Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Snake Eyes

Episode Date: February 28, 2024

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee start with the anniversary of Sidney Crosby's Golden Goal and where they were during the special moment. Then, into the Leafs' streak-breaking loss to the Golden Knights last night - the team's play when they're down, Tavares' rare signs of frustration as he adjusts to his new role, Keefe getting tossed and concerning play from the all-left-handed d-corps. Finally, Rangers' MSG reporter Steve Valiquette (32:51) weighs in on Matt Rempe's gauntlet, why he needs to exercise more restraint and breaks down Ilya Samsonov's strengths and weaknesses through this recent stretch.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

we are back the real kipper and born show the kiprios justin born sammy mckee derrick brandeo jen rolnick with you this hour. Leaf edition of our show. We are live on Sportsnet 590, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet Plus from 4 to 6 as always. And if you don't catch us live, find us on your favorite podcast download. My favorite hockey anniversary of the year, every year, today. 14 years ago today, Sidney Crosby shot it into the net, boys,

in overtime against the United States of America. And we haven't seen it since. Well, no, we did. We did it in 2014. We saw it. No, I mean the highlights. No one's ever allowed to see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that.

Okay, yeah, yeah. And I had by far the best seat in the house. Where were you like i want to say eight rows up on a hydraulic uh set wow so you were doing the Olympics yeah so you were doing the post game yeah bob mckenzie darren pang and myself were the panel. It was cross. For every game. I do remember that now. Three a day. Yeah.

That's a lot of games. That's a lot of hockey. So you're like, here's Slovakia. All the uniforms were looking the same color. Yeah. By the end of it. That's a lot of hockey. Except that game.

And I will ask how, I mean, there's no cheering in the press box, but. Oh, yeah. We're all excited. Yeah. For sure. Because no one was going to... Oh, yeah, we were all excited. Yeah. For sure, because no one was going to throw things at us after we left the building. Everybody was just drunk and cheering. Yeah.

Which made it a very nice walk back to the... Did you guys openly celebrate? No, I don't remember it that way. No, it's not like we jumped in a car and waved a flag. No, I meant like in the moment. Yeah. Were you like, let's go? Yeah, as Canadians.

Okay. Absolutely. All right. Yeah. I celebrated. What time of day was that at? Do you remember? Yeah, it was afternoon game.

It was the last event of the Olympics, right? But it would have been, I think it would have been 4 Eastern. It would have been, yeah, somewhere late afternoon. Yeah. I just remember having to leave the bar and write an article for the score at the time. About it? Oh, yeah.

Which, the coherence of which could be debated to this day. I'd actually like to read that one on air, if you could dig that up. The score nuked everything. I don't think anything ever exists anymore. And 14 years. 14 years. Today.

Iggy. Wow. And the funny thing about that is, he was not very good in that tournament up until then. Who's that? Sid. It was like one of the main talking points in that tournament is that he hadn't had a very good tournament. He hadn't scored much.

I think his only goal was against Switzerland leading up until then. Nice giving goal. Yeah. And he had, he was two, two, three feet off the goal line and, and went a five hole on Ryan Miller. A little bit of Patrick Kane Stanley Cup winner to it, right? Except we knew this went in. Yeah.

It was in our end too. And do you remember right after that, Ron Wilson was the coach of the Leafs at the time. It was a complicated time as a Leaf fan because Brian Burke was the general manager of the United States and Ron Wilson was the coach. And like in his first media availability, he was like, wow, you know, if your ref had got out of the way, he and Ron Wilson was the coach. And in his first media availability, he was like, well, you know,

if your ref hadn't got out of the way, he was immediately hammering the official. Oh, yeah, yeah. He was so sour about it. No, you just get annoyed. Can't go leave the crowd chanted by Ron Wilson. Yeah, I mean, it was great. It was one of the best days of my life, for sure.

We had a good show today in terms of guests. Steve Alliquette, of course, will join us at, what, 4.30? 4.35, yeah. We'll discuss more on the Leafs goaltending scenario and what's out there in terms of the marketplace. And Rempe and Mania continues tonight at Madison Square Garden, too. Rempe, we'll get his thoughts on that as well. That's quite the story uh

that took the league by storm i think in the last week yeah so we'll see how that progresses with valley and then in the next hour cody hodgson remember first pick uh of nashville in 2016 i think he went 10th overall no that was in oh it, oh, it was 2016. Oh, Vancouver. He retired. He retired. That's right. He retired. Yeah. See, I should know that because I.

Your boys. I skated with him all year and I got him back into pro hockey. Yeah, he was drafted 10th in 08 and Kip did get him back into pro hockey. And he had the record. That's right. Vaguely. 08 and then shut it down in 2016. And now he's back again, scoring goals for Milwaukee.

And we're going to have him on the show at the top of the hour. We are. I'm looking forward to that as well. In the meantime, the Leafs seven game winning streak gets shut down. And one of our lasting thoughts on yesterday's show was the West Coast trip and the adjustment, and then I watched the first period, and I'm totally on board with Sheldon talking about it being as one of the better periods from the Leafs all year.

