Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Should Leafs Consider a 'Soft Sell'?

Episode Date: January 22, 2026

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Toronto Maple Leafs' overtime loss to the Detroit Red Wings. They discuss the Leafs' passive play in the third period, a tough look for Easton Cowan in overtime, Jake McCabe struggling with a larger workload, and Joseph Woll's bounce-back performance. Then, the guys debate whether the Leafs should consider a 'soft-sell.' Later, Nick, Justin and Sam dip into the Midweek Mailbag to answer your Leafs questions!The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, let's get her going here on the real Kipperman Bourne show. I'm a kiddie host, Justin Boren, Sammy McKee, Jake the Snake Shultz, Derek Brandale, Ethan Jaja, Gabor, Leaf Hour edition. We're live on Sportsnet 3.6Vee, 590, the fan, streaming always on Sportsnet Plus, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. All right, boys, there's a good buildup to Toronto and Detroit last night. Yep. And from a Leaf perspective, you're disappointed that they weren't able to win it in regulation,

how you look at the point, especially when you look at the standings. Probably doesn't make you that feel that great either, A Sammy. But pretty fun game to watch. It's not like the Leafs were cheated out of chances to win this hockey game. No, it was a good game. I think a frustrating game. You know, we talked about one of those typical ones, Sammy, Texas at one point there, that it just felt like they stopped playing.

And I don't know how accurate it was. It felt like they played for a point at one point, but you're getting into the third period. And it kind of felt like hanging on a little bit. And he got what you wished for. Yeah, it just felt like the last, I don't know, maybe they were good in the second period. But the third period really felt like,

I don't know what the shot attempts were or what the shots actually were in the last period. But it just really... 20 to 6, I think. Between the third period and overtime. Six nothing in overtime. Brutal. It really just...

I don't know if it's a... I don't know if it's a plan. They're trying to play shutdown hockey or it's just that a guy who was claimed on waivers in mid-December is leading them a nice time again. Yeah. I just don't know if it's personnel. I don't know what it is,

but it's just, it's happening every third period. They're running at a gas. Yeah, O.T, the record, they're seven and nine in overtime this year. And considering all the talent on the roster, kind of a bizarre set of outcomes there, why don't we check in with Craig Bureubi and have him tell us a little bit about their OT struggle? Clip one, please. Yeah, you know, there's, you know, I think more so you can work on it, but it's about video and what we're doing.

I mean, you know, he just got overpowered there at the end and they ended up scoring on it. Got overpowered there at the end. Kip, curious to get your thoughts on, you know, the Cow Insider moment there. Yeah, my thoughts are we shouldn't have our surprise faces on when a 20-year-old kid who just played junior hockey in London mere months ago gets overpowered in a critical moment in a hockey game.

Yeah. Yeah, and it was tough. We actually were kind of clipping Cowan stuff throughout the night. It's almost like he doesn't think he's, I don't know, like he's going to get leaned on. That's a big man in the NHL bearing down on you though. Yeah, but it's expected, J.B. It's expected.

You're learning. This is your, this is your year to make these mistakes. That's what rookies do. Make them in the HL. You know, like I don't know that the, listen, I'm not trying to be hard. on Cowan, but like, it's not, I don't think we get to hand wave away a free point because a guy's learning. Like, why is he in that spot? No problem. You're the general manager now.

Take him out of that spot and put who in? Well, and that is, I understand. He's the best you have, my friend. A lot of it is injury based too. Like, you just haven't had a full roster. So you, you live with those mistakes because you don't have anybody better. Well, I mean, you have better. I don't don't think Matthew Nyes played in overtime. You know, he could probably handle being leaned on a little bit. It's, I understand. I'm not talking about that specific moment now. I'm just talking about the generality of having a 20-year-old on your roster.

And then what are the expectations? What are, what can you live with, what you can't live with? But you cannot ever forget that this guy is 20 years old. and he is learning about time and space and what he can get away with and what he can't get away with. This is a whole new kettle of fish for this guy, the NHL. I know.

But Brad May said it best on our show on whatever day that was. It's like if you're in the lineup, you're playing in the NHL, you're playing professional sports, you're eligible to be judged. You're eligible to talk about it. Yeah, yeah. And you're eligible to lose your confidence. Yeah.

And you're eligible to be in a position where it affects your development. And he wouldn't be the first young kid to get burned at 2021, 22, because he was put in a position where he really didn't succeed, but you didn't have anything better, so you just kept shoving him out there. Well, and so I think that's fair to be critical of the Leafs, of the development of this kid.

He's been not really good, not effective for weeks now. I think he's been fine. I think I'm excited about what he could potentially be in two or three years. Totally. Two or three years. Listen, I am too, but they're in a spot right now where like, are you, or they've been in a spot? Was Quillen going to give you that much, first of all that.

