Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Shifting 'C's

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with a chat about the value of team bonding in the preseason. Then, they discuss Matthews taking over as captain and how both his and Tavares' roles will change. Later, they take a look at the Leafs' crease and project how the team will split time between Woll & Stolarz. Finally, they dive deep into the blueline group and discuss roster bubble players.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliate.

right back at you live and in color real kipper and born show seen on sports that listened on sports at 590 the fan force that 360 and sports that plus leafs on the ice where Where are they? Muskoka. Muskoka. Muskoka Lumber Community Center, home of the Muskoka Bears Junior Z Team. Hey, Bears. Here you go. Did someone call you or something? Yeah, one of the guys.

I forget the guy's name, but he reached out. He didn't tell me where they're playing. One of the guys, I think it's the coach, maybe the team reached out to me. Way to go. There you go. Love that. So that's why he got the call out in the lineup.

Huge plug. Because he sent me an email. There you go. Huge plug. The power of emails. So they're up there. They're bonding. We've had bonding conversations before.

Many first bonding trips. Why didn't we go up there and do that before our show started? Go play paintball? The three-man paintball game? I tried to get you guys, what, two weeks ago, and you bailed. Rosedale, yeah. I still took Sammy out to Rosedale. I thought when we went to, we played Angus Glenn, the three of us,

for the Renaissance. That was a good bonding one. That was a good day. Renaissance, yeah. Recovery show, great event. Did we win? We finished second. Yeah.

But we couldn't make a putt. But I will say, I thought the boys' vibes were very high from that. We really enjoyed hanging out with each other. That was bonding. I feel like we really did bond on that trip. On that. We're back. I don't think anybody thought that yesterday's show.

No, I don't think so. I'm really hoping today that it starts to come to fruition and they can see that the bonding paid off, but I didn't get a sense that we showed anybody we bonded. We need stogies on the show. Yeah. We need a couple of big cigars. I think that would get us through, get the vibes loose in here.

Stogies are, sorry, my controversial opinion, stogies are gross. Give me a dart all day long. Every year, like like you know under probably shanty's like close to nine ten years now they've they've done this bonding thing i mean has it ever really shown on the ice well i don't know i mean you played in the nhl for a lot of years is there not value in getting everyone away and together? When you look at this team over the years, did they ever really truly come across as a very tight, close team?

Or do you have to fight to show that you're close? Because it sounds like they like each other. But it does sound like they've constantly said how close they are eight straight years closest team in the league i know but like i for me i always it's the proof in the pudding at the end right i mean is it overrated is it overrated i always hated it when they're like hey we're going're going away. You're playing paintball together. You're in a golf group with this guy and that guy who you don't actually hang out with.

But I do see at the end of it, it's like, all right, I hung out with a guy I normally wouldn't. I know him a little better. I see some value in it. I know, but it has to kind of show. The only thing that matters is if it shows on the ice, you can bring. The Panthers were like, we won the cup

because we played golf in Muskoka in September. No, no. That's not why. we won the cup because we played golf in muskoka in september no no that's not why they won the cup because they're stacked and they're good they like they watched each other's back like hawks on the ice for sure better than any other team yeah so do you think that's because they're close they're a close-knit group but i guess there's different types of close yeah, I personally liked those bonding trips because I had, I know I had a personality where I could go up there and I knew I could kind of keep the guys loose. I could make them laugh. I could get them to just have a good time.

So it was in my wheelhouse. Sure. It's just not for everybody, though. I really like you. We spend a lot of time together. I enjoy your company. You sound like you we spend a lot of time together i enjoy your company if arbor jack guy comes in here and elbows you in the face i'm gonna need a minute to talk myself into fighting them on your behalf i'm gonna need a sec be like oh i guess i should do this i'm gonna

look like some of the leafs going oh is that me am i the closest guy but i i think this type of team under craig bruby and and the ask from him will will bring them closer just that alone yeah and if it makes it look like they've that the cherry on top is that you got to spend two or three days up in muskoka and it brought you guys closer together but i can already see that they're gonna have this team that is gonna piss off some other teams yeah let me quiz you on something while we're on this topic what event that a team went through made you feel more close what what sort of thing would a team go through where you're suddenly like that really did it that brought our group together because there's one for me a theme every year is there something that comes to mind for you i don't know i mean it for me it was just a matter of like having group decisions on the road and that

included maybe breaking curfew yeah right are we doing this if we're doing it we have to all do it yeah we got to all stick together and you know i'm I'm not breaking curfew unless I'm with Mark Messier. That's what I was going to say. So it's like, hey, Kipriels, you broke curfew. And I said, yeah, Mark told me to come with him. What would you have done, Coley or Keenan? What would you do in that situation? Would you tell Mark no?

Because I'll tell you the answer that would bring us closer together is say, yes, I'm coming. I had like a line brawl in mind. When you go into the dressing room after there's 20 gloves on the ice and everyone's in the dressing room and talking about what just happened, adrenaline is through the roof. Yeah. That is another way that it ends up happening organically.