You look at chances both ways. They dominated. I got a total vibe of the stretch of hockey that we've seen over two weeks is continuing. And then the second and the third period was like a thud. It all came unglued, didn't it? Yeah, but they did come out with a pretty good effort. Weren't able to put one in the net, which, you know, often lets the other team hang around and get that belief a little bit. But yeah, start to say the least why don't we start with

sheldon do his overview of the game and then we can launch into it let's go our first clippers kippers clipper of the day loved our start in fact i thought it was our best start of the season thought it was better than any start we had when we were on the road. We were really going. Guys were flying. Puck was moving well. Our pace was outstanding. We had great scoring chances. Didn't score. Line changes, shift flank, like everything that you wanted in the start of the game.

I thought we were tremendous there. Puck didn't fall for us. And I thought because it was going so well, I thought we started to overdo it. I thought we got too comfortable in the game. You can't get comfortable against this team. They're just too good defensively, and I thought we got cute with it. I really slowed our game down and allowed them to kind of settle in, and then it's a pretty even game from there until we make a mistake

and they get the lead, and then now the game, you've got to kind of open it up and we make a mistake. They get the lead and now the game, you've got to open up and chase it a bit. To me, very obvious here, but the moment of the game, they lost the game, was the Tavares turnover in the corner.

After they had finally got the momentum back, Bertuzzi scored. It's funny how now Bertuzzi's the only one who can score. He never can score. He's the only one who can score. It's like he went from he never can score to he's the only one who scores now. But that turnover by Tavares that leads to the shot from the slot by Carlson just felt like it broke them,

and they had nothing left after that one. That's how it felt to me. Yeah. You know, I feel like the goal, the score of the barbershop one to make it 1-0 is very indicative of, it's just something the Leafs do where they get offensively obsessed and they start

to creep in and think offense and once it's not going in, right, they push and they get chances everything becomes like, how are we going to get this next goal? And they forget the other team's allowed to play too. And you watch that goal, Domi's creeping and Nylander's creeping Deer coming down. Barbershop's just like, I'm wide open. Yeah, and

that happened again. A Nylander break turned into a breakaway against for Amadio. And, you know, we've just seen that over the years at the Leafs where they just get, like, focused on, no, it's not going in. How do we score? And then the other way. Okay, you went Tavares, you went defense. So where do we go on our next clip?

What do you want? Defense? Yeah, let's go with that. Or on JT? The JT one's very short because it's asked about if um he's feeling hurt or if there's something going on with him so we can play that clip and you can hear his answer if you want to do that on tavares let's go yeah the injury is your what's your sense of where he's at physically a bit discomfort at times no i don't i don't sense

that i think he's he's fine there you go he's fine eh He's fine. There you go. He's fine, eh? He's fine. Not hearing it. Okay, let's stay on Tavares for a split second here because we've watched JT throughout his career with the Islanders and five seasons with the Leafs. Yep.

And I've never seen him more animated than last night with the reaction off of the goal that you just spoke of or coming to the bench and slamming his stick. I don't know if I've ever seen him do that. No, I haven't. Has anybody? There's like maybe the odd one-off, but you're right. There's not many games where he's consistently frustrated.

So is that just in a a single play or is that i've been demoted and i'm no longer on the power play i think they work hand in hand kip you know i don't think you i don't think suddenly he has a moment or two where he's so frustrated that he just has a whole night like that. Like, I think it's related to he hadn't been scoring. He had been feeling. I know he had more recently after they made these changes, but he hadn't for a long stretch. And then you start to feel your importance on the team

slip away a little bit, right? Like, you know, whether it's ice time, it's line mates, it's opportunity, however you want to look at it. And then it's going worse. And by line mates, it's opportunity, however you want to look at it, and then it's going worse. And by the way, players like farther down the lineup, like, you know, I would have experienced, it's hard to produce from the third line when you're not on the first power play unit.

It gets harder when you're in those spots. So a cumulative frustration for me. Yeah, I don't know if he knows himself as a hockey player from the moment he put on skates to not being the guy that is supposed to produce not to be looked at to me to me it would feel like a fish out of water for him right now that he's asked to do something that has never been asked from him in his entire life of being a hockey player and that is uh don't worry about scoring right now just make good sound defensive plays and don't cheat for offense

and we're good you know part of it could be that he wants to show that he understands that role and he can play it well and be the reliable guy. And so when he makes a mistake like that, it hurts even more because he's like, ah, you know, I'm supposed to be doing this one thing and that's not working. So you've mentioned it before multiple times. You said about him putting on skates and being expected to produce.

It's not even just the expectations. Every team he's been on, he's not been one of the, if he's not the best player, he's the second best player on every single team he's ever been on in his entire life. And that's just not, he's not the fifth best player on this team right now like it's just it's it looks a lot different for him yeah i'm sure it's tough to come to grips with self-identity issues and then like you know if you've won the cup and taken a

lower role or something you might be able to be like all right i've played different parts i've done different things whatever but this this is unique for him in his career so yeah all eyes on him adjusting and we've heard from sheldon talk about his kind of new role and john's gonna do whatever it takes for the team to win and you know john understands and john's this and john's that john's in there going hold on for a second i don't want to be that john's gonna what next you know what's going on long-term ir come up with a sore back no you know it's hard now it's like well i'm just sitting there going you just played a team that's lost mark stone for the end of the season and now put themselves in a position to go get Gensel.