First of all, if you're fully healthy, Willie Nealander's in there and Cowan can come out. That's now you got 12 forwards. I understand that Quillan's not your, you know, not East and Cowan in terms of what he's going to be, but at least he's, you know, four check hit, whatever. I just, I feel like they've messed up the handling of this kid this year because they haven't had enough guys behind him to help him out because now you're putting him in spots where that's devastating last night now I'm on here making him sound like I think he's a bad player I don't but I don't I think he's been handed too much to to to Kipper's point I think a big part of this

comes down to the roster construction yeah that you just if you're going to send out Eastern California like I mean he's been getting shifts in overtime all year it's not like this is a new thing for him right like he scored I think he scored two overtime winners this year or maybe He's definitely scored an overtime this winter this year. He's had shifts in overtime. So it's not like this is a new thing that they're doing without Willie. But it's just at this point of the season when these points are so crucial, and especially last night when it's just a divisional game,

the difference between going back six or like all the different things that are there, it's just a bit of a splash of a water in the face that you're like, you're leaning on it. You're supposed to be this in your cup contention window and you have a 20-year-old out there and ice, it's just like, oh, my God. So it sucks for him. But it was a bad play. We shouldn't be that surprised.

That's all. That's the whole point when you put a 20-year-old kid out of there. And I don't know. Is he played one game with the Marley's? Right? Did he get a game in? He got sent down. He played two games at the Marley's.

And then, hey, come up and contribute now in the greatest league in the world. There's going to be moments like this. And part of it is salary cap construction. You know, I know that when team, have looked at their who are up against the cap, you got to get entry level guys on your roster who can contribute. That's just like the way the math has to work

if you got guys who make double digit millions, you need some of these guys. And so yeah, you live with some of this, I guess, but you do. And how many coaches have we heard over the years that, oh, that guy, he just, he won't play the young kids. Won't play them. Yeah. Scared to play them. Well, that's why last night.

Of course. That's why. Yeah. that cost the team a point. But if you have a deeper team, a team that's solidified a playoff spot up until now, you live with that, right? You live with it as just a learning experience. And even though that they're on the outside looking at a playoff spot, leave fans need to live with it too, right?

I mean, what choice do you have? I mean, you know, what do we listen to coach? Let's listen to Craig Barabby clip to. on Easton Cowan. I thought he made some really good plays tonight. He does good things and there's things he has to do better. You know, it's a typical young player in the league. You know, there's plays where he's got to recognize there's nothing there and make a strong

play. And there's he, but he makes plays. He's made some good plays tonight again. And yeah, it's normal, young guy, where he's at? kind of get stronger, better decisions at times. So he's there. Yeah. He certainly sounds like he understands what he's dealing with.

Getting the sense of cutting the audio from Barubei. Sounds tired, boys. He does. Does he, like, it's just, I don't know, it just feels like this stretch of hockey and everybody's playing it, so I can't. I mean, but we follow the least. We talk about the lease every day.

Yeah. They play so much. much hockey and I'm not making excuses for them. I don't want to, like, they've got to be playing better. They need the energy from him, though. They need an injection of something. And it just now, I mean, I'm sure you saw today, Kipper, CJ reporting that Oliverickman Larson probably not going to be playing for a while.

Carlo tweets something apparently last night. Like, they are hanging on by a threat. Is Dakota Murmiss around? Is he alive? Where's Dakota? What's Rify up to? Boy, Henry Thrun. It's time for bringing the thrunder.

Yeah. It's not something that you could just hang your hat on solely because it's an Olympic year. It's crammed. This January has never been busier. It's insane. It's insane. Every team. So I don't know.

If we go to the Olympics, out of all those named players that they've sent out on the release a while ago, maybe a dozen of them are on the IR. Yeah, and it's going to get worse. There's still eight games to go per team or something. So it's funny, the Leaf's top five earning defensemen include Chris Tanev, Ekman Larson, and Brandon Carlo. Like you're not going to have three of them in what is unequivocally the biggest run of their season right now. This stretch leading up to the Olympics and so.

And that, like I said, I love everything about Jake McCabe. But if that guy's playing 28 minutes, 28. 28 minutes. If Jake McCabe is playing 20 minutes for your hockey club, you're not making the playoffs. No. Did he play 28 last night?

28-09. Oh, I assume a career high. I can't imagine. Minus 9 in his last six games, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. I love that player. I love the guy. Right.

Minus 9. Like he's another one. clamoring for the Olympic break. Well, what's crazy, too, is prior to that minus 9 stretch, he was the best plus minus guy on the team. He was the only guy with his head above water. I think he's still plus 14 or 15. Right, like he's their best.

Right. But you're right. It's like of late, he's getting his getting filled in. That's, and then you watch last night, arguably one of the best pair in the National Hockey League right now. And you mentioned Mo Cider on that game-winning. goal, but that's hard to compete. It's hard to compete against a team like that if those guys are out there 25 minutes

a night, controlling pace of play. It is becoming as you watch the evolution of the NHL and where the Leafs are falling behind the teams, you know, let's be frank, just last year they won the division. They were one of the top teams. They've been very good. And Detroit stunk. And now complete role reversal. And it's a top pair thing.