You can't plan that, but at least you can. You're right. It is those emotional elements on the ice that I think is the biggest proof in the pudding. I think we got a chance to see a lot more of it this year with craig bruby yeah you think i think sheldon tried on occasion to go that way but it just it never kind of really showed but they're between tree living and and anduby, the ask is going to be a lot more in your face for the players. And if they've already had the conversation on accountability and, you know, if we don't believe that your commitment to the team on and off the ice is there, we're going to call you out a lot more behind the scenes probably more than ever. And I think the one thing I can tell you from my experience

is coming in with a new coach is you're always on your best behavior early, right? It's like it's that first impression. I got to make a good first impression. So all the guys are finishing their checks and they've played hard. I think I've seen them play hard this preseason. Agreed. I was just looking at uh steven lawrence's fight card to see if they had guys that would do it past ryan reeves that physical element when you know chief leans on him and says it's time you know like who who

is there that's going to do it because they haven't had a ton of those guys uh my boy nick robertson's probably not going to do it so maybe lawrence of him he's got he's got about six or seven fights on his fight card quickly before we move on to the massive list of things we didn't get to yesterday uh brube got asked about like his favorite bonding thing and it was a mike keenan story do you want to hear it's funny yeah perfect it'll be clip number two there there, Derek. What was your favorite team-binding trip as a player? Mike Keenan took us to Lake Placid one year. I was a rookie. And actually, it was kind of like throughout the year. It was in the middle of the year.

And we went there for like three days. And so we get dressed for practice, right? We're going to go out and practice. We went there for like three days. We get dressed for practice, right? We're going to go out and practice. And here comes Mike Keenan in the room, fully dressed. Says, let's go, boys. You want a piece of me? I'm going to be playing today.

So we went out on scrimmage and Mike was playing. But nobody took a shot at him. I got a good kick out of it, though. Kip, you guys are the same age, you and Ruby, and you're with the Flyers. Would you have been there? Yeah, we played together in Hershey briefly. Okay, but you weren't on that Lake Placid.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I was still in the minors, I think. Gotcha. With Hershey. Would you have run Keenan? Yeah, I would have. Yeah, I would have. Yeah, I would have. He's actually, I think he's in town. He's doing a book tour.

Yeah, he's got a book tour. We should get him on. Would you have a twitch if he was in here? Would it make you uncomfortable or what? No, no, no, not at all. I think if my junior coach is in here. Do you talk to him? Oh, yeah.

Well, I mean, I just saw him this past weekend and we hung out, he told some lies. And Brian Leach was in the back going, that's not the way I remember it. That's not the way I remember it. And, you know. That's a great part about being in your 70s. You just kind of know and remember. You just kind of make it up.

We'll get him on. All right. Love it. Let's get him on and listen to some of those. Fake stories? Some of those stories. Love it. For sure. All right. so where do you guys want to start because there's so many topics that uh we're gonna carry through probably right up until game one next wednesday night well i think beliefs open up against the montreal canadians this theme of team building team bonding

kind of takes you to leadership naturally doesn't it it? Sure. John Tavares hands the captaincy over to Austin Matthews. I'm not sure he handed it. He willingly gave it to him out of the goodness of his altruistic heart. Listen, I'm not going to pat ourselves on the back. Oh, yeah. I'll do it. You guys were all over this for three years. We started this

conversation and you know of course there's always the backlash that you guys don't know what you're talking about you're idiots they'll never ever take away the captaincy from john tavaris yeah um and lo and behold they did so like you know and I reported that I'm not sure if it's going to happen or not, but the discussions are real, and there is a real strong possibility that they will make Austin Matthews captain next year. So, ultimately, surprised or not surprised? Not at all surprised myself. As you mentioned, we've been talking about it for years.

And to me, the hiring of Craig Berube, I'm hoping, is a start of a more honest Toronto Maple Leafs. And I don't mean from a PR perspective, but he's an honest effort guy, no BS, straightforward, much like Austin Matthews is the leader of this team. He is the guy they look to and the chips are down. He plays a ton of minutes. He answers questions in the media.

Tavares was a good captain for the Toronto Maple Leafs, but this is the leader of the team. He's the one that they're going to go as he goes. So this is a more honest representation of it rather than, you know, a, well, he came here to the goodness of his heart, so we gave him the C sort of thing. This makes sense to me. Yeah, it does make sense. There is part of me that's like, you know, a, well, he came here to the goodness of his heart, so we gave him the C sort of thing. This makes sense to me.

Yeah, it does make sense. There is part of me that's like, you know, just maybe let him play out the end of this contract as the captain. Well, I got a lot of that from a lot of people going, just let him finish. 100%. Let him. Why now?