What just happened on this show? Okay. Is he against the Vegas? Dial it back. Okay, all right. Let's backtrack. Let's backtrack. I have no information to suggest that Mark Stone's situation isn't legit.

Okay. Like a last rated spleen? That seems legit. But there is something comforting to know now you have the freedom to go get maybe an eight or nine million dollar player. Right. Definitely. Yes.

I see. I'm picking up what you're putting down there. That's all. It would work. That's all. Do you think that would happen? What's that? It's fine.

He's fine. He's fine. Okay. He's fine. So he's all. Do you think that would happen? What's that? Tavares is fine. He's fine. He's fine. Okay. He's fine. So he's not. Does his appendix hurt him or something? Would it change the trade deadline between now and March 8th if Tavares came down with a sore back?

Yes. Oh, my God, Kipper. But. What's going on here? Unless you think that might happen. Do you think this is going to happen? No, I don't think it's going to happen. Okay, okay, okay. I absolutely don't.

Okay. But if you're in the mindset of John would do whatever it takes to help the team win, then. I mean, he would be really fresh coming back after 25 games. Yeah. Listen, I'm on board with that plan if'm on board to execute it yeah if he's sore he's not he's 34 years old there's a lot of wear and tear you can find any legitimacy to shut a guy down for a little while you know what's way more likely to happen than that is that they put him back on the second line of willie nylander back on the power play and he plays more ice time

that's way more likely to happen and just for the record here this isn't uh this isn't me pointing a finger at vegas or the toronto maple leafs this is me pointing a finger at the system well i mean that's that's left it wide open for this crap to happen yes do it if it's a possibility do it it's not even people like yeah if he ain't cheating you're not trying or whatever it's like not even cheating anymore it's like it's march the trade deadline is so late was it march 8th and the season ends april 15th or something you gotta go five weeks without a guy teams do it it's just it's turned into like the luxury tax for the nba they've used it as like the yes for the it's the luxury tax and you go above it for the playoffs. Yeah. Anyways. Get a lot of texts here about...

Can I read this text? Please. After all the mistakes last night, Morgan Riley is minus four, and we blame John Tavares for the loss? Well, we're not blaming John Tavares. I know. Who blamed John Tavares?

It's just, we're talking about Tavares. I know. I know. I'm just saying. Now, the Riley-Brody duo was... Can I just... Okay, sorry. Just one more touch on John Tavares.

Yeah, please. And to the point where this guy's... I'm with you sometimes. You got to look at a bigger picture. The Leafs are down 2-1. They get the Bertuzzi goal. Right? Yeah.

And I'm thinking worst case scenario, you're getting out of the period down 2-1. Mm-hmm. Then Sheldon goes and he puts Tavares on a line with Matthews and Marner. Mm-hmm. Why? Because he wants to tie it 2-2. Right.

Okay. Okay. And yet you go down 3-1. Mm-hmm. Like, for me, that's sheldon chasing it right and i i didn't i didn't think it was the right time for him to now load up and try to get that second goal before the end of 40 minutes i you know i can't that makes no sense to me kip what you're talking about like to me it's like there you're better with tavarez than no you're not on the ice no you're not no you're not and that goal proved it tavarez had where was tavarez he's a

left winger he's in the he's playing the result he's better than matthew no he's not i'm putting holmberg in there a big strong guy i'm getting out of the period down to one and regrouping i'm not trying to tie the score you think holmberg is a better player than John Tavares? In his own zone? 100% on the left wing. So you're defending a 2-1 trail? Like, what's the plan here? You're trying to catch up. I don't want to give up the third goal.

I'm not trying to chase a goal. That's playing the result to me. You're playing the result. It didn't work out. He made a bad turnover. I didn't like the change. I didn't like the change. All you're telling me is by loading up Tavares with Marner and Matthews

is you're trying to score the next goal. For sure, you are. Think defense first. You're out of your mind. You're losing. Listen, I will say, I wrote an article today, sportsnet.ca, and I made the case you're making right now, which is generally the Leafs have a hard time thinking that,

okay, when they're chasing the game, there's still time. So to that point, I agree. I agree with loading up your good players when you're behind, trying to win, whatever. But I think too often the Leafs are like, they got 15 minutes left in the game. They're like, we got to throw everything at this problem where sometimes some patience would help.