You look, that is where the Leafs are falling. behind. They have as much top end talent. They're scoring with everyone. They just, there's 12 teams, and I went over a list of top guys, but there's 12 teams, 15 teams that have a top pair that's like those guys play 28 minutes and love it. I have to say that they do still look

a lot like the Red Wings to me. Like they look. Yeah, they're no worse. I don't think they're better. I mean, they look like the Red Wings. But they just have Mo Sider, who's unbelievable, and they now have John Gibson, who's a combination of Hasick and Wa now. Yeah. Because it's just like he was unbelievable last night he looks that was a good goalie battle last night let me ask you this

you guys were good one more thing on mo sider yeah yeah just last night matthews made 40 great play it was either matthews just gonna score or the wings were that was the whole game to me yeah and he had one sort of semi-breakaway where mo cider caught him up was just like no no he can't do it yeah he's he's a stud anyway it's just a random question about gibson do you guys think that there's some gms watching him now in detroit being like Whoops, maybe it was Anaheim. Like Edmonton. Yeah, like Edmonton.

Did he not want to go there? That's a question. Was there something about him? He's American? Yeah, he was American. Not waving or something. Can you quickly look up the price that Detroit paid because I don't recall it being anything too crazy?

Clearly, Anaheim wanted to... Peter Marazick and two draft picks. What were the picks? They were... Peter Marazick and... A second. Fourth and a second. Who wouldn't have paid that?

I guess. Lots of people wouldn't pay it. A lot of people thought he had best before date. It was long ago. And he was on the downside. Well, you watch my mind. It's like, no wonder they win every night. Like, I mean, that guy, he was locked in.

Yeah, he was locked in. So was Wall. I'm not going to take it away from Wall, but he was amazing. I haven't watched a ton of Detroit, but he's been like this for a good stretch of the season. December 1st, I think he's won 16 of 18 games. They get that type of goal tending with that blue line. Yeah.

They could scare some teams. Definitely. That's interesting. Well, I think what really scares you. You guys were the panel, your panel last night, great job last night on the telecast. But a few on the panel say, like, they're going to fall off the cliff here. Yeah. I just think the reason they won't is they're going to add, right?

Like they're going to, you know, they have so much money. to spend so many picks, so many prospects, if all of a sudden they also have... I don't know. Cadry. Yeah, Cadry and Braden Schneider from the Rangers or something. Yeah. Jeez, that's a team, you know?

So they could be dangerous. Joe Wall? Yeah, amazing. Good for him. He bounced back after two bad ones. I think he said on the broadcast yesterday that it was the first time in his career that he had led in five plus goals and two straight starts.

And I think he said that. I think that sounds right. Yeah. And he bounced back. The coach said he was going to bounce back. He did bounce back. He looked awesome. So how do you feel about a Wednesday, Friday, Sunday afternoon?

Not great when we don't have all the D-Man on the team. Like you're going to go play Vegas and Colorado minus three of your top 4D. Your top pair is going to be Riley and Myers, followed by. Stetcher McCabe. Benoit Ben-Benning. Probably. Yeah, no, I know. Or Villeneuve or whoever the hell else run or whatever.

Whoever they want to call up the bullpen. He's licking his lips. He'll be for you tomorrow night or Sunday afternoon. Probably tomorrow night. I just, you know, three and five days feels like a lot. Tass wool, what do you think? I'm not a big fan of Joseph Wall playing both. Yeah.

I probably go, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. That's paid a lot more money to make this decision than me. Clip back. Before.

Yeah, a great response by him. I thought he was really good. You know, saves, made a lot of good saves, made good saves in their power play. Overall, he was, you know, really good and gave his chance to win tonight. I give him, for one thing. He's like, I know you want me to give a longer answer than that, but I just thought he was good. I don't have more. Yeah, the puck with the body in the way was good.

So maybe we can, like, I mean, we've been talking about the game last night, maybe a bigger picture conversation here. But I saw you today on the morning show. I saw some clips from or some quotes that you were talking about in the morning show today with, I think it's show Ali and Ben Ennis today. Yeah, it was. Like, there's no interest in quote unquote selling at the deadline. Zero.

The Toronto Maple Leafs? Zero. Well, then let me tell you something. They should buy now, well, they have time and don't fall out of a playoff spot. Like trade, make a trade today for a D-Mey. Today. I think today they could have Doug Hamilton. You think like that's...

Today they could have Doug Hamilton. Just pick up $18 million over the next two years on his contract. You just got to eat it. He will be at Scotia Bank Arena by 6 p.m. You say, we'll eat the whole contract. and they'll say we will bring them to you. And you will have them on the blue line. We'll even pay for the Uber.

So is the implication there that they won't retain at all? That's New Jersey's wish to not retain at all. And whoever blinks first can have them. I wonder if the Leafs can even do that. I guess if you do LTIR for some of these guys. Well, there's, LTIR is a great idea right now probably because you're missing 20, It's still up in the open with Chris Tanov on whether or not he has a chance to come back or not. They're avoiding surgery right now.