Because you don't have years to waste. It's time to turn the page. New lease. Listen, I am not disagreeing with you but there was there was a lot of people Sammy that people in my life reached out to me and said that's like it feels dirty is what I got a lot a dirty dirty like it felt like making them sit up not house hockey listen I understand but I'm just telling you like as a guy that gets a lot of leafs text in his life yeah people were talking about how you're making him sit up there you're making him go through the whole process how it just felt a little bit weird to have it be like that yeah i

didn't love that you know that that like making him sit up there and be like i'm happy for him and do it like i don't know it just it felt a little bit weird it did i think it was the right choice but maybe you didn't have to make it this off there's not too many guys that i've played with that would have handled it like john tovars did right all class well listen he took the high road okay he took the high road and you, you know, there are some players out there that have worn the sea that said, if you don't think that I can still do this or you don't want me to do that, then get rid of me. I'm out of here.

I will not stand for this. Do you think the Leafs were, like, kind of hoping that would happen? Listen, if it could help them alleviate the cap, I think the Leafs were prepared to hear that from him but he didn't go down that road but i know a lot of players that i've talked to ex-players that would have said what why would he why would he accept that so readily that that they've come to you and said we can't win with you as a captain, so you need to pass it over. He probably played that movie out in his mind.

He probably saw how quickly it would have gone from, you don't think I can lead? Then send me out of here. And the next day he'd have been in Columbus. He's made it crystal clear that he wants to stay here, and this move can only help him, right? Really? Yes, of course. i was gonna chance to be a part of this going forward that's what i was gonna ask both of you is there part of him maybe and

like i've never really put being a part of a team like this or like a captaincy or having to deal with that but like from your two perspective where he'd be like oh thank god i don't have to be the captain of this anymore like i i can just kind of play my role as like oh thank god i don't have to be the captain of this anymore like i i can just kind of play my role as a third line center i don't have to talk to the media every single day like there's no part of them that would be like that i don't claim to know john tavar as well yeah but that ain't him you're describing i don't know that's why i'm asking from what i can see from afar yeah i would sit there and say that since this guy's put on skates, he's been the best player on the team every year, top scorer. And, like, this is new territory for him, man.

It is, Kip, but some people recognize where they're at and adapt. We've seen Corey Perry's second act as a bottom six guy. We've seen Jason Spezza come here. Corey Perry can go out there and piss people off. He can spear you. There's different ways Corey Perry can influence a hockey game. Spezza, whose knee did he take out in Winnipeg? He took out his head with his knee.

Who fought in the playoffs to just to wow what a warrior spezza is fighting and kneeing guys and willing to get suspended i'm just telling you now is john gonna go and do those sorts of things to make this transition that you speak no because i don't see it as those guys became tough guys to stay in the league. I see it as these are high IQ hockey players who did what they had to do to stay in the league, to stay where they wanted and stay relevant. And for Tavares, if that evolution isn't, don't become a tough guy, but become a third line center.

Maybe he's just someone saying, hey, recognize where I'm at. I'm a 65 point guy, not a hundred point guy anymore. Maybe he's just showing a willingness to do what it takes to be a part of this thing here. I think that should be the mindset. But when a guy's been a captain his whole career and a star, all-star, and a Team Canada guy, that's a very big pill to swallow.

I mean, he's probably had to do some major soul-searching this offseason with his diminished role and the way that they've – it's a big thing to ask him. I'm sure it was even hard for them to go for it. And you also – you're not sure if he's going to be able to adapt and do the things that you're talking about like so you know a lot of conversation is signing an extension okay like what's the number what are you paying for do we You got to wait and see. You can't give him a nickel until you see what it looks like. His third liner wearing an A.

You can't make that decision now. He might be worth, I don't know, maybe $4 million. Maybe he's worth $800,000. It depends how this works. So you're not sure? No one's sure about Willie at second line centerman. Like, if it doesn't work out, I don't know what choices you have, but one of them is moving John back in.

Oh, yeah. And him still finding a way to put 55, 60 points up as a second line centerman. Yeah, there's a very real scenario where it's just Matthews, Martin, or Willie, and and john tavaris is the two parents on the top two lines again right for sure like it's that is i mean it's a recipe for 100 point season but yes but i think at least the leafs have acknowledged we can't win like that we've tried and tried again and tried again yeah and tried. And I think that they understand that.

So if you're going to sign John to anything, you got to make sure that it's crystal clear that this is your new role. You're going to play the third line. And what do we expect out of you in that position? Is it 40 points, 50 points, points 60 points does that mean he's still number one on the is he third line but yet number one on the power play yeah probably probably yeah i'm just looking um like his ice time last year was pretty low was it not am i

17 17 35 yeah 17 50 yeah so i mean he's working his way to third line minutes that's the second 17? 1735? Yeah. 1750. Yeah. So, I mean, he's working his way to third line minutes. That's the second line minutes. But, you know, I mean, not to get too far off on this conversation, but I'm okay with, yeah, doing it now because Austin is the face of the team. And you've got to give Austin more ownership here. Buddy, think of the money and the time that you've invested in this guy. And he's put up a real good show for you with the 60 goals, 69.