Max Domi, they're down 3-1, 10 minutes left. To me, patience. He tries to tip one out of the zone, and instead of stopping, he keeps going. It's not the time yet to get desperate. So I agree with the idea that some patience is okay. I don't think putting good players on the ice goes. But he does that a lot of periods in the season where he'll load up the top line for the last minute of the game it's kind of like one of his things you know

you're getting arrested it's okay last minute of the game no he does it he does it last minute of the period you're talking about yeah he does it a lot yes he does it a lot and it was just to me that's a fine time to do it tovar the goal sunk the whole game it did but It took the energy right out. Yeah. And you had it with Bertuzzi's goal. And again, for me, anyways, that situation would have been take the momentum off the Bertuzzi goal into the dressing room to regroup on a period you weren't really thrilled with to begin with. I guess I think you're in big, big trouble. If you think Tavares can't score you offense, and now you can't play him because you're worried about

his defense, all of a sudden you're off going. Just in that situation. Just in that scenario where you're asking him now to play the left wing and he ends up being in the opposite corner acting like a centerman. You better hope he likes the left wing.

You don't see him back at center as a second line guy when this is all said and done last year they get o'reilly and he plays left wing to start playoffs right is that you know or towards or after the trade deadline anyway you want to stay on uh sheldon keith and and talk about uh as long as we also get to hand it him getting tossed yeah yeah sure all right what do you so sam do you know sam's in trouble on the internet sam's always in trouble i know but his his thing on leaf's talk what'd you say well i just said that he's giving me nick nurse vibes

just with how much yeah keith is just how much he's always on the refs and i i think the rest last night were not particularly great, but it just feels like no matter how they are, you pan to the bench and he's just screaming at them. And we've mentioned this before on the show, it's what good does it do to do it every single night? And it just, it feels, you know, there's a perception amongst Leaf fans

that the refs are out to get the Leafs. And I don't know if this is a perception among all fan bases. Maybe it's a thing, but they're 29th in the league and penalties drawn this year. And every year. And every year.

And people think there's an anti-Leaf bias of some sort. That is definitely out there. That perception or that actual thing that perception for sure and i actually you know the paris the paris one people are getting bent out of shape about i actually can kind of i i i'm with that one a bit like in terms of him hating the leafs like i'll hear that couldn't i will not hear like do you really think that the refs have a huge thing together they're like we're gonna screw the leafs like

do they have meetings like i i just i don't know how people actually and i'm a leaf fan i don't want to dump on my leaf fan brethren but it drives me crazy there's no way it's a thing it's like it's a product of the way they've played forever what is the thing though is general generally speaking as a, as an official's team, they know who the jerks or the smart asses are. They've got a list of who they'd rather talk to or deal with and who treats them with respect and who doesn't. And I would imagine Sheldon's, you know,

somewhere, you know, on on on the side of can we get this guy just to shut up once coach is gonna keep his mouth shut it's such a boy who cried wolf thing because like if you yell at them all the time they're just like we don't know if you're actually upset or if this is just another thing i do think it's hilarious that garrett rank shipped him like that's hilarious that Garrett Rank shipped him. It's hilarious that he didn't give him a penalty. He just told him to go home.

The officials got a bit of a reputation for doing that as well. Yeah. But it's just, I thought, you never see that. That never happens in a hockey game. It happens all the time in baseball.

It's one of my favorite things in the sport. I got two sides to this i can play both sides as as far as the official goes just the game's over there's a couple minutes left just suck it up sheldon's not gonna fight anyone yeah you're let him rant go on just turn your back and drop the puck like what do you need to and actually actually, Sheldon was extremely calm at the time he got ejected. I understand that he had not been calm. It was the 10 minutes prior to that

that probably sent him over the edge. Right. So that's my first thought. Yeah. My second one is also, Sheldon, just give it a rest. The game's over, Sheldon. It's 5-2.

Yes, it was a horrible call. It was a phantom call but the game is over yeah okay and that's not the reason why you lost no let's listen to sheldon on clip two here on getting tossed listen up take us through what that do you really answer no No. Not going there. Not going there. Literally wouldn't even do it, eh? Won't engage the conversation?

That sucks. There is, for every coach, there is a method to the madness on when and how to do it. Yeah. Okay? You think Sheldon's got a method? No. He didn't have one last night.

I agree. He was just off the cuff. It served no purpose. You got to build something up. So at the most critical point, either the regular season or in the playoffs, you can play a few of those cards last night was a waste a complete waste of getting thrown out and that's that's the part where sheldon's got us still needs to figure it out is that there's a time and place where you need the next call so you're going to say certain things either on the bench

or through the media. And that's, again, intertwined with your general manager and your president. And last night just served no purpose to being thrown out when the score is 5-2 and the game is over. I know in baseball there's like strategic ejections where the managers are like, I'm going to show my team, I'm going to go to the wall for them on this one.

It doesn't really happen in hockey. And you see the clip of Willie kind of being like. Willie was like, hey. Hey. Chill out. We don't need this right now. So, yeah, that wasn't the case last night. I agree that there didn't seem to be a plan.