It doesn't help them. And does it? Well, if he starts getting better, if he starts feeling like he's getting better and it's healing, then there's a better chance for him to come back and play. Mm-hmm. I got to tell you, this feels like it's teetering badly. This. The one point, it's so funny, two points last night would have been okay.

No, one feels like a crisis. Even waking up today, looking at where they're at with this schedule coming up, with all of Regman Larson and Carlo, potentially being out for a couple games here. It's just, I don't think they should completely rule out a soft cell. Okay. Can I tell you something? I don't think they should completely rule it out.

I don't want to disrespect you. Do it. Disrespect me. That's what we do every day. Do it. The soft sell is the stupidest term I've heard all season. Okay. Explain to me, what the hell does a soft sell mean to you?

You aren't going anywhere and you have guys that are potential UFAs and you try to trade them off and then kind of reset because you still have good players and you just try to get some assets back. Let's back up for a second. Yeah. Did you say, you know you're not going anywhere? Yeah. Do you, like, even if they make the playoffs on the last day,

you think they're going anywhere? I'm okay with that. I do feel like that. I've been saying that for... What if you feel that way and the Leafs management, Brad Tree Living, feel that way? Yeah. What is a soft sell do for you? Well, I mean, what does it do for Brad Trilliving?

So you're saying at that point, you're just hard sell. Thank you. Thank you. Sell it all. Either you're going to dump. Okay. Or you're going to hang. in there.

If you tell me right now, a soft sell is that you get rid of Nick Robertson. McMahon Robertson Vaughn. Don't do it. McMahon Robertson. That's not a soft sell. That is taking a third of your forwards and dumping them. That's not soft. Okay.

To me, a soft sell would be also, no, I'm not proposing it at all. I'm saying it would be flipping those assets. and actually still getting something different, saying, okay, we're going to get rid of these expiring contracts, sell, sell, that's Lawton and it's McMahon. And then you get back your picks and you say, and now we're going to trade these picks for... You're not getting back what you gave up for Lotton.

No. Okay? No. So... Might have if you'd scored that penalty shot last night. Now, now put yourself in Edward Rogers' shoes or the ownership. Okay? And so, so...

Got be careful here. So last March, you paid a first rounder and a B plus prospect in Grebenkin. And you sell for less. And we all know our teams worse with Scott Lotton gone than it is today. For sure it is. Why do I want you to keep being my general manager? Yeah. Yeah.

So to your point. But this has been my fear all along that you don't want somebody at the helm who's looking to make things to save your job. That's the most horrifying spot you can be as a sports fan with a team where a general manager is like, I got to get this team in the eight seat or else I don't have a job. So I'm going to trade the banana peals we have left here to get in. I've been saying this since mid-November. I don't anticipate that either. I just anticipate pretty much what we see right now

with the exception of maybe you want to add a Luke Shen or flip Benoit for more cap space to bring in another underachieving money ball player that everybody else has quit on. But I'm going to give him an opportunity in March. That's what I see. But they're looking for scoring right now. Like, how are you going to get it? And you said it with Calgary.

Stop calling. Stop. Well, no, you don't stop calling. That's your job. Brett Tree Living doesn't call because he thinks he's going to get every player he calls upon. He loads himself with information. He wants to know what other teams are thinking about. He wants to stay in the loop.

That's why he's making calls. There should be a GM grocery store where you can post your players and what it'll cost to get them on sort of a communal website. But they're not bailing. They're not bailing. Okay. That is, you've made that part of it very clear. But my perspective on it is,

is that they, it feels they've got one of a possible four points to start this crucial homestand. Yeah. And now they have three games against three good teams. Two really good teams and one up-and-coming team that's going to look forward to come in here and beat you in the Buffalo Sabres. Okay?

It's just with the way they look right now and the injuries and the mojo, if they crap the bed before the Olympic break, okay? And I'm not saying they're going to. They could dig deep. Seven games left? Yeah. If they get like two wins out of those seven games and they're four or five points back, you can't consider it.

Look what the Bruins did last year. The Bruins traded Carlo to the Leafs and got a real player on the first round pick. and now, I don't know if you've checked the standings today, they're ahead of the Leafs. Like, by what? By a point. A point. So what?

Right. A point. They soft reset it. They have good players on their team. It's just, I'm game by game here. I'm week by week, but just be open to the fact that you might have to do it.

That's all. That's all. That's all. Like, but Kipp are saying there's no chance. And that scares me. I think that that tune would change. where they, listen, this Vegas and Colorado game, you play a whole weekend of hockey,

everyone gets chance to play two games in a game where everyone gets three points in this league, you fall behind, everyone gains three points on you. It could look very different. You have to win one of these two games. One of these two, you even have. They can't go 0 for seven. Well, they're not going to go over seven.