If we're going to call Marner a 100-point guy, we can call him a 70-goal guy. He did score 70. He scored one in the playoffs. You're all in on him yeah so hey it's it's this is your team now right absolutely and so you know do you believe that he as a leader is a guy who could pull a team through no because there's no proof of that there's nothing to fall on this is just you you just hope this is an extension of the evolution of Austin Matthews.

You're hoping that this is the direction that it goes. But up until now, no real huge sample size that you've led this team to anything at this point. Yeah. You know, I think a reasonable, and I get that. I am a believer just watching the way this guy plays hockey, and I think Barkov was kind of a nice template for him, a nice molding. Barkov might have had four PIMs in playoffs,

but he's big, and he's strong, and he dragged people to the net, and he played big in big games, and he hadn't. Barkov had years where he was not a good power player sorry a playoff player so there is you can see how it can get there for Matthews but Barkov doesn't you know the numbers aren't important to Barkov

and I don't know if if Austin's at that point where it's like it ain't about 50 60 or 70 goals it's about the end of last year was sure about 70 goals. It was. And I wonder, oh, yeah, that was another theme all year long.

Like, guys, but this is, I wonder for these Toronto Maple Leaf core guys, if the numbers, all the numbers, dollars included, mostly dollars, are ever going to be enough, where it's like, you've been paid, focus on winning. You've hit big milestones

focus on winning like none of this other stuff they've all got it now they have individual accolades they have a lot of money it's now it's like okay you're running out of years to be great and the young guys behind you are going to be the next great ones it's now so you i wonder if they'll be mature enough to do what you're saying and saying i I don't care if I get 70, I'll get 50. I just want to win more. So from a fan's perspective, you look at Matthews getting the C, and it's an outside perspective as well. How much, he's going to talk to the media more. He's the first guy out there.

What's the real change? What is the real change? Is Matthews holding back something in the room the last seven years? Is he not emboldened to be like, hey, guys, we got to get going here? Like, in the room, what is the dynamic change, if any? That's the question I have no idea the answer to. Well, you can't get a guy to just change like that.

Like, he's not going to start running guys through the end boards. Or, you know, and I don't... Are these Obama just giving these long speeches? I think he's just... There's going to be more of the same, but with a little bit more emphasis on, like, nobody can be happy until we win. And you want to be the guy...

Yeah, sorry. And you just have to set that tone that the only thing that matters here is winning and getting ready for the playoffs. Your coach needs to be able to point at your captain on video and go, if he can do that, you can all do that. And I think that's hard with Tavares just because of his skating right now, but Matthews should be able to point to him a little bit more.

Defensively responsible guy who shoots it in the net a whole lot would be a good guy to kind of – The idea of what his game is is pretty perfect for a coach to build off the back of. Maybe not the playoffs as much, but regular season, no question. All right. Are you exhausted on that? We've done an hour and a half on the lease.

We haven't mentioned the goaltenders. They have goalies. Two goalies. Four. Four, yeah. Good goaltending depth. Four. Easy.

Well, there is four. There's four. And. In body. There's four that they think, you know, push comes to shove, can go in there and play. How many are they going to need? Four. Four?

That's the question. We're currently having a Matt Murray conversation. If people can't hear the undertones of what's happening. Kipper's boy. Yeah, because there's Wohl, Stolarz, Hildeby, and Matt Murray. Yeah. And Matt Murray is off hip surgeries to both hips, right? Matt Murray's just got to, yeah, come back and play some American League games

and show he can play. He's Jones. Yeah, Jones played 10 games for the Leafs last year, put up good numbers. Not the Hilda Beast. He's playing in the minors, and he'll be called upon if there's an injury or some issues. And come March, April,

if you're really, really comfortable with Hilda Beast at the third position, you flip Matt Murray as an asset. Do you think he'd get claimed on waivers? Or do you think he needs to show he can play goal? No, I don't think he'd get claimed on waivers. Martin George played 19 games last year. And he was good.

Started 19 and played in 22. And he was good. Yeah, there was a couple games there where he needed him badly for a couple times. So yeah, mean the big question here is wool and stole arts for the number one and two or number one and two whatever way you want to look at it do we have a i really believe this is both guys have been told that if you play better than the other guy you will go 10 more than the other guy so wool's only played

once in preseason do we know why no and they asked joseph wall that very question a few days ago i believe we have the clip on if you want to hear his response to the question good producer okay there we go and a game since that first one i'm just curious what's the thought process in terms of your preseason playing time at this camp yeah um you know when i'm called to go on the net i'll go on the head and do my best. I think it's trying to get everyone into games and whatnot. So, yeah, I'm comfortable with where I'm at, and I'm excited to play some more hockey. Okay.