He is an emotional guy. But, like, you just won seven in a row. Yeah. It's not, like, if you've lost seven in a row, and then, again, you've got all this pent-up frustration, and you need to send a message to either your team or the other team or the officials or something. Does it send a message that you care,

that you, you know, you genuinely just care about every two points one seven in a row you've played your best hockey in the last two weeks yeah what like no no that's not the time there's other ways to show that that's not in that instance he's one of those guys and i can tell you from working with him that even when you win a bunch it's not take your foot off the gas because we're having success time he wants to keep slamming it to the floor and you can say what you will about that it hasn't well judging by willie's uh reaction uh you better be careful with that that that stuff tires out players man they don't need to hear that all the time i'm with you and like i forget what game it was in the streak but they

screamed that's on you at the ref because they called like a penalty and they're up in the streak but they scream that's on you at the ref because they called like a penalty and they're up in the game it's like man just yeah like we all watch a lot of hockey not every coach is doing this every game and it feels like it's every game with keith that's actually funny the coaches who have won a lot in the nhl you don't see them do it much at all john cooper hardly ever john cooper yeah joel quenville you know it was like that i know even like paul maurice had that big epic rant in toronto that kind of turned his players around that wasn't even at the refs was that his players that's what made it meaningful is it was eighth players but also it was uncommon to see maurice red face and losing

his mind right so it has value so maybe he'll get there okay uh we don't need to the marner penalty was a goofy miss by the officials and it was it looked to me like his stick was there i don't know it doesn't even doesn't really matter i'm i'm not it was a bad call it's a bad call but the stick was near the leg guys go down it's a fast game, but it's a bad call. You get why he's mad. Big deal. For sure. All right. The lefties.

The lefties. I thought it was a major problem. I thought it was a major problem last night. And then factor in that Lilligroom was starting to look good, and now you've lost him. And right back to kind of that feeling of Brody. Dude, Brody, brutal. On the right side.

Like when he went back on pucks, he turned three over below their goal line in the first period where he just, if he were a right shot, he could have just put it up the wall and he kind of gets jammed and tries to make backhand plays or whatever. And it just, it's a problem. And I know we've said they need a right hand shot

and i i know that's part of the plan but it can't be is it nick steele who they really like but who happens to be a left shot as well like it can't be a left shot it can't be noah hannifin no it has to be right it has to be a right shot it just you're already going to have mccabe at the very least playing his offside you're already have to play lilligran because you just don't have right shots so that is something to watch as they move towards the deadline that it has to be at least one right hand shot once you get out of the coming off a west coast trip and running out of gas in the second and the third period there was the part of the game last night where you watch the Vegas Golden Knights blue line and you go, that's a playoff team. That blue line put on a clinic last night.

And then as much as you want to get excited about the Leafs the last two weeks, you watch them looking behind them going oh oh that's a breakaway oh i wonder if he scores like that stuff doesn't happen when vegas is on right yeah like i mean they're not looking behind themselves the petrangelo last night was a stud beyond belief best player in the rink. Like a clinic that guy put on, on how to play defense and how to compete for a Stanley Cup. No, you're going to say

that they just hung seven on him or whatever they did. However. Just beat the crap out of him. They did. Less than a week ago. But I think this was a, you know,

Vegas did get embarrassed at home and they had, you know, done their scouting and all that against the leafs and i think they came in with a little bit more of a snarl and an intention to defend and i watched a lot of video i almost treated today like a like a video coach and the amount of times that the least had almost opportunities that there's layers of golden knights in front of the net getting a poke getting stick, slowing down the hands on a shot. They just couldn't get any clean look.

The play Shea Theodore made on Marner when he was shorthanded and he had a step on him, he just had the stick, got the body position when he likes to do that tap back pass. He just got the stick out there, poked it off his stick. Shea Theodore, I think he had three assists last night. He was all over the place too. It's good decor, no question. Nicholas Haig, here's a guy that they pick up in the second round.

He's 6'7". Is he that big? 6'7". That's so tall. I think he scored like 30 goals in junior. Really? Like this guy can actually score too. And yet he's not asked to be like a power play type of guy.

Right. But like this is a Stanley Cup contending blue line. Well, it better be because their forward group's not very good. No. They played with structure and discipline last night without two of their best players. Yeah, without two of their best. I mean, without the two guys, they're not very good.

With the two guys, they barely have enough offense. But like their decor is so good that to me anytime they always have a chance the leafs last night had five grade a scoring opportunities period they vote total oh total total felt like they were in the first five minutes of that game yeah and they're only uh only three other times this year if they had fewer than that austin didn't get hardly any looks he had like nine attempts in one shot like they were all over in his range anytime he and it reminded me of playoffs when the leaf scored two seven straight games where the guys got to good spots matthew's too like remember he got to the slot on the power play

on a break and he takes a pass from marner there's always a stick there and you know that's something they're gonna have to overcome is figuring out how to play against very good defenses teams that have better defense than uh vegas in terms of uh goals against totals boston florida and the rangers oh great all three of them play any of those guys definitely one of them although detroit might pass it's going to be interesting here guys because because outside of, I think, 10 of, I don't know where you go. Like, are you going to be okay with Edmondson coming? Labushkin. Nick Jensen's name I hear from Washington, right-handed shot. He's got years on his deal.