I'm not saying that. So out of 14 points, you get seven or eight, right? And you're still two weeks from now, hanging within three. Three points. Teddy KGB. Yeah. They're not, they're not going to,

they're not going to make that hard decision of, what's the number? We're unloading everybody. Can I tell you what's not going to go well for them as a team, as an organization? If they hang on to these guys and they walk and at the deadline, what they did was trade for Luke Shen and they missed the playoffs. That's going to be tough.

That's going to be really tough to survive. But you know that. I, I would believe that Brad Tree Living knows that... In that scenario. In this scenario, he knows what's waiting for him if they miss. Boo. That's tough.

But like, you think it's... You don't think there's any world where they miss. And he sits down with whoever the powers that be. And they're like, look at what we went through this year. I lost my top defenseman and shut down defenseman and Chris Tannav. Matthews wasn't himself. he was hurt. Kneelander was out.

Like, there's a world to me. It would be the first time in history that a GM would play the injury card. And it wouldn't be invalid. It's affected. I think a lot of teams are dealing with injuries. We saw Minnesota coming here on Monday missing their whole top line and still skate the league set of the rink. So it's tough when everybody's hurt.

But at the same time. I don't have a crystal ball. So I don't know. You know, there's always the possibility that they could look at, at losing Willie at a critical time and now OEL at a critical time. And I will say, you know. Cold Matthews for 30 games. Like there's so many things that you can look at,

never having stolars and wall ever this season together at the same time. You know, we're talking about this after last night's game and suddenly today feels more dire than it did two days ago. They played pretty well for long stretches the game. I thought they were the better team in the second period last. night. Some of the underlying numbers like their performance fine last night. It's just, you know, the runway is so short.

That's it. That's it. If they, 32 games. If they have been playing close to what they've played pre-Christmas break, whatever happened here, if they've been playing close to how they've looked for the whole season like that. Yeah.

We'd be talking about the same thing. Who were they playing in the first round? Two more wins. That's all it would take. And we'd be like, yeah. But they didn't have those. And it just, I want, I don't want to. come across as Mr. Sell, Sell, Sell, Sell, okay?

I want them to be in the playoffs. I want them to be good. I care about this team. I don't want this sort of quote-unquote era to be over. Okay. I want to make that very clear. But I want... I know. You're trying to be practical too. But I want the management to realize here that this team kind of stinks right now and that they're missing a bunch of guys and it's teetering. It's just really hard having followed the Islanders for years and being like, God, they're stagnant, they're old, they're tired. And one summer later, I know they won a draft lottery, but it's also the move they made with Dobson.

It just feels like you got guys on the way. It's exciting again. Like, it doesn't have to take too long. The Shaver thing, separate from that. That helped. Yeah, but they were going to pick a ninth. They weren't picking, you know, they were going to get a good player. God, Shaver helped it.

Oh, my God. Get them on Canada. That's what you talk about with the top pairing with, sorry, Red Wing's top pairing of Sider. Yeah, Evanson and Mo. We're talking about. the Leafs about how they don't have that, you know, you get that.

You suck for 10 years. You're a bad team out of the playoffs that picks high and you pick one of those and then you have them their whole career. That's how you get one. The issue for the Leafs is like, I don't know where Boston was last year when they unloaded Carlo and Marchand in terms of their asset management. But this is, I'm pretty sure it was better than where the Leafs are today. Right?

They had more. So they, they, I don't know, in terms of the general manager, Don Sweeney was there. And a lot of people thought he was done. Yep. And he got a vote of confidence to the point where he could go and get rid of Brad Marshand, and it wouldn't cost him his job. I don't know if Brad's looking for that, wants that. I'm sure he'd love it.

But I don't think either Keith. Pelley or ownership with the Rogers group will give them that right now. So it's tough. It's tough to do what you're talking about sometimes when, you know, your job's on the line. And I totally understand that. And I know how hard it would be to be a general manager in this market. And you're trying to appease a bunch of different people. But at the same time, boys, being a general manager is hard.

And you get paid millions of dollars to make hard to make hard to sit. So I just hope they'd be careful. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. Just be careful. Don't enter a decade of darkness. To, you know, spend your first round picture trying to get NASM. It might not be a decade, but it could be three or four years.

Sure. I watched the Canucks. I mean, they won last night. Congratulations. I mean, I watched some of those games they're playing. I'm like, oh, my God. I'm not ready for this, please. Like, we're not even going to have a show if they're going to get rid of our show.

The Grinch song, Stank, Stunk. Whether they were Stanley Cup. winners or in the basement, they're not getting rid of us. Careful what you wish for. Easy. Easy, easy, Harper. All right. Okay.

Hey, before we go, Scott Lotton, shoot, penalty shot. I actually, I liked him trying something. I know everyone's going to hate it, but I like that he actually tried to show a little skill because he has it. He said he was too tired. You want to play the clip? Let's play the clip. It's a funny clip.