And then the coach was asked about this situation as well, Craig Berube on... Is it anything to do with the medical staff, or is that... It has nothing to do with anything. Don't read into anything like that. It's the plan. The plan. The plan.

This is the first I've heard of the capitalized the plan. Derek, we need that drop, please. It has nothing to do with anything, please. It has nothing to do with anything. Thank you. Thank you. He says he's getting all three nothing to do with anything a little strange right a young guy gonna be your starter potentially like let's get the things going in the right direction for playoffs they also started in the first game with like a legit lineup. I'd still like to think that this is kind of funneling towards Joseph Wall getting more of a serious chance to be the number one.

Yeah. He's got the three-year contract. He's the homegrown guy. He's the number one. Yeah. He's got the three-year contract. He's the homegrown guy. He's the younger guy. But you don't have to, he doesn't have to go 8 of 10 to start the season or 9 of 11 or 12. 6 of 10. Maybe 6 to 10.

I don't know. Don't read into anything like that. I think if the Leafs are in contention in the atlantic which they should be then and and both of them are healthy then i think it's it's looking 50 45 47 50 starts for joseph wall All I know is last year's Game 6 to Game 7 really hangs over me. Joseph Wall.

That was a heartbreaking moment when he was so good in Game 6 and was about to shut out the Bruins and it was like, they got it. They got a guy. They got one of those young guys who's going to go on a freakish run and here he comes. And we're sitting here the day of game seven going, wait,

what's happening right now? Who's not playing? He literally just disappeared. Like it was, he played some of the best goaltending I've ever seen a goalie play, like for the Leafs in the playoffs, which is a list of a lot of guys who have carried some crappy teams in my life, and he looked as good as any of them. And he just disappeared. I actually feel wildly unsatisfied by the answers we have on Wolves injury, some crappy teams in my life and he looked as good as any of them and he just disappeared i actually

feel wildly unsatisfied by the answers we have on wool's injury neil anders and matthews none of them ever satisfied me in terms of the team saying here's what happened that's like yeah they're not going to but why every team when the year when they're done they go oh he had a broken wrist and he had a punctured lung they did talk about migraines, didn't they? And they talked. Very nebulous. And flu-like symptoms for Austin that left him like with pasty white ghostly looks. Is that what this is?

That's the first time I've heard those words. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh. What happened to the concussions. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh. What happened to the concussions? No, no. He battled. He just didn't.

He had something. I know. This is the problem. What was it? I don't know. All I know is he came to the rink one day and he looked like he was dipped in vanilla. That's all I know. All right.

It was obviously the Charlie McAvoy sle know all right was it this it was obviously the charlie mcavoy slew foot that did it yeah that's probably a good place to trace the origin of that yeah but so to go back to the goaltending yeah i mean stolars i was not sure about the signing in terms of i'd never really seen him you know i see him playing for Florida but I didn't what I've seen from him in the preseason big goalie he's got a chance to be a very good goaltender listen as much as you can the the constant narrative over the last few years is Mitch doesn't show up or Austin doesn't score like he usually does or you know the leafs defense stink or whatever there's also an argument that said just head to head throw everything out of the equation that the cut the the constant narrative in the playoffs is just the leafs were out goalied that's it that's it and the one time

in nine tries samsonov was better than vasilevsky and every shot when and that's because vasilevsky was yeah every shot went in but sammy was good for sure sammy was good yeah i think right he was he was good enough and last year swayman was better in the years before vasilevsky was better yeah and if the leafs can just get over the hump and either get wall or stolars or somebody to step up, then that could also be the one thing that gets them truly, truly over the hump. Now, goaltenders tend to have really good, like their primes are older, and I think you see goalies have great years at 28, 29, 30. Stoller's is 29.

Some fancy stats, the goal saved above expected. He was, depending on how you sort it between third and first in the nhl last year in the games he did play he was awesome he's six foot six i mean there's a lot of stuff that said here's a guy who just needs some opportunity i think he could be that guy kip and i don't know what wool's health will be his ankles are an issue i think he had a really really i don't know i mean he was insulated in Florida. Is that what you're going to say? No, no, no, no. You're talking about Stoller's or? I was, yeah.

Stoller's. Wohl was also up there in those categories. Yeah. I think Wohl had a really good summer and he understands, I think, the health issues and at times there's certain things in training that he could have done differently?

I mean, goalies are weird as we know. And, you know, if there's a few things that you can tweak or something or, you know, whether or not he's got ankle issues or not, but they're strengthening other muscles. I mean, he did have that summer. I know the Leafs talked about it publicly a little bit about, and Tree Living touched on this, can he go back and can he change a few things?