That's a name I'm starting to hear. Is that going to be enough? I don't know't know like can you do something out of the box like i know we kind of shot down borgen and adam larson yesterday but like can you pay a little more and get someone who actually really works in that spot because you're right the list is not as david savards and you know a lot of those type of butchers all in or all out there is no in between I can't for the life of me let last night shake my belief but boy

it was hard to watch that not be like oh maybe they're playing bad teams no no no they're actually good like it was a tough performance to watch I'll say this Thursday night need to bounce back, dropping against the Coyotes. Put you right back on track, Sammy. Yes.

Okay, let's take a quick break. When we return, Steve Valliquette, analyst for the New York Rangers on MSG. He'll help us tee up that game. Yeah, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves as the Leafs will face Arizona tomorrow night, but they also have the New York Rangers Saturday night,

which means ding, ding, ding, ding. We just like Valley, all right? Yeah. What's that? So we just like Valley. Yeah, we like Valley. This is the time Valley could do, so we're like, let's just make it work.

So there we go. And perhaps a heavyweight title match Saturday night as well. Rempe Reeve. We'll ask Valley that as well. When we return on Real Kipper and Born. The best Blue Jays show out there, period. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. We just love our next guest to the point where we'll just like, okay, when's he available? When can we get him? Right? Work around his schedule. And it's not even like, it's not even now we go to Steve Allicat for just goaltending stuff. We want

anything that we can get out of the guy. So that's why we're... Nice stuff. Is it a canali? What's going on? Actually, this is a Canadian company. This is Copley. Oh, very nice. Known well up here.

But we don't... We didn't bring you know what? We didn't bring you on for fashion, bud. Yeah, bring Henrik on for that. So before we get into some goaltending, which is right up your alley, I'm going with the heavyweight tilt tonight between Columbus and the Rangers and the Rempe phenomenon. Is that what's going on? I'd love to hear your angle of his past week.

And is there anything in your career that you can compare this to a teammate or, you know, something from afar? Like, the story has been incredible in the last week, Valley. Sorry, the lights just went out on me here. I'm in an old office at the MSG Networks, but as long as you guys can still see me, we're good, pal. We're good.

Swinging it back on. But here's what I remember. Colton Orr, when I was with Orsi, we had, geez, we had Yager, we had Shanahan, Chris Drury, Scott Gomez, we had Strakas. We had a lot of guys that needed room out there to perform. And I remember Orsi on the bench before games just yelling at the other team, saying, if you guys even sneeze on any of these guys, I'm coming after you.

And they were getting room. And Orsi at one point, I don't know if you guys have ever heard this, probably haven't, there was a rumor going around the NHL that he implanted a metal plate in his fist in the offseason, and that's why he was knocking everybody out. So into that season, he had beaten up a few guys. I remember one in particular was Todd Fedorek. His orbital bone broke. We were set to play against the Islanders on the weekend,

and we had heard from their group that they wanted an x-ray to prove that Colt Knorr didn't have a steel plate in his hand. And they weren't going to let him play unless we could prove it. So Orsi has to send an x-ray to Gary Bettman and to Garth Snow to prove that he doesn't have a metal plate. Yeah, yeah. So we're in the locker room together. We're good buddies. And I'm like, Orsi, you got to send it with the middle finger. So we just send the x-ray to the commissioner.

And he, oh, it was the the best and he signs it to me it goes to valley when a myth becomes a legend and this was something that was taking on a life of its own and i remember everybody coming to the games not to see the goals but to see what colt nor was going to do next i'm seeing this for a second time with rempe and look guys he's even grown since he's been here he's been here five games he was listed at six seven now he's six eight and and look guys he's even grown since he's been here he's been here five games he was listed at six seven now he's six eight and a half like he's just knocking everybody out but it's been a little bit reckless and I'm talking to Nick Fatiu on the way over here he gives me a call I'm just about to get on the train and we're talking about how to lock up an elbow and Nicky's one of my all-time favorites. He was my coach in the minor leagues.

And I see him often. I speak to him often. And we're just talking about picking your spots and maybe not letting everybody know that you're going to fight the next guy. And if Olivier wants to fight tonight, do you let him know and warm up or do you let him think about it a little bit? And I'll tell you what guys,

just to wrap this up, it's, it's hard for me too, because I lost another friend two weeks ago, Scott Page. He was the first captain of the Mississauga Ice Dogs. And Steve Montador, those two guys were my best men at my wedding. So I'm looking at my pictures in my office of my two best men that are no longer with us. CTE was a factor in both of their deaths.

And I have a hard time seeing a young 21-year-old go in there and just go guns a-blazing without protecting himself too. And part of me hopes he doesn't play tonight, to be honest. And he was pretty wobbly on Sunday after getting hit with a couple from Olivier. Valley, very well said. And the difference between my generation and his right now is that that awareness so let me ask you something uh who in that dressing room can pull him on the side and and talk to him and and and get him to understand the risks and you can't keep this pace and you need to work on

your game your skating your forechecking, your energy. Who is that? Is that Trouba? Is that someone in the front office? Is it Nicky Fatio, who we all love? Yeah, exactly. Look, I'm watching. Just coincidentally, I'm watching Ice Guardians last night. My parents are visiting from Nova Scotia.