Scott Lotton on his penalty shot, clip one. Did you consider going full clapper on the penalty shot? I was too tired. I should have faked a broken stick and let Matthews go or something. That's good. I tell you what, though, if by chance. This is the worst call of all time. Well, first of all, if you are tired, just wait it out.

Broken stick, shoe lace, whatever the case is, buy as much time as you want. Yeah. He's trying to get back to the forehand, just loses the handle. I think the highlight of the night for me was the line by Chris Cuthbert where they were on the penalty kill when that happened and he said he looked like he was still trying to kill the penalty on the way that he just rag in the pocket.

That's really good. It was like, you know, he wasn't trying to be. If you would have had money on it, would you have bet it on a clapper? I don't know. I thought there's a chance, but I think everyone knows it's coming. The move, if I was him,

which I am very far from him. Fake the clapper and go around. I would have gone hard, hard in, fake clapper cut to the back. There is nothing worse than this conversation. What I would have done? Why not? If he would have happened to have pulled off a clapper, though, the building would have gone mental. You know, the good thing about missing the clapper is you just hit the goal in the head or something, too.

There's other fun outcomes. But then they still would have won the game if you got Gibson out of there. That's right. Why? I feel like I'm talking about it too much about. Why do these guys go so slow? Do you think it's because they're bad at hockey? He's not that guy, though.

The first thing I said was, I appreciate him trying something new, but you're not that guy that I watched on that penalty shot. He wants to show you that eyes. You want to be Oswaldi there for a second. You're a lot of guys in my eyes, but that guy, you are not. He was a first rounder junior score

who wants to remind people, I can be that guy. And he said in his room, he's like, ah, I've done that move before. Yeah. Like, yeah, probably against the Niagara ice dogs. I'm guessing in practice, it works for him. That's what happens, right?

You do this stuff in practice a million times. You're like, God, this is working for me at a high rate. And the difference between a breakaway and a penalty shot, I mean, you can't even. Yeah. What did you like on the clip on Coach Bruby's top line? What did I put in there? Yeah. On his top line.

I don't even know how that is. Let's play it. Clip three. The dealer's choice. Oh, it was on the bottom. No, you know what it is. It's not. his top line. It's on the fourth line. Play it.

Clip three. He's like, I'm not playing. He's getting it. All right. Let's go to break anyway. Okay. They just mentioned that. I mean, they got us a goal, but just they played against one of those top lines most of the night and did a good job against them and didn't give much up and checked well, did what they do,

kill penalties. So they were good. Start of the game. 15 minutes. The the one that bothered me last night was the late late goal by Detroit in the first period to tie 1-1. Yeah.

And you had talked prior to that on our show and probably in the pregame. They're not good. Starters, Detroit, they don't score in the first period. Getting out of the first period up 1-0 compared to 1-1. And what bothered me most about giving up this goal is it came off a face-off deep in Detroit's zone. And Matthews. 30 seconds left in the period. and McMahon got caught and they

Detroit ended up with a 180 foot 3 on 2. Yeah. And that's, that can't happen. Not, can happen no way against your top line. No, it wasn't good. Agreed. No argument for me. Okay, let's take a quick break, Sammy.

Mailbag, baby. Plenty still to go on the real Kipper and Bourne show. We got Brian Lawton at the top of the hour. Yeah. Dana St. Clair is going to stop by also in hour two on our national program. Dana, of course, does a terrific job with dealing with the mental aspect of the game. Mental wellness. We'll ask her about Allmark, of course, the hot button topic still coming out of Ottawa.

So plenty to look forward to. But most of all, we'll focus on Sammy's midweek. mailbag. I'm going to get you a uniform when this thing comes up. What do you mean? Like a mailbag,

uniform. Like a letter carry? Like a postal guy. Like your, mail time? Mail time? Who's the guy in Seinfeld? PTI.

Hey, who's a Seinfeld's guy? Oh, Newman. Newman. You're on Newman on Mailbag. All right, more when we return after these words. Everything you need to know about the Raptors, and the biggest stories around the NBA.

Smith and Jones. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the program. Real Kipprin' Born show, Leaf Hour Edition. Okay. Okay. For God's sake.

No, no, no. Okay. Let me just. Hold on a second here. Just let him go. Give me two seconds here. Okay. So I came in a little late.

A little late. still show time. Two minutes to showtime. Yep. And I don't know what the camera can pick up on our show, but I got a little, like, cut on my chin. He got zips, kid. So I sit down.

These guys, of course, you know, all three of us, we're not allowed to talk in general before our show. You're buried in your computer. You're buried in your phone. And I'm like, just don't say anything. Just start the show. And then I'm starting the show. And then I'm like, five minutes in, seven minutes in.

