already think of the guy. So I like him think he's a good player. I see a guy who was like, I heard you booing. Let's get going in the other direction. Positiveity. Yeah. You don't see that.

other people. So whatever you felt about Austin prior to it, you carry it into your... It's confirmation. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. Anyway, it is loud, though.

Louder than it's ever been around him for sure. Yeah. Okay. We'll take a quick break. Mailbag. We'll return. Midweek mailbag on a Thursday for our boy, Sammy. Up when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne.

Hey, it's Aylish Forafar. And I'm Justin Cutford. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest game. games of the night it's the fan free game 6 p.m. weekdays on sportsnet sportsnet 590 the fan and wherever you get your podcast welcome back to the leaf hour edition of the real kipper and boring show as a reminder Toronto Maple Leafs Washington capitals on sports net Ontario two pieces of the housekeeping hold on I'm not done okay with me oh yeah and J.B

okay let's go now I'm done love it can't wait to watch you boys tonight uh two pieces of housekeeping leafs line tomorrow uh 416 413 4141 our usual friday second half the lease hours i'd you remember that i just remembered it wow i don't think he's ever given anybody a day's notice ever well i've set i set an alarm last week this week i did it off the top of my head string on your finger uh yeah so 416 413 4141 make sure you call the lease line leave a good message uh And Toronto, you showed up for sick kids. Together, you bought over $1.4 million in tickets during the 50-50 fortune for sick kids.

Thanks to the generosity support and spirit of Toronto, you've helped sick kids deliver world-class care to children who need it most. And congrats to our prize winner, Kristen Ferreira, sorry, Borny. Thanks to you, sick kids can continue to provide life-saving surgeries and cutting-edge research across the country. The money we raise together will help sick kids care for every child because no. No two kids are the same. That's actually how you pronounce my name.

Yeah, there you go. I didn't win either. But congrats to Kristen. That's awesome. The holiday gifts will be looking a little better. Elliot Friedman gave us an update on our game tonight. Yep. He's saying that Spencer Carberry dropped an update, saying a lot of the capitals are under the weather.

It may only have 11 fords to use lots of game time decisions tonight. What's that means, Sammy? Moss win, can't lose. Another one. Most win. Every game at this point, eh? Can they decide that earlier than the last three minutes? Let's add.

Who's going to play? No, must win. I mean, that would be ideal. Should be able to win a game. So this is a good question, relevant to the one we were having about Austin Matthews before the break. This is from Chris O'Connor on Twitter. What can Austin Matthews learn from Vladimir Guerrero Jr. In terms of improving his relationship with the fan base?

I wish we got more personality from the least leadership group. Win? Yeah. Have massive success in playoffs. That's literally what Vladdy did. Like, Vladdy was on a plane to somewhere tropical, literally the day after game seven, like drinking on Instagram. And I never said anything. No one said anything.

Great. Yeah, but it's like that's, if someone, if one of the Leafs did that after losing a game seven in the first round, it would be international news. So it's just win some rounds and you get a little bit of leeway. There's nothing that he can do off the ice. I assure you. Well, I mean, but he could help things from...

No, he can't even help things. Of course, he can help things. What a silly thing you say. Why buy yourself a little bit of time for the inevitable that you're either going to ask to be traded or they're going to not resign you? Well, people have personalities where you root for them to have success. So you're saying that no one's rooting for him right now?

I'm not saying no one, but I'm saying things are pretty grim. Just shoot it in the net again. and you could act. Do you want to see me hit dingers? You can... That's Vladdy. Everybody loves him because Vladdy hits dingers. God, he hit dingers.

And when Austin shoots it in the net, he can do whatever he wants, or not do whatever he wants. If I'm him, I'm like, boys, I tucked it under the bar to tie the game and you booed me the whole week. Not available for post-game comments. Okay, just rest them then.

That's good. That's good. Dingers. Dingers. And dingers, Austin. Even to the last moment of the depressing end of the Jay season and the top of the 11th, or bottom of the 11th against the Dodgers, Laddy and his AB ripped the double to the left field.

Rift the double. The lead off double. Yes, man. Every step of the way he was as clutch as it possibly gets. So, yeah, that's what it is. This is from Matthew friggin Nyes on Twitter. Long time listener first time caller. If the least continue to play like this,

a couple good flashes, a lot of mediocre play. Should they be buyers or sellers at the deadline? At what point do we chalk this up to a mid-year and just save a little of the future assets that we have? I think we've had this conversation before and like I think it's a legitimate question right now. It's just too early. Too early for anyone to really.

And that's, that's, it's only early if you believe that, They can string five games together. They can look at the Atlantic or the Eastern Conference in general go, it sucks. And it's less about the Leafs now and more about how mediocrity is running rampant in the Eastern Conference. And that's how you have to factor in where you are after just 32 games, J.B. But I don't know, for you might be different, but I'm basing it on what I, don't see with the rest of the teams right now on

on where the Leafs stand still. You have a ton of luxury right now as the Leafs. You know, I wrote an article a couple weeks ago about how things hadn't gone well for the Leafs in that they had a rocky start which we anticipated with sort of a new look lineup and then they got hurt and kind of everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

And then I got to a point where I said, okay, things could turn around. And right after I wrote that actually, they went 5'1 and 1 that little stretch. They've had a couple. There's six, two and two in their last 10. Yeah, like they're going okay. So I think you give it some time here.