My dad likes the old school stuff. But look, Eric Goddard's in that, who's had some issues post-retirement with stuff. And he's a really good friend of mine, lived in my house in Bridgeport. Colton Orr, a very good friend of mine. Brian McGratton, I was a roommate with for two years. I've always been around the enforcers, Kipper, because we're the only two guys that can get embarrassed, the goaltender and the enforcer. And oftentimes in a locker room room especially the backup goalie is very close with the enforcers because there's there's a there's a piece there that you share a bond now is it jonathan quick that talks to him you know because there's a guy that's been around you know and you

want to and it's for sure it's jacob true but he's the lieutenant on this team and this team all of a sudden overnight got tough you know like this is, this is a group that can play Florida now. And you don't want to waste it in the regular season. You have to save a piece for what's going to be coming in the playoff playoffs. So Valley, how do you, how do you feel about fighting now in the way, obviously it's backed off considerably from when you played, but given how closely you've been affected by it, but also as an analyst of the game and recognizing the value that it can bring to a team

when you have someone who suddenly creates room for your team like that, you know, when you watch this, it must be a conflicting feeling. It is big time. I have a hard time with it right now. I saw Steve Monador, guys, I spent a week with him in his basement.

And this was a flight from Milford, Connecticut to Chicago. I could hear it in his voice. I lived it. We were best friends since we were teenagers. Greatest person, best teammate. He'd fight for you guys in a second. Scott Page, I remember him in junior. We played together for the Sudbury Wolves.

He's my best friend and his face looked like a roadmap and we would celebrate it yeah and i feel so stupid for it now but you know that's what we grew up with now there's a piece of me that yes it's still a big part of the game the intimidation factor it's there you need it now can we do it smartly meaning just as we're talking about here you know rempe you don't have to fight olivier again tonight you could take a night off you're not going to fight 82 times next season so i have a hard time with it man i really do i i don't even know what to say look uh chris nowitzki who's at the bu uh institute where brains are sent when somebody passes away.

He was my first phone call the morning I found out two weeks ago. It's the second time I've had to call him in five years for one of my best friends. You know, he's like, Steve, not again. You know, and I'm like, yeah, Chris. Yeah, it's heavy. They really get his brain in less than 24 hours. They'll be looked at and we'll find out in six months from BU. Well, Valley, we certainly appreciate your candid thoughts on this topic.

And it's one that we could probably do for an hour or two on its own. But there's more to our conversation in this Leaf edition, including Samsonov having, you know, a decent run since coming back all-star break and kind of reestablishing himself and going into last night i think a nine and two record but and here's the but um the leafs now are in a situation where joseph wall's back the thought is maybe he gets in on the weekend but then you've got the three-headed monster with martin jones so just give us your overall thoughts on a three-headed monster in general or how it pertains to the toronto maple leafs yeah a three-headed monster in general or how it pertains to the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Yeah, the three-headed monster never works. I've been in it before. There's two nets in practice. One guy isn't getting work. Here's the thing. I watched the game last night, and I didn't like goal number one, which was a breakaway. And you might say, well, it was a breakaway.

Yeah, but here's the problem. I don't know if Samsonov's game is a great fit for Toronto because Toronto does give up a lot of breakaways, 28th in the NHL and breakaways against, okay. Samsonov, only one goaltender has a worse safe percentage in the NHL on breakaways. So it's not a good fit. You're playing goal for a team that gives up a lot of breakaways and you see bad. And you see the first goal, and you have to watch it through, I guess, a goalie lens a little bit. But typically you step out, you challenge, you stride back one, two. You've got some glide so you can finish with your save above the post.

And all he does is come out and get really wide and open, and that puck goes through him. So it's just not a good goal from that perspective. But, look, goal number three was the backbreaker, and it's a a one-timer and this is something that you would know from scouting vegas that's what they look for as soon as the puck gets below the goal line with vegas they always have their f3 looking for a one-timer from the slot they don't jam the net they're not going to crash the net and create chaos they're looking for that guy moving and carlson's a lefty and what if you look at it again from the goalie perspective,

Samsonov's job when the puck goes to the corner, it is to scan the middle and find out who is a threat there. And you would know that Vegas is looking for it. So that should be something that's at the top of your mind. When the puck goes to the corner, guys, and there's a battle, and it's either nobody's puck or nobody's gotten to it yet, that's always your window to take a look. Check the front. Check the front. What do I have? Oh, lefty. Lefty. Okay, one-timer.