I'm like, oh, man, these guys, they don't notice it. It's perfect. I'm going to get away with, you know, getting stitched up. And they're not, they can't even see it. Then we go to commercial break and then 10, two seconds after, you know, we go to break here, you guys, what happened? I'm like, what were you, where are you? looking at. Oh my God. What were you guys looking at for 25 minutes? I'll tell you my exact line

of thought here. Yeah. Is that last week, you suffered from vertigo. Yeah. And I didn't want, like, I don't know, maybe you passed out and fell on your face and were embarrassed about it, or I didn't know your wife punch in the mouth. I, you know. Which could happen. Not ruling it out. I didn't know if we, if it was green light, red light, and hadn't talk to you before the show. So it's what happened. First of all, you guys even come in with a band-aid. It's green light.

You don't ever think that I'm not calling you out on the show if I see anything remotely like this. Skate. My Thursday morning skate. Okay. My Patty throws across ice. Me and Marty go to put sticks at the same time, and it just comes right in.

chest right in the mouth. And I'm like, oh, do I have to be in a dentist chair now for the next little while? But blood like a stuck pig. Yeah, a lot of blood. A lot of blood. Yeah, you get it down there. It leads forever. That a boy.

Not kind of, you know, pat myself on the bat. Yeah. Finish the game. Finish the game. Game winning goal. Oh, my God. Yeah. And then where'd you go?

Finish the game. Well, I made a call to a doctor. Is he going to the show for the time? No, no, no, not that doctor. Doctor. And eight stitches later, I'm good to go. Oh, my God. This is how the elites live.

The doctor came to his house for a house call. How's your lip? Everything's a hurt. No. Oh, you're okay? Awful. Yeah, it feels bad. And the swelling's down, I think.

I will say this about you, and I don't know what people at home appreciate it enough. you show up. We've done this show together for this is, whatever it is, year five. You don't like missing shows. You don't like being late. You show up and you do the work every day. It's an admirable quality.

God, you're making me blush. It's a great quality. We all do. It's how it was out. Like, God, it's 340. What's going on? Yeah, I like to get here earlier and stare you guys down for a little while,

making nervous about things I may say. Maybe a lot more nervous when you didn't. Yeah. What are you going to say? I was just going to say, I don't know. Like, we had a couple of guests on yesterday. I think I pissed them off. I'm like, maybe this is karma.

I actually honestly, you know, during the first segment, I was like, do you run into drapes? Getsy put him in a call? No, Getsy and I are good now. We're good. We're all good. Everybody loves Kipper again. Beautiful.

Beautiful. Let's not use that blanket phrasing yet. All right. It's from Leafs Ben on Twitter. So the Leafs got five of eight points on that last road trip. How many points at a 14 do they need before the Olympic break? Eight. That's the floor.

Eight to me would keep them in the hunt, but... Nine, nine, nine would be a good one. I think nine's the number. Nine you might be in the final wild card spot hanging around. There is some soft games after the two toughies here. Not nine, like with beating Buffalo. Right. Not nine without Buffalo.

That team you cannot give up any points to. That's the team you're chasing. You're now nine points behind the Red Wings with 30 games to go. Oh, they gone. Yeah. Like, if you, I mean, if you lose these two games, okay, coming out this weekend, which is very possible, got to beat Buffalo. And then you have Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary, three in a row.

Seattle, Vancouver. There's your eight points right there. Buffalo, Seattle, Vancouver, Calgary. They can lose both of these and still have a chance. I mean, I don't. Got to get red hot. Well, I mean, if they win four in a row, four in a row going into Edmonton is the goal,

if they lose these two. You know what, you know what's like clear now is that even a week, two weeks ago, we were like everybody's in it, right? It felt like everybody was in it. But now you got clearly six, eight teams where, you can't lose to them. And if you do, it's like it feels twice as bad now.

When you, like Washington last night, you're in a playoff spot. You can't lose to Vancouver. Vancouver is the worst team. That's devastating. This devastating. How about even Philly? Not that they really want to be a playoff team,

but they had that Garnet Hathaway empty netter on a stick to lock up the two points and they ended up. You know what they say, never go full Patrick Stefan. Yeah, they do say that. This is from P.K. Bruban. Will the Leafs team doctors attend to me when I have hypothermia at the outdoor practice this weekend?

Yeah. They moved it in. They moved it inside. They moved it inside. Is it still open to the public? Yep. Yeah, but it's at MasterCard or not MasterCard. Board Performance Center now.

And you got some wrestlers there. It's going to be a bit of a... I'm sure our boy. Edge. No. Not Edge anymore. No, not the edge. Oh, crap.

Cope? Cope? Cope. Cope. His name's Adam Cope. Thanks, Jake. But I meant like... Adam, like, he's out doing movie stuff now. He's going to be a big movie star. Okay, because that's what those wrestlers do. He's the next rock. Yeah. He's a stud. But... Our guy. Always listens to our show. I love him. Honestly, one of the most stars struck I've ever been is when he followed me on Twitter and then he, like, DM me.

He was like, what? Like, this guy. Big shout out to our buddy Adam. Okay, this is an interesting one. This is from Spencer Rivers. Cowboy is a hot topic right now for obvious reasons. But can we stop with this narrative of him being young and immature every time his performance is down?