And I heard he did. And I heard he had a really, really good summer. And he is mentally, physically, emotionally, like, ready for this new challenge of just proving everybody that whatever's happened in the past has been a bit of a fluke and I'm ready to go. You have to feel good that when we have goalie analysts on this show, they all rave about Wohl

technically. They say he's he looks like the best goalies when he's playing well and all that. So there's high ceiling on him and a high ceiling on Stolarz. You like the odds of one of the two guys doing it. If they don't, well kill the beast, Murray. Any team's in trouble if you're down to your third goal. on him and a high ceiling on Stolarz. You like the odds of one of the two guys doing it. If they don't, well, kill the beast, Murray. Any team's in trouble if you're down to your third goal. You mentioned that

about Wall and the offseason stuff. I mean, there's definitely a chance that they're not playing in the preseason because they're terrified of him getting hurt in the preseason. Yeah, but I hate that. Yeah, but I mean, we can talk about this later, maybe more in the National Hour about how long the preseason is. Two starts for a goalie for me and then you head into the regular season.

Like, I don't need them starting every game. I feel like it's a ton. So I think they're probably a little worried about doing off-the-ice stuff, working with them in practice. Everybody's screaming that training camps, you don't need the exhibition games. They're already in shape.

Short and numb. Too many guys getting hurt. Yeah, yeah. And now... You want more games for him. No, no. I want... Play the games. No, no, I want, no.

Play the games. No, I don't want him to play any games. I'm fine with him playing lack of games. You've completely missed. We are at the point where I want him to play the full game. I would like him to play tomorrow night for 60 minutes. They're both going to get full games. Stolarz and Wall will get full games.

Play Wall tomorrow and then his next start will be October 9th. It'll be exactly what you wanted, which is basically two starts and yeah and then away we go so we'll see but i mean dare i say i'm optimistic about the least goaltending is that fair or you know last year they were everybody's optimistic they were the whole league 32 teams think that your goaltending is great you're not you're not optimistic about it listen i i i'm a big joseph wall fan well i guess they got asked i am a fan of his for sure i i think again i saw what you guys saw last year where it was flashes of like a brilliance you got four guys right now where you think that the depth is pretty good yeah none of them have ever proven that they can carry a team so well that's the challenge the murray thing aside so i'm i'm would i bet money on them probably not here's what i like last year the

least finished 23rd in team save percentage if these guys are okay the least are no farther behind they're actually better than last year if they can give them league average goaltending so i believe they can get them there. It's a low bar. All right, let's take a quick break. We've gone through a show and a half yet, and we haven't even touched on what people have claimed has been their biggest problem over the course of nine years. Defense.

We haven't mentioned a defender yet. Defense at all. I mean, there's this other thing that people are kind of fixing their crawler, but the power play hasn't been mentioned either. So. All right. Rolling up the same guy. More to chew on still when we return to Real Kipper and Born.

Hey, it's Matt Marchese. And I'm Mike Futa. We're discussing the top stories of the day across the NHL and the hockey world weekdays at noon. It's the Fan Hockey Show on Sportsnet 590, The Fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. And Kip Rios, Justin Bourne, Sammy McKee. I think as a group, we can all collectively say that we think that the Leaf blue line is much better.

Right? How much better? Best in the Matthews era, I would say. You're that high on it. Yeah. Neither of you guys are? Best in the Matthews era. Uh-huh.

I can't put together a group in my head like there's Muzzin and Labushkin on at the same time. Anyway. Probably, depth-wise, yes. my head like it was muzzin and labushkin on the same time anyway probably uh depth wise yes depth wise for sure what do they got nine guys you would but capably put over the boards uh you'd like to think every once in a while you got a game breaker back there and we'd like to think that that would be in the hands of morgan riley can he can can morgan bounce back and and have a season like he did with what a few how many years ago did he put up like 70 points with ron hainsey two years ago no it's a long time ago yeah it was a while ago yeah right haainsey was more than two years ago. That's for sure. If Morgan Riley becomes that guy again,

all of a sudden that blue line looks even better. So he scored 20 goals in 18-19. 72 points. And in 21-22, he had 68 points in 82 games. So you got Riley, Tanev, Ekman, Larson larson mccabe benoit lilligran um hawk and pa rafai hawk and buzz not close not close i don't think he's close no and i think the coach talked about this very thing today okay i'm in the home of the bears if you want to hear it yeah okay let's play it uh on hawk and, Derek, Aruba, clip three.

In terms of Hawk and Paw, are you being ready for game action? Yeah, that's a tough one. I can't really answer that question right now. We have to wait and see. We've got a little bit of time yet and see where he gets to and where he's at. He's got to be comfortable with getting in there and playing a game. He's a project, guys. I'm not at all confident this guy's going to be released this year.

He's just a project. And I think if you can handpick games during the regular season and just hope that he might be available in the playoffs is their best case scenario. But he cannot become an everyday player with that knee it's managing the knee from here on in what do we think of them announcing this like two-year contract for him in the summer is that yeah and then not being two years well i think it was first steve simmons that mentioned something about it. Bone on bone. And then I

followed it up, you know, because I had talked to someone in Dallas and they're like, yeah, we like him, but there's nothing with his knee that would warrant us to think that we can depend on him. Over under 15 games for Hawk and Paw for the Leafs this year.