And now when the pass comes across, I can track it to a lefty. That should be a pretty routine save. But he allows the puck to get ahead of him, and it's a five-hole shot that he's trying to charge because he didn't do the work before the shot playing goal. It's a lot like a defenseman. The harder you work before retrieving a puck out of a corner for a defenseman,

or the harder I work as a goalie to locate the next threat, not the guy in the corner. That's got the puck. The easier my save is, or the easier as a defenseman would make a first pass. I just don't think he's doing the work before the shot. got the puck the easier my save is or the easier as a defenseman would make a first pass i just don't think he's doing the work before the shot how much of difficulty um for a goaltender in toronto is it just like i guess how much is on the goalie and how much is on the defense because i

look at goaltenders who have success and they tend to play behind pretty good decors we've had carter hutton on saying that when he played for the Blues, it was so much easier than when he played for the Sabres based on the quality of the defenses. Like this Leafs decor is not elite. How much harder do they make it on the goaltenders? Yeah, Borny, listen, you guys know I listen to you guys, and I know that you're aware that the Leafs were a very good defending team two years ago, three years ago.

Now they've lost it, but not lost it to a degree where it's really problematic. Breakaways, as I said, 28th. Rebounds, 22nd. And two goals last night were off rebounds. Screens, 22nd. And actually, that's one of the biggest weaknesses in Samsonov's game as well as off screens. There was a screen deflection goal last night. And that's so easy to dismiss.

You can say, oh, well, you know, it was screened and deflected. Yeah, but you still don't see what would make him successful, which is shift over on your feet, get big, get behind it, build a wall rather than reaching. Look how small I am here. Ben Lawler would say this all the time. Your arms separated from your body this goes in this goes in it could hit you in the middle of the chest and go in it's nothing gotta have you've got to have actually the width of a puck uh off your elbows imagine that i'm in my goalie stance and i can hold a puck off my elbow and hip on both sides that's that's the distance three inches but he's out here and it's it makes him small and it makes him leaky look samson i've

had his difficulty i don't think if it's no i don't think you guys should run with him look man i'm a leaf fan i'm on the show because i want if the rangers don't win i want the leads to win we could have a round one match up here this could very legitimately be leaf strangers it'd be awesome we could do a daily show boys boys. Listen, we'll have you on, I promise. I love watching you guys when I'm on. Thanks, pal. Yeah, you're very Doug McClain. Let me ask you something.

In your career, how many times did you look out from your crease and see six left-handed shots on your blue line? And is it that big of a deal once puck drops it's still noticeable to you with the action moving do you actually sit there and go yeah i wish this blade would have been on the other side nowhere i noticed a kipper was guys boxing out because they can't get under on the right side so a righty righty defenseman in front of me when the puck is walking across the top he gets to go under you and push you like this whereas the lefty finds a hard time getting around and it gives him a hard

it gives me like a layered screen when it should be an easy lane interesting by the way that's the screens look at the screens number what did i say 20 second right yeah 20 second and screens allowed i bet you if you looked at where those screens are coming from, it's from the goaltender's right side. I mean, awesome. I know we have to get going quick, but I do want to ask you about the Rangers goaltending. You know, the defensive numbers in New York look really good. I think they're the sixth best team in terms of goals against in the league.

How much credit do the goalies deserve versus their defense score? Yeah, so they've been giving up a lot of shots. Five straight games with 40 or more shots against. But it's been a lot of low-calorie fluff. Like a lot of long shots. And it's so funny because that's when Shusterkin plays his best. Yeah. Philadelphia on the weekend, they had 30 low-danger shots.

And he's just out there. Every time he gets a great A, it just looks routine. He's won his last six games. Over the last month, he's 10 out there. Every time he gets a great A, it just looks routine. He's won his last six games. Over the last month, he's 10 goals better than expected. That's best in the league. The guy's back. He looks amazing right now. His last legit, like the only time he didn't look good was the stadium series game

where it was a little leaky, but maybe some glare. I don't know. That's what I heard. Valley, you telling me this story about Colton Oren, that steel plate and his glove story. I'm so mad at myself that I didn't think of it. Didn't think of it myself.

Oh, yeah. Orzzy loves it. He loves every time I bring it up, too. He texts me right away. So hopefully he'll pick this up or I'll send it over to him. That's an all-time story. I cannot believe I haven't heard that. Oh, he's the best.

And I got the x-ray to prove it. I'll maybe post that sometime. That was hilarious. You's the best. And I got the x-ray to prove it. I'll maybe post that sometime. Buddy, you're the best. You're the best on our show. Thanks for doing this. Hey, anytime, fellas. Take care. Steve Allicat, whatever.

He's so good. Is he off the air? No. I don't want him to hear that. He did, for sure. He's so good. Between the personal notes, the goaltending stuff, the Colton Orr story, that's a Hall of Fame.

The boxing out on the left and the right-handed shot. Yeah, the boxing out, I didn't even think of that. It's stuff that you, you know, you go to the net and you just roll off of guys and you know which side you're going to roll off of. But you don't, I mean, for him to articulate it on our show, I just, he's awesome. HOF interview.

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They're lemon blueberry scone. That was one of the greatest segues from steel plates and hockey gloves to hot cross buns. You'll ever get. I used to play that song on the recorder. That's unbelievable stuff.

All right. Our thanks to Steve Allicat, analyst for the New York Rangers, and one of our favorites here on Real Kipper and Born. We're just getting started here. We go national next. What do we got? Cody Hodgson. Oh, my winger.

My Thursday morning winger. Eight years. He's up next.