Celebrini leads the charge of tons of players way younger than him. Okay. Stop it with the comparables to 19 and 20-year-olds. Okay. From a generational kind of talent that comes around once every 10 years to a first round pick who's got some good upside. Okay. I thought that was interesting perspective.

I think that does void the comparison. Celebrini's a different animal. This is from Leas Ried Along on X. If you're not rebuilding, why wouldn't you re-sign McMahon, Lott, and Stetcher? If you're middling again next day, you should have these players available with term and a much higher price of the deadline.

When you don't have the assets, the Leif's need to learn to keep slash build them. I would say that I'm not saying it's... One of the ways you get in trouble with your salary cap is when you overpay middling to bottom end players

in your roster, when you overpay the middle guy. You know, there's... You rarely get in trouble when you give a star player too much money unless you give four star players too much money and the salary cap stops going up at the exact same time.

But rarely is that a person. Is that... Are you speaking from experience? Leaves are going to resign with Ben. Oh, you think so? Oh, yeah. Really? Yes.

You're saying that pretty definitive. Yes. Like Sue? Four years, 18 million. I don't know. Whatever. I'm guessing. I'm not saying what I'd.

Do it tomorrow. I heard some things. Do it next month. Do it this summer. But you can't, you can't find those guys. What about? No, you can't.

You can't. No. No, he's a power forward who's got tremendous upside. And yes, there might be a consistency issue. But you can't go out there and replace

a guy that can skate like Not for nothing. That size, that shot, and you just hope and pray as early as next season, it all comes together. But you cannot let him walk out the door. Kippur, he's not 24. He's 31? You need players, Sammy. He's 30.

Yeah, he's 30. I think he's almost... He's turning 30, if not 30. He's currently 29. He's turning 30. A little younger than I thought. Still, I don't know. He kind of is what he is.

I'd just be afraid to get him. The other thing, too, is. the cap is going up. So whatever you had in your mind on four or five million dollar players is now like... Yeah, he's like a three, he's like a three five guy to me

that with the cap going up, I'm like, all right, he's a four guy. Yes, exactly. The three to four now is four to five and a half. All right. One more here and we went the whole hour without Martiner,

but I'm going to do it right now. Jeremy from New Zealand, formerly of Meyford. So I guess our boy, Jeremy and Meiford, moved to New Zealand. Oh, that's quite a move. Hey, bud, I may believe mail by question. If the Leafs don't make the playoffs, despite all the reasons why, do you think most fans will boil it down to Mitch not being there because of that?

Do you think Bradshaw living's job will be at risk because of how that asset was handled? I don't think it would be looked at as just that. They were a hundred and eight point team. You know, they had a lot of good going for them, but it certainly has a factor. I'm not hanging. Brad Tree Living on Marner. The making of

Marner leaving was years in the making. So would Brendan Shanahan done a few things differently when he gets his next job in New Jersey or wherever else there's opportunities to just think of what Brendan Chanahan has learned

in the last 10 years about giving contracts up to young players or no move contract or, you know, all of it. Like, incredible, incredible learning experience. And it's not, it's not, that's not on Brad. It's fair. But I think maybe Jeremy from New Zealand slash Meiford was more alluding to the fact that

I think there will be a section of the fan base will be like, oh, lose Margar, you can't make the playoffs. I think it would actually come a lot more from outside the fan base. I think, I think, I think fans of other team will be like, ran him out of town and ran yourself out of the playoffs like i think that'll be a common narrative's going to be around for a few years yeah i know uh while we were talking about that i looked up how long does it take to heal a lacerated kidney just trying to figure out who in this team the team is missing and forgot about dakota joshua yeah uh yeah he was playing well too yeah he's starting

to find it a little bit big body um few weeks for minor tears several months for long severe injuries mild cases two to six weeks strict activity restrictions for one to three months C.C. said on the broadcast yesterday that he had ran into Dakota Joshua and that he told him that he might be back on the ice pretty soon. So that's encouraging. Yeah. That's encouraging. Usually when you're on the ice, 10 days to two weeks. Yeah.

So there's a chance they could see him this year still, which would certainly be helpful. It's just the timing of the injury rash here is really bad. Come on, Willie. Well, I'm proud of us, boys. We'll save the martyr for tomorrow. I got nothing new to say. Okay. Oh, my gosh.

We're doing it again tomorrow? Oh, maybe it'd be better. Oh, he gets people what they want. He goes in the car going to get stitches. He'll be doing it all day tomorrow too. Oh, my God. Give bunk credit, man. Maybe we get bunk.

Maybe we get bunk. Maybe we get him for five or ten minutes. You should get bunk. I'd like to straighten them out a little bit. No, I'm not doing that. Oh, yeah. No, yeah, you may. We got the lease line tomorrow.

Oh, yeah, call the leaf line. 416, 413, 4141. All right. Top of the hour, Brian Lawton, former NHLLL player and Dana Sinclair, Dr. Dana Sinclair. More when we return. Don't go away.