It's mid-December. You give it until mid-January. If they're able to climb up the standings look good, they get tannid back, they get Carlo back. Maybe then you go, we'll add something. Who knows, that's the only way you keep going. I think if they're like this, they're like 12th in the division or in the conference, I think you got to make a mature choice and say,

we're not winning the cup looking like this. And we got assets. We have no, you know, the cupers are bare. Can we flip Lawton, OEL, you know, go through the list. Bobby McMahon. Bobby McMahon. Yeah. You'll have pieces that people will want.

Yeah. You get a first back for OEL, you know, like, and all of a sudden maybe going in the next year, you're like, hey, we got a pick or we have assets. So, yeah, I think you've got time before you have to make this decision. Yeah. It's well said, Borny. That's well said. But, yeah, I think I would be lying if I'm not a little bit worried whenever I see the

little Rasmus Anderson things keep popping up you should be worried it's like all that's the type of stuff that buries you for he'd be willing to make he'd be willing to come here with an extension I'm like I don't want either of these things like I just come here I don't he was pretty close to being a leaf already like this season and I they wanted they went hard at the deadline I want to say last summer or that's a trade deadline last they they thought they were close and I I get the sense that probably Tree Living still sniffing around there, but I don't know to what degree if it's as hot and heavy as it was

at the trade deadline or even this summer. I don't know where it stands right now, but he really likes that player. I think he'd be a fun personality. You tell him a guy who kind of likes that smoke. He's entertaining, he's staring people down games and he'll run his mouth to Tom Wilson. He's seen a lot of flame stands being like, Have fun with Swedish Morgan Riley.

That hurts. This is from John Johnson on Twitter. Other than getting healthy, it might be difficult to answer since there's a lot. But what do you think is the number one thing we need to fix to get into the playoffs? Austin Matthews spinal cord. Anthony stole ours his neck.

Power play? Yeah. That's going to be my answer. Yeah, we're working on it. What are they up to 31? want to know what do you come last place truly though the power play is wretched and looking at the last five years year over year of like first fifth 12th 17th 31st the progression from really an asset to whatever this is has been stark and there's no reason it's mind bodily yeah can Anderson run a

PB1 I think weager probably does it in calgary but well the least are no longer last that's good I think he can shoot it in the net from the blue line. Okay. But I don't know to what degree. My boy, Justin Falk shot his eighth in last night. Yeah, I saw that. He, yeah, the lease are now up to 30th. So we're a short change in them.

They're up to 15. Here we go. They now pass the L.A. Kings and the Calgary fame. So they're going to play. Do you know the Calgary? Get the guy from Calgary to run the barrel. Do you know how good Calgary's penalty kill is? Yeah.

It might be better than their power play. I think they, in the last 15 games, they've given up for and scored for. Yeah, they're fifth in the league overall in penalty kill. But I check net. Check net, P.K. You got that up there? I don't, Bernie, that is.

It's a category right beside it. Oh, it's on that. It's on that. Oh, yeah, right there. Oh, yeah, right there. Oh, yeah, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. They're second. Second and net penalty kill in terms of goals scored.

Negate some with your. Adam Collie asking about getting a lot and more ice time. Lots of people are noticing that one. Tracy Hamm and eggs. since there's no Phoenix team anymore I want to say this too and you made the point that with Lotton like

how many how many guys how many first rounders can you spend at the trade deadline only to see them walk out the door and not come back right like enough of that if I

there would be teams at this deadline being like Scott Lotton at 1.5 sure maybe you don't get a prospect with it this time because you have a one last year but you get a first No, you don't. No, you don't get a first time.

You absolutely do. Listen, can I say something? Philly sat for over a year and demanded a first rounder and could not get it until the Leafs gave it to it. But they also got a prospect, you know, the cost went up to that. Because they knew how desperate the Leafs were. They were desperate. If no one would go first and the Leafs threw in for Banking, that would be, that's tough.

Tough. That's true. Why would you lie to me? So that hurts. I mean, this is just the information that you gather, that they had Lottin out there for a very long time at a first, and no one bit. I would love to see him.

In that case, just resigned the kid. I would love to see him extended for four years. A long-ish time. What would you pay him? Knowing that he can't, doesn't put together 20 goals. What do you pay for that? Two million bucks. 2.1.

Yeah. I think he's. What do you get? He was three before, right? I think at 15, 16 minutes, he's more valuable than that. I think somebody. He was three, right? They retained 50%.

Yeah, I think that's right. So, like, what, three and a half for four probably? He'd be looking for a little raise, I would imagine, with the cap going up. But I don't think anybody's going to give him four or five, no. It's hard when your minutes are down. But if he's playing 11 minutes at night, he's not going to stay. Like, why, if he's playing. He makes three even right now per year.

Playing 10 minutes. He's like, yeah, you can't wait to stay. There are other teams. You've got to remember this, too. There's other teams that can overpay a million bucks just to bring them in. A lot of capital going up. And then they could also trade them if they want down the road, whatever arrangements you make. But it'll get tricky here.

Good stuff, boys. All right. Nice job on the mailbag, Sammy. Ah, thanks. We didn't get to talk about what teams Matthews is going to sign with. Kings. Yeah. Kings.

Just got to know, maybe Jacob Chikrin under the weather, maybe. That'd be a good guy to miss out tonight. Like Chikrin, but hope he's not playing tonight. All right. Just warming up here. We go national next. Sean Reynolds will explain a lot

alongside our Justin Bourne, who did the game last night, which Winnipeg laid an egg. I called Logan's family Charra. Chara. Chara. All right. More when we return, National.