God, if it's not over, then it's bad. Yeah. It's bad. It's just not good. Well, it's not good. All right. So I think the goal is to try to get them 40 games.

I think anything around 40 and keeping him healthy. And can you get a few games in there? And then if the knee starts swelling up, he needs a week off and then back and forth. But like, he's a big guy. Yeah. I mean, he could. He's a monster.

He could add some serious depth to the Leafs if they can keep him healthy. That seems like a pretty big if the way you're talking you know the coach is talking now you know outside of that i i do like of course we we all love tan of the question is too he plays so darn hard that you know how many how many games do you need out of him during the regular season to get him ready for the playoffs. So what's he been playing lately? Oliver Ackman-Larsen had a good year, a Stanley Cup year for Florida.

But, you know, can you find out the ice times for Florida last year? Because I don't think they used him. Did they use him as a top four most nights? At the start of the year he played, he was on their top pairing. So last year in the regular season. He's a five for them, is he not? Did they use him as a top four most nights? At the start of the year he played, he was on their top pairing. But when the playoffs. So last year in the regular season. He's a five for them, is he not? How far down is this guy?

When they won the Stanley Cup. Yeah, absolutely. He was a five. So he played 18-24 per game in the regular season. But the Leafs need him at a four. Yeah. So the question is, are the Leafs. In game seven, he played 16-27 in the playoffs. In game seven, he played 16-37. So the question is, are the Leafs...

In Game 7, he played 16. 15-27 in the playoffs. In Game 7, he played 16-37. And he made how much last year? $2 million? $2.5? And now as a $4 million player, he's got to be a top four. So how many more minutes can you squeeze out of him

without his level being dropped? And, you know, more importantly, are you going to get Oliver Ackman-Larsen in Vancouver or in Florida? Well, I think the fundamental difference there is Florida was a great structured team with good people ahead of him, so he wasn't taking the big matchups. And the second I see the way he's lined up right right now beside mccabe i don't love it you know for that very reason like i would love to see mccabe and benoit to me were awesome yeah i love them as a pair i love how physical they were

great sort of shutdown group but i maybe they look at their third pair and say we don't want ekman larson lilligren as a third pairimmons seems like no one even mentions this guy's name. Let's just assume they're going to waive him, I guess. $1.1 million one-way contract. I don't know if they are in that situation. They've got to alleviate some money

somewhere. Connor Dewar is... He's going to play, I think, maybe tomorrow. They might have to keep him... He may have to be hurt for a little longer. Yeah, I don't know if that serves any purpose. If he goes into the year on IR, he can't play for 10 games or 24 days.

Well, that's... I know we're getting off topic a little bit here, but there are other players that have stepped up, in my opinion, ahead of him. Dewar. Yes. Yeah, me too. Right?

Totally. So Nick Robertson's ahead of him. Yeah, for sure. Holmberg's ahead of him. I like Lawrence. Lawrence is ahead of him. Lorenz? Actually, you say it like Jennifer Lawrence.

It's Lawrence. Really? Yeah. I thought it was Lawrence. Me too. It's spelled that, you say it like Jennifer Lawrence. It's Lawrence. Really? Yeah. I thought it was Lawrence. Me too. It's spelled that way. It should be that way. All right.

I'm good by you. I believe you. One day on TV, they told me to say it like that. Okay, there you go. So, and I think he should start fourth line left wing. Doer. No. Oh.

Lawrence. Lawrence. Yeah. I like, Luke Fox had a good article on him. Did you happen to read that. No. Oh. Lawrence. Lawrence. Yeah. I like, Luke Fox had a good article on him. Did you happen to read that? No. He talked about how he's texted a picture of himself in a blue and white sweater to his dad and like, this is his lifelong dream.

He's wanting to be a Leaf. As they say, he has the passion. He is. He's passionate. I've got, I got Connor Dewar like below them. Yeah. So I, I think, I think it's not a stretch to think that he might be, uh,

not protected or on waivers. Yeah. Hmm. That makes sense. So do you need to put Timmons contract on waivers? It might be a possibility. I'd rather they do that. The doer,

if you've got to keep one of them, like, I don't know. They just don't seem to have a vision for Timmons. And I can't see Ruby being like, you know who I really like? So I think I like Oliver Ekman-Larsen a lot more than I liked Klingberg. Yeah.

Ekman-Larsen is long, and he can shoot it, and he can make plays. I mean, preseason, he's way up the ice sometimes. Let's face facts. The Leafs are like near the bottom of the league and offense from the back end they could use something he essentially is what a lot of people out there pretend lilligren could be this lilligren thing to thing is fascinating to me too he's making three million dollars for this season the next i don't know if you've watched them all in preseason but mid mid perfect drop looks a lot like

timothy lilligran yeah he doesn't do anything special but they like he's the right hand of shot i mean that is his superpower yeah this guy has been eaten off shooting right yes he got a great contract they gotta think behind the scenes they might be working on something. I got to think. It's not happening. Quit trying to make fetch happen. Quit trying to make low-ing happen. What I did hear is potentially a Jake McCabe extension

maybe coming maybe before the season starts. I heard talks were real good. Now, still maybe debatable on how much term and maybe that still might fluctuate to the aav but i'm thinking right now that he'd have no problem right now next season making 3030 million over six years. Six times five, huh? Yeah. Yeah.

5-2-5. I think he'd get 5-2-5 on the open market. What's he make now? Four. Four? They pay him two. Yeah. Oh, right, because it was like the double retention.

Yeah. So he's 30. He's flat. Oh, he turns because it was like the double retention. Yeah. So he's 30. He's flat. Oh, he turns 31 in 10 days. Just – He plays hard. He plays hard, and to me, in the last little while, I see leadership qualities.

And he's got some FU in him. Yeah, God, it's nice to see. Who did he absolutely destroy? Was it Witherspoon? Yeah, he's gotten... He's taken some dumb penalties now, I think, about it too. Once in a while, he lights somebody up, and it just adds such a great dynamic to the game.

They just don't have enough guys who's like... The threat of violence. Yeah, who just go squirrely at times. What do you say? Eyes roll back in their head? Yeah, like slot machines at Casino Rama. Big-time wire cross guy. Wires can cross.

I'd fight my mom to win another Stanley Cup. So you kind of glossed over Tanev, right? Where you said that, you know, he stays good. But I will say, having watched him in the preseason, like I don't think you can say how big of an upgrade he is over TJ Brody. Oh, it's not even close. Like not even close. It's not even close. Having him play on that top pairing on the right side,

it doesn't look like a grenade on his stick in the defensive zone. Yeah, he can handle the puck. He's made some plays where I'm like, oh, that is a breath of fresh air. I would tell you probably in the first two or three or four months that behind the scenes, Tanev will present himself more of a captain than Austin Matthews.

I think so, yeah. Really? Yeah. I think it's underrated. I think it's underrated. Tanev's a grown-up with kids and stuff. I think it's still underrated what an influence that guy has had

in an NHL dressing room, in Calgary, in Vancouver. When you've heard that about people, go ahead. Austin will, if he's smart, he'll really lean on this guy. I think that's where there's going to be tremendous value out of Tanev. I was going to say that they have had guys come in that you hear that about before, but it's usually old guys. It's usually veteran guys

who... Tam's not exactly a rookie. Yeah, he's not a spring chicken. He signed a four-year contract. This is as spring as his chicken's going to get. Is it six years? Yeah, because they needed the AAV down. Right, right, right. He uses his spring as his chicken's get.

I think we fans are going to fall in love with him quickly that was just the breath of fresh air to have him on the top pair and just a real like say what you will about the contract in the age or whatever but to have these next couple years of him he's just he's what happens too when you get older though it's he's got to be more selective on when he wants to block a shot with his teeth or Or his hand in the preseason. Or his hand. Guys, I can't do that.

No, but the smart ones, as they get older, they have to survive. Yeah. But give me Riley Tanev, McKay Benoit, Ekman Larson, Hawk and Paw in game one. Or Refai. No, game one, maybe. Yeah. I like Refai, though. He's my seventh defenseman. Refai. No, game one, maybe. Yeah. I like Refai, though. He's my seventh defenseman.

Refai? I like Refai, too. Yeah. There's something there. There's something there. Yeah, and if they see it, too, that's easy. Is he a right shot? God, someone will shoot right.

No, I don't think so. No, he's not. But he punched out Slavkovsky pretty good in that preseason game. He's got a little bit of bite to him. I like Refai. Yeah. So there you go. That was a nice touch.

Well, boys, we did another hour. We didn't talk about Shanianier and rogers thing so i guess we're gonna talk about tomorrow oh is eckman larson gonna get power play time is he gonna take over morgan spot you know the one thing that paul maurice told me was that he thinks he's as good as anybody when it comes to getting a shot through on a power play. That would mean he'd have to shoot it, which would be amazing from the point. And he does. He does. Well, I hope you like the same power play unit because that's what they're running out there today. It'll start that way because I think

Berube doesn't want to make waves, but I bet you Ackerman-Larsen's on there. Well, Pacioretty, how much power play time is he getting? Nick Robertson. Read my article on sportsnet.ca. You are not a fan of 67, eh? He scored 447 last year. What changed?

Did he get younger? He had a great offseason, buddy. Great summer. We all did. Well, I was here. You guys had a great summer. Don't go away. National hour coming up.

Jason Bukala turned into a real Kipper and Bourne star last year. In studio. In studio now. And he's had a busy summer too. We're going to get into that and so much more. National Hour coming